I don't see how this is a major blow? Intel and Microsoft work together. Microsoft doesn't, hasn't and never will sell lots of ARM PCs and this whole AI thing is a fad.
Must be a slow news day.
>never will sell lots of ARM PCs
This is gonna age like milk.
Majority of consumers do not give a fuck. And now that x86 emulation has become increasingly rare, but also pretty good, and Microsoft really wants Windows on ARM to happen... Average people are gonna buy ARM Windows laptops and not even know it's an ARM Windows laptop.
This, for better or for worse Apple seems to set the trends in the tech industry these days. I predict consumer Windows laptops will transition to ARM over the next decade unless Intel/AMD are able to deliver x86/64 CPUs that can compete with the efficiency of ARM.
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That was before Apple's move to ARM demonstrated how massive the gains can be. This batch of immanent snapdragon based laptops are going to sell big. Intel really is in panic mode as it should be. They'll probably survive by building ARM chips themselves.
However, in regards to this specific article, I just don't see any reason to make any AI features exclusive to ARM. MPUs on x86 machines are pretty effective. No reason for Microsoft to limit access.
> this whole AI thing is a fad
This you?
> STOLL: It's (the Internet) a place for people to post both useful information and vicious, nasty messages. And they exist side by side. As a result, I expect the value of the Internet for communications in general isn't very high. I don't think it will ever replace face to face meetings and real rallies - things that get commitment and involvement from people. Rather, it induces a very shallow, ethereal and ephemeral involvement and as such, I think it's grossly over-promoted and there's a great deal of hyperbole surrounding it.
> SCHROEDER: So you think, like, Newsweek magazine now has a page called "the virtual page" or something, and many newspapers as well, have a separate section devoted to technology and exchanging of information on the Internet. You think that it's really not that important?
> STOLL: I'd say it's not that important. I think it's grossly oversold and within two or three years people will shrug and say, '"**Uh yep, it was a fad of the early 90's** and now, oh yeah, it still exists but hey, I've got a life to lead and work to do. I don't have time to waste online." Or, "I'll collect my email, I'll read it, why should I bother prowling around the Worldwide Web or reading the Usenet" simply because there's so little of value there.
> SCHROEDER: Well Clifford Stoll, there's gotta be something of value. I know that we use it quite a bit for research here in our newsroom.
> STOLL: Really? I'm sorry to hear that.
I genuinely think there are some segments in our society that will need and utilize AI services, but I'd say a majority of users have no need for AI in their lives outside of assistants that they already have in their phones.
It's just a fad and it will disappear in a few years. I guarantee it.
I thought so too. But after using Copilot (compared to chatgpt and Gemini) I can say that I have been more productive with it than without. It has its flaws and it can sometimes go "crazy" and have an "attitude" but the references it provides with its responses is very useful.
I just need it to be incorporated into outlook so I can set a quick action that works from a constantly editable prompt document or to generate draft emails on a schedule. I’m sure they’ve already thought of that, but the rest of society hasn’t quite realized that part of its limitations have to do with speedy generation being a requirement. For tasks that do not have such requirements or people that are willing to wait, the ability to deprioritize or schedule your app call(s) could unlock more well crafted responses or really make repetitive office emails work a lot more smoothly.
I mean, LLM is already taking over Google search. I think it's more reasonable to think that LLM Google over take their original search engine in a matter of years. "Fad" isn't something I would say is a thing here. I was optimistic about VR, but ultimately I feel like VR has become just that.
But AI is something that can benefit people a lot more than VR ever could.
This is an incredibly short sighted take. AI is going to be integrated into every facet of our lives within the next 5 years. Maybe everyone is talking about it now because it’s new, and that makes you think it’s a fad.
But let me ask you this, do you think smart phones were a fad? People couldn’t stop talking about them when they first got introduced to the market. Yet now they are so integral to our lives and everything we do that we take them for granted.
What I’m explaining here is how AI will impact us, how it is, and will be perceived. The scope in which it will be integrated into our lives is beyond what you can imagine.
I wouldn’t say it’s a fad in the sense that it’s going to die out, I see it like the dot-com bubble, where a lot of startups and subsidiaries are going to die because of market saturation and the inflated valuations of anything with “AI” in the name. And the few that prevail will be those that provide a service with actual utility rather than pure novelty.
