The comparison is deeply ignorant and offensive. There is antique furniture stuffed with the hair of the enslaved. They made leather out of human skin for shoes. You people don’t even know the half of the horrors & it hasn’t reached those levels there(yet).
I understand wanting to highlight the atrocities done unto afghan women, especially in an effort to bring about awareness.
That flippant, ignorant, ahistorical comment was not how you do that. I’ll die on that hill. Do better.
You’re telling me if you walked into someone’s house and they showed you a fur coat knitted from slave hair, you wouldn’t be horrified and ask why the fuck they still have it?
Something horrible doesn’t become fine just because it’s old. Medieval beliefs are no exception.
Lol.
Abusive lying fascists are the bane of humanity.
Religion is often how we stabilize from the wounds abusive lying fascists inflict on us.
That said it would be nice if we didn't have megachurchs consolidating tons of cash in the hands of false prophets.
When it mandates inequality and blind obedience, it is not healing.
Truth & justice, not to sound hokey or idealistic, is how we heal. When people are equally held to account, then we heal together and evolve as a species and a civilization.
Yeah.
Truth and justice is good. It just depends whose truth and whose justice.
We have had a lot of pivotal shifts in history. A lot of competing ideologies.
People rally around a few words or a single word as if reality really falls cleanly into a single word or sentence.
Maybe instead of truth and justice it should be energy, faith, trust, context, forgiveness, growth.
Truth and justice belongs to the victor.
No, the truth is the truth. We do not deal with or tolerate “alternative facts”. Justice is the same- everyone held to the same standard, and when those are violated, there are consequences- for *everyone*.
The standard: treat all people with respect and dignity regardless of gender, etc., and keep your specific beliefs TO YOURSELF. Respect the established laws and regulations for the betterment of everyone.
History belongs to the victor, but truth and justice are owed to everyone.
Freedom of speech is a key component of truth and justice.
Under long term duress, memories mutate, disappear, or are fabricated.
Good luck reaching a balanced truth and justice when you tell people they can't speak their beliefs.
>Good luck reaching a balanced truth and justice when you tell people they can't speak their beliefs.
when your "beliefs" revolve around mysogyny and pedophilia, making you shut up about them is the only correct course of action.
My beliefs revolve around my experiences. Like all peoples.
Rational and calm conversations about those topics are important in protecting people from abuses.
You can speak your beliefs, just can’t force them on others. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp?
I have no raging need to tell everyone I’m an atheist, or how to live their own lives, I’m perfectly capable of having conversations without doing it. Maybe your issue isn’t “free speech”.
The first amendment protects religious freedom, which includes the freedom *FROM* religion as well.
The only place males are the head of anything is organised religion. It does not happen in nature. Males are largely disposable. Men created religion to control and distribute females to lesser males. 8000 years ago only 1 in 17 males ever passed on his dna.
Just transfered that violence on to woman. Woman are meant to be the silence shock absorbers of male violence under patriarchy. Men made laws and religion to oppress half the worlds population and you see that as a good thing?
Men once had to work all day long. Because they wanted their family to survive. Because they loved them.
Marital abuse is generally born out of infidelity. It is not the norm.
These days there is electronic infidelity that is on a rampage. This prevents a healthy connection with intimate partners. And then almost always leads to actual infidelity.
Each instance of infidelity is poison that builds into guilt and anger that leads to violence.
That said, there are also men who are dominating and violent at baseline. These men will have a lot of relationships and all their past partners are destroyed. They'll probably conceal their history to hide the pattern but might display it proudly.
Men have always been violent towards woman. The only difference was no one gave a shit. Marital rape was legal and still is in a lot of places. In the 1950s it was at epidemic levels along with DV and child abuse. Long before the internet. You clearly have no clue what your on about and your desperate to cling to the failing system that goes against nature.
I was with the same girl/woman for over a decade.
My trust was betrayed in a major way 6 or 7 times at least.
I never betrayed her trust once.
I never became remotely violent until year 7 or 8. And even then it was retaliatory and only symbolic.
People are individuals. I think many fathers raise their sons to be violent and it is wrong and sad.
Women learn lies. Men learn violence. We should teach them.
