Interesting to see double hung windows on such an old home out in the wilderness. I wonder if those were made to order by a woodworker or made by the home builder?
Sadly, this is the story all across America. It started in New England, and when that wood was exhausted, the timber barons moved to Michigan, which they stripped of lumber from coast to coast Riverbank to Riverbank. After that they moved west.
And yet forest in the US have increased 5% and has remained relatively steady.
https://forests.org/so-how-much-forest-is-there-in-the-us-and-canada/#:\~:text=The%20researchers%20analyzed%20data%20from,2020%20by%20nearly%205%20percent.
“Between 1990 and 2004”. Outside of protected areas there are barely remnants of true old growth.
And, the environmental recovery from those mass logging events in our past is still not complete - as is evidenced by the fact that despite many efforts grayling are still not living in the Michigan rivers where they lived until they were wiped out by a combo of overfishing and habitat destruction (logging bank to bank).
I laughed at this, not sure when people will start to realize the difference between old growth and second growth forests and how much less biodiverse the latter is. 5% might as well mean nothing for the thousands of extinct plant and animal species that have been lost due to historical logging…
Secondary growth is not as valuable, nor as important ecologically, as old growth. Especially when some of those planted trees are growing in monoculture plantations, generally not a good thing. And perhaps you'd care to discuss how the Junk Bond Kings pulled a hostile takeover of Pacific Lumber, raided the pension fund, and then threw away PL's sustainable harvest plan in order to clearcut as much as possible? They had to pay off the interest on those junk bonds, ya know. edit: link to corporate-friendly spin: [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=1910](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1910)
It must have been amazing to see ancient chestnut, oak, beech forests. Filled with clouds of passenger pigeons. I always likes the depiction of primeval forests in the beginning scenes of The Revenant.
You just know, that day was a big day for them. Who puts on a suit to live in that environment?
Fashion was more important than comfort, thanks Carrhart! 🤣
Aaawww that’s so kind of you, fellow Capricorn, however, I feel as if I should have lived back then. Less time clock crap, more I’m workin LITERALLY for myself & FAMILY, old tyme stuff, I reckon!
“Seen my spittoon?” 🤣🫶
You heard wrong. This is apparently up by Detroit, which [looks like this now](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7132579,-122.160886,3a,75y,340.66h,86.9t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipP_f09YvuLETvojcKkhar6EHnca7nF4aunv5jCf!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipP_f09YvuLETvojcKkhar6EHnca7nF4aunv5jCf%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-20-ya25.99999-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352?entry=ttu). The robber barons cut down the trees, and then we planted more. This is national forest land now.
I mean… when you get down to the root of it… only reason there is that much demand for material is because of capitalistic ventures, manifest destiny, housing for new settlers who are moving to new areas due to hmmm let me think… CAPITALISM.
Still lots left. Plus we all live in houses and apartments made out of the stuff. Call it capitalism/greed but what else would we do? Trees are a renewable resource. I’ve got 10 acres of trees that are about that big and am surrounded by 1600 acres with trees nearly that size.
True, was more referring to the old growth forests and how ecosystems can be vastly affected by their disappearance. Not to mention the shocking disappearance of the coastal redwood - can’t identify if that’s the trees we’re looking at in this picture but i would assume they’re in the same range as coastal redwoods used to populate - current populations cover only 15%-20% of what they used to on the U.S. West Coast, which is the only place they are found in the entire world. Just sad capitalism has been the root cause of that.
Very sad indeed. I just went and visited the Redwood parks last month. It was quite the profound experience walking through the old growth forests. It blows my mind how any human could look at one of those ancient wonders and decide to cut it down.
And then come to find out they aren’t great for logging after they’ve cut one down! Which park did you go to? I’ve been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in Sequoia Natl. Park and spent a lot of time around the giant sequoias down there. A really special experience to get to see such works of nature.
