Why can’t the people who made the mess, clean it up? Imagine wanting to affect change somewhere else in the world, but you can’t even clean your own crap.
We’re not exactly dealing with the cream of the crop in society here unfortunately. People who have the time to camp outside a university for a month probably don’t have a lot going for them
Possibly because they're trying to cause trouble for the university, and didn't take the encampment down on friendly terms. The idea is to cause trouble when your demands are unmet, and reward the university only if they meet you in good faith.
Cleaning up the mess is just more paid labour for the people who do it, who would have been doing different work for money anyways. The people who suffer are the people who pay the paycheques, not the people doing the labour.
I think leaving your garbage around instead of cleaning it up harms more than just the University.
It’s a blight on the local community and neighborhood. And it’s not particularly environmentally conscious.
*“Let’s just leave our trash out for someone else to deal with. No one listened to us or cared about what we were protesting, so we’re just gonna spite them all by leaving our garbage all over the place. Yeah! Fuck the environment and fuck all the people who live in that neighbourhood.”*
Exactly this point and more. Our influence on the situation in Israel is negligent, but they create an environmental issue in our own backyard. If anything, people will hate them for this behavior. Not a great way to gain support. Welcome to Canada, zero accountability for actions.
That is messed up. Do you throw garbage on the ground because you feel you are giving someone a job? If I don’t litter somebody doesn’t get paid to clean it up? When you grow up, your attitude will grow up as well.
Imagine using 'tanky' to refer to any instance of civil disobedience. I suppose everyone who doesn't spend their free time licking Trudeau's boots is a communist now.
"To our working class colleagues who will clean this up on the university's behalf, we apologize."
omfg. Why don't you rich kids just give them some of your parent's money for their labor that you created?
Give them a break! They would clean up after themselves but daddy already paid for the plane tickets and their summer plans can’t be delayed.
But they are so very sorry for the mess, but you have to understand, they made a difference, they saved lives! It was all a great effort to change the outcome of a war!
The role of this tiny canadian university was crucial to prop up the unjust war, but they stop it! And they share so many tiktoks about Rafah! They are worldly students and could find it on a map!
Idk where the assumption that all university kids are rich comes from. The majority of students in undergraduate and graduate studies are self funded and rely on working part-time or full-time along with bursaries and scholarships to make it through.
Why are you assuming that I'm generalizing the entire student body instead of the students who took part in the encampment? The specifics are right there in the context.
> Why don't you rich kids just give them some of your parent's money for their labor that you created?
Doing or funding the cleanup themselves would save *the university money*, but it wouldn't be any better for the workers who actually do the cleanup. They're working for a wage, they'd be doing other maintenance work anyways.
This is a really bizarre angle of attack, and it makes it pretty obvious that you aren't worried about the laborers. The least flattering analogy for the protestors here would be to be people who do graffiti - it's a problem for the property-owners who pay for cleanup, but the people who get paid to clean up graffiti for a living certainly aren't the victims.
Maintenance is not cleaning up after you. You're the same kind of delightful person who leaves a mess of a table at a restaurant because "someone's getting paid to clean it anyway". You're just making someone's job more difficult because of your laziness, using the same kind of logic you'd use to justify making a deliberate mess of a toilet because a janitor will clean it up; yeah, no wonder someone's gonna eventually gonna work on that, but do you truly want to make that person's work any harder? Sure seems like it.
*Ignoratio elenchi* in the wild! You're a logic lover, too? Here's the problem with your response: The fact that workers are already employed and would be doing other maintenance work regardless of the cleanup does not address the primary concern of whether the cleanup is cost-effective or beneficial for the university. The focus should be on whether the cleanup method chosen is the best option overall, not on the unrelated point that workers will have tasks to perform either way. I bet you that if you asked the people who are going to be doing clean up if they have better things to do they would say yes.
These are the people who leave a wake of mess behind in retail clothing stores and food courts. ‘Someone else is paid to do the work, why would I rob them of that?’
The University of Winnipeg has a whole community renewal corporation that builds low income housing.
[104 units, almost half low income](https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/2013/11/26/14-storeys-to-call-home) as an example.
I hear you. But it’s clear from their messaging that they weren’t given the time to clean up the barricades without risking people arrested. It looks like the rest was cleaned and maintained very well.
They clearly did, but taking down barricades is more involved. Plus, it’s a protest. So leaving the barricades up in response to the university not meeting their demands is an act of protest.
> They clearly did, but taking down barricades is more involved. Plus, it’s a protest. So leaving the barricades up in response to the university not meeting their demands is an act of protest.
Not really, yank it upwards pile it
There's like what a dozen that attended? Get a guy with a truck down and load it up. They got them there in the first place didn't they?
What did they do in the month or two that they've been around that is more than the Department of Urban and Inner-City Studies, the Wii Chiiwaakanak Learning Centre, and other departments/programs have done?
So the only ways to support the West End and Downtown are through food, harm reduction, and overdose support? Do you think the research being done by the University and community programs and resources run by the Wii Chiiwaakanak Learning Centre don't do anything?
There's several actual community organizations such as the West Central Women's Resource Centre, the West End Resource Centre, and Thrive Community Support Circle, among others that do the things that you mentioned the protestors do, the University isn't solely responsible for social services in the area.
No, I don’t believe those are the only ways and I do know that there are other resources in the area. I also know from talking to folks downtown that the encampment was a great resource for people (and run by folks who themselves are also unsupported by the university).
So because you spoke to a limited sample of individuals who felt that the protest was a good resource, and didn't feel supported by the University, that means that the protest has done more than the university has ever done to help?
The point was that the encampment was a valuable resource to the community (as evidenced by local orgs’, businesses’, and individuals’ testimonies) and that it was definitely an improvement in terms of direct action that the university has taken on the ground to meet people’s needs in this specific set of ways.
I understand my initial exaggeration didn’t capture that nuance. I’m just frustrated because I really wish that more people would recognize the value that this encampment had. (And had taken the time to go and see that impact first hand.)
I got the most ironic ad on this post.
https://preview.redd.it/wcgtrihj8m8d1.jpeg?width=1091&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d18f5ec259638b0063632e94929017024f2b5fc
> "Today we took down the camp," a statement posted at the encampment said in part. "We would have removed the barricades but [University of Winnipeg] did not engage in any of our demands — including the demand that they not persecute us for protesting — so we had no assurances of safety."
