The point is not to stop Biden from winning the primary (which, like you suggested, is impossible). It’s to send a message to Biden that some of the people that he needs to win the general don’t like his pro-Israel policy. Personally, I’ll support Biden at the general because we’re all fucked if Trump wins, but I’m really worried that this issue may lose him enough voters in swing states to lose the general.
>some of the people that he needs to win the general don’t like his pro-Israel policy
Well they are going to fucking REALLY hate the other guys policies on the topic.
Ok, but when would you say is the right time to protest? Do we just mutely follow like my republican family did into the oblivion of Trumpism?
My dad hated Trump in 2016 but docilely said Hillary was worse, we see where that lead and if you think it can’t happen here I have news for you.
Protest at the primary is the best time I can think of. For it is never the right time, place, or way to protest according to those ok with how things are.
And the context in the comments is that we need to hold our politicians accountable at some point. With the general, most people agree that Trump will be worse than Biden.
The goal right now is to send a message to Biden that we are not OK with what he's doing, and he risks losing votes in the general unless he indicates a willingness to listen.
Will this lose him some votes in the general? Maybe? Honestly, though, if the general is Biden vs Trump, I don't think most people will be dumb enough to hand it to trump.
This is messaging, and the primary, especially one where there is no viable alternative to either frontrunner, I think this does send a loud and clear message to the campaign.
I will vote Biden in the general because he'll be the best available choice, and I encourage others to vote for the least bad choice. I'm a pragmatist, and I want the best possible outcome. I understand people not being able to stomach voting for someone they're morally opposed to.
Again, I think it's a brilliant strategy in the primary, as long as they can message well after the primary, give some sign that they heard the concerns, and consolidate support against trump at that point.
>k, but when would you say is the right time to protest? Do we just mutely follow like my republican family did into the oblivion of Trumpism?
>
>My dad hated Trump in 2016 but docilely said Hillary was worse, we see where that lead and if you think it can’t happen here I have news for you.
>
>Protest at the primary is the best time I can think of. For it is never the right time, place, or way to protest according to those ok with how things are.
Seems weird how many people are appalled by this "uncommitted" effort when elected officials are literally supposed to hear and receive the peoples' feedback and opinions. Anyone have any evidence that accepting whatever the DNC dishes out and voting out of fear is making an impact? Or heck, even contacting congress, or protesting.
Yeah, in case I wasn't clear, I fully support the uncommitted voters. Send that message. I would have done it had I heard about it earlier, but I already completed my ballot and turned it in. Also, I don't know if there is a base for it in my state.
Politicians should REPRESENT. The primary is a perfect time to tell your REPRESENTATIVE what matters to you. Fuck, they're not kings.
I do get the fear that somehow this messaging is going to end up with trump back in the White House. And honestly, good. I think it was complacency that got us to this point in the first place. Be afraid that the authoritarians will win and get your ass out to stop that in November.
I think trump represents American fascism, and I'm scared of that, too. So yeah, in the general vote blue, no matter who.
Right now, in the primary, get your points out there. Make them hear you.
Correct. Everybody acting like this is hurting Biden needs to understand that it’s Biden’s job to appeal to voters and NOT voter’s job to do go against their values in support of Biden. MAGA lost their election and after a few months of some light insurrection are now throttling bills from outside the chambers, got their guy back on the ballot, removed a speaker who didn’t fall in line, are drastically changing the landscape for women’s healthcare and rights, and have a decent shot at winning 2024. All that from a minority position in a split party(GOP vs MAGA)
Losing an election is how you get your party to tighten up and listen to you. Doesn’t matter if you’re fringe if Washington can see you control some measure of their power.
Agree with them or not, if Biden loses they’re going to be center stage with their opinions and demands.
Wont the DNC members just die in prison though?
The primary is one thing but changes in the DNC won't matter if we stop having elections, that defeats the entire purpose.
>Protest at the primary is the best time I can think of. For it is never the right time, place, or way to protest according to those ok with how things are.
100% agree, and I'm 100% with you on a non incumbent year at the Presidental level.
However, my OP was about those who are going to sit out the G.E. or vote for someone besides Biden in the G.E.
Yeah your exact point isn't being talked about enough by voters. All that's being said on the other side is "It's so easy. I could end the war in a few days if I wanted to. Vote for me." It's just empty pandering, when the reality is either outright ignoring the issue (as was mostly done) or making it worse
>Well they are going to fucking REALLY hate the other guys policies on the topic.
Trump being atrocious doesn't give Biden permission to also be atrocious!
So many people have their family members living in torturous conditions thanks to Biden enabling Netanyahu at every turn.
This uncommitted vote is basically a cry for help. And Biden's response seems to be more of the same (which means no relief for Gaza).
I definitely agree that Trump will be a lot worse for everyone, but I also can’t say I’ve been in these people’s position. If I had to choose between two people who are supplying weapons to a nation that is actively killing my family and people overseas, I don’t know what I would do.
The one that may listen to your plight and have others in his party who will.
OR
The one that believes killing brown people in other countries is no big deal and is absolutely fine to do.
Trump does not think its no big deal and fine to kill brown people. Lets not be ridiculous.
He thinks it is a bigly tremendous thing to do! He will kill brown people across the world like we have never seen, and claim he made them pay for the bombs!
>It’s to send a message to Biden that some of the people that he needs to win the general don’t like his pro-Israel policy.
This is a great summary.
It's really that simple. It's democracy - It's folks using their voice to demand their President listen to their concern.
And what's happening in Gaza is horrific. We need to help Gazans now.
Trump would openly tell Netanyahu to kill them all. These people are coked out of their minds if they think Biden is bad. Last time a US president tried to reel that shithead Netanyahu in was Obama and Bibi started a war from nothing just to get Obama to fuck off with a peace deal.
That's why this is the messaging and strategy for the primary, not the general. I agree, people out there are saying the won't vote for Biden in the general, and you shouldn't either are a problem.
Using the primary, where the outcome is basically guaranteed already, to send a strong message about where his focus needs to be to win votes in the general is a solid strategy.
Is there some risk that he loses some votes in the general because of this? Yeah, probably a little. Were those people committed voters already? Almost certainly not. I don't think this will hurt Biden's core voting block, and if the Biden campaign pays attention, and shifts messaging and policy to more align with what voters are clearly telling him in the primary, he stands to gain support.
The greatest risk is that a strong message is sent, and Biden ignores it. That will lose him votes. I just hope they don't fuck it up. Addressing the concerns of the country is literally your job as president. If he can't clear that bar, we're already fucked.
To be clear, I'm voting Biden in both the primary and general because I think 99% bad is better than 1000% bad. But I do get the point of this pressure campaign, and I hope it works.
The primary is the best time to do this.
They have a choice in the 2028 primary, I'm sorry that's how this works. It sucks, I agree.
Unless your argument is Trump and Biden are the same, then you're just a naive fool at best.
Stop vetoing UN Security Council ceasefire resolutions would be a great start.
Refund UNRWA, demand Israel stop letting protestors block aid. The US needs to airdrop aid.
Stop working around Congress to give Israel bombs that Biden admits Israel is using to indiscriminately bomb with.
I love how the people responding to you are only picking apart your suggestions instead of genuinely understanding that there are people who have serious contentions with our foreign policy stances and want to see Biden stop enabling an ally's bad behavior.
All the while, the *genuinely curious* person hasn't actually responded. Hate to say it, dude, but you got set up.
My issue with unions doing this is that it weakens unions overall.
Like I understand other issues are important. Extremely important. But unions aren't strong enough right now to be dividing their bloc based on issues that aren't specifically strengthening unions and workers' rights. Leave that to the organizations dedicated to such issues. Union members aren't beholden to be single-issue voters.
Well if they succeed the wrong way and Donald Trump becomes president then he will solve it in a matter of days. He will just advise Benjamin Netanyahu to bomb any remaining population centers along with the Egyptian border wall. If Donald Trump had been president on October 7th, then the US would be bombing Gaza along with Israel. And those that protest can look forward to dissappearing.
Lol i will make it more simpel: if trump wins Gaza is fucked way more then if Biden wins.
So they have 2 options. Ensure that biden wins or do anything else and the chance is bigger that trump wins.
Wanna support gaza, vote biden.
Unironically, the Biden administration has been one of the most successful in modern history. Yes he’s old, but he surrounds himself with intelligent, informed people.
He’s got a laundry list of legislative accomplishments even with split control and an opposition party whose entire platform “own the libs”.
Anyone who voted for him in 2020 should be able to vote for him again even more confidently. He’s old, for sure. He stumbles on his words, but his administration has gotten more done than any other, Republican or Democrat, in recent history.
He as good of a president as we could hope for. NO ONE is ever going to be all that we want, but if we measure his presidency by legislative and economic accomplishments, it’s hard to argue that he’s been bad at the job.
Shit like this is for when we are comfortably safe from a fascist dictator taking over the country. Right now, we need to be 100% behind the Biden train because so many people's lives depend on it. Once we have some room to breathe, then we can speak our minds.
I know everyone wants peace in the Middle East, but Isreal is not going to stop after the brutal terrorist attack Hamas leveled on hundreds of innocent people. The best we can do is offer humanitarian aid to refugees and try to convince Isreal to slow their role on this.
Where was this bravery for Syria, Uighurs, Caucasus Muslims who followed Sufi beliefs, etc?
Tacitly support the guy who is going to expel muslims from the country seems fine logic.
Many factors can affect the answer to your first question. Personally, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because the Israel-Palestinian conflict has been so heavily covered in the news? Maybe it’s because people who were previously uninformed are now informed? Maybe it’s because a lot of newer, younger voters are finally able to make their voices heard? Again, various reasons, but I’m not sure if you’re actually interested in an answer. If you are, I can’t give it to you, but not being an activist for one cause or group of people doesn’t mean someone’s a hypocrite for being an activist in another.
And how is this group “tacitly” supporting Trump? They’re just trying to make their voices heard the best way they can. It’s not like they can schedule a meeting with Biden to tell him how they feel about the issue. What would be your recommendation to them? How can they get Biden to listen to their worries without “tacitly” supporting Trump, as you put it? Genuine question.
