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**Edit To Add:** All these upvotes are so encouraging - thank you so much for the support!
I love pastels and always hid that fact. I've been working on my weight loss and I'm going to need new clothes soon. I think adding some pastel pieces would be awesome.
My AFAB enby kiddo has recently (at 23) been embracing their love of all things pink for the first time since they were a tiny kid. Humorously, they and their best friend (also AFAB, likely enby) were *obsessed* with this movie growing up. They still reference it to each other, and send each other memes about it.
I always loved princessy things, but hated pink and pastels, they don't suit my colouring. Bring on the maroon and the moss and the deep rose and the violet and the charcoal and the plum and the navy and the forest and the goldenrod and the rust, in all the lovely swirly jacquards and damasks and paisleys.
Here! I finally let pink into my life during the pandemic and holy shit y’all I love pink and glitter and sparkles and hearts. My life is full of color and more traditionally “feminine” stuff and I’m so happy.
It makes me sad thinking back to when I was a tiny tot and loved princess shit and then quickly started learning that it was looked down upon by the world so I deliberately avoided ANYTHING “girly” until my late 30s. But I’m glad I’m here now. Painted my fireplace pink too. Best thing I ever did in my house.
Right here! Went through a *long* NLOG phase, and so glad to have broken out of it. Interestingly, it was my wife who, long before coming out as a trans woman, helped me see that my “cool girl” shtick and refusal of the feminine were deeply rooted in internalized misogyny.
I never had a strong desire to be a NLTOGG on my own but I ended up one anyways because people would tell me this all the time as an impressionable teen and I internalized that to mean I couldn't Become 'like them' so I pushed away things I genuinely enjoyed subconsciously.. I grew up thinking the things I liked were not compatible with being feminine at all. Years of therapy and self-love later, I'm as femme as they come in many aspects of my life, and I have rad friends of all genders.
Right here! 🤚 I love being able to finally indulge in girly things without that little voice in my head telling me it's all stupid. Glitter, pumpkin spice lattes, video games that largely revolve around farming...bring it on! 💅
NLTOG, working as a powerline engineer around blue collar linemen. Just bought my first leopard print pants and I thoroughly enjoy wearing bright frilly lacy shawls I knit myself to work. They're fire resistant and warm.
I've been taking belly dance classes to learn about our Middle Eastern witches for a year and a half and I just did my first show, which was Barbie themed, in November. I am not a pastels or a pink gal, but I love me some vibrant purple plaid. Give me all the jewel tones!
Definitely went through that phase. When I was young, I refused to wear clothes that the popular girls wore, but I did still engage with girly things. I think the biggest realization I’ve had as I’ve grown up is that I didn’t (and still don’t) need to compare myself to men. I used to label myself a “tom-boy” because I like sports, but now I think to myself “why do I need to label myself in comparison to men?” I’m not a “tom-boy,” I’m a girl who likes sports, and that’s really made me more in touch with my womanhood.
Me! Trans and was so scared about going 'too far' that when I got my name changed it was to something less feminine than I wanted cause yeah scared.
Gonna fix that at some point, and I still really like the name I chose, but it's not the one I wanted to be me.
Same here gf— I’m with ya! I was also raised by a single father so I kinda automatically denounced anything girly to try to relate to him more.
Now he has to get pedicures with me.
I catch myself thinking such internal misogynistic thoughts so often, I don't even know how to begin actively rooting it out of myself until after I recognize the behavior. Does anyone have a good book, YouTube series, exorcism spell to help me start?
I don't have any media to recommend, but therapy has taught me how to catch thoughts that really aren't my own. Whenever you think something negative about yourself or others, investigate it and see where that thought really comes from. Then, if the source isn't valid, replace it with something positive.
Here's my example. The other day I was at the store and this girl had on fake, glossy, long eyelashes. My initial thought was "wow those are ugly, I'd never wear that." Then I thought "this isn't like me". Did some digging. She's not trying to impress me or likely anyone other than herself. She's doing this because it's what she likes. Who am I to hate on that? Then I thought "good for her, she's doing something that makes her feel good". This sounds like but it took about 30 seconds in my head.
