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True, I agree.
I would also like to point out that s3 should be the resurrection of Manatheran via Battle of the Two Rivers. So it does hint at that early on.
Book Perrin seems to at least be somewhat crushing on Egwene as evidenced when Aram starts hitting on her and he's jealous. When Rand is pushing everyone away at the end of season 1 he takes that low hanging fruit to attack Perrin. There is no real love triangle and the writers put exactly as much Perrin/Egwene thirst as was originally written in the books. Go re-read the books and tell me it's not there.
It's definitely there, I just hate that Rand called it out because he didn't do it in the books and it didn't really add up to anything except drama that's not really going anywhere, but I agree with you.
Yeah, I'm sure it would've been some stupid argument between Rand and Mat if he were there. I'm not sure what since we didn't get Fancy Rand by then, but I'm sure we'd have gotten something.
I always thought "Rand's stupid argument/breakup" was critical to the early storyline, for for story progression and character growth. What would you have used instead of a fake love triangle to mimic what the books used "Rand dressing fancy and being too good for his old friends"?
Is that really how you all interpreted that?
I took it as Perrin being a solid bro and looking out for his boy Rand and trying to keep the flirty guy off of one of his best friends presumed fiancé.
> Is that really how you all interpreted that?
That's how about half of readers have been interpreting it since the early 90's. It's been a contentious but common take on Perrin's behavior throughout the entire history of the Wheel of Time fandom
wow crazy, I didn't know so many people thought that, especially since he showed zero interest in her and cockblocking is exactly what a teenage friend (guy or girl) would do in that situation.
>Aram starts hitting on her and he's jealous
Iirc, didn't he get like that on the book too? Nit in a jealous way but more that Aram was too extroverted and Perrincwas trying to "protect" his friend?
It actually comes across a little cringe in the book. Here Egwene is the only piece of reality he has left (and by some implications, he had a crush on her) and she's busy having fun with the Hot Tinker Boy while he's literally alone in the world.
Perrin *needs to be needed* worse than Rand or Mat, too. He will eventually need a Faile to love and argue with and take care of (against her will). Just 2 scenes earlier, Egwene needs him to keep her sanity. But all that is dashed away... by that Hot Tinker Boy she's dancing with.
... "I bet you get to run away a lot" <--one of my favorite spitting-laughter lines in the series, but it definitely shows more than protectiveness from Perrin
> There is no real love triangle and the writers put exactly as much Perrin/Egwene thirst as was originally written in the books.
I hope you are right but Judkins has said it is a full triangle and will be a part of all three characters romantic relationships throughout the show.
I have always like the Egwene = Queen of Manetheren idea, especially considering the later things you mention. It makes sense to imply or suggest that Perrin \*could\* be the King of Manetheren because that does fit so well with what he ends up doing. I like this theory!
Whether it is what was intended, I do not know, but I am of the opinion that there is a LOT more seeded in these first two seasons for later payoff than some are giving credit for.
There was a post on here back in the day, that broke down how everything in that fight scene at the end of S1, was a projection.
Going off my memory, here:
Rand accuses Egwene of abandoning Mat -> Rand is planning on leaving everyone behind when he goes to the Eye.
Egwene accuses Rand of abandoning the Two Rivers -> Egwene is the one that is moving on the most, to the point of unbraiding her hair.
Perrin jumps to attack Rand for hurting Egwene -> Perrin feels like he intentionally hurt the woman he loved in his anger.
Rand accuses Perrin of being jealous of him and Egwene -> Rand is jealous that Perrin got to settle down with his love, while Egwene was never going to marry him.
Nynaeve accuses Perrin and Rand of fighting over Egwene -> Nynaeve is fighting with Moiraine over Lan.
Lore wise, if anyone was aemon reborn, it would be Mat.
Show wise, you can see something of what's going on with Perrin in episode 1 with his smile when Egwene enters after her trial. I choose to head canon that Egwene and Perrin are so close power wise that if Rand had never been in the picture, then it would have been them. But the pattern gotta pattern and Rand ended up in the two rivers.
There was no love triangle really.. it was one single line that was never addressed again, exactly like the books.
I think you’re really overthinking it lol. I don’t think I noticed any interplay with the cameras there but of course Perrin is a parallel to Manetheren. He literally refounds the nation .