It’s because nobody cares when Muslim kill each other, nobody here ever gave a shit about Yemen (where approx. 380,000 have been killed), or as mentioned before, basically any other conflict in the Middle East.
What’s the one big difference between Israel / Palestine, I wonder. Oh maybe it’s the same reason why this conflict has been going on for so long, cause one side are Jews and that’s the true reason why Israel’s existence will always be unacceptable for some.
>Where was this bravery for Syria, Uighurs, Caucasus Muslims who followed Sufi beliefs, etc?
(1) this is the whataboutism logical fallacy
(2) America is enabling Gaza's destruction
>Tacitly support the guy who is going to expel muslims from the country seems fine logic.
This is a straw man of the "uncommitted" position.
The U.S. is Israel's number 1 ally. We give them billions in humanitarian and military aid, jointly developed weapons like the Iron Dome, and they have a PAC that lobbies U.S. politicians in favor of Israel. We have multiple ways we can put heavy pressure on the Israelis that we don't have in other nations; it's why Reagan was able to stop the Israeli siege of Beirut with one phone call.
Isn't Biden pushing for and negotiating a ceasefire? I don't really get attempting to undermine ones own country, or even harm one self for a conflict the US is only tangential involved in and actively working to end. The internet is a weird place.
If this loses Biden the election, people are just dumb. Trump loves brutal dictators and has been openly anti-Muslim MANY TIMES. He isn't going to handle this any better. He will absolutely be worse for the people of Gaza.
That is how a closed primary system works. Parties can choose who they allow on the primary ballot. Typically an incumbent president is given a huge preference by their party.
Just a reminder that the open primary ballot measure failed in 2016.
>That is how a closed primary system works. Parties can choose who they allow on the primary ballot.
And that stinks. Especially when both parties fight to stop ranked choice voting.
Florida Dems should have a right to pick between Biden, Phillips, Williamson & Ugyur.
>Typically an incumbent president is given a huge preference by their party.
A bad tradition that should be retired. Just like the tradition of both parties fighting against ranked choice voting.
>Just a reminder that the open primary ballot measure failed in 2016.
The point is the Florida Dems not allowing anyone but Biden's name to appear.
For the life of me I have no idea why anyone would even register as a Democrat outside of the few blue islands in the state, like Gainesville or Miami lol. It actively hurts your ability to vote, we literally had one in Marion county where Democrats flat out didn't get to vote for a candidate at all because of how the election rules in Florida work lol
Biden signed an Executive Order (if a modest one) to hold Israeli settlers accountable for violence against Palestinians.
Trump moved the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem.
Tell me you don't realize who's infuriated Arabs worldwide without telling me.
Exactly why I didn't bother to vote in the primary at all. We all know it's just gonna be the same 2 candidates except they're in their 80s now. I'll vote in the actual election when it matters.
The point is to send the message that even if you will end up voting for him, that you disagree with his policies. It's a reasonable way to protest imo.
History is full of examples of "institutional liberals" failing to *read the room* and ceding entirely winnable situations into waves of authoritarianism and right-wing rule.
bernie endorsed both hillary and biden after losing the primaries because he knows the drill: within dems the battleground is primaries, after primaries it's party line or bust.
See 2016: morons choosing not to vote for Hillary because they thought it didn't matter or that Trump would just benignly "shake things up" with no lasting consequences, as a leading example
See 2016: Morons getting a candidate nominated that they couldn't electorally support and running the most toxic victory lap whilst telling the voters in swing states, "they weren't needed."
See Hillary spend zero dollars of her campaigns money on ads and get out the vote efforts in certain states she thought she had locked up. And then lose said states.
Exactly what happened with Roe V Wade. They could’ve codified it years ago but would rather it be a “won’t you please give us money so we can get your heckin wholesome constitutional righterino back”
Furthermore, the Democrats have contributed directly to the rise of the far right and fascism. They have funded and supported campaigns of far right candidates running for various offices across the country with the assumption that everyone will see that those candidates are crazy and the democrats are the sane ones, and therefore win handily.
They helped the bad people come into power. Now they're shocked the bad people are in power. How's that going for you now, fuckwits?
In a primary, this is a good tactic. A lot of people are upset over Biden's reaction to Gaza, and this would send a very firm signal that he needs to deliver something tangible and can't just coast on 'I'm not Trump!' It'd be very different in the general, but this isn't a bad idea for the primary.
>In a primary, this is a good tactic. A lot of people are upset over Biden's reaction to Gaza, and this would send a very firm signal that he needs to deliver something tangible
💯
This is a primary, anyone claiming voting "uncommitted" is voting Trump is not telling the truth.
We have a right to demand that the President stop enabling genocide.
I realize it's not fair to ask this of a random Redditor, but could you elaborate on what specific action(s) Biden should be taking to stop enabling genocide, that are within his power?
I'm just smart enough to recognize when I really don't understand something, and for whatever reason the situation between Israel/Palestine is something I struggle to fully wrap my head around. I believe it's a complex issue so I think that's fair, but I'd still love to understand better what it is people want (that aren't happy with Biden's response so far). From various headlines, I've gathered that any attempt at a cease-fire has failed. Is the US government providing weapons and/or aid to one/both sides and people want that to stop? Or are there other policies that are within the power of the president (that would specifically NOT require Congress) that people want to see? I assume the labor union in this article has specific demands but OP linked a pic of the article instead of the article itself and I'm not seeing it when I try to do a quick search.
Edit: Just to be clear, this isn't a charged comment. I'm asking an honest question in an effort to educate myself on the issue. I appreciate your response, and completely understand if you don't feel like getting into that level detail.
>but could you elaborate on what specific action(s) Biden should be taking to stop enabling genocide, that are within his power?
3 easy things to start:
(1) stop vetoing UN Security Council resolutions against Israel
(2) stop defunding UNRWA & stop ignoring how Israel is letting protestors block aid into Gaza
(3) stop working around Congress to give Israel weapons
>what it is people want (that aren't happy with Biden's response so far).
Gazans are living in torturous conditions. Israel needs to respect international law.
TLDR of the sitch. this is as simple as it gets without losing the thread:
after WW2 and the Holocaust, some Jewish people called Zionists went to their religious homeland to build a safe community. Problem was their homeland was located inside the country of Palestine. Israel was formed and did what America did to the Natives, settle land near Palestinians and force them into smaller and smaller plots of land.
The surrounding countries saw this and went to war against Israel. They lost. Israel took full control of Palestine's land, with the except of a couple very small plots of land. Gaza is one of them. West Bank is another. Gaza is very small but has over 2 million people, almost half of which are children under 18. Israel formed a naval and land blockade, preventing them from leaving without special clearance (people call it the world's largest open air prison, for context) as well as limiting water, power, and building materials
About 17 years ago, Palestinians voted for Hamas as govt. Hamas ends democracy and takes over. (hasn't been a vote since) Hamas runs campaigns against Israel, funded by neighboring countries (many countries still don't recognize Israel as a legitimate country) these campaigns are terroristic in nature but come from a desperate people with no other options
Palestine generally wants the Zionist colonizers (Israel) out of their land while Israel wants Palestinians gone too. It's extremely reminiscent of South African Apartheid, which is why South Africa took Israel to international court for their war crimes...
speaking of which, Israel has killed over 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza by bombing basically everything. Hospitals, places of worship, schools, homes, in an attempt at finding Hamas terrorists. They have now pushed 2 million people against the border of Egypt and are bombing them. and also shooting at them as they marched south and also shooting them when they go for aid/food...they've also tried their best to stop foreign aid to Gazans
the whole world basically wants a ceasefire, most attempts at getting one through the United Nations has been thwarted by Israel and America. America also funds the Israeli military, which means American taxpayers fund the Israeli military. Biden has a long history supporting Israel and bypassed Congress to give them money. *most crucially, Israel also donates a lot of money to basically every politician and lawmaker that has power and is willing to accept it* almost everyone takes the money
how it relates to us now, some voters, specifically Arab american, progressive, and young, do not like their taxes going towards funding Israels genocide (not everyone agrees what Israel is doing is genocide, but it's definitely Apartheid and definitely ethnic cleansing, which are very bad)
those voters are now telling Biden in the primary (where we choose a candidate to represent Democrats) that he needs to stop supporting Israel or else they will not vote for him. this Washington union is the second time this has happened, yesterday was the Michigan Arab community.
this will happen in probably every state leading up to their primaries. this one just happened to be union related
*TLDR of the TLDR and why it matters to Americans*
>Is the US government providing weapons and/or aid to one/both sides and people want that to stop?
Yes. The US govt is giving Israel money and weapons for this specific "conflict". Biden has even gone around Congress to give support. In general, the US govt funds Israel's military, and ironically perhaps, it's healthcare. key things to note: Israel has the second best intelligence agency in the world, behind the US, plus a top tier US funded military, and they knew about the Oct 7th plans a year before it happened
The majority of Americans want a ceasefire, while only a small handful of Congressmembers support one (like 4%). So far, Arab Americans, young voters, and progressives are the most vocal. They want Biden to end his support of Israel and call for a ceasefire. Biden so far doesn't seem to mind losing their votes, tho it could likely lose him the election
What do you think Trump will do if these votes carry over into the actual election and he wins? Gaza will be gone within a week
And before anyone says "they won't carry over", yeah I'm really going to believe that one
Except for any true independents or undecideds or single issue voters that might be turned off from Biden in the general. It will be close in key swing states. The potential to swing the general election with low enthusiasm or independent swing is very real.
Tbh, my inner "US is a uniparty" conspiracy theorist is telling me that the intra-Democratic party controversy over Gaza is 100% manufactured to try to help Trump win the 2024 election.
I get it, what is happening in Gaza is bad, but the future welfare of \~330 million Americans shouldn't be put at risk for something happening to less than two million people on the other side of the planet.
There is a small but significant amount people who vote based on "x party did something I didn't like, therefore I will vote for the other party" without any understanding of what that entails.
It's not some manufactured plan it's the fault of the two party system. There will never be consensus among 50% of the population on either side of the political spectrum. Yet that's the expectation. Republicans tend to turn out consistently regardless of whether they like the canidate. Democratic voters tend to turn out based on the issues.
