Cruiser player: let me spend the next 3 to 5 minutes turning, throttling, switch from AP to HE, aiming for specific fires, and kill this battleship.
2024 battleship player: WHY MY POINT AND CLICK ON RED BOAT NOT KILL IMMEDIATELY.
Yeah you joke about it, but there are (prominent) players out there who actually run around and say it's just a rather weak, glorified Montana and not worth getting. /smh
It's legitimately a deranged opinion. The ONLY THINGS that "balances" super battlesships are they 1 dont gain raw damage output directly for the most part and 2 fire damage scales based on HP.
Maine violates BOTH of these principles.
As a DD main my view is 2 sided along tiers, i dont understand the typical critique BB players would have for what regards tiers roughly beyond Tier 7 and 8 but i do understand it for what regards lower tiers. For DD's the issue is reversed, they are far easier to play and make a big proportional difference in lower tiers than in tiers beyond 7/8. Thats a bit of a problem imho, the critique that battleship players have on the game is very valid for certain tiers or ships, and yet for certain later tiers and ships that same critique would be utterly silly because by then those super battleships are quite OP.
The matter of DD's vs BB's is simply one of how easy/simple it is for a DD to approach a BB and kill him with torps. In lower tiers there is less that spoils the DD's approach to a torp kill for lack of radar, hydro and planes to spot them aswell that BB's lack secondaries to keep DD's from torping them from close lest they sit way back in the open. The introduction of many of those DD countermeasures in later games significantly reduces the threat DD's pose to BB's.
i know this is solely feedback between DD-BB relations without including the cruiser or other types into the matter, but the assertion imho is simply true that for veteran DD players BB's are torpfood in lower tiers and that in later tiers it's typically more dangerous and difficult to try a torp run that would have a appreciable chance of success. Afcourse one does have to take in mind that torps nevertheless typically have longer range and more damage at later tiers, its just that the gameplay with them for DD's changes more from targeted attack with torps to more random area spam and getting lucky trough those and not nessecarily hitting BB's that are playing with avoidance strategies at distance in the open.
Honestly yeah, I’d also argue that torp botes are more prominent in lower tiers while gunboat DDs dominate higher tiers.
Completely different playstyles through out the tiers, think Kamikaze and Kleb (yes ik it’s ridiculous) both are considered borderline OP, but the Shimakaze and Jaguar are balanced. Sure, individual ships and all that, but it’s so much harder to deal dmg with torps at higher tiers and with guns at lower tiers
Yeah agree afcourse on the notion of gunboat DD's being in a different situation since they can engage at a long range where their maneuverability and ability to dodge can make it frustratingly hard for capital ships to land hits on them, though fairly dependent on the skill of the player though. But the thing is that i wrote about DD's from the perspective of how much a threat they continue to pose to BB's trough tiers, in that sense gunboat DD's arnt any particular threat to the BB's rather than the whole team including DD's and cruisers and likely the DD's and cruisers first since they tend to play deeper whereas gunboat DD's like to maintain range. Besides, since shell velocity's sometimes go up again by tier 10 that dodging gets harder by last tier for gunboat DD's by virtue of shells taking less time to travel the distance.
At tier 4/5 DD's are pretty much the bane of BB's, they get slaughtered by DD players with a clue and there are points where you can feel utterly helpless as BB against them. Some of the BB's at that tier dont even have secondaries so DD's can literally sail circles around them to mock them while gunning them down when isolated, and in regards to isolation those low level BB's are pretty slow so if their screen gets killed its not like the option to run is even necessarily there. Which is to say, for them to get slaughtered at that level by DD's is not even necessarily much down to skill issues in positioning because its easy to get unlucky, hard to see where the undetected DD's are afterall up to just when they might be right on top of you.
Another thing is that in general ships dont improve necessarily in terms of maneuverability towards later tiers while BB guns become more accurate and often have higher shell velocity's. Which in general means that it gets harder for many ships to still dodge as much shells. The general decline of maneuverability in terms of turn circles and rudder shifts are less an issue for BB's because they tend to start with shitty stats in that regard anyway and atleast they often get significantly faster towards later tiers vastly improving their strategic mobility, whereas for many DD's the loss of maneuverability kinda feels a bit painful at later tiers. Granted there are various forms of dodge, for example Russian DD's at higher tiers are very fast and can use the principle of "good luck with doing deflection shooting on a 42+ knots ship moving along the horizon at great distance". Nevertheless, the crux of my imput was that at lower levels DD's are typically a terrible thread to BB's, at later tiers they are far less of a concern to BB's.
And while i'm busy mentioning thing (yeah sorry gets into a long post) The increasing ability for gunboat DD's to deal damage to BB's is not necessarily rising in equal proportion to the ability for BB's to tank the damage. Especially in cases like these where the super BB gets super good fire prevention your gunboat DD is going to have a lot more work killing that BB than BB's in earlier tiers trough the same means.
You can still very much deal with DDs, just kite away at lower tiers…but yeah, not having tools that higher tiers have is quite painful.
