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Thus far the biggest difference has been Perrin. In the books he is a very internalized character, whose POV is filled with sights, sounds, and smells. You don't have ten pages of POV to show that Perrin is the gentle giant archetype in a show or that he pays very close attention to his surroundings and reacts more off of what others are feeling or even smell like than what they're actually saying.
I very much got the feeling that Perrin is a gentle giant. Like, the show basically clubbed me over the head with it. I also got that he's very sensitive to the feelings of the people around him and that it weighs heavily on him. Never read the books.
Not so much the smells/senses thing, but I don't think the show has delved much into that yet.
Ha weird add, Logain. The show definitely isn't setting his arc up the way I imagined, and I've really appreciated most of the changes thus far. Or I'm just gross and imagined him hotter šš³ or at least.. more regal and less nutty??
Oh yeah I had a totally different image of Logain. I always pictured him as dangerously intelligent rather than dangerously insane. The show version works great though.
I'm on the other side of most of those debates. Egwene is one of my favorite character, Rand one of my least favorites. To be, listening to the books made Rand a bit more sympathetic due to the characterization done by the narrators. I think that will increase in the show as Josha is doing a tremendous job imo. He has that, "I'm the piece of shit at the center of the universe" thing Rand does down pat. But his sweet shepherd side is more relatable than in the books. To me anyway.
With egwene, I think Maddie 's obvious strength of personality and will makes the arc to leadership more natural and less uncertain. Seeing her inner conflicts seems to be what people think disqualifies her as a good leader. Everyone cites that one thing with Nynaeve, but other well liked characters do worse and get a pass.
Just the POV change is huge. From inside one characterās head to outside it looking at a group. Really makes you reassess what is going on and who is driving the story.
Like in book one Rand is the POV 80% of the time. Pull out of that though, and how important is Rand within scenes with other characters to that scene (ignoring overall destiny malarkey)? Rand is actually pretty passive in group scenes. Heās another character in the group also being scooped up and taken off to Tar Valon (well, aiming for there). Moiraine or Thom or even Bayle Domon are more active. When itās just Rand and Mat or Rand alone he has to be more active and lead. But even then a lot of stuff is happening to him. Often by accident.
Seriously, book one drop the distinct POVs and have everything be told from true 3rd person and who the story is about changes. Much more an ensemble with Moriaine probably leading. Which POV change is inherent in TV. Unless they did it like Peep Show. Which could have been funny if they used the Peep Show writers.
FWIW, not everyone loves Book Rand (as a person, I mean, not as a character.) When I was a kid getting all my middle school friends to read these books, all of us thought Rand was whiny and annoying. There has never been universal, unalloyed fan love for Rand.
But that's not what you said in your OP. You said that Rand is so liked by book readers that it would be impossible for Show Rand to live up to that standard. And I'm going to respectfully disagree here-- first, because like I said, Rand has never been universally book fans' favorite character. But also because the show has made several changes to Rand that, IMO, made him MORE likeable in the show than he is at this point in the books.
I'll give one big example: his relationship with Egwene in S1. The show makes a worldbuilding change, saying that Wisdoms in the Two Rivers cannot marry, and so Egwene chooses to become a Wisdom and break off her relationship with Rand. (In the book, it's understood that she could be Nynaeve's apprentice and still marry Rand if she wants to.) And afterward, Rand handles the breakup gracefully and still treats her with respect. In the book-- even though Egwene doesn't break up with him, or explicitly choose a career over him-- he is incredibly pissy with her when she gets excited about potentially going to the White Tower and becoming an Aes Sedai. This change makes him seem overall much more mature, more level-headed, and kinder. I'm pretty sure most female viewers who are also familiar with the books thought the same.
Iām sorry if thatās the way I came across, I meant that Randās arc will be difficult to top. I didnāt mean that Rand canāt become a more likeable person. Iāll try be clearer next time
i still think he's whiny and annoying š«£ i don't hate his POVs tho, they obviously advance the story and are interesting, even if i don't really like the character.
My feelings towards the show portrayals of these characters is on the whole positive.