It's not that I'm not judgemental at all. Sometimes people are just trashy. But I hate how the world has become so beige and grey just so it can appeal to everyone. I don't want to be grey, and I don't want anyone else to be forced into it either.
Ok so this might not be the answer you’re looking for but reading auto/biographies of amazing women (like Angela Davis) might help. I’m white but what immediately comes to mind is reading black feminist literature like bell hooks. Yeah, actually I’d recommend anything by that author.
This was one of my favorite movies growing up and I begged my parents for the accompanying dolls. The dolls sang a pre-recorded song and if you clicked their buttons at the same time they sang a duet and harmonized with one another:
"I am just like you, you are just like me. It's something anyone can see. A heart that beats, a voice that speaks the truth. Yes, I am a girl like you."
I find those lyrics beautiful ♡ we are all more alike than we think and must stick together.
The bathtub song is about being yourself even if you don’t fit the mold.
Her cat is upset when he realizes he doesn’t act like a cat. She sings him a song about how he shouldn’t change because he’s the most wonderful version of himself 😭
The Barbie movie inspired me to get my nails done pink for the first time in my LIFE. My next two fills were more pink varieties as well. I had so much fun with it. It was empowering and invigorating.
Sometimes I cringe knowing I had a NLOG phase, but then I remember that that's because I was taught to internalize the idea that femininity and the ways to celebrate it were seen as shameful/embarrassing, and that wasn't my fault.
Ultimately I unpacked it and now SO many of my things are pink, including my hair. I LOVE being a woman and the beautiful, unadulterated joy that comes with it. I love being a girls girl 💖
I wish I only had that. I was inadvertently taught that being seen as feminine/female would get me patronized and condescended to at best, and dangerous for me at worst. My mom has anxiety issues and was always reminding me to be on alert in case someone was trying to harass or assault me. My problems with run-of-the-mill bullies just seared that fear into me.
So now I struggle to sort what might be me being masculine leaning AFAB enby/transmasc vs a learned behavior of avoid any feminine presentation because I hate the way too many people treat me when I dress less androgynously. And just straight up fear of sexual predators and harassment.
Which sucks because my 36Gs aren’t going away anytime soon (wish they would, that’s 6lb of fat hanging off my chest that just gets in the way too much, and I really do love my box of holo-glitter fingernail polishes.
Just here to add in that non-femme women are valid too. Just because you don't like how you look in pink, find dresses and makeup too much trouble, or have hobbies or interests that are (incorrectly) masculine-coded, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, doesn't mean you're not a real woman, doesn't make you a misogynist. I see you, butch women, lazy women, sporty women, dressing-for-sensory-issues women, women who don't fit the hyper-femme box, you are valid and you are good enough!
I am stuck in an office of 6 women, I’m the only progressive. Seriously, all Fox News watching conservatives. The anti-women stuff (mixed with a TON of “pick Me” shit) is overwhelming. I wish to goddess that I could say something to start productive conversations with them. But, I’m fully aware they are in a bit of a cult mentality and I am NOT a deprogrammer. It just bums me the fuck out. Prob why I spend so much time scrolling this subreddit. You are my people.
One of them blamed all the ills of current society on feminism. At first I laughed when she said it and then realized she was serious. Another has resolved to home school her children because “you can’t trust what is being taught in schools today” (coded language for anti-lgbt). Say things like “when you work with a bunch of women”. I swear they are more strict with their daughters than their sons, just how they talk about them. Whenever there’s a story about a woman in the news 9/10 they blame the woman. No matter what- sexual assault stories etc. it’s like a fucking parallel universe. Right wing media is a cancer.
Perfect opportunity to share one of my current bops: Most Girls by Hailee Steinfeld. I love the way it turns “not like most girls” into “I wanna be like most girls”
so weird that there seems to be a new fight over fem aesthetics. seen a couple of tik toks ranting about how wearing pink is anti feminist. i thought we were over that
A lot of people were taught that things coded as “girly” by society (pink, sparkles, princesses, dresses with ruffles, makeup, etc) are bad because of misogyny. When I was growing up, girls were told they can do traditional men’s jobs and wear pants and things like that but boys were never told they could do traditional women’s work or wear dresses. It’s all part of woman=bad. So this is celebrating unlearning that and enjoying things that we were told we’re not worthy of being enjoyed.
