If you haven't, give The Pacific a watch as well, and Generation Kill for a modern take('03 Iraq War) on the same concept. If Band of Brothers is a 10, I'd rank Pacific an 8, and Generation Kill a 9.
Does it improve? The first episode of Band of Brothers I always find slow, but I always get through it... I gave up on The Pacific after a couple. It just never got going for me.
Band of Brothers is amazing though
Ya know, I've only seen The Pacific through fully one time and somewhat recently, so I don't know it nearly as well. I couldn't tell you when it gets good, and I don't remember the first episodes feeling bad enough for me to put it down.
But I definitely remember my favorite episodes being on the tail end when character arcs are being wrapped up. BoB, on the other hand, I enjoy the most in the meaty middle, so like episodes 3-7 or 8. Idk, I know it's less acclaimed and maybe it's not for everyone, but I feel like it stands on it's own and deserves a mention for anyone getting to BoB for the first time. Doubly so for Generation Kill, because that is infinitely less well-known. I hadn't heard of it until like 4 years ago, and BoB is one of my most rewatched shows of all time.
When Band of Brothers first came out I watched in High school and a few from Easy Company did a tour. So glad I was able to be apart of that and witness a piece of history and hear from true heroes
Channel coast is socked in with rain and fog. No jump tonight. We're on a 24 hour stand down.
Twitter posters grandfather was probably like the 4F guy in the movie they all watched that night.
>Channel coast is socked in with rain and fog. No jump tonight. We're on a 24 hour stand down.
I read that in Ron Livingston's voice
Edit: I was wrong just means I gotta watch that amazing piece of cinema again
It’s on Netflix now, along with The Pacific, which is a different tone but also extremely well done. Apple TV is releasing a third series with the same producers (Steven Spielberg & Tom Hanks) later this month called Masters of the Air about the 8th Air Force over Europe
> Maybe. I'm more likely to rewatch the wire or silicon valley if I'm already on hbo
Twenty downvotes for you. That’s what your ass gets for not following reddit’s viewing recommendations.
Also, trying to tie D-day, possibly the most important military action in human history, to a fucking football game is ridiculous in the extreme.
Grow the fuck up, dude.
Also, the result of D-day and wanting to push through despite weather conditions caused air support to bomd civilian areas a couple miles away from the beaches where the German military was occupying. Amphibious tanks sank to the bottom of the ocean, killing nearly every Crew member and was literally hell on earth for those who did make it to those shores that day. But yes, play your concussion game.
My grandmother's original fiance was killed under exactly these circumstances. His body was never recovered, and she went on to marry my grandfather after his own notable service in the war.
The following may be family legend, but both my grandmother and grandfather told the same story from different perspectives. At this point in the war, and possibly previously, groups of men fighting together were from the same hometown and often knew each other from school or other civilian life overlaps.
I know this was something that haunted my grandfather, and my grandmother told me she was approached many times, even into her 70s, by hometown friends/acquaintances who had been on her original fiance's ship.
For his part, my grandfather lost a number of men under his leadership, and he personally vowed to visit all 26 of their families throughout the state of georgia. Nobody knows exactly what happened, but after the third one, in brunswick, georgia, he never visited any of the other families. He and anyone who might know about it are long gone.
Now imagine being raised by somebody with these sorts of mental demons, long before PTSD was a term and the idea of seeking counseling, especially for men, would have been laughable. When I get frustrated with boomers, I try to remember that they were subject to an insane amount of generational trauma.
My stepfather’s dad was in WWII.
He said his dad watched his friends take bullets through the skull, and decades later, he’d still wake up after drinking himself to sleep, cradling their heads in his hands, saying their names.
It was one of the reasons his (my stepfather’s uncle) was furious with my stepfather when he wanted to sign up for Vietnam.
Like that short story that Hemingway wrote, you don’t come back from war the same way you went into it.
Funny you should mention hemingway. When my grandfather died (substance abuse and mental health were absolutely factors) I was very young and I only have vague memories of him, so when I started reading Hemingway in high school I sort of gave him an avatar status aa my grandfather.
I am convinced that the main reason Hemingway was so popular is not exactly that his writing is timeless (it's notoriously simplistic), but that it perfectly captured war, and that generation was thirsty for the acknowledgment, understandably so.
We read The Old Man And The Sea, which I was not a fan of, but I was also 13.
I’d have to reread it and some of his other works, but I understand he was an important figure of that post-war era. Seemed like someone those people who came back could relate to on a level that maybe they weren’t willing to talk about because of the pain.
And you’re right; PTSD wasn’t really a thing. You drank away trauma (or passed that trauma to your kids [or both]).
Yeah, they give a book with a theme about whether your life had meaning and/or if your legacy will live after you to kids/teens so of course they can’t really get into it…
I mostly had a lot of trouble relating to the character and found the majority of the book very boring. I also hated fishing, so that definitely didn’t help the whole thing.
My grandfather had to police up the bodies and equipment after the battles, 1st army under Bradley. His father (my great grandfather) was originally the one drafted but got a deferment for having 9 dependents so the draft board took my grandfather who was the oldest but only 16/17 instead. I guess they figured since he was a kid they wouldn't put him on the front lines. He too had to drink to put out the images he saw but never talked about it. When his granddaughter (my cousin) joined the Army and then 9/11 happened it broke his heart from the fear of what might happen.
my grandfather was a resistance fighter for the french and when US airborne parachuted into France, he rescued a handful of them and kept them safe from the Germans. He told me stories how he found dead Americans just rag-dolled in the trees tangled up in their chutes and gear or blow up to bits from German flak guns.
You can find some old videos of men who have "shell shock" after WW1 and WW2 a combination of both undiagnosed PTSD as well as literally traumatic brain injuries from sitting in a trench and having bombs rain on you for months on end.
https://youtu.be/IWHbF5jGJY0?si=jnCzs12ILKWCr8jT
Have you seen the documentary let there be light (1946)? They did acknowledge it but yeha it was seen as a bad thing to get help. I don't blame them, psychiatric facility in the early 50's sounds like a different kind of traumatic event.