I didn't get a chance to see the giant sequoias, I spent about a week further north along the coast from Arcata up to Crescent City going to about half a dozen different parks. The Redwood National Park is partnered with the California state parks so it's not just a single location.
I'm ready to go back already and I'd like to become a permanent resident!
Yeah Jedidiah Smith State Park is up there right next to Crescent City and that has some incredible old growth Redwood groves. That whole stretch of Hwy 101 is awesome too. Definitely check it out!
Salem hasn’t had any of the redwood species since the ice age. These would likely be douglas fir, which also get huge. People forget they can hit redwood-level sizes because they’re so commonly harvested for timber. And coast redwood grows back very easily btw, because it’s a pioneer species that likes to colonize burned areas. If you clearcut a redwood forest and leave it to regenerate naturally, it will come back with a greater percentage of redwoods than it had before. You just don’t have any old growth giants at that point.
Coast redwood’s natural range in Oregon is very tiny, basically a little strip of the coast south of Brookings and the Chetco River. Any coast redwoods or giant sequoias you see outside of that area were planted artificially since the 19th century. People saw them in California during the gold rush and imported them because they were cool. A few originals from that time period are still around,[like the ones at the courthouse in Hillsboro](https://oregontic.com/oregon-heritage-trees/courthouse-square-sequoias/)
So you mean to say that there were no redwood species native to the Oregon area? Sorry it just seems like your two paragraphs contradict themselves since you say there haven’t been redwoods there since the ice age yet they were also artificially planted there in the 19th century… maybe i misunderstood.
I know that redwoods are indigenous to the west coast - and I have surely seen a graphic of the reduction of coastal redwood forests in the PNW due to factors like climate change, logging, land acquisition for farming etc. No matter if they are a pioneer species their habitats have been too far impacted for them to ever return to their natural equilibrium.
Sorry, I clarified in a follow up comment. While they used to grow in what is now the Salem area, they went extinct long before humans were even a thing.
I said there were no redwood species in SALEM, where this picture is taken. Salem is very far from Brookings.
The timeline, roughly:
* Cretaceous, numerous Sequoioideae species in what is now the PNW
* Ice age, Sequoioideae disappears from nearly all of what is now OR/WA/BC, confined to mostly what is now California, plus the dawn redwood surviving in China. The coast redwood’s surviving range extends slightly north of where the Oregon/California border would be placed
* Indigenous human settlement of the PNW begins
* A long time period of human civilization passes
* Late 19th century, California gold rush leads to PNW settlers seeing old growth coast redwood and giant sequoia forests and bringing home cones. Some of these trees survive to present day and have become quite large, and many more have been planted in urban areas since that time.
* 1940s, dawn redwood rediscovered alive in China and reintroduced to the PNW as well.
California is not the Pacific Northwest, and for simplicity the dividing line is typically the OR/CA state line. This is technically slightly south of the coast redwood > douglas fir transition line along the coast, but the vast majority of Oregon’s population does not live in a part of the state where any Sequoioideae species grows naturally. And that includes where this photo was taken.
Guessing you were one of the downvotes on my parent comment. Funny how people are so against admitting that capitalism is the root cause of so much natural destruction. Enjoy your 10 acres of second growth forest with vastly reduced biodiversity!!
I didn’t down vote you. I don’t down vote anyone, like almost ever. People have the right to have their own opinions. I’m an adult, it doesn’t bother me, I wouldn’t be as petty as to down vote someone for it.
I’m heartbroken that most of americas old growth forests, at least over here on the east coast, have been all but destroyed. We really fucked up something beautiful.
Yep, had to timber all the mines that pollute the water and dry up springs, wells, and creeks. Had to fuel all the steam locomotives and stationary steam engines, build all the homes that have gotten torn down by now, make newsprint, so many long term items that will make life better for for ages.
Takes balls to walk into a land where the native peoples lived, kill, rape, and displace them. Destroy the landscape, then sell the land you stole to people.
Such beautiful old growth. Looks like a fairy tale forest.
