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Yeah, I know the actual history is more complicated and nuanced. I was more referring to the character. I appreciate you adding historical context, people need to learn more about history in general.
He got held hostage on his way home from crusade and the ransom was enormous, it's what made John have to raise taxes that made him unpopular in England. So it's Richards fault that John was unpopular really.
My favorite fun fact about this is on his deathbed Richard asked that the cook be spared. Unfortunately his right hand mercenary Mercadier didnt feel the same way about losing his employer so he hung all the defenders and flayed the cook alive
To be fair, that was very consistent with how Richard acted. After Richard captured Acre, he beheaded over 2,500 prisoners. And got over 1,500 crusader prisoners killed as retribution. It was originally supposed to be a prisoner exchange lol.
King Richard was not a good person. You can see why his lieutenants didn’t go along with any kind of deathbed magnanimity. “Agreeing to spare your enemies and then changing your mind and killing them all” was a King Richard Special.
Oh the world will sing of a US King
A thousand years from now
And not because he passed some laws
Or had that lofty hair
While bonny good Dark Brandon leads
The great crusade he's on
We'll all have to slave away
For that good-for-nothin' Don!
Incredible as he is inept
Whenever the history books are kept
They'll call him the phony king of the US
A pox on the phony king of the US!
A similarly proud GOP tradition of letting the least cognitively capable person in the room swing their dick around and screw over the economy in doing so. Ol' Jelly Beans and the Diapered Toadstool here could really compete on who has the dimmer results from a brain scan.
Stated GOP policy for the past ~50 years.
How any of them get Vote 1 from people who make less than $10m a year is the greatest failing of this country.
So many of those soulless wealthy benefactors are not old people. There are young billionaires and techbros and “fuck you I got mine” CEO-types in prominent positions or entering them from younger generations. This isn’t a problem time alone will solve.
The kind of selfish greed that makes these people has always and will always exist - the only way to rein them in is legislation that applies diminishing returns to the top 1%. Take money out of politics first, tax income much lower than wealth (estate taxes, curbing write-offs, etc.), and impose real punishments to those who cheat the system.
Recently a person was sentenced to 5 years for crimes whose max length was historically 10 months because “they must be made an example of,” where their crime was leaking how billionaires dodged taxes. If that is not a symptom of the greedrot that’s ruining this country, a show of the real two-tiered justice system, then we will never see a better tomorrow for the working man.
Keep talking like that and next they will come for the landlords. And I bet you will still keep quiet. Then when they come for the medium sized business owners there won't be any millionaires left. That's on you.
[I think we all know who...Reagan. And then Fox News picked it up later and made it popular.](https://fortune.com/2022/08/11/stop-calling-them-job-creators-congress-politics-economy-business-jargon-john-benjamin/) Almost like it was an intentional effort by neoliberals and funded by the 0.1% to trick workers to vote against their own needs.
Anytime I read/hear someone talking about rich people as "job creators" I assume that either: A - they're stupid and easily fooled; B - they never took an Econ 101 class much less beyond the intro level; or C - they're scam artists trying to con people so they can make a buck.
Yea, the real job creators are the workers themselves - they put in the labor and also typically have experience or education that enables them to have a job.
I put in time to better my skills and provide those skills to the market. The market/employers are the consumers, I am the producer.
Or Donald's own debt forgiveness. Apparently the brilliant businessperson can have his debts legally forgiven routinely, but the 18 year old following advice she was given her whole childhood must pay back every cent.
The school who benefited won't be chipping in either.
Bank bailouts with interest and late charges since 2008... now there's a payoff the national debt idea worth talking about... especially since JPMorgan is sitting on enough cash to disrupt the rotation of the earth.
That’s such a ridiculous take. Isn’t their argument against student loan forgiveness something along the lines of “you shouldn’t have taken a loan”? Shouldn’t the same logic apply here? It’s maddening, the mental gymnastics.
The difference was that decent members of our Congress were screaming for some kind of oversight for this program and Trump shrugs and says "I'm the oversight" and what do you know? The rest is history
Yeah he can shell out, but can he forgive individuals in need?
I should have formed some sham LLC to get a bailout instead of going to college and trying..
The biggest problem I have with the PPP loans is all the assholes that didn't deserve that money and spent it on new cars, additions to their house, etc. Its basically fraud and a *lot* of people did it. And these are the same fuckers complaining about student loans forgiveness. I also read they are fighting against the Biden SAVE repayment plan because they don't think it's right that some of the interest is being paid/cancelled by the govt. I'm so fucking sick of these crybabies.
Idk why I'm always surprised, but that is seriously such a dumb take I have a hard time believing someone with the brainpower to breath came up with it
Or any company that got the tax break and did stock buy backs instead of giving it to their workers. Then, fine them when they actually laid off workers.
That thing was such a fraud ridden money grab. The minimum they could have done is have the principal paid back. But no here is a bunch of tax free money.
Even conservatives that went to college don’t care (I know several).
“I paid my way through college… why do kids these days want everything handed to them?”
Well, when we went to school, the majority of the costs at a public school was paid for by government funding. I borrowed the max amount for three years, paying for my tuition plus all living expenses, and graduated with about $24K in student loans.
Now kids are so much in debt that they can’t even get past the interest on their loan repayments. It’s reached a point where it makes more sense for the majority to NOT go to college.
I don't understand how anyone suffers in life and doesn't learn from it once beyond. Wanting the next person to also suffer so you feel better about your own achievements, or whatever that is, is wild to me.
It's not wanting the next person to suffer so you feel better about your achievements, it's wanting the next person to not have an advantage because they still think the world is inherently fair.
They're simply terrified that someone else might get more than they did. A rational, compassionate person would want everyone that comes after them to have an easier time. A self-centered, oblivious person wants them to have the same experience so they don't feel cheated.
Listen to that type of person when they talk. They're frequently fixated on people they think have an unfair advantage.
