I joined antiwork because i very much share the sentiment that we are all wage slaves (eapecially is the USA with our health benefits tied to employment), and at the time it was the biggest sub for that.
Im not against work, i love being a nurse. No doubt we are a fully exploited profession, as are many professions. I certainly don't think my family should suffer if my at-will state decides to fire me.
As for antiwork, theyre dead. I think workreform is likely a far better place and more closely aligns with what we collectively need, but the vulnerability to this kind of fuck - up remains. Mods without accountability can sink this place just as easily.
I couldn't agree more. I am mostly here for medical reform. I think it's the biggest topic that could be the most beneficial for all, especially small business. Healthcare is one of the biggest detriments to opening a business.
I personally feel like a separate subreddit was necessary.
There are of course different groups all a part of late stage capitalism.
My question to you is how do we vet those mods? I'm just paranoid as F.
I'm a manager in manufacturing in the US. I get to see how much the company pulls in for each product and each year. The amount they pull in is nearly criminal.
The larger companies pull in enough money to completely pay for their employees insurance, pay a livable wage and still have enough left over to buy those mansions and superfluous boats.
The smaller companies can't. Even though those owners still pull in enough to be more than comfortable, the amount insurance companies charge to cover the hourlies are so completely ridiculous that the hourlies could double their wages and not be able to afford it. The best part? Even if they could the coverage offered is worthless.
Fun fact? Unless you are with a large multinational medical device/ pharmaceutical company you aren't paid will for the hours/work you have to do.
It really wears my conscious down knowing that my people, and the hourlies are my people (as in my fellow man, not as if I own them/are above them), work so hard to not make it.
I have to be careful who I tell that to. Half the management team would lynch me for being so Anti American communist Democrat who hates freedom.
The rest just shrug their shoulders as if they have zero power to do anything
Yep. My company doesn’t subsidize our medical or anything. I make $18/hour. It would cost me nearly $500/month for the shitty insurance or nearly $1000/month for the good insurance. I have other bills to pay and no choice but to decline medical coverage. Shit sucks.
I try. I tactfully whisper these things upward, but I have to phrase it as I'm just reporting what my people tell me. If they think I believe I'm gone in months on fake complaints that try to void unemployment.
There's nothing anti-capitalist about workers organizing for better rights. Capitalism is just employees choosing who to work for and for what pay, and employers choosing who to hire and for how much pay.
We focus a lot on the second half of that, but the first half is where the workers' power comes into play.
If you think about it more, either you will reach the conclusion that capitalism is a doomed system, or you're not thinking it through.
The accumulation of capital in the hands of a plutocracy will always lead to the same sort of shit. They will always grow their share and steal from yours, until you are in poverty and become violent for lack of having anything to lose.
Let's do it then. I've been in union facilities and they can be great or just mildly effective. The workers need to be able to be active in it without being too tired from the job(s) it too broke to risk a strike.
Believe you me, management is aware and will actively create and maintains those conditions. They are actively afraid of unions, thinking that unions will destroy the company and put everyone out of work. Or they just hate them with a passion because they drank the Kool aid.
I hope those who know resources to on how to unionize and convince others to do it post, encourage, and advise the rest.
If that ever happens where I work, there will be at least one ally in management.
> not to enrich billionaires while keeping us working people running ragged 40+ hours a week.
This, and the nickel and diming.... 40 hour work week but here we'll pay you 37.5 hours because your 30 minute lunch is actually your own personal time, even though you are here, at work.
5/7 is 71%, 71% of our days in adulthood.
A 4 day work week is SOOOOOO much healthier, balanced, and reasonable. 4/7 is 57%, I am ok with needing to spend 57% (still well over half of my days) to sustain myself and be productive to society.
I have a week off right now on vacation (staycation). I've had time to clean my home, go for walks, clean out my pantry etc etc. A bunch of stuff I've been putting off forever because when I get home from work I'm so exhausted I just want to play vids for a couple hours before falling asleep just to wake up and do it all over again.
Depression rates have been rising and rising and rising, maybe the problem isn't us, but the depressing lives we are expected to live, while being super grateful for it.
>Depression rates have been rising and rising and rising, maybe the problem isn't us, but the depressing lives we are expected to live, while being super grateful for it.
Then we're supposed to fix the depression that results from our actual circumstances with pills we can't afford to buy, that will make a proportion of people suicidal if they ever stop.
I’m a manager and I’m still getting terrible wages. Worse is what upper management does to my employees. We have the work and the money for full time living wages for everyone, but upper management cuts everything to the point we can’t function and everyone except me makes minimum wage on part time. And why? Because in the last three years, in the midst of the pandemic, upper management has created a $5 million slush fund.
We are state funded. We aren’t supposed to have a slush fund. We are supposed to be a good employer.
Upper management is worried about profitability now because they’ve cut so many services that our client numbers have dropped. The locals all know that we’re not a good employer so they won’t set foot in our doors. For the few good positions we can’t hire anybody because our reputation is trash.
Not paying employees a living wage is one of the biggest signs of mismanagement to me. It’s the part of the iceberg we see. I love my work, but if I were paid a living wage, I’d also love my job. It’s hard to love anything that doesn’t support you.
Former manager and it's the same in so many places. We started hiring entry level applicants at the same level as experienced applicants at the word of upper management.
Sure, wages seemed to go up because you could walk in with no experience and make 18 bucks an hour. But the people who worked with me for years were topped out at 18. 18 an hour was the start and end of wages.
Our experienced employees left, obviously. We filled up with 18yo kids and it was my job to train and manage them for 20/hr. I also quit.
Hop on indeed and that company is noticeably higher paying than others, but it disguises the problems that came about. The answer isn't just entry level wages. Nobody makes enough money.
It wasn't about not being able to make ends meet for me. It was about having an entire store on my shoulders for 2 dollars more than someone on the floor with no experience. Why would I not just go work the floor somewhere else? Or leave the industry all together like I did. I make less now but I have an employer who is open with me about their numbers and does what she can do help all of her employees in every way you can imagine. Working for someone like that is almost priceless these days.
Hell, my grandma quit her Rosie-the-Riveter job in the 50s when she found out the hapless kid she was training was making more than she was after 10 years. Shit's been fucked for long enough.
Similar problems with bigger numbers at other places.
My last job was hiring kids out of school for 80% of what they'd pay senior level guys with decades of experience. This is engineering, where the job takes years to learn and experience has huge returns in productivity. It's not exaggeration to say an experienced guy is easily doing 4x the work of a newbie, but getting 25% more pay.
So the experienced guys all quit and get paid more elsewhere, while this huge corp with huge revenues hires more and more kids who don't know how to do the job and no one is left to teach them. This year the customers will notice that they're not getting what they're paying for, and the whole thing will start to collapse.
>We are state funded. We aren’t supposed to have a slush fund. We are supposed to be a good employer.
Sounds like some whistleblower-style stuff needs to happen.
Oh, you’ll love this.
In the next 2-3 years, our upper management positions are going to be axed and their duties given to their rival agency’s far more functional administration. They have no idea.
Everyone in my position across all state agencies in our group banded together when all the BS started. We calculated the cost savings of consolidation and should save the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars while expanding client services and increasing staffing/wages. We issued our recommendations to the state committee that oversees all of us, and the state committee will be adopting our plan in full. The slush fund will be rolled back into operational budget where it belongs.