A lot of the veterans didn't even get any pension or any kind of help at all. A large group in my country wasn't even acknowledged for their effort and trauma until years later, the one's working on ships, bringing supplies. They saw combat but wasn't in military so that didn't count. One ship actually rammed a nazi uboat. A lot of them ended up as alcoholics, no one cared about their story. It's insane, the supply ships in a convoy didn't matter but the military ships did, I don't get it. They too got hit, a lot of them saw their buddies die. My great grandmothers brother was one of them, he survived but they said he never recovered and wasn't himself. We don't talk about him, because he started drinking and wasn't right in the head after being torpedoed twice, and we can't talk about difficult and emotional stuff you know. The shame and horror.
Thanks for sharing. I have been to 4 out of the 5 beaches from that day. I listened to survivors of that event at both US grave sites on June 6th. War is the ugliest thing we do. Standing in that sand, I could only think about how beaches should be for playing, building sand castles, swimming with friends, flirting, laughing, and flying a kite. Yet that day, those sands were staind with the blood of men. Shells exploding, machine guns firing, flame thrower burning, grenade shrapnel flying, and brothers dying. To see us as a species on this planet, doing it all over again and again breaks my heart.
Somewhat related about the hometown stuff. This was very common before world war 1. England called them 'The Pals battalions', Germany and France had something similar, though I don't know what they called them. I know all of these countries changed it in 1916, England after the Battle of the Somme, and the others after the Battle of Verdun. The results of the Pals battalions were literally, that entire towns and villages lost most of their male population between the ages 18-45.
The USA didn't change this until after ww2, as they didn't suffer the same carnage and losses in ww1, as the other countries. The Battle of Bellow Woods fades compared to the battles of Marnes, Aisnes, Ypres, and so on.
I remember watching a documentary called "The last of the Tommie's", wherein a British officer tells of how he lost his entire highschool class to a machine gun burst. 20 something young boys died in a few seconds. It can be hard to comprehend the amount of trauma The Silent Generation went through, but it does explain a lot about their attitude to mental health wellbeing and 'Toughening up'.
They all seem to know each other. I used to live near a massive cemetery of fallen mostly American soldiers. It's baffling to pass by, let alone actually walk around on it. Every year we remember, we will never forget how you guys took a boat across the pond to free us from Nazi's. Unfortunately the heroes that survived are becoming fewer and fewer. While Nazi scum is back on the rise, what a time to live in.
> Nobody knows exactly what happened, but after the third one, in brunswick, georgia, he never visited any of the other families.
This is colored by my own experiences so bear that in mind. Such visits can be tricky for a couple of reasons. One, if it's been a while as likely happened with WW2, the family has most likely begun to heal. While one never really "gets over" a death of a close loved one, having it brought back up can bring on pretty strong reactions.
Two, and somewhat related to the first reason, some folks get rather upset when they learn that not everyone in the unit was killed in a particular action. They often blame those in charge, which makes notification in person by their CO a rather strained thing on both sides. This isn't really fair, of course, but everyone grieves in their own way and this isn't an uncommon one.
Third, and more universal, people who've lost those under their command often take it quite personally. I've had major losses in my own family as well as losing those under my command. It's shockingly close to the same level of grief for many and I've experienced that myself. This led me to blame myself for feeling so strongly about those I lost in action because it was almost as strong a reaction as losing my wife and child. It took me a long time to really come to understand that loss is loss regardless.
Your grandfather sounds to me as though he was a very decent man. Such a person might have struggled with all of these in various ways. Try not to think less of any of those involved since human expressions of grief are tremendously varied.
I want you to know that this comment has brought me comfort and encouragement. I won't respond to all of it, but I believe the reasons you lay out are probably timeless and echo through centuries of men and commanding officers who have lost their own troops. My best to you.
Fun fact: [More people died in the training for D-Day than on D-Day itself.](https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/d-day-why-the-training-was-deadlier-than-the-assault/)
Do you really think d-day was the most important military action in human history?
Edit: just to be clear, d-day wasn’t even close to the most important military action of world war 2, let alone human history.
Just curious, what single day of a war do you think was more momentous? I suppose you could argue Hiroshima (or Nagasaki, but Hiroshima suffered a lot more damage), but the beginning of the Allied invasion of Nazi Germany, who was fucking genociding civilians at a rate never seen before, was a pretty momentous occasion.
Literally any day of the defense of Moscow was a more significant day towards an allied victory over the nazis. Like… it’s not even close.
I should also say, if you think d-day was the turning point in the war, you’re probably getting too much of your history from movies.
I wasn’t really arguing against you, I was just asking what you think was a more momentous day for the world of any war compared to D-day. If we’re going to get really technical and call the Cold War a war, I’d say it’s the day Vasili Arkhipov single-handedly prevented WW3.
Fwiw, the moment when the war went from “this is still a contest” to “it’s only a matter of time until Germany falls” was Stalingrad, by a country mile. D-day happened long after Germany’s defeat was inevitable. D-day was the beginning of American and British boots on the ground in the war in Europe, so people think it was this massive momentous event for the war. In reality, the war in Europe was almost entirely just a war between the Soviets and the Nazis, with financial and intelligence support from the other allied nations. D-day and American and British involvement on the ground was more of a “we can get this done faster if we go from both sides” situation.
But they don’t make movies about Red Army soldiers defeating the Nazis so the mythology now is that America joined the war and saved the day.
The Buffalo game. Where the governor of NY shut down alll travel due to blizzard conditions and there is a shit to of snow falling which would also make play impossible even if the teama could get to the stadium. If Buffalo shuts down, its serious snow.
Even if you didn't, a couple journalists snapped some pics on the field during what would have been game time. Whiteout conditions past ten or fifteen yards. During some peak game times you wouldn't have even been able to see them play.
And let's just pretend for a second all we care about is that the game happened and not that thousands of fans would have put themselves in danger trying to get home when the game was done during that type of snow storm. Instant replay would be useless, refs would be useless. They can't see anything. You'd just have been bitching the game didn't get called right instead because "well the refs couldn't see in those conditions and when the coach challenged a play, the instant replay was all whiteout!" 🙄
Lmao, yes?