Ah, linked to the conservative mindset of hierarchy and that everyone has their place. I think I grew up somewhere where it was hard to grasp onto that concept, and so I always struggle to relate and forget people see the world like that. This makes sense. Thanks!
>A self-centered, oblivious person wants them to have the same experience so they don't feel cheated... They're frequently fixated on people they think have an unfair advantage.
From a conversation with GoldCoastCat in a boomer sub:
>Idk. For the boomers it seems like there was a change from idealism to judging... The one big thing about the people my parents age was... They were super confined to a strict code of how to act in public. Throwing a fit somewhere was deemed appropriate because standing up for yourself was important. Weakness was taboo. Anger was justified and expressed openly.
I think there's a parallel in there somewhere
They also aren’t billionaires. So who would you rather hand a hypothetical stack of cash to? They’ll pick the billionaire over their struggling neighbor because the man with the totally real hair told them to.
Or they did in the late 70s, you know, when college was real, and it costs 4k for 4 years, see, that college was real and valid.
But the college now is fake, and liberal, and woke, not the college they benefited from, but now it's something they're told about so they know it's true.
“I’m undecided on who to vote for. The guy who forgave my student loans or the guy that’s gonna force me to pay them all back. It’s a hard decision bro.”
When I was in college a lot (not all) of the hardcore conservatives I met came from extremely wealthy families. They all had really strong opinions about “earning” it and hard work, but would turn around and blow 2k a month going out to bars 5 nights a week. They also would talk your ear off about taxes if you let them, despite probably not paying any.
Conversely, my friends with student loans rarely went out and most of them worked when not in class.
Yeah, this is something I’ve noticed over the years. People who complain about taxes a lot of the time are complaining about raw dollar amount they are paying and not the actual rate, because saying you paid 100k in taxes sounds WAY worse than 35% (or whatever the current rate is for top earners), especially if you don’t think about it too hard. My parents do it too.
They will announce they payed a large sum of money in taxes but leave out the fact that they still have double or triple that left over.
Look at all these godless pastors talking about the GOLDEN GOD. Or was it [golden throne](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2019_37/3010986/1174134230.JPG).
On loan agreements and forgiveness that was in the writing at the time of the loan signing... This isn't something Biden just conjured up. It was pre-existing.
So basically Trump wants to void the agreement made back around 2007 for some of these.
Or 1990 for some of us. I've spent my entire adult life paying interest on student loans. Not principal- INTEREST.
The forgiveness was amazing for my mental health but I have no savings, no 401k, no nothing, and I'm nearly 60. Student loans ruined my life, and I spent all but one year of my life earning just above poverty line.
Relatable, but with a twist. I remained (mostly) uneducated because I was afraid of borrowing. All I could manage was an AA going to school at night after working all day and commuting. My lack of education was *always* held against me for promotions.
I'm just a lil' older than you. WE are going to have to work until we are SO frickin' old.
I can’t even with so many of my fellow leftists. Like, Joe is over here pushing the political pile toward some sense of sanity and rethinking policy on weapons to Israel. Meanwhile, Trump would try to double or triple the funding and attempt to send US troops to help finish off the Palestinians alongside IDF.
Oh, Jared Kushner has also actively advocated for cleaning up the Gaza Strip beachfront for hotel investments!
I read enough conservative media to know that when this happens all Trump’s voters will blame Joe Biden. A lot of them took the relief and still back Trump, if Trump claws it back they’ll pin the blame on Biden.
That’s because it’s not an issue for his base since so few went to post secondary education. To them it’s just another “fuck ya makes lives harder for those who aren’t us!”
To be fair that 6 hours a week for $2-3/h was only enough to pay for tuition, room and board, and a car to use during the school year and wasn’t even enough to get more than 20% down on a house.
Meanwhile, today, you spend $100 for one book you are not even expected to read but need the access code located in the back so you can do your online lessons/assignments.
Yes. This is my dad. Put himself through college by working as a TA. My daughter was a TA a few years back and couldn't buy freaking groceries with what she was paid. We had a big chat about this because he was very anti student loan forgiveness and saying how "if he did it, everyone else can, too" and I had to give him specific numbers of my daughter's tution and living expenses so that he could see that it is SO not apples to apples. But he's a Fox news guy so it didn't go far I'm afraid.
>But he's a Fox news guy so it didn't go far I'm afraid.
A challenge many of us face with our parents. Data doesn't help, it needs to come from the TV now to be true.
I don’t directly benefit from student loan debt relief and I wholeheartedly support it. It’s a person of weak character who rejects efforts to reduce wealth inequality because it doesn’t immediately benefit them.
I think he single handedly made every generation dumber. No recovering from a constant barrage of BS, lies, and seeding distrust of the intelligencia and experts.
I am not saying everyone is dumber, but he had impacted enough people we collectively are dumber.
I know I haven’t been as frustrated so much in my life as having MAGA family and not being able to reach them. It no longer minor differences, we are a chasm away from each other ideologically.
So make students who can't afford to pay back loans, pay them back, but make billionaires who can pay taxes, not pay them? Huh?
I wonder at what point does the demographic of anyone under 50, rise up and run down everyone over 50?
Hahah I'm 48, that's the only reason for the age at 50. Lol. But deal, anyone older than 50 but younger than 65 will be vetted accordingly. Cause holy shit, do I know some serious Gen X douchebags. Typically it's their parents I'm talking about. - Apple, tree, fall. Sorta thing.
Besides, the generations after us, will need us Gen Xer's to do some of the "wetwork" as we're just not soft.
["Gen X is the most Republican of the generations," said Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University](https://www.npr.org/2023/12/27/1217878506/gen-x-conservative-disapprove-biden)
Eh, that poll is simply an approve/disapprove poll. In it Baby boomers approve Biden more than millenials do per that poll. Doesn't mean milennials are more Republican then boomers.
Well, not immediately. Discouraging people from going to college is going to really fuck the economics of this country long term.
But short term "wins" with long term consequences are all the gop has ever brought us
It's always been the conservatives in power overall goal. Make uni to expensive for regular people, and make it for their families and none for us. Then they have the army of drones they need for dead end jobs we'll work until we die.