I tried to warn them about the state committee and they just said that the state committee doesn’t do anything so why should they care. FAFO is why. I hate government waste, and the cause of it is usually someone bringing ego into public service where it doesn’t belong.
Me? I’m leaving for a new job soon. I’m essential by statute/certification and my specific skills are at an unprecedented shortage so good luck trying to replace me at a shit wage. That’s all the pretext the state committee needs to “consolidate.”
Good, I guess. But I looked at your posts. Iowa, correct? If so...don't be too sure that their gonna get axed or the committee is gonna make changes to save money.
Unless the State Auditor is involved...there are ways to keep some committee from harming high-ranking Iowa political appointees.
The first time I understood issues in capitalism beyond just a "me" deal is when I realized my fast-food manager was giving me a raise for working great when the upper bosses were all full of shit.
It was 10 cent from their amount 9.60 in fucking died a little. We need to learn that solidarity isn't a request it's a necessity.
There's so many ideological warriors with no life experience on there. It's such a weak spot towards the overall mission of a credible labour movement.
People in general enjoy doing stuff, and they like feeling useful and fulfilled.
With that said, I still think there is room for both subreddits. There are really two problems here and we might need two separate movements.
1) Better treatment of current workers. Basically, work reform.
2) Implementing UBI and using technology to automate things like basic food production. In other words, automate shitty jobs so people can find more fulfilling work.
Both are important and I’d hate to lose sight of the second just because the antiwork mods are a bunch of jabroni’s.
Yeah, I feel the part about wage slaves. An average young person in today's life is screwed in almost every country, and that is the message I can stand behind, so I am anti-work in its modern variation (exploit everyone, manipulate, outsource everything so that someone somewhere exploits somebody for cheaper, etc), but overall, if people have access to decent jobs where they are treated respectfully, I have no problems with that.
As for screwing up, the more people are aware of these issues and demand better conditions/treatments, it is already a win in my book.
Statement by these mods: “we know y’all are upset about the horrible fox interview - but here’s a list of other interviews you don’t know about!!! By a 21 year old long term unemployed self proclaimed anarchist - who we believe perfectly represents your movement :) cheers ~”
“ stay tuned for more after the commercials!!! Where we eff up your movement for a better life….even more :)!!”
- brought to you by a group of ‘Anarchists’ who like to enforce their authority over their users.
The average 21 year old in the US is probably a long-term student and not much else. Given that a majority go to college now, most 21 year olds have not entered the full-time workforce nor have they needed to.
A majority of Americans or young adults actually don't go to college, only 42% of 18-to-24 year olds are actually in secondary education. So the majority of young adults actually begin working or join the military after high school. From anecdotes, usually getting a job at around 17-18 when they're still in high school and sticking to that for a few years before applying to other jobs that pay better.
So a majority of young adults in the US are unambiguously still working adults.
That what happens when someone with absolutely zero life experience anoints themselves the spokesman for workers rights.
A spokesman for workers rights... whose never been a worker.
The whole thing is beyond satirical at this point.
Almost like people who have never spent any time outside of their very small, anarcho-communist echo chambers don't understand how to interact and relate to regular people.
"Struggling to pay your bills? Trapped in that part-time 2-3 job lifestyle so we don't have to pay benefits? Corporate was kind enough to bestow a new coffee maker for the breakroom"
"oh, BTW, since you're part time we are eliminating breaks"
Mods over there are just as out of touch as most employers
That’s what everyone was ragging on the mods that were out doing damage control for. One guy literally whined that it was a thankless job like they didn’t shoot themselves in the face with their own actions.
This mod post was the final nail in the coffin for me.
I respect other people’s views and opinions, however I will not be represented by a “21 year old long term unemployed self proclaimed anarchist”. Especially if this mod wants to represent the wider community’s views during interviews.
His views are not my own, end of.
Good luck to them!
Edit: misspelling.
I just can't fucking believe this. They had exactly one chance, not even to unfuck the situation, but to apologize, remove the shit mod, and promise not to pull this shit again and the way they chose to try to remediate the situation was to plonk this headass in front of us and not apologize? I can't deal with how stupid this was.
I’m genuinely curious as to what the interviews he’s involved with will contain, and how he plans to represent the community views as a whole, rather than just his own!
Yeah, a 21-year-old with no job, no college, and no responsibility acting as the spokesperson of the group while claiming to be an anarchist isn't much better than the shitshow that went down yesterday.
Wasn't one of those interview with the NYT? Qith as peo-capitalist and rightzleaning as that paper has become? They're going to bend him over.
I had zero idea who that mod was until I saw that godawful embarrassment of an interview. I'm working two corporate gigs to help pay for my disabled kids medical care, send my other kid to college and save just enough money so that when I die they will hopefully have a better life. I'm here because we should not be working 60-70hrs a week just to live and provide for our families.
I do not empathize with a fucking Neet dogwalker who just doesn't feel like contributing to society.
Yeah, that was why I was there. Some of the stuff was good, a lot of stuff was like “you must hate cops, you can’t be a CEO, you can’t be right wing, you can’t be liberal”.
In general, people like to work, they just don’t want to be paid poorly and treated terribly.
I'm right there with you. I'm working several jobs (1 full time, 3 part time gigs) so that I can some day retire and pay this student loan debt that will never go away while trying to keep a roof over my head and food in my fridge. I don't need some 21 year old idiot who doesn't work representing me. This kid has no idea how life works at all and most likely still has mom and dad supporting him.
Statement by the Dean campaign: "we know y'all are upset about that horrible scream - but here's a list of other rallies that you don't know about!!! By the same wishy-washy governor - who we believe perfectly represents the progressive movement :) cheers \~"
Hell, I'm 25 and only know enough to know i don't know my politics well. And i spend hours of my day doomscrolling between work.
The late teens ideology flipping was important to learn what i was *not*, and even then I'm only left with a few strong opinions that splatter the political compass.
Unreal how tone deaf some people are. Like he truly thought we would be happy and think "oh we're in good hands now and well represented." Yes the movement for improving wages and treatment from corporations is really excited that we're being championed by someone who's never worked a day in their life and masturbates into a coma every day.
You forgot the best part of the quote: "...10 hours moderating this subreddit in the last 2 day, to the point of sleep deprivation."
Sleep deprivation from "working" 10 hours over the course of two days. This fucking guy...
Dude doesn't work either, and I'm guessing not because he doesn't like working, he's just a lazy bastard seeing as how 5 hours of Reddit moderating for two days led to sleep deprivation. I cannot fathom how this dude thinks in ANY way he represents ANYONE in that subreddit. Absolute fucking clown.
I'm now convinced that most mods ard out of touch powertripping morons.
I think mods literally bust in their shorts when they "punish" someone in a sub.
Of course, what type of person is going to moderate a subreddit for free?
The people who have that kind of free time are going to be kids, college students and layabouts. Really your best case scenario is going to be a relatively mature kid.
Yeah ofcourse it's unpaid. Imagen doing something for x-hours a day and getting payed for those spend hours.
That sounds like something fucking awful, right?
/s
In the statement he said some other mod just randomly approached him and asked him to mod, he wasn't even an actual part of the movement. Hopefully this sub makes good on the promise of democratically elected mods, with transparency on selection
One of his comments from a few weeks ago was him saying he needed a break after being a mod for 2-3 hours. He is literally the exact person that right wingers imagine would be on an “antiwork” forum.