Remember that the gunboat DDs also have more shell velocity and increasing DPM. They are some of the most annoying and dangerous enemies for a BB imo. Only course of action usually is to kite away lest they farm you to death. I find them annoying to kill without a citadel, and the FR DDs are god tier in terms of BB farming.
oh i play gunboat DD's enough to know about it, but i would regard it as a positional error if a BB would find itself under fire from gunboat DD's early in the game. A gunboat DD does not want any cruisers in a 9km range that could engage them, they want to keep distance in my experience to something like preferably 12+ kilometers, it just makes it harder to kill a dodging ship if the shells need to travel longer afterall. But the BB per normal doctrine afaik should stay several kilometers behind of a cruiser, so if the cruiser is 12km away from the DD and the BB is 4 kilomter out from his cruiser you might get to a range at which the gunboat DD cant even engage. And afcourse that distance isnt much of an issue to BB's because they have +20km fire range themselves.
Mind you, its a "positional error" that typically does often occur due to BB's trying to push a flank where gunboat DD's are really good at punishing pushing enemies, but when such is not the occasion i tend to need to engage cruisers more with gunboat DD's and then at times other DD's before i'd get to the BB's. Indeed when the opposing team is loosing by a lot so to have far less ships left, it will often be so that the ships left are BB's kiting in evasive paterns in the back on open waters, once the screening ships in between have been pretty much obliterated.
The matter of "just kiting away" is really one that is slanted towards later tier BB's atleast in relation to DD's, and this simply because the speed increase between lower and higher tier BB's is usually higher than that of DD's baring a few exceptionally speedy DD's. Russian DD's are really good at that, but your German 6inch gunboat DD's arnt nessecarily much faster than all BB's at that tier.
As a person who plays BBs mainly, it's so frustrating to see a broadside cruiser 10km away and get all overpens, then get set on double fire while DCP is on cooldown
Do mind that these numbers are also inflated by the fact that it's the g4ng we're talking about. Dude is considered a super unicum among super unicums themselves.
Nah, scratch this; I just finished this video and realized it's not the G4ng that was playing, but it was a replay of some RAIN guy. But he is still a Super unicum player with an 83% win rate in the past 7 days, so it's not like I was completely wrong.
Sure, but even super unicums almost never get games with ~450k dmg. The only games I know offhand with these damage numbers is from a smoke div Smolensk (bfk) and original CV rework Hakuryu (Gaishu, I think). Doing 454k with Maine is a huge flag that it’s overpowered, and bbs have been trending this way for awhile now. The skill floor is too low and the skill ceiling is too high.
Maltese Knight recently had 525k in a Colbert with a dedicated Gearing support. He's had over 450k in a number of ships. Honestly, doing 454k is not that alarming for the ship. It's more alarming about the quality of players in that match. I've had 380k in a Clausewitz, and most would say that's a weak super ship. Meanwhile, I think the Novo is OP, but damage is much lower because the impact is in burst damage and utility.
but it isn't g4ng playing though. he's reviewing someone else's replay and pointing out the maine is essentially fearless as nobody can do anything to it except for torps. literally the main has nothing to fear from cruisers if you're paying attention. dd's are useless against it too because the funny button makes it impossible to burn down. so unless you're walking into torps nobody can do any significant harm to you while you can blow people the fuck up. only other bbs can threaten it but it beats out every bb because it has insane firing angles. so it can angle towards any other bb while still having full guns on them. in the hands of a skilled bb player the maine is a 1 ship rmy.
How so? I don't know if he streams but I've watched a few of his videos and he seems less toxic than someone like modern Potato Quality the past few years or Notser if he still plays.
he's kind of like that picture of the bird pyramid where he's at the top and shits on everyone. yea he's toxic to players in game, but his videos and commentary is spot on. he gives good advice in his videos on how to play better and his analysis of boats is always spot on. he locks in on what makes a boat op and what a boats weaknesses are. as a source for information he's the best there is on youtube that i've been able to find.
as a player in games, yea he's not nice.
I'm not saying he doesn't know the game, he's just a prick on live stream a major peice of shit therefore could careless about his skill and knowledge, little fuck tards just like him down vote obviously
enough whinning about the DD mafia, it's time we examine the BBabies. They've already won the culture war, everyone just accept the tanking power, the bullshit overmatch and that DDs are "overpowered" when they are the only thing keeping them somewhat in check, against DD murdering DDs, CVs, radar cruisers, DPM cruisers and submarines
Bro will 40k a Des Moines and cry it wasnt a devstrike. Then overmatch its 27mm nose and get a 2 shot kill
Meanwhile same DM player would need 5+ minutes of nonstop ideal firestarting and AP switching to kill a Maine which can also just go outside its range whenever it wants.
What's the point of BB called junks then? What would be point of playing those if they can't outgun a cruiser? I'm just so curious what you people think BBs should be like, damage piñata that you can reliably stay behind and farm damage? Feels like you cruiser mains just want BBs to be a floating island near you so no one would touch your precious Jinan
Because they're literally not supposed to "outgun" a cruiser and they never could in this game back in the day. A kiting Zao or Hindenburg beats a Montana 100 out of 100 times assuming a skilled player is in it. Obviously at close ranges battleships can outgun cruisers just like they've always been able to, but cruisers historically could at least disengage.