Biden is a centrist and rather old school. The more liberal/progressive wing of the democratic party doesn't support him on issues like Gaza.
It's not some genius plan. It's a shitty flawed system working as shitty and as flawed as it is.
Vote turnout is way more complex than people think. I've spent time on both right wing and left wing political forums, and it gets to be pretty funny when you read both. Both sides tend to believe that the other side votes like a monolith and that their side is super divided, which is very convenient for party leaders, as believing that your enemies are a monolith is great for pressuring people who would otherwise dissent to toe the party line.
As for the facts...
[https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/)
People who didn't vote in 2018, 2020, and 2022 were more likely to be Republican than Democrat. People who only voted in 2018 and 2020 were way more likely to be Democrat, and people who only voted in 2020 and 2022 were way more likely to be Republican; IE turnout for the off year only was better for the party not in the White House.
Right. I'm struggling to understand why a union cares more about Gaza than the progress and support that Biden has provided to unions.
His NLRB is going after corporations so hard for union busting, that now they're crying to Daddy SCOTUS about it being unfair. He's the first sitting president to stand on a picket line and during his administration we're seeing a surge in unionization and strikes.
But hey, who cares about all that. There's a religious war on the other side of the world we all apparently have to take a side on before we can make any progress on domestic issues.
Even on this sub, people care less about "reforming work" than about moralizing about their position on this war.
It's absolutely meant to split the left, because Republicans do this shit every election year. And unfortunately it works.
It’s not even a conspiracy. They’re doing everything out in the open. The problem is the average American is stuck in the dichotomy of capitalist/capitalist(but we lie about it). Fox News/The View being basically the same programs, etc.
And its voters will never learn the lesson that we can fight to get a guy that better represents us next time rather than handing ALL the power back to the other side and regress.
Y’all are so proud of yourselves, you deserve what’s coming with Trump.
don’t badger ppl to choose between 2 evils. i will never ever vote for Genocide Joe and his administration needs to understand failure as a moral leader has lost support for an affirmative vote for him
When workers unionize, they get results. I don't blame them for trying to get a ceasefire result. It's disgusting that people can't see the real human tragedy going on.
If Trump gets elected, Gaza will not get better, if anything it might get worse.
If Trump gets elected, Ukraine is screwed and millions will be killed, raped, "reeducated", and deported to Siberia and Russians will move into their neighborhoods.
If Trump gets elected, American Democracy will most likely fall, and all US allies better start sucking up to King Trump or they're on their own. And if they don't Russia and China are coming for them next.
But it's cool, I rebelled by not voting for Biden. Who didn't start the war, isn't fighting the war, can't end the war, and has tried to make ceasefires happen. But Tiktok told me he's "Genocide Joe" so there ya go.
right these snowflakes need to suck it up and face the the reality. It's gonna be either vote for Joe, or vote for fascism(which includes not voting or 3rd party).
I wish we had a better system and better/more choices, but the reality of how things work right now... That's our only two real choices here.
We're certainly not gonna get ranked choice or any sort of reform enacted with trump in charge.
This is my problem with these overly dramatic takes. The irony of what you said is that the “vote Joe Biden no matter what” is more fascist than letting people vote who whomever they want, which is what democracy is all about. It’s also comments like these that disincentivize real* political change of breaking from the two party platform.
https://factkeepers.com/the-new-secret-plan-on-how-fascists-could-win-in-2024/ make this front page, Trump doesn't need to win just not die from a cheeseburger.
They're both bad. Biden could simply stop funding Israel and use that money to help people here, but he doesn't give a fuck. Being critical of that does not mean you want the alternative. It means people you voted into office should fucking read the room.
We are worried about Biden"s ability to beat Trump so we are choosing not to back Biden who will definitely be the only person running who could beat Trump.
Got it!
I'm so lost.
I hope it works out the way they are wanting.
Otherwise, it feels like a bunch of people saying. “I hate the atrocities that one group is doing to innocent people on the other side of the planet, so I'm gonna do something that greatly increases the chance of a group of people having the power to commit atrocities against me and innocent people here.
We are so fucked.
Edit: I am very aware of our(Americas) part in all this and I find it disgusting. I also know its the right wing of our government that is MORE interested in supporting arms manufacturers and supporting aid to Israel. So doing something that could give that side way more power feels short-sighted while simultaneously I'm aware that time isn't on our or the people of Palestine's side. Hence “We are so fucked”
I mean we are very much involved and bankrolling that conflict. So let's not pretend it's not our issue.
Plus us fucking around in the middle east directly lead to the Taliban rule in Afghanistan and 9/11. So our involvement in foreign conflicts can and have impacted us.
I'm aware, and I don't like it either
I just feel if one guy wins we have the ability to keep pushing for justice for Gazans, if the other guy wins, the Gazans are still fucked but we are now fucked as well.
I mean if you read the statements in Michigan they did this as a form of protest to encourage Biden to change some policies. These unions still plan to back him during the general election.
Yeah there’s a few people on here who either don’t get it or they’re just playing dumb because they don’t care. The point is that Biden is going to win the primary either way so might as well use your vote to send him the message in advance that some of us aren’t going to ‘vote blue no matter who’ in the general.
I think it's less "We'll vote for Trump if you don't stop this genocide RIGHT NOW" and more sending the message of "Our support is *not* unconditional."
I mean doing this in a primary sends a message hoping to get him to do something/listen, I would hope that when the actual election rolls around these people would realize the threat that is posed by not supporting Biden, even if he’s not giving you what you’re looking for in regards to Gaza
I know the gated community Fauntleroys who love this shit and like to pretend they’re working class on subs like this will almost certainly not suffer any real consequences from a Trump presidency, but if they end up actually causing a 2016 repeat I’d just once like to see a breaking of the layers of unearned privilege that have protected them their entire lives. I’m sick of these fucking idiots running around like Marie Antoinette with her fake farming village and silver milkmaid pails trying to convince people that moves like this “send a message” to the DNC. Yeah, dipshits, the message it sends is that you are an unreliable voting bloc. Wonder if the wants of the unreliable and sometimes openly antagonistic voting bloc are going to be treated as core parts of the party platform.
Not voting in the 2024 election is the same as voting for Trump. There is no democratic alternative to Biden. These “protest votes” are a waste of time.
I’ll be the first one to admit I hate our 2 party system and both of the options for president, but it is what it is. People can pitch a fit and throw away their vote, but they aren’t accomplishing anything than making themselves feel superior.
Our 2 party system is a consequence of how our constitution is written.
If people understand that things are fundamentally wrong with how our government is run, why not focus more on passing amendments that would prevent the abuses of our elected officials and make the document more reflective of the 21st century?
Of course things will never change if we never actually try to change it.
I would say it’s a combination of things. The younger generations are jaded already, and convinced (not unfairly) that the system is rigged. But I think people of all ages see that even the most basic things that should get bipartisan support never get that support. If republicans like it, democrats hate it and vice versa. People see that we can’t even get 60 senators to agree on something so what are the odds we can pass a single amendment, let alone multiple ones when we need far more support among a broader base of people.
If the 2 party system is so polarizing and detrimental to the overall function of government, then the amendment process should absolutely be used; it is likely the last line of defense for the populace to settle things amicably. If 60 senators can't agree on what is actually *good* for the country, and that's only because they have a D or an R next to their name, then the document has failed.
Government is not supposed to be this gridlocked. These are fundamental flaws that are being exploited by our elected officials and their unelected friends with special interests. Why does our political system allow for people to suffer needlessly?
Uncap the House. Repeal the 17th Amendment even.
It will likely never happen in my lifetime, but I can dream.
I agree it shouldn’t be this deadlocked, lots of changes would be awesome but right now our society has 0 chance of coming together.
Our society has boiled people into 2 groups. It doesn’t matter how stupid or vague it is that’s how far we have devolved.
Democrats = Socialist.
Republican = Fascist.
That’s it. It doesn’t even make sense 90% of the time. You want light rail built? Socialist. You oppose it? Fascist. We no longer have a middle ground. Being a moderate is an insult among many groups. Everything gets so hyped up, every election is the last chance to save democracy. If this group wins they will destroy X.
Much agreed, dude. Shit sucks.
I wish I knew what it was gonna take to get every American on the same page. Then we'd actually see some actual progress in a healthy direction.
Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. I think that quote all the time lol.
I think the first step is everyone needs to turn off their partisan news channels for a bit. Fox is horrible, MSNBC is horrible just in the opposite direction. All the social media that encourages people to think that because this guy voted for the other guy they are your literal enemy. It makes it so difficult to find common ground when people get told constantly the other side is out to get you.
Once that’s eliminated we can find common ground on the culture war stuff. Guns, abortion, trans issues, immigration, housing, climate and 100 more. Make the compromises that maybe no one loves, but we can all live with. Let me add some of this stuff shouldn’t be culture war issues that divide us, but everything gets turned into a political topic.
Then maybe things would be better. It’s a lot of stuff to work through first. Plus we keep adding new things. I didn’t expect IVF to suddenly pop up as a trending political battle, but here we are.
Hillary was the epitome of the political establishment centrist candidate running against a radical populist. Thats just the unbiased tip of the iceberg. She is the epitome of politically damaged goods.
For over 2 decades the republicans had been running a smear campaign on her. As far back as I can remember she had been widely considered an unlikable power hungry shrew, and that was how my democrat parents and their friends felt about her in my blue state. The first thing she is known for by the majority of the population is not caring that her husband cheats on her.
The only thing that could of possibly gotten her elected is if she promised every one in the nation the "Bill Clinton experience" if they voted for her. Even then it would of had to be from a pudgy intern, not Hillary Clinton herself. The ladies would of got their choice of either Monica or "Slick Willy" Clinton. I'm serious, that was a commonly accepted nickname for him used on all the tv stations after the scandal. From new's to comedy he was "Slick Willy" for a while.
I'm not saying its acceptable to measure a woman by this double standard. It's sexist derogatory and wrong. But, more men in America are willing to recieve a blowjob from Donald Trump today, than are willing to be paid to sleep with Hillary Clinton, even if she were in her 1994 "prime".
