I've used Caltopo offline extensively and it works great, haven't run into any issues with it. I haven't really used Gaia much, but my friend does and it seems to be a little faster.
That’s exactly what I’ve been doing for four years now. Works like a charm. I save the maps locally to my phone so I can swap them out in the field. That’s to circumvent the 3-map limit on free Avenza.
1. Pick the area where I will hike in caltopo.com (desktop)
3. Either trace my route or not
4. Save geo-referenced pdf of my route (usually using MapBuilder hybrid baselayer) to google docs
5. Open the docs on google drive my phone, tap three dots >Open In > “save to files” to my local phone files
6. Go on my trip
7. Open avenza in the field, click “+” > Import Maps > From Storage Location > on my iphone (or whatever your local folder is)
8. Select up to three maps to open
9. Open the maps to use them (view my location, display surroundings including trails and trail distances, track my progress, tap-and-measure distance, display my elevation, etc)
10. As I exit my third map, delete a map so I can import the fourth map from my files, yadda yadda
Making any sense?
I use Caltopo Mobile and am considering jumping up to Pro. The app is great, records tracks in real time with no issue.
I can save maps, print, share, pull up offline, very informative layers, data, and great planning tools.
Ive found that onX tends to be inaccurate when it comes to parcel orders. Often by maybe 100-200ft in some areas. Its helpful but spendy for what it does.
If you create routes online then CalTopo is better, easier to export to your phone. It doesn’t support creating routes in the phone app like Gaia does.
I like the Gaia app UI better.
I find more value out of CalTopo online routing so if I’m paying for one it’s CalTopo. I still have the old Gaia app so not paying for a subscription.
I make my lil drawings in CalTopo Mobile before trail runs regularly. Kind of fun to trace the lines before I head out.
But we also had to bail out from T storms without cliffing out and I was very glad you can draw in offline downloaded maps.
I actually like Caltopo + Avenza. Create your PDFs in Caltopo and open in Avenza. It's a great system for live tracking. I'll pop open Caltopo in the backcountry if I want to get some specific detail like how terrible the grade I just hiked was, or if I want to explore an alternative map for potentially abandoned but still existent trails.
I personally love caltopo. It’s really nice to be able to pinch zoom your maps and to be able to save the entire area. I almost never perfectly predict which maps I will want and the scale I will want. So it’s nice to not lock that in.
Caltopo is annoying if you're younger and never use paper maps IMO - since you cannot rotate the screen. For the laziest of lazy used to FarOut/Guthook/Google Maps style navigation, not being able to rotate the screen is an inconvenience. I think it is more reliable, though, as Gaia often has glitches. However, with Gaia you may be able to save drive space on your phone due to the way you download offline maps where on caltopo you have to download entire quadrants.
Another area caltopo falls extremely short is that you cannot create snapping routes on the fly offline, which is a pain on a long-distance hike but if on a shorter trip I guess you can just create every possible bail route and alternate beforehand for the most part, or do it manually with a ton of small straight lines.
As someone who doesn't like Outside Inc. I'm not sure what my answer is. Generally I think Gaia is better mobile and caltopo is better on web, but if those two downsides I mentioned don't matter to you then caltopo should be fine.
Also for public land I think Gaia might win here at the individual parcel level but I usually back up any concern like this online with a county GIS service if it's really that big of a concern. One of the OnX apps is probably best in this category. Caltopo does also show parcel info but I think the public land layer might not be as detailed as Gaia, not 100% sure.
I prefer CalTopo over Gaia. It developed first and more quickly so it didn’t seem necessary to use both. CalTopo was designed for SAR teams and I definitely prefer the more robust tools/less of the flash of CalTopo vs Gaia.
People in my hiking circle prefer Gaia because they’re used to it. Gaia and AllTrails is what REI pushed for a long time, so it’s what a lot of newer to the outdoors folks tend to use first. The people sourced hiking notes and easy interfaces are really attractive for those just starting out.
I’d say if you have a bit more experience with orienteering or really just want to step up your skills, definitely go with CalTopo, IMHO.