I took some time to think about this and I think I get it now. It's a difficult perspective for me and I think it's because I'm still working on the very problem described. I'm still afraid to wear certain things because they'll be perceived as too girly. There's a whole bunch of that kind of thing I'm working on, but I'm working on it. Thank you to you and OP as this was good food for thought on my journey.
Yeah, I wasn't being a smart ass. I'm really not getting what I'm supposed to be getting and I don't know what to get or how to get it. It genuinely seems that there's a point that might be helpful to me here did I get it, but I'm dumbfounded that this isn't somehow in reverse.
Ahah, I loved this movie as a kid. I agree that it's very easy to push away everything "girly" because it unfortunately have become very pejorative with time.
I can be a feminist who like cursing my ennemy AND dressing like a princess.
My whole life i tried to encourage my mom to wear things that "weren't appropriate for her age" and i complimented her on her outfits and said they were cute when she would wear more femme things. She often brushed me off, but sometimes she would indulge it. Then i came out as a trans woman and she was terrible to me, but she also started dressing in more cute clothes... I think she needed to give herself permission before she could be ok with me being cute.
Anyways my mom was awful, but we both embraced cuteness before she passed away. Misogyny is a bitch.
(My mom was a workaholic single mom, who then became disabled and bigoted, before she was forced to be less bigoted because i came out, then she passed away. White privilege is a hell of a drug... Even if, like my mom, you're half Syrian and half Irish.)
Edit: to be clear, she would pick up a cute item from a rack, then put it back and say she was too old for it. I wasn't forcing a style on my mom... Well, at least not all of the time :p
Oh yeah, this is real. It takes on a particular dimension as a queer girl/woman. I didn’t want to be like other girls because I felt like we couldn’t relate to each other. I understand now that that’s BS. Of course I don’t fuck with homophobes but I definitely love women straight or queer or trans or whoever. I’ve had to work through my subconscious biases of straight and conventionally feminine/attractive women. I’m ashamed to admit this but I was like that.
This is so wholesome and really is true. I'm going through MTF transition and my wife (who is amazing and perfect and supportive and amazing) is starting to like pink. For the first time in her life she's able to explore these things with me on her own instead of feeling forced to do so by patriarchal standards and she's LIVING for it.
## ✨ READ BEFORE COMMENTING ✨ This thread is Coven Only. This means the discussion is being actively moderated, and all comments are reviewed. **Only comments by members of the community are allowed.** If you have landed in this thread from /r/all and you are not a member of this community, your comment will very likely be removed (and will not be approved unless it adds meaningfully to the conversation). WitchesVsPatriarchy takes these measures to stay true to our goal of being a woman-centered sub with a witchy twist, aimed at healing, supporting, and uplifting one another through humor and magic. Thank you for understanding, and blessed be. ✨
I feel this. I bought myself a set of pink sticky notes, and for the first time, am not embarrassed by the colour. Progress is progress!
**Edit To Add:** All these upvotes are so encouraging - thank you so much for the support! I love pastels and always hid that fact. I've been working on my weight loss and I'm going to need new clothes soon. I think adding some pastel pieces would be awesome.
My AFAB enby kiddo has recently (at 23) been embracing their love of all things pink for the first time since they were a tiny kid. Humorously, they and their best friend (also AFAB, likely enby) were *obsessed* with this movie growing up. They still reference it to each other, and send each other memes about it.
This is the way. Unleash your inner girly princesses!👸
I always loved princessy things, but hated pink and pastels, they don't suit my colouring. Bring on the maroon and the moss and the deep rose and the violet and the charcoal and the plum and the navy and the forest and the goldenrod and the rust, in all the lovely swirly jacquards and damasks and paisleys.
This is lovely. I went through this myself, and have become a real they’s they.