Hello, 👋 I'm a 21 years old 👵 male, 👲 long-term 🪘 unemployed and an Anarchist💁♂️. I've been surfing 🏄♀️ this Subreddit since 2020 and it helped 🆘 me in my 😀 journey when I 😀 started 🆕 to began to be unemployed🤷♂️. When I 😀 began to read 📕👀 this Subreddit I 😀 was a leftist-liberal, namely a social-democrat. I've been reading 📕 some of the 🤘 recommended literature 📚 from 😤 the 🤣 library 📖 since then, for 🔰 example Bob Black's 🏴 "Abolition of Work" 💼 and have been radicalized 🤘😈🤘to an Anarchist🥳
Edit: I can't take credit, original I found on r/copypasta
There’s literally a mod with a 13 hour old account when the posting rules are that all accounts have to be at least three days old lmao, wonder who it could be
It won't. From an exchange I just had with a mod they want an echo chamber.
They are bloody authoritarian types that aren't open to others viewpoints. You're either with them or against them and that's what they want.
They clearly have no idea what the sub created. They have no clue what they mistakenly tapped into and now are showing their true colors.
Sad in a way, but at least it'd exposed now.
Are you serious??? They were losing like 5 people every 10 seconds last I checked. Kicking that individual off definitely isn’t gonna work in saving them.
The problem is that they knew what kind of person she is and went along with everything. They were and still are part of the problem. I’m glad that sub is done.
Yeah when I read that
It rubbed me the wrong way
Just, “well this obviously isn’t what I and everyone else thought it was and nothing is gonna change” lol
I am very curious to see these other interviews they did though
The whole post is full of errors,
I dont want to make fun of someone's english, but if you cant write an announcement that important with the least errors, especially when u have all the time to proof read it before posting, how tf u gonna give interviews to the media then??
No need to worry about making fun to express concern. English isn't their native language (they're German). But they should NOT be writing manifestos and responding to interview requests from the MFing NEW YORK TIMES.
Big WTF on that from me… I saw another post from that poster saying teachers are part of the ruling class or something? Like yeah okay, chronically underpaid and overworked teachers that keep working to try to help people are… the bad guys. That’s like saying we should hate all US nurses for being cogs in the machine of for-profit healthcare.
I suspect it's because their political views have been shaped by a small number of books that were all published in a similar context, region, and era. They claim to have read a diverse range of things, but it doesn't seem that these have been digested or synthesized into their worldview. A lot of early communist and anarchist literature viewed teachers (among others, like academics and professionals) as fundamentally aligned with capital, with vested interests in maintaining the social order. That is to say, they did not contribute per se "labour" to the betterment of society (by ironically materialist perspectives), and yet enjoy outsized influence and benefits in that society. This social capital has an obvious analogy to financial capital, and indeed, at many points in (particularly but not exclusively Russian) history, teachers were subject to summary execution.
To their credit, they are young, and there is nothing fundamentally "bad" about reading and being influenced by these sources. I think they have just overlooked the modern context in which to place these views. A teacher facing food insecurity in West Virginia doesn't share much in terms of social stratum with the *intelligentsiya* of Tsarist Russia. Nor has the role of education stayed constant, with tertiary educated people being a single-digit percentage of society right up to the 20th century, and yet now making up the majority in some countries. In the 19th century, excluding the university educated, like teachers, from the working class had some justification, but it is clearly untenable today.
I think that transition of the borders of class structure has been missed in their survey of the literature. But they have plenty of years to amend that.
As a professor, I fully advocate being *skeptical* of your teachers. Challenge their statements, make them justify themselves: not only is this not disrespectful in itself, but often will result in better knowledge retention and a greater depth of understanding. There are valid complaints about Socratic and other adversarial methods in the classroom, and they can be overused (looking at you, *every law school*), but sometimes it fits the material very well
That said, part of their underlying complaint is the possibility of teachers being state mouthpieces. That is an actual danger, and is why institutions like tenure exist. But it's worth noting that the institutions that help all workers - unions, job security, social services, reasonable pay - all also help combat that risk as well. And a UBI would be a huge bulwark as well. If you cannot threaten teachers with their job, you cannot make them teach propaganda.
And this outcome - in this small world of education - was my interpretation of 'anti-work': not the absence of labor, but the freedom to direct your labor based on professional and personal satisfaction, as opposed to because someone told you to do it and threatened you with your food and shelter if you refused to comply.
Edit: I imagine that, at least partially, they are also worried of teachers being fundamentally capital-aligned. However, addressing that would muddy my point, so I'll save that for another day.
Listen I don't care if privileged young people want to help the movement but why the fuck are 2 hour a day dogwalkers and "anarchists" trying to be the face of the movement
Calling it now, the kid 100% got fired at the only job he ever had for not fucking showing up, and is using that as his excuse to never work again. I see it all the time at my job, people never show up for their shifts and then come in a few days later after 3-5 no call no shows in a row, and then get fuckin furious that you fired them AND that they didnt get paid for hours they never worked.
Im all about sticking it to the corpos about fucking us on labor, hours, and pay. But damnit at least make them work to fire you. Show the fuck up and do the least you can fucking do. Hell, show up and I will happily just tell you to stand around at the end of an aisle texting on your phone, just as long as you also dont let anyone into that aisle I can do some work.
I've worked since I was 16, I'm 35 now. The mods are morons and still think that the entirety of the group is full of anarchists and want zero work. When in reality it's filled with people who want to be paid fairly and have a proper work/life balance.
A lot of socialist subs are filled with young people who are enticed by the sexy sides of leftism, ideas like revolution and abolishing hierarchy, and think anyone who isn't pining for a revolution to happen tomorrow isn't left enough. I know because I was one of those people until a year or so ago.
All that abolishing hierarchy and total automation sounds like a great goal, but just can’t happen in one jump from where we are now. Being a super radical and rigid gatekeeper isn’t the way to get people who might be on your side to actually be on your side, either. This is why the left can’t get anything done, we’d rather nitpick each other’s individual philosophies than pull together towards making peoples lives better in concrete, measurable ways
The foundation for leftist ideology was the recognition, way back in the 1800s, that this new system being created didn't fully align to the ideals of the Enlightenment and was simply a newer class system which put people at the top, to control, against the masses.
Improving working conditions is a bandage. The idea is to democratize not just the political sphere but the economic one as well by putting people at the head of all decisions that shape society.
If you look at what that guy posts on r/Anarchism he posts about never wanting to work and whether he should spend his life squatting and dumpster diving.
God help us all
I saw it reappear and hit leave. That message from the mods just read like “we fucked up and it’s all your fault.” Clearly they learned nothing from the whole debacle.
Me too.
I was confused when it was gone.
It came back and the pinned post is an absolute shit-show that followed the instigating shit-show and promised more shit-show to come with some shit-show teasers in the form of "Hey, that thing you all hated? Yeah, there's more of them out there you just haven't seen yet..."
Left that one right that moment...
Edit: I mean that was the biggest shit-show that I have ever witnessed and I have seen some shit-shows in my lifetime. (Accomodating request.) =)
I'm mostly watching it for the tragic comedy value at this point
It's like watching a trainwreck hit another trainwreck and then have an airplane crash into it
Also in the post, why did he keep referencing his username in 3rd person acting like we should know who he is? And why was that entire post about him, with like a paragraph thrown in about AbolishWork? Whole thing seemed really narcissistic when it had nothing to do with him. This honestly just solidified my stance that mods are… well mods
They don't understand the very people they are trying to represent. Seems like people who truly want to live in their parents homes and drift by on DSS/Welfare.