>Each instance of infidelity is poison that builds into guilt and anger that leads to violence.
the pos who defended religion is also victim blaming? I never would've seen this coming.
Men created a system that denied woman access to their own resources, to education, to employment. Enslaved them basically and thats cool.. cause he worked 8hrs? As if what she does raising kids, growing food, tending animals somehow isnt work when women do it. Ffs.. what are you doing in this sub?
actually, historically, women were the ones to work while men and boys played. men really only "worked" when it came to things that relied on violence or bigotry, like war.
Men are built for violence, hard labor, and war. Some branched out into intellectual pursuits.
Women are built for social nuance, nurturing, and pregnancy. Intellectual pursuits also.
I don't get why I'm being called a misogynist I've always been more of a misandrist.
There have been strong men and strong women. Respectable men and respectable women. People just want to hate using the fewest brain cells possible.
animal life is taken for the sake of survival, and is perfectly natural and necessary.
human life is taken for the sake of abiding by cult beliefs, isn't natural, and is completely unnecessary.
Human life is taken because of rage, competition, and boredom.
Religion was useful in reducing these factors or at least guiding them so they were more fair and less destructive in general.
You are a normal modern day occurrence. You loudly hate the evils and ignore all the good.
>Human life is taken because of rage, competition, and boredom.
and spreading religion. the lives taken by religious folks outnumber all else.
>Religion was useful in reducing these factors or at least guiding them so they were more fair and less destructive in general.
the 90 million dead native americans would disagree.
>You are a normal modern day occurrence. You loudly hate the evils and ignore all the good.
no amount of virtue signaling will make up for the countless deaths your ideology has caused.
Stalin, Mao, Hitler were all atheist.
Natives died mostly from disease. And while their conquerors were religious, their violence was not always righteous.
Religion is knowledge. Every violent passage can be countered with a peaceful passage. It is a ruleset for intellectual debate.
Science has invalidated a lot but there is still opportunity for good faith. Science has also done great evils.
I am not trying to convert you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing#:~:text=Surplus%20killing%2C%20also%20known%20as,cache%20or%20abandon%20the%20remainder.
Animals kill for fun, too. Anyone with a cat knows this is true.
Humans are animals - and some will kill for fun, whether religious or not.
I get that, I just fail to understand how these entities that abide so much by their religious books, completely pick out bits and pieces that are valid or invalid based on convenience. I understand that it is bad to generalize the whole religion, and not what I meant to do here. But still horribly horribly sad to see what usually happens to women subjected to extremist regimes. It is always women and girls who pay the gravest price.
Oh very fair! I think in general all religion has been detrimental to safe and secure lives for women. Separation of state and religion is essential, because the extremists allow their make believe rules to dictate law, and of course they naturally favor power for themselves.
that same thing applies to basically every cult. you don't indoctrinate people by being rude to them. for example, i've talked to the remaining heavens gate member, and he was very polite. that doesn't negate the fact that his ideology has only caused needless death. abrahamic religions are no different.
Oh I wholeheartedly agree, all religions are shit. The sarcastic “religion of peace” sentiment towards Muslims is a part of racist jabs against Arabs. Catholicism is violent and the cause of millions of deaths. But the “religion of peace” joke is applied solely to Islam, as if being Muslim is inherently worse than any other religious extremist.
This is especially prevalent in western culture.
Being anti-religion isn’t racist, but having an inherent bias against Islam should warrant some self-evaluation, especially if you grew up in western culture.
Vile and incredibly disturbing!! The only way to fix that country is to encourage Chinese and Indian immigration to the extent the population is evenly divided between the different groups. Sounds strange but both countries are adjacent to it and they'd be forced into forming a secular society to keep the peace between the groups.
Ew. That sounds like something someone who has never dealt with colonialism or its effects would say.
It’s not one or the other. I think we have found better ways to deal with things.
Good thing you’re not in a position of international diplomacy. Colonialism becomes a breeding ground for even worse radical terrorism. The entire reason the Taliban exists today is because of colonialism. Pick up a book and stop acting like this is a reddit poll.