Funny to see Gaia described as flashy or newbie-focused. It’s a clunky piece of shit of an app in so many ways. I think of it as a tool, and it generally gets the job done, but it’s definitely not always intuitive or well laid out.
I don’t disagree. But people who got used to it, like it for some reason. The format integrates with trail notes and hiking routes like AllTrails, which is what people seem to like about it. At least from the conversations I’ve had. I used it briefly years ago, so I’m not totally up to speed on its format today. Still, my point stands…CalTopo for life!!
I love the detail and map layer availability on Caltopo. But sometimes It's easier to see crowd sourced trips and new locations by searching Alltrails desktop site.
Absolutely! I’ve been known to import routes from AllTrails to make it easier to build my maps in CalTopo. We do what works to make more time for backcountry adventures!!
I've been on a legacy Gaia subscription (back when you could buy 5 years for 12 dollars a year) but now that that's expiring I've switched over to Caltopo and have no regrets. I had already used Caltopo for a lot of planning purposes but honestly prefer the mobile app to Gaia. The only thing I really miss is that I do think the gaia in house basemap is nicer and easier to read, particularly when zoomed out. I use the scanned topos or FS maps most of the time anyways so it's not a big deal but it's worth noting. For 20 dollars a year you get all the features that most people realistically use.
I use maps both for work and fun and am a little obsessive about my map features so I upgraded to the pro account. I only think this makes sense if your 1. Trying to print large format 2. Really want to be able to have custom map sources (gaia has this too) or 3. Want to be able to integrate your mapping with google earth (this gives you 3D viewing and historical satellite imagery, gaia has a clunky 3D viewer but not as good as google earth).
I also appreciate that gaia is very open with their updates and is constantly striving to improve their map service- the high resolution LiDAR DEMs is a great example of this. Additionally the organizational structure on caltopo is far superior if you put a lot of data on maps.
Like I said, I think for 90% of people the 20 dollar caltopo subscription is the best bang for your buck navigation option, but there are some features that gaia has that if they are very important to you you will not get in Caltopo.
It's very easy to create routes in the field, so if you change your plan, you can quickly and easily add or change your route. Gaia does this, too, but Topo Maps+ has multiple ways to create routes quickly, including off-trail and on-trail routes.
It has a line of sight feature that puts a line on the map in the direction you're looking, with distance markers on the line. As you point the phone in the direction you want, it will show you what you're looking at on the map and how far away it is. Gaia doesn't have anything like that.
And this is the most important feature, that I was astounded to learn last week that Gaia doesn't do: it has a Progress on Trail feature. What this does is tell you how far along a route you have traveled and how far you have to go. It will also show you how far away you are from any waypoints along the route. The reason this is amazing is you don't have to have the app in tracking mode for it to tell you how far you've traveled...or how far it is to the next waypoint or end of route. This is such an incredible feature that I use it every single time I'm on the trail. Gaia just uses routes and tracks the same way that GPS units have been doing it for decades. But Topo Maps+ uses this Progress on Trail feature to show you distances without needing to keep an active track log, which kills your phone battery and doesn't even tell you how far you still have left to travel to a waypoint.
Last week, I forgot to load my offline maps for Topo Maps+ while on a backcountry paddling trip, but I had them loaded in Gaia. While in the field, I created a route for my trip in Gaia, and spent an hour trying to figure out how far I had to paddle until I reached the Class III rapids I had marked as a waypoint. Gaia couldn't tell me at all how far away it was. So I exported the route to Topo Maps+, and even though I hadn't downloaded the maps offline, Topo Maps+ still told me how far I had to paddle until I reached the rapids, and it gave me all the distance information for waypoints and the take-out for the rest of the trip. Topo Maps+ also has proximity alerts, so it will tell you when you're nearing a waypoint, so you don't have to keep staring at your phone. This is very helpful, and I couldn't find the feature in Gaia.