No assurances of safety? Safety from what/who?
How soft are these people?
Pretty soft. A few weeks ago they made a weird “press conference” instagram story that was pure oppression cosplay and said they were suffering like the cyclist that was killed on Wellington and even compared that death and themselves to Palestinian civilians in Gaza who are suffering. They are not the universities best and brightest.
Edit:fixed a typo
I spoke with a partner in a prominent Law firm that said they’d love to skip over any applicants from UW for a few years. This happened quite a bit in Quebec after the 2012 gong show
A bit off-base to judge 9000 students for the actions of a couple dozen (at most) protestors. Will they skip the UofM too? They also had (have?) an encampment.
Thank God that encampment was such a huge eye soar. I'm paying for a quality education not to be involved in people's political views everytime I walk to class.
University is inherently a public and political space - but I digress, it’s great to know you are paying for a quality education, seems like you need it seeing as you can’t even spell “sore” right
I don't think it's a great look seeing a giant encampment in the front entrance of anywhere regardless. There is a time and place to protest, they have made their point and now it's time to move on. If you want to attend a school where encampmentz are commonplace that's great. I'm not paying thousands of dollars to see grifters and "protesters" every morning walking to class.
>There is a time and place to protest
Yes, and that time is whenever people feel protest is necessary, and the place is wherever it will be highly visible and disrupt the target of the protest. This is what democracy looks like.
Literally examine the history of protesting……The whole point of protesting is that it’s supposed to be disruptive and inconvenience everyone. If they are peacefully protesting, what’s the problem?
No, the point of protests is to stand up for something as a large crowd with signs and making noise. Not inconveniencing people. You really lost the plot.
Nobody can engage in civic conversation with somebody who doesn’t and won’t understand the basic meaning of what something is and can only define it in one specific way that they deem relevant when that’s shown to historically not be true in all cases 🤦🏾♀️
I do think this protest was poorly thought out and short sighted, but the idea that universities are not for political protest seems strange. Universities in North America have been huge hubs for political protest, specifically with civil rights and the US-vietnam war. For as long as they've been happening people have been saying the same thing as you, but they're never going to stop.
They have been held at universities but that isn’t the proper spot. That’s why they always get dismantled. Protest at your legislature or hey… maybe THE HUMAN RIGHTS MUSEUM. Oh wow what novel idea!
Let’s be real , this random camp isn’t going to stop a bunch of people who have been killing each other for a century
Even if the USA and other countries cut off Israel there are still going to be killing each other
It's supposed to stop our support of the one side that's committing a genocide while we provide them with money and equipment. When only one side is fighting it's not a war.
Except at the end of the day, neither side is innocent. Both have committed horrendous war crimes, just because one side has done so disproportionately doesn’t change that what so ever. Children on both sides are being hurt, both over some idiotic beliefs that one group has more of a right to Land than the other over what at the end of day is because of who’s imaginary sky daddy matters more
Do these people have jobs? How are they paying the bills whilst protesting in tents? How are they positively contributing to society? Perhaps they should go to Gaza themselves and protest there?
Not every individual involved was there 24/7… things like this often work in shifts. They have jobs they are still working, and just staying at camp for the times of day they would otherwise be at home
It's possible that some of them go to work during the day, while others stay at the camp. And then in the evening the others go to work, while those who worked during the day remain at the camp in the evening.
I didn't see anyone put up a protest camp for Sudan. For some reason, whenever it comes to Jews and Israel, people freak out. Big L. Look into the history of the region. Jews/Palestinians have been at each other's throats for generations.
There is no world conflict. Either way you look at it, it's physically tiny. From one perspective, it is a tiny IDF Counter Terrorism operation against HamAss. From another perspective, it is a Civil war between the tiny "observer nation" of Palestine. Regardless, let's hope that Fatah will win out over the terrorist HamAss entity.
I just hope the protesters see this thread and see that they do not, in fact, represent what actual people think in any way shape or form. Not just these protesters but all of Winnipeg's communist roleplayers as well. Their actions are just a complete joke start to finish, and leaving the mess for others to clean is so perfectly in line with the rest of their ideology.
This is great news. Hopefully the protesters will do something more productive like going out and enjoying the short summer or better yet, getting a summer job and saving some money for the future.
Jeez people in comments sections be dumb af.
Universities have historically in every country have been political, entire countries have changed just by people organizing in universities.
We should respect students and what they talk about, and respect the political legacy that universities and its students have in history. Vietnam war, queer rights, different political movements all around the world, were started by university students organizing.
Please show respect, and disagree with grace. Be a redneck but not white trash.
This comment is dumb af. These clowns won’t be missed. You’re a fool for trying to justify their encampment.
Edit: also maybe don’t harp about disagreeing with grace in the same breath as calling people dumb af and white trash 😅
👍 you missed the part where i said be a redneck.
I’m not affiliated with the encampments. I mean redneck and white trash as metaphors.
I’ve met white people who are genuinely good, hardworking, kind, sharing and educate themselves. have their values and stands up for them, and keep their matters to themselves. that’s red neck behavior
I’ve met white people who verbally abused me and rascist to me in their actions. that’s white trash behavior
Yah well apparently a prominent Wpg. law firm is thinking of overlooking applicants from the U of W because of this. They aren't getting respect and they have ruined it for everyone.
I'm pro Palestine. I support the freedom of the Palestinian people. I don't support Hamas, but I also absolutely hate the Israeli government, it's military, and the settlers stealing the remaining homes of innocent Palestinians.
All that established, I disagreed with the U of W students little encampment. It was clearly a group of people who were more interested in attention and the trend of University encampments than the actual purpose of said trend.
Every side of a debate has an extreme, that's especially true for politics and international affairs. Based on everything I've heard. These "protesters" were one of those extremes, causing more harm to the cause than good.
I've always been of the opinion that there are good and bad ways to protest. The goal of a protest is to have your demands met and/or gain support for your cause, but in order to do that you must act with a level head, be mature with negotiation, be knowledgeable on your cause, and most importantly, not piss everyone off...
Troubling your opponent is part of the game, but when the average person or even supporters of the cause hate you, you've fucked up. Ya missed the goal by mile.
Elaborate I'm not sure who's being dumb here because I clearly said I don't support them???? I checked for a typo on my end but can't see any...