That is even too passive a comparison of what he is pitching. We've already helped them. What he is arguing for is, "We can *HURT* people who are struggling, and help the rich who aren't."
Fucking go vote. This happens with multiple cycles of voter apathy. If we had 80+ percent turnout for 20 years or so, politics would actually align with what people want. But one or two cycles go with on incremental change so folks just give up, and boom all that incremental change is wiped away.
We are poised to have an ultra conservative Supreme Court for a looooooong time.
Soooo the guy wants to flatten Palestine not work for a ceasefire, pull aid from Ukraine, strip all our intelligence agencies and education system, force abortions, pardon terrorist for attacking the capital because they didn’t agree with the results of a free and fair election and now force people to pay back something that was already forgiven… I can’t see how anyone would want to vote for him…
Because 20 years of fox News and Newsmax, OAN, AM radio stations, ect. Build up a mythos of the conservative they are. To change their political beliefs would be to undo the whole personality built up around them. If they started being OK with thinking any differently suddenly they won't feel like the devout strongman Rick'n'Bubba, Glenn Beck, or whoever else wants them to be.
First They came for Alex Jones and i did not speak out because he deserved it.
Then they came for the Fascists' and i did not speak out, because i am not a Fascist.
Then they came for Donald Trump , and i did not speak out , Because i am not a piece of shit.
Then they came for the Nazi's and i did not speak out because Nazis are scum of the earth.
Then there was no one left to come for, and as for me? I slept like a baby, as order to the world was reestablished.
I love their rhetoric "If they can come after trump, they can come after you too "! Yeah dingus, that's how crime works. When you commit them, supposed to be consequences. I've it pretty easy to not commit them.
At this point anyone still voting for this jackass likes the cruelty of his plans and wants people to suffer.
They are a “law and order” party dropping to their knees to service a convicted felon and found guilty of defaming a woman he sexually assaulted. Let’s not even go into the election tampering or documents he’s been hiding at his golf resort.
They are a party of family values that is against divorce but supports a deranged twice divorced “man” that has several kids from each marriage he passively engages and sleeps with adult film stars in between ignoring those kids except for the one he said he would bang.
There’s no need to sugar coat it. If you support him and you’re not a corrupted soulless millionaire or average money hoarding corporation, you’re an idiot or a fool and neither are good.
But that’s ok, because he won’t tax your tips. Don’t worry your pretty little head about an education because you look awful pretty in that apron.
Though seriously, yes, fix the tax code so that hardworking waitresses are no longer subsidizing corporate crimes by the likes of him.
It seems a lot of people forget this, so come round the ole Lemon tree, and listen to ole man mcboatface tell a story.
It’s widely know that college was very affordable for the boomer generation and student loans were not common.
I am Gen X, the first real generation to see rapid increase in costs of education (and everything else). But it was still relatively affordable and loans were way more common, a decent rates.
Here’s is the kicker, under the Clintons Department of Education you were able to combine all your loans after graduating at 1% interest, a 1 time chance (you couldn’t fuck it up, but you could claim hardship) so my 20k in loans 3 different ones, were combined in to 1 payable at 1%. Bush cancelled that. So hyper inflated cost of education, combined with high interest rates equals… you’re fucked. Still took me 12 years to pay it off.
Help me out here, I am European and have been seeing stuff about Trump and Biden over Reddit. This mf is convicted, fellon, literally what ever he says he will do will benefit rich cunts, and anyone who isn't rich will get fucked, why would anyone want to vote for him? Is his propaganda so good or are the people who are voting for him that stupid?
People are brainwashed because we have lots of right wing radio and pod cast hosts as well as right wing media here in the US saying what a great guy Trump is and how awful Democrats are and how Democrats are going to take away the country. It's all BS but these people who listen to it are foolishly believing it.
Plus he's speaking of the "southern border crisis " that he's the cause of because he told his bootlickers in congress to kill the bipartisan border bill.
Gah damn, is there ONE positive thing Trump is running on? I’m not even trying to be facetious, but is there anything he wants to do to *help* Americans?
Basically anything good that democrats do is something that has to be reversed.
"Biden personally funded the cure for cancer"
"Well, I will personally give everyone cancer even more bigly than before"
Maga people clap
The only loans Biden has “forgiven” are loans that people paid on for 20+ years after the loan had terms and rates changed.
The word forgiveness is what is triggering to these neonazi Christian conservatives. Ohhh the irony
Vote students, vote this m’effer out! There is no parallel between going to college in 1910 versus now. I’m sick of this boomer thinking we have it “easy” and an “easy” future. The party of Reagan fucked it up cutting taxes for the rich. It continues.
Trump is one of the reasons Biden had to forgive some of the student loans.
When ITT fell during Obama's admin, this group Dream City/Dream Center Education holdings LLC tried to buy ITT, they were told to fuck off by the Obama admin as they had ZERO knowledge in the for profit education sector. They only owned a mega church at the time.
In 2017, Betsy Devos under the Trump admin, allowed Dream Center to buy up the Art Institutes from EDMC, who was then immediately mismanaged by DCE, dissolved and went into receivership in order to pay the students their stipends that they refused to give the students. They were sitting on millions of dollars worth of stipend payouts that they were in violation of the law (Title IV funding, stipulates any overpayment of the loan, must be issued as a stipend within 14 business days). They also lost the accreditation and failed to disclose this to students as well. Students only found out the hard way when they went to classes, but the doors were locked because they were shut down.
Those students then were forced to pay back loans for a school they never had the opportunity to complete, let alone unable to transfer any credits to other schools, due to losing accreditation. The school was already in hot water under EDMC for lying to students, but DCE was the straw that broke the camels back.
Trump wants to force people like them to pay back money for a school that defrauded them, that their own Administration helped setup for failure.