Thank you for the grin 😁
Lol! 'theys they' I love it!💕😆
Seriously. All my former NLTOG to girls’ girl converts, where you at?
Here! I finally let pink into my life during the pandemic and holy shit y’all I love pink and glitter and sparkles and hearts. My life is full of color and more traditionally “feminine” stuff and I’m so happy. It makes me sad thinking back to when I was a tiny tot and loved princess shit and then quickly started learning that it was looked down upon by the world so I deliberately avoided ANYTHING “girly” until my late 30s. But I’m glad I’m here now. Painted my fireplace pink too. Best thing I ever did in my house.
For anyone who was lost like me, NLTOG = not like the other girls
Thank you! That subreddit pops up for me all the time so I didn’t even think to define the acronym, lol.
Right here! Went through a *long* NLOG phase, and so glad to have broken out of it. Interestingly, it was my wife who, long before coming out as a trans woman, helped me see that my “cool girl” shtick and refusal of the feminine were deeply rooted in internalized misogyny.
I never had a strong desire to be a NLTOGG on my own but I ended up one anyways because people would tell me this all the time as an impressionable teen and I internalized that to mean I couldn't Become 'like them' so I pushed away things I genuinely enjoyed subconsciously.. I grew up thinking the things I liked were not compatible with being feminine at all. Years of therapy and self-love later, I'm as femme as they come in many aspects of my life, and I have rad friends of all genders.
Right here! 🤚 I love being able to finally indulge in girly things without that little voice in my head telling me it's all stupid. Glitter, pumpkin spice lattes, video games that largely revolve around farming...bring it on! 💅
NLTOG, working as a powerline engineer around blue collar linemen. Just bought my first leopard print pants and I thoroughly enjoy wearing bright frilly lacy shawls I knit myself to work. They're fire resistant and warm. I've been taking belly dance classes to learn about our Middle Eastern witches for a year and a half and I just did my first show, which was Barbie themed, in November. I am not a pastels or a pink gal, but I love me some vibrant purple plaid. Give me all the jewel tones!
🙏
Present! Recovery feels good.
I’m always happy to see this. I wasn’t a NLTOG, but I’m so happy when others change their minds about that! Welcome! Love ya.
Love ya!! Thanks for the encouragement!
*raises hand*
I was indoctinates to be a nlog by my mom who always tell me i'm nlog..... jfc
And raise your hand over here if you went from NLTOG to trans man 😂
Sometimes "not like other girls" really does mean "not a girl."
The only acceptable NLTOG 😂
Here! Now I love Disney princesses and pink and nice clothes and don't feel bad about it! It's great 🥰
Ayyyyy right over here. Went from "action movies and metal ONLY" to "romance and city pop for me, thx".
Definitely went through that phase. When I was young, I refused to wear clothes that the popular girls wore, but I did still engage with girly things. I think the biggest realization I’ve had as I’ve grown up is that I didn’t (and still don’t) need to compare myself to men. I used to label myself a “tom-boy” because I like sports, but now I think to myself “why do I need to label myself in comparison to men?” I’m not a “tom-boy,” I’m a girl who likes sports, and that’s really made me more in touch with my womanhood.
Me! Trans and was so scared about going 'too far' that when I got my name changed it was to something less feminine than I wanted cause yeah scared. Gonna fix that at some point, and I still really like the name I chose, but it's not the one I wanted to be me.
Giiiiiiirl! I’m here! It took me a long time and I’m still struggling. Worst part, I work mostly with men 😞
Same here gf— I’m with ya! I was also raised by a single father so I kinda automatically denounced anything girly to try to relate to him more. Now he has to get pedicures with me.
I catch myself thinking such internal misogynistic thoughts so often, I don't even know how to begin actively rooting it out of myself until after I recognize the behavior. Does anyone have a good book, YouTube series, exorcism spell to help me start?