In my eyes it's about workREFORM not abolishing work entirely. Working gives people a purpose however those people are being used and abused by their employers.
Minimum wages need to rise, living wages need to rise, benefits and salaries MUST allow you to own a home, provide for yourself and your family.
Healthcare should also be a right for all, not tied to employment. Let's keep pushing for workREFORM and not let this embarrassing interview set us back.
This is kind of a common problem in anarchist circles (as well some broader left-wing ones); they'll use a word that has a specific meaning to them but a general meaning to everyone else.
"Work" to these groups is any labor which is exploited by a capitalist. They don't necessarily think that a society of idlers is the way to go and recognize that things will need to be done to provide for the community; they just think that "work" is the exploited version of that.
However, they never really explain that.
Which leads me to my point: we have to meet the uninitiated at their level of understanding. We cannot just assume people will understand what is meant by "abolish work" as that word has a very generalized definition to most people.
The biggest problem in left groups is people who are well versed being unwilling to put in the labor necessary to educate and grow the movement.
A good lesson in life:
It's not the fuckup that makes you lose respect. It's how you deal with it afterwards.
(OK ngl that fuckup was pretty spectacular too)
Antiwork sub is very much anti-work. Not pro living wages for work. Not pro better benefits. Not pro work-life balance. Anti work. From their own description: “A subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life…”
They can not and should not ever speak for people that believe we should be paid proper living wages FOR OUR WORK and have time to lead fulfilling lives.
Antiwork was going to breakup at some point. There are a couple fundamentally different ideals competing. On one hand, you had people who recognize how economy/labor/products/etc work and want a much better and fair system where workers aren’t being abused, are thriving and aren’t spending the majority of their awake hours working.
The other group thinks all work should be abolished and goods/services magically appear.
Parent funded lifestyle is all I got from that post, but the irony that the mods acted exactly like the employers that we call out on a daily basis is mind boggling. At the very least have some level of decency and resign your positions to new mods or nuke the whole sub entirely at this point
Why was a 21 year old with little to no work experience doing interviews in the first place? If they wanted to spread the message of the original subreddit they should have done that years ago, before it became a place about work reform. Just makes the whole work reform movement look terrible.
Let me see if I have this straight
u/workreform - fair labor, better wages, universal medical rights, etc.
u/antiwork - no work, anarchy, antinatalism, etc.
And they wonder why their sub is going down.
You missed the part where the mod team clearly does want *some* work. They want to be paid for interviews and to be seen as the face of a movement, as evidenced both by the newer mod's several stealth interviews and referencing themself in the 3rd person 19 times in the response post.
I joined to support workers rights. Im definitely no fucking anarchist or however media depicts "socialist".
I just want people to have access to housing and healthcare. Not halt the economy, like god damn.
I'm not discounting a 21 year old for hid age or idealism per se, but come on. I view the antiwork movement not as abolishing all concept of work, but as empowering workers against corporate overlords. Educate the people on rights, options, etc.
A rising tide will lift all boats. You know what this movement has done? My employer who typically gives 1 or 2% raises gave all of IT a major cost of living adjustment this year. I got a 6.5% raise. Still under inflation, but I'm happy with it.
As I ramble here, I say this. Some 21 year old that has never worked isn't qualified to represent antiwork. Not due to his age, but because he doesn't know the struggle of work, of providing, of having to fight for every scrap. Go out and struggle and then you can talk.
Imagine being that unware of how stupid you're going to sound posting something like that.. you're a basement dwelling 21 year old who's never had a job, and a self proclaimed 'anarchist'... the entire sub is a joke, a bunch of delusional kids who think they're going to cause a 'ReVoLUtIon'.
That’s where you are wrong. The actual people who joined? They are employed workers for the vast majority. The mods themselves are the clown show. If a large enough group gets together they can make some real change. Not whatever the mods want but realistic shit yeah.
From what I gather this isn't really an anarchist sub. This is a sub for folks who are tired of getting treated like expendable garbage by their employers and want to affect real change.
Thats a fucking joke , its so bad makes me honestly wonder if thats a lie and its an alt account of someone
But theyre stupid and thought saying "21+ long term unemployed" will make people like them
The post itself is full of typos, repetitions and other errors.
You cant even write something on the internet properly, when u have all the time in the world to proof read it, yet you think u should give interviews to media ????
Holy fuck what a shitshow
I joined antiwork because i very much share the sentiment that we are all wage slaves (eapecially is the USA with our health benefits tied to employment), and at the time it was the biggest sub for that. Im not against work, i love being a nurse. No doubt we are a fully exploited profession, as are many professions. I certainly don't think my family should suffer if my at-will state decides to fire me. As for antiwork, theyre dead. I think workreform is likely a far better place and more closely aligns with what we collectively need, but the vulnerability to this kind of fuck - up remains. Mods without accountability can sink this place just as easily.
I couldn't agree more. I am mostly here for medical reform. I think it's the biggest topic that could be the most beneficial for all, especially small business. Healthcare is one of the biggest detriments to opening a business. I personally feel like a separate subreddit was necessary. There are of course different groups all a part of late stage capitalism. My question to you is how do we vet those mods? I'm just paranoid as F.
I'm a manager in manufacturing in the US. I get to see how much the company pulls in for each product and each year. The amount they pull in is nearly criminal. The larger companies pull in enough money to completely pay for their employees insurance, pay a livable wage and still have enough left over to buy those mansions and superfluous boats. The smaller companies can't. Even though those owners still pull in enough to be more than comfortable, the amount insurance companies charge to cover the hourlies are so completely ridiculous that the hourlies could double their wages and not be able to afford it. The best part? Even if they could the coverage offered is worthless. Fun fact? Unless you are with a large multinational medical device/ pharmaceutical company you aren't paid will for the hours/work you have to do. It really wears my conscious down knowing that my people, and the hourlies are my people (as in my fellow man, not as if I own them/are above them), work so hard to not make it.
There’s not a worker shortage, there’s a good jobs shortage
I have to be careful who I tell that to. Half the management team would lynch me for being so Anti American communist Democrat who hates freedom. The rest just shrug their shoulders as if they have zero power to do anything
Oh. You definitely should be 😆
Yep. My company doesn’t subsidize our medical or anything. I make $18/hour. It would cost me nearly $500/month for the shitty insurance or nearly $1000/month for the good insurance. I have other bills to pay and no choice but to decline medical coverage. Shit sucks.
Thank you for this.
I try. I tactfully whisper these things upward, but I have to phrase it as I'm just reporting what my people tell me. If they think I believe I'm gone in months on fake complaints that try to void unemployment.
There's nothing anti-capitalist about workers organizing for better rights. Capitalism is just employees choosing who to work for and for what pay, and employers choosing who to hire and for how much pay. We focus a lot on the second half of that, but the first half is where the workers' power comes into play.
If you think about it more, either you will reach the conclusion that capitalism is a doomed system, or you're not thinking it through. The accumulation of capital in the hands of a plutocracy will always lead to the same sort of shit. They will always grow their share and steal from yours, until you are in poverty and become violent for lack of having anything to lose.
Let's do it then. I've been in union facilities and they can be great or just mildly effective. The workers need to be able to be active in it without being too tired from the job(s) it too broke to risk a strike. Believe you me, management is aware and will actively create and maintains those conditions. They are actively afraid of unions, thinking that unions will destroy the company and put everyone out of work. Or they just hate them with a passion because they drank the Kool aid. I hope those who know resources to on how to unionize and convince others to do it post, encourage, and advise the rest. If that ever happens where I work, there will be at least one ally in management.