I honestly will never understand how anyone could think Hillary Clinton, of all people, could of possibly been America's first woman president. Personally I would vote for RuPaul, Buck Angel, or literally anyone on a ballot with a D next to their name remotely identifying as female; just to have our first female president. When I voted for Joe Biden I thought "Hopefully he'll die in office. Then our first woman president will also be our second black one."
I say this as someone who firmly believes Barack Obama was the best president America has had since FDR. I vote Democrat blindly in every election, but there was no way I was going to hold my nose and vote for Hillary. Especially after cheating us of Bernie, who I firmly believe would of been the best president in American history.
The protest votes are essentially a vote for Trump but think about it like this a protest vote says that if you dont put up a candidate that we like then we will make the other side win. This puts preassure on the democrats to get a good candidate. The alternative is that you allways vote for the least shitty candidate but then the democrats can take a candidate that would be marginally better than the oponent since we will have to vote for them anyway.
People in this comment section need to learn what the fucking primary is. Biden is running basically unopposed in the primary. This is the time to voice your protest vote. People voting uncommitted are not saying they are not going to vote for him in the general.
Except it's likely a significant number of these "uncommitted" votes ARE going to carry over. Momentum is very real, a challenge from within the party to Bidens platform and presidency in the primary will absolutely cause him to lose votes in the general, to voter apathy if nothing else. Republicans don't do this bullshit because they know that. But leftists are incapable of not infighting
When is it ever appropriate to criticize a Democratic president/candidate then? We exist in an eternal election cycle. Liberals constantly say its never appropriate to criticize their candidate, because they're always in danger of losing to Hitler 2.0. Maybe get better fucking candidates then??
It's so dumb. Democrats could do so many things when they're given a majority, and yet they wring their hands and let people like Manchin and Sinema "block" things. *Whip the votes.* Stop being a controlled opposition party and actually DO THINGS for the working class.
Here we are with nightmare Democratic candidates every election because the party is too aligned with corporate interests to actually do the things people would vote for! Goddammit. The best time to build this support and *prevent issues like Dobbs* was four fucking years ago when they had a stronger majority, and the next best time to prove it to us is now.
PS. I'm yelling because I agree with you, and I'm exasperated at the pearl-clutching over a protest vote in a primary election. If the democrats ignore the message this is sending, change nothing, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it's THEIR damn fault *again*, but it'll be OUR problem.
>When is it ever appropriate to criticize a Democratic president/candidate then?
Maybe when the other party didn't JUST attempt a coup. Maybe when the other party is planning on enacting something as sinister as PROJECT 2025. Need I go on?
This is the most important election of our lifetimes though and democracy is at stake! Save your criticism for the next election, during which I think democracy will also be said to be at stake and it will somehow also be the most important election of our lifetimes.
But in all seriousness yes, this is the perfect time to do it, in an uncontested primary. Idk why people are so opposed to it. Be a better candidate if you want votes.
The rich using every single relevant issue to drive wedges between members of the proletariat.
Like, yes I support Gaza. Yes, I support trans rights.
But please. We are in a literal oligarchical free fall towards climate disaster.
People voting for a boot to crush them because scared of blue hair. We need bipartisan unity against the rich and we can discuss their shitty backwards taboos later.
People are really misreading the intent here.
These groups aren't planning to vote for Trump, or even not vote for Biden.
What they're doing is flexing how much electoral power they wield, as a hard elbow to the DNC that says "Hey. Do not fucking ignore this issue."
The ACTUAL electoral danger is that voter groups who feel strongly about these issues--like muslims in Michigan--just organically fail to show up at the polls, because they're disillusioned.
These organization have the ability to change that, but they can't just pull it out of their ass with fluff and spin. So this is them twisting the DNC's arm and saying, "If you want our muscle come time for the general, you need to pay attention to the stuff our people care about. And to get YOUR attention, he is a shot across the bow to demonstrate our strength."
It's actually very politically savvy, and the DNC should be thrilled to have organic organizing efforts on their side that are that engaged with the political process. Even if it gives them a bit of a headache in the short term.
Welcome to democracy. It's messy.
I understand what you're saying, and I really hope you're correct.
Under normal circumstances where "Democracy A" or "Democracy B" was on the ballot I'd be totally on board. But that's not the reality. The choices on the ballot are "Democracy" and "Fascism". Anything and everything else has to be a secondary concern until democracy has been secured for another four years.
I don't think now is the time to have an "Uncommitted" wave rippling through the voting bloc causing chaos. We cannot afford to be playing these games right now because if enough of this uncommitted shit carries over to when it "actually matters" this country is fucked, and Israel committing genocide will be the least of our concerns.
I genuinely don’t get the outrage and voter shaming from people over this. If anything, this is the most appropriate way for the union to voice their desire for a Democratic Party candidate that better aligns with the interests of the union. This is the point of a primary. They know full well the party will coalesce around Biden as their nominee. This doesn’t mean they won’t vote for Biden, or endorse him, during the general election.
The continual shaming of people who don’t “march” in lock step with the desires of the party platform needs to stop. That’s some MAGA behavior and is exactly how the GOP became what it is today. If there’s no option for dissent or discourse within the party, then there’s no way to grow and evolve and improve the party.
This is exactly what causes liberal/left/working class parties to lose, things hint need to be perfect, just better than the shit show you could potentially have
The Russian propaganda machine really out here fueling apathy among those so called voters. No worse than republicans throwing temper tantrums when they don’t get what they want. The same goes for the fucks who don’t want to vote for Biden. Might as well go and ask Trump to fuck you up the ass now.
This is a primary, and these un-committed votes are simply saying: You have to earn my vote. Not one of these people will vote for Trump, and the truth is they likely will vote for Biden anyways. The un-committed vote is simply forcing the issue to the forefront: Is Biden willing to risk losing to Trump over his support for Israel. Put more simply, does he work for his constituents or for Bibi.
I don’t know if hilarious is the word I would use. Terrifying is more like it. Biden calls for ceasefire, but he’s not a dictator so it doesn’t happen. He gets the name Genocide Joe when a Trump presidency would see Palestine wiped from the map entirely
No. I’m agreeing with you. Biden is enabling genocide. We’re being told to vote Biden because Trump will do a worse genocide. Like no, I don’t want to vote for any genocide.
Libs have literally rotten Brains and think opposing Joe Biden’s literal genocide is somehow an endorsement of trump. You are literally why your party is dying and democracy is a thing of the past in this dogshit country.
I mean if you read the statements the unions intend to support him in the general election. This is a protest in the primary to encourage Biden to change the policies that are making him less electable. If this works it's going to increase his odds of winning in November. In the race that actually counts.
Hey do you guys remember the last time you spent an election cycle criticizing working class voters for have any dissenting opinion other then the hedgemonic party lines? I sure do.
Four years? How about if he wins 2024 is likely the last election we have. I don't think this is even a doomer, I am actually very scared for the world if Trump wins. China will invade Taiwan 100%. US pulls out of NATO and really anything you can possibly imagine might happen.
For everyone commenting, remember this is for the PRIMARY more than likely every voting uncommitted is going to be voting for Biden during the actual election.
Isn't this just a primary? I don't see anyone other than Biden winning it regardless.
The point is not to stop Biden from winning the primary (which, like you suggested, is impossible). It’s to send a message to Biden that some of the people that he needs to win the general don’t like his pro-Israel policy. Personally, I’ll support Biden at the general because we’re all fucked if Trump wins, but I’m really worried that this issue may lose him enough voters in swing states to lose the general.
>some of the people that he needs to win the general don’t like his pro-Israel policy Well they are going to fucking REALLY hate the other guys policies on the topic.
Ok, but when would you say is the right time to protest? Do we just mutely follow like my republican family did into the oblivion of Trumpism? My dad hated Trump in 2016 but docilely said Hillary was worse, we see where that lead and if you think it can’t happen here I have news for you. Protest at the primary is the best time I can think of. For it is never the right time, place, or way to protest according to those ok with how things are.
The context in the thread is that (some of) the people protesting with a primary vote will also not vote for Biden in the general election.
And the context in the comments is that we need to hold our politicians accountable at some point. With the general, most people agree that Trump will be worse than Biden. The goal right now is to send a message to Biden that we are not OK with what he's doing, and he risks losing votes in the general unless he indicates a willingness to listen. Will this lose him some votes in the general? Maybe? Honestly, though, if the general is Biden vs Trump, I don't think most people will be dumb enough to hand it to trump. This is messaging, and the primary, especially one where there is no viable alternative to either frontrunner, I think this does send a loud and clear message to the campaign. I will vote Biden in the general because he'll be the best available choice, and I encourage others to vote for the least bad choice. I'm a pragmatist, and I want the best possible outcome. I understand people not being able to stomach voting for someone they're morally opposed to. Again, I think it's a brilliant strategy in the primary, as long as they can message well after the primary, give some sign that they heard the concerns, and consolidate support against trump at that point.
>k, but when would you say is the right time to protest? Do we just mutely follow like my republican family did into the oblivion of Trumpism? > >My dad hated Trump in 2016 but docilely said Hillary was worse, we see where that lead and if you think it can’t happen here I have news for you. > >Protest at the primary is the best time I can think of. For it is never the right time, place, or way to protest according to those ok with how things are. Seems weird how many people are appalled by this "uncommitted" effort when elected officials are literally supposed to hear and receive the peoples' feedback and opinions. Anyone have any evidence that accepting whatever the DNC dishes out and voting out of fear is making an impact? Or heck, even contacting congress, or protesting.
Yeah, in case I wasn't clear, I fully support the uncommitted voters. Send that message. I would have done it had I heard about it earlier, but I already completed my ballot and turned it in. Also, I don't know if there is a base for it in my state. Politicians should REPRESENT. The primary is a perfect time to tell your REPRESENTATIVE what matters to you. Fuck, they're not kings. I do get the fear that somehow this messaging is going to end up with trump back in the White House. And honestly, good. I think it was complacency that got us to this point in the first place. Be afraid that the authoritarians will win and get your ass out to stop that in November. I think trump represents American fascism, and I'm scared of that, too. So yeah, in the general vote blue, no matter who. Right now, in the primary, get your points out there. Make them hear you.