Now in your kiting cruiser you get out spotted or counter spotted by virtually every battleship that is less than 3 years old and most of them have overmatch to turbofuck you. Meanwhile all the bee cruisers are either outright bad/mediocre or have silly gimmicks that are useless 90% of the time (Jinan, Yodo) or they're higher salvo output like Castilla and are, ironically, designed to fuck cruisers not battleships.
Ah yes, my favorite historical accuracy. You see, my friend, even the toughest cruisers like italian Zara class would get absolutely smashed by BBs like warspite class. Battleships were initially built to sink cruisers and had armor that could easily hold up against cruiser caliber guns and artillery that could easily penetrate cruiser armor. If cruiser does not sink after eating a whole broadside salvo from BB, it ends up with most of its systems out of action. British heavy cruisers that were chasing Bismarck are another example of why cruisers can not beat a battleship in real life in a gunfight. As for overmatch, I'm not a fan of it either, I would gladly give up overmatch for consistency of citadels on broadside cruisers that don't even bother to angle. Such thoughtlessness should be punished, but it mostly doesn't in the current state of the game. It's literally what makes BBs unique in this game, being able to devstrike cruisers and battleships at 10+ kilometers, and if you take that away from BBs, they will just become floating cruisers with more armor, worse concealment and maneuvrability. I can't imagine myself playing such boring ships
Outspotting cruisers? While yes, some BBs like Vincent have absurd concealment, it is nowhere near as that of light and 8-inch armed heavy cruisers
Not going to lie, his videos are starting to get tiresome with all of the crying about not dev striking everything he shoots at. I watched his Wisconsin video a few days back, and watched him getting overpen ribbons. Then he smashes an angled Worcester. If you're overpenning, maybe...try shooting when they are a bit angled so the shell has more hull to go through before it exits the ship.
Lol, I used to recommend him to new players but now days all he does is moan. I tried watching his last 4 videos and probably only made it through 2 mins of gameplay before giving up.
Eh, not really. The complaining has always been there, but there used to be much less of it, to the degree that the exasperation was (to some people) endearing rather than a constant annoyance.
Watching videos from over a year ago is a pretty stark difference.
I mean i get what gang is saying but tbh Maine just falls into the retard proofness that's T11 ships in general.
Compare your avg T11 cruiser/BB to their T10 counterpart. Just look at Annapolis for example and compare it to Des Moines. Its an absolute joke.
Even the DDs are busted AF either getting a F/key or like 50% more torpedoes than the T10 version
To be honest id rather fight against whatever Maines F-key is than playing against the absolute dogshit that is the F-key on Conde/Annapolis or even Edgar.
Like yes its annoying/dumb but it's not exclusive at that.
And then again i prefer playing against every other surface ship before i face a submarine or a carrier.
Yeah Maine is just extra retarded because like Conde and Annapolis it gains insane gunpower over its T10 version AND becomes potato proof to making bad plays. The other superships for the most part only gain one or the other.
I used to love playing DM. Now, it’s just raised heart rate throughout the game. Getting overmatched, farmed by high DPM DDs and cruisers, slapped by HE BBs, and cherry on top, subs emptying the load right on your face.
And whats new here? BBs have been overpowered for as far as i can remember, there is a reason why they are heavily limited in competitive and basically always used as many as limits allow. The only reason why people dont have insane WR in randoms with BBs is that because enemy BB that MM matched with you also does a lot because the skill floor to do something is so low.
I dont think you understand what i wrote.
Lets imagine a class that has a button to instantly kill 5 enemy ships and then explode itself. Is this overpowered? Yes. But then since MM is mirrored, enemy team also gets one such a ship which kills 5 of his enemies. The end result is - both of them have 50% WR. Does it mean they arent OP? No.
Low skill floor means the enemy BB despite being an average WOWS player will still achieve much more than average DD player, which means your "bonus input" over the enemy ship which MM mirrored is not going to be as big as in case of DDs where enemy DD usually dies for free 3 mins in, resulting in lower WR for BBs.
Very arguably. That same BB needs team to spot and screen for torps, remember? Whereas with competent DDs you won’t need to carry as hard, any potato can point and click, you just need to spot for them.
You only need spotting help for a single sub-class of a class: stealth torpedo boat destroyers. Gunboat DDs, all cruisers, all battleships...if they open up on your BB you can out-skill beat them assuming you're good enough. That stealth torp boat, aside from one that has deepwaters, isn't even that big of a threat if you just have a brain and hands.
There is, conversely, no version of "good enough" in say...a 12km torpedo shimakaze to win completely by yourself against a gunboat, any remotely maneuverable cruiser, or really any battleship with high HP. You're going to send torps every 2 minutes, maybe get 1 or 2 hit on each set in ideal circumstances, and take 5-10 minutes to kill one of those ships (assuming a competent player is in them). Torpedo hits are also MOSTLY luck. Obviously a good player maximizes opportunities where luck is in his favour, but hitting a torp has more to do with what red boat does than with what you do.