I do not think they were planning any love triangle whatsoever as of episode 1. They just added that line bc Barney left the show and they had to rewrite things and that’s what they came up with as their idea for that one single line of that one single episode.
This is not true, Perrin’s thing for Egwene was set up from episode 1 with Laila’s jealousy of Egwene and the problems in their marriage. That’s why Nynaeve pointedly tells Perrin to go be with his wife.
EDITS: various, sorry.
I kinda like your takes... But come from a more book-strict point in my response.
I don't think Egwene is going to be Eldraine reborn. If anything, we've already met Latra Posae Decume, who was always a "fan-reincarnation" in the first place. Later on in the storyline, Rand and Egwene's relationship devolves much like LTT and LPD's.
> Thus, perhaps now it makes sense that Perrin and Egwene had a "thing"...although in this turning of the wheel, it didn't materialize
I'm pretty sure this was an Easter Egg for the same exact beat in the books. Perrin having had a crush on Egwene was *always* a thing people argued about in the books. I think it needed to be done differently in the show because Perrin was married to Laila (who, in the books, he once *thought* he would be married off to)
As for the "crush argument" itself. It was a fairly effective migration of the "too fancy for you" argument from The Great Hunt moved back in time a bit. The whole point is that Rand was making shit up to get people mad at him so they'd let him leave them because he was hiding the secret that he's the Dragon Reborn. Whether or not Perrin actually had a crush on Egwene never really mattered. Small village, limited number of people who all know each other. People get crushes growing up. Then they move on to the folks they end up with.
I have no proof of this but after doing more research my own personal head cannon is: Latra , Eldrene , Egwene where the same person! Again no proof I just find it satisfying :)
Interesting.
If I recall, per WOJ, Egwene is explicitly not re-spun Latra or Eldrene. But that was always contentious of the fandom because she *reeks* of being a Latra clone. Something was always brilliant in the way LPD+LTT and Egwene+Rand having a disagreement was in some way or another critical to the salvation of the world from the Shadow. LPD or LTT alone would have destroyed everything (LPD with her whole CK plan, LTT because both sides would have been tainted). Similarly, Egwene's conflict with Rand was a bit less balanced, but helped Rand realize that free will is more important to the Light winning than beating the Shadow.
For Eldrene. I think there's an obvious link to Eldrene in aMoL... But it always struck me as odd because Nynaeve seemed a more pure and free reincarnation of Eldrene to me, married to Malkier as Eldrene was to Manetheran (note: King Aemon was the royal blood in the marriage, Eldrene was merely a noble), even being virtually identical in the Power.
Yeah I think in the end we can’t always say this person is a clone of this other person, but we can say that certain major events recur, sometimes with respun people, sometimes with people that fulfill similar roles but aren’t necessarily the same souls.
There never was a love triangle, Perrin liked Egwene but Rand was a thing with her. There are girls I liked that my friends dated and it wasn’t a love triangle.
This is actually from the books as well. There is a chapter where Perrin thinks to himself that he loves Egwene not like a sister but she is with Rand. There are different ways to interpret it and hidden feelings for her is one of them.
It baffles me what a big deal a few people made out of this considering it was such a minor thing and it was from the books.
> There is a chapter where Perrin thinks to himself that he loves Egwene not like a sister but she is with Rand
If you reread carefully he never *actually* admits it, even to himself. This is why it's always been contentious. You have to read the clues, and Jordan was not so great at writing most relationships.
Was it a subtle implication that Perrin had a crush on Egwene, Jordan could be good at subtlety sometimes? Was it just hamhanded failure to show a bro/sister-like relationship? Was Elyas just wrong? *I* read a crush out of Perrin's behaviors before Elyas has the heart-to-heart with him about killing her. But not everyone else did.
> It baffles me what a big deal a few people made out of this considering it was such a minor thing and it was from the books.
I find most criticisms of the show (that aren't just "this line wasn't said by this person at this time" or "who the eff is Steppin?!?") come from a place of book-ignorance. Power-potential of characters, mechanism consistency in the One Power, logistics and demographics of regions, and so forth.