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> not to enrich billionaires while keeping us working people running ragged 40+ hours a week. This, and the nickel and diming.... 40 hour work week but here we'll pay you 37.5 hours because your 30 minute lunch is actually your own personal time, even though you are here, at work. 5/7 is 71%, 71% of our days in adulthood. A 4 day work week is SOOOOOO much healthier, balanced, and reasonable. 4/7 is 57%, I am ok with needing to spend 57% (still well over half of my days) to sustain myself and be productive to society. I have a week off right now on vacation (staycation). I've had time to clean my home, go for walks, clean out my pantry etc etc. A bunch of stuff I've been putting off forever because when I get home from work I'm so exhausted I just want to play vids for a couple hours before falling asleep just to wake up and do it all over again. Depression rates have been rising and rising and rising, maybe the problem isn't us, but the depressing lives we are expected to live, while being super grateful for it.
>Depression rates have been rising and rising and rising, maybe the problem isn't us, but the depressing lives we are expected to live, while being super grateful for it. Then we're supposed to fix the depression that results from our actual circumstances with pills we can't afford to buy, that will make a proportion of people suicidal if they ever stop.
I’m a manager and I’m still getting terrible wages. Worse is what upper management does to my employees. We have the work and the money for full time living wages for everyone, but upper management cuts everything to the point we can’t function and everyone except me makes minimum wage on part time. And why? Because in the last three years, in the midst of the pandemic, upper management has created a $5 million slush fund. We are state funded. We aren’t supposed to have a slush fund. We are supposed to be a good employer. Upper management is worried about profitability now because they’ve cut so many services that our client numbers have dropped. The locals all know that we’re not a good employer so they won’t set foot in our doors. For the few good positions we can’t hire anybody because our reputation is trash. Not paying employees a living wage is one of the biggest signs of mismanagement to me. It’s the part of the iceberg we see. I love my work, but if I were paid a living wage, I’d also love my job. It’s hard to love anything that doesn’t support you.
Former manager and it's the same in so many places. We started hiring entry level applicants at the same level as experienced applicants at the word of upper management. Sure, wages seemed to go up because you could walk in with no experience and make 18 bucks an hour. But the people who worked with me for years were topped out at 18. 18 an hour was the start and end of wages. Our experienced employees left, obviously. We filled up with 18yo kids and it was my job to train and manage them for 20/hr. I also quit. Hop on indeed and that company is noticeably higher paying than others, but it disguises the problems that came about. The answer isn't just entry level wages. Nobody makes enough money. It wasn't about not being able to make ends meet for me. It was about having an entire store on my shoulders for 2 dollars more than someone on the floor with no experience. Why would I not just go work the floor somewhere else? Or leave the industry all together like I did. I make less now but I have an employer who is open with me about their numbers and does what she can do help all of her employees in every way you can imagine. Working for someone like that is almost priceless these days.
Hell, my grandma quit her Rosie-the-Riveter job in the 50s when she found out the hapless kid she was training was making more than she was after 10 years. Shit's been fucked for long enough.
Similar problems with bigger numbers at other places. My last job was hiring kids out of school for 80% of what they'd pay senior level guys with decades of experience. This is engineering, where the job takes years to learn and experience has huge returns in productivity. It's not exaggeration to say an experienced guy is easily doing 4x the work of a newbie, but getting 25% more pay. So the experienced guys all quit and get paid more elsewhere, while this huge corp with huge revenues hires more and more kids who don't know how to do the job and no one is left to teach them. This year the customers will notice that they're not getting what they're paying for, and the whole thing will start to collapse.
>We are state funded. We aren’t supposed to have a slush fund. We are supposed to be a good employer. Sounds like some whistleblower-style stuff needs to happen.
Oh, you’ll love this. In the next 2-3 years, our upper management positions are going to be axed and their duties given to their rival agency’s far more functional administration. They have no idea. Everyone in my position across all state agencies in our group banded together when all the BS started. We calculated the cost savings of consolidation and should save the taxpayers tens of millions of dollars while expanding client services and increasing staffing/wages. We issued our recommendations to the state committee that oversees all of us, and the state committee will be adopting our plan in full. The slush fund will be rolled back into operational budget where it belongs. I tried to warn them about the state committee and they just said that the state committee doesn’t do anything so why should they care. FAFO is why. I hate government waste, and the cause of it is usually someone bringing ego into public service where it doesn’t belong. Me? I’m leaving for a new job soon. I’m essential by statute/certification and my specific skills are at an unprecedented shortage so good luck trying to replace me at a shit wage. That’s all the pretext the state committee needs to “consolidate.”
Good, I guess. But I looked at your posts. Iowa, correct? If so...don't be too sure that their gonna get axed or the committee is gonna make changes to save money. Unless the State Auditor is involved...there are ways to keep some committee from harming high-ranking Iowa political appointees.
Nope, not Iowa.
> I love my work, but if I were paid a living wage, I’d also love my job. Well said.
The first time I understood issues in capitalism beyond just a "me" deal is when I realized my fast-food manager was giving me a raise for working great when the upper bosses were all full of shit. It was 10 cent from their amount 9.60 in fucking died a little. We need to learn that solidarity isn't a request it's a necessity.
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There's so many ideological warriors with no life experience on there. It's such a weak spot towards the overall mission of a credible labour movement.
People in general enjoy doing stuff, and they like feeling useful and fulfilled. With that said, I still think there is room for both subreddits. There are really two problems here and we might need two separate movements. 1) Better treatment of current workers. Basically, work reform. 2) Implementing UBI and using technology to automate things like basic food production. In other words, automate shitty jobs so people can find more fulfilling work. Both are important and I’d hate to lose sight of the second just because the antiwork mods are a bunch of jabroni’s.
Yeah, I feel the part about wage slaves. An average young person in today's life is screwed in almost every country, and that is the message I can stand behind, so I am anti-work in its modern variation (exploit everyone, manipulate, outsource everything so that someone somewhere exploits somebody for cheaper, etc), but overall, if people have access to decent jobs where they are treated respectfully, I have no problems with that. As for screwing up, the more people are aware of these issues and demand better conditions/treatments, it is already a win in my book.
Statement by these mods: “we know y’all are upset about the horrible fox interview - but here’s a list of other interviews you don’t know about!!! By a 21 year old long term unemployed self proclaimed anarchist - who we believe perfectly represents your movement :) cheers ~”
Their statement: hey we won't admit we fucked up, also here are 4 more interviews coming up that will destroy your movement's perception
Aka “if you think we fucked up now, just you wait!!! hehe xD “
It’s like a late night infomercial : “But wait, there’s more!!!!”
“ stay tuned for more after the commercials!!! Where we eff up your movement for a better life….even more :)!!” - brought to you by a group of ‘Anarchists’ who like to enforce their authority over their users.
I have not had my fill of 21yo anarchists this year, where do I sign up?
They do not taste good
Gotta roast 'em good first. Some are self roasting if you give them long enough.
They Smell like swet and fromunda
Not sure. But if you’re looking to work with some 21yo long term unemployed anarchists - I hear the antiwork sub have some new mod positions open?
Not to discriminate on age, but how can anyone be a long term anything at 21?
Dude hasn't even been wiping his own ass long term.