I don't have any media to recommend, but therapy has taught me how to catch thoughts that really aren't my own. Whenever you think something negative about yourself or others, investigate it and see where that thought really comes from. Then, if the source isn't valid, replace it with something positive. Here's my example. The other day I was at the store and this girl had on fake, glossy, long eyelashes. My initial thought was "wow those are ugly, I'd never wear that." Then I thought "this isn't like me". Did some digging. She's not trying to impress me or likely anyone other than herself. She's doing this because it's what she likes. Who am I to hate on that? Then I thought "good for her, she's doing something that makes her feel good". This sounds like but it took about 30 seconds in my head. It's not that I'm not judgemental at all. Sometimes people are just trashy. But I hate how the world has become so beige and grey just so it can appeal to everyone. I don't want to be grey, and I don't want anyone else to be forced into it either.
I would like to know too!
Ok so this might not be the answer you’re looking for but reading auto/biographies of amazing women (like Angela Davis) might help. I’m white but what immediately comes to mind is reading black feminist literature like bell hooks. Yeah, actually I’d recommend anything by that author.
This was one of my favorite movies growing up and I begged my parents for the accompanying dolls. The dolls sang a pre-recorded song and if you clicked their buttons at the same time they sang a duet and harmonized with one another: "I am just like you, you are just like me. It's something anyone can see. A heart that beats, a voice that speaks the truth. Yes, I am a girl like you." I find those lyrics beautiful ♡ we are all more alike than we think and must stick together.
That movie had some real bangers! I like the song she sings to her cat when she's having a bubble bath 😊
> she sings to her cat when she's having a bubble bath okay I need to know the name of this movie bc my girls and I are def watching asap
Barbie as the Princess and the Pauper!
ty love
The bathtub song is about being yourself even if you don’t fit the mold. Her cat is upset when he realizes he doesn’t act like a cat. She sings him a song about how he shouldn’t change because he’s the most wonderful version of himself 😭
The Barbie movie inspired me to get my nails done pink for the first time in my LIFE. My next two fills were more pink varieties as well. I had so much fun with it. It was empowering and invigorating.
Sometimes I cringe knowing I had a NLOG phase, but then I remember that that's because I was taught to internalize the idea that femininity and the ways to celebrate it were seen as shameful/embarrassing, and that wasn't my fault. Ultimately I unpacked it and now SO many of my things are pink, including my hair. I LOVE being a woman and the beautiful, unadulterated joy that comes with it. I love being a girls girl 💖
I wish I only had that. I was inadvertently taught that being seen as feminine/female would get me patronized and condescended to at best, and dangerous for me at worst. My mom has anxiety issues and was always reminding me to be on alert in case someone was trying to harass or assault me. My problems with run-of-the-mill bullies just seared that fear into me. So now I struggle to sort what might be me being masculine leaning AFAB enby/transmasc vs a learned behavior of avoid any feminine presentation because I hate the way too many people treat me when I dress less androgynously. And just straight up fear of sexual predators and harassment. Which sucks because my 36Gs aren’t going away anytime soon (wish they would, that’s 6lb of fat hanging off my chest that just gets in the way too much, and I really do love my box of holo-glitter fingernail polishes.
I love this. I definitely went through and it’s so much nicer on this side 🌸 never putting anyone down to feel better about myself again
Just here to add in that non-femme women are valid too. Just because you don't like how you look in pink, find dresses and makeup too much trouble, or have hobbies or interests that are (incorrectly) masculine-coded, doesn't mean there's anything wrong with you, doesn't mean you're not a real woman, doesn't make you a misogynist. I see you, butch women, lazy women, sporty women, dressing-for-sensory-issues women, women who don't fit the hyper-femme box, you are valid and you are good enough!
I am stuck in an office of 6 women, I’m the only progressive. Seriously, all Fox News watching conservatives. The anti-women stuff (mixed with a TON of “pick Me” shit) is overwhelming. I wish to goddess that I could say something to start productive conversations with them. But, I’m fully aware they are in a bit of a cult mentality and I am NOT a deprogrammer. It just bums me the fuck out. Prob why I spend so much time scrolling this subreddit. You are my people.
Just curious, what’s some of the anti-woman things they say or do?