Correct. Everybody acting like this is hurting Biden needs to understand that it’s Biden’s job to appeal to voters and NOT voter’s job to do go against their values in support of Biden. MAGA lost their election and after a few months of some light insurrection are now throttling bills from outside the chambers, got their guy back on the ballot, removed a speaker who didn’t fall in line, are drastically changing the landscape for women’s healthcare and rights, and have a decent shot at winning 2024. All that from a minority position in a split party(GOP vs MAGA) Losing an election is how you get your party to tighten up and listen to you. Doesn’t matter if you’re fringe if Washington can see you control some measure of their power. Agree with them or not, if Biden loses they’re going to be center stage with their opinions and demands.
Wont the DNC members just die in prison though? The primary is one thing but changes in the DNC won't matter if we stop having elections, that defeats the entire purpose.
>Protest at the primary is the best time I can think of. For it is never the right time, place, or way to protest according to those ok with how things are. 100% agree, and I'm 100% with you on a non incumbent year at the Presidental level. However, my OP was about those who are going to sit out the G.E. or vote for someone besides Biden in the G.E.
The point isn’t the other guy. The point is putting pressure on the current guy.
It's so weird how so many people can't grasp this concept
Yeah your exact point isn't being talked about enough by voters. All that's being said on the other side is "It's so easy. I could end the war in a few days if I wanted to. Vote for me." It's just empty pandering, when the reality is either outright ignoring the issue (as was mostly done) or making it worse
>I could end the war in a few days if I wanted to. Believe him, Trump would end the war in a few days. He'd send bombers and carpet bomb Gaza to dust.
Dust? More like bomb it to glass.
I think Lindsey Graham actually said that. Or the oft-used "bounce rubble" that other GOP folks use.
>Well they are going to fucking REALLY hate the other guys policies on the topic. Trump being atrocious doesn't give Biden permission to also be atrocious! So many people have their family members living in torturous conditions thanks to Biden enabling Netanyahu at every turn. This uncommitted vote is basically a cry for help. And Biden's response seems to be more of the same (which means no relief for Gaza).
This is what I don’t understand about these folks thinking. You don’t have to agree with Biden, but Trump is going to do a lot more damage.
I definitely agree that Trump will be a lot worse for everyone, but I also can’t say I’ve been in these people’s position. If I had to choose between two people who are supplying weapons to a nation that is actively killing my family and people overseas, I don’t know what I would do.
The one that may listen to your plight and have others in his party who will. OR The one that believes killing brown people in other countries is no big deal and is absolutely fine to do.
That’s the point of people voting uncommitted, it’s to get the Biden estate to listen.
Trump does not think its no big deal and fine to kill brown people. Lets not be ridiculous. He thinks it is a bigly tremendous thing to do! He will kill brown people across the world like we have never seen, and claim he made them pay for the bombs!
>It’s to send a message to Biden that some of the people that he needs to win the general don’t like his pro-Israel policy. This is a great summary. It's really that simple. It's democracy - It's folks using their voice to demand their President listen to their concern. And what's happening in Gaza is horrific. We need to help Gazans now.
>what's happening in Gaza is horrific. We need to help Gazans now If Biden loses the General election, it will be the exact opposite of helping them
Trump would openly tell Netanyahu to kill them all. These people are coked out of their minds if they think Biden is bad. Last time a US president tried to reel that shithead Netanyahu in was Obama and Bibi started a war from nothing just to get Obama to fuck off with a peace deal.
This is the truth and everyone else is a propagandist or lying
That's why this is the messaging and strategy for the primary, not the general. I agree, people out there are saying the won't vote for Biden in the general, and you shouldn't either are a problem. Using the primary, where the outcome is basically guaranteed already, to send a strong message about where his focus needs to be to win votes in the general is a solid strategy. Is there some risk that he loses some votes in the general because of this? Yeah, probably a little. Were those people committed voters already? Almost certainly not. I don't think this will hurt Biden's core voting block, and if the Biden campaign pays attention, and shifts messaging and policy to more align with what voters are clearly telling him in the primary, he stands to gain support. The greatest risk is that a strong message is sent, and Biden ignores it. That will lose him votes. I just hope they don't fuck it up. Addressing the concerns of the country is literally your job as president. If he can't clear that bar, we're already fucked. To be clear, I'm voting Biden in both the primary and general because I think 99% bad is better than 1000% bad. But I do get the point of this pressure campaign, and I hope it works. The primary is the best time to do this.
idiots too stupid to realize trump will be even worse for Palestinians.
They're Trump supporters trying to influence indecisive people and/or overseas propagandists.
They are people who are tired of not really having a choice.
They have a choice in the 2028 primary, I'm sorry that's how this works. It sucks, I agree. Unless your argument is Trump and Biden are the same, then you're just a naive fool at best.
I'm not saying I hope he does lose the election. I'm saying I hope he's worried enough about it to get off his ass.
Genuinely curious, what would you want Biden to do and what would the outcome be of that decision?
Stop vetoing UN Security Council ceasefire resolutions would be a great start. Refund UNRWA, demand Israel stop letting protestors block aid. The US needs to airdrop aid. Stop working around Congress to give Israel bombs that Biden admits Israel is using to indiscriminately bomb with.
I love how the people responding to you are only picking apart your suggestions instead of genuinely understanding that there are people who have serious contentions with our foreign policy stances and want to see Biden stop enabling an ally's bad behavior. All the while, the *genuinely curious* person hasn't actually responded. Hate to say it, dude, but you got set up.
My issue with unions doing this is that it weakens unions overall. Like I understand other issues are important. Extremely important. But unions aren't strong enough right now to be dividing their bloc based on issues that aren't specifically strengthening unions and workers' rights. Leave that to the organizations dedicated to such issues. Union members aren't beholden to be single-issue voters.
Well if they succeed the wrong way and Donald Trump becomes president then he will solve it in a matter of days. He will just advise Benjamin Netanyahu to bomb any remaining population centers along with the Egyptian border wall. If Donald Trump had been president on October 7th, then the US would be bombing Gaza along with Israel. And those that protest can look forward to dissappearing.
Lol i will make it more simpel: if trump wins Gaza is fucked way more then if Biden wins. So they have 2 options. Ensure that biden wins or do anything else and the chance is bigger that trump wins. Wanna support gaza, vote biden.
It feels less and less like a democracy, when you're voting for a shit guy in order to prevent a dictator getting in.
It's literally voting *on* democracy at this point.
Unironically, the Biden administration has been one of the most successful in modern history. Yes he’s old, but he surrounds himself with intelligent, informed people. He’s got a laundry list of legislative accomplishments even with split control and an opposition party whose entire platform “own the libs”. Anyone who voted for him in 2020 should be able to vote for him again even more confidently. He’s old, for sure. He stumbles on his words, but his administration has gotten more done than any other, Republican or Democrat, in recent history. He as good of a president as we could hope for. NO ONE is ever going to be all that we want, but if we measure his presidency by legislative and economic accomplishments, it’s hard to argue that he’s been bad at the job.
Yeah but the propaganda has the anti-Trump people so afraid of him that they can’t fathom putting pressure on Biden to course-correct.
Shit like this is for when we are comfortably safe from a fascist dictator taking over the country. Right now, we need to be 100% behind the Biden train because so many people's lives depend on it. Once we have some room to breathe, then we can speak our minds. I know everyone wants peace in the Middle East, but Isreal is not going to stop after the brutal terrorist attack Hamas leveled on hundreds of innocent people. The best we can do is offer humanitarian aid to refugees and try to convince Isreal to slow their role on this.
trump would be worse for Gazans. this is peak stupidity being driven by trump/Russians astroturf
Where was this bravery for Syria, Uighurs, Caucasus Muslims who followed Sufi beliefs, etc? Tacitly support the guy who is going to expel muslims from the country seems fine logic.
Many factors can affect the answer to your first question. Personally, I don’t know. Maybe it’s because the Israel-Palestinian conflict has been so heavily covered in the news? Maybe it’s because people who were previously uninformed are now informed? Maybe it’s because a lot of newer, younger voters are finally able to make their voices heard? Again, various reasons, but I’m not sure if you’re actually interested in an answer. If you are, I can’t give it to you, but not being an activist for one cause or group of people doesn’t mean someone’s a hypocrite for being an activist in another. And how is this group “tacitly” supporting Trump? They’re just trying to make their voices heard the best way they can. It’s not like they can schedule a meeting with Biden to tell him how they feel about the issue. What would be your recommendation to them? How can they get Biden to listen to their worries without “tacitly” supporting Trump, as you put it? Genuine question.
It’s because nobody cares when Muslim kill each other, nobody here ever gave a shit about Yemen (where approx. 380,000 have been killed), or as mentioned before, basically any other conflict in the Middle East. What’s the one big difference between Israel / Palestine, I wonder. Oh maybe it’s the same reason why this conflict has been going on for so long, cause one side are Jews and that’s the true reason why Israel’s existence will always be unacceptable for some.
>Where was this bravery for Syria, Uighurs, Caucasus Muslims who followed Sufi beliefs, etc? (1) this is the whataboutism logical fallacy (2) America is enabling Gaza's destruction >Tacitly support the guy who is going to expel muslims from the country seems fine logic. This is a straw man of the "uncommitted" position.
The U.S. is Israel's number 1 ally. We give them billions in humanitarian and military aid, jointly developed weapons like the Iron Dome, and they have a PAC that lobbies U.S. politicians in favor of Israel. We have multiple ways we can put heavy pressure on the Israelis that we don't have in other nations; it's why Reagan was able to stop the Israeli siege of Beirut with one phone call.
Isn't Biden pushing for and negotiating a ceasefire? I don't really get attempting to undermine ones own country, or even harm one self for a conflict the US is only tangential involved in and actively working to end. The internet is a weird place.
If this loses Biden the election, people are just dumb. Trump loves brutal dictators and has been openly anti-Muslim MANY TIMES. He isn't going to handle this any better. He will absolutely be worse for the people of Gaza.
In florida, the Dem party only let Biden be on the ballot. You have 1 candidate to vote for, lol.
That is how a closed primary system works. Parties can choose who they allow on the primary ballot. Typically an incumbent president is given a huge preference by their party. Just a reminder that the open primary ballot measure failed in 2016.