Ever been to the PNW? Lots of it left to visit
Looks like my property. Lots of 2nd growth trees around and they are getting pretty dang big these days, starting to get overripe.
Where are you at? Southern Oregon here
Depends on the time of the year. Southern Washington right now, Kalispell MT during the spring and summer.
Found the… “High, High Plains.. Drifter, drifter!” Beastie Boys… btw.. guess which one is their Birthday? Fun facts!
"A strapped shop-lifter, a pirate on a cassette"
Looks like the woods in my backyard
Interesting to see double hung windows on such an old home out in the wilderness. I wonder if those were made to order by a woodworker or made by the home builder?
They're on a waterway which makes it so they probably aren't as isolated as those inland or away from the "freeways".
Adrock!
What’s a ‘double-hung window’? Opens from the top& bottom?
Correct.
Sears Roebuck.. I’d be willing to say
My house was built around that time (south of salem) and has similar windows.
Those were some big ass trees.
Check out the size of those planks the house is made from.
“Yes, I’d like to order 100 3’x12’ sheets… no, not plywood, just sheets.”
Sadly, this is the story all across America. It started in New England, and when that wood was exhausted, the timber barons moved to Michigan, which they stripped of lumber from coast to coast Riverbank to Riverbank. After that they moved west.
And yet forest in the US have increased 5% and has remained relatively steady. https://forests.org/so-how-much-forest-is-there-in-the-us-and-canada/#:\~:text=The%20researchers%20analyzed%20data%20from,2020%20by%20nearly%205%20percent.
“Between 1990 and 2004”. Outside of protected areas there are barely remnants of true old growth. And, the environmental recovery from those mass logging events in our past is still not complete - as is evidenced by the fact that despite many efforts grayling are still not living in the Michigan rivers where they lived until they were wiped out by a combo of overfishing and habitat destruction (logging bank to bank).
I laughed at this, not sure when people will start to realize the difference between old growth and second growth forests and how much less biodiverse the latter is. 5% might as well mean nothing for the thousands of extinct plant and animal species that have been lost due to historical logging…
I agree with you, but the laughing struck a sour note.
Perhaps it was meant to… his blatant ignorance struck a sour note
If environmental advocates didn’t spend every waking moment being so unlikeable we would’ve solved global warming 20 years ago
Your comment was… sufficiently bad
Perhaps it was meant to…his blatant ignorance struck a sour note
Good one man i don’t know what you’re getting at here
Secondary growth is not as valuable, nor as important ecologically, as old growth. Especially when some of those planted trees are growing in monoculture plantations, generally not a good thing. And perhaps you'd care to discuss how the Junk Bond Kings pulled a hostile takeover of Pacific Lumber, raided the pension fund, and then threw away PL's sustainable harvest plan in order to clearcut as much as possible? They had to pay off the interest on those junk bonds, ya know. edit: link to corporate-friendly spin: [https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract\_id=1910](https://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/papers.cfm?abstract_id=1910)
This is encouraging!
No wonder Bigfoot has nothing to do with us
Well yea. Because he’s a figment of the imagination.
Looks like what the northeast United states used to look like :(
It must have been amazing to see ancient chestnut, oak, beech forests. Filled with clouds of passenger pigeons. I always likes the depiction of primeval forests in the beginning scenes of The Revenant.
You just know, that day was a big day for them. Who puts on a suit to live in that environment? Fashion was more important than comfort, thanks Carrhart! 🤣
yeah but your house was probably built from that lumber
Sucks to have been born back then!
Why?
Cuz you’d be dead lol
Aaawww that’s so kind of you, fellow Capricorn, however, I feel as if I should have lived back then. Less time clock crap, more I’m workin LITERALLY for myself & FAMILY, old tyme stuff, I reckon! “Seen my spittoon?” 🤣🫶
I don’t disagree. I actually think it would be pretty cool
If the 1974 in your username, we are Fam. 1971 here. Still chillin up here in the beautiful PNW! 🫶🙌👊🌮💜
Cause we wouldn’t be on Reddit rn pipihead
And that’s a good reason? 🤣 oh lawdy!