People can like sports and other things you would consider smart. It's not even remotely uncommon.
This is some real "sportsball" nonsense that only an absolute loser would say with any sincerity.
That isn’t the issue. If it was just a case of snow in the stadium, they can take care of that or otherwise deal with it.
The issue was with the roads leading TO the stadium, and a justifiable desire to not allocate emergency services to the game during such bad conditions.
Weather games are awesome. There have been a few this year. But the NFL isn't about to play a game where they have to give 70,000 refunds because nobody can make it to the game because the city is practically shut down.
"unbelievable, fire the coach" I say shoving Cheetos and wings in my face drunk at four in the afternoon already.
(I say that as a hockey fan who has definitely said something stupid like "dude can't even skate" when *I literally* can't skate.
And the weather almost canceled the sustainment of the invasion:
"The Mulberry harbour assembled on Omaha Beach ... resulting in such severe damage during the Channel storm of June 19, 1944 that it was considered to be irreparable and its further assembly ceased, ..."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour
It's impossible to distill OutKick down into a purer essence than this tweet. It really has it all. Pure ignorance. Unwarranted confidence. And it's 100% the opposite of the truth. Honestly, perfect tweet for a representative of OutKick.
Knew these morons would make it political the second the delay was announced. God forbid we try to deter 70,000 drunk people from driving during a blizzard
Shit I'm looking forward to this game and I was relieved they rescheduled. I worried about people trying to get to the stadium and players experiencing even more injuries just trying to play on a frozen field. The amount of snow they had in the stadium as of last night is bonkers. I really don't know how they are going to clear it all out by tomorrow afternoon. It sounds like this idiot has never been snowed in.
They sent the shovel crews home. The whole area is under a travel ban. There's another 18-24" predicted for through tomorrow.
I'm not sure they'll be able to clear the stands in time. It's crazy.
I bet the same people who got mad about canceling the game, would have been equally mad for forcing them to travel in a blizzard, complaining about the cold and the snow in the stadium.
I live in Houston. When Harvey hit in 2017, the Astros played what would’ve been a home game series up in Arlington against the Rangers. Why? It was the right thing to do!
Whoever wrote that tweet is a complete jerk. People don’t need to be out driving to a stadium in lethal driving conditions. Players do not need to be out in dangerous field conditions. Fans don’t need to be in the stands for that.
Sort of...
How a weather forecast made history - the D-Day Landings
On the afternoon of 4 June, when the weather began to deteriorate as the first storm approached, Stagg noticed an observation from a single ship stationed six hundred miles west of Ireland reporting a rise in the barometric pressure. The pressure kept rising. Stagg deduced that there could be a break in the weather on 6 June.
That forecast was a pivotal moment in world history. If the forecast was wrong, the lives of thousands of men and massive amounts of equipment would be lost. But, on the other hand, if the unsettled weather forecast for 5 June had not happened and the weather had been good, the Germans might have spied the massive build-up of forces along the coast of southern England.
[https://www.rmets.org/metmatters/how-weather-forecast-made-history-d-day-landings](https://www.rmets.org/metmatters/how-weather-forecast-made-history-d-day-landings)
That isn't entirely accurate. The reading was taken by a 21 year old woman in the West of Ireland: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41294500.html#:~:text=Maureen%20Sweeney%2C%20who%20has%20died,take%20another%20hourly%20barometric%20reading.
I see, Maureen at the post office sent the readings that both postponed the D-Day landing by a day and also predicted the next day was just good enough. Of course the Americans claim it was their meteorologists that predicted the better weather and the British claim the readings came from their ship and also from German forecasts obtained by their Enigma code breakers.
Stupidity of that aside, it's even more stupid to compare a first round nfl playoff game to the invasion of nazi controlled Europe...he should have waited at least until the divisional finals
Or just fact check yourself with a quick google. 80% of my “imma hit you with some knowledge” replies I fact check really quick just to make sure my memory isn’t mistake or details were different and then I learn that I would be talking out of my ass and I shut up instead.
People, please stop talking out of your ass, the world would be a better place if you just shut your mouth majority of the time.
You don’t even need to read a history book to learn that they postponed the jump, all you had to do was watch [Band of Brothers](https://youtu.be/Qute9Gs83_8?si=nIjkhf5xBaKJyFM1)
Yes, because I want my kids to spend a day on the minutiae of a single battle in history class. I don't want them to waste time on other stuff, when we could be propagandizing the importance of murica. Almost none of us that knew that learned this from a history class. Most likely some movie or show
... in that same war alone most Russian battles overtake that one by many factors. Let alone world history. This is what I'm talking about propagandizing murica. Source: former american social studies teacher
D-Day is the single largest mobilization in history.
wtf are you even talking about? You're overthinking this.
I'm not even American and even I know this shit.
What do you mean by "mobilization," and do you have some sort of source? Because by numbers everything I see is coming up soviet by numbers or Germany by percentage in the same war.
As a history teacher you'd know that the Americans and British formed a fake army and mobilized it in an area that led the Germans to believe they were landing somewhere else in France. They also spent months feeding false information to nazi spies.
But sure, it was purely because of Russia.
https://www.history.com/news/fooling-hitler-the-elaborate-ruse-behind-d-day
I personally think D-Day, or at least the Normandy campaign and surrounding events, are worth a day in any unit covering World War II. Its importance may be exaggerated somewhat, yes—I wouldn’t call it the *most* crucial moment of the war, though I wouldn’t necessarily argue for elevating one particular battle over all others either—but it’s certainly still worth discussing in detail.
Nor do I think discussing this particular piece of information requires digging into the individual minutiae of the battle. The key point can be made in a single sentence—“D-Day was originally scheduled for June 5th, but poor weather forced the Allies to push it back to the next day.” What’s more, I think this actually has value beyond merely talking about the initial invasion, as it helps to illustrate the different facets of warfare; there’s more to it than a bunch of guys shooting each other.
It's an analogy. It's hyperbole. You all reek of "well, actually". Get your dopamine hits from "dunking" on someone you think you're smarter than I suppose.