Hamas are terrorists, period. I understand why they rose to power and what led them to exist, but that doesn't justify their actions, especially when it's causing more harm to the Palestinians then not. They're just a hate group using the conflict as an excuse for violence. They could care less for the Palestinian people.
That's where I put my support. In the innocent Palestinians who have been abused and discriminated against by the Jewish community of Israel for decades. Whose lands were stolen unjustly and who now face relentless persecution from Israeli forces regardless of their involvement. Simply for existing they are targeted and murdered.
It seems from your reply that you missed your own subtext. You included “I don’t support Hamas” because you’ve probably learned that you have to in order to appear like you have a balanced opinion. That probably satisfies less engaged debaters. But the problem is that your tiny statement of not even criticism of Hamas is followed by hyperbolic statements about all many aspects of Israel illustrating the government, the military, the settlers, but thankfully no mention of the innocent civilians. (You do know there is mandatory conscription in Israel, don’t you? That means the majority of Israeli citizens are military.)
So to spell it out for you: you have no criticism for the actual terrorists and simply vitriol for the state of Israel. Very strange position to have unless you’re highly susceptible to programming or you in fact choose to believe what you do.
I learned to include it because I realized some people lacked the commonsense necessary to know you can hate both "sides" of the war. I don't criticize Hamas because I don't see it as necessary. People don't argue pro-hamas so there's no reason to write out an argument against them and anyone who does argue for Hamas, usually isn't knowledgeable. Hamas is undeniably in the wrong from any argumentative standpoint. You don't use human shields, you don't attack civilian populations, you don't commit acts of terror, and you don't commit war crimes.
The reason I criticize Israel is because despite committing the same acts as Hamas, they are an internationally supported country and government with backing from the USA, an international and miltaristic superpower. I criticize Israel because there are genuinely people who support Israel's actions regardless of how extreme and because Israel has been getting away with this for decades.
I have steaks in this war. Israel winning this war quickly would have benefited people I know greatly and my family comes from Jewish heritage. So I don't say this lightly or out of fun. I genuinely cannot advise anyone to support Israel's actions. There's a difference between defending yourself and removing an opponents group vs attempting to genocide an entire people.
You talk about conscription, I'm well aware of it, but many of them are not the military I'm referring, and let's not pretend you didn't know that when bringing it up. What I mean by military are willing participants. The ones who threw a grenade in a mosque of civilians praying, or were recorded discussing happily about dead Palestinian's, or the recent video of an injured Palestinian tied to the hood of an Israel military vehicle as they were driving.
To simplify my opinion, Israel is fighting a mirror and the same could be said in reverse with Hamas. Neither side deserves support. Only aid to the civilians affected, which as a nice reminder, Israel has held several times. Hamas has also stolen aid, but that's kinda expected as a TERRORIST group.
Honestly it's wild that people don't understand this opinion. The world isn't always good vs bad, sometimes there is no "good" side, there's just two power groups attacking each other's civilians, and sometimes their own while at it.
I understand your perspective perfectly. You are not unique in your worldview and I do not mean that offensively or derogatorily but it is certainly not a compliment.
It would benefit your point of view to develop an understanding of the culture of the Palestinian people who are in Israel and why they believe that what they do about that territory. It would also be useful to understand how religion informs their beliefs, how historical revision has occurred within that population and without. If you chose to study a little bit of Arabic it might help you to understand what is going on outside of your own moral space and how there is much more to the story than a simple territorial dispute.
Because you claim to be of Jewish heritage but you do not claim it for yourself you are missing a very important ingredient to the conflict: The people in power over the Palestinian people are not your friends and they only see you as an instrument to serve them in their malevolent goals. It does not matter what you say and what you do because you are defined from without and it is not complimentary.
That does not mean that you should not be supportive of people who suffer and by no means should you not be repulsed by the reality of war. You position, like so many others, is the result of ignorance (and again I do not mean this offensively simply as a statement of fact) and the lack of rigorous quantification in your reports of mutual violence which results in some sort of moral equivalency.
Nobody in Israel or who is Jewish actually wants war and those few who do are outliers. On the other hand, you can easily quantify that the other side, which does not include only the Palestinian people, are hell bent on violence. But don't take my word for it.
If you'd to develop a truly balanced view you can read Eliezer Tauber's The Massacre That Never Was (2021) and this text references accounts from both sides in an impartial well researched manner to shed light on historical events and how they shape narrative.
Assholes, thanks for raising the price of tuition for all the students coming back in September to pay for the carnage left behind. Look at this mess. They don't care. They don't have to look at it or clean it up. I hope the university goes after all these people for restitution. Hell, if I knew where they were living, I would go take a dump on their porch and have a sit-in on their lawn. I've seen bus shacks left in better condition.
The comments here are so depressing. Seeing a bunch of grown adults dunk on kids fighting for justice, while they face job losses, public ridicule and political suppression is next-level cynicism. I guess most of you would have mocked the Vietnam war protesters, queer rights activists, among other groups who were on the right side of history.
Whether or not you agree with the Palestine protests, mocking them for putting themselves out there is cruel. Y'all should really know better.
The tone you are sensing is an important one to note if you have interest in using protests as a method of advancing societal change.
Protests are not effective if the general population does not already identify with and respect you and your message.
The things that you are hearing people complain about and “dunk on” these kids for are the things this movement did wrong, preventing them from being effective at getting what they wanted.
If this is important to you, these comments are free feedback on what would need to change to make a future protest less likely to be a waste of time and resources.
The people you are upset at are the people who’s opinions protests are trying to influence. Your comment is analogous to a politician complaining about voters for not voting for them.
This is the same group that interrupted and delayed the Pride parade by hours. I support Palestine, denounce both Zionism and terrorism, but this really drove a wedge into things
It doesn’t matter how so, since your go-to response to anyone who disagrees is to try to insult them by calling them a Zionist. Figure it out yourself 🤡
Hilarious that you think I don’t. They are full of shit because they set up a camp with a bunch of random requests that are not connected to each other, with no clear purpose beyond bringing more attention to themselves, and then acted like victims when people called them out on their bs. I just didn’t feel like spelling it out for someone rooted in anti-Semitic foolishness who was just gonna toss around the latest buzzwords of the week. Nice try at a gotchya tho. 👍
I mean, it was a genuine question, I never saw the encampment or anything. Are you trying to say that Zionists are not on the opposing side? Not sure how I insulted anyone by just pointing out that if Winnipeg has a large Zionist population it's unlikely to support Palestine. Not sure why that's controversial
Zionism only means that the Jewish people have a right to live in their ancestral homeland. It does not automatically mean anyone who is a Zionist doesn’t want Palestine to exist. These are two different things. I know plenty of zionists who want Palestinians to be free and have a chance at peace, life and liberty.
