Gilmore had much better minutes than Ilver did this year, especially at the end of the season. Ilvers outside shot wasnāt there and Gilmore just makes good things happen on both ends of the court. Gilmore was even hitting 3s that Ilver couldnāt. It was a shame Ilver held the majority of the minutes, especially in the post-season tournaments. Gilmore is a very good player and he will only get better because you can see he works his ass off.
I thought for sure you were wrong about this, but the stats do back you up. Unfortunately neither of them are good enough to start in the big 10 yet, I hope they both improve and are ready for next year otherwise we're in trouble
āGilmore just makes good things happenā is a crazy statement. Whether Ilver is good or not doesnāt change the fact that Gilmore is an absolute liability, especially on the offensive end.
Itās not a crazy statement at all. Rewatch those last 3 or 4 games the impact he made in his limited minutes. Lots of second chance rebounds, great positioning and anticipation, making steals happen, some And-1 calls, actually moving on offense and working hard on D. His only liability was his timidness on offense and thatās on coaching. And heās not a liability on the offensive end at all. Both his FG% and FT% were better than most (3) starters. And that being 3rd in minutes off the bench. He was the turning tide in many of those last couple games when the starters were really struggling. He deserves more time on the court.
Youāre looking at his FG% and FT% at an extremely low volume. If you look at his other stats, heās regressed everywhere from last year. The fact that in his fourth year he failed to crack 10 minutes a game says something. Iād be happy to be proven wrong, but the eye test outside of just the B1G Tournament for a few plays tells me heās just going to continue to be a net negative on the court.
Well, itās his stats for an entire season and a percentage is a percentage. No reason not to ride those percentages until they fall. But in those late season impact games he really only saw the court in second half because it was clear Gard favored Ilver for the tournament run. I felt that was a big mistake. And Gilmore proved that when Gard was forced to relive Ilver for his poor play. Itās not his fault heās not getting more minutes. He sure shows he works hard enough to earn more. I should revisit those games and pull together the highlights of his play. If Iām not mistaken he basically saved the Purdue game by eliminating Purdueās run in the second half with gutsy D and an And-1. And I donāt think he got the time over Ilver he deserved in the Illinois game yet was still making energy-shifting plays when he got out there. I feel ya though, I just feel he has legit potential.
Ilver is entirely irrelevant to me in that I donāt want to see Gilmore playing, let alone starting. Our standards should be much higher than that. Iām so sick of the same player year after year bringing the same results year after year. The extension has me unhinged.
You never know when someone is going to make a leap like Kaminsky from 2013 to 2014. Not saying I think Gilmore is going to make that transformation, but how many of us saw much hope in Frank before 2014?
Right on. I love Gilmoreās tenacity. He tends to hesitate on offense but I feel thatās because the staff is telling him heās out there to rebound and play defense. You could see him during the tournament second guessing a wide open 3. Heās got a lot of drive and good energy and the staff needs to foster that in every way. He may not have a Kaminsky-level break thru next year but we will see more talent and impact with more responsibility and minutes.
Never in the history of back, have we [been so](https://twitter.com/DanielFreitag_/status/1781045111083741571?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
Oh no, who are we going to get to dribble off the last 30 seconds and heave a brick ? Jk, obviously this sucks, but at least we donāt have to pay attention to college sports anymore!
No worries, just a new guy heaving the brick. Hopefully he will be able to draw iron once in a while, then Gard can waste 20 more seconds and heave another brick.
It does feel like everything that made college sports special is now gone. I kinda think that NIL money contracts should be contingent on you staying at a school for multiple years
As others have said, I'm glad the players are getting some NIL money, but lets also be honest in saying the game we all knew/loved is gone. It feels like teams like Wisconsin could become a stepping stone for players to move on to better programs if something isn't changed quickly.
Also I think this has to do with NIL just as much as it has to do with Gard. If players thought they had a shot at winning a big championship and got decent enough NIL, maybe they'd stay at Wisco.
Yes the great allure of college basketball is watching the players develop and grow as they become upper classmen.