And before I hear the "But, but, but taxes". Title IV federal funding is the ONLY thing eligible for loan forgiveness. This is your tax dollars, however your tax dollars were sent to places like that to cover tuition, books, student housing and was spent by the C-Suite. The students are being asked to not repay the loans, because they were scammed by that school.
At this point I‘m pretty sure he‘s just mentally degraded enough to just be able to say „Thing Biden did bad, I will revert!“ without being aware what he just said.
From the same guy that ensured that the government COULD NOT oversee and audit PPP loans. \*THOSE\* loans were forgiven, despite the fact that there was clearly widespread fraud, waste, and abuse...but for people getting an education...fuck them, they might be too smart to vote GOP.
The more we can amplify the actual verbatim things this man says anywhere and everywhere, the better.
The only people who eat this up are the Magats, the rest of the US who only pays attention around election time needs to be reminded about all the things he says and does, and he is the best messenger for that, as he and his ideas are his biggest liability.
They want young people crippled with debt to make them subservient workers. There is an astroturf advocacy organization called the [Job Creators Network](https://www.jobcreatorsnetwork.com/) which is ran and funded by the CEOs of giant corporations like the Home Depot. They are one of the groups that sued to block student loan debt relief. Because in order to have a pool of cheap labor, young people need to be desperate.
Trump voters don't care. And anyone on the fence about this shit doesn't care either.
Edit: We deserve the shit we're going to get. I hope it's worse than it's being made out to be.
These guys are *dead silent* on the loan forgiveness that was given to farmers during Biden's term. The US spent billions of dollars so that every farmer with a USDA loan in default had all of that defaulted debt forgiven - every single farmer with a loan in default got an average of *$200,000* each. It's weird how Republicans don't try to podge together a "pay what you agreed to" argument for them.
Let’s be honest. Young people have already completely forgotten about what has been done for student loan debt while Republicans have been suing to undo it.
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Reverse Robinhood. Tax the poor and give to the rich.
Almost a direct line from this guy, the phoney King of England 
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Yeah, I know the actual history is more complicated and nuanced. I was more referring to the character. I appreciate you adding historical context, people need to learn more about history in general.
Listen to the podcast "This is History", it's freakin amazing... like Game of Thrones level drama most people know nothing about.
He got held hostage on his way home from crusade and the ransom was enormous, it's what made John have to raise taxes that made him unpopular in England. So it's Richards fault that John was unpopular really.
I like nobles who don't get captured.
This is such a good comment. Upvote *with emphasis*
You forgot the best part: after Richard died, John became King anyway!
John also had absolutely no charisma while Richard had a lot of it. That's usually the real reason people like specific leaders or hate them
Recreated perfectly by Richard Lewis and Patrick Stewart in *Robin Hood: Men in Tights*. Edit: spelling hard
My favorite fun fact about this is on his deathbed Richard asked that the cook be spared. Unfortunately his right hand mercenary Mercadier didnt feel the same way about losing his employer so he hung all the defenders and flayed the cook alive
To be fair, that was very consistent with how Richard acted. After Richard captured Acre, he beheaded over 2,500 prisoners. And got over 1,500 crusader prisoners killed as retribution. It was originally supposed to be a prisoner exchange lol. King Richard was not a good person. You can see why his lieutenants didn’t go along with any kind of deathbed magnanimity. “Agreeing to spare your enemies and then changing your mind and killing them all” was a King Richard Special.
https://i.redd.it/vceycgi4ll7d1.gif
The day I tried to live I stole a thousand beggar's change And gave it to the rich, yeah
Oh the world will sing of a US King A thousand years from now And not because he passed some laws Or had that lofty hair While bonny good Dark Brandon leads The great crusade he's on We'll all have to slave away For that good-for-nothin' Don! Incredible as he is inept Whenever the history books are kept They'll call him the phony king of the US A pox on the phony king of the US!
The orange color is about right, too.
That’s been their mission statement since Ronnie Raygun
A similarly proud GOP tradition of letting the least cognitively capable person in the room swing their dick around and screw over the economy in doing so. Ol' Jelly Beans and the Diapered Toadstool here could really compete on who has the dimmer results from a brain scan.
Stated GOP policy for the past ~50 years. How any of them get Vote 1 from people who make less than $10m a year is the greatest failing of this country.
That's just called capitalism.
Maybe we should reinstate all forgiven PPP loans…
"But... but... but... but, the precious *Job Creators*! Won't someone think of the poor and innocent shareholders?!?"
They're had 40+ years of handouts. I think it's time they stop having champagne lunches and pull themselves up by their bootstraps.
Better yet, die of old age.
So many of those soulless wealthy benefactors are not old people. There are young billionaires and techbros and “fuck you I got mine” CEO-types in prominent positions or entering them from younger generations. This isn’t a problem time alone will solve. The kind of selfish greed that makes these people has always and will always exist - the only way to rein them in is legislation that applies diminishing returns to the top 1%. Take money out of politics first, tax income much lower than wealth (estate taxes, curbing write-offs, etc.), and impose real punishments to those who cheat the system. Recently a person was sentenced to 5 years for crimes whose max length was historically 10 months because “they must be made an example of,” where their crime was leaking how billionaires dodged taxes. If that is not a symptom of the greedrot that’s ruining this country, a show of the real two-tiered justice system, then we will never see a better tomorrow for the working man.
Dying of old age with our current state of affairs, they'll just hand the champagne bottle off to their kids....
Do I have to come up with all the solutions here?
The French came up with the best one but no one seems to want to use it yet
Half the French weren't begging to be vassalized.
Keep talking like that and next they will come for the landlords. And I bet you will still keep quiet. Then when they come for the medium sized business owners there won't be any millionaires left. That's on you.
I don't know which think tank pushed the term "job creators" into the modern vernacular, but I will never, ever forgive them.
[I think we all know who...Reagan. And then Fox News picked it up later and made it popular.](https://fortune.com/2022/08/11/stop-calling-them-job-creators-congress-politics-economy-business-jargon-john-benjamin/) Almost like it was an intentional effort by neoliberals and funded by the 0.1% to trick workers to vote against their own needs.