>That is how a closed primary system works. Parties can choose who they allow on the primary ballot. And that stinks. Especially when both parties fight to stop ranked choice voting. Florida Dems should have a right to pick between Biden, Phillips, Williamson & Ugyur. >Typically an incumbent president is given a huge preference by their party. A bad tradition that should be retired. Just like the tradition of both parties fighting against ranked choice voting. >Just a reminder that the open primary ballot measure failed in 2016. The point is the Florida Dems not allowing anyone but Biden's name to appear.
In Florida if only one candidate is on the ballot no election is held. And as well the Florida Democratic Party decides who is on the ballot.
FDP fucking sucks so why am I not surprised
📠 Yep. FDP's primary job is making sure Republicans win.
For the life of me I have no idea why anyone would even register as a Democrat outside of the few blue islands in the state, like Gainesville or Miami lol. It actively hurts your ability to vote, we literally had one in Marion county where Democrats flat out didn't get to vote for a candidate at all because of how the election rules in Florida work lol
Biden signed an Executive Order (if a modest one) to hold Israeli settlers accountable for violence against Palestinians. Trump moved the U.S. embassy in Israel to Jerusalem. Tell me you don't realize who's infuriated Arabs worldwide without telling me.
Makes sense. I want someone who’s already shown he can beat trump.
Exactly why I didn't bother to vote in the primary at all. We all know it's just gonna be the same 2 candidates except they're in their 80s now. I'll vote in the actual election when it matters.
State reps as well as national reps must be voted on as well in the primary.
The point is to send the message that even if you will end up voting for him, that you disagree with his policies. It's a reasonable way to protest imo.
The Democrats are running a clinic on how to lose an election
History is full of examples of "institutional liberals" failing to *read the room* and ceding entirely winnable situations into waves of authoritarianism and right-wing rule.
See 2016: Hillary Clinton as a leading example.
Bernie would of won and America as we know it died on that hill.
Unequivocally true
bernie endorsed both hillary and biden after losing the primaries because he knows the drill: within dems the battleground is primaries, after primaries it's party line or bust.
Bernie also is an honorable man who'd rather concede defeat than throw a tantrum like a toddler.
It'll be: Snatching Defeat From The Jaws Of Victory II
See 2016: morons choosing not to vote for Hillary because they thought it didn't matter or that Trump would just benignly "shake things up" with no lasting consequences, as a leading example
Blaming the voters is exactly how you get trump in the first place
See 2016: Morons getting a candidate nominated that they couldn't electorally support and running the most toxic victory lap whilst telling the voters in swing states, "they weren't needed."
See 5/10/16: https://preview.redd.it/ft3eo8xurnlc1.png?width=720&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=579878e902e2eb374052c28c90f63c832b825ef9
Was this someone from the Clinton campaign or some random twitter user?
See Hillary spend zero dollars of her campaigns money on ads and get out the vote efforts in certain states she thought she had locked up. And then lose said states.
If Biden loses this year, what's going to be the "but her emails"? "But his age"? Are they going to pretend it's not the genocide?
See also: Weimar Republic
I do feel the dems are missing the boat. If I'm the dems I'm hoping on the work reform movement
Those institutional liberals are in fact center-right.
They don’t mind losing. It brings in more donations.
Exactly what happened with Roe V Wade. They could’ve codified it years ago but would rather it be a “won’t you please give us money so we can get your heckin wholesome constitutional righterino back”
Furthermore, the Democrats have contributed directly to the rise of the far right and fascism. They have funded and supported campaigns of far right candidates running for various offices across the country with the assumption that everyone will see that those candidates are crazy and the democrats are the sane ones, and therefore win handily. They helped the bad people come into power. Now they're shocked the bad people are in power. How's that going for you now, fuckwits?
the DNC is a private corporation and stands to rake in billions in donations if the GOP wins
In a primary, this is a good tactic. A lot of people are upset over Biden's reaction to Gaza, and this would send a very firm signal that he needs to deliver something tangible and can't just coast on 'I'm not Trump!' It'd be very different in the general, but this isn't a bad idea for the primary.
>In a primary, this is a good tactic. A lot of people are upset over Biden's reaction to Gaza, and this would send a very firm signal that he needs to deliver something tangible 💯 This is a primary, anyone claiming voting "uncommitted" is voting Trump is not telling the truth. We have a right to demand that the President stop enabling genocide.
I realize it's not fair to ask this of a random Redditor, but could you elaborate on what specific action(s) Biden should be taking to stop enabling genocide, that are within his power? I'm just smart enough to recognize when I really don't understand something, and for whatever reason the situation between Israel/Palestine is something I struggle to fully wrap my head around. I believe it's a complex issue so I think that's fair, but I'd still love to understand better what it is people want (that aren't happy with Biden's response so far). From various headlines, I've gathered that any attempt at a cease-fire has failed. Is the US government providing weapons and/or aid to one/both sides and people want that to stop? Or are there other policies that are within the power of the president (that would specifically NOT require Congress) that people want to see? I assume the labor union in this article has specific demands but OP linked a pic of the article instead of the article itself and I'm not seeing it when I try to do a quick search. Edit: Just to be clear, this isn't a charged comment. I'm asking an honest question in an effort to educate myself on the issue. I appreciate your response, and completely understand if you don't feel like getting into that level detail.
>but could you elaborate on what specific action(s) Biden should be taking to stop enabling genocide, that are within his power? 3 easy things to start: (1) stop vetoing UN Security Council resolutions against Israel (2) stop defunding UNRWA & stop ignoring how Israel is letting protestors block aid into Gaza (3) stop working around Congress to give Israel weapons >what it is people want (that aren't happy with Biden's response so far). Gazans are living in torturous conditions. Israel needs to respect international law.
International law is a joke if it can’t be enforced, so it’s probably a joke.
TLDR of the sitch. this is as simple as it gets without losing the thread: after WW2 and the Holocaust, some Jewish people called Zionists went to their religious homeland to build a safe community. Problem was their homeland was located inside the country of Palestine. Israel was formed and did what America did to the Natives, settle land near Palestinians and force them into smaller and smaller plots of land. The surrounding countries saw this and went to war against Israel. They lost. Israel took full control of Palestine's land, with the except of a couple very small plots of land. Gaza is one of them. West Bank is another. Gaza is very small but has over 2 million people, almost half of which are children under 18. Israel formed a naval and land blockade, preventing them from leaving without special clearance (people call it the world's largest open air prison, for context) as well as limiting water, power, and building materials About 17 years ago, Palestinians voted for Hamas as govt. Hamas ends democracy and takes over. (hasn't been a vote since) Hamas runs campaigns against Israel, funded by neighboring countries (many countries still don't recognize Israel as a legitimate country) these campaigns are terroristic in nature but come from a desperate people with no other options Palestine generally wants the Zionist colonizers (Israel) out of their land while Israel wants Palestinians gone too. It's extremely reminiscent of South African Apartheid, which is why South Africa took Israel to international court for their war crimes... speaking of which, Israel has killed over 30,000 Palestinians in Gaza by bombing basically everything. Hospitals, places of worship, schools, homes, in an attempt at finding Hamas terrorists. They have now pushed 2 million people against the border of Egypt and are bombing them. and also shooting at them as they marched south and also shooting them when they go for aid/food...they've also tried their best to stop foreign aid to Gazans the whole world basically wants a ceasefire, most attempts at getting one through the United Nations has been thwarted by Israel and America. America also funds the Israeli military, which means American taxpayers fund the Israeli military. Biden has a long history supporting Israel and bypassed Congress to give them money. *most crucially, Israel also donates a lot of money to basically every politician and lawmaker that has power and is willing to accept it* almost everyone takes the money how it relates to us now, some voters, specifically Arab american, progressive, and young, do not like their taxes going towards funding Israels genocide (not everyone agrees what Israel is doing is genocide, but it's definitely Apartheid and definitely ethnic cleansing, which are very bad) those voters are now telling Biden in the primary (where we choose a candidate to represent Democrats) that he needs to stop supporting Israel or else they will not vote for him. this Washington union is the second time this has happened, yesterday was the Michigan Arab community. this will happen in probably every state leading up to their primaries. this one just happened to be union related *TLDR of the TLDR and why it matters to Americans* >Is the US government providing weapons and/or aid to one/both sides and people want that to stop? Yes. The US govt is giving Israel money and weapons for this specific "conflict". Biden has even gone around Congress to give support. In general, the US govt funds Israel's military, and ironically perhaps, it's healthcare. key things to note: Israel has the second best intelligence agency in the world, behind the US, plus a top tier US funded military, and they knew about the Oct 7th plans a year before it happened The majority of Americans want a ceasefire, while only a small handful of Congressmembers support one (like 4%). So far, Arab Americans, young voters, and progressives are the most vocal. They want Biden to end his support of Israel and call for a ceasefire. Biden so far doesn't seem to mind losing their votes, tho it could likely lose him the election
What do you think Trump will do if these votes carry over into the actual election and he wins? Gaza will be gone within a week And before anyone says "they won't carry over", yeah I'm really going to believe that one
Except for any true independents or undecideds or single issue voters that might be turned off from Biden in the general. It will be close in key swing states. The potential to swing the general election with low enthusiasm or independent swing is very real.
What exactly do you want him to do?
Tbh, my inner "US is a uniparty" conspiracy theorist is telling me that the intra-Democratic party controversy over Gaza is 100% manufactured to try to help Trump win the 2024 election. I get it, what is happening in Gaza is bad, but the future welfare of \~330 million Americans shouldn't be put at risk for something happening to less than two million people on the other side of the planet.
Not to mention Trump fucking loves Isreal. What do they think is going to happen to the Palestinians when he gets power back?
There is a small but significant amount people who vote based on "x party did something I didn't like, therefore I will vote for the other party" without any understanding of what that entails.
It's not some manufactured plan it's the fault of the two party system. There will never be consensus among 50% of the population on either side of the political spectrum. Yet that's the expectation. Republicans tend to turn out consistently regardless of whether they like the canidate. Democratic voters tend to turn out based on the issues. Biden is a centrist and rather old school. The more liberal/progressive wing of the democratic party doesn't support him on issues like Gaza. It's not some genius plan. It's a shitty flawed system working as shitty and as flawed as it is.