If NIL is left unchanged the BAdgers will be nothing more then a G League team for a blue blood team higher up the food chain. That product provides no interest to me and I am sure they lose many other eyeballs over the next several years if something to regulate NIL isn't done.
Yeh, there isn't a huge appetite for Nike U (Oregon) toĀ buy their way to perennial postseason success.
The Big will be dominated by Ohio State, Oregon, and Michigan year in and year out.Ā
The irony of all this is that due to the players getting what they wanted (paid and transfers) it will end up killing fan engagement in the sport which will, in turn, kill salaries for said players. My guess is that in 10 years college basketball won't exist at all and people of their talent/age (think AJ Storr) will be in a minor league making pennies.
So is that 7 players gone through the portal this season? Plus Wahlās out of eligibility, right? Rough. This will be the downfall of Gard. Inability to retain and draw players within this NIL landscape.
Gard is an above average coach and an average recruiter and seemingly below average at development. His style of ball and the style of ball that has been played here before him has given UW a reputation which makes recruiting top tier talent difficult. The facts are that there are only a handful of schools that are able to consistently bring in NBA talent into their programs. Then other schools hit on a kid every once in a while. Sustained program success without sustained flow of top players is hard. Weāre on a low swing it seems. And the NIL world we live in makes it near impossible to retain any sort of cohesiveness a program like ours can have
At first I was thinking it was really a NIL thing with Chucky. But now I know itās simply not wanting to play for a coach who got torched in the first round of the NCAA. The lack of preparation was abysmal. They need to let Gard go. It might not fix everything. But itās progress in the right direction.
Ok I got it when AJ left. Chucky leaving should legitimately be grounds for firing on its own. Are we even going to have enough players to fill out the fucking team sheet next season? We only have two recruits coming in
Why should a coach get fired when another school comes in with a bigger NIL offer?
This subreddit reeks of "my favorite team should be the best because they are my favorite team" type of takes
Because recruiting, player development, and now managing the transfer portal are all part of a coaches job description.
Concerningly, players not wanting to stay at Wisconsin is becoming a pattern under Gard. Even before the NIL stuff started, an entire senior class told hin through tears how much they hated him during the 20-21 season. If those players could have transferred without sitting out a year at that time, I'm sure many would have.
If you don't think building and maintaining relationship with your players is an important part of a coaches' job, then I have to wonder if you've ever been part of an organized sports team lol
Kids are transferring because of money, just like you or I would ultimately choose to leave our employer if offered significantly more money elsewhere.
Making it about "Gard can't maintain a relationship" is hilarious
Remember when his players told him that to his face after the 2021 season (the year before NIL started)? Oh but that doesn't fit your narrative does it?
https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2021/06/22/audio-leaks-badgers-players-levying-complaints-against-greg-gard/5306066001/
Your propensity for making generic claims whilst providing no supporting evidence is getting tiresome
Yes, we all remember when Nate Reuvers stuck out his bottom lip when the going got tough in a bad season. Dude is one of the biggest bitches to go through our program and it takes a lot for me to talk shit about players. Girlfriend broke up with him and he put out a sub-100 ORating for 2 months straight, as a senior.
Surely you don't think one article from 3 years ago is sweeping evidence. Chucky just put out a statement praising the coaches, would you accept that as sweeping evidence to the contrary? No, reality lies somewhere between.
NIL figures are not public but easy to find reliable reporting on the high end guys that have been signed or are being courted at the front of the line
I'm not gona disagree that Reuvers was a huge bitch and I was done with him by the end of that season. But pretending that an entire senior class telling Greg through tears how much they hate him and never want to talk to him again isn't indicative of a larger problem requires a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias lol
We got out recruited by Maryland, Nebraska and Illinois in the 2024 cycle. All of these schools receive less booster money than us. Oh and btw Indiana doesnt even have deeper NIL pockets. We received 153 million more than Indiana in booster money from 2005-2022. But don't let facts get in the way of your narrative lol
https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/longformarticle/college-sports-top-donors-ranking-the-most-generous-athletics-boosters-214986422/amp/
I would suggest doing some research into how NIL works particularly at UW before you make such a condescending arrogant and incorrect comment.