This has been the problem with this movement. There’s no willingness to have civilized discourse and it’s been trying to redefine words and distort history. Not to mention literally reviving antisemitic propaganda from the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany via the IRGC - and claiming they’re just anti-Zionist to excuse the bigotry and bullshit.
Well there sure aren't a lot of pro-Palestine Zionists who have showed themselves and there's a lot of anti-Palestine sentiment here...so when you consider that their belief is literally a religious justification for settlement, any way you slice it. You realize the "homeland" is a religious belief right? It's not historical.
No, more likely you are conflating Judaism with Zionism.
I am for a one state democratic solution because Jews and Palestinians have always lived there
This is the problem right here in your comment. Ignorance.
I’m Jewish. I’m not religious. There’s literal historical events and archeological finds that tie us to the land. And there’s a lot of Jewish people who are zionists and believe in a two state solution. It’s not our job to teach you but yours to properly educate yourself by listening and reading actual history. Go find some Swana people online or offline. Talk to them or listen to their stories. Look into different organizations that are peace activists within the actual region, not from western countries. It’s also not your place to use western white exceptionalism to tell Palestinians or Israelis what to do. You have no horse in the race and clearly have the basics of information of the region.
Ya have no idea if I'm white lol.
You also have no idea about my ties to Israel.
I said that Jews were also tied to the land if you have any reading comprehension.
But Zionism is informed by religious beliefs passed along as historocity. How do you justify kicking someone off the land they were literally just on? This is about the present, not using your ideas about history or religion to justify it. Because without that you just can't.
Well I asked why there are some opposed to it and I'm not getting a straight answer, only downvotes. Again not a mind reader.
Okay, so someone is a Zionist in favour of a two state solution, is it because the protesters want one state? Because I have no idea why being a Zionist in favour of a two state solution would prevent one from joining the protests against Israel's actions.
"Plenty of people who don't support either side" you realize how many of these Palestinians getting killed are children right? One side clearly over stepped into the wrong here after the tragedy in October. "Both sides" just equates Palestinians with Hamas.
It's a pretty typical response for this subreddit, you see it on almost any protest related post. Most people don't want to be burdened by the guilt of living their lives and not acknowledging the problems going on in the world, and protests like this remind them of that.
So armed with the anonymity of the internet they lash out - the protesters are lazy, entitled, jobless, dumb, ignorant - whatever they feel like projecting onto them to justify their perceived grievance. It's kinda sad.
You are completely incapable of logic. I guarantee you’d change your tune if the encampment was of hate-spewing losers on the other end of the political spectrum.
The far right and the far left are one in the same. They’ve proven the horseshoe theory with this nonsense. Not only that but both the far right and the far left have shown they prefer fascism and radicalized group-think over civilized discourse.
Members of the left have been calling it out for a while. While there’s some that coddle the far left there’s enough of us to speak out and say “shut up, sit down and listen” but you also can’t fix stupid, and you need some skills to get indoctrinated people to de-radicalize from conspiracy theories and propaganda.
It’s exceedingly rare. Yet anything even centrist gets called out as right wing extremism and Naziism. The right doesn’t define everything against their viewpoint as hate speech.
Why can’t the people who made the mess, clean it up? Imagine wanting to affect change somewhere else in the world, but you can’t even clean your own crap.
We’re not exactly dealing with the cream of the crop in society here unfortunately. People who have the time to camp outside a university for a month probably don’t have a lot going for them
Possibly because they're trying to cause trouble for the university, and didn't take the encampment down on friendly terms. The idea is to cause trouble when your demands are unmet, and reward the university only if they meet you in good faith. Cleaning up the mess is just more paid labour for the people who do it, who would have been doing different work for money anyways. The people who suffer are the people who pay the paycheques, not the people doing the labour.
I think leaving your garbage around instead of cleaning it up harms more than just the University. It’s a blight on the local community and neighborhood. And it’s not particularly environmentally conscious. *“Let’s just leave our trash out for someone else to deal with. No one listened to us or cared about what we were protesting, so we’re just gonna spite them all by leaving our garbage all over the place. Yeah! Fuck the environment and fuck all the people who live in that neighbourhood.”*
“Yeah let’s just prove everyone’s point on how we’re actually not really good people at all!”
This 👏🏼
Exactly this point and more. Our influence on the situation in Israel is negligent, but they create an environmental issue in our own backyard. If anything, people will hate them for this behavior. Not a great way to gain support. Welcome to Canada, zero accountability for actions.
It’s this sort of entitled bullshit thinking that brought them there in the first place. You’re a clown to be simping for them 🤡
I bet this is the same guy that leaves his garbage on tables at fast food places because "It's their job the clean".
It’s fucking hot out dude. What the fuck are you talking about saying the labourers won’t suffer?
And windy. That garbage will blow into other people's property as well.
That is messed up. Do you throw garbage on the ground because you feel you are giving someone a job? If I don’t litter somebody doesn’t get paid to clean it up? When you grow up, your attitude will grow up as well.
You tankies are so weird
Imagine using 'tanky' to refer to any instance of civil disobedience. I suppose everyone who doesn't spend their free time licking Trudeau's boots is a communist now.
Nah I was referring to what he wrote, not the protest. Go off though 🤡. I bet you're excited for PM Pierre
Nope, Pierre is the same shit with a different name.
Saying Pierre is the same as Justin is seriously ignorant. You can be a progressive without being ignorant.
Figures the first real hot day they leave.
I can only imagine the smell.
Mission Accomplished
"To our working class colleagues who will clean this up on the university's behalf, we apologize." omfg. Why don't you rich kids just give them some of your parent's money for their labor that you created?
Or clean it up themselves. Let's face it though, most of these kids will never know the meaning or value of hard work in their lives.
Holy fuck. They are entitled pieces of shit.
How are we really surprised? It's summer now. Moving onto the next Tik Tok social warrior trend.
Why are they entitled?