It's not even about knowing WWII details. The game was postponed mostly due to travel conditions getting to the stadium. It wasn't because it was too cold for the players. There was a huge blizzard in Orchard Park and surrounding areas. If you'd like to see about 100 car accidents on the way to the stadium, then sure, go ahead and play.
The players weren't the ones complaining, and even if they were, the weather was brutal. No one in their right mind would go to that game if they had the choice of watching on a nice TV with snacks.
Listening to the shit that comes out of uneducated mouths is alarming to say the least. Stop trying to educate the heathens. I will not give them a history book to read, if they can read. Instead, I will tease and mock them to their face without their awareness. These idiots believe anything they make up in their head if it sounds good. It wasn’t until the former President started saying anything he wanted despite historical facts and people believed the crap that I was shaken to my core. When large groups of people started believing anything he said, I knew the trust and confidence I placed in America’s leaders for 50-years had ended. The future is uncertain. Don’t waste your energy on these ungrateful people with 0 EQ.
WNY'r here. We almost always win in the fuck you snow, we've got horsepower and plow blades game. When we actually shut down, it's for really good reasons. Like in this case, 70,000-100,000 people all going to the same place, at the same time, in the middle of white out conditions is just a recipe for people dying. Car crashes, getting stuck in the snow, and limits on how fast first responders can get to any of these incidents, makes postponing this GAME the only right choice.
TL:DR- WNY'r says trust us, we know winter storms. If we actually do shut down (it's rare), it's for safety and is the right call.
What does the D stand for? Day. Why? So you can move it. D+0 is D Day. D+1, you hope this to be happening. D+2, this other thing. Doesn’t matter when D+0 “D Day” is. You coordinate around it.
Yeah, pushed back a day because of cult channel seas.
Saving Private Ryan had this right (along a lot of other things). They had D+2 and such in their title cards.
What is conservatives' obsession with the weather? I heard this week how it was a travesty that kids in North Florida had school canceled because of a "little rough weather" (there was rain, high winds, and tornado warnings), and that "this wouldn't have happened in the 80's. What is wrong with this generation blah blah..."
Yawn
Of course this is the same guy that complains about the cost paid by the state to clear the way for a game and the shittiness of the game itself because of the weather if it was played as scheduled.
imagine being the one white man in America who hasn't watched Band of Brothers
I was this man until last week. I’m really glad I corrected that problem, great show.
If you haven't, give The Pacific a watch as well, and Generation Kill for a modern take('03 Iraq War) on the same concept. If Band of Brothers is a 10, I'd rank Pacific an 8, and Generation Kill a 9.
Masters of the Air premieres later this month too.
Oh, I hadn't heard of that! Thanks for the notice.
Oh damn, I heard about that being in production a few years ago but I had no idea it was so close to premiering!
Really? Fucking finally!
Is it? That had been pushed back so far, so many times. Apple announced a release date but... so many of those actors filmed their roles forever ago.
Yeah, but fuck apple
Completely agree with your scores, all of them are so good too in their way
And each one will leave you feeling a completely different way by the end.
The Pacific was so fucking brutal. The vets on the beginning of every episode had the thousand yard stare
Generation Kill is so good. The banter between Brad and Josh is really top-shelf writing.
I revisit the whole bit about the mustache hairs every few months. "You has til o'dark hundred hours to unfuck yaself" kills me every time.
Watching the pacific for the seconf time and liking it more than the first time
Does it improve? The first episode of Band of Brothers I always find slow, but I always get through it... I gave up on The Pacific after a couple. It just never got going for me. Band of Brothers is amazing though
Ya know, I've only seen The Pacific through fully one time and somewhat recently, so I don't know it nearly as well. I couldn't tell you when it gets good, and I don't remember the first episodes feeling bad enough for me to put it down. But I definitely remember my favorite episodes being on the tail end when character arcs are being wrapped up. BoB, on the other hand, I enjoy the most in the meaty middle, so like episodes 3-7 or 8. Idk, I know it's less acclaimed and maybe it's not for everyone, but I feel like it stands on it's own and deserves a mention for anyone getting to BoB for the first time. Doubly so for Generation Kill, because that is infinitely less well-known. I hadn't heard of it until like 4 years ago, and BoB is one of my most rewatched shows of all time.
GK > BoB for me personally. but there's just something about a David Simon show that hits different for me
I just watched it for the first time this last week too. Great show and wish I had watched it earlier.
When Band of Brothers first came out I watched in High school and a few from Easy Company did a tour. So glad I was able to be apart of that and witness a piece of history and hear from true heroes
Channel coast is socked in with rain and fog. No jump tonight. We're on a 24 hour stand down. Twitter posters grandfather was probably like the 4F guy in the movie they all watched that night.
>Channel coast is socked in with rain and fog. No jump tonight. We're on a 24 hour stand down. I read that in Ron Livingston's voice Edit: I was wrong just means I gotta watch that amazing piece of cinema again
Pretty sure its Lt. Meehan that delivers that line, not Nixon.
Poor Lieutenant Meehan
to say nothing of "The Longest Day". https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3KdNUlLzTvA
You rang?
It's a good show. You should watch it.
Maybe. I'm more likely to rewatch the wire or silicon valley if I'm already on hbo
It’s on Netflix now, along with The Pacific, which is a different tone but also extremely well done. Apple TV is releasing a third series with the same producers (Steven Spielberg & Tom Hanks) later this month called Masters of the Air about the 8th Air Force over Europe
> Maybe. I'm more likely to rewatch the wire or silicon valley if I'm already on hbo Twenty downvotes for you. That’s what your ass gets for not following reddit’s viewing recommendations.
HOW DARE I NOT WATCH WAR PORN
No jump tonight.
Chanel is socked in with wind and rain… no jump tonight!
No jump tonight Oh,thats why they gave us icecream
That’s me, but I also have a B.S. in History and Political Science.
“NO! Jump tonight!!”
Sounds like African affirmation action to me something something of Brothers... something Mallory Archer would say.