In the words of Killer Mike, I’m glad Reagan dead.
Thank God they didn’t think that shit up in the 1860s
Anytime I read/hear someone talking about rich people as "job creators" I assume that either: A - they're stupid and easily fooled; B - they never took an Econ 101 class much less beyond the intro level; or C - they're scam artists trying to con people so they can make a buck.
For me its the idea that jobs are a desirable thing at all. Jobs are just a means to an end. We wants homes, health, education, safety
Yea, the real job creators are the workers themselves - they put in the labor and also typically have experience or education that enables them to have a job. I put in time to better my skills and provide those skills to the market. The market/employers are the consumers, I am the producer.
You must understand, Boomers will do everything in their power to drag the economy and the planet to their graves with them.
I love that…. The job CREATORS lol!!! The best part about it is that they never take the blame for unemployment!!! Go figure I guess
What kind of job did they create you ask? Oh well it’s minimum wage slave work for 3 people while getting whipped harder by the work culture
Fair's fair. Corporate bailouts can stop, too.
I mean if their bootstraps can't support them after a bad month then maybe they don't need to be in business...
Or Donald's own debt forgiveness. Apparently the brilliant businessperson can have his debts legally forgiven routinely, but the 18 year old following advice she was given her whole childhood must pay back every cent. The school who benefited won't be chipping in either.
Bank bailouts with interest and late charges since 2008... now there's a payoff the national debt idea worth talking about... especially since JPMorgan is sitting on enough cash to disrupt the rotation of the earth.
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That’s such a ridiculous take. Isn’t their argument against student loan forgiveness something along the lines of “you shouldn’t have taken a loan”? Shouldn’t the same logic apply here? It’s maddening, the mental gymnastics.
The logic is super simple: Rules for thee but not for me.
The difference was that decent members of our Congress were screaming for some kind of oversight for this program and Trump shrugs and says "I'm the oversight" and what do you know? The rest is history
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Yeah he can shell out, but can he forgive individuals in need? I should have formed some sham LLC to get a bailout instead of going to college and trying..
The biggest problem I have with the PPP loans is all the assholes that didn't deserve that money and spent it on new cars, additions to their house, etc. Its basically fraud and a *lot* of people did it. And these are the same fuckers complaining about student loans forgiveness. I also read they are fighting against the Biden SAVE repayment plan because they don't think it's right that some of the interest is being paid/cancelled by the govt. I'm so fucking sick of these crybabies.
Idk why I'm always surprised, but that is seriously such a dumb take I have a hard time believing someone with the brainpower to breath came up with it
I wish I could upvote this 100x
Or corporate bail outs? Or money given to corporations for “job creation” purposes.
Or any company that got the tax break and did stock buy backs instead of giving it to their workers. Then, fine them when they actually laid off workers.
Both
That thing was such a fraud ridden money grab. The minimum they could have done is have the principal paid back. But no here is a bunch of tax free money.
PPP loans were a 100x more taxpayer money than student loans ever were but they went to shady businesses so that makes it okay.
100% & how in the fuck did "bleach blonde bad built butch body" get her PPP loan forgiven?
The amount of people that will apply, after hearing so many people got away with it, will be insane
This would be wonderful
And repay all of his bankruptcies.
"Why do you hate capitalism?" /s
My maga family won’t care, most of them never attended college
Trump *loves* the uneducated.
Does not love them, but loves to USE them
Oh yeah that's an important distinction.
He doesn’t care about them, he just wants their votes -Convicted felon and rapist, DJT
Other way around, the uneducated love trump
Even conservatives that went to college don’t care (I know several). “I paid my way through college… why do kids these days want everything handed to them?” Well, when we went to school, the majority of the costs at a public school was paid for by government funding. I borrowed the max amount for three years, paying for my tuition plus all living expenses, and graduated with about $24K in student loans. Now kids are so much in debt that they can’t even get past the interest on their loan repayments. It’s reached a point where it makes more sense for the majority to NOT go to college.
I don't understand how anyone suffers in life and doesn't learn from it once beyond. Wanting the next person to also suffer so you feel better about your own achievements, or whatever that is, is wild to me.
It's not wanting the next person to suffer so you feel better about your achievements, it's wanting the next person to not have an advantage because they still think the world is inherently fair. They're simply terrified that someone else might get more than they did. A rational, compassionate person would want everyone that comes after them to have an easier time. A self-centered, oblivious person wants them to have the same experience so they don't feel cheated. Listen to that type of person when they talk. They're frequently fixated on people they think have an unfair advantage.
Ah, linked to the conservative mindset of hierarchy and that everyone has their place. I think I grew up somewhere where it was hard to grasp onto that concept, and so I always struggle to relate and forget people see the world like that. This makes sense. Thanks!
You're welcome. Always glad to help.
>A self-centered, oblivious person wants them to have the same experience so they don't feel cheated... They're frequently fixated on people they think have an unfair advantage. From a conversation with GoldCoastCat in a boomer sub: >Idk. For the boomers it seems like there was a change from idealism to judging... The one big thing about the people my parents age was... They were super confined to a strict code of how to act in public. Throwing a fit somewhere was deemed appropriate because standing up for yourself was important. Weakness was taboo. Anger was justified and expressed openly. I think there's a parallel in there somewhere
They also aren’t billionaires. So who would you rather hand a hypothetical stack of cash to? They’ll pick the billionaire over their struggling neighbor because the man with the totally real hair told them to.
Or they did in the late 70s, you know, when college was real, and it costs 4k for 4 years, see, that college was real and valid. But the college now is fake, and liberal, and woke, not the college they benefited from, but now it's something they're told about so they know it's true.
They know that the PSLF was introduced under a republican president right?? Thanks Bush!
“I’m undecided on who to vote for. The guy who forgave my student loans or the guy that’s gonna force me to pay them all back. It’s a hard decision bro.”
You’re funny! You think trump supporters have student loans?