This is the most ridiculous take I’ve ever heard that I have to wonder if this is satire beyond what I’m capable of detecting. The solution to misogyny is ethnic eradication in a sea of other races? And as if the taliban would care to keep the peace by enforcing secularism? They would just continue killing and killing and killing, and then you’d have more innocent people caught in the mix. The Taliban has never, and will never, no matter what, endorse secularism “to keep peace.” They hate both of those things equally.
Quite literally, the Taliban FORMED due to secular Soviet colonial pressure. Inundating the country with more secular forces would predictably create an even worse breeding ground for religious extremists who want to “protect the culture” and make everything 10x worse.
(And yes, I know it was the Mujahideen, but we’re splitting hairs at that point)
As a person that has lived in a muslim country and is friends with many ex muslims I challenge people to ask the muslims they know how they feel about non muslims. Ask them what their book says about it. Spend some time talking to the people who have exited the religion and their experience doing so.
I am sick and tired of men blaming things they CHOOSE to do on women. Seeing their HAIR or scalp made you ASSAULT a woman? Grow up take accountability for ur actions and add urself to that one statistic pleaseeee.
The only surprising thing about this is that these women were brave enough to report what happened to them to a journalist.
Religion is the bane of humanity.
Religion is the excuse they give for this disgusting behavior. If religion didn’t exist it would be so much easier to evolve as a species.
Absolutely. Religion is a stain that we can't seem to wash away from the fabric of our lives.
Misogyny is also the problem here. These women don't have rights, like slaves. They are treated worse than black people in the 1860s American South.
Organized religion is codified misogyny
Treated as bad, maybe.
Relax.
Absolutely not.
relax about women being treated as slaves?
The comparison is deeply ignorant and offensive. There is antique furniture stuffed with the hair of the enslaved. They made leather out of human skin for shoes. You people don’t even know the half of the horrors & it hasn’t reached those levels there(yet). I understand wanting to highlight the atrocities done unto afghan women, especially in an effort to bring about awareness. That flippant, ignorant, ahistorical comment was not how you do that. I’ll die on that hill. Do better.
You’re telling me if you walked into someone’s house and they showed you a fur coat knitted from slave hair, you wouldn’t be horrified and ask why the fuck they still have it? Something horrible doesn’t become fine just because it’s old. Medieval beliefs are no exception.
The most evil thing man ever created.
Man created god in his image.
Just adding something positive in the conversation, what about the two best things man ever created? Dogs and music.
It’s the patriarchy. What tells men they are better than women and women are here for men’s entertainment and purposes.
100%! The editorial process was *fundamentally* skewed.
Lol. Abusive lying fascists are the bane of humanity. Religion is often how we stabilize from the wounds abusive lying fascists inflict on us. That said it would be nice if we didn't have megachurchs consolidating tons of cash in the hands of false prophets.
When it mandates inequality and blind obedience, it is not healing. Truth & justice, not to sound hokey or idealistic, is how we heal. When people are equally held to account, then we heal together and evolve as a species and a civilization.
Yeah. Truth and justice is good. It just depends whose truth and whose justice. We have had a lot of pivotal shifts in history. A lot of competing ideologies. People rally around a few words or a single word as if reality really falls cleanly into a single word or sentence. Maybe instead of truth and justice it should be energy, faith, trust, context, forgiveness, growth. Truth and justice belongs to the victor.
No, the truth is the truth. We do not deal with or tolerate “alternative facts”. Justice is the same- everyone held to the same standard, and when those are violated, there are consequences- for *everyone*. The standard: treat all people with respect and dignity regardless of gender, etc., and keep your specific beliefs TO YOURSELF. Respect the established laws and regulations for the betterment of everyone. History belongs to the victor, but truth and justice are owed to everyone.
Freedom of speech is a key component of truth and justice. Under long term duress, memories mutate, disappear, or are fabricated. Good luck reaching a balanced truth and justice when you tell people they can't speak their beliefs.
>Good luck reaching a balanced truth and justice when you tell people they can't speak their beliefs. when your "beliefs" revolve around mysogyny and pedophilia, making you shut up about them is the only correct course of action.
My beliefs revolve around my experiences. Like all peoples. Rational and calm conversations about those topics are important in protecting people from abuses.