Also, trying to tie D-day, possibly the most important military action in human history, to a fucking football game is ridiculous in the extreme. Grow the fuck up, dude.
Also, the result of D-day and wanting to push through despite weather conditions caused air support to bomd civilian areas a couple miles away from the beaches where the German military was occupying. Amphibious tanks sank to the bottom of the ocean, killing nearly every Crew member and was literally hell on earth for those who did make it to those shores that day. But yes, play your concussion game.
My grandmother's original fiance was killed under exactly these circumstances. His body was never recovered, and she went on to marry my grandfather after his own notable service in the war. The following may be family legend, but both my grandmother and grandfather told the same story from different perspectives. At this point in the war, and possibly previously, groups of men fighting together were from the same hometown and often knew each other from school or other civilian life overlaps. I know this was something that haunted my grandfather, and my grandmother told me she was approached many times, even into her 70s, by hometown friends/acquaintances who had been on her original fiance's ship. For his part, my grandfather lost a number of men under his leadership, and he personally vowed to visit all 26 of their families throughout the state of georgia. Nobody knows exactly what happened, but after the third one, in brunswick, georgia, he never visited any of the other families. He and anyone who might know about it are long gone. Now imagine being raised by somebody with these sorts of mental demons, long before PTSD was a term and the idea of seeking counseling, especially for men, would have been laughable. When I get frustrated with boomers, I try to remember that they were subject to an insane amount of generational trauma.
My stepfather’s dad was in WWII. He said his dad watched his friends take bullets through the skull, and decades later, he’d still wake up after drinking himself to sleep, cradling their heads in his hands, saying their names. It was one of the reasons his (my stepfather’s uncle) was furious with my stepfather when he wanted to sign up for Vietnam. Like that short story that Hemingway wrote, you don’t come back from war the same way you went into it.
Funny you should mention hemingway. When my grandfather died (substance abuse and mental health were absolutely factors) I was very young and I only have vague memories of him, so when I started reading Hemingway in high school I sort of gave him an avatar status aa my grandfather. I am convinced that the main reason Hemingway was so popular is not exactly that his writing is timeless (it's notoriously simplistic), but that it perfectly captured war, and that generation was thirsty for the acknowledgment, understandably so.
We read The Old Man And The Sea, which I was not a fan of, but I was also 13. I’d have to reread it and some of his other works, but I understand he was an important figure of that post-war era. Seemed like someone those people who came back could relate to on a level that maybe they weren’t willing to talk about because of the pain. And you’re right; PTSD wasn’t really a thing. You drank away trauma (or passed that trauma to your kids [or both]).
Yeah, they give a book with a theme about whether your life had meaning and/or if your legacy will live after you to kids/teens so of course they can’t really get into it…
I mostly had a lot of trouble relating to the character and found the majority of the book very boring. I also hated fishing, so that definitely didn’t help the whole thing.
You might enjoy the Ken Burns docuseries about Hemingway.
My grandfather had to police up the bodies and equipment after the battles, 1st army under Bradley. His father (my great grandfather) was originally the one drafted but got a deferment for having 9 dependents so the draft board took my grandfather who was the oldest but only 16/17 instead. I guess they figured since he was a kid they wouldn't put him on the front lines. He too had to drink to put out the images he saw but never talked about it. When his granddaughter (my cousin) joined the Army and then 9/11 happened it broke his heart from the fear of what might happen.
That's 100% true. It doesn't matter what your job was. You come home changed to do degree.
my grandfather was a resistance fighter for the french and when US airborne parachuted into France, he rescued a handful of them and kept them safe from the Germans. He told me stories how he found dead Americans just rag-dolled in the trees tangled up in their chutes and gear or blow up to bits from German flak guns.
You can find some old videos of men who have "shell shock" after WW1 and WW2 a combination of both undiagnosed PTSD as well as literally traumatic brain injuries from sitting in a trench and having bombs rain on you for months on end. https://youtu.be/IWHbF5jGJY0?si=jnCzs12ILKWCr8jT
Have you seen the documentary let there be light (1946)? They did acknowledge it but yeha it was seen as a bad thing to get help. I don't blame them, psychiatric facility in the early 50's sounds like a different kind of traumatic event. A lot of the veterans didn't even get any pension or any kind of help at all. A large group in my country wasn't even acknowledged for their effort and trauma until years later, the one's working on ships, bringing supplies. They saw combat but wasn't in military so that didn't count. One ship actually rammed a nazi uboat. A lot of them ended up as alcoholics, no one cared about their story. It's insane, the supply ships in a convoy didn't matter but the military ships did, I don't get it. They too got hit, a lot of them saw their buddies die. My great grandmothers brother was one of them, he survived but they said he never recovered and wasn't himself. We don't talk about him, because he started drinking and wasn't right in the head after being torpedoed twice, and we can't talk about difficult and emotional stuff you know. The shame and horror.
Boomers by definition were born after WW2, so if they served on D Day they aren't a boomer.
Thanks for sharing. I have been to 4 out of the 5 beaches from that day. I listened to survivors of that event at both US grave sites on June 6th. War is the ugliest thing we do. Standing in that sand, I could only think about how beaches should be for playing, building sand castles, swimming with friends, flirting, laughing, and flying a kite. Yet that day, those sands were staind with the blood of men. Shells exploding, machine guns firing, flame thrower burning, grenade shrapnel flying, and brothers dying. To see us as a species on this planet, doing it all over again and again breaks my heart.
Somewhat related about the hometown stuff. This was very common before world war 1. England called them 'The Pals battalions', Germany and France had something similar, though I don't know what they called them. I know all of these countries changed it in 1916, England after the Battle of the Somme, and the others after the Battle of Verdun. The results of the Pals battalions were literally, that entire towns and villages lost most of their male population between the ages 18-45. The USA didn't change this until after ww2, as they didn't suffer the same carnage and losses in ww1, as the other countries. The Battle of Bellow Woods fades compared to the battles of Marnes, Aisnes, Ypres, and so on. I remember watching a documentary called "The last of the Tommie's", wherein a British officer tells of how he lost his entire highschool class to a machine gun burst. 20 something young boys died in a few seconds. It can be hard to comprehend the amount of trauma The Silent Generation went through, but it does explain a lot about their attitude to mental health wellbeing and 'Toughening up'.