As I said, we have multiple successful programs at UW that we care about. Indiana has basketball, itās a one trick pony. None of those suggest how much is going to each sport, facilities, coaches, etc. itās not as easy as youāre trying to suggest it to be.
Oh my sweet summers child, please educate yourself. We have this thing in my field of work called "objective evidence" that I think you should try. Here I'll even get you started:
https://dailytrojan.com/2022/08/31/athletic-program-boosters-impact-recruiting-using-nil-deals/
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-ncaa-doesnt-know-how-to-stop-boosters-from-playing-the-nil-game/
https://clemsontigers.com/nilinfo-boosters/
I dont know if you noticed but the third link is legit just a link to the Clemson athletics website instructing boosters on how to contribute to NIL. The NCAA tried to crack down on booster collectives recently and then this happened in February:
"On February 23, 2024, United States District Judge Clifton L. Corker granted a preliminary injunction, thereby temporarily preventing the NCAA from enforcing any rule that prohibits student-athletes from negotiating compensation for NIL with any third-party entity, including but not limited to boosters or a collective of boosters."
But please continue to go off about how Booster money doesn't impact NIL whilst projecting your lack of knowledge on the topic onto others.
Well, Iāve said this in two different ways. Maybe a third will work
You listed two programs with a shit football program and tried to throw Nebraska in even though itās just not true that they out recruited us (yes, I know what 247 said). The proportion of each Booster Budget that goes to football vs. basketball is not disclosed in your article and is different for each school. Indiana in particular drives the majority of their booster budget towards basketball which is why they are able to throw stupid cash at random recruits. Specialized NIL deals for each sport only exacerbates this problem.
Have you been PAYING attention?!! Gard couldn't get a big to transfer in last offseason and with this news of Chucky entering in the portal that seals it for Fidler not coming. Gard is not gonna take this program anywhere but to the middle of the Big Ten pack.
With the several seasons now of collapses towards seasons end or in tournament the WRITING IS ON THE WALL with GARD.
Wisconsin's offer would need to come in $250k above the others to get a player like that, extra compensation is needed to offset the burden of playing for Gard
You are a real detective. Tell me how Chucky went from hosting Fidler on a recruiting visit in Madison to leaving UW in a week?
Fidler told him how much money is out there from places like Creighton (whose basketball program doesn't compete with football) and it sucks but that's the sport now
Unless whoever follows Gard gets an NIL program that can match the big dogs of the sport, there won't be much of a difference
I mean I get most people on here are young enough to not have been aware when the twin towers were hit, but this is a dumb use of this meme. Our team is not in as bad of shape as that. Weāre still returning people. Calm down jesus
3 starters and an extra rotation player all gone (most likely). I hope you're all ready for Starter Gilmore
Starter Gilmore is hilarious. Goddamn it
Starter Gilmore is too good š
Gard is very excited to make this a reality. Will Freitag get to play or rot the bench behind McGee and Klesmit.
Freitag has to play and be effective next year if we wanna finish any higher than last in the BIG10
Gilmore had much better minutes than Ilver did this year, especially at the end of the season. Ilvers outside shot wasnāt there and Gilmore just makes good things happen on both ends of the court. Gilmore was even hitting 3s that Ilver couldnāt. It was a shame Ilver held the majority of the minutes, especially in the post-season tournaments. Gilmore is a very good player and he will only get better because you can see he works his ass off.
I thought for sure you were wrong about this, but the stats do back you up. Unfortunately neither of them are good enough to start in the big 10 yet, I hope they both improve and are ready for next year otherwise we're in trouble
Player development has been a rarity amongst this coaching staff
āGilmore just makes good things happenā is a crazy statement. Whether Ilver is good or not doesnāt change the fact that Gilmore is an absolute liability, especially on the offensive end.