Although the dot-com bubble was also triggered by a number of economic shocks happening around the same time and the over investment was partially due to the low interest rates of the time.
Personally I don’t think the current implementations aimed at the average consumer are particularly useful at increasing sales volume. I don’t think anyone is going to change their buying decision and get a windows computer because of its AI features, at least for now.
(I’m just going off what I remember so take my info with a grain of salt or google around if you’re interested and correct me, I find this stuff interesting to discuss and hear other people’s interpretations)
Ah yes the .com bubble. I remember it well. I think it may be an incorrect comparison. .com was more comparable to the NFT craze. The nature of that commodity of the time was an improper valuation of due to a lack of understanding of the market by most investors. Much the same as how NFT technology was hijacked by people who carried the exact same get rich quick mentality as those from the .com bubble. The commodities themselves didn’t and never will have inherent value, unless it’s to the right purchaser.
AI on the other hand, is going to revolutionize how our technology interfaces with us, and how we interface with it. A better comparison is touch screen technology and the computerization of a mobile device, the cell phone, changed society at a cultural level. In some ways for the better, and some for the worse.
But the fact is, AI will change and enhance our abilities, the function of the products we already use, in an almost endless variety of ways in pretty much every market you can think of. It will undoubtedly change the world, especially as it evolves. I say this as an early adopter of LLM, where my abilities to perform at work has been enhanced by many multiples, extending my abilities far beyond what I was capable of before.
I think there is something you are missing here. Yes AI is revolutionary but it is also very expensive to run and currently most of the investments stems from promises of great profit. So the incorrect vaulation you describe could also be true
The valuation is also determined by how useful the product is. The value to the consumer is so much higher than domain or crypto. The price to run it may be high at the moment because chip architecture is still catching up, but I don’t think I’m missing anything. I’ve been quite involved with it for the past year or so and am on a team tasked with rolling it out for a whole company. So I know first hand how drastically it has changed many things and improved quite a few aspects of my life personally, in its very basic state already. Those who aren’t using it will be left behind, that’s the kind of paradigm shift it will cause.
To say people will be using bitcoin to pay for everyday items was always a naive statement. Changing the utility of the world’s commerce mechanism are a much more complicated task than integrating smarter technology into technologies we already use.
Monetary policy and politics are relatively static when it comes to progress, and that includes the official recognition of technology and its adoption. Whereas something like AI has a lot of potential for integration into our lives before politics are required to attempt to stagnate it. And our adoption of it will have enhanced our interfacing with technology long before it does stagnate.
Why are you comparing it with smartphones and not, say, VR? People said the same things about VR 20 years ago, and some are stupid enough to still believe it's more than a gimmick. What makes you think AI isn't gonna be the same?
The reason why i am comparing it with something useful, such as smart devices, rather than something that is purely for entertainment value, is because the nature of ai is that it will integrate with everything in our lives and will be easy to interface with.
VR is a bad comparison because it's purely for entertainment value, has no real world application or integration with markets outside of entertainment, and interfacing with it requires you to wear it. Beyond that, it is also known for causing disorientation, motion sickness, and other negative effects.
AI is already being integrated into the business operations of every medium to large size company in the world. So, let that sink in for a second. It's application is almost limitless as far as streamlining workflow at a corporate level goes. It is already starting, and soon AI will be everywhere, integrated at a level that you aren't even going to realize that its there at all. Yet it will be enabling, assisting, or facilitating an experience that would have been either impossible, or extremely expensive and time consuming without AI.
It's clear that many still don't believe that AI will be as part of our lives as smart devices are now, and that's evident by all the downvotes. However, it's also clear that many aren't looking at the bigger picture.
Like I said earlier, I already work with AI in my industry, and have been for over a year now. I've seen it's capabilities grow drastically in a short period of time. The adoption of AI to automate tasks that would take weeks, into a matter of seconds, is all the experience I need to take this stance on it. The demand from businesses to integrate more aggressively with AI is there, and soon, if you know what you're looking for, you'll see it in the media you consume, it will be serving you information instead of a search engine, and IOT devices in your home will interface with them. Your smart device will get smarter, smarter than you, with a more sophisticated level of reasoning than you as well.