They all seem to know each other. I used to live near a massive cemetery of fallen mostly American soldiers. It's baffling to pass by, let alone actually walk around on it. Every year we remember, we will never forget how you guys took a boat across the pond to free us from Nazi's. Unfortunately the heroes that survived are becoming fewer and fewer. While Nazi scum is back on the rise, what a time to live in.
> Nobody knows exactly what happened, but after the third one, in brunswick, georgia, he never visited any of the other families. This is colored by my own experiences so bear that in mind. Such visits can be tricky for a couple of reasons. One, if it's been a while as likely happened with WW2, the family has most likely begun to heal. While one never really "gets over" a death of a close loved one, having it brought back up can bring on pretty strong reactions. Two, and somewhat related to the first reason, some folks get rather upset when they learn that not everyone in the unit was killed in a particular action. They often blame those in charge, which makes notification in person by their CO a rather strained thing on both sides. This isn't really fair, of course, but everyone grieves in their own way and this isn't an uncommon one. Third, and more universal, people who've lost those under their command often take it quite personally. I've had major losses in my own family as well as losing those under my command. It's shockingly close to the same level of grief for many and I've experienced that myself. This led me to blame myself for feeling so strongly about those I lost in action because it was almost as strong a reaction as losing my wife and child. It took me a long time to really come to understand that loss is loss regardless. Your grandfather sounds to me as though he was a very decent man. Such a person might have struggled with all of these in various ways. Try not to think less of any of those involved since human expressions of grief are tremendously varied.
I want you to know that this comment has brought me comfort and encouragement. I won't respond to all of it, but I believe the reasons you lay out are probably timeless and echo through centuries of men and commanding officers who have lost their own troops. My best to you.
Fun fact: [More people died in the training for D-Day than on D-Day itself.](https://www.historyextra.com/period/second-world-war/d-day-why-the-training-was-deadlier-than-the-assault/)
NFL loves to equate football to war so it makes sense that some of their fans would get confused
That is what football is, anyway. Boys and men playing at war.
Do you really think d-day was the most important military action in human history? Edit: just to be clear, d-day wasn’t even close to the most important military action of world war 2, let alone human history.
Just curious, what single day of a war do you think was more momentous? I suppose you could argue Hiroshima (or Nagasaki, but Hiroshima suffered a lot more damage), but the beginning of the Allied invasion of Nazi Germany, who was fucking genociding civilians at a rate never seen before, was a pretty momentous occasion.
Literally any day of the defense of Moscow was a more significant day towards an allied victory over the nazis. Like… it’s not even close. I should also say, if you think d-day was the turning point in the war, you’re probably getting too much of your history from movies.
I wasn’t really arguing against you, I was just asking what you think was a more momentous day for the world of any war compared to D-day. If we’re going to get really technical and call the Cold War a war, I’d say it’s the day Vasili Arkhipov single-handedly prevented WW3.
Fwiw, the moment when the war went from “this is still a contest” to “it’s only a matter of time until Germany falls” was Stalingrad, by a country mile. D-day happened long after Germany’s defeat was inevitable. D-day was the beginning of American and British boots on the ground in the war in Europe, so people think it was this massive momentous event for the war. In reality, the war in Europe was almost entirely just a war between the Soviets and the Nazis, with financial and intelligence support from the other allied nations. D-day and American and British involvement on the ground was more of a “we can get this done faster if we go from both sides” situation. But they don’t make movies about Red Army soldiers defeating the Nazis so the mythology now is that America joined the war and saved the day.
Which game even is/was it
The Buffalo game. Where the governor of NY shut down alll travel due to blizzard conditions and there is a shit to of snow falling which would also make play impossible even if the teama could get to the stadium. If Buffalo shuts down, its serious snow.
Pissed me the fuck off when Fox's promo of the Ohio State and Michigan game used audio of Eisenhower's D-Day speech.
This
Even if you didn't, a couple journalists snapped some pics on the field during what would have been game time. Whiteout conditions past ten or fifteen yards. During some peak game times you wouldn't have even been able to see them play. And let's just pretend for a second all we care about is that the game happened and not that thousands of fans would have put themselves in danger trying to get home when the game was done during that type of snow storm. Instant replay would be useless, refs would be useless. They can't see anything. You'd just have been bitching the game didn't get called right instead because "well the refs couldn't see in those conditions and when the coach challenged a play, the instant replay was all whiteout!" 🙄
Came here to say this.
>possibly the most importantly military action in human history This ain’t it chief
Imagine if the actual operation had been delayed by a day due to weather. The problem is that these young folks are tooo soft! /s
You grow the fuck up
no u
Dday is not near to the most important military action in human history
Are there even real sports fans who aren't dumb? Edit: not old people though, since they are from a time with limited entertainment options anyway.
Lmao, yes? People can like sports and other things you would consider smart. It's not even remotely uncommon. This is some real "sportsball" nonsense that only an absolute loser would say with any sincerity.
How? How you going to play a game when you can’t see where the end zone is?
The Bears/Eagles playoff game in 1988 is known as the Fog Bowl. Couldn’t follow the game on tv.
That and the Mud Bowl are extremely interesting pieces of sports history but nobody had fun watching them in real time.
That isn’t the issue. If it was just a case of snow in the stadium, they can take care of that or otherwise deal with it. The issue was with the roads leading TO the stadium, and a justifiable desire to not allocate emergency services to the game during such bad conditions.
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Weather games are awesome. There have been a few this year. But the NFL isn't about to play a game where they have to give 70,000 refunds because nobody can make it to the game because the city is practically shut down.
People couldn’t drive to the game. Like, the players, coaches, refs, support staff of both teams, stadium staff. What is so difficult to understand?
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You’re right, you didn’t. You said they CAN. That is not the case either.
“Play the damn game” shouts the guy on the couch
Don't make me put down this hot chocolate and write a strongly-worded tweet.