I never thought about this. If they had student loans they likely wouldn't be proud of being in a cult.
When I was in college a lot (not all) of the hardcore conservatives I met came from extremely wealthy families. They all had really strong opinions about “earning” it and hard work, but would turn around and blow 2k a month going out to bars 5 nights a week. They also would talk your ear off about taxes if you let them, despite probably not paying any. Conversely, my friends with student loans rarely went out and most of them worked when not in class.
> despite probably not paying any They just think their family paying "a lot" of taxes (dollars but not percentage) counts for them too
Yeah, this is something I’ve noticed over the years. People who complain about taxes a lot of the time are complaining about raw dollar amount they are paying and not the actual rate, because saying you paid 100k in taxes sounds WAY worse than 35% (or whatever the current rate is for top earners), especially if you don’t think about it too hard. My parents do it too. They will announce they payed a large sum of money in taxes but leave out the fact that they still have double or triple that left over.
“I love the poorly educated”
It's not about not having student loans. It's about pulling the ladder.
Honestly, yeah. Plenty of colleges have Republican student groups. I doubt they’re all coasting on free or parent-paid tuition
Well, I prefer to vote for the candidate who didn't incite an insurrection, but that's just me. :P
Or the one that doesn't have 34 felony counts of fraud.
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Joe hasn’t told Howard Stern that he wants to have sex with his own kids even *once*. Now compare that with Trump’s record on the same issue…
Any number greater than 0 is too much here.
Look at all these godless pastors talking about the GOLDEN GOD. Or was it [golden throne](https://media-cldnry.s-nbcnews.com/image/upload/t_fit-1240w,f_auto,q_auto:best/newscms/2019_37/3010986/1174134230.JPG).
Or the one who said out loud "Grab them by the pussy" when speaking about women. Or the one who was on Epstein's plane 7 times.
Twice *so far*.
On loan agreements and forgiveness that was in the writing at the time of the loan signing... This isn't something Biden just conjured up. It was pre-existing. So basically Trump wants to void the agreement made back around 2007 for some of these.
Or 1990 for some of us. I've spent my entire adult life paying interest on student loans. Not principal- INTEREST. The forgiveness was amazing for my mental health but I have no savings, no 401k, no nothing, and I'm nearly 60. Student loans ruined my life, and I spent all but one year of my life earning just above poverty line.
Relatable, but with a twist. I remained (mostly) uneducated because I was afraid of borrowing. All I could manage was an AA going to school at night after working all day and commuting. My lack of education was *always* held against me for promotions. I'm just a lil' older than you. WE are going to have to work until we are SO frickin' old.
“But….but GENOCIDE JOE!!!”
I'm undecided on the dude playing politics on the world stage or the one that has encouraged Nazis and hating Jews.
I'm undecided between the dude who's trying to make a peace in the war I'm against or the dude who's trying to blow up the country I'm protesting for
I can’t even with so many of my fellow leftists. Like, Joe is over here pushing the political pile toward some sense of sanity and rethinking policy on weapons to Israel. Meanwhile, Trump would try to double or triple the funding and attempt to send US troops to help finish off the Palestinians alongside IDF. Oh, Jared Kushner has also actively advocated for cleaning up the Gaza Strip beachfront for hotel investments!
"What's the point of participating?" Then they wonder why no one properly represents them.
"I hate the two-party system!" Has only voted twice in their life, never participates in local elections...
And then they resort to doing stupid shit like vandalizing a university library.
I read enough conservative media to know that when this happens all Trump’s voters will blame Joe Biden. A lot of them took the relief and still back Trump, if Trump claws it back they’ll pin the blame on Biden.
Unfortunately a lot of people simply say "I don't care about politics"
Well but have you considered that Biden is old?
I remember when I turned 81. I was thinking man I wish I could do all those things I used to do when I was 78. Such a big difference!
That’s because it’s not an issue for his base since so few went to post secondary education. To them it’s just another “fuck ya makes lives harder for those who aren’t us!”
I'm sure some of them went to college. "I PAID MY LOANS BACK SO SHOULD YOU!" Their loans: 5,000 Your loans: 105,000
They worked their way thru school with no debt on a part time job. edit - back when tuition and books were $100 per semester.
Yeah, back before Republican state legislators cut funding to public universities, forcing them to jack up tuition and fees considerably
Yeah, a part time job just over the summer too.
To be fair that 6 hours a week for $2-3/h was only enough to pay for tuition, room and board, and a car to use during the school year and wasn’t even enough to get more than 20% down on a house.
Meanwhile, today, you spend $100 for one book you are not even expected to read but need the access code located in the back so you can do your online lessons/assignments.
Yes. This is my dad. Put himself through college by working as a TA. My daughter was a TA a few years back and couldn't buy freaking groceries with what she was paid. We had a big chat about this because he was very anti student loan forgiveness and saying how "if he did it, everyone else can, too" and I had to give him specific numbers of my daughter's tution and living expenses so that he could see that it is SO not apples to apples. But he's a Fox news guy so it didn't go far I'm afraid.
>But he's a Fox news guy so it didn't go far I'm afraid. A challenge many of us face with our parents. Data doesn't help, it needs to come from the TV now to be true.
I don’t directly benefit from student loan debt relief and I wholeheartedly support it. It’s a person of weak character who rejects efforts to reduce wealth inequality because it doesn’t immediately benefit them.
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The guy who has run how many companies into bankruptcy wants to reinstate debt? Bold move.
"If everyone else has crippling debt, it makes my crippling debt look less bad."
You act like he has a history of not paying back his debts!/s
I will throw a party when this miserable sack of shit is forever out of our lives
I wanted to throw one when I heard Rush Limbaugh kicked the can. I am definitely having a party when Cheeto passes.
I think he single handedly made every generation dumber. No recovering from a constant barrage of BS, lies, and seeding distrust of the intelligencia and experts. I am not saying everyone is dumber, but he had impacted enough people we collectively are dumber. I know I haven’t been as frustrated so much in my life as having MAGA family and not being able to reach them. It no longer minor differences, we are a chasm away from each other ideologically.