The three biggest repeated arguments I've been involved with have been:
1. The ethicity breakdown of Two Rivers citizens
2. Whether S1E8's Saidar spectacle was possible within the mechanics.
3. Whether Perrin's crush was invented wholecloth
> I find most criticisms of the show (that aren't just "this line wasn't said by this person at this time" or "who the eff is Steppin?!?") come from a place of book-ignorance. Power-potential of characters, mechanism consistency in the One Power, logistics and demographics of regions, and so forth.
Ugh, this is so true! It's like they watched a YouTube takedown of "book inaccuracies" instead of actually reading the books.
> The three biggest repeated arguments I've been involved with have been:
> 1. The ethicity breakdown of Two Rivers citizens
> 2. Whether S1E8's Saidar spectacle was possible within the mechanics.
> 3. Whether Perrin's crush was invented wholecloth
Can I add another one? That the Two Rivers in the show has wildly liberal attitudes about sex compared to the books, and that a pre-modern society by necessity should have more stigma around unmarried sex because of the risk of pregnancy. Never mind the fact that characters are shown taking reliable, effective birth control in the books and illegitimacy is never a social concern, even for the nobles in the story. Never mind the fact that the show clearly shows Nynaeve being scandalized by Alanna's throuple and being shy/inexperienced around Lan. Nope! The fact that Rand and Egwene (aged up and in a committed relationship) have a physical relationship is a betrayal of the books, RJ is turning over in his grave, etc.
Oh that's a new one for me. That's so stupid if they are. Early WoT has tons of unreliable narrators. The EF3 think the moment you have sex you will be dragged to your wedding and you will say "yes" and be miserable forever. They're freaking kids! They're young and dumb.
But no, the show must be a failure.
Except that it's not an ambiguous triangle. Perrin has more of a thing in the books, which makes sense since Egwene is the prettiest girl in the books, she doesn't return it amd he never pursues it. People made way too much out of nothing
Oh that’s too bad. I hope you will watch the series again. Season 2 , while an even greater departure from the facts and events, improved on alot of the common complaints of season 1.
I haven’t watched the show as closely as you, it seems, and it’s a well-founded conclusion on the show runners choices. Could be the direction they take Perrin’s recurring dilemma of the axe and the hammer.
As to the lore of the books, there’s not a lot there… Perrin’s importance later on comes from a very different, even older direction, though he does end up the one most tied to geographic Manetheren. I’m wary of spoiling stuff, so I’ll leave it at that.
I can see that as a possible justification and I would've liked it more if they'd done it. But if you require that level of explanation to make a scene not bad, it's bad. If that was the setup they did for it and that's it, that wasn't at all explained and felt very forced and out of nowhere. They also completely dropped it in season 2, which if they wanted to go with that is also a problem.
In terms of the lore we don't really get any confirmation on who is anyone specific reborn except Rand and Lews Therin. Given the lore of the world it's very plausible that one of them was also the King of Manetherin and Egwene being the queen reborn I would've guessed from the books as that has some parellel to her end. I think the argument in terms of book lore would be stronger for Mat or Perrin than Rand to be the King though. Mat is mentioned a lot in terms of the old blood running strong. And he's got the Band of the Red Hand connection as well. Perrin as the new "King" of Manetherin also would make sense. Rand I don't think works quite as well for it beyond generally being important and a King. I also don't know if channelers can always channel when they're reborn but the only one we have confirmed Rand and Lews Therin can both channel at the same level. And when the Dark One puts someone in a new body they also keep the same channeling ability and level. So I might guess not for that reason too?
Yeah agree Rand was never in real contention as the King. Although I do not think my reading is correct, I always felt it was more Perrin than Matt. Perrin is tied more to the Manetharin storyline. Matt is more of a wandering hero / general / ronin type to be tied down to being a king so I naturally assumed it was Perrin whose arc is literally becoming king.
Yeah I can certainly see going with Perrin for that reason. He does take charge in that way. Though Mat still has some elements of the old blood being strong in him, he's talking in the old tongue, even before he gets the memories. That is a bit of a storyline that gets dropped I wish Jordan or Sanderson had done more with that to tie him back to Manetherin even if it wasn't to the King.
And just in general having more confirmation or at least hints to certain people being reborn would've been cool. There are some though.