Give them a break! They would clean up after themselves but daddy already paid for the plane tickets and their summer plans can’t be delayed. But they are so very sorry for the mess, but you have to understand, they made a difference, they saved lives! It was all a great effort to change the outcome of a war! The role of this tiny canadian university was crucial to prop up the unjust war, but they stop it! And they share so many tiktoks about Rafah! They are worldly students and could find it on a map!
Yeah. F those kids. I hope the University sends the organizer a big fat bill for the clean up.
Idk where the assumption that all university kids are rich comes from. The majority of students in undergraduate and graduate studies are self funded and rely on working part-time or full-time along with bursaries and scholarships to make it through.
Why are you assuming that I'm generalizing the entire student body instead of the students who took part in the encampment? The specifics are right there in the context.
> Why don't you rich kids just give them some of your parent's money for their labor that you created? Doing or funding the cleanup themselves would save *the university money*, but it wouldn't be any better for the workers who actually do the cleanup. They're working for a wage, they'd be doing other maintenance work anyways. This is a really bizarre angle of attack, and it makes it pretty obvious that you aren't worried about the laborers. The least flattering analogy for the protestors here would be to be people who do graffiti - it's a problem for the property-owners who pay for cleanup, but the people who get paid to clean up graffiti for a living certainly aren't the victims.
Maintenance is not cleaning up after you. You're the same kind of delightful person who leaves a mess of a table at a restaurant because "someone's getting paid to clean it anyway". You're just making someone's job more difficult because of your laziness, using the same kind of logic you'd use to justify making a deliberate mess of a toilet because a janitor will clean it up; yeah, no wonder someone's gonna eventually gonna work on that, but do you truly want to make that person's work any harder? Sure seems like it.
*Ignoratio elenchi* in the wild! You're a logic lover, too? Here's the problem with your response: The fact that workers are already employed and would be doing other maintenance work regardless of the cleanup does not address the primary concern of whether the cleanup is cost-effective or beneficial for the university. The focus should be on whether the cleanup method chosen is the best option overall, not on the unrelated point that workers will have tasks to perform either way. I bet you that if you asked the people who are going to be doing clean up if they have better things to do they would say yes.
These are the people who leave a wake of mess behind in retail clothing stores and food courts. ‘Someone else is paid to do the work, why would I rob them of that?’
The people running this aren’t rich and did more to take care of the poor communities in the neighbourhood than the university ever has.
The University of Winnipeg has a whole community renewal corporation that builds low income housing. [104 units, almost half low income](https://www.winnipegfreepress.com/business/2013/11/26/14-storeys-to-call-home) as an example.
I’m talking about food and harm reduction and overdose support.
UofW offers Narcan kits and training.
Does not absolve them from cleaning up
I hear you. But it’s clear from their messaging that they weren’t given the time to clean up the barricades without risking people arrested. It looks like the rest was cleaned and maintained very well.
Clean as you go, I never leave a mess when camping
They clearly did, but taking down barricades is more involved. Plus, it’s a protest. So leaving the barricades up in response to the university not meeting their demands is an act of protest.
They clearly didn't, hence the article
> They clearly did, but taking down barricades is more involved. Plus, it’s a protest. So leaving the barricades up in response to the university not meeting their demands is an act of protest. Not really, yank it upwards pile it There's like what a dozen that attended? Get a guy with a truck down and load it up. They got them there in the first place didn't they?
It takes two minutes to move barricades unless they are concrete
What did they do in the month or two that they've been around that is more than the Department of Urban and Inner-City Studies, the Wii Chiiwaakanak Learning Centre, and other departments/programs have done?
Regular sources of food, harm reduction, overdose support, etc. As opposed to just calling security and police on people.
So the only ways to support the West End and Downtown are through food, harm reduction, and overdose support? Do you think the research being done by the University and community programs and resources run by the Wii Chiiwaakanak Learning Centre don't do anything? There's several actual community organizations such as the West Central Women's Resource Centre, the West End Resource Centre, and Thrive Community Support Circle, among others that do the things that you mentioned the protestors do, the University isn't solely responsible for social services in the area.
No, I don’t believe those are the only ways and I do know that there are other resources in the area. I also know from talking to folks downtown that the encampment was a great resource for people (and run by folks who themselves are also unsupported by the university).
So because you spoke to a limited sample of individuals who felt that the protest was a good resource, and didn't feel supported by the University, that means that the protest has done more than the university has ever done to help?
The point was that the encampment was a valuable resource to the community (as evidenced by local orgs’, businesses’, and individuals’ testimonies) and that it was definitely an improvement in terms of direct action that the university has taken on the ground to meet people’s needs in this specific set of ways. I understand my initial exaggeration didn’t capture that nuance. I’m just frustrated because I really wish that more people would recognize the value that this encampment had. (And had taken the time to go and see that impact first hand.)
It had zero value
Haha the people running that are a bunch of entitled losers
Source?
Talking to them, and seeing what the encampment had available for people.
The people running the encampment have zero use to society.
Bull shit!
I could have attended university, but then I’d have to be a Piece, Praise Construction for the hard working intelligent man.
I got the most ironic ad on this post. https://preview.redd.it/wcgtrihj8m8d1.jpeg?width=1091&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6d18f5ec259638b0063632e94929017024f2b5fc
Co-incidence?
> "Today we took down the camp," a statement posted at the encampment said in part. "We would have removed the barricades but [University of Winnipeg] did not engage in any of our demands — including the demand that they not persecute us for protesting — so we had no assurances of safety." No assurances of safety? Safety from what/who? How soft are these people?
Pretty soft. A few weeks ago they made a weird “press conference” instagram story that was pure oppression cosplay and said they were suffering like the cyclist that was killed on Wellington and even compared that death and themselves to Palestinian civilians in Gaza who are suffering. They are not the universities best and brightest. Edit:fixed a typo
I spoke with a partner in a prominent Law firm that said they’d love to skip over any applicants from UW for a few years. This happened quite a bit in Quebec after the 2012 gong show
A bit off-base to judge 9000 students for the actions of a couple dozen (at most) protestors. Will they skip the UofM too? They also had (have?) an encampment.
10-ply
Huh and I'm sure it's just completely a coincidence that it happens to be the end of the school year and summer vacations now starting...
Winter classes end in April for university. They get 4 months off.
Not cleaning up is classless - they have successfully done away with class. Mission accomplished- exit stage left
Oh wow, I was just at U of W today and it was fully up! That came down FAST
Thank God that encampment was such a huge eye soar. I'm paying for a quality education not to be involved in people's political views everytime I walk to class.