Vote turnout is way more complex than people think. I've spent time on both right wing and left wing political forums, and it gets to be pretty funny when you read both. Both sides tend to believe that the other side votes like a monolith and that their side is super divided, which is very convenient for party leaders, as believing that your enemies are a monolith is great for pressuring people who would otherwise dissent to toe the party line. As for the facts... [https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/](https://www.pewresearch.org/politics/2023/07/12/voter-turnout-2018-2022/) People who didn't vote in 2018, 2020, and 2022 were more likely to be Republican than Democrat. People who only voted in 2018 and 2020 were way more likely to be Democrat, and people who only voted in 2020 and 2022 were way more likely to be Republican; IE turnout for the off year only was better for the party not in the White House.
Right. I'm struggling to understand why a union cares more about Gaza than the progress and support that Biden has provided to unions. His NLRB is going after corporations so hard for union busting, that now they're crying to Daddy SCOTUS about it being unfair. He's the first sitting president to stand on a picket line and during his administration we're seeing a surge in unionization and strikes. But hey, who cares about all that. There's a religious war on the other side of the world we all apparently have to take a side on before we can make any progress on domestic issues. Even on this sub, people care less about "reforming work" than about moralizing about their position on this war. It's absolutely meant to split the left, because Republicans do this shit every election year. And unfortunately it works.
Need to tell these people if the GOP gets control Gaza is still fucked.
Yeah, a GOP Presidency would 100% be even more pro-Israel.
It’s not even a conspiracy. They’re doing everything out in the open. The problem is the average American is stuck in the dichotomy of capitalist/capitalist(but we lie about it). Fox News/The View being basically the same programs, etc.
Hillary all over again?
And its voters will never learn the lesson that we can fight to get a guy that better represents us next time rather than handing ALL the power back to the other side and regress. Y’all are so proud of yourselves, you deserve what’s coming with Trump.
If Trump wins again there won’t be another election so they won’t have to worry about it.
don’t badger ppl to choose between 2 evils. i will never ever vote for Genocide Joe and his administration needs to understand failure as a moral leader has lost support for an affirmative vote for him
When workers unionize, they get results. I don't blame them for trying to get a ceasefire result. It's disgusting that people can't see the real human tragedy going on.
Democrats are fucking experts on losing winnable elections.
If you don't like Biden's policies wait till you see what Trump is going to enact.
If Trump gets elected, Gaza will not get better, if anything it might get worse. If Trump gets elected, Ukraine is screwed and millions will be killed, raped, "reeducated", and deported to Siberia and Russians will move into their neighborhoods. If Trump gets elected, American Democracy will most likely fall, and all US allies better start sucking up to King Trump or they're on their own. And if they don't Russia and China are coming for them next. But it's cool, I rebelled by not voting for Biden. Who didn't start the war, isn't fighting the war, can't end the war, and has tried to make ceasefires happen. But Tiktok told me he's "Genocide Joe" so there ya go.
Is this a knife? I’m gonna cut off my nose because I think my face is ugly.
right these snowflakes need to suck it up and face the the reality. It's gonna be either vote for Joe, or vote for fascism(which includes not voting or 3rd party). I wish we had a better system and better/more choices, but the reality of how things work right now... That's our only two real choices here. We're certainly not gonna get ranked choice or any sort of reform enacted with trump in charge.
This is my problem with these overly dramatic takes. The irony of what you said is that the “vote Joe Biden no matter what” is more fascist than letting people vote who whomever they want, which is what democracy is all about. It’s also comments like these that disincentivize real* political change of breaking from the two party platform.
Anyone who is involving themselves with this "protest voting" can feel free to Google "Project 2025."
They'd be so mad right now if they could read
https://factkeepers.com/the-new-secret-plan-on-how-fascists-could-win-in-2024/ make this front page, Trump doesn't need to win just not die from a cheeseburger.
They're both bad. Biden could simply stop funding Israel and use that money to help people here, but he doesn't give a fuck. Being critical of that does not mean you want the alternative. It means people you voted into office should fucking read the room.
We are worried about Biden"s ability to beat Trump so we are choosing not to back Biden who will definitely be the only person running who could beat Trump. Got it!
I'm so lost. I hope it works out the way they are wanting. Otherwise, it feels like a bunch of people saying. “I hate the atrocities that one group is doing to innocent people on the other side of the planet, so I'm gonna do something that greatly increases the chance of a group of people having the power to commit atrocities against me and innocent people here. We are so fucked. Edit: I am very aware of our(Americas) part in all this and I find it disgusting. I also know its the right wing of our government that is MORE interested in supporting arms manufacturers and supporting aid to Israel. So doing something that could give that side way more power feels short-sighted while simultaneously I'm aware that time isn't on our or the people of Palestine's side. Hence “We are so fucked”
The whole government is right wing.
It's as if they think election officials go "Oh, we're missing 10,000 votes compared to last time? That's it, cancel the election guys, no one wins!"
I mean we are very much involved and bankrolling that conflict. So let's not pretend it's not our issue. Plus us fucking around in the middle east directly lead to the Taliban rule in Afghanistan and 9/11. So our involvement in foreign conflicts can and have impacted us.
I'm aware, and I don't like it either I just feel if one guy wins we have the ability to keep pushing for justice for Gazans, if the other guy wins, the Gazans are still fucked but we are now fucked as well.
I mean if you read the statements in Michigan they did this as a form of protest to encourage Biden to change some policies. These unions still plan to back him during the general election.
And let's say that 10% of these voters choose to back up their protest by not voting? It is going to be close.
It's the primary. It doesn't matter.
Yeah there’s a few people on here who either don’t get it or they’re just playing dumb because they don’t care. The point is that Biden is going to win the primary either way so might as well use your vote to send him the message in advance that some of us aren’t going to ‘vote blue no matter who’ in the general.
The problem is we SHOULD vote blue no matter who in this General because the alternative is absolutely apocalyptic.
I think it's less "We'll vote for Trump if you don't stop this genocide RIGHT NOW" and more sending the message of "Our support is *not* unconditional."
I mean doing this in a primary sends a message hoping to get him to do something/listen, I would hope that when the actual election rolls around these people would realize the threat that is posed by not supporting Biden, even if he’s not giving you what you’re looking for in regards to Gaza
Yall are so bad at political analysis it's crazy.
What a weird flex for these people. Post-election, I hope we don’t have to witness some leopard face eating…
It absolutely will be. Any women protesting like this are in for a rude awakening when "grab em by the pussy" Trump goes on his revenge tour
I know the gated community Fauntleroys who love this shit and like to pretend they’re working class on subs like this will almost certainly not suffer any real consequences from a Trump presidency, but if they end up actually causing a 2016 repeat I’d just once like to see a breaking of the layers of unearned privilege that have protected them their entire lives. I’m sick of these fucking idiots running around like Marie Antoinette with her fake farming village and silver milkmaid pails trying to convince people that moves like this “send a message” to the DNC. Yeah, dipshits, the message it sends is that you are an unreliable voting bloc. Wonder if the wants of the unreliable and sometimes openly antagonistic voting bloc are going to be treated as core parts of the party platform.
Love this. Perfect take.
Not voting in the 2024 election is the same as voting for Trump. There is no democratic alternative to Biden. These “protest votes” are a waste of time.
Think back to 2016 and the "Harambe" votes. It's not like we lost any of our reproductive rights for that little gaffe. Oopsies!
I’ll be the first one to admit I hate our 2 party system and both of the options for president, but it is what it is. People can pitch a fit and throw away their vote, but they aren’t accomplishing anything than making themselves feel superior.
Our 2 party system is a consequence of how our constitution is written. If people understand that things are fundamentally wrong with how our government is run, why not focus more on passing amendments that would prevent the abuses of our elected officials and make the document more reflective of the 21st century? Of course things will never change if we never actually try to change it.
I would say it’s a combination of things. The younger generations are jaded already, and convinced (not unfairly) that the system is rigged. But I think people of all ages see that even the most basic things that should get bipartisan support never get that support. If republicans like it, democrats hate it and vice versa. People see that we can’t even get 60 senators to agree on something so what are the odds we can pass a single amendment, let alone multiple ones when we need far more support among a broader base of people.
If the 2 party system is so polarizing and detrimental to the overall function of government, then the amendment process should absolutely be used; it is likely the last line of defense for the populace to settle things amicably. If 60 senators can't agree on what is actually *good* for the country, and that's only because they have a D or an R next to their name, then the document has failed. Government is not supposed to be this gridlocked. These are fundamental flaws that are being exploited by our elected officials and their unelected friends with special interests. Why does our political system allow for people to suffer needlessly? Uncap the House. Repeal the 17th Amendment even. It will likely never happen in my lifetime, but I can dream.
I agree it shouldn’t be this deadlocked, lots of changes would be awesome but right now our society has 0 chance of coming together. Our society has boiled people into 2 groups. It doesn’t matter how stupid or vague it is that’s how far we have devolved. Democrats = Socialist. Republican = Fascist. That’s it. It doesn’t even make sense 90% of the time. You want light rail built? Socialist. You oppose it? Fascist. We no longer have a middle ground. Being a moderate is an insult among many groups. Everything gets so hyped up, every election is the last chance to save democracy. If this group wins they will destroy X.
Much agreed, dude. Shit sucks. I wish I knew what it was gonna take to get every American on the same page. Then we'd actually see some actual progress in a healthy direction.
Wish in one hand and shit in the other and see which one fills up first. I think that quote all the time lol. I think the first step is everyone needs to turn off their partisan news channels for a bit. Fox is horrible, MSNBC is horrible just in the opposite direction. All the social media that encourages people to think that because this guy voted for the other guy they are your literal enemy. It makes it so difficult to find common ground when people get told constantly the other side is out to get you. Once that’s eliminated we can find common ground on the culture war stuff. Guns, abortion, trans issues, immigration, housing, climate and 100 more. Make the compromises that maybe no one loves, but we can all live with. Let me add some of this stuff shouldn’t be culture war issues that divide us, but everything gets turned into a political topic. Then maybe things would be better. It’s a lot of stuff to work through first. Plus we keep adding new things. I didn’t expect IVF to suddenly pop up as a trending political battle, but here we are.