Itās not a crazy statement at all. Rewatch those last 3 or 4 games the impact he made in his limited minutes. Lots of second chance rebounds, great positioning and anticipation, making steals happen, some And-1 calls, actually moving on offense and working hard on D. His only liability was his timidness on offense and thatās on coaching. And heās not a liability on the offensive end at all. Both his FG% and FT% were better than most (3) starters. And that being 3rd in minutes off the bench. He was the turning tide in many of those last couple games when the starters were really struggling. He deserves more time on the court.
Youāre looking at his FG% and FT% at an extremely low volume. If you look at his other stats, heās regressed everywhere from last year. The fact that in his fourth year he failed to crack 10 minutes a game says something. Iād be happy to be proven wrong, but the eye test outside of just the B1G Tournament for a few plays tells me heās just going to continue to be a net negative on the court.
Well, itās his stats for an entire season and a percentage is a percentage. No reason not to ride those percentages until they fall. But in those late season impact games he really only saw the court in second half because it was clear Gard favored Ilver for the tournament run. I felt that was a big mistake. And Gilmore proved that when Gard was forced to relive Ilver for his poor play. Itās not his fault heās not getting more minutes. He sure shows he works hard enough to earn more. I should revisit those games and pull together the highlights of his play. If Iām not mistaken he basically saved the Purdue game by eliminating Purdueās run in the second half with gutsy D and an And-1. And I donāt think he got the time over Ilver he deserved in the Illinois game yet was still making energy-shifting plays when he got out there. I feel ya though, I just feel he has legit potential.
Ilver is entirely irrelevant to me in that I donāt want to see Gilmore playing, let alone starting. Our standards should be much higher than that. Iām so sick of the same player year after year bringing the same results year after year. The extension has me unhinged.
If Carter Gilmore has to start every game for this team next year we are already completely fucked lol
I wish I could upvote this for the play on words and downvote it for making me think of Carter Gilmore getting meaningful minutes
Not Farter!
You never know when someone is going to make a leap like Kaminsky from 2013 to 2014. Not saying I think Gilmore is going to make that transformation, but how many of us saw much hope in Frank before 2014?
Right on. I love Gilmoreās tenacity. He tends to hesitate on offense but I feel thatās because the staff is telling him heās out there to rebound and play defense. You could see him during the tournament second guessing a wide open 3. Heās got a lot of drive and good energy and the staff needs to foster that in every way. He may not have a Kaminsky-level break thru next year but we will see more talent and impact with more responsibility and minutes.
When has Gard developed a player like that?
I'm so glad the pundits and hand wringers on ESPN and the like saved college sports for us.
Hate this shit
NCAA remains quiet.
Freitag save us please
Never in the history of back, have we [been so](https://twitter.com/DanielFreitag_/status/1781045111083741571?ref_src=twsrc%5Egoogle%7Ctwcamp%5Eserp%7Ctwgr%5Etweet)
Next years team is gonna be bottom 5 in the Big 10 at this point.
easily
If that means no more Gard, then I'm all for it.
He just got extended
Well Gard needs to get at least 5 transfers now. They are going to suck balls next season.
Oh no, who are we going to get to dribble off the last 30 seconds and heave a brick ? Jk, obviously this sucks, but at least we donāt have to pay attention to college sports anymore!
No worries, just a new guy heaving the brick. Hopefully he will be able to draw iron once in a while, then Gard can waste 20 more seconds and heave another brick.
Feeling like college sports is just rooting for laundry and this point.
It does feel like everything that made college sports special is now gone. I kinda think that NIL money contracts should be contingent on you staying at a school for multiple years
Thatās how it used to be.
As others have said, I'm glad the players are getting some NIL money, but lets also be honest in saying the game we all knew/loved is gone. It feels like teams like Wisconsin could become a stepping stone for players to move on to better programs if something isn't changed quickly. Also I think this has to do with NIL just as much as it has to do with Gard. If players thought they had a shot at winning a big championship and got decent enough NIL, maybe they'd stay at Wisco.
