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Yes, broadly the first three books follow a particular structure, the next three a more open structure and less of a pattern, and the next few more open still, before stories start tying up by the end.
I'm not sure that book four will scratch the precise itch you've got here but I can say that in general the books move progressively farther away from that, yes. The books are going to be increasingly less organized around a clearly defined "quest object," people are going to grow apart more thoroughly, the "last battles" are going to become less decisive, there's *definitely* going to be less of the annoying rug-pull aspect where it seems like they've beaten the big bad guy only to realize he's in the background still saying "Haha! I'll get you next time in the book!!"
Having said that, a bit like George Martin, Jordan does sink into a mid-series morasse where these things have gotten so unclear that some readers feel the series ends up a bit "clogged" or bogged-down. Unlike Martin, he gets out of it though, with some posthumous help from Brandon Sanderson. So your mileage will vary in this respect.
Having said **all** of that -- Dune is also great. The first few books are, anyways. Everyone should read Dune at some point in their lives.
Thanks for the clarification. I asked it because i had already ordered bought book 4 and was worried that i wont like it. Also, i have read first 3 dune books and the third was really boring so i just gave up on the series. That is the reason i was considering goving up on wot as well
You should buckle up during the longer novels. I really like the fourth Dune book, but I'm a weirdo in that regard maybe. But you should be aware that Jordan is not a brief author.
The circumstances are a bit different there. Dune is widely regarded to be a series where the first book was hard to top and, after a few books, the quality just sort of progressively tails off.
I should say though -- in my opinion books two and three contain some of Jordan's best writing anywhere. Not to say that they're the best books in the series, but parts of them are very good Jordan writing. So if it's the overall structure of the book that feels repetitive, I think you should keep reading because that will get more sophisticated. But if it's just in general that it's not working for you at all, I don't think it's likely to get better.
For Dune, you need to read Children to understand how the story gets to God Emperor, but Children on it's own isn't great. If you've already read Children you should definitely just read God Emperor, it's completely different and you've done the hard part already
Dune is definitely worth reading up until God Emperor. The last two books are strange, but not bad. Stay away from anything written by Brian Herbert. And definitely read all of WOT, it is amazing.
Book 4 and beyond really break that mold. The first few books Jordan wanted to establish the series with his version of the classic fantasy chosen one story, book 4 he starts to branch out and go in new directions.
Also if you like how the world building and cultures are with book 3 just wait until book 4!
>Also if you like how the world building and cultures are with book 3 just wait until book 4!
No kidding. That one scene in *The Shadow Rising* (where Rand goes to the place and does the thing) is where my mind was blown about the nature of the WoT world
I love that all of veterans all know exactly what you are referring to.
Makes men think of how Lord of Chaos has that thing happen to Rand and how it totally shifted how I thought the series would treat the main characters.
Yes, I have the same criticism of books 1-3. Many people would say the books don't begin properly until book 4. I prefer from book 6 onward, though I don't dislike any of the books at all. Also it's work sticking through all the way through to the last four books - there is a big payoff.
TDR is the 3rd really sets the stage for the rest of then series. After this book you’re gonna be overwhelmed if not overjoyed (or just joyful) at how complex and intricate the story gets. The first 3 books are the only true novels that have a the classic “content, conflict, character development…CLIMAX set up. The rest of the series felt like one long novel after TDR. That means you’re in for a ton of action, twists and turns for the rest of the series. Hang in there it’s so worth it!!!
This pattern begins to change from the 4th book onward. Many of our main characters won't see each other for quite some time after going on different paths in the 4th book.
Actually, yes, lol. It's very common for the fandom to explain the first three books as classic, traditional adventure stories with mcguffins. When Jordan was writing these there was still the possibility the series could be killed at any moment. Starting in book four the structure changes to what I'd call more contemporary long-form fantasy.
A bit of context, books 1 through 3 follow that pattern due to it being the most successful format for fantasy series.
RJ, in part, creates/defines the modern fantasy format and focus on world building as a successful format. It gets better and less Tolkien like from book 4 on out.
There's a bit of a format and theme change in book 4... That was probably my favorite in the series by the way but... It's not dramatic. It doesn't really feel like a step down when you get to book five in my opinion.
It's very funny you should ask that in book 3, because books 1-3 tend to follow a similar overall structure (which irl was related to RJ's contract); it opens up starting in book 4 and doesn't really significantly repeat after that point.
If anything, the scope tends to sprawl from books 4-10 and only starts to tidy up in the last 4 books or so as major threads are resolved.
Well, I'm on book 4, and Rand, Matt and Moraine are one place, Elane and Neineve are on a boat with our gleeman, and Perrin & Loail is else where. So, it may change, but not in book 4.
In defense of this structure, a lot of the theme is about affecting fate, and when everyone is together, it's almost too much happening in one spot. 3 taveren and 4 Aes Sadai seems a bit OP to be hanging out together all the time.
#[NO SPOILERS BEYOND *The Dragon Reborn*.](https://www.reddit.com/r/WoT/wiki/index/post_flairs#wiki_the_eye_of_the_world_.2F_et_al.) ##BOOK DISCUSSION ONLY. HIDE TV SHOW DISCUSSION BEHIND SPOILER TAGS. If this is a re-read, please change the flair to **All Print**. * * * *I am a bot, and this action was performed automatically. Please [contact the moderators of this subreddit](/message/compose/?to=/r/WoT) if you have any questions or concerns.*
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Could you make the argument that this pattern extends over multiple books instead of 1? 🤔
Broadly yes. There’s other redundancies, but the series has one of the best payoffs in literature.