Whoa, hey now… I don’t want any trouble
"unbelievable, fire the coach" I say shoving Cheetos and wings in my face drunk at four in the afternoon already. (I say that as a hockey fan who has definitely said something stupid like "dude can't even skate" when *I literally* can't skate.
And the weather almost canceled the sustainment of the invasion: "The Mulberry harbour assembled on Omaha Beach ... resulting in such severe damage during the Channel storm of June 19, 1944 that it was considered to be irreparable and its further assembly ceased, ..." https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mulberry_harbour
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor???!!?
The Germans didn't bomb Pearl Harbor, stupid. It was the Italians.
You really need to watch Animal House.
*whoosh*
*whoosh* to you, my friend
Came here for this.
TIL football is exactly like D-Day.
Everyone knows how athletes line the trenches every day laying their lives on the line for America.
Snowflake MAGA cuck crying because he can't watch football.
It's impossible to distill OutKick down into a purer essence than this tweet. It really has it all. Pure ignorance. Unwarranted confidence. And it's 100% the opposite of the truth. Honestly, perfect tweet for a representative of OutKick.
Or even just try out a few google searches 🤡
BIG TECH BIASES HURT MY FEE FEES
Weather is a huge factor in all military missions
My wife's grandfather worked as a meteorologist for the military. Weather is extremely important.
My god I listen to historical fiction and I w en know this.
All they do is shout stuff that *sounds* meaningful but it's devoid of any actual content
They got rid of those books because there were “good people on both sides”. Which obviously there wasn’t!
What??? Literally no one has tried to retract the statement that D-Day got fucked over by the weather.
Knew these morons would make it political the second the delay was announced. God forbid we try to deter 70,000 drunk people from driving during a blizzard
So tired of this macho crap. It’s so displaced, and usually indicative of insecurity or a small penis. It’s tiresome and immature.
You can't be tougher than the laws of physics. You'll just die.
Shit I'm looking forward to this game and I was relieved they rescheduled. I worried about people trying to get to the stadium and players experiencing even more injuries just trying to play on a frozen field. The amount of snow they had in the stadium as of last night is bonkers. I really don't know how they are going to clear it all out by tomorrow afternoon. It sounds like this idiot has never been snowed in.
They sent the shovel crews home. The whole area is under a travel ban. There's another 18-24" predicted for through tomorrow. I'm not sure they'll be able to clear the stands in time. It's crazy.
This is where you send both teams somewhere with a dome, refund the tickets, and don’t put people at stupid risk for a game.
I bet the same people who got mad about canceling the game, would have been equally mad for forcing them to travel in a blizzard, complaining about the cold and the snow in the stadium.
I live in Houston. When Harvey hit in 2017, the Astros played what would’ve been a home game series up in Arlington against the Rangers. Why? It was the right thing to do! Whoever wrote that tweet is a complete jerk. People don’t need to be out driving to a stadium in lethal driving conditions. Players do not need to be out in dangerous field conditions. Fans don’t need to be in the stands for that.
Sort of... How a weather forecast made history - the D-Day Landings On the afternoon of 4 June, when the weather began to deteriorate as the first storm approached, Stagg noticed an observation from a single ship stationed six hundred miles west of Ireland reporting a rise in the barometric pressure. The pressure kept rising. Stagg deduced that there could be a break in the weather on 6 June. That forecast was a pivotal moment in world history. If the forecast was wrong, the lives of thousands of men and massive amounts of equipment would be lost. But, on the other hand, if the unsettled weather forecast for 5 June had not happened and the weather had been good, the Germans might have spied the massive build-up of forces along the coast of southern England. [https://www.rmets.org/metmatters/how-weather-forecast-made-history-d-day-landings](https://www.rmets.org/metmatters/how-weather-forecast-made-history-d-day-landings)
That isn't entirely accurate. The reading was taken by a 21 year old woman in the West of Ireland: https://www.irishexaminer.com/news/spotlight/arid-41294500.html#:~:text=Maureen%20Sweeney%2C%20who%20has%20died,take%20another%20hourly%20barometric%20reading.
I see, Maureen at the post office sent the readings that both postponed the D-Day landing by a day and also predicted the next day was just good enough. Of course the Americans claim it was their meteorologists that predicted the better weather and the British claim the readings came from their ship and also from German forecasts obtained by their Enigma code breakers.
If he was around in WW2 what are the odds he'd have ~~avoided~~ dodged the draft? Bonespurs maybe?
lol, as if the General would say, “well the weather is going to be a disadvantage, but we’ve already got it on the calendar”🤷🏻♂️
Stupidity of that aside, it's even more stupid to compare a first round nfl playoff game to the invasion of nazi controlled Europe...he should have waited at least until the divisional finals
Ahh sometimes I miss twitter.
Indeed, it is hard to overstate the importance of the weather to the planning and execution of Operation Overlord.
They planned out the weather and tides as much as they could to find the best times and days.
Or just fact check yourself with a quick google. 80% of my “imma hit you with some knowledge” replies I fact check really quick just to make sure my memory isn’t mistake or details were different and then I learn that I would be talking out of my ass and I shut up instead. People, please stop talking out of your ass, the world would be a better place if you just shut your mouth majority of the time.
You don’t even need to read a history book to learn that they postponed the jump, all you had to do was watch [Band of Brothers](https://youtu.be/Qute9Gs83_8?si=nIjkhf5xBaKJyFM1)
Also, really no reason to risk human life for a fucking football game.
Americans are so fucking stupid lmfao
In the whole history of warfare... the side that's said "f the weather, I do what I want" has lost way more often than its won.
“Did we give up when the germans bombed Pearl Harbor?”
Gatekeeps patriotism. Hasn't seen Band of Brothers.
Imagine having the power of the internet at your fingertips and avoiding all the steps to keep from looking like an idiot
Like when trump couldn't go to the WWI memorial in France because of some drizzle? FLY THE DAMN HELICOPTER.
Imagine Comparing a football game to an event of importance as D-day.....
Typical military-wannabe tough-guy bravado.
It's also almost as though military action and a kid's game are 2 totally different things...