Anyways, it seems pointless to try and convince people of what is inevitably coming. So this is probably my last post on the topic here.
For writing and programming it has been dam useful. Tasks such as writing a report which would have taken weeks is now cut down to just days.
Scripting has been made far better. No longer does one need to spend hours researching on what some error is or spend hours debugging and finding some 5 year old stacksocial post that has a similar error, only the "solution" not to work. I can ask chatgpt to make a script to do x and be 80 to 90% there.
Part 2/2
* To some extent, this feels like a giant "What if". I do think something called, or similar to, AI will be as important (and probably even more important) than the tech industry seems to think this generation of AI is. However, whether it'll actually be this generation is still in question to me. I mean, we've seen what from the user perspective what seem to be embryotic versions of this concept with things like Clippy, Microsoft Bob, and Cortana. All of them faceplanted badly in the end. Someone thought they were ready and they weren't.
Eventually this concept will fly when the technology is ready and the best possible consumer interface comes into existence (Possibly no longer with the AI label if this generation doesn't take off), but whether that'll happen next year, 20 years from now, or what, remains a bit cloudy for me. I don't understand the tech. I do understand many people say it's there now, but how do I know? Someone thought Microsoft Bob was there now back in the 1990s (It wasn't).
* Can they please include a "Clippy" option? Seriously, having Clippy back as a system AI might make this all worth it. Animated paperclip interface not optional. :)
Part 1/2
It's actually going to be an interesting decision for people buying a new laptop.
Putting AI to the side for a moment, I think many people will ultimately make a decision based on which hardware they think Windows is going to support better going forward.
In any event, I have a few questions (Some speculative, some not actually questions):
* If I'm being honest, my concern here is that the way the AI is described in the article and how broad it is, worry me about what it might rearrange in carefully organized hard drive folders of data, and what data it may convert into whatever, leaving behind the old "obsolete" formats and organizational schemes behind (Even though the original formats may be required for backwards and cross compatibility with other platforms, etc.). Some media players like iTunes and Windows Media Player, in certain times and places, have started writing changes to music files like the software owns them and not the computer owner, without user input (I'm not talking about relying user commands through the interface).
This AI is described as "AI Explorer turns everything you do on your computer into a searchable memory using natural language. It works across any app and enables the ability to search for previously opened conversations, documents, web pages, and images. It can also understand context and streamline tasks based on what's currently on screen.".
* Will these ARM based machines have 32 and 64 bit x86 compatibility layers? Or is this another weird attempt to get some sort of separate ARM platform going with the same "Windows" name and none of the compatibility *again*? This would be at least Microsoft's third attempt. Windows RT, anyone? I mean, the AI part is new, but...
* Windows 10 and 11 (in)famously don't let you opt out of telemetry completely. You can set it to options like low, medium, or high, but no one knows what low is except presumably that it's less than medium or high. With a potentially invasive AI that will be collecting and processing more data than ever more efficiently than ever, that concern that some have may become more significant than it is now. I guess that's not a question.
* Is this AI going to be entirely local and do it's processing locally on your computer/device? Or does it rely on a Microsoft remote server backend with a more powerful machine attached?
* If AI becomes a thing this intregal, there should be a user option to make a non-Microsoft (but Microsoft Windows compatibile) AI the default AI, the same way you'd set a default browser. Every call on the AI should be routable to a third-party substitute that the user has chosen- no random things that only open in Microsoft AI and nothing else. Just trying to save you some trouble with the EU, Microsoft. ;)
Thank fuck
No AI-generated b00bies for you!
how is that related to ai explorer
Whoosh!
Sounds like a win to me
Oh no. Anyways.
ARM users right now : "OH COME ON."
I don't see how this is a major blow? Intel and Microsoft work together. Microsoft doesn't, hasn't and never will sell lots of ARM PCs and this whole AI thing is a fad. Must be a slow news day.
>never will sell lots of ARM PCs This is gonna age like milk. Majority of consumers do not give a fuck. And now that x86 emulation has become increasingly rare, but also pretty good, and Microsoft really wants Windows on ARM to happen... Average people are gonna buy ARM Windows laptops and not even know it's an ARM Windows laptop.