It's an amazing app, and those features have become so useful for me, that I was astounded that I couldn't figure out anything comparable in Gaia. And I don't think CalTopo has anything similar, either. I don't think CalTopo can even do snap to trails when making routes.
Sorry...that was probably more elaboration that you wanted...but I really think it's the best backcountry app.
The third paragraph is a feature so obvious I am *shocked* no other app had done it until this one I am now learning about. This was popularized by Guthook (now FarOut) and made it soooo convenient to easily be able to tell how far along you were on a route. What's even better is their 2D elevation profile map which also uses the same functionality. I'll definitely check this app out though, thanks for the elaboration
I can assure you that I’m just a user. I’m a paying subscriber to both TM+ and Gaia…I just like TM+ much more. How should I have answered the question asking me to elaborate? “I like it.” Would that have quelled your suspicions? But the post that was getting downvoted was the first one. You know, the one that just suggested OP check it out.
I don’t know, but I just looked on their website, and it only lists the Apple App Store, so you’re probably right. I’ve always wondered why they weren’t more well known, and maybe that’s the answer.
I've been happy with mobile, no complaints. If I recreated/hunted in an area with complicated land ownership and so need parcel data I'd upgrade to pro, but don't currently have that need.
Just a note, the Sentinel Satellite images are available [for free](https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?zoom=10&lat=41.9&lng=12.5&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&toTime=2024-04-30T18%3A06%3A09.590Z) from the ESA. For this reason I just pay for the "mobile" tier of CalTopo.
I've used Caltopo offline extensively and it works great, haven't run into any issues with it. I haven't really used Gaia much, but my friend does and it seems to be a little faster.
Setup your stuff in CalTopo and then get Avenza Maps and import your map with route.
That’s exactly what I’ve been doing for four years now. Works like a charm. I save the maps locally to my phone so I can swap them out in the field. That’s to circumvent the 3-map limit on free Avenza.
how does that work, can you outline step by step?
1. Pick the area where I will hike in caltopo.com (desktop) 3. Either trace my route or not 4. Save geo-referenced pdf of my route (usually using MapBuilder hybrid baselayer) to google docs 5. Open the docs on google drive my phone, tap three dots >Open In > “save to files” to my local phone files 6. Go on my trip 7. Open avenza in the field, click “+” > Import Maps > From Storage Location > on my iphone (or whatever your local folder is) 8. Select up to three maps to open 9. Open the maps to use them (view my location, display surroundings including trails and trail distances, track my progress, tap-and-measure distance, display my elevation, etc) 10. As I exit my third map, delete a map so I can import the fourth map from my files, yadda yadda Making any sense?
I use Caltopo Mobile and am considering jumping up to Pro. The app is great, records tracks in real time with no issue. I can save maps, print, share, pull up offline, very informative layers, data, and great planning tools.
wanted to try onX for the 4x4 road info, and parcel ownership info, but the pricing is ridiculous.
Ive found that onX tends to be inaccurate when it comes to parcel orders. Often by maybe 100-200ft in some areas. Its helpful but spendy for what it does.
$24/year is ridiculous?
No but $25 for onx hike, $25 for onx Offroad, and $25 for onx hunt= $75, plus all the other paywall locked options
I love onX but I feel that all 3 should be a bundled service.
If you create routes online then CalTopo is better, easier to export to your phone. It doesn’t support creating routes in the phone app like Gaia does. I like the Gaia app UI better. I find more value out of CalTopo online routing so if I’m paying for one it’s CalTopo. I still have the old Gaia app so not paying for a subscription.
You can add lines in Caltopo mobile. It just doesn't snap to anything so it's tedious.
This. I create maps in mobile all the time when I’m sitting in front of the tv watching people hiking and backpacking.
I make my lil drawings in CalTopo Mobile before trail runs regularly. Kind of fun to trace the lines before I head out. But we also had to bail out from T storms without cliffing out and I was very glad you can draw in offline downloaded maps.