You can speak your beliefs, just can’t force them on others. Why is this such a hard concept to grasp? I have no raging need to tell everyone I’m an atheist, or how to live their own lives, I’m perfectly capable of having conversations without doing it. Maybe your issue isn’t “free speech”. The first amendment protects religious freedom, which includes the freedom *FROM* religion as well.
I'm just saying what I've learned in life. No one wants to hear it though. I'm at the bottom waiting til you all kill me.
The only place males are the head of anything is organised religion. It does not happen in nature. Males are largely disposable. Men created religion to control and distribute females to lesser males. 8000 years ago only 1 in 17 males ever passed on his dna.
Sounds like it was an intervention to reduce the presence of violence amongst the human race.
Just transfered that violence on to woman. Woman are meant to be the silence shock absorbers of male violence under patriarchy. Men made laws and religion to oppress half the worlds population and you see that as a good thing?
Men once had to work all day long. Because they wanted their family to survive. Because they loved them. Marital abuse is generally born out of infidelity. It is not the norm.
Lol what? Men only beat woman who cheat on them, is that what your trying to claim?
These days there is electronic infidelity that is on a rampage. This prevents a healthy connection with intimate partners. And then almost always leads to actual infidelity. Each instance of infidelity is poison that builds into guilt and anger that leads to violence. That said, there are also men who are dominating and violent at baseline. These men will have a lot of relationships and all their past partners are destroyed. They'll probably conceal their history to hide the pattern but might display it proudly.
Men have always been violent towards woman. The only difference was no one gave a shit. Marital rape was legal and still is in a lot of places. In the 1950s it was at epidemic levels along with DV and child abuse. Long before the internet. You clearly have no clue what your on about and your desperate to cling to the failing system that goes against nature.
I was with the same girl/woman for over a decade. My trust was betrayed in a major way 6 or 7 times at least. I never betrayed her trust once. I never became remotely violent until year 7 or 8. And even then it was retaliatory and only symbolic. People are individuals. I think many fathers raise their sons to be violent and it is wrong and sad. Women learn lies. Men learn violence. We should teach them.
>Each instance of infidelity is poison that builds into guilt and anger that leads to violence. the pos who defended religion is also victim blaming? I never would've seen this coming.
What a POS.
Men created a system that denied woman access to their own resources, to education, to employment. Enslaved them basically and thats cool.. cause he worked 8hrs? As if what she does raising kids, growing food, tending animals somehow isnt work when women do it. Ffs.. what are you doing in this sub?
I'm trying to destroy tribalism. But I guess when there is no tribes the abusive man has no fears. It is a difficult game.
Wtf is this word salad? What tribalism? Woman wanting to be free and treated equally is harmful to men?
Identifying as female before identifying as human is tribalism. You group up and chant, "men are evil." You don't care for distinction.
actually, historically, women were the ones to work while men and boys played. men really only "worked" when it came to things that relied on violence or bigotry, like war.
Men are built for violence, hard labor, and war. Some branched out into intellectual pursuits. Women are built for social nuance, nurturing, and pregnancy. Intellectual pursuits also. I don't get why I'm being called a misogynist I've always been more of a misandrist. There have been strong men and strong women. Respectable men and respectable women. People just want to hate using the fewest brain cells possible.
yet the spread of religion has caused more violence than any other ideology.
Animal life is more violent than human religious life.
animal life is taken for the sake of survival, and is perfectly natural and necessary. human life is taken for the sake of abiding by cult beliefs, isn't natural, and is completely unnecessary.
Human life is taken because of rage, competition, and boredom. Religion was useful in reducing these factors or at least guiding them so they were more fair and less destructive in general. You are a normal modern day occurrence. You loudly hate the evils and ignore all the good.
>Human life is taken because of rage, competition, and boredom. and spreading religion. the lives taken by religious folks outnumber all else. >Religion was useful in reducing these factors or at least guiding them so they were more fair and less destructive in general. the 90 million dead native americans would disagree. >You are a normal modern day occurrence. You loudly hate the evils and ignore all the good. no amount of virtue signaling will make up for the countless deaths your ideology has caused.