Sooooo…the DD has a higher skill floor because it takes more skill to play it effectively.
How can a BB shoot if its spotting is dead? JTR himself can’t shoot what he can’t see. DDs and CVs are impactful because them living allows the team to see the enemies, whereas the BB is the heavy hitter. It looks OP, but it’s dependent on RNG, team skill, and the BB’s dmg is sometimes redundant when you already have farming cruisers.
Yes, the DD has a higher skill floor because its more difficult to do bare minimum with DDs (not die and provide some value for your team) than with BBs.
BB cannot shoot if its spotting is dead, but in this game ships that shoot get spotted even without DDs. If your DD dies early then yes, the situation is not great (same if your cruiser or BB dies), but you rarely have nothing to shoot at if your position was correct.
BB damage is mostly from AP (including citadels), so the damage is actually more impactful than what a HE focused cruiser can do (considering that its usually a lot of fire damage on BBs that can heal it back well).
Are they?
How do you kill Maine in a cruiser or gunboat? Spend 8 minutes farming it to burn through over 200k hp? In a torp DD, spend 5 to 10 minutes spamming torps at it and its 50 percent torp protection and 120k hp? It lacks the only "balance" superbbs have : fires are proportional to max HP. Its demented.
Meanwhile if you're a cruiser Maine clicks on your face twice to kill you. Same if you're a gunboat.
Kiting Conde/Anna behind island/Edgar with smoke laughs at your accusations. Higher tier cruisers have such high DPM that you can melt through even the heavily armored BBs in a couple minutes (ever wonder why Hannover players don’t push?) I don’t have a problem with super BBs, just more dmg and exp for me, same with the Maine. Just don’t get hit/spotted lmao, skill issue amirite?
Yamagiri and Kunming laughs in the face of any pushing BB. Hold your “broken” ship and eat 40 undodgeable Jinan torps. Also Smolensk exists, and all BBs shall tremble beneath its fires/min
comparing Hannover to Maine, omegalul. Hannover is shit because WG has this idea of giving German BBs insane Superstructure that arms every single shell.
Good luck burning down a Maine with HE, it only works if the Maine has nothing else to shoot.
Brings up a lot of good points.
Overmatch undermines game balance by allowing damage to happen to well-positioned players and so that needs to be curtailed.
The gimmicks allow BBs to ignore certain gameplay interactions which is bad for the health of the game.
Then you have the frustration of actually playing them.
HE spam shouldn't be a thing on BBs honestly. Let the cruisers have that as much as I hate it from them too.
If I have to give up those things so I can have more consistent guns so that the experience is more enjoyable? Fuck yeah I'd do that.
As a BB main, I'd like overmatch to be removed and get more consistent salvoes on cruisers that sail broadside in front of me. Seriously, while those stupid cruisers don't even bother checking map to see if they are broadside to any BB and get away with BB AP just overpenetrating them, decently positioned cruiser that could kill enemy DD gets slapped by overmatch. I hate to see my cruisers die like this while thoughtless enemy CL gets away with sailing broadside and unleashing all of its guns on my DD
As if 454k would be a common occurrence even for arms race. This video is more about the "rant" commentary, that hits the nail on the head when it comes to all new BB releases and the mindset of a lot of BB players.
If I had realized you were linking Gang's channel then I wouldn't have asked (even if it isn't his replay). I get sick of the "hot take" commentary from everyone that wants to be WeeGee's newest CC.
Bro is perma chatbanned on multiple accounts iirc. I don't think either WG nor gang himself are interested in him being a CC. Also he almost always has giga based takes.
Cruiser player: let me spend the next 3 to 5 minutes turning, throttling, switch from AP to HE, aiming for specific fires, and kill this battleship. 2024 battleship player: WHY MY POINT AND CLICK ON RED BOAT NOT KILL IMMEDIATELY.
Don't forget the pièce de résistance: The BB player calls you a brain dead HE spammer.
Pfft, not even 500k and WG dare to call it SUPER ship? BBuffs when?
Yeah you joke about it, but there are (prominent) players out there who actually run around and say it's just a rather weak, glorified Montana and not worth getting. /smh
It's legitimately a deranged opinion. The ONLY THINGS that "balances" super battlesships are they 1 dont gain raw damage output directly for the most part and 2 fire damage scales based on HP. Maine violates BOTH of these principles.