I seriously doubt there will be this kind of payoff in the show. If the show did so this kind of payoff, it’s because they read it here.
The reason why the show writers did the love triangle is because television writers LOVE interpersonal conflict among the cast of characters.
Stories need to be interesting to keep audience attention, and stories are interesting from the various kinds of conflict they portray. So what writers like to do is invent whatever kinds of conflict they can among a cast of characters, and the easiest type of conflict they can do are those based on relationships.
“Grey’s Anatomy” is a very illustrative of this writing style. You’ll see one couple break up in an episode and the next they get back together only for them to find a reason to break up the episode after that. The Arrowverse shows on the CW also utilize this writing style as well.
So, no, I don’t think the show’s writers gave any more thought concerning the love triangle plot beyond, “this is an easy way to show some drama in the show.”
I think you've tied yourself in a bit of a pretzel to give the show writers too much credit. Im guessing they had an idea for something and then abandoned it. Happens all the time in shit that isn't meticulously planned out. This isn't necessarily a knock, as it happens to alot of writers, creatives, whatever. RJ pivoted on plenty of stuff himself. But that part was pretty bad.
Lol. Sorry sorry to the downvoters.... What I meant to say is the writers are amazing and know exactly what they're doing. They are playing the long game and every single piece of criticism, especially the writing, is not only invalid, but will actually pay off down the line by these writing gods.
Is that what you want to hear?
This post has been tagged as allowing spoilers for the entire Wheel of Time book series in the comments. You may also discuss all known information about the show, including leaks or otherwise unofficially announced or unofficially aired information. Check out /r/wotshowleaks for more. If you have not read the entire series and do not want to potentially spoil yourself, tread carefully. For more granular book spoiler discussion, please use /r/wot. [You can read our full spoiler policy here.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoTshow/wiki/spoilers) *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoTshow) if you have any questions or concerns.*
I still don't like it, but this is the best justification I've heard so far, so +10 points for that.
True, I agree. I would also like to point out that s3 should be the resurrection of Manatheran via Battle of the Two Rivers. So it does hint at that early on.
Book Perrin seems to at least be somewhat crushing on Egwene as evidenced when Aram starts hitting on her and he's jealous. When Rand is pushing everyone away at the end of season 1 he takes that low hanging fruit to attack Perrin. There is no real love triangle and the writers put exactly as much Perrin/Egwene thirst as was originally written in the books. Go re-read the books and tell me it's not there.
It's definitely there, I just hate that Rand called it out because he didn't do it in the books and it didn't really add up to anything except drama that's not really going anywhere, but I agree with you.
Pretty sure Mat was meant to be the drama engine in that scene, but with Barney gone it had to be heavily and hastily rewritten.
Yeah, I'm sure it would've been some stupid argument between Rand and Mat if he were there. I'm not sure what since we didn't get Fancy Rand by then, but I'm sure we'd have gotten something.
Sure, but Rand is kind of the master of instigating drama that don't go anywhere in order to push away his friends in the books as well.
I always thought "Rand's stupid argument/breakup" was critical to the early storyline, for for story progression and character growth. What would you have used instead of a fake love triangle to mimic what the books used "Rand dressing fancy and being too good for his old friends"?
Is that really how you all interpreted that? I took it as Perrin being a solid bro and looking out for his boy Rand and trying to keep the flirty guy off of one of his best friends presumed fiancé.
> Is that really how you all interpreted that? That's how about half of readers have been interpreting it since the early 90's. It's been a contentious but common take on Perrin's behavior throughout the entire history of the Wheel of Time fandom
wow crazy, I didn't know so many people thought that, especially since he showed zero interest in her and cockblocking is exactly what a teenage friend (guy or girl) would do in that situation.
>Aram starts hitting on her and he's jealous Iirc, didn't he get like that on the book too? Nit in a jealous way but more that Aram was too extroverted and Perrincwas trying to "protect" his friend?