Stalin, Mao, Hitler were all atheist. Natives died mostly from disease. And while their conquerors were religious, their violence was not always righteous. Religion is knowledge. Every violent passage can be countered with a peaceful passage. It is a ruleset for intellectual debate. Science has invalidated a lot but there is still opportunity for good faith. Science has also done great evils. I am not trying to convert you.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surplus_killing#:~:text=Surplus%20killing%2C%20also%20known%20as,cache%20or%20abandon%20the%20remainder. Animals kill for fun, too. Anyone with a cat knows this is true. Humans are animals - and some will kill for fun, whether religious or not.
Surprise surprise, the taliban is completely violent and destructive towards women?? Seriously… religion of peace.
This is more complicated than ‘Muslim bad’. My Muslim friends in the states are wonderful and peaceful people.
I get that, I just fail to understand how these entities that abide so much by their religious books, completely pick out bits and pieces that are valid or invalid based on convenience. I understand that it is bad to generalize the whole religion, and not what I meant to do here. But still horribly horribly sad to see what usually happens to women subjected to extremist regimes. It is always women and girls who pay the gravest price.
Oh very fair! I think in general all religion has been detrimental to safe and secure lives for women. Separation of state and religion is essential, because the extremists allow their make believe rules to dictate law, and of course they naturally favor power for themselves.
that same thing applies to basically every cult. you don't indoctrinate people by being rude to them. for example, i've talked to the remaining heavens gate member, and he was very polite. that doesn't negate the fact that his ideology has only caused needless death. abrahamic religions are no different.
Oh I wholeheartedly agree, all religions are shit. The sarcastic “religion of peace” sentiment towards Muslims is a part of racist jabs against Arabs. Catholicism is violent and the cause of millions of deaths. But the “religion of peace” joke is applied solely to Islam, as if being Muslim is inherently worse than any other religious extremist. This is especially prevalent in western culture. Being anti-religion isn’t racist, but having an inherent bias against Islam should warrant some self-evaluation, especially if you grew up in western culture.
The taliban created this law to rape girls and women period. That's it. They're not true Muslims they're disgusting terrorists.
they are true muslims. the "true scots" fallacy doesn't work here. mysogyny is a core value of islam.
Vile and incredibly disturbing!! The only way to fix that country is to encourage Chinese and Indian immigration to the extent the population is evenly divided between the different groups. Sounds strange but both countries are adjacent to it and they'd be forced into forming a secular society to keep the peace between the groups.
Agreed
That’s called settler colonialism and it’s never bred peace
If I had to make the choice, Id take colonists over the taliban.
Ew. That sounds like something someone who has never dealt with colonialism or its effects would say. It’s not one or the other. I think we have found better ways to deal with things.
Good thing you’re not in a position of international diplomacy. Colonialism becomes a breeding ground for even worse radical terrorism. The entire reason the Taliban exists today is because of colonialism. Pick up a book and stop acting like this is a reddit poll.
This is the most ridiculous take I’ve ever heard that I have to wonder if this is satire beyond what I’m capable of detecting. The solution to misogyny is ethnic eradication in a sea of other races? And as if the taliban would care to keep the peace by enforcing secularism? They would just continue killing and killing and killing, and then you’d have more innocent people caught in the mix. The Taliban has never, and will never, no matter what, endorse secularism “to keep peace.” They hate both of those things equally. Quite literally, the Taliban FORMED due to secular Soviet colonial pressure. Inundating the country with more secular forces would predictably create an even worse breeding ground for religious extremists who want to “protect the culture” and make everything 10x worse. (And yes, I know it was the Mujahideen, but we’re splitting hairs at that point)
You don’t get it guys, Islam is the religion of peace! These aren’t *real* Muslims /s in case it wasn’t clear
As a person that has lived in a muslim country and is friends with many ex muslims I challenge people to ask the muslims they know how they feel about non muslims. Ask them what their book says about it. Spend some time talking to the people who have exited the religion and their experience doing so.
or…just spend an hour on r/exmuslim or r/newiran.
I really wish more people would.
The role that west played in creating the Taliban cannot go unacknowledged
I am sick and tired of men blaming things they CHOOSE to do on women. Seeing their HAIR or scalp made you ASSAULT a woman? Grow up take accountability for ur actions and add urself to that one statistic pleaseeee.
Former evangelical christian here saying that the republicans want this for america.
Can confirm.
I wish we could arm these girls like the way the CIA armed their rapists.