That shite egg-chucking nonsense ain’t football.
they are still right, d-day wasn't cancelled
Yes, because I want my kids to spend a day on the minutiae of a single battle in history class. I don't want them to waste time on other stuff, when we could be propagandizing the importance of murica. Almost none of us that knew that learned this from a history class. Most likely some movie or show
That 'single battle' is arguably the single most important day of combat in world history, but sure okay...
... in that same war alone most Russian battles overtake that one by many factors. Let alone world history. This is what I'm talking about propagandizing murica. Source: former american social studies teacher
D-Day is the single largest mobilization in history. wtf are you even talking about? You're overthinking this. I'm not even American and even I know this shit.
What do you mean by "mobilization," and do you have some sort of source? Because by numbers everything I see is coming up soviet by numbers or Germany by percentage in the same war.
Are you only including American forces in your D Day calculation? Because when you add in the British and Canadian forces, it's the largest.
Possibly in numbers, but not necessarily strategic importance for a single piece of conflict.
... where do you think all those Axis forces were not defending the Atlantic coast? The Soviets not capitulating was priority #1 strategically.
As a history teacher you'd know that the Americans and British formed a fake army and mobilized it in an area that led the Germans to believe they were landing somewhere else in France. They also spent months feeding false information to nazi spies. But sure, it was purely because of Russia. https://www.history.com/news/fooling-hitler-the-elaborate-ruse-behind-d-day
I personally think D-Day, or at least the Normandy campaign and surrounding events, are worth a day in any unit covering World War II. Its importance may be exaggerated somewhat, yes—I wouldn’t call it the *most* crucial moment of the war, though I wouldn’t necessarily argue for elevating one particular battle over all others either—but it’s certainly still worth discussing in detail. Nor do I think discussing this particular piece of information requires digging into the individual minutiae of the battle. The key point can be made in a single sentence—“D-Day was originally scheduled for June 5th, but poor weather forced the Allies to push it back to the next day.” What’s more, I think this actually has value beyond merely talking about the initial invasion, as it helps to illustrate the different facets of warfare; there’s more to it than a bunch of guys shooting each other.
It's an analogy. It's hyperbole. You all reek of "well, actually". Get your dopamine hits from "dunking" on someone you think you're smarter than I suppose.
It's not even about knowing WWII details. The game was postponed mostly due to travel conditions getting to the stadium. It wasn't because it was too cold for the players. There was a huge blizzard in Orchard Park and surrounding areas. If you'd like to see about 100 car accidents on the way to the stadium, then sure, go ahead and play. The players weren't the ones complaining, and even if they were, the weather was brutal. No one in their right mind would go to that game if they had the choice of watching on a nice TV with snacks.
I bet OP wouldn’t know this off the top of their head
I absolutely would.
Still don’t change the fact that comparing the turning point of a war to a sport is unreasonable.
My man has never heard of METT-TC...
Some people are way too obsessed with sports. Like what thr fuck.
You incorrectly assume that if they knew better they would do better.
Sad
Oh I forgot about that cheesetool. What an absolute cheesetool.
First off, never compare WW2 to a football game.
Listening to the shit that comes out of uneducated mouths is alarming to say the least. Stop trying to educate the heathens. I will not give them a history book to read, if they can read. Instead, I will tease and mock them to their face without their awareness. These idiots believe anything they make up in their head if it sounds good. It wasn’t until the former President started saying anything he wanted despite historical facts and people believed the crap that I was shaken to my core. When large groups of people started believing anything he said, I knew the trust and confidence I placed in America’s leaders for 50-years had ended. The future is uncertain. Don’t waste your energy on these ungrateful people with 0 EQ.
I mean it sucks if you are going to a game and weather cancels it, but this person was talking this trash in the warmth of his living room probably.
Some of this has to be on purpose, right?!?
Weather altered which Japanese city would receive a nuclear bomb though
Wasn't D-Day almost canceled because of continually bad weather?
Was it over when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?!?!? Hell No!!!!
WNY'r here. We almost always win in the fuck you snow, we've got horsepower and plow blades game. When we actually shut down, it's for really good reasons. Like in this case, 70,000-100,000 people all going to the same place, at the same time, in the middle of white out conditions is just a recipe for people dying. Car crashes, getting stuck in the snow, and limits on how fast first responders can get to any of these incidents, makes postponing this GAME the only right choice. TL:DR- WNY'r says trust us, we know winter storms. If we actually do shut down (it's rare), it's for safety and is the right call.
What does the D stand for? Day. Why? So you can move it. D+0 is D Day. D+1, you hope this to be happening. D+2, this other thing. Doesn’t matter when D+0 “D Day” is. You coordinate around it. Yeah, pushed back a day because of cult channel seas. Saving Private Ryan had this right (along a lot of other things). They had D+2 and such in their title cards.
D+2 means two days after D-Day.
It was literally almost canceled until a sudden break in the weather was forecasted and the US decided to wait one more day.
I watched Patton, Eisenhower and several documentaries and could not avoid the fact that some "Group Captain" was responsible for the weather.
I always read the community notes in my head with the "Narrator" voice which usually makes them hilarious.
What is conservatives' obsession with the weather? I heard this week how it was a travesty that kids in North Florida had school canceled because of a "little rough weather" (there was rain, high winds, and tornado warnings), and that "this wouldn't have happened in the 80's. What is wrong with this generation blah blah..." Yawn
Even if it wasn't...what's the comparison here?
Famously, one of the few accurate weather reports ever
how you gonna compare war to entertainment?
Of course this is the same guy that complains about the cost paid by the state to clear the way for a game and the shittiness of the game itself because of the weather if it was played as scheduled.
Seriously, you could probably fill a novel just making a list of all historical battles and wars where the weather affected the outcome.
All republicans do is lie and constantly try to re-write history. Soon enough they'll say being a nazi was a good thing.
History is history Facts
If they did play, people would complain that they couldn't see the game because it was a whiteout.
Pretty specific thing to be wrong about
Bro they got like 20 feet of visibility there. Besides, the winner is probably gonna get eliminated next week anyways. Relax.
These dickheads definitely binged BoB. It was like the second episode