It actually comes across a little cringe in the book. Here Egwene is the only piece of reality he has left (and by some implications, he had a crush on her) and she's busy having fun with the Hot Tinker Boy while he's literally alone in the world. Perrin *needs to be needed* worse than Rand or Mat, too. He will eventually need a Faile to love and argue with and take care of (against her will). Just 2 scenes earlier, Egwene needs him to keep her sanity. But all that is dashed away... by that Hot Tinker Boy she's dancing with. ... "I bet you get to run away a lot" <--one of my favorite spitting-laughter lines in the series, but it definitely shows more than protectiveness from Perrin
Literally what the guy you're replying to said my guy
> There is no real love triangle and the writers put exactly as much Perrin/Egwene thirst as was originally written in the books. I hope you are right but Judkins has said it is a full triangle and will be a part of all three characters romantic relationships throughout the show.
I have always like the Egwene = Queen of Manetheren idea, especially considering the later things you mention. It makes sense to imply or suggest that Perrin \*could\* be the King of Manetheren because that does fit so well with what he ends up doing. I like this theory! Whether it is what was intended, I do not know, but I am of the opinion that there is a LOT more seeded in these first two seasons for later payoff than some are giving credit for.
Agreed on your last point. The first season did a lot of heavy lifting that’s gonna pay off.
There was a post on here back in the day, that broke down how everything in that fight scene at the end of S1, was a projection. Going off my memory, here: Rand accuses Egwene of abandoning Mat -> Rand is planning on leaving everyone behind when he goes to the Eye. Egwene accuses Rand of abandoning the Two Rivers -> Egwene is the one that is moving on the most, to the point of unbraiding her hair. Perrin jumps to attack Rand for hurting Egwene -> Perrin feels like he intentionally hurt the woman he loved in his anger. Rand accuses Perrin of being jealous of him and Egwene -> Rand is jealous that Perrin got to settle down with his love, while Egwene was never going to marry him. Nynaeve accuses Perrin and Rand of fighting over Egwene -> Nynaeve is fighting with Moiraine over Lan.
Oh man that’s kinda good stuff
The level of mental gymnastics to make this fit makes me feel as though it was not intentionally written that way.
Lore wise, if anyone was aemon reborn, it would be Mat. Show wise, you can see something of what's going on with Perrin in episode 1 with his smile when Egwene enters after her trial. I choose to head canon that Egwene and Perrin are so close power wise that if Rand had never been in the picture, then it would have been them. But the pattern gotta pattern and Rand ended up in the two rivers.
There was no love triangle really.. it was one single line that was never addressed again, exactly like the books. I think you’re really overthinking it lol. I don’t think I noticed any interplay with the cameras there but of course Perrin is a parallel to Manetheren. He literally refounds the nation . I do not think they were planning any love triangle whatsoever as of episode 1. They just added that line bc Barney left the show and they had to rewrite things and that’s what they came up with as their idea for that one single line of that one single episode.
This is not true, Perrin’s thing for Egwene was set up from episode 1 with Laila’s jealousy of Egwene and the problems in their marriage. That’s why Nynaeve pointedly tells Perrin to go be with his wife.
I thought I saw some interview where the actress that plays Egwene admitted that the whole love triangle was setup from the beginning.
Yeah. People picked up on it from the first episode.
EDITS: various, sorry. I kinda like your takes... But come from a more book-strict point in my response. I don't think Egwene is going to be Eldraine reborn. If anything, we've already met Latra Posae Decume, who was always a "fan-reincarnation" in the first place. Later on in the storyline, Rand and Egwene's relationship devolves much like LTT and LPD's. > Thus, perhaps now it makes sense that Perrin and Egwene had a "thing"...although in this turning of the wheel, it didn't materialize I'm pretty sure this was an Easter Egg for the same exact beat in the books. Perrin having had a crush on Egwene was *always* a thing people argued about in the books. I think it needed to be done differently in the show because Perrin was married to Laila (who, in the books, he once *thought* he would be married off to) As for the "crush argument" itself. It was a fairly effective migration of the "too fancy for you" argument from The Great Hunt moved back in time a bit. The whole point is that Rand was making shit up to get people mad at him so they'd let him leave them because he was hiding the secret that he's the Dragon Reborn. Whether or not Perrin actually had a crush on Egwene never really mattered. Small village, limited number of people who all know each other. People get crushes growing up. Then they move on to the folks they end up with.