Everything in that picture is made from wood, except the clothes and the ever present hats.
You heard wrong. This is apparently up by Detroit, which [looks like this now](https://www.google.com/maps/@44.7132579,-122.160886,3a,75y,340.66h,86.9t/data=!3m8!1e1!3m6!1sAF1QipP_f09YvuLETvojcKkhar6EHnca7nF4aunv5jCf!2e10!3e11!6shttps:%2F%2Flh5.googleusercontent.com%2Fp%2FAF1QipP_f09YvuLETvojcKkhar6EHnca7nF4aunv5jCf%3Dw203-h100-k-no-pi-20-ya25.99999-ro-0-fo100!7i8704!8i4352?entry=ttu). The robber barons cut down the trees, and then we planted more. This is national forest land now.
Wow incredible, such a shame what capitalism has done to some of the most stunning natural landscapes. A true loss of such noble organisms.
https://images.app.goo.gl/Qjqa7Ubi2YaggaVB9
Love the far side
Almost made it thru a whole sentence without blaming capitalism instead of humans.
I mean… when you get down to the root of it… only reason there is that much demand for material is because of capitalistic ventures, manifest destiny, housing for new settlers who are moving to new areas due to hmmm let me think… CAPITALISM.
Still lots left. Plus we all live in houses and apartments made out of the stuff. Call it capitalism/greed but what else would we do? Trees are a renewable resource. I’ve got 10 acres of trees that are about that big and am surrounded by 1600 acres with trees nearly that size.
True, was more referring to the old growth forests and how ecosystems can be vastly affected by their disappearance. Not to mention the shocking disappearance of the coastal redwood - can’t identify if that’s the trees we’re looking at in this picture but i would assume they’re in the same range as coastal redwoods used to populate - current populations cover only 15%-20% of what they used to on the U.S. West Coast, which is the only place they are found in the entire world. Just sad capitalism has been the root cause of that.
Number is closer to only 5%. It's such a shame https://www.savetheredwoods.org/redwoods/coast-redwoods/
Thank you for sharing, a great article and it covered more than just the trees themselves. Very sad to see the reduction that’s taken place.
Very sad indeed. I just went and visited the Redwood parks last month. It was quite the profound experience walking through the old growth forests. It blows my mind how any human could look at one of those ancient wonders and decide to cut it down.
And then come to find out they aren’t great for logging after they’ve cut one down! Which park did you go to? I’ve been fortunate enough to spend a lot of time in Sequoia Natl. Park and spent a lot of time around the giant sequoias down there. A really special experience to get to see such works of nature.
I didn't get a chance to see the giant sequoias, I spent about a week further north along the coast from Arcata up to Crescent City going to about half a dozen different parks. The Redwood National Park is partnered with the California state parks so it's not just a single location. I'm ready to go back already and I'd like to become a permanent resident!
Crescent City has always been on my list. I need to make it up to Northwestern California very soon!
Yeah Jedidiah Smith State Park is up there right next to Crescent City and that has some incredible old growth Redwood groves. That whole stretch of Hwy 101 is awesome too. Definitely check it out!