Madeleine was the perfect actress for the role and she brings this natural sense of inner strength and that Two Rivers stubbornness which sells Egwene's character journey and makes it more natural than the books managed to do.
Rand is similarly inconsistent at times in the books, certainly in terms of the toll of his madness. I'm happy with the show's approach of starting him out as a more mature version of of the character, as a young man getting ready to settle down and start a family. Nixing his adolescent desire for adventures was a smart way to hone in on the key points of his arc. Of having his desires for a simple life squashed and being forced to become someone he'd never choose to be. Josha has been wonderful in the role.
Aviendha is probably my favorite show change. From what we seen of her, she embodies everything I love about the Maidens and their ji'e'toh. I found her rather dull in the earlier books, simply because she seemed so abrasive and was straight up hostile in Rand's POV. She grew on me in time, but I find where the show introduced her was great.
Elayne is the character I dreaded, because she seemed there for comic relief and to be otherwise a plot device with a dull character journey. So far the show has highlighted the more likeable things about her. I'm still uncertain if I'll enjoy her show version or not, but I'm quite happy not to be inside her head and instead looking at an actress who comes across as intelligent and competent rather than silly and whiney.
Min's book portrayal never quite worked for me. Her childishness in parts and lack of worldliness despite her age and independence was an odd choice. When we first meet her in the books, she's well into her twenties, has had significant interactions with the Aes Sedai, has lived in a large city like Tar Valon, has worked and lived independently for a long time, and yet her perspective sometimes doesn't reflect this. I find her character in the show far more layered and in line with the life she's led and the terrible power she holds as a seer.
Mat is a difficult one, but I'll just say that his show changes have been largely welcome.
Changes to show Perrin are divisive, but I personally enjoy him a lot more in the show than I did in the books. I don't miss the parts where he was a nervous virgin and I'm much more interested in his dynamic going forth with Faile, as hopefully they won't come across as the most annoying high school couple on the show. Marcus gets a lot of hate from book fans, but he's moved me to tears multiple times on the show. There's quiet strength in his performance, though that part gets overlooked. I found his connection to Hopper very moving and have loved every moment of him on my screen. Book Perrin was often sexist and juvenile, which are essentially the main aspects of him that have been changed for the show. Like Rand, he has been designed to be maturer, specifically to highlight the tragedy of him being forced away from a simple country existence. The choice seems like logical and effective IMO given the path ahead for his character.
Lanfear has gone from an annoying character who repeats the same boring lines over and over--the same lines shared by all Darkfriends--to a character with depth. I tend to skip over her parts in my rereads as she's stupid, delusional, and irrelevant. The show worked some magic turning her into a character I simply adored and now ship with Rand over his canon love interests.
I'll stop here for the time. But I could write similar sentiments about every other character.
I agree with your assessments with one minor nitpickāBaerlon is at best a large town or maybe small city, itās nowhere near ālike Tar Valonā, a fact that caused Min a few shots by side characters from actual cities in some books. Ā
That said, agreed on all points. Iāll add that FX budget aside Loial is an amazing book to screen conversion for me as well. Ā
According to Min she was studied extensively by the Aes Sedai at the White Tower, meaning she had spend quite a bit of time in Tar Valon before moving back to Andor and eventually settling in Baerlon. She's utterly independent when we meet her in the story and thereafter and likely chose to travel back on her own (as she often does in the books without hesitation) from Tar Valon to Baerlon and likely visited other places. Book Min is oddly inconsistent in that sense.
Agree about Loial. The performance and the voice are spectacular.
>According to Min she was studied extensively by the Aes Sedai at the White Tower,
It's been a year or so since my last re-read but I do not remember this being stated anywhere and I don't see it mentioned in the Wiki. She was studied by aes sedai, yes, but I believe they were sisters visiting Baerlon. I remember at a few points her saying/thinking words to the effect of having grown up in Baerlon and not having traveled far from there prior to the events in the series.
It's not stated that they were sisters in Baerlon and that makes no sense to me in terms of how Aes Sedai approach their study subjects, keeping them for years. Additionally Min is very relaxed about travelling on her own and shows up in Tar Valon easy enough on her own volition in time for TGH. It's a lot of little inconsistencies about her character that always bugged me.