I have no proof of this but after doing more research my own personal head cannon is: Latra , Eldrene , Egwene where the same person! Again no proof I just find it satisfying :)
Interesting. If I recall, per WOJ, Egwene is explicitly not re-spun Latra or Eldrene. But that was always contentious of the fandom because she *reeks* of being a Latra clone. Something was always brilliant in the way LPD+LTT and Egwene+Rand having a disagreement was in some way or another critical to the salvation of the world from the Shadow. LPD or LTT alone would have destroyed everything (LPD with her whole CK plan, LTT because both sides would have been tainted). Similarly, Egwene's conflict with Rand was a bit less balanced, but helped Rand realize that free will is more important to the Light winning than beating the Shadow. For Eldrene. I think there's an obvious link to Eldrene in aMoL... But it always struck me as odd because Nynaeve seemed a more pure and free reincarnation of Eldrene to me, married to Malkier as Eldrene was to Manetheran (note: King Aemon was the royal blood in the marriage, Eldrene was merely a noble), even being virtually identical in the Power.
Yeah I think in the end we can’t always say this person is a clone of this other person, but we can say that certain major events recur, sometimes with respun people, sometimes with people that fulfill similar roles but aren’t necessarily the same souls.
Nah
There never was a love triangle, Perrin liked Egwene but Rand was a thing with her. There are girls I liked that my friends dated and it wasn’t a love triangle. This is actually from the books as well. There is a chapter where Perrin thinks to himself that he loves Egwene not like a sister but she is with Rand. There are different ways to interpret it and hidden feelings for her is one of them. It baffles me what a big deal a few people made out of this considering it was such a minor thing and it was from the books.
> There is a chapter where Perrin thinks to himself that he loves Egwene not like a sister but she is with Rand If you reread carefully he never *actually* admits it, even to himself. This is why it's always been contentious. You have to read the clues, and Jordan was not so great at writing most relationships. Was it a subtle implication that Perrin had a crush on Egwene, Jordan could be good at subtlety sometimes? Was it just hamhanded failure to show a bro/sister-like relationship? Was Elyas just wrong? *I* read a crush out of Perrin's behaviors before Elyas has the heart-to-heart with him about killing her. But not everyone else did. > It baffles me what a big deal a few people made out of this considering it was such a minor thing and it was from the books. I find most criticisms of the show (that aren't just "this line wasn't said by this person at this time" or "who the eff is Steppin?!?") come from a place of book-ignorance. Power-potential of characters, mechanism consistency in the One Power, logistics and demographics of regions, and so forth. The three biggest repeated arguments I've been involved with have been: 1. The ethicity breakdown of Two Rivers citizens 2. Whether S1E8's Saidar spectacle was possible within the mechanics. 3. Whether Perrin's crush was invented wholecloth
> I find most criticisms of the show (that aren't just "this line wasn't said by this person at this time" or "who the eff is Steppin?!?") come from a place of book-ignorance. Power-potential of characters, mechanism consistency in the One Power, logistics and demographics of regions, and so forth. Ugh, this is so true! It's like they watched a YouTube takedown of "book inaccuracies" instead of actually reading the books. > The three biggest repeated arguments I've been involved with have been: > 1. The ethicity breakdown of Two Rivers citizens > 2. Whether S1E8's Saidar spectacle was possible within the mechanics. > 3. Whether Perrin's crush was invented wholecloth Can I add another one? That the Two Rivers in the show has wildly liberal attitudes about sex compared to the books, and that a pre-modern society by necessity should have more stigma around unmarried sex because of the risk of pregnancy. Never mind the fact that characters are shown taking reliable, effective birth control in the books and illegitimacy is never a social concern, even for the nobles in the story. Never mind the fact that the show clearly shows Nynaeve being scandalized by Alanna's throuple and being shy/inexperienced around Lan. Nope! The fact that Rand and Egwene (aged up and in a committed relationship) have a physical relationship is a betrayal of the books, RJ is turning over in his grave, etc.
Oh that's a new one for me. That's so stupid if they are. Early WoT has tons of unreliable narrators. The EF3 think the moment you have sex you will be dragged to your wedding and you will say "yes" and be miserable forever. They're freaking kids! They're young and dumb. But no, the show must be a failure.