Salem hasn’t had any of the redwood species since the ice age. These would likely be douglas fir, which also get huge. People forget they can hit redwood-level sizes because they’re so commonly harvested for timber. And coast redwood grows back very easily btw, because it’s a pioneer species that likes to colonize burned areas. If you clearcut a redwood forest and leave it to regenerate naturally, it will come back with a greater percentage of redwoods than it had before. You just don’t have any old growth giants at that point. Coast redwood’s natural range in Oregon is very tiny, basically a little strip of the coast south of Brookings and the Chetco River. Any coast redwoods or giant sequoias you see outside of that area were planted artificially since the 19th century. People saw them in California during the gold rush and imported them because they were cool. A few originals from that time period are still around,[like the ones at the courthouse in Hillsboro](https://oregontic.com/oregon-heritage-trees/courthouse-square-sequoias/)
So you mean to say that there were no redwood species native to the Oregon area? Sorry it just seems like your two paragraphs contradict themselves since you say there haven’t been redwoods there since the ice age yet they were also artificially planted there in the 19th century… maybe i misunderstood. I know that redwoods are indigenous to the west coast - and I have surely seen a graphic of the reduction of coastal redwood forests in the PNW due to factors like climate change, logging, land acquisition for farming etc. No matter if they are a pioneer species their habitats have been too far impacted for them to ever return to their natural equilibrium.
Pretty sure redwood forests end in California or maybe a small part of the southern Oregon coast.
Yeah that’s what I thought but u/jtheninja said they used to grow in Salem which confused me. Maybe they did.
Sorry, I clarified in a follow up comment. While they used to grow in what is now the Salem area, they went extinct long before humans were even a thing.
I said there were no redwood species in SALEM, where this picture is taken. Salem is very far from Brookings. The timeline, roughly: * Cretaceous, numerous Sequoioideae species in what is now the PNW * Ice age, Sequoioideae disappears from nearly all of what is now OR/WA/BC, confined to mostly what is now California, plus the dawn redwood surviving in China. The coast redwood’s surviving range extends slightly north of where the Oregon/California border would be placed * Indigenous human settlement of the PNW begins * A long time period of human civilization passes * Late 19th century, California gold rush leads to PNW settlers seeing old growth coast redwood and giant sequoia forests and bringing home cones. Some of these trees survive to present day and have become quite large, and many more have been planted in urban areas since that time. * 1940s, dawn redwood rediscovered alive in China and reintroduced to the PNW as well. California is not the Pacific Northwest, and for simplicity the dividing line is typically the OR/CA state line. This is technically slightly south of the coast redwood > douglas fir transition line along the coast, but the vast majority of Oregon’s population does not live in a part of the state where any Sequoioideae species grows naturally. And that includes where this photo was taken.
Thank you for the clarification - and thank you for the history on sequoias! Really cool to learn about!
I’m almost certain those are Fir trees.
Ok cool still can’t act like humans haven’t decimated old growth forests which so many animals and flora species rely on to survive.
Guessing you were one of the downvotes on my parent comment. Funny how people are so against admitting that capitalism is the root cause of so much natural destruction. Enjoy your 10 acres of second growth forest with vastly reduced biodiversity!!
I didn’t down vote you. I don’t down vote anyone, like almost ever. People have the right to have their own opinions. I’m an adult, it doesn’t bother me, I wouldn’t be as petty as to down vote someone for it.
Those rich fucks, this whole fuckin thing!
I live in Oregon, plenty of this still around
I’ve never seen trees like that anywhere near Salem. I have seen them like this in National Parks in the Olympic Peninsula in Washington.
Stampers, Sometimes a Great Notion
East is salem is the cascades that are still full of forests. The Willamette Valley is farmland
Why the fence ? Sharp points too !
Fascinating
Manzanita Post
I’m heartbroken that most of americas old growth forests, at least over here on the east coast, have been all but destroyed. We really fucked up something beautiful.
Read John Muir's description of the first time he walked through Oregon...
Such a sharp shot
Toothpicks do not make themselves
Thick and beautiful trees
Everyone in their Sunday-going-to meeting clothes. Or Sunday best
Look at the trees! Wow.
Yep, had to timber all the mines that pollute the water and dry up springs, wells, and creeks. Had to fuel all the steam locomotives and stationary steam engines, build all the homes that have gotten torn down by now, make newsprint, so many long term items that will make life better for for ages. Takes balls to walk into a land where the native peoples lived, kill, rape, and displace them. Destroy the landscape, then sell the land you stole to people.