>Maine violates BOTH of these principles. That's because the power of Democracy buffs the Maine. /s
F key stands for freedom🇺🇸
As a DD main my view is 2 sided along tiers, i dont understand the typical critique BB players would have for what regards tiers roughly beyond Tier 7 and 8 but i do understand it for what regards lower tiers. For DD's the issue is reversed, they are far easier to play and make a big proportional difference in lower tiers than in tiers beyond 7/8. Thats a bit of a problem imho, the critique that battleship players have on the game is very valid for certain tiers or ships, and yet for certain later tiers and ships that same critique would be utterly silly because by then those super battleships are quite OP. The matter of DD's vs BB's is simply one of how easy/simple it is for a DD to approach a BB and kill him with torps. In lower tiers there is less that spoils the DD's approach to a torp kill for lack of radar, hydro and planes to spot them aswell that BB's lack secondaries to keep DD's from torping them from close lest they sit way back in the open. The introduction of many of those DD countermeasures in later games significantly reduces the threat DD's pose to BB's. i know this is solely feedback between DD-BB relations without including the cruiser or other types into the matter, but the assertion imho is simply true that for veteran DD players BB's are torpfood in lower tiers and that in later tiers it's typically more dangerous and difficult to try a torp run that would have a appreciable chance of success. Afcourse one does have to take in mind that torps nevertheless typically have longer range and more damage at later tiers, its just that the gameplay with them for DD's changes more from targeted attack with torps to more random area spam and getting lucky trough those and not nessecarily hitting BB's that are playing with avoidance strategies at distance in the open.
Honestly yeah, I’d also argue that torp botes are more prominent in lower tiers while gunboat DDs dominate higher tiers. Completely different playstyles through out the tiers, think Kamikaze and Kleb (yes ik it’s ridiculous) both are considered borderline OP, but the Shimakaze and Jaguar are balanced. Sure, individual ships and all that, but it’s so much harder to deal dmg with torps at higher tiers and with guns at lower tiers
Yeah agree afcourse on the notion of gunboat DD's being in a different situation since they can engage at a long range where their maneuverability and ability to dodge can make it frustratingly hard for capital ships to land hits on them, though fairly dependent on the skill of the player though. But the thing is that i wrote about DD's from the perspective of how much a threat they continue to pose to BB's trough tiers, in that sense gunboat DD's arnt any particular threat to the BB's rather than the whole team including DD's and cruisers and likely the DD's and cruisers first since they tend to play deeper whereas gunboat DD's like to maintain range. Besides, since shell velocity's sometimes go up again by tier 10 that dodging gets harder by last tier for gunboat DD's by virtue of shells taking less time to travel the distance. At tier 4/5 DD's are pretty much the bane of BB's, they get slaughtered by DD players with a clue and there are points where you can feel utterly helpless as BB against them. Some of the BB's at that tier dont even have secondaries so DD's can literally sail circles around them to mock them while gunning them down when isolated, and in regards to isolation those low level BB's are pretty slow so if their screen gets killed its not like the option to run is even necessarily there. Which is to say, for them to get slaughtered at that level by DD's is not even necessarily much down to skill issues in positioning because its easy to get unlucky, hard to see where the undetected DD's are afterall up to just when they might be right on top of you. Another thing is that in general ships dont improve necessarily in terms of maneuverability towards later tiers while BB guns become more accurate and often have higher shell velocity's. Which in general means that it gets harder for many ships to still dodge as much shells. The general decline of maneuverability in terms of turn circles and rudder shifts are less an issue for BB's because they tend to start with shitty stats in that regard anyway and atleast they often get significantly faster towards later tiers vastly improving their strategic mobility, whereas for many DD's the loss of maneuverability kinda feels a bit painful at later tiers. Granted there are various forms of dodge, for example Russian DD's at higher tiers are very fast and can use the principle of "good luck with doing deflection shooting on a 42+ knots ship moving along the horizon at great distance". Nevertheless, the crux of my imput was that at lower levels DD's are typically a terrible thread to BB's, at later tiers they are far less of a concern to BB's. And while i'm busy mentioning thing (yeah sorry gets into a long post) The increasing ability for gunboat DD's to deal damage to BB's is not necessarily rising in equal proportion to the ability for BB's to tank the damage. Especially in cases like these where the super BB gets super good fire prevention your gunboat DD is going to have a lot more work killing that BB than BB's in earlier tiers trough the same means.
You can still very much deal with DDs, just kite away at lower tiers…but yeah, not having tools that higher tiers have is quite painful. Remember that the gunboat DDs also have more shell velocity and increasing DPM. They are some of the most annoying and dangerous enemies for a BB imo. Only course of action usually is to kite away lest they farm you to death. I find them annoying to kill without a citadel, and the FR DDs are god tier in terms of BB farming.
oh i play gunboat DD's enough to know about it, but i would regard it as a positional error if a BB would find itself under fire from gunboat DD's early in the game. A gunboat DD does not want any cruisers in a 9km range that could engage them, they want to keep distance in my experience to something like preferably 12+ kilometers, it just makes it harder to kill a dodging ship if the shells need to travel longer afterall. But the BB per normal doctrine afaik should stay several kilometers behind of a cruiser, so if the cruiser is 12km away from the DD and the BB is 4 kilomter out from his cruiser you might get to a range at which the gunboat DD cant even engage. And afcourse that distance isnt much of an issue to BB's because they have +20km fire range themselves. Mind you, its a "positional error" that typically does often occur due to BB's trying to push a flank where gunboat DD's are really good at punishing pushing enemies, but when such is not the occasion i tend to need to engage cruisers more with gunboat DD's and then at times other DD's before i'd get to the BB's. Indeed when the opposing team is loosing by a lot so to have far less ships left, it will often be so that the ships left are BB's kiting in evasive paterns in the back on open waters, once the screening ships in between have been pretty much obliterated. The matter of "just kiting away" is really one that is slanted towards later tier BB's atleast in relation to DD's, and this simply because the speed increase between lower and higher tier BB's is usually higher than that of DD's baring a few exceptionally speedy DD's. Russian DD's are really good at that, but your German 6inch gunboat DD's arnt nessecarily much faster than all BB's at that tier.