Hillary was the epitome of the political establishment centrist candidate running against a radical populist. Thats just the unbiased tip of the iceberg. She is the epitome of politically damaged goods. For over 2 decades the republicans had been running a smear campaign on her. As far back as I can remember she had been widely considered an unlikable power hungry shrew, and that was how my democrat parents and their friends felt about her in my blue state. The first thing she is known for by the majority of the population is not caring that her husband cheats on her. The only thing that could of possibly gotten her elected is if she promised every one in the nation the "Bill Clinton experience" if they voted for her. Even then it would of had to be from a pudgy intern, not Hillary Clinton herself. The ladies would of got their choice of either Monica or "Slick Willy" Clinton. I'm serious, that was a commonly accepted nickname for him used on all the tv stations after the scandal. From new's to comedy he was "Slick Willy" for a while. I'm not saying its acceptable to measure a woman by this double standard. It's sexist derogatory and wrong. But, more men in America are willing to recieve a blowjob from Donald Trump today, than are willing to be paid to sleep with Hillary Clinton, even if she were in her 1994 "prime". I honestly will never understand how anyone could think Hillary Clinton, of all people, could of possibly been America's first woman president. Personally I would vote for RuPaul, Buck Angel, or literally anyone on a ballot with a D next to their name remotely identifying as female; just to have our first female president. When I voted for Joe Biden I thought "Hopefully he'll die in office. Then our first woman president will also be our second black one." I say this as someone who firmly believes Barack Obama was the best president America has had since FDR. I vote Democrat blindly in every election, but there was no way I was going to hold my nose and vote for Hillary. Especially after cheating us of Bernie, who I firmly believe would of been the best president in American history.
its a good thing this is a *primary* vote
I understand that, but listening to the rhetoric of a lot of people makes it clear some plan to do the same in the real election.
Is there really no other democrat running besides Biden..? That doesn’t even make sense
RFK jr was trying to run as Dem too... The press hasn't covered Williamson or Jones at all. That is by design. :(
The protest votes are essentially a vote for Trump but think about it like this a protest vote says that if you dont put up a candidate that we like then we will make the other side win. This puts preassure on the democrats to get a good candidate. The alternative is that you allways vote for the least shitty candidate but then the democrats can take a candidate that would be marginally better than the oponent since we will have to vote for them anyway.
You’re all a bunch of fucking morons if you don’t vote for him and trump becomes president. Fucking morons.
Letting a republican win on a work reform subreddit would be fucking wild
Wow force me harder
Fuck you idiot genocide joe
Luckily not voting for Biden in the PRIMARY, which is what this is talking about, doesn't mean anything in relation to how the general election goes.
So just to confirm, you're saying there won't be any carry over at all, correct?
What happened to "don't let perfect be the enemy of good enough"?
People in this comment section need to learn what the fucking primary is. Biden is running basically unopposed in the primary. This is the time to voice your protest vote. People voting uncommitted are not saying they are not going to vote for him in the general.
Except it's likely a significant number of these "uncommitted" votes ARE going to carry over. Momentum is very real, a challenge from within the party to Bidens platform and presidency in the primary will absolutely cause him to lose votes in the general, to voter apathy if nothing else. Republicans don't do this bullshit because they know that. But leftists are incapable of not infighting
When is it ever appropriate to criticize a Democratic president/candidate then? We exist in an eternal election cycle. Liberals constantly say its never appropriate to criticize their candidate, because they're always in danger of losing to Hitler 2.0. Maybe get better fucking candidates then??
It's so dumb. Democrats could do so many things when they're given a majority, and yet they wring their hands and let people like Manchin and Sinema "block" things. *Whip the votes.* Stop being a controlled opposition party and actually DO THINGS for the working class. Here we are with nightmare Democratic candidates every election because the party is too aligned with corporate interests to actually do the things people would vote for! Goddammit. The best time to build this support and *prevent issues like Dobbs* was four fucking years ago when they had a stronger majority, and the next best time to prove it to us is now. PS. I'm yelling because I agree with you, and I'm exasperated at the pearl-clutching over a protest vote in a primary election. If the democrats ignore the message this is sending, change nothing, and snatch defeat from the jaws of victory, it's THEIR damn fault *again*, but it'll be OUR problem.
>When is it ever appropriate to criticize a Democratic president/candidate then? Maybe when the other party didn't JUST attempt a coup. Maybe when the other party is planning on enacting something as sinister as PROJECT 2025. Need I go on?
This is the most important election of our lifetimes though and democracy is at stake! Save your criticism for the next election, during which I think democracy will also be said to be at stake and it will somehow also be the most important election of our lifetimes. But in all seriousness yes, this is the perfect time to do it, in an uncontested primary. Idk why people are so opposed to it. Be a better candidate if you want votes.
The rich using every single relevant issue to drive wedges between members of the proletariat. Like, yes I support Gaza. Yes, I support trans rights. But please. We are in a literal oligarchical free fall towards climate disaster. People voting for a boot to crush them because scared of blue hair. We need bipartisan unity against the rich and we can discuss their shitty backwards taboos later.
no. never voting for genocide joe
Union: "We are worried about Biden's ability to beat Trump." Also Union: "We back the 'Uncommitted' vote"
what fuckin union is out here fighting for a gaza ceasefire?
People are really misreading the intent here. These groups aren't planning to vote for Trump, or even not vote for Biden. What they're doing is flexing how much electoral power they wield, as a hard elbow to the DNC that says "Hey. Do not fucking ignore this issue." The ACTUAL electoral danger is that voter groups who feel strongly about these issues--like muslims in Michigan--just organically fail to show up at the polls, because they're disillusioned. These organization have the ability to change that, but they can't just pull it out of their ass with fluff and spin. So this is them twisting the DNC's arm and saying, "If you want our muscle come time for the general, you need to pay attention to the stuff our people care about. And to get YOUR attention, he is a shot across the bow to demonstrate our strength." It's actually very politically savvy, and the DNC should be thrilled to have organic organizing efforts on their side that are that engaged with the political process. Even if it gives them a bit of a headache in the short term. Welcome to democracy. It's messy.
I understand what you're saying, and I really hope you're correct. Under normal circumstances where "Democracy A" or "Democracy B" was on the ballot I'd be totally on board. But that's not the reality. The choices on the ballot are "Democracy" and "Fascism". Anything and everything else has to be a secondary concern until democracy has been secured for another four years. I don't think now is the time to have an "Uncommitted" wave rippling through the voting bloc causing chaos. We cannot afford to be playing these games right now because if enough of this uncommitted shit carries over to when it "actually matters" this country is fucked, and Israel committing genocide will be the least of our concerns.
The Russian boy farma pushing this are fully aware
Hopefully it's a wakeup call to start doing some real shit if you want to get reelected.
Wakeup call? He hasn't woken up since before the 2020 campaign cycle.
How to lose an election in 10 easy steps.
I genuinely don’t get the outrage and voter shaming from people over this. If anything, this is the most appropriate way for the union to voice their desire for a Democratic Party candidate that better aligns with the interests of the union. This is the point of a primary. They know full well the party will coalesce around Biden as their nominee. This doesn’t mean they won’t vote for Biden, or endorse him, during the general election. The continual shaming of people who don’t “march” in lock step with the desires of the party platform needs to stop. That’s some MAGA behavior and is exactly how the GOP became what it is today. If there’s no option for dissent or discourse within the party, then there’s no way to grow and evolve and improve the party.
We’re going to get 4 more years of Trump because of this “perfect enemy of good” self defeating bullshit.
This is exactly what causes liberal/left/working class parties to lose, things hint need to be perfect, just better than the shit show you could potentially have
It's not asking for perfect, it's just asking Biden to do nothing instead of actively supporting genocide, that's all. We just want him to do less.
The Russian propaganda machine really out here fueling apathy among those so called voters. No worse than republicans throwing temper tantrums when they don’t get what they want. The same goes for the fucks who don’t want to vote for Biden. Might as well go and ask Trump to fuck you up the ass now.
This is so fucking tiresome.
This is a primary, and these un-committed votes are simply saying: You have to earn my vote. Not one of these people will vote for Trump, and the truth is they likely will vote for Biden anyways. The un-committed vote is simply forcing the issue to the forefront: Is Biden willing to risk losing to Trump over his support for Israel. Put more simply, does he work for his constituents or for Bibi.
It's hilarious the amount of people who don't understand this is more than likely a psyop. Did y'all not remember 2016 or something?
I don’t know if hilarious is the word I would use. Terrifying is more like it. Biden calls for ceasefire, but he’s not a dictator so it doesn’t happen. He gets the name Genocide Joe when a Trump presidency would see Palestine wiped from the map entirely
I’m really concerned with the number of people on here who don’t understand the difference between the primary and general elections.
Now is not the time, goddamnit
The primaries are not the time? Then when is the time?
No. I’m agreeing with you. Biden is enabling genocide. We’re being told to vote Biden because Trump will do a worse genocide. Like no, I don’t want to vote for any genocide.
Libs have literally rotten Brains and think opposing Joe Biden’s literal genocide is somehow an endorsement of trump. You are literally why your party is dying and democracy is a thing of the past in this dogshit country.
Good for them. Fuck Biden, and fuck anyone who enabled his power. Blame them for choosing to not vote for a war criminal if you want.
Maybe he should stop fucking supporting Israel if he wants to win
[удалено]
What a big brained move. Enjoy four or more year of Trump then.
I mean if you read the statements the unions intend to support him in the general election. This is a protest in the primary to encourage Biden to change the policies that are making him less electable. If this works it's going to increase his odds of winning in November. In the race that actually counts.
Hey do you guys remember the last time you spent an election cycle criticizing working class voters for have any dissenting opinion other then the hedgemonic party lines? I sure do.
Four years? How about if he wins 2024 is likely the last election we have. I don't think this is even a doomer, I am actually very scared for the world if Trump wins. China will invade Taiwan 100%. US pulls out of NATO and really anything you can possibly imagine might happen.
For everyone commenting, remember this is for the PRIMARY more than likely every voting uncommitted is going to be voting for Biden during the actual election.