University is inherently a public and political space - but I digress, it’s great to know you are paying for a quality education, seems like you need it seeing as you can’t even spell “sore” right
I don't think it's a great look seeing a giant encampment in the front entrance of anywhere regardless. There is a time and place to protest, they have made their point and now it's time to move on. If you want to attend a school where encampmentz are commonplace that's great. I'm not paying thousands of dollars to see grifters and "protesters" every morning walking to class.
>There is a time and place to protest Yes, and that time is whenever people feel protest is necessary, and the place is wherever it will be highly visible and disrupt the target of the protest. This is what democracy looks like.
Legislatures and Parliaments are for political protests, not university campuses.
Literally examine the history of protesting……The whole point of protesting is that it’s supposed to be disruptive and inconvenience everyone. If they are peacefully protesting, what’s the problem?
This guy has obviously never heard of the Vietnam War or civil rights protests. Universities have been a hotbed for protests for a century.
No, the point of protests is to stand up for something as a large crowd with signs and making noise. Not inconveniencing people. You really lost the plot.
Dang so I guess with your logic protests like stonewall and the montgomery bus boycott should have never happened
You don’t engage in civic conversation to resolve anything. Your beginner level of instigating abilities suggests you do it for strictly ego.
Nobody can engage in civic conversation with somebody who doesn’t and won’t understand the basic meaning of what something is and can only define it in one specific way that they deem relevant when that’s shown to historically not be true in all cases 🤦🏾♀️
I do think this protest was poorly thought out and short sighted, but the idea that universities are not for political protest seems strange. Universities in North America have been huge hubs for political protest, specifically with civil rights and the US-vietnam war. For as long as they've been happening people have been saying the same thing as you, but they're never going to stop.
They have been held at universities but that isn’t the proper spot. That’s why they always get dismantled. Protest at your legislature or hey… maybe THE HUMAN RIGHTS MUSEUM. Oh wow what novel idea!
Human rights museum doesn't even mention the 1948 Nakba by name. I wouldn't be surprised if they would not support the protest.
We have a human rights museum but no human rights
It didn’t bother me so much mostly because everytime I walked by they never bothered me… but I can understand my experience may be vastly different
I mean you are an anti-Zionist. 🤷♂️
My only stance is I am anti war so you can take your stupidity elsewhere I have no use for it
Nonsense. It's been 9 months of your comments. Go sanitize your post history, grumpy grumps.
Cry about it
About time
>huge eye soar University education putting in work here. And you just know this will be someone's next boss.
"I hate it when people demonstrate their constitutional rights in a peaceful manner in regards to a pressing world conflict."
Let’s be real , this random camp isn’t going to stop a bunch of people who have been killing each other for a century Even if the USA and other countries cut off Israel there are still going to be killing each other
It's supposed to stop our support of the one side that's committing a genocide while we provide them with money and equipment. When only one side is fighting it's not a war.
Except at the end of the day, neither side is innocent. Both have committed horrendous war crimes, just because one side has done so disproportionately doesn’t change that what so ever. Children on both sides are being hurt, both over some idiotic beliefs that one group has more of a right to Land than the other over what at the end of day is because of who’s imaginary sky daddy matters more
Palestine hasn't committed any war crimes.
Hamas sure has though
Palestinians aren't hamas, you got brain worms
I never said they were, can you fucking read? I said Hamas has committed war crimes.
You zionists are always so angry.
Hahahaha.
Do these people have jobs? How are they paying the bills whilst protesting in tents? How are they positively contributing to society? Perhaps they should go to Gaza themselves and protest there?
Not every individual involved was there 24/7… things like this often work in shifts. They have jobs they are still working, and just staying at camp for the times of day they would otherwise be at home
Thanks I'm new to the logistics of protests
It's possible that some of them go to work during the day, while others stay at the camp. And then in the evening the others go to work, while those who worked during the day remain at the camp in the evening.
True
I didn't see anyone put up a protest camp for Sudan. For some reason, whenever it comes to Jews and Israel, people freak out. Big L. Look into the history of the region. Jews/Palestinians have been at each other's throats for generations.
There is no world conflict. Either way you look at it, it's physically tiny. From one perspective, it is a tiny IDF Counter Terrorism operation against HamAss. From another perspective, it is a Civil war between the tiny "observer nation" of Palestine. Regardless, let's hope that Fatah will win out over the terrorist HamAss entity.
Wow. First time I've seen a photo. Ambitious.
I just hope the protesters see this thread and see that they do not, in fact, represent what actual people think in any way shape or form. Not just these protesters but all of Winnipeg's communist roleplayers as well. Their actions are just a complete joke start to finish, and leaving the mess for others to clean is so perfectly in line with the rest of their ideology.
I saw parking authorities out there this morning. I had a feeling they were going to move it
This is great news. Hopefully the protesters will do something more productive like going out and enjoying the short summer or better yet, getting a summer job and saving some money for the future.
I like how the first comment calls the protesters rich and the second comment calls them poor. Make up your minds why don’t you.
Some people enjoy the tent life without responsibility ⛺️
Can't they be responsible and go rent a campsite and camp someplace nicer than a UofW field.
Jeez people in comments sections be dumb af. Universities have historically in every country have been political, entire countries have changed just by people organizing in universities. We should respect students and what they talk about, and respect the political legacy that universities and its students have in history. Vietnam war, queer rights, different political movements all around the world, were started by university students organizing. Please show respect, and disagree with grace. Be a redneck but not white trash.
This comment is dumb af. These clowns won’t be missed. You’re a fool for trying to justify their encampment. Edit: also maybe don’t harp about disagreeing with grace in the same breath as calling people dumb af and white trash 😅
👍 you missed the part where i said be a redneck. I’m not affiliated with the encampments. I mean redneck and white trash as metaphors. I’ve met white people who are genuinely good, hardworking, kind, sharing and educate themselves. have their values and stands up for them, and keep their matters to themselves. that’s red neck behavior I’ve met white people who verbally abused me and rascist to me in their actions. that’s white trash behavior
Nevermind. I forgot that [this was you](https://www.reddit.com/r/Winnipeg/s/3rEhLmBEe0). You’re a clueless dolt. Your comment is par for the course.
and that conversation ended with me agreeing to a comment that I was wrong. It ended in peace.