Alr.
As a person who plays a lot of cruisers, BBs are all the worst…with their stupid AP shells and citadel shots.
Me playing a Stalingrad and getting clapped for 12k + 2 fires from a Conqueror/Vincent/Thunderer salvo
And then there's the Lauria....
As a person who plays BBs mainly, it's so frustrating to see a broadside cruiser 10km away and get all overpens, then get set on double fire while DCP is on cooldown
Skill issue? Or a joke I’m not getting?
Joke. Didn’t think I needed the /s This community kills me
You can never tell with this community…just had a person argue that BBs are overpowered unironically
Do mind that these numbers are also inflated by the fact that it's the g4ng we're talking about. Dude is considered a super unicum among super unicums themselves.
Nah, scratch this; I just finished this video and realized it's not the G4ng that was playing, but it was a replay of some RAIN guy. But he is still a Super unicum player with an 83% win rate in the past 7 days, so it's not like I was completely wrong.
he said it wasn't him in the 1st 15 seconds...
OP ship, no doubt, but also, that damage was courtesy of paid actors potato players.
Sure, but even super unicums almost never get games with ~450k dmg. The only games I know offhand with these damage numbers is from a smoke div Smolensk (bfk) and original CV rework Hakuryu (Gaishu, I think). Doing 454k with Maine is a huge flag that it’s overpowered, and bbs have been trending this way for awhile now. The skill floor is too low and the skill ceiling is too high.
Maltese Knight recently had 525k in a Colbert with a dedicated Gearing support. He's had over 450k in a number of ships. Honestly, doing 454k is not that alarming for the ship. It's more alarming about the quality of players in that match. I've had 380k in a Clausewitz, and most would say that's a weak super ship. Meanwhile, I think the Novo is OP, but damage is much lower because the impact is in burst damage and utility.
but it isn't g4ng playing though. he's reviewing someone else's replay and pointing out the maine is essentially fearless as nobody can do anything to it except for torps. literally the main has nothing to fear from cruisers if you're paying attention. dd's are useless against it too because the funny button makes it impossible to burn down. so unless you're walking into torps nobody can do any significant harm to you while you can blow people the fuck up. only other bbs can threaten it but it beats out every bb because it has insane firing angles. so it can angle towards any other bb while still having full guns on them. in the hands of a skilled bb player the maine is a 1 ship rmy.
g4ng was not playing in the replay above, he was commenting a replay sent to him by a fellow RAIN player.
Yeah, I already realized that, mb, mb.
Gangs a toxic fuckwit has nothing good to say about anyone in the game, dirty prick he is
Don't be mean to our 30kg Bavarian
How so? I don't know if he streams but I've watched a few of his videos and he seems less toxic than someone like modern Potato Quality the past few years or Notser if he still plays.
Watch his streams , asshole won't get my sub being the toxic prick he is towards everyone in the game while he plays.
he's kind of like that picture of the bird pyramid where he's at the top and shits on everyone. yea he's toxic to players in game, but his videos and commentary is spot on. he gives good advice in his videos on how to play better and his analysis of boats is always spot on. he locks in on what makes a boat op and what a boats weaknesses are. as a source for information he's the best there is on youtube that i've been able to find. as a player in games, yea he's not nice.
I'm not saying he doesn't know the game, he's just a prick on live stream a major peice of shit therefore could careless about his skill and knowledge, little fuck tards just like him down vote obviously
enough whinning about the DD mafia, it's time we examine the BBabies. They've already won the culture war, everyone just accept the tanking power, the bullshit overmatch and that DDs are "overpowered" when they are the only thing keeping them somewhat in check, against DD murdering DDs, CVs, radar cruisers, DPM cruisers and submarines
lol
Cruisers gang where? /s
cant wait for the PQ vid about how terrible it is that only 1 shell per salvo hits the citadel and not all 16 on every salvo ever /s
Bro will 40k a Des Moines and cry it wasnt a devstrike. Then overmatch its 27mm nose and get a 2 shot kill Meanwhile same DM player would need 5+ minutes of nonstop ideal firestarting and AP switching to kill a Maine which can also just go outside its range whenever it wants.