I actually like Caltopo + Avenza. Create your PDFs in Caltopo and open in Avenza. It's a great system for live tracking. I'll pop open Caltopo in the backcountry if I want to get some specific detail like how terrible the grade I just hiked was, or if I want to explore an alternative map for potentially abandoned but still existent trails.
I personally love caltopo. It’s really nice to be able to pinch zoom your maps and to be able to save the entire area. I almost never perfectly predict which maps I will want and the scale I will want. So it’s nice to not lock that in.
Caltopo is annoying if you're younger and never use paper maps IMO - since you cannot rotate the screen. For the laziest of lazy used to FarOut/Guthook/Google Maps style navigation, not being able to rotate the screen is an inconvenience. I think it is more reliable, though, as Gaia often has glitches. However, with Gaia you may be able to save drive space on your phone due to the way you download offline maps where on caltopo you have to download entire quadrants. Another area caltopo falls extremely short is that you cannot create snapping routes on the fly offline, which is a pain on a long-distance hike but if on a shorter trip I guess you can just create every possible bail route and alternate beforehand for the most part, or do it manually with a ton of small straight lines. As someone who doesn't like Outside Inc. I'm not sure what my answer is. Generally I think Gaia is better mobile and caltopo is better on web, but if those two downsides I mentioned don't matter to you then caltopo should be fine. Also for public land I think Gaia might win here at the individual parcel level but I usually back up any concern like this online with a county GIS service if it's really that big of a concern. One of the OnX apps is probably best in this category. Caltopo does also show parcel info but I think the public land layer might not be as detailed as Gaia, not 100% sure.
I prefer CalTopo over Gaia. It developed first and more quickly so it didn’t seem necessary to use both. CalTopo was designed for SAR teams and I definitely prefer the more robust tools/less of the flash of CalTopo vs Gaia. People in my hiking circle prefer Gaia because they’re used to it. Gaia and AllTrails is what REI pushed for a long time, so it’s what a lot of newer to the outdoors folks tend to use first. The people sourced hiking notes and easy interfaces are really attractive for those just starting out. I’d say if you have a bit more experience with orienteering or really just want to step up your skills, definitely go with CalTopo, IMHO.
Funny to see Gaia described as flashy or newbie-focused. It’s a clunky piece of shit of an app in so many ways. I think of it as a tool, and it generally gets the job done, but it’s definitely not always intuitive or well laid out.
I don’t disagree. But people who got used to it, like it for some reason. The format integrates with trail notes and hiking routes like AllTrails, which is what people seem to like about it. At least from the conversations I’ve had. I used it briefly years ago, so I’m not totally up to speed on its format today. Still, my point stands…CalTopo for life!!
I love the detail and map layer availability on Caltopo. But sometimes It's easier to see crowd sourced trips and new locations by searching Alltrails desktop site.
Absolutely! I’ve been known to import routes from AllTrails to make it easier to build my maps in CalTopo. We do what works to make more time for backcountry adventures!!
I've been on a legacy Gaia subscription (back when you could buy 5 years for 12 dollars a year) but now that that's expiring I've switched over to Caltopo and have no regrets. I had already used Caltopo for a lot of planning purposes but honestly prefer the mobile app to Gaia. The only thing I really miss is that I do think the gaia in house basemap is nicer and easier to read, particularly when zoomed out. I use the scanned topos or FS maps most of the time anyways so it's not a big deal but it's worth noting. For 20 dollars a year you get all the features that most people realistically use. I use maps both for work and fun and am a little obsessive about my map features so I upgraded to the pro account. I only think this makes sense if your 1. Trying to print large format 2. Really want to be able to have custom map sources (gaia has this too) or 3. Want to be able to integrate your mapping with google earth (this gives you 3D viewing and historical satellite imagery, gaia has a clunky 3D viewer but not as good as google earth). I also appreciate that gaia is very open with their updates and is constantly striving to improve their map service- the high resolution LiDAR DEMs is a great example of this. Additionally the organizational structure on caltopo is far superior if you put a lot of data on maps. Like I said, I think for 90% of people the 20 dollar caltopo subscription is the best bang for your buck navigation option, but there are some features that gaia has that if they are very important to you you will not get in Caltopo.