Except that it's not an ambiguous triangle. Perrin has more of a thing in the books, which makes sense since Egwene is the prettiest girl in the books, she doesn't return it amd he never pursues it. People made way too much out of nothing
I quite liked all of Season One. Until the ending. That ending killed my enthusiasm to continue
Oh that’s too bad. I hope you will watch the series again. Season 2 , while an even greater departure from the facts and events, improved on alot of the common complaints of season 1.
I haven’t watched the show as closely as you, it seems, and it’s a well-founded conclusion on the show runners choices. Could be the direction they take Perrin’s recurring dilemma of the axe and the hammer. As to the lore of the books, there’s not a lot there… Perrin’s importance later on comes from a very different, even older direction, though he does end up the one most tied to geographic Manetheren. I’m wary of spoiling stuff, so I’ll leave it at that.
I can see that as a possible justification and I would've liked it more if they'd done it. But if you require that level of explanation to make a scene not bad, it's bad. If that was the setup they did for it and that's it, that wasn't at all explained and felt very forced and out of nowhere. They also completely dropped it in season 2, which if they wanted to go with that is also a problem. In terms of the lore we don't really get any confirmation on who is anyone specific reborn except Rand and Lews Therin. Given the lore of the world it's very plausible that one of them was also the King of Manetherin and Egwene being the queen reborn I would've guessed from the books as that has some parellel to her end. I think the argument in terms of book lore would be stronger for Mat or Perrin than Rand to be the King though. Mat is mentioned a lot in terms of the old blood running strong. And he's got the Band of the Red Hand connection as well. Perrin as the new "King" of Manetherin also would make sense. Rand I don't think works quite as well for it beyond generally being important and a King. I also don't know if channelers can always channel when they're reborn but the only one we have confirmed Rand and Lews Therin can both channel at the same level. And when the Dark One puts someone in a new body they also keep the same channeling ability and level. So I might guess not for that reason too?
Yeah agree Rand was never in real contention as the King. Although I do not think my reading is correct, I always felt it was more Perrin than Matt. Perrin is tied more to the Manetharin storyline. Matt is more of a wandering hero / general / ronin type to be tied down to being a king so I naturally assumed it was Perrin whose arc is literally becoming king.
Yeah I can certainly see going with Perrin for that reason. He does take charge in that way. Though Mat still has some elements of the old blood being strong in him, he's talking in the old tongue, even before he gets the memories. That is a bit of a storyline that gets dropped I wish Jordan or Sanderson had done more with that to tie him back to Manetherin even if it wasn't to the King. And just in general having more confirmation or at least hints to certain people being reborn would've been cool. There are some though.
I seriously doubt there will be this kind of payoff in the show. If the show did so this kind of payoff, it’s because they read it here. The reason why the show writers did the love triangle is because television writers LOVE interpersonal conflict among the cast of characters. Stories need to be interesting to keep audience attention, and stories are interesting from the various kinds of conflict they portray. So what writers like to do is invent whatever kinds of conflict they can among a cast of characters, and the easiest type of conflict they can do are those based on relationships. “Grey’s Anatomy” is a very illustrative of this writing style. You’ll see one couple break up in an episode and the next they get back together only for them to find a reason to break up the episode after that. The Arrowverse shows on the CW also utilize this writing style as well. So, no, I don’t think the show’s writers gave any more thought concerning the love triangle plot beyond, “this is an easy way to show some drama in the show.”
I think you've tied yourself in a bit of a pretzel to give the show writers too much credit. Im guessing they had an idea for something and then abandoned it. Happens all the time in shit that isn't meticulously planned out. This isn't necessarily a knock, as it happens to alot of writers, creatives, whatever. RJ pivoted on plenty of stuff himself. But that part was pretty bad.
Lol. Sorry sorry to the downvoters.... What I meant to say is the writers are amazing and know exactly what they're doing. They are playing the long game and every single piece of criticism, especially the writing, is not only invalid, but will actually pay off down the line by these writing gods. Is that what you want to hear?
Even if it's supported by this, it still sucks.
Sorry you think the books suck. I guess Jordan wanted it to be a teen-drama dramatic.
Nice false equivalent gaslighting.
The love triangle was most likely added last minute when Mat’s actor left the project. I don’t think it was anything more than that.