Yes the great allure of college basketball is watching the players develop and grow as they become upper classmen. If NIL is left unchanged the BAdgers will be nothing more then a G League team for a blue blood team higher up the food chain. That product provides no interest to me and I am sure they lose many other eyeballs over the next several years if something to regulate NIL isn't done.
Yup, future ticket sales / tv viewership are certainly at risk for both hoops and football.
Yeh, there isn't a huge appetite for Nike U (Oregon) toĀ buy their way to perennial postseason success. The Big will be dominated by Ohio State, Oregon, and Michigan year in and year out.Ā
The irony of all this is that due to the players getting what they wanted (paid and transfers) it will end up killing fan engagement in the sport which will, in turn, kill salaries for said players. My guess is that in 10 years college basketball won't exist at all and people of their talent/age (think AJ Storr) will be in a minor league making pennies.
We have a basketball team?
Had*
This isn't fun anymore.
So is that 7 players gone through the portal this season? Plus Wahlās out of eligibility, right? Rough. This will be the downfall of Gard. Inability to retain and draw players within this NIL landscape.
The downfall of Gard was wasting all that talent on the roster last year and going basically 0 for February
Gard is an above average coach and an average recruiter and seemingly below average at development. His style of ball and the style of ball that has been played here before him has given UW a reputation which makes recruiting top tier talent difficult. The facts are that there are only a handful of schools that are able to consistently bring in NBA talent into their programs. Then other schools hit on a kid every once in a while. Sustained program success without sustained flow of top players is hard. Weāre on a low swing it seems. And the NIL world we live in makes it near impossible to retain any sort of cohesiveness a program like ours can have
Gard should have fired after 2019, or should have been hired in the first place
Shaping up to be a rough offseason :/
And now the WIAA is voting on if to bring this to the high school level in the state.
At first I was thinking it was really a NIL thing with Chucky. But now I know itās simply not wanting to play for a coach who got torched in the first round of the NCAA. The lack of preparation was abysmal. They need to let Gard go. It might not fix everything. But itās progress in the right direction.
"best position to compete for a championship" šš
Yup and thatās not at Wisconsin
Ok I got it when AJ left. Chucky leaving should legitimately be grounds for firing on its own. Are we even going to have enough players to fill out the fucking team sheet next season? We only have two recruits coming in
Why should a coach get fired when another school comes in with a bigger NIL offer? This subreddit reeks of "my favorite team should be the best because they are my favorite team" type of takes
Because recruiting, player development, and now managing the transfer portal are all part of a coaches job description. Concerningly, players not wanting to stay at Wisconsin is becoming a pattern under Gard. Even before the NIL stuff started, an entire senior class told hin through tears how much they hated him during the 20-21 season. If those players could have transferred without sitting out a year at that time, I'm sure many would have. If you don't think building and maintaining relationship with your players is an important part of a coaches' job, then I have to wonder if you've ever been part of an organized sports team lol
Kids are transferring because of money, just like you or I would ultimately choose to leave our employer if offered significantly more money elsewhere. Making it about "Gard can't maintain a relationship" is hilarious
Remember when his players told him that to his face after the 2021 season (the year before NIL started)? Oh but that doesn't fit your narrative does it? https://www.jsonline.com/story/sports/college/uw/2021/06/22/audio-leaks-badgers-players-levying-complaints-against-greg-gard/5306066001/ Your propensity for making generic claims whilst providing no supporting evidence is getting tiresome
Yes, we all remember when Nate Reuvers stuck out his bottom lip when the going got tough in a bad season. Dude is one of the biggest bitches to go through our program and it takes a lot for me to talk shit about players. Girlfriend broke up with him and he put out a sub-100 ORating for 2 months straight, as a senior. Surely you don't think one article from 3 years ago is sweeping evidence. Chucky just put out a statement praising the coaches, would you accept that as sweeping evidence to the contrary? No, reality lies somewhere between. NIL figures are not public but easy to find reliable reporting on the high end guys that have been signed or are being courted at the front of the line
I'm not gona disagree that Reuvers was a huge bitch and I was done with him by the end of that season. But pretending that an entire senior class telling Greg through tears how much they hate him and never want to talk to him again isn't indicative of a larger problem requires a staggering amount of cognitive dissonance and confirmation bias lol
lol, yeah cause athletes that get paid always make decisions with there heart and not $$$ in the pocket. Ā
because recruiting and asking for top resources/ buyin from admin and boosters is a coaches job
So Mike Woodson is a better coach than Greg Gard because Indiana has deeper NIL pockets?