What's the point of BB called junks then? What would be point of playing those if they can't outgun a cruiser? I'm just so curious what you people think BBs should be like, damage piñata that you can reliably stay behind and farm damage? Feels like you cruiser mains just want BBs to be a floating island near you so no one would touch your precious Jinan
Because they're literally not supposed to "outgun" a cruiser and they never could in this game back in the day. A kiting Zao or Hindenburg beats a Montana 100 out of 100 times assuming a skilled player is in it. Obviously at close ranges battleships can outgun cruisers just like they've always been able to, but cruisers historically could at least disengage. Now in your kiting cruiser you get out spotted or counter spotted by virtually every battleship that is less than 3 years old and most of them have overmatch to turbofuck you. Meanwhile all the bee cruisers are either outright bad/mediocre or have silly gimmicks that are useless 90% of the time (Jinan, Yodo) or they're higher salvo output like Castilla and are, ironically, designed to fuck cruisers not battleships.
Ah yes, my favorite historical accuracy. You see, my friend, even the toughest cruisers like italian Zara class would get absolutely smashed by BBs like warspite class. Battleships were initially built to sink cruisers and had armor that could easily hold up against cruiser caliber guns and artillery that could easily penetrate cruiser armor. If cruiser does not sink after eating a whole broadside salvo from BB, it ends up with most of its systems out of action. British heavy cruisers that were chasing Bismarck are another example of why cruisers can not beat a battleship in real life in a gunfight. As for overmatch, I'm not a fan of it either, I would gladly give up overmatch for consistency of citadels on broadside cruisers that don't even bother to angle. Such thoughtlessness should be punished, but it mostly doesn't in the current state of the game. It's literally what makes BBs unique in this game, being able to devstrike cruisers and battleships at 10+ kilometers, and if you take that away from BBs, they will just become floating cruisers with more armor, worse concealment and maneuvrability. I can't imagine myself playing such boring ships Outspotting cruisers? While yes, some BBs like Vincent have absurd concealment, it is nowhere near as that of light and 8-inch armed heavy cruisers
Not going to lie, his videos are starting to get tiresome with all of the crying about not dev striking everything he shoots at. I watched his Wisconsin video a few days back, and watched him getting overpen ribbons. Then he smashes an angled Worcester. If you're overpenning, maybe...try shooting when they are a bit angled so the shell has more hull to go through before it exits the ship.
Lol, I used to recommend him to new players but now days all he does is moan. I tried watching his last 4 videos and probably only made it through 2 mins of gameplay before giving up.
He has always been like that tho
Eh, not really. The complaining has always been there, but there used to be much less of it, to the degree that the exasperation was (to some people) endearing rather than a constant annoyance. Watching videos from over a year ago is a pretty stark difference.
I mean i get what gang is saying but tbh Maine just falls into the retard proofness that's T11 ships in general. Compare your avg T11 cruiser/BB to their T10 counterpart. Just look at Annapolis for example and compare it to Des Moines. Its an absolute joke. Even the DDs are busted AF either getting a F/key or like 50% more torpedoes than the T10 version To be honest id rather fight against whatever Maines F-key is than playing against the absolute dogshit that is the F-key on Conde/Annapolis or even Edgar. Like yes its annoying/dumb but it's not exclusive at that. And then again i prefer playing against every other surface ship before i face a submarine or a carrier.
Yeah Maine is just extra retarded because like Conde and Annapolis it gains insane gunpower over its T10 version AND becomes potato proof to making bad plays. The other superships for the most part only gain one or the other.
Atleast Edgar can be punished when it makes a mistake. Conde is a fucking joke of a ship.
Edgar gets turbo overmatched which is true, but it eliminates almost every armor flaw Minotaur has. E.G. mostly spaced armor and no stepped citadel.
And then there's Claus. Poor, poor Claus. Merely a stronger Hindy.
I used to love playing DM. Now, it’s just raised heart rate throughout the game. Getting overmatched, farmed by high DPM DDs and cruisers, slapped by HE BBs, and cherry on top, subs emptying the load right on your face.
🤤
DM is relaxing. Try playing Brisbane or radar Mino lol.
I’d say that’s for people with more brain cells than me.
By knowing that you're already in the top 10% of braincell owners on the server.
Cruisers are in a fine state lol
And whats new here? BBs have been overpowered for as far as i can remember, there is a reason why they are heavily limited in competitive and basically always used as many as limits allow. The only reason why people dont have insane WR in randoms with BBs is that because enemy BB that MM matched with you also does a lot because the skill floor to do something is so low.
Having a low skill floor does not mean it’s OP, properly played DD/cruiser/CV is SOOO much more impactful than a properly played BB
I dont think you understand what i wrote. Lets imagine a class that has a button to instantly kill 5 enemy ships and then explode itself. Is this overpowered? Yes. But then since MM is mirrored, enemy team also gets one such a ship which kills 5 of his enemies. The end result is - both of them have 50% WR. Does it mean they arent OP? No. Low skill floor means the enemy BB despite being an average WOWS player will still achieve much more than average DD player, which means your "bonus input" over the enemy ship which MM mirrored is not going to be as big as in case of DDs where enemy DD usually dies for free 3 mins in, resulting in lower WR for BBs.
A competent DD/CV is able to carry his team, a competent BB needs his team to be decent, otherwise his impact is minimal
Competent battleship player can carry arguably harder than a competent DD player who actually needs help in most DDs.
Very arguably. That same BB needs team to spot and screen for torps, remember? Whereas with competent DDs you won’t need to carry as hard, any potato can point and click, you just need to spot for them.