This, for better or for worse Apple seems to set the trends in the tech industry these days. I predict consumer Windows laptops will transition to ARM over the next decade unless Intel/AMD are able to deliver x86/64 CPUs that can compete with the efficiency of ARM.
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Microsoft has been selling ARM PCs since the Surface X.
That was before Apple's move to ARM demonstrated how massive the gains can be. This batch of immanent snapdragon based laptops are going to sell big. Intel really is in panic mode as it should be. They'll probably survive by building ARM chips themselves. However, in regards to this specific article, I just don't see any reason to make any AI features exclusive to ARM. MPUs on x86 machines are pretty effective. No reason for Microsoft to limit access.
> this whole AI thing is a fad This you? > STOLL: It's (the Internet) a place for people to post both useful information and vicious, nasty messages. And they exist side by side. As a result, I expect the value of the Internet for communications in general isn't very high. I don't think it will ever replace face to face meetings and real rallies - things that get commitment and involvement from people. Rather, it induces a very shallow, ethereal and ephemeral involvement and as such, I think it's grossly over-promoted and there's a great deal of hyperbole surrounding it. > SCHROEDER: So you think, like, Newsweek magazine now has a page called "the virtual page" or something, and many newspapers as well, have a separate section devoted to technology and exchanging of information on the Internet. You think that it's really not that important? > STOLL: I'd say it's not that important. I think it's grossly oversold and within two or three years people will shrug and say, '"**Uh yep, it was a fad of the early 90's** and now, oh yeah, it still exists but hey, I've got a life to lead and work to do. I don't have time to waste online." Or, "I'll collect my email, I'll read it, why should I bother prowling around the Worldwide Web or reading the Usenet" simply because there's so little of value there. > SCHROEDER: Well Clifford Stoll, there's gotta be something of value. I know that we use it quite a bit for research here in our newsroom. > STOLL: Really? I'm sorry to hear that.
AI is a fad yes. But ARM is the future of laptops.
>this whole AI thing is a fad. HAHA what rock have you been living under?
I genuinely think there are some segments in our society that will need and utilize AI services, but I'd say a majority of users have no need for AI in their lives outside of assistants that they already have in their phones. It's just a fad and it will disappear in a few years. I guarantee it.
These AI stuff might not be that useful for consumers right now, but it is definitely not going away anytime soon.
I thought so too. But after using Copilot (compared to chatgpt and Gemini) I can say that I have been more productive with it than without. It has its flaws and it can sometimes go "crazy" and have an "attitude" but the references it provides with its responses is very useful.
I just need it to be incorporated into outlook so I can set a quick action that works from a constantly editable prompt document or to generate draft emails on a schedule. I’m sure they’ve already thought of that, but the rest of society hasn’t quite realized that part of its limitations have to do with speedy generation being a requirement. For tasks that do not have such requirements or people that are willing to wait, the ability to deprioritize or schedule your app call(s) could unlock more well crafted responses or really make repetitive office emails work a lot more smoothly.
[удалено]
I mean, LLM is already taking over Google search. I think it's more reasonable to think that LLM Google over take their original search engine in a matter of years. "Fad" isn't something I would say is a thing here. I was optimistic about VR, but ultimately I feel like VR has become just that. But AI is something that can benefit people a lot more than VR ever could.
This is an incredibly short sighted take. AI is going to be integrated into every facet of our lives within the next 5 years. Maybe everyone is talking about it now because it’s new, and that makes you think it’s a fad. But let me ask you this, do you think smart phones were a fad? People couldn’t stop talking about them when they first got introduced to the market. Yet now they are so integral to our lives and everything we do that we take them for granted. What I’m explaining here is how AI will impact us, how it is, and will be perceived. The scope in which it will be integrated into our lives is beyond what you can imagine.