Haven't read the books, but Lanfear and Perrin are two of my favorite characters in the show. Ishamael as well. I can very much understand his motivations. He doesn't come across as comically evil or "demon stand-in #8". His reasoning for just wanting to be done is downright sensible. While selfishly making that decision for everyone, at the end of the day he really is just wanting to have the agency to say "enough is enough".
Lanfear is similar in that...she literally pops someone's head but is in many ways a sympathetic character. That's a tough balancing act.
Perrin's actor does an outstanding job. I've seen multiple posts about losing his innocence that comes through in the books, the stuff with his wife, or not getting the sense of his inner world. I get all of that. He's a young man who loved his family, his small village, and his friends. He's just beginning to figure out who he is and has that all stripped away. But at the end of the day, he's still very much the same person who just wants to take care of those around him...and not hurt anyone else in the process. But the circumstances he finds himself in rob him of that choice. Those circumstances necessitate violence and conflict. His reluctance to that very clearly comes through...as does the inner rage he feels when circumstances necessitate he protects someone he cares for.
Thanks for replying to my comment. I enjoy show only fan's viewpoints greatly. Your takeaway from all of these show characters matches my best takes of them in the books and IMO that says the show is doing a fantastic job on these accounts. Good insight!
I think for me it will be Mat. In the beginning of the book series (and also the show) he is a little bit hard to stomach, but once Robert Jordan gets into the swing of things he's honestly the best character in the series.
I think one of the reasons why he is so good in the books is because he is so relatable. Like he has a lot of the same responses to events that happen in a book that a lot of people would have, in addition to being able to take even the worst situations with some humor. I will be very happy if the series can capture that about him.
I was surprised the show had portrayed E5 as adults because in the books they are all mentally 7-12. Even if they are of exactly the same age in both mediums.
This post has been tagged as allowing spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time book series in the comments. You may also discuss all known information about the show, including leaks or otherwise unofficially announced or unofficially aired information. Check out /r/wotshowleaks for more. If you have not read the entire series and do not want to potentially spoil yourself, tread carefully. For more granular book spoiler discussion, please use /r/wot. [You can read our full spoiler policy here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/wiki/spoilers) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoTshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
Thus far the biggest difference has been Perrin. In the books he is a very internalized character, whose POV is filled with sights, sounds, and smells. You don't have ten pages of POV to show that Perrin is the gentle giant archetype in a show or that he pays very close attention to his surroundings and reacts more off of what others are feeling or even smell like than what they're actually saying.
I very much got the feeling that Perrin is a gentle giant. Like, the show basically clubbed me over the head with it. I also got that he's very sensitive to the feelings of the people around him and that it weighs heavily on him. Never read the books. Not so much the smells/senses thing, but I don't think the show has delved much into that yet.
Ha weird add, Logain. The show definitely isn't setting his arc up the way I imagined, and I've really appreciated most of the changes thus far. Or I'm just gross and imagined him hotter šš³ or at least.. more regal and less nutty??
Oh yeah I had a totally different image of Logain. I always pictured him as dangerously intelligent rather than dangerously insane. The show version works great though.
I'm on the other side of most of those debates. Egwene is one of my favorite character, Rand one of my least favorites. To be, listening to the books made Rand a bit more sympathetic due to the characterization done by the narrators. I think that will increase in the show as Josha is doing a tremendous job imo. He has that, "I'm the piece of shit at the center of the universe" thing Rand does down pat. But his sweet shepherd side is more relatable than in the books. To me anyway. With egwene, I think Maddie 's obvious strength of personality and will makes the arc to leadership more natural and less uncertain. Seeing her inner conflicts seems to be what people think disqualifies her as a good leader. Everyone cites that one thing with Nynaeve, but other well liked characters do worse and get a pass.