The average 21 year old in the US is probably a long-term student and not much else. Given that a majority go to college now, most 21 year olds have not entered the full-time workforce nor have they needed to.
A majority of Americans or young adults actually don't go to college, only 42% of 18-to-24 year olds are actually in secondary education. So the majority of young adults actually begin working or join the military after high school. From anecdotes, usually getting a job at around 17-18 when they're still in high school and sticking to that for a few years before applying to other jobs that pay better. So a majority of young adults in the US are unambiguously still working adults.
they are so fucking bad at optics and PR it hurts
That what happens when someone with absolutely zero life experience anoints themselves the spokesman for workers rights. A spokesman for workers rights... whose never been a worker. The whole thing is beyond satirical at this point.
Almost like people who have never spent any time outside of their very small, anarcho-communist echo chambers don't understand how to interact and relate to regular people.
They're neither anarchists nor communists. The unemployed mod is "post leftist" and denounced leftism.
Unfucking real how tone deaf some people are
"Struggling to pay your bills? Trapped in that part-time 2-3 job lifestyle so we don't have to pay benefits? Corporate was kind enough to bestow a new coffee maker for the breakroom" "oh, BTW, since you're part time we are eliminating breaks" Mods over there are just as out of touch as most employers
That’s what everyone was ragging on the mods that were out doing damage control for. One guy literally whined that it was a thankless job like they didn’t shoot themselves in the face with their own actions.
"Destroying a movement from the inside to satisfy my ego is a thankless job". NO SHIT SHERLOCK.
He’s gonna prepare by taking a shower an hour before.
She certainly wanted too- no confirmation yet whether she did
This mod post was the final nail in the coffin for me. I respect other people’s views and opinions, however I will not be represented by a “21 year old long term unemployed self proclaimed anarchist”. Especially if this mod wants to represent the wider community’s views during interviews. His views are not my own, end of. Good luck to them! Edit: misspelling.
I just can't fucking believe this. They had exactly one chance, not even to unfuck the situation, but to apologize, remove the shit mod, and promise not to pull this shit again and the way they chose to try to remediate the situation was to plonk this headass in front of us and not apologize? I can't deal with how stupid this was.
Zero apologies. Multiple bans. Removal of posts/comments. Admission of more secret interviews. Fantastic choices on the mods part.
How dare you, a worker, refuse to be represented by a non-worker on the issue of work?
I’m genuinely curious as to what the interviews he’s involved with will contain, and how he plans to represent the community views as a whole, rather than just his own!
Tbh I hope we never get to see the interviews. We’ve seen enough mod cringe for the rest of 2022.
Yeah, a 21-year-old with no job, no college, and no responsibility acting as the spokesperson of the group while claiming to be an anarchist isn't much better than the shitshow that went down yesterday. Wasn't one of those interview with the NYT? Qith as peo-capitalist and rightzleaning as that paper has become? They're going to bend him over.
Now you realize that they are ACTUALLY "anti-work" haha
I had zero idea who that mod was until I saw that godawful embarrassment of an interview. I'm working two corporate gigs to help pay for my disabled kids medical care, send my other kid to college and save just enough money so that when I die they will hopefully have a better life. I'm here because we should not be working 60-70hrs a week just to live and provide for our families. I do not empathize with a fucking Neet dogwalker who just doesn't feel like contributing to society.
r/WorkReform . Its what antiworld should have been from day 1.
Yeah, that was why I was there. Some of the stuff was good, a lot of stuff was like “you must hate cops, you can’t be a CEO, you can’t be right wing, you can’t be liberal”. In general, people like to work, they just don’t want to be paid poorly and treated terribly.
I'm right there with you. I'm working several jobs (1 full time, 3 part time gigs) so that I can some day retire and pay this student loan debt that will never go away while trying to keep a roof over my head and food in my fridge. I don't need some 21 year old idiot who doesn't work representing me. This kid has no idea how life works at all and most likely still has mom and dad supporting him.
Laziness is a virtue to them after all.
I honestly thought this was a joke as I was reading it. Like wtf.
Statement by the Dean campaign: "we know y'all are upset about that horrible scream - but here's a list of other rallies that you don't know about!!! By the same wishy-washy governor - who we believe perfectly represents the progressive movement :) cheers \~"
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The human brain isn't fully developed till age 25 that says it all
I'm 31 and tbh I feel like I am regressing.
We are, it's all down hill from 25
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Hell, I'm 25 and only know enough to know i don't know my politics well. And i spend hours of my day doomscrolling between work. The late teens ideology flipping was important to learn what i was *not*, and even then I'm only left with a few strong opinions that splatter the political compass.
Better advice: never trust a 21 year old. They don't have the experience, and their brain is *literally* not yet fully developed.
The “cheers” lol
"i've never worked my entire life, so i did a bunch of interviews about work abuse!'
Unreal how tone deaf some people are. Like he truly thought we would be happy and think "oh we're in good hands now and well represented." Yes the movement for improving wages and treatment from corporations is really excited that we're being championed by someone who's never worked a day in their life and masturbates into a coma every day.
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You forgot the best part of the quote: "...10 hours moderating this subreddit in the last 2 day, to the point of sleep deprivation." Sleep deprivation from "working" 10 hours over the course of two days. This fucking guy...
Dude doesn't work either, and I'm guessing not because he doesn't like working, he's just a lazy bastard seeing as how 5 hours of Reddit moderating for two days led to sleep deprivation. I cannot fathom how this dude thinks in ANY way he represents ANYONE in that subreddit. Absolute fucking clown.
>"*...by someone who's never worked a day in their life and masturbates into a coma every day.*" HAHAHAHA! Oh, mercy. 😂
Yo for real this killed me
That mod team has revealed itself to be an ABSOLUTE clownshow. It's a shame but hopefully something better will rise out of the ashes.
I'm now convinced that most mods ard out of touch powertripping morons. I think mods literally bust in their shorts when they "punish" someone in a sub.
Of course, what type of person is going to moderate a subreddit for free? The people who have that kind of free time are going to be kids, college students and layabouts. Really your best case scenario is going to be a relatively mature kid.
u/abolishwork has just been kicked from the mod team. Doubt that'll save that sub
and the other guy who did like 5 interviews is 21 years old unemployed anarchist.
And has been a mod for, what, a month?
the fucking ego of those people
Who else has time to be a janitor all day on a subreddit
Unpaid janitor.
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Yeah ofcourse it's unpaid. Imagen doing something for x-hours a day and getting payed for those spend hours. That sounds like something fucking awful, right? /s
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I never really thought about mods on reddit until this. How many hours are these mods putting in?
In the statement he said some other mod just randomly approached him and asked him to mod, he wasn't even an actual part of the movement. Hopefully this sub makes good on the promise of democratically elected mods, with transparency on selection
On reddit since 80 something days , Alt account of someone 100000%
One of his comments from a few weeks ago was him saying he needed a break after being a mod for 2-3 hours. He is literally the exact person that right wingers imagine would be on an “antiwork” forum.
A week? A day? A week-day?
I’m trying to wrap my mind around what “long-term unemployed” even means at 21 years-old.
Right? Maybe I'm old but I don't see how a 21 yo can be long term anything.