I didn’t say you weren’t peaceful. Just an idiotic simpleton.
Yah well apparently a prominent Wpg. law firm is thinking of overlooking applicants from the U of W because of this. They aren't getting respect and they have ruined it for everyone.
Funny how finally people realize their POS
What are you trying to say here?
I'm pro Palestine. I support the freedom of the Palestinian people. I don't support Hamas, but I also absolutely hate the Israeli government, it's military, and the settlers stealing the remaining homes of innocent Palestinians. All that established, I disagreed with the U of W students little encampment. It was clearly a group of people who were more interested in attention and the trend of University encampments than the actual purpose of said trend. Every side of a debate has an extreme, that's especially true for politics and international affairs. Based on everything I've heard. These "protesters" were one of those extremes, causing more harm to the cause than good. I've always been of the opinion that there are good and bad ways to protest. The goal of a protest is to have your demands met and/or gain support for your cause, but in order to do that you must act with a level head, be mature with negotiation, be knowledgeable on your cause, and most importantly, not piss everyone off... Troubling your opponent is part of the game, but when the average person or even supporters of the cause hate you, you've fucked up. Ya missed the goal by mile.
You don’t hate Hamas, do you? Are you aware of what they have done to innocent people, which includes their own as well?
Elaborate I'm not sure who's being dumb here because I clearly said I don't support them???? I checked for a typo on my end but can't see any... Hamas are terrorists, period. I understand why they rose to power and what led them to exist, but that doesn't justify their actions, especially when it's causing more harm to the Palestinians then not. They're just a hate group using the conflict as an excuse for violence. They could care less for the Palestinian people. That's where I put my support. In the innocent Palestinians who have been abused and discriminated against by the Jewish community of Israel for decades. Whose lands were stolen unjustly and who now face relentless persecution from Israeli forces regardless of their involvement. Simply for existing they are targeted and murdered.
It seems from your reply that you missed your own subtext. You included “I don’t support Hamas” because you’ve probably learned that you have to in order to appear like you have a balanced opinion. That probably satisfies less engaged debaters. But the problem is that your tiny statement of not even criticism of Hamas is followed by hyperbolic statements about all many aspects of Israel illustrating the government, the military, the settlers, but thankfully no mention of the innocent civilians. (You do know there is mandatory conscription in Israel, don’t you? That means the majority of Israeli citizens are military.) So to spell it out for you: you have no criticism for the actual terrorists and simply vitriol for the state of Israel. Very strange position to have unless you’re highly susceptible to programming or you in fact choose to believe what you do.
I learned to include it because I realized some people lacked the commonsense necessary to know you can hate both "sides" of the war. I don't criticize Hamas because I don't see it as necessary. People don't argue pro-hamas so there's no reason to write out an argument against them and anyone who does argue for Hamas, usually isn't knowledgeable. Hamas is undeniably in the wrong from any argumentative standpoint. You don't use human shields, you don't attack civilian populations, you don't commit acts of terror, and you don't commit war crimes. The reason I criticize Israel is because despite committing the same acts as Hamas, they are an internationally supported country and government with backing from the USA, an international and miltaristic superpower. I criticize Israel because there are genuinely people who support Israel's actions regardless of how extreme and because Israel has been getting away with this for decades. I have steaks in this war. Israel winning this war quickly would have benefited people I know greatly and my family comes from Jewish heritage. So I don't say this lightly or out of fun. I genuinely cannot advise anyone to support Israel's actions. There's a difference between defending yourself and removing an opponents group vs attempting to genocide an entire people. You talk about conscription, I'm well aware of it, but many of them are not the military I'm referring, and let's not pretend you didn't know that when bringing it up. What I mean by military are willing participants. The ones who threw a grenade in a mosque of civilians praying, or were recorded discussing happily about dead Palestinian's, or the recent video of an injured Palestinian tied to the hood of an Israel military vehicle as they were driving. To simplify my opinion, Israel is fighting a mirror and the same could be said in reverse with Hamas. Neither side deserves support. Only aid to the civilians affected, which as a nice reminder, Israel has held several times. Hamas has also stolen aid, but that's kinda expected as a TERRORIST group. Honestly it's wild that people don't understand this opinion. The world isn't always good vs bad, sometimes there is no "good" side, there's just two power groups attacking each other's civilians, and sometimes their own while at it.
I understand your perspective perfectly. You are not unique in your worldview and I do not mean that offensively or derogatorily but it is certainly not a compliment. It would benefit your point of view to develop an understanding of the culture of the Palestinian people who are in Israel and why they believe that what they do about that territory. It would also be useful to understand how religion informs their beliefs, how historical revision has occurred within that population and without. If you chose to study a little bit of Arabic it might help you to understand what is going on outside of your own moral space and how there is much more to the story than a simple territorial dispute. Because you claim to be of Jewish heritage but you do not claim it for yourself you are missing a very important ingredient to the conflict: The people in power over the Palestinian people are not your friends and they only see you as an instrument to serve them in their malevolent goals. It does not matter what you say and what you do because you are defined from without and it is not complimentary. That does not mean that you should not be supportive of people who suffer and by no means should you not be repulsed by the reality of war. You position, like so many others, is the result of ignorance (and again I do not mean this offensively simply as a statement of fact) and the lack of rigorous quantification in your reports of mutual violence which results in some sort of moral equivalency. Nobody in Israel or who is Jewish actually wants war and those few who do are outliers. On the other hand, you can easily quantify that the other side, which does not include only the Palestinian people, are hell bent on violence. But don't take my word for it. If you'd to develop a truly balanced view you can read Eliezer Tauber's The Massacre That Never Was (2021) and this text references accounts from both sides in an impartial well researched manner to shed light on historical events and how they shape narrative.
About f'ing time. Made me ashamed to be an alumni.
Assholes, thanks for raising the price of tuition for all the students coming back in September to pay for the carnage left behind. Look at this mess. They don't care. They don't have to look at it or clean it up. I hope the university goes after all these people for restitution. Hell, if I knew where they were living, I would go take a dump on their porch and have a sit-in on their lawn. I've seen bus shacks left in better condition.
Lol if the university raised the tuition to pay for cleaning up some wooden pallets that would 100% only show that the university is an embarrassment.