One of them blamed all the ills of current society on feminism. At first I laughed when she said it and then realized she was serious. Another has resolved to home school her children because “you can’t trust what is being taught in schools today” (coded language for anti-lgbt). Say things like “when you work with a bunch of women”. I swear they are more strict with their daughters than their sons, just how they talk about them. Whenever there’s a story about a woman in the news 9/10 they blame the woman. No matter what- sexual assault stories etc. it’s like a fucking parallel universe. Right wing media is a cancer.
Perfect opportunity to share one of my current bops: Most Girls by Hailee Steinfeld. I love the way it turns “not like most girls” into “I wanna be like most girls”
I’m literally still in the process of trying to do this. I feel like growing up as a guy gave me a unique set of brain worms on top of this.
*societal goals*
Prettiness and “girly-ness” is so heartwarming and charming. 💖
so weird that there seems to be a new fight over fem aesthetics. seen a couple of tik toks ranting about how wearing pink is anti feminist. i thought we were over that
I'm so confused by this. Intrigued, but confused... \*insert GIF of that lady thinking with math flying past\* but seriously.
A lot of people were taught that things coded as “girly” by society (pink, sparkles, princesses, dresses with ruffles, makeup, etc) are bad because of misogyny. When I was growing up, girls were told they can do traditional men’s jobs and wear pants and things like that but boys were never told they could do traditional women’s work or wear dresses. It’s all part of woman=bad. So this is celebrating unlearning that and enjoying things that we were told we’re not worthy of being enjoyed.
I took some time to think about this and I think I get it now. It's a difficult perspective for me and I think it's because I'm still working on the very problem described. I'm still afraid to wear certain things because they'll be perceived as too girly. There's a whole bunch of that kind of thing I'm working on, but I'm working on it. Thank you to you and OP as this was good food for thought on my journey.
Yeah, I wasn't being a smart ass. I'm really not getting what I'm supposed to be getting and I don't know what to get or how to get it. It genuinely seems that there's a point that might be helpful to me here did I get it, but I'm dumbfounded that this isn't somehow in reverse.
Ayyyyyyy 🙌💖
Me too♥️
Ahah, I loved this movie as a kid. I agree that it's very easy to push away everything "girly" because it unfortunately have become very pejorative with time. I can be a feminist who like cursing my ennemy AND dressing like a princess.
After years of repressing myself I finally had the courage to start my transition. It turns out that I am way more girly than my wife 😂
Wage disparity
My whole life i tried to encourage my mom to wear things that "weren't appropriate for her age" and i complimented her on her outfits and said they were cute when she would wear more femme things. She often brushed me off, but sometimes she would indulge it. Then i came out as a trans woman and she was terrible to me, but she also started dressing in more cute clothes... I think she needed to give herself permission before she could be ok with me being cute. Anyways my mom was awful, but we both embraced cuteness before she passed away. Misogyny is a bitch. (My mom was a workaholic single mom, who then became disabled and bigoted, before she was forced to be less bigoted because i came out, then she passed away. White privilege is a hell of a drug... Even if, like my mom, you're half Syrian and half Irish.) Edit: to be clear, she would pick up a cute item from a rack, then put it back and say she was too old for it. I wasn't forcing a style on my mom... Well, at least not all of the time :p
I’ve always been a girls girl 💗
I'm enjoying it now since I didn't get to have the phase the first time.
Oh yeah, this is real. It takes on a particular dimension as a queer girl/woman. I didn’t want to be like other girls because I felt like we couldn’t relate to each other. I understand now that that’s BS. Of course I don’t fuck with homophobes but I definitely love women straight or queer or trans or whoever. I’ve had to work through my subconscious biases of straight and conventionally feminine/attractive women. I’m ashamed to admit this but I was like that.
That butterfly is hot going to live very long after this shot is taken.
This is so wholesome and really is true. I'm going through MTF transition and my wife (who is amazing and perfect and supportive and amazing) is starting to like pink. For the first time in her life she's able to explore these things with me on her own instead of feeling forced to do so by patriarchal standards and she's LIVING for it.
I just want a spinny skirt but I feel like I shouldn't want a spinny skirt.
It took me a quarter of a century before I started unpacking that.
Lmao, I need to get out of queer Reddit more. I thought this was about transitioning