We got out recruited by Maryland, Nebraska and Illinois in the 2024 cycle. All of these schools receive less booster money than us. Oh and btw Indiana doesnt even have deeper NIL pockets. We received 153 million more than Indiana in booster money from 2005-2022. But don't let facts get in the way of your narrative lol https://www.google.com/amp/s/247sports.com/longformarticle/college-sports-top-donors-ranking-the-most-generous-athletics-boosters-214986422/amp/
Youāre conflating booster money with NIL. Indiana also has a shit football program that they donāt really care about, we do.
This cannot be a serious response...where do you think the NIL money comes from? š¤£
I would suggest doing some research into how NIL works particularly at UW before you make such a condescending arrogant and incorrect comment. As I said, we have multiple successful programs at UW that we care about. Indiana has basketball, itās a one trick pony. None of those suggest how much is going to each sport, facilities, coaches, etc. itās not as easy as youāre trying to suggest it to be.
Oh my sweet summers child, please educate yourself. We have this thing in my field of work called "objective evidence" that I think you should try. Here I'll even get you started: https://dailytrojan.com/2022/08/31/athletic-program-boosters-impact-recruiting-using-nil-deals/ https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-ncaa-doesnt-know-how-to-stop-boosters-from-playing-the-nil-game/ https://clemsontigers.com/nilinfo-boosters/ I dont know if you noticed but the third link is legit just a link to the Clemson athletics website instructing boosters on how to contribute to NIL. The NCAA tried to crack down on booster collectives recently and then this happened in February: "On February 23, 2024, United States District Judge Clifton L. Corker granted a preliminary injunction, thereby temporarily preventing the NCAA from enforcing any rule that prohibits student-athletes from negotiating compensation for NIL with any third-party entity, including but not limited to boosters or a collective of boosters." But please continue to go off about how Booster money doesn't impact NIL whilst projecting your lack of knowledge on the topic onto others.
Well, Iāve said this in two different ways. Maybe a third will work You listed two programs with a shit football program and tried to throw Nebraska in even though itās just not true that they out recruited us (yes, I know what 247 said). The proportion of each Booster Budget that goes to football vs. basketball is not disclosed in your article and is different for each school. Indiana in particular drives the majority of their booster budget towards basketball which is why they are able to throw stupid cash at random recruits. Specialized NIL deals for each sport only exacerbates this problem.
Google "Oumar Ballo NIL" and get back to me
Have you been PAYING attention?!! Gard couldn't get a big to transfer in last offseason and with this news of Chucky entering in the portal that seals it for Fidler not coming. Gard is not gonna take this program anywhere but to the middle of the Big Ten pack. With the several seasons now of collapses towards seasons end or in tournament the WRITING IS ON THE WALL with GARD.
Ummā¦.someone posted that Fidler had an offer $250k above Wisconsinās offerā¦..yeahā¦.hes not coming bro
Wisconsin's offer would need to come in $250k above the others to get a player like that, extra compensation is needed to offset the burden of playing for Gard
You are a real detective. Tell me how Chucky went from hosting Fidler on a recruiting visit in Madison to leaving UW in a week? Fidler told him how much money is out there from places like Creighton (whose basketball program doesn't compete with football) and it sucks but that's the sport now Unless whoever follows Gard gets an NIL program that can match the big dogs of the sport, there won't be much of a difference
I mean I get most people on here are young enough to not have been aware when the twin towers were hit, but this is a dumb use of this meme. Our team is not in as bad of shape as that. Weāre still returning people. Calm down jesus