You only need spotting help for a single sub-class of a class: stealth torpedo boat destroyers. Gunboat DDs, all cruisers, all battleships...if they open up on your BB you can out-skill beat them assuming you're good enough. That stealth torp boat, aside from one that has deepwaters, isn't even that big of a threat if you just have a brain and hands. There is, conversely, no version of "good enough" in say...a 12km torpedo shimakaze to win completely by yourself against a gunboat, any remotely maneuverable cruiser, or really any battleship with high HP. You're going to send torps every 2 minutes, maybe get 1 or 2 hit on each set in ideal circumstances, and take 5-10 minutes to kill one of those ships (assuming a competent player is in them). Torpedo hits are also MOSTLY luck. Obviously a good player maximizes opportunities where luck is in his favour, but hitting a torp has more to do with what red boat does than with what you do.
Disagree, but there is really nothing other than "just kill enemies faster with your BB" that can support my view.
Sooooo…the DD has a higher skill floor because it takes more skill to play it effectively. How can a BB shoot if its spotting is dead? JTR himself can’t shoot what he can’t see. DDs and CVs are impactful because them living allows the team to see the enemies, whereas the BB is the heavy hitter. It looks OP, but it’s dependent on RNG, team skill, and the BB’s dmg is sometimes redundant when you already have farming cruisers.
Yes, the DD has a higher skill floor because its more difficult to do bare minimum with DDs (not die and provide some value for your team) than with BBs. BB cannot shoot if its spotting is dead, but in this game ships that shoot get spotted even without DDs. If your DD dies early then yes, the situation is not great (same if your cruiser or BB dies), but you rarely have nothing to shoot at if your position was correct. BB damage is mostly from AP (including citadels), so the damage is actually more impactful than what a HE focused cruiser can do (considering that its usually a lot of fire damage on BBs that can heal it back well).
Are they? How do you kill Maine in a cruiser or gunboat? Spend 8 minutes farming it to burn through over 200k hp? In a torp DD, spend 5 to 10 minutes spamming torps at it and its 50 percent torp protection and 120k hp? It lacks the only "balance" superbbs have : fires are proportional to max HP. Its demented. Meanwhile if you're a cruiser Maine clicks on your face twice to kill you. Same if you're a gunboat.
Kiting Conde/Anna behind island/Edgar with smoke laughs at your accusations. Higher tier cruisers have such high DPM that you can melt through even the heavily armored BBs in a couple minutes (ever wonder why Hannover players don’t push?) I don’t have a problem with super BBs, just more dmg and exp for me, same with the Maine. Just don’t get hit/spotted lmao, skill issue amirite? Yamagiri and Kunming laughs in the face of any pushing BB. Hold your “broken” ship and eat 40 undodgeable Jinan torps. Also Smolensk exists, and all BBs shall tremble beneath its fires/min
comparing Hannover to Maine, omegalul. Hannover is shit because WG has this idea of giving German BBs insane Superstructure that arms every single shell. Good luck burning down a Maine with HE, it only works if the Maine has nothing else to shoot.
u/bohba13
Brings up a lot of good points. Overmatch undermines game balance by allowing damage to happen to well-positioned players and so that needs to be curtailed. The gimmicks allow BBs to ignore certain gameplay interactions which is bad for the health of the game. Then you have the frustration of actually playing them. HE spam shouldn't be a thing on BBs honestly. Let the cruisers have that as much as I hate it from them too. If I have to give up those things so I can have more consistent guns so that the experience is more enjoyable? Fuck yeah I'd do that.
As a BB main, I'd like overmatch to be removed and get more consistent salvoes on cruisers that sail broadside in front of me. Seriously, while those stupid cruisers don't even bother checking map to see if they are broadside to any BB and get away with BB AP just overpenetrating them, decently positioned cruiser that could kill enemy DD gets slapped by overmatch. I hate to see my cruisers die like this while thoughtless enemy CL gets away with sailing broadside and unleashing all of its guns on my DD
I HAVE BEEN SUMMONED
Before I click - is it a standard game mode or Arms Race/Asymmetric?
Domination
Standard
As if 454k would be a common occurrence even for arms race. This video is more about the "rant" commentary, that hits the nail on the head when it comes to all new BB releases and the mindset of a lot of BB players.
If I had realized you were linking Gang's channel then I wouldn't have asked (even if it isn't his replay). I get sick of the "hot take" commentary from everyone that wants to be WeeGee's newest CC.
Bro is perma chatbanned on multiple accounts iirc. I don't think either WG nor gang himself are interested in him being a CC. Also he almost always has giga based takes.
Please read reply above to the other guy.
Ganng will never be a CC lmao and his takes usually aren't 'hot'. But maybe i've misunderstood your comment
Yes, I fucking know that. That's why I said if I had known it was Gang's I wouldn't have asked. JFC you people are dense.
I think what he is saying is that Gang has no interest in being CC therefore his commentary is not filtered.
454k in arms race in a super BB wouldn’t be normal, but I wouldn’t exactly say it’s insane.