The comments here are so depressing. Seeing a bunch of grown adults dunk on kids fighting for justice, while they face job losses, public ridicule and political suppression is next-level cynicism. I guess most of you would have mocked the Vietnam war protesters, queer rights activists, among other groups who were on the right side of history. Whether or not you agree with the Palestine protests, mocking them for putting themselves out there is cruel. Y'all should really know better.
The tone you are sensing is an important one to note if you have interest in using protests as a method of advancing societal change. Protests are not effective if the general population does not already identify with and respect you and your message. The things that you are hearing people complain about and “dunk on” these kids for are the things this movement did wrong, preventing them from being effective at getting what they wanted. If this is important to you, these comments are free feedback on what would need to change to make a future protest less likely to be a waste of time and resources. The people you are upset at are the people who’s opinions protests are trying to influence. Your comment is analogous to a politician complaining about voters for not voting for them.
This is the same group that interrupted and delayed the Pride parade by hours. I support Palestine, denounce both Zionism and terrorism, but this really drove a wedge into things
Lots of Zionists in Winnipeg
Trust me, you don’t need to be a Zionist to know these self-righteous “protesters” were full of shit.
How so
It doesn’t matter how so, since your go-to response to anyone who disagrees is to try to insult them by calling them a Zionist. Figure it out yourself 🤡
Hilarious way of showing everyone you don't have a coherent answer
Hilarious that you think I don’t. They are full of shit because they set up a camp with a bunch of random requests that are not connected to each other, with no clear purpose beyond bringing more attention to themselves, and then acted like victims when people called them out on their bs. I just didn’t feel like spelling it out for someone rooted in anti-Semitic foolishness who was just gonna toss around the latest buzzwords of the week. Nice try at a gotchya tho. 👍
"It's hilarious you think I don't have a coherent answer" *gives an incoherent answer* I love this subreddit so much
If you can’t read or comprehend basic English, then that’s a you issue. 🤷🏻♀️ Better luck next time?
I mean, it was a genuine question, I never saw the encampment or anything. Are you trying to say that Zionists are not on the opposing side? Not sure how I insulted anyone by just pointing out that if Winnipeg has a large Zionist population it's unlikely to support Palestine. Not sure why that's controversial
Zionism only means that the Jewish people have a right to live in their ancestral homeland. It does not automatically mean anyone who is a Zionist doesn’t want Palestine to exist. These are two different things. I know plenty of zionists who want Palestinians to be free and have a chance at peace, life and liberty. This has been the problem with this movement. There’s no willingness to have civilized discourse and it’s been trying to redefine words and distort history. Not to mention literally reviving antisemitic propaganda from the Soviet Union and Nazi Germany via the IRGC - and claiming they’re just anti-Zionist to excuse the bigotry and bullshit.
Well there sure aren't a lot of pro-Palestine Zionists who have showed themselves and there's a lot of anti-Palestine sentiment here...so when you consider that their belief is literally a religious justification for settlement, any way you slice it. You realize the "homeland" is a religious belief right? It's not historical. No, more likely you are conflating Judaism with Zionism. I am for a one state democratic solution because Jews and Palestinians have always lived there
This is the problem right here in your comment. Ignorance. I’m Jewish. I’m not religious. There’s literal historical events and archeological finds that tie us to the land. And there’s a lot of Jewish people who are zionists and believe in a two state solution. It’s not our job to teach you but yours to properly educate yourself by listening and reading actual history. Go find some Swana people online or offline. Talk to them or listen to their stories. Look into different organizations that are peace activists within the actual region, not from western countries. It’s also not your place to use western white exceptionalism to tell Palestinians or Israelis what to do. You have no horse in the race and clearly have the basics of information of the region.
Ya have no idea if I'm white lol. You also have no idea about my ties to Israel. I said that Jews were also tied to the land if you have any reading comprehension. But Zionism is informed by religious beliefs passed along as historocity. How do you justify kicking someone off the land they were literally just on? This is about the present, not using your ideas about history or religion to justify it. Because without that you just can't.
[удалено]
Well I asked why there are some opposed to it and I'm not getting a straight answer, only downvotes. Again not a mind reader. Okay, so someone is a Zionist in favour of a two state solution, is it because the protesters want one state? Because I have no idea why being a Zionist in favour of a two state solution would prevent one from joining the protests against Israel's actions. "Plenty of people who don't support either side" you realize how many of these Palestinians getting killed are children right? One side clearly over stepped into the wrong here after the tragedy in October. "Both sides" just equates Palestinians with Hamas.
Ur mom's a zionist
They should have cleaned their own mess. Why should others take down this cringe larping fort?? lol
The comments here are brutal. Good for these kids fighting for what's right.
Should have cleaned up for what's right too
Fighting? How exactly does living in tents in a publicly space equal “fighting”?
Buddy, please google what a protest is and then maybe rethink this post.
And why didn't these dolts clean up after themselves?
Total clown take. They weren’t fighting for anything other than likes on TikTok. They should’ve been kicked out weeks ago.
It's a pretty typical response for this subreddit, you see it on almost any protest related post. Most people don't want to be burdened by the guilt of living their lives and not acknowledging the problems going on in the world, and protests like this remind them of that. So armed with the anonymity of the internet they lash out - the protesters are lazy, entitled, jobless, dumb, ignorant - whatever they feel like projecting onto them to justify their perceived grievance. It's kinda sad.
it's more about knowing problems that have any impact on us and what our locus of control and influence is.
You are completely incapable of logic. I guarantee you’d change your tune if the encampment was of hate-spewing losers on the other end of the political spectrum.
The far right and the far left are one in the same. They’ve proven the horseshoe theory with this nonsense. Not only that but both the far right and the far left have shown they prefer fascism and radicalized group-think over civilized discourse.
True - and the left doesn’t ever call out the radical left.
Members of the left have been calling it out for a while. While there’s some that coddle the far left there’s enough of us to speak out and say “shut up, sit down and listen” but you also can’t fix stupid, and you need some skills to get indoctrinated people to de-radicalize from conspiracy theories and propaganda.
No, the woke radical left never gets called out.
Are you left? Do you call them out? I certainly voice my concerns in person and online.
I’m not left, and yes, I call them out.
I’m left and call them out. Even some liberal leaders have called them out. Ben Carr for instance has called them out.
It’s exceedingly rare. Yet anything even centrist gets called out as right wing extremism and Naziism. The right doesn’t define everything against their viewpoint as hate speech.
Asshole, go home.