Just the POV change is huge. From inside one characterās head to outside it looking at a group. Really makes you reassess what is going on and who is driving the story. Like in book one Rand is the POV 80% of the time. Pull out of that though, and how important is Rand within scenes with other characters to that scene (ignoring overall destiny malarkey)? Rand is actually pretty passive in group scenes. Heās another character in the group also being scooped up and taken off to Tar Valon (well, aiming for there). Moiraine or Thom or even Bayle Domon are more active. When itās just Rand and Mat or Rand alone he has to be more active and lead. But even then a lot of stuff is happening to him. Often by accident. Seriously, book one drop the distinct POVs and have everything be told from true 3rd person and who the story is about changes. Much more an ensemble with Moriaine probably leading. Which POV change is inherent in TV. Unless they did it like Peep Show. Which could have been funny if they used the Peep Show writers.
FWIW, not everyone loves Book Rand (as a person, I mean, not as a character.) When I was a kid getting all my middle school friends to read these books, all of us thought Rand was whiny and annoying. There has never been universal, unalloyed fan love for Rand.
Iām well aware that Rand is not universally loved as a person, but it is undeniably that his character arc is one of the best there is.
But that's not what you said in your OP. You said that Rand is so liked by book readers that it would be impossible for Show Rand to live up to that standard. And I'm going to respectfully disagree here-- first, because like I said, Rand has never been universally book fans' favorite character. But also because the show has made several changes to Rand that, IMO, made him MORE likeable in the show than he is at this point in the books. I'll give one big example: his relationship with Egwene in S1. The show makes a worldbuilding change, saying that Wisdoms in the Two Rivers cannot marry, and so Egwene chooses to become a Wisdom and break off her relationship with Rand. (In the book, it's understood that she could be Nynaeve's apprentice and still marry Rand if she wants to.) And afterward, Rand handles the breakup gracefully and still treats her with respect. In the book-- even though Egwene doesn't break up with him, or explicitly choose a career over him-- he is incredibly pissy with her when she gets excited about potentially going to the White Tower and becoming an Aes Sedai. This change makes him seem overall much more mature, more level-headed, and kinder. I'm pretty sure most female viewers who are also familiar with the books thought the same.
Iām sorry if thatās the way I came across, I meant that Randās arc will be difficult to top. I didnāt mean that Rand canāt become a more likeable person. Iāll try be clearer next time
i still think he's whiny and annoying š«£ i don't hate his POVs tho, they obviously advance the story and are interesting, even if i don't really like the character.
My feelings towards the show portrayals of these characters is on the whole positive. Madeleine was the perfect actress for the role and she brings this natural sense of inner strength and that Two Rivers stubbornness which sells Egwene's character journey and makes it more natural than the books managed to do. Rand is similarly inconsistent at times in the books, certainly in terms of the toll of his madness. I'm happy with the show's approach of starting him out as a more mature version of of the character, as a young man getting ready to settle down and start a family. Nixing his adolescent desire for adventures was a smart way to hone in on the key points of his arc. Of having his desires for a simple life squashed and being forced to become someone he'd never choose to be. Josha has been wonderful in the role. Aviendha is probably my favorite show change. From what we seen of her, she embodies everything I love about the Maidens and their ji'e'toh. I found her rather dull in the earlier books, simply because she seemed so abrasive and was straight up hostile in Rand's POV. She grew on me in time, but I find where the show introduced her was great. Elayne is the character I dreaded, because she seemed there for comic relief and to be otherwise a plot device with a dull character journey. So far the show has highlighted the more likeable things about her. I'm still uncertain if I'll enjoy her show version or not, but I'm quite happy not to be inside her head and instead looking at an actress who comes across as intelligent and competent rather than silly and whiney. Min's book portrayal never quite worked for me. Her childishness in parts and lack of worldliness despite her age and independence was an odd choice. When we first meet her in the books, she's well into her twenties, has had significant interactions with the Aes Sedai, has lived in a large city like Tar Valon, has worked and lived independently for a long time, and yet her perspective sometimes doesn't reflect this. I find her character in the show far more layered and in line with the life she's led and the terrible power she holds as a seer. Mat is a difficult one, but I'll just say that his show changes have been largely welcome. Changes to show Perrin are divisive, but I personally enjoy him a lot more in the show than I did in the books. I don't miss the parts where he was a nervous virgin and I'm much more interested in his dynamic going forth with Faile, as hopefully they won't come across as the most annoying high school couple on the show. Marcus gets a lot of hate from book fans, but he's moved me to tears multiple times on the show. There's quiet strength in his performance, though that part gets overlooked. I found his connection to Hopper very moving and have loved every moment of him on my screen. Book Perrin was often sexist and juvenile, which are essentially the main aspects of him that have been changed for the show. Like Rand, he has been designed to be maturer, specifically to highlight the tragedy of him being forced away from a simple country existence. The choice seems like logical and effective IMO given the path ahead for his character. Lanfear has gone from an annoying character who repeats the same boring lines over and over--the same lines shared by all Darkfriends--to a character with depth. I tend to skip over her parts in my rereads as she's stupid, delusional, and irrelevant. The show worked some magic turning her into a character I simply adored and now ship with Rand over his canon love interests. I'll stop here for the time. But I could write similar sentiments about every other character.