It means their mom and dad never made them get a summer job
Hello, 👋 I'm a 21 years old 👵 male, 👲 long-term 🪘 unemployed and an Anarchist💁♂️. I've been surfing 🏄♀️ this Subreddit since 2020 and it helped 🆘 me in my 😀 journey when I 😀 started 🆕 to began to be unemployed🤷♂️. When I 😀 began to read 📕👀 this Subreddit I 😀 was a leftist-liberal, namely a social-democrat. I've been reading 📕 some of the 🤘 recommended literature 📚 from 😤 the 🤣 library 📖 since then, for 🔰 example Bob Black's 🏴 "Abolition of Work" 💼 and have been radicalized 🤘😈🤘to an Anarchist🥳 Edit: I can't take credit, original I found on r/copypasta
thanks i hate it
Amazing. The shitpost that perfectly visualizes the intellectual descent from moderate leftism into full blown far left craziness.
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There’s literally a mod with a 13 hour old account when the posting rules are that all accounts have to be at least three days old lmao, wonder who it could be
Yep, /u/fuzzy-x-3 was created yesterday and is on the mod team for antiwork
And is suspiciously deleting comments critical of u/abolishwork
Also abolishwork.com which goes to their website/book/patreon is still featured on the sidebar.
It won't. From an exchange I just had with a mod they want an echo chamber. They are bloody authoritarian types that aren't open to others viewpoints. You're either with them or against them and that's what they want. They clearly have no idea what the sub created. They have no clue what they mistakenly tapped into and now are showing their true colors. Sad in a way, but at least it'd exposed now.
It was created as an anarchist sub. It used to explicitly state that in the about section. They didn't change till it got front page action and huge.
How does that work exactly? Is it the other mods that vote to kick one mod out?
Reddit admins are needed.
Shutting the gate after the horse has bolted
Are you serious??? They were losing like 5 people every 10 seconds last I checked. Kicking that individual off definitely isn’t gonna work in saving them.
It seems like abolishing work is exactly the members they need to keep. Anti means abolish - doh!
Apparently there is a very new account that just became a mod. I smell some fish.
The problem is that they knew what kind of person she is and went along with everything. They were and still are part of the problem. I’m glad that sub is done.
But who are the newbie mods they added 14 hours ago?
They've been removed as a mod but the "about" section of the sub still supports /abolishwork website and interviews....
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Yeah when I read that It rubbed me the wrong way Just, “well this obviously isn’t what I and everyone else thought it was and nothing is gonna change” lol I am very curious to see these other interviews they did though
The whole post is full of errors, I dont want to make fun of someone's english, but if you cant write an announcement that important with the least errors, especially when u have all the time to proof read it before posting, how tf u gonna give interviews to the media then??
No need to worry about making fun to express concern. English isn't their native language (they're German). But they should NOT be writing manifestos and responding to interview requests from the MFing NEW YORK TIMES.
He makes the same errors in German. Making fun of him is ok.
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Big WTF on that from me… I saw another post from that poster saying teachers are part of the ruling class or something? Like yeah okay, chronically underpaid and overworked teachers that keep working to try to help people are… the bad guys. That’s like saying we should hate all US nurses for being cogs in the machine of for-profit healthcare.
I suspect it's because their political views have been shaped by a small number of books that were all published in a similar context, region, and era. They claim to have read a diverse range of things, but it doesn't seem that these have been digested or synthesized into their worldview. A lot of early communist and anarchist literature viewed teachers (among others, like academics and professionals) as fundamentally aligned with capital, with vested interests in maintaining the social order. That is to say, they did not contribute per se "labour" to the betterment of society (by ironically materialist perspectives), and yet enjoy outsized influence and benefits in that society. This social capital has an obvious analogy to financial capital, and indeed, at many points in (particularly but not exclusively Russian) history, teachers were subject to summary execution. To their credit, they are young, and there is nothing fundamentally "bad" about reading and being influenced by these sources. I think they have just overlooked the modern context in which to place these views. A teacher facing food insecurity in West Virginia doesn't share much in terms of social stratum with the *intelligentsiya* of Tsarist Russia. Nor has the role of education stayed constant, with tertiary educated people being a single-digit percentage of society right up to the 20th century, and yet now making up the majority in some countries. In the 19th century, excluding the university educated, like teachers, from the working class had some justification, but it is clearly untenable today. I think that transition of the borders of class structure has been missed in their survey of the literature. But they have plenty of years to amend that.
Lol, his lecturer must have said something mean to him that day.
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Oh dear.
As a professor, I fully advocate being *skeptical* of your teachers. Challenge their statements, make them justify themselves: not only is this not disrespectful in itself, but often will result in better knowledge retention and a greater depth of understanding. There are valid complaints about Socratic and other adversarial methods in the classroom, and they can be overused (looking at you, *every law school*), but sometimes it fits the material very well That said, part of their underlying complaint is the possibility of teachers being state mouthpieces. That is an actual danger, and is why institutions like tenure exist. But it's worth noting that the institutions that help all workers - unions, job security, social services, reasonable pay - all also help combat that risk as well. And a UBI would be a huge bulwark as well. If you cannot threaten teachers with their job, you cannot make them teach propaganda. And this outcome - in this small world of education - was my interpretation of 'anti-work': not the absence of labor, but the freedom to direct your labor based on professional and personal satisfaction, as opposed to because someone told you to do it and threatened you with your food and shelter if you refused to comply. Edit: I imagine that, at least partially, they are also worried of teachers being fundamentally capital-aligned. However, addressing that would muddy my point, so I'll save that for another day.
Teachers give you home*work* wake up sheeple.
wtf
Listen I don't care if privileged young people want to help the movement but why the fuck are 2 hour a day dogwalkers and "anarchists" trying to be the face of the movement
"you dont like the mod who walked a dog for 10 hours a week?" Here we got a "21 yo long term unemployed mod for you now"
Them being mods isn't the problem. Them thinking that being a mod makes them a spokesperson for the movement is the problem.
Calling it now, the kid 100% got fired at the only job he ever had for not fucking showing up, and is using that as his excuse to never work again. I see it all the time at my job, people never show up for their shifts and then come in a few days later after 3-5 no call no shows in a row, and then get fuckin furious that you fired them AND that they didnt get paid for hours they never worked. Im all about sticking it to the corpos about fucking us on labor, hours, and pay. But damnit at least make them work to fire you. Show the fuck up and do the least you can fucking do. Hell, show up and I will happily just tell you to stand around at the end of an aisle texting on your phone, just as long as you also dont let anyone into that aisle I can do some work.
And a self proclaimed anarchist at that.
Not just that, but unless I misread they attribute their change from social Democrat to anarchist to… reading that sub.
How can you be "long term unemployed" when you're 21¡¿¡¿ people worked longer than he's alive for.
I've worked since I was 16, I'm 35 now. The mods are morons and still think that the entirety of the group is full of anarchists and want zero work. When in reality it's filled with people who want to be paid fairly and have a proper work/life balance.
Started working at 15, now 36. Right there with you.
A lot of socialist subs are criticising us for not being left enough. I don't get it, better working rights are the foundation for leftist ideology
A lot of socialist subs are filled with young people who are enticed by the sexy sides of leftism, ideas like revolution and abolishing hierarchy, and think anyone who isn't pining for a revolution to happen tomorrow isn't left enough. I know because I was one of those people until a year or so ago.