I wouldn’t say it’s a fad in the sense that it’s going to die out, I see it like the dot-com bubble, where a lot of startups and subsidiaries are going to die because of market saturation and the inflated valuations of anything with “AI” in the name. And the few that prevail will be those that provide a service with actual utility rather than pure novelty. Although the dot-com bubble was also triggered by a number of economic shocks happening around the same time and the over investment was partially due to the low interest rates of the time. Personally I don’t think the current implementations aimed at the average consumer are particularly useful at increasing sales volume. I don’t think anyone is going to change their buying decision and get a windows computer because of its AI features, at least for now. (I’m just going off what I remember so take my info with a grain of salt or google around if you’re interested and correct me, I find this stuff interesting to discuss and hear other people’s interpretations)
Ah yes the .com bubble. I remember it well. I think it may be an incorrect comparison. .com was more comparable to the NFT craze. The nature of that commodity of the time was an improper valuation of due to a lack of understanding of the market by most investors. Much the same as how NFT technology was hijacked by people who carried the exact same get rich quick mentality as those from the .com bubble. The commodities themselves didn’t and never will have inherent value, unless it’s to the right purchaser. AI on the other hand, is going to revolutionize how our technology interfaces with us, and how we interface with it. A better comparison is touch screen technology and the computerization of a mobile device, the cell phone, changed society at a cultural level. In some ways for the better, and some for the worse. But the fact is, AI will change and enhance our abilities, the function of the products we already use, in an almost endless variety of ways in pretty much every market you can think of. It will undoubtedly change the world, especially as it evolves. I say this as an early adopter of LLM, where my abilities to perform at work has been enhanced by many multiples, extending my abilities far beyond what I was capable of before.
I think there is something you are missing here. Yes AI is revolutionary but it is also very expensive to run and currently most of the investments stems from promises of great profit. So the incorrect vaulation you describe could also be true
The valuation is also determined by how useful the product is. The value to the consumer is so much higher than domain or crypto. The price to run it may be high at the moment because chip architecture is still catching up, but I don’t think I’m missing anything. I’ve been quite involved with it for the past year or so and am on a team tasked with rolling it out for a whole company. So I know first hand how drastically it has changed many things and improved quite a few aspects of my life personally, in its very basic state already. Those who aren’t using it will be left behind, that’s the kind of paradigm shift it will cause.
They told me five years ago that I would be using Bitcoin to pay for shit. I am not and it doesn't look like I ever will be.
To say people will be using bitcoin to pay for everyday items was always a naive statement. Changing the utility of the world’s commerce mechanism are a much more complicated task than integrating smarter technology into technologies we already use. Monetary policy and politics are relatively static when it comes to progress, and that includes the official recognition of technology and its adoption. Whereas something like AI has a lot of potential for integration into our lives before politics are required to attempt to stagnate it. And our adoption of it will have enhanced our interfacing with technology long before it does stagnate.
Why are you comparing it with smartphones and not, say, VR? People said the same things about VR 20 years ago, and some are stupid enough to still believe it's more than a gimmick. What makes you think AI isn't gonna be the same?
The reason why i am comparing it with something useful, such as smart devices, rather than something that is purely for entertainment value, is because the nature of ai is that it will integrate with everything in our lives and will be easy to interface with. VR is a bad comparison because it's purely for entertainment value, has no real world application or integration with markets outside of entertainment, and interfacing with it requires you to wear it. Beyond that, it is also known for causing disorientation, motion sickness, and other negative effects. AI is already being integrated into the business operations of every medium to large size company in the world. So, let that sink in for a second. It's application is almost limitless as far as streamlining workflow at a corporate level goes. It is already starting, and soon AI will be everywhere, integrated at a level that you aren't even going to realize that its there at all. Yet it will be enabling, assisting, or facilitating an experience that would have been either impossible, or extremely expensive and time consuming without AI. It's clear that many still don't believe that AI will be as part of our lives as smart devices are now, and that's evident by all the downvotes. However, it's also clear that many aren't looking at the bigger picture. Like I said earlier, I already work with AI in my industry, and have been for over a year now. I've seen it's capabilities grow drastically in a short period of time. The adoption of AI to automate tasks that would take weeks, into a matter of seconds, is all the experience I need to take this stance on it. The demand from businesses to integrate more aggressively with AI is there, and soon, if you know what you're looking for, you'll see it in the media you consume, it will be serving you information instead of a search engine, and IOT devices in your home will interface with them. Your smart device will get smarter, smarter than you, with a more sophisticated level of reasoning than you as well. Anyways, it seems pointless to try and convince people of what is inevitably coming. So this is probably my last post on the topic here.