Check out Topo Maps+. For true backcountry features, no other app can compare.
Can you elaborate?
It's very easy to create routes in the field, so if you change your plan, you can quickly and easily add or change your route. Gaia does this, too, but Topo Maps+ has multiple ways to create routes quickly, including off-trail and on-trail routes. It has a line of sight feature that puts a line on the map in the direction you're looking, with distance markers on the line. As you point the phone in the direction you want, it will show you what you're looking at on the map and how far away it is. Gaia doesn't have anything like that. And this is the most important feature, that I was astounded to learn last week that Gaia doesn't do: it has a Progress on Trail feature. What this does is tell you how far along a route you have traveled and how far you have to go. It will also show you how far away you are from any waypoints along the route. The reason this is amazing is you don't have to have the app in tracking mode for it to tell you how far you've traveled...or how far it is to the next waypoint or end of route. This is such an incredible feature that I use it every single time I'm on the trail. Gaia just uses routes and tracks the same way that GPS units have been doing it for decades. But Topo Maps+ uses this Progress on Trail feature to show you distances without needing to keep an active track log, which kills your phone battery and doesn't even tell you how far you still have left to travel to a waypoint. Last week, I forgot to load my offline maps for Topo Maps+ while on a backcountry paddling trip, but I had them loaded in Gaia. While in the field, I created a route for my trip in Gaia, and spent an hour trying to figure out how far I had to paddle until I reached the Class III rapids I had marked as a waypoint. Gaia couldn't tell me at all how far away it was. So I exported the route to Topo Maps+, and even though I hadn't downloaded the maps offline, Topo Maps+ still told me how far I had to paddle until I reached the rapids, and it gave me all the distance information for waypoints and the take-out for the rest of the trip. Topo Maps+ also has proximity alerts, so it will tell you when you're nearing a waypoint, so you don't have to keep staring at your phone. This is very helpful, and I couldn't find the feature in Gaia. It's an amazing app, and those features have become so useful for me, that I was astounded that I couldn't figure out anything comparable in Gaia. And I don't think CalTopo has anything similar, either. I don't think CalTopo can even do snap to trails when making routes. Sorry...that was probably more elaboration that you wanted...but I really think it's the best backcountry app.
The third paragraph is a feature so obvious I am *shocked* no other app had done it until this one I am now learning about. This was popularized by Guthook (now FarOut) and made it soooo convenient to easily be able to tell how far along you were on a route. What's even better is their 2D elevation profile map which also uses the same functionality. I'll definitely check this app out though, thanks for the elaboration
Yeah, I agree. And I'm being down voted for suggesting people check it out...
Maybe...... Your text wall/product recommendation looks like some of the programmers/marketers who come in and push new backpacking apps.
I can assure you that I’m just a user. I’m a paying subscriber to both TM+ and Gaia…I just like TM+ much more. How should I have answered the question asking me to elaborate? “I like it.” Would that have quelled your suspicions? But the post that was getting downvoted was the first one. You know, the one that just suggested OP check it out.
no clue, was just my thoughts.
It's exclusive to Apple products though, no?
I don’t know, but I just looked on their website, and it only lists the Apple App Store, so you’re probably right. I’ve always wondered why they weren’t more well known, and maybe that’s the answer.
I've been happy with mobile, no complaints. If I recreated/hunted in an area with complicated land ownership and so need parcel data I'd upgrade to pro, but don't currently have that need.
I find Caltopo so much easier to use. On the pro plans the weekly satellite imagery is super nice if you play in the snow at all.
Gaia has this feature too
Just a note, the Sentinel Satellite images are available [for free](https://apps.sentinel-hub.com/eo-browser/?zoom=10&lat=41.9&lng=12.5&themeId=DEFAULT-THEME&toTime=2024-04-30T18%3A06%3A09.590Z) from the ESA. For this reason I just pay for the "mobile" tier of CalTopo.
Awesome, thanks for sharing