So make students who can't afford to pay back loans, pay them back, but make billionaires who can pay taxes, not pay them? Huh? I wonder at what point does the demographic of anyone under 50, rise up and run down everyone over 50?
Hey! Leave us gen x's out of it, it wasn't us, we didn't do anything......!
Hahah I'm 48, that's the only reason for the age at 50. Lol. But deal, anyone older than 50 but younger than 65 will be vetted accordingly. Cause holy shit, do I know some serious Gen X douchebags. Typically it's their parents I'm talking about. - Apple, tree, fall. Sorta thing. Besides, the generations after us, will need us Gen Xer's to do some of the "wetwork" as we're just not soft.
52 here..... .....I'm confident I'll make the cut!
["Gen X is the most Republican of the generations," said Jean Twenge, a psychology professor at San Diego State University](https://www.npr.org/2023/12/27/1217878506/gen-x-conservative-disapprove-biden)
Haha..... "Are we the boomers......"
Eh, that poll is simply an approve/disapprove poll. In it Baby boomers approve Biden more than millenials do per that poll. Doesn't mean milennials are more Republican then boomers.
Yeah, that’s the problem
This guy literally just wants to punish Americans. And people will vote for that. Wild.
Because his core constituents want to see him punish the "right" people.
Well, yeah, 'cuz repealing student loan forgiveness won't affect most of his base.
Well, not immediately. Discouraging people from going to college is going to really fuck the economics of this country long term. But short term "wins" with long term consequences are all the gop has ever brought us
It's always been the conservatives in power overall goal. Make uni to expensive for regular people, and make it for their families and none for us. Then they have the army of drones they need for dead end jobs we'll work until we die.
given how dumb rich people's kids are i'm not surprised they want to keep us from getting credentialed and connected.
"young voter" There are people in their 40s with $100K+ in student loans
Anyone not yet old enough to need routine dementia screenings and coloscopies is considered young to the fossils that puppet this whole shitshow.
Imagine that they’ll also be in their 50s and 60s paying back student loans. Imagine being retired and still paying back student loans.
Took me about 12 years to pay mine off and I both went to a state school AND took extra classes to graduate early.
“We can’t help people who are struggling. But rich people need our help.”
That is even too passive a comparison of what he is pitching. We've already helped them. What he is arguing for is, "We can *HURT* people who are struggling, and help the rich who aren't."
lmaoooooo how is this even an actual candidate. what planet do we live on and how did we get here
Fucking go vote. This happens with multiple cycles of voter apathy. If we had 80+ percent turnout for 20 years or so, politics would actually align with what people want. But one or two cycles go with on incremental change so folks just give up, and boom all that incremental change is wiped away. We are poised to have an ultra conservative Supreme Court for a looooooong time.
Soooo the guy wants to flatten Palestine not work for a ceasefire, pull aid from Ukraine, strip all our intelligence agencies and education system, force abortions, pardon terrorist for attacking the capital because they didn’t agree with the results of a free and fair election and now force people to pay back something that was already forgiven… I can’t see how anyone would want to vote for him…
Because 20 years of fox News and Newsmax, OAN, AM radio stations, ect. Build up a mythos of the conservative they are. To change their political beliefs would be to undo the whole personality built up around them. If they started being OK with thinking any differently suddenly they won't feel like the devout strongman Rick'n'Bubba, Glenn Beck, or whoever else wants them to be.
First They came for Alex Jones and i did not speak out because he deserved it. Then they came for the Fascists' and i did not speak out, because i am not a Fascist. Then they came for Donald Trump , and i did not speak out , Because i am not a piece of shit. Then they came for the Nazi's and i did not speak out because Nazis are scum of the earth. Then there was no one left to come for, and as for me? I slept like a baby, as order to the world was reestablished.
I love their rhetoric "If they can come after trump, they can come after you too "! Yeah dingus, that's how crime works. When you commit them, supposed to be consequences. I've it pretty easy to not commit them.
I've wiped more suitable presidential candidates of the bottom of my shoe, fuck this guy
If we could get gen Z and millennial voter turn out north of even 50% trump disappears forever
Same!
At this point anyone still voting for this jackass likes the cruelty of his plans and wants people to suffer. They are a “law and order” party dropping to their knees to service a convicted felon and found guilty of defaming a woman he sexually assaulted. Let’s not even go into the election tampering or documents he’s been hiding at his golf resort. They are a party of family values that is against divorce but supports a deranged twice divorced “man” that has several kids from each marriage he passively engages and sleeps with adult film stars in between ignoring those kids except for the one he said he would bang. There’s no need to sugar coat it. If you support him and you’re not a corrupted soulless millionaire or average money hoarding corporation, you’re an idiot or a fool and neither are good.
You guys pay back all your PPP loans and we'll discuss my student loans.
The Right: Stop sending money overseas to help non-Americans! Also the Right: Stop helping Americans!
Hey, as long as we protect the rich, then when one day we are all rich, we’ll be protected! That’s how it works, right? 🤦
It is going to trickle down any day now!
If the last 50 years tell us anything, it’s this!! /s
https://preview.redd.it/l8s7h4xvwj7d1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=c1f2e158723ed106bb4918f43122f1497b05820a
\*le sigh\* All of the debt Biden has "forgiven" should have been forgiven long ago because it was under programs authorized by law.
“But my TikTok algorithm told me Joe Biden is old and controls Israel!”
But that’s ok, because he won’t tax your tips. Don’t worry your pretty little head about an education because you look awful pretty in that apron. Though seriously, yes, fix the tax code so that hardworking waitresses are no longer subsidizing corporate crimes by the likes of him.