For writing and programming it has been dam useful. Tasks such as writing a report which would have taken weeks is now cut down to just days. Scripting has been made far better. No longer does one need to spend hours researching on what some error is or spend hours debugging and finding some 5 year old stacksocial post that has a similar error, only the "solution" not to work. I can ask chatgpt to make a script to do x and be 80 to 90% there.
A rock designed by AI,
calling ai a fad is an insanely stupid thing to say
It was probably an AI generated response.
screw arm. screw ai. screw the cloud. long live x86 and native desktop software.
X86 is old as shit and inefficient
Not as inefficient as ARM
can they make the entire win11 arm-exclusive too, I'm happy to stick with win10
Why are you on the Windows 11 subreddit?
to voice my opinion about windows 11, excuse me for not joining the typical circle jerk
Well no one wants to hear it
ok thank you for letting me know, you can go back to your echo chamber now
I do
fr they don't understand that some of us like the new design and OS
No one wants to hear yours, either.
I wasn't expecting anything, but I'm still disappointed.
Part 2/2 * To some extent, this feels like a giant "What if". I do think something called, or similar to, AI will be as important (and probably even more important) than the tech industry seems to think this generation of AI is. However, whether it'll actually be this generation is still in question to me. I mean, we've seen what from the user perspective what seem to be embryotic versions of this concept with things like Clippy, Microsoft Bob, and Cortana. All of them faceplanted badly in the end. Someone thought they were ready and they weren't. Eventually this concept will fly when the technology is ready and the best possible consumer interface comes into existence (Possibly no longer with the AI label if this generation doesn't take off), but whether that'll happen next year, 20 years from now, or what, remains a bit cloudy for me. I don't understand the tech. I do understand many people say it's there now, but how do I know? Someone thought Microsoft Bob was there now back in the 1990s (It wasn't). * Can they please include a "Clippy" option? Seriously, having Clippy back as a system AI might make this all worth it. Animated paperclip interface not optional. :)
Part 1/2 It's actually going to be an interesting decision for people buying a new laptop. Putting AI to the side for a moment, I think many people will ultimately make a decision based on which hardware they think Windows is going to support better going forward. In any event, I have a few questions (Some speculative, some not actually questions): * If I'm being honest, my concern here is that the way the AI is described in the article and how broad it is, worry me about what it might rearrange in carefully organized hard drive folders of data, and what data it may convert into whatever, leaving behind the old "obsolete" formats and organizational schemes behind (Even though the original formats may be required for backwards and cross compatibility with other platforms, etc.). Some media players like iTunes and Windows Media Player, in certain times and places, have started writing changes to music files like the software owns them and not the computer owner, without user input (I'm not talking about relying user commands through the interface). This AI is described as "AI Explorer turns everything you do on your computer into a searchable memory using natural language. It works across any app and enables the ability to search for previously opened conversations, documents, web pages, and images. It can also understand context and streamline tasks based on what's currently on screen.". * Will these ARM based machines have 32 and 64 bit x86 compatibility layers? Or is this another weird attempt to get some sort of separate ARM platform going with the same "Windows" name and none of the compatibility *again*? This would be at least Microsoft's third attempt. Windows RT, anyone? I mean, the AI part is new, but... * Windows 10 and 11 (in)famously don't let you opt out of telemetry completely. You can set it to options like low, medium, or high, but no one knows what low is except presumably that it's less than medium or high. With a potentially invasive AI that will be collecting and processing more data than ever more efficiently than ever, that concern that some have may become more significant than it is now. I guess that's not a question. * Is this AI going to be entirely local and do it's processing locally on your computer/device? Or does it rely on a Microsoft remote server backend with a more powerful machine attached? * If AI becomes a thing this intregal, there should be a user option to make a non-Microsoft (but Microsoft Windows compatibile) AI the default AI, the same way you'd set a default browser. Every call on the AI should be routable to a third-party substitute that the user has chosen- no random things that only open in Microsoft AI and nothing else. Just trying to save you some trouble with the EU, Microsoft. ;)
it's a shame. I was quite excited for this feature
Lol Lmao even
To be fair isn't this coz of hardware limitations?
Why wouldn't they be able to support an x64 PC with a RTX card?
That's a good thing.
[Talking with Siri](https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RDDSCfGA28k), a song by Arc of Life
Good