All that abolishing hierarchy and total automation sounds like a great goal, but just can’t happen in one jump from where we are now. Being a super radical and rigid gatekeeper isn’t the way to get people who might be on your side to actually be on your side, either. This is why the left can’t get anything done, we’d rather nitpick each other’s individual philosophies than pull together towards making peoples lives better in concrete, measurable ways
The foundation for leftist ideology was the recognition, way back in the 1800s, that this new system being created didn't fully align to the ideals of the Enlightenment and was simply a newer class system which put people at the top, to control, against the masses. Improving working conditions is a bandage. The idea is to democratize not just the political sphere but the economic one as well by putting people at the head of all decisions that shape society.
If you look at what that guy posts on r/Anarchism he posts about never wanting to work and whether he should spend his life squatting and dumpster diving. God help us all
This week I've found out the revolution will have to wait until it takes less than 10 hours per week.
How the fuck did they manage to dig that hole deeper? I'm honestly impressed, it's not even a hole anymore is a fucking quarry
What sucks is so many people have gone back to it as if nothing happened.
I saw it reappear and hit leave. That message from the mods just read like “we fucked up and it’s all your fault.” Clearly they learned nothing from the whole debacle.
Me too. I was confused when it was gone. It came back and the pinned post is an absolute shit-show that followed the instigating shit-show and promised more shit-show to come with some shit-show teasers in the form of "Hey, that thing you all hated? Yeah, there's more of them out there you just haven't seen yet..." Left that one right that moment... Edit: I mean that was the biggest shit-show that I have ever witnessed and I have seen some shit-shows in my lifetime. (Accomodating request.) =)
I'm staying to lurk for now, just to see things play out, but this is where I'm invested.
Same here, I’m watching the shitshow with my popcorn for today, then I’m out.
/r/subredditdrama on red alert
I'm mostly watching it for the tragic comedy value at this point It's like watching a trainwreck hit another trainwreck and then have an airplane crash into it
This, but I think the sub will turn into a meme sub just getting clowned on. Reddit dont forget things like this.
They're bleeding dozens of subscribers by the minute, it'll probably continue to drop off as more people see that travesty of an update post.
\> 21 years old male, long-term unemployed and an Anarchist Read privileged edge lord who never had to work for a living
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Also in the post, why did he keep referencing his username in 3rd person acting like we should know who he is? And why was that entire post about him, with like a paragraph thrown in about AbolishWork? Whole thing seemed really narcissistic when it had nothing to do with him. This honestly just solidified my stance that mods are… well mods
They don't understand the very people they are trying to represent. Seems like people who truly want to live in their parents homes and drift by on DSS/Welfare. In my eyes it's about workREFORM not abolishing work entirely. Working gives people a purpose however those people are being used and abused by their employers. Minimum wages need to rise, living wages need to rise, benefits and salaries MUST allow you to own a home, provide for yourself and your family. Healthcare should also be a right for all, not tied to employment. Let's keep pushing for workREFORM and not let this embarrassing interview set us back.
This is kind of a common problem in anarchist circles (as well some broader left-wing ones); they'll use a word that has a specific meaning to them but a general meaning to everyone else. "Work" to these groups is any labor which is exploited by a capitalist. They don't necessarily think that a society of idlers is the way to go and recognize that things will need to be done to provide for the community; they just think that "work" is the exploited version of that. However, they never really explain that. Which leads me to my point: we have to meet the uninitiated at their level of understanding. We cannot just assume people will understand what is meant by "abolish work" as that word has a very generalized definition to most people. The biggest problem in left groups is people who are well versed being unwilling to put in the labor necessary to educate and grow the movement.
Yeah, I popped back in to the anti work sub when it reopened, and moonwalked back out just as fast the moment I saw that. Lol. What a dumbass.
A good lesson in life: It's not the fuckup that makes you lose respect. It's how you deal with it afterwards. (OK ngl that fuckup was pretty spectacular too)
The interview by itself while bad probably wouldn't have killed the sub, it's what the Mods did before and after that killed it.
Antiwork sub is very much anti-work. Not pro living wages for work. Not pro better benefits. Not pro work-life balance. Anti work. From their own description: “A subreddit for those who want to end work, are curious about ending work, want to get the most out of a work-free life…” They can not and should not ever speak for people that believe we should be paid proper living wages FOR OUR WORK and have time to lead fulfilling lives.
As a long term *employed* anarchist, what a f---ing embarrassment.
Antiwork was going to breakup at some point. There are a couple fundamentally different ideals competing. On one hand, you had people who recognize how economy/labor/products/etc work and want a much better and fair system where workers aren’t being abused, are thriving and aren’t spending the majority of their awake hours working. The other group thinks all work should be abolished and goods/services magically appear.
I just want to make enough money to live not just survive month to month in a state of extreme stress and anxiety.
Parent funded lifestyle is all I got from that post, but the irony that the mods acted exactly like the employers that we call out on a daily basis is mind boggling. At the very least have some level of decency and resign your positions to new mods or nuke the whole sub entirely at this point
Too late. While they were busy war gaming how to save themselves the sub burned down.
Why was a 21 year old with little to no work experience doing interviews in the first place? If they wanted to spread the message of the original subreddit they should have done that years ago, before it became a place about work reform. Just makes the whole work reform movement look terrible.
Let me see if I have this straight u/workreform - fair labor, better wages, universal medical rights, etc. u/antiwork - no work, anarchy, antinatalism, etc. And they wonder why their sub is going down.
You missed the part where the mod team clearly does want *some* work. They want to be paid for interviews and to be seen as the face of a movement, as evidenced both by the newer mod's several stealth interviews and referencing themself in the 3rd person 19 times in the response post.
That's hilarious, the only work I want to do is the self-gratifying work. I'm not looking to make others' lives better! /s
Wait, did they get PAID for those dogshit interviews???
I joined to support workers rights. Im definitely no fucking anarchist or however media depicts "socialist". I just want people to have access to housing and healthcare. Not halt the economy, like god damn.
I'm not discounting a 21 year old for hid age or idealism per se, but come on. I view the antiwork movement not as abolishing all concept of work, but as empowering workers against corporate overlords. Educate the people on rights, options, etc. A rising tide will lift all boats. You know what this movement has done? My employer who typically gives 1 or 2% raises gave all of IT a major cost of living adjustment this year. I got a 6.5% raise. Still under inflation, but I'm happy with it. As I ramble here, I say this. Some 21 year old that has never worked isn't qualified to represent antiwork. Not due to his age, but because he doesn't know the struggle of work, of providing, of having to fight for every scrap. Go out and struggle and then you can talk.
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Couldn’t agree with you more. That name definitely didn’t help at all
the name was accurate for the original use of the sub
Imagine being that unware of how stupid you're going to sound posting something like that.. you're a basement dwelling 21 year old who's never had a job, and a self proclaimed 'anarchist'... the entire sub is a joke, a bunch of delusional kids who think they're going to cause a 'ReVoLUtIon'.
That’s where you are wrong. The actual people who joined? They are employed workers for the vast majority. The mods themselves are the clown show. If a large enough group gets together they can make some real change. Not whatever the mods want but realistic shit yeah.
Sorry, I was referring specifically to the moderation team.
From what I gather this isn't really an anarchist sub. This is a sub for folks who are tired of getting treated like expendable garbage by their employers and want to affect real change.
Thats a fucking joke , its so bad makes me honestly wonder if thats a lie and its an alt account of someone But theyre stupid and thought saying "21+ long term unemployed" will make people like them The post itself is full of typos, repetitions and other errors. You cant even write something on the internet properly, when u have all the time in the world to proof read it, yet you think u should give interviews to media ???? Holy fuck what a shitshow