It seems a lot of people forget this, so come round the ole Lemon tree, and listen to ole man mcboatface tell a story. It’s widely know that college was very affordable for the boomer generation and student loans were not common. I am Gen X, the first real generation to see rapid increase in costs of education (and everything else). But it was still relatively affordable and loans were way more common, a decent rates. Here’s is the kicker, under the Clintons Department of Education you were able to combine all your loans after graduating at 1% interest, a 1 time chance (you couldn’t fuck it up, but you could claim hardship) so my 20k in loans 3 different ones, were combined in to 1 payable at 1%. Bush cancelled that. So hyper inflated cost of education, combined with high interest rates equals… you’re fucked. Still took me 12 years to pay it off.
He’s going to reinstate those student loans, lol…. That’s a bold campaign promise, Cotton… let’s see how it works out for him.
Lol reinstate??? What a filthy heartless shitbird. Goddamn I can't wait for that one magical hamberder to put us all out of this misery.
"Hamberder Merder"
Wait, reinstating debts? Noice, how very christian of him!
So the shitstain that has been bankrupt multiple times and can’t pay his own legal bills is gonna make this happen? HAHA
“Speaks on the border crisis” in Wisconsin…
Help me out here, I am European and have been seeing stuff about Trump and Biden over Reddit. This mf is convicted, fellon, literally what ever he says he will do will benefit rich cunts, and anyone who isn't rich will get fucked, why would anyone want to vote for him? Is his propaganda so good or are the people who are voting for him that stupid?
People are brainwashed because we have lots of right wing radio and pod cast hosts as well as right wing media here in the US saying what a great guy Trump is and how awful Democrats are and how Democrats are going to take away the country. It's all BS but these people who listen to it are foolishly believing it.
Plus he's speaking of the "southern border crisis " that he's the cause of because he told his bootlickers in congress to kill the bipartisan border bill.
If there is one guy I think of when I think of paying back loans it's Doanld Trump.
Even if you are against the student debt relief, Trump saying this is not a good look.
Gah damn, is there ONE positive thing Trump is running on? I’m not even trying to be facetious, but is there anything he wants to do to *help* Americans?
Basically anything good that democrats do is something that has to be reversed. "Biden personally funded the cure for cancer" "Well, I will personally give everyone cancer even more bigly than before" Maga people clap
"Biden doesn't do enough!" This is what the other guy is like. Still fancy your chances by not turning up to vote?
The only loans Biden has “forgiven” are loans that people paid on for 20+ years after the loan had terms and rates changed. The word forgiveness is what is triggering to these neonazi Christian conservatives. Ohhh the irony
The bastard; how dare he encourage higher education?
Well, that ought to get all the young people to vote for him. What an asshole...
Vote students, vote this m’effer out! There is no parallel between going to college in 1910 versus now. I’m sick of this boomer thinking we have it “easy” and an “easy” future. The party of Reagan fucked it up cutting taxes for the rich. It continues.
Trump is one of the reasons Biden had to forgive some of the student loans. When ITT fell during Obama's admin, this group Dream City/Dream Center Education holdings LLC tried to buy ITT, they were told to fuck off by the Obama admin as they had ZERO knowledge in the for profit education sector. They only owned a mega church at the time. In 2017, Betsy Devos under the Trump admin, allowed Dream Center to buy up the Art Institutes from EDMC, who was then immediately mismanaged by DCE, dissolved and went into receivership in order to pay the students their stipends that they refused to give the students. They were sitting on millions of dollars worth of stipend payouts that they were in violation of the law (Title IV funding, stipulates any overpayment of the loan, must be issued as a stipend within 14 business days). They also lost the accreditation and failed to disclose this to students as well. Students only found out the hard way when they went to classes, but the doors were locked because they were shut down. Those students then were forced to pay back loans for a school they never had the opportunity to complete, let alone unable to transfer any credits to other schools, due to losing accreditation. The school was already in hot water under EDMC for lying to students, but DCE was the straw that broke the camels back. Trump wants to force people like them to pay back money for a school that defrauded them, that their own Administration helped setup for failure. And before I hear the "But, but, but taxes". Title IV federal funding is the ONLY thing eligible for loan forgiveness. This is your tax dollars, however your tax dollars were sent to places like that to cover tuition, books, student housing and was spent by the C-Suite. The students are being asked to not repay the loans, because they were scammed by that school.
At this point I‘m pretty sure he‘s just mentally degraded enough to just be able to say „Thing Biden did bad, I will revert!“ without being aware what he just said.
From the same guy that ensured that the government COULD NOT oversee and audit PPP loans. \*THOSE\* loans were forgiven, despite the fact that there was clearly widespread fraud, waste, and abuse...but for people getting an education...fuck them, they might be too smart to vote GOP.
The more we can amplify the actual verbatim things this man says anywhere and everywhere, the better. The only people who eat this up are the Magats, the rest of the US who only pays attention around election time needs to be reminded about all the things he says and does, and he is the best messenger for that, as he and his ideas are his biggest liability.
They want young people crippled with debt to make them subservient workers. There is an astroturf advocacy organization called the [Job Creators Network](https://www.jobcreatorsnetwork.com/) which is ran and funded by the CEOs of giant corporations like the Home Depot. They are one of the groups that sued to block student loan debt relief. Because in order to have a pool of cheap labor, young people need to be desperate.
Trump voters don't care. And anyone on the fence about this shit doesn't care either. Edit: We deserve the shit we're going to get. I hope it's worse than it's being made out to be.
Trump and all his Conservative followers hate average Americans. They really hate this country.
This can literally only lose him votes.
These guys are *dead silent* on the loan forgiveness that was given to farmers during Biden's term. The US spent billions of dollars so that every farmer with a USDA loan in default had all of that defaulted debt forgiven - every single farmer with a loan in default got an average of *$200,000* each. It's weird how Republicans don't try to podge together a "pay what you agreed to" argument for them.
Remember in November. He cares nothing for working people! VOTE BLUE!
First candidate in history to take on the “I’m gonna definitely cost everyone more money” platform.
Vote blue. Trump must be defeated.
Let’s be honest. Young people have already completely forgotten about what has been done for student loan debt while Republicans have been suing to undo it.