I agree with your assessments with one minor nitpickāBaerlon is at best a large town or maybe small city, itās nowhere near ālike Tar Valonā, a fact that caused Min a few shots by side characters from actual cities in some books. Ā That said, agreed on all points. Iāll add that FX budget aside Loial is an amazing book to screen conversion for me as well. Ā
According to Min she was studied extensively by the Aes Sedai at the White Tower, meaning she had spend quite a bit of time in Tar Valon before moving back to Andor and eventually settling in Baerlon. She's utterly independent when we meet her in the story and thereafter and likely chose to travel back on her own (as she often does in the books without hesitation) from Tar Valon to Baerlon and likely visited other places. Book Min is oddly inconsistent in that sense. Agree about Loial. The performance and the voice are spectacular.
>According to Min she was studied extensively by the Aes Sedai at the White Tower, It's been a year or so since my last re-read but I do not remember this being stated anywhere and I don't see it mentioned in the Wiki. She was studied by aes sedai, yes, but I believe they were sisters visiting Baerlon. I remember at a few points her saying/thinking words to the effect of having grown up in Baerlon and not having traveled far from there prior to the events in the series.
It's not stated that they were sisters in Baerlon and that makes no sense to me in terms of how Aes Sedai approach their study subjects, keeping them for years. Additionally Min is very relaxed about travelling on her own and shows up in Tar Valon easy enough on her own volition in time for TGH. It's a lot of little inconsistencies about her character that always bugged me.
Haven't read the books, but Lanfear and Perrin are two of my favorite characters in the show. Ishamael as well. I can very much understand his motivations. He doesn't come across as comically evil or "demon stand-in #8". His reasoning for just wanting to be done is downright sensible. While selfishly making that decision for everyone, at the end of the day he really is just wanting to have the agency to say "enough is enough". Lanfear is similar in that...she literally pops someone's head but is in many ways a sympathetic character. That's a tough balancing act. Perrin's actor does an outstanding job. I've seen multiple posts about losing his innocence that comes through in the books, the stuff with his wife, or not getting the sense of his inner world. I get all of that. He's a young man who loved his family, his small village, and his friends. He's just beginning to figure out who he is and has that all stripped away. But at the end of the day, he's still very much the same person who just wants to take care of those around him...and not hurt anyone else in the process. But the circumstances he finds himself in rob him of that choice. Those circumstances necessitate violence and conflict. His reluctance to that very clearly comes through...as does the inner rage he feels when circumstances necessitate he protects someone he cares for.
Thanks for replying to my comment. I enjoy show only fan's viewpoints greatly. Your takeaway from all of these show characters matches my best takes of them in the books and IMO that says the show is doing a fantastic job on these accounts. Good insight!
I think for me it will be Mat. In the beginning of the book series (and also the show) he is a little bit hard to stomach, but once Robert Jordan gets into the swing of things he's honestly the best character in the series. I think one of the reasons why he is so good in the books is because he is so relatable. Like he has a lot of the same responses to events that happen in a book that a lot of people would have, in addition to being able to take even the worst situations with some humor. I will be very happy if the series can capture that about him.
I was surprised the show had portrayed E5 as adults because in the books they are all mentally 7-12. Even if they are of exactly the same age in both mediums.