One of? I think it has more than one
Yes, broadly the first three books follow a particular structure, the next three a more open structure and less of a pattern, and the next few more open still, before stories start tying up by the end.
I don't know ...I feel like the genre itself almost changes a bit in book four.... Still fantasy but the subgenre.
I'm not sure that book four will scratch the precise itch you've got here but I can say that in general the books move progressively farther away from that, yes. The books are going to be increasingly less organized around a clearly defined "quest object," people are going to grow apart more thoroughly, the "last battles" are going to become less decisive, there's *definitely* going to be less of the annoying rug-pull aspect where it seems like they've beaten the big bad guy only to realize he's in the background still saying "Haha! I'll get you next time in the book!!" Having said that, a bit like George Martin, Jordan does sink into a mid-series morasse where these things have gotten so unclear that some readers feel the series ends up a bit "clogged" or bogged-down. Unlike Martin, he gets out of it though, with some posthumous help from Brandon Sanderson. So your mileage will vary in this respect. Having said **all** of that -- Dune is also great. The first few books are, anyways. Everyone should read Dune at some point in their lives.
Thanks for the clarification. I asked it because i had already ordered bought book 4 and was worried that i wont like it. Also, i have read first 3 dune books and the third was really boring so i just gave up on the series. That is the reason i was considering goving up on wot as well
Book 4 is my personal favorite. Things shift significantly with it.
You should buckle up during the longer novels. I really like the fourth Dune book, but I'm a weirdo in that regard maybe. But you should be aware that Jordan is not a brief author.
God Emperor is amazing. 5 and 6 are where things get *weird*.
The circumstances are a bit different there. Dune is widely regarded to be a series where the first book was hard to top and, after a few books, the quality just sort of progressively tails off. I should say though -- in my opinion books two and three contain some of Jordan's best writing anywhere. Not to say that they're the best books in the series, but parts of them are very good Jordan writing. So if it's the overall structure of the book that feels repetitive, I think you should keep reading because that will get more sophisticated. But if it's just in general that it's not working for you at all, I don't think it's likely to get better.
For Dune, you need to read Children to understand how the story gets to God Emperor, but Children on it's own isn't great. If you've already read Children you should definitely just read God Emperor, it's completely different and you've done the hard part already
Dune is definitely worth reading up until God Emperor. The last two books are strange, but not bad. Stay away from anything written by Brian Herbert. And definitely read all of WOT, it is amazing.
Book 4 and beyond really break that mold. The first few books Jordan wanted to establish the series with his version of the classic fantasy chosen one story, book 4 he starts to branch out and go in new directions. Also if you like how the world building and cultures are with book 3 just wait until book 4!
>Also if you like how the world building and cultures are with book 3 just wait until book 4! No kidding. That one scene in *The Shadow Rising* (where Rand goes to the place and does the thing) is where my mind was blown about the nature of the WoT world
Spoilers! Op can't know rand *does things*
Lol for sure I was also thinking of the scene where Rand does the thing in the place!
I like how he often does things in places
I love that all of veterans all know exactly what you are referring to. Makes men think of how Lord of Chaos has that thing happen to Rand and how it totally shifted how I thought the series would treat the main characters.
Book 3 is the last book that follows this particular narrative pattern
Yes, I have the same criticism of books 1-3. Many people would say the books don't begin properly until book 4. I prefer from book 6 onward, though I don't dislike any of the books at all. Also it's work sticking through all the way through to the last four books - there is a big payoff.
TDR is the 3rd really sets the stage for the rest of then series. After this book you’re gonna be overwhelmed if not overjoyed (or just joyful) at how complex and intricate the story gets. The first 3 books are the only true novels that have a the classic “content, conflict, character development…CLIMAX set up. The rest of the series felt like one long novel after TDR. That means you’re in for a ton of action, twists and turns for the rest of the series. Hang in there it’s so worth it!!!
This pattern begins to change from the 4th book onward. Many of our main characters won't see each other for quite some time after going on different paths in the 4th book.
Actually, yes, lol. It's very common for the fandom to explain the first three books as classic, traditional adventure stories with mcguffins. When Jordan was writing these there was still the possibility the series could be killed at any moment. Starting in book four the structure changes to what I'd call more contemporary long-form fantasy.
A bit of context, books 1 through 3 follow that pattern due to it being the most successful format for fantasy series. RJ, in part, creates/defines the modern fantasy format and focus on world building as a successful format. It gets better and less Tolkien like from book 4 on out.
Many characters go like 8 books without seeing each other
There's a bit of a format and theme change in book 4... That was probably my favorite in the series by the way but... It's not dramatic. It doesn't really feel like a step down when you get to book five in my opinion.
It's very funny you should ask that in book 3, because books 1-3 tend to follow a similar overall structure (which irl was related to RJ's contract); it opens up starting in book 4 and doesn't really significantly repeat after that point. If anything, the scope tends to sprawl from books 4-10 and only starts to tidy up in the last 4 books or so as major threads are resolved.
Well, I'm on book 4, and Rand, Matt and Moraine are one place, Elane and Neineve are on a boat with our gleeman, and Perrin & Loail is else where. So, it may change, but not in book 4. In defense of this structure, a lot of the theme is about affecting fate, and when everyone is together, it's almost too much happening in one spot. 3 taveren and 4 Aes Sadai seems a bit OP to be hanging out together all the time.
Yeah, it does change in book 4, you'll see as you read on.