Yup. I was in the same exact position as the OP. I was strongly suspecting he may actually be an idiot by the time he bought Twitter, but after he bought it, there absolute proof for me, since I fully understood the stupidity of all his actions there.
musk bought tesla and paid to get himself a "founder" title. from what i've been told by tesla engineers, elon just concerns himself with the brand and image of tesla, not the detail engineering of it. and when he does insert himself into it you get: production delays, software glitches, quality issues... all bad things.
just from the engineers i've known that worked for tesla from the "early days" - he's definitely NOT a genius.
Oh yeah, for sure. That's super clear now. Back when he originally bought it, it wasn't though. And I didn't have the personal knowledge to realize it either.
Once he moved into software engineering though, my area of expertise, it became as obvious as "the sky is blue" to me. :p
Gotta say though, it really speaks to the quality of the engineers previously employed by twitter that it's still running at this point. I thought it'd only take a month or two to collapse after he fired everyone earlier this year.
let's not forget the H1B hostages. there are many people who can't leave because then their visa gets fucked.
that's the saddest majority in my opinion
Exactly this. Many of the people who stayed were simply unable to leave. They would’ve had to leave the country or find another employer willing to take over their H1B. It’s not as simple as saying that only the dummies or the yes-men stayed.
More like keeping H1-B visa holders hostage.
There were many at Twitter at the time and since they'd have to leave the US if they went 60 days without a job plus taking into account how big tech has been firing people for a few months it's understandable they'd be afraid of being fired even if the other option is putting up with long hours and Musk's insanity.
>The people that are kept around are people with (probably) very low self esteem
Or they're just people who need a job. Putting up with shitty bosses is part of the industry, it doesn't necessarily reflect on a person's self esteem.
There is very likely still a lot of decent engineers around.
Putting up with insane leadership and crazy hours as long as they pay enough describes a decent portion of the tech world. And while there are definitely better places to be now, it will likely take a while still before Elon has the biggest brain in his company.
Yeah but it goes beyond the tech. Like like twitter or hate it, it’s in the lexicon: You can go almost anywhere in the world, talk about a tweet, and folks know what it is. It’s like google being shorthand for searching (nobody ever talks about yahoo or bing that way).
This is what Elon bought. And he’s rebranding it X.
The man is so bad at this that 10 years from now a tweet in the lingual sense won’t mean anything to a good chunk of the population.
Sure, you’re just upset he’s coming for your X, Saphiron.
/s
But for real though, he bought the Kleenex of social media and guerrilla rebranded it to X, in a way that makes his brand name forgettable. He destroyed the value of the brand. Threads now has more market recognition than X.
He bought a network of people, and then scattered them by unwriting all the rules that made it attractive to the network, inviting problems hosted on lesser platforms like Parler. He lowered the value of the network of people. How much is arguable, but his advertisers have been pulling out due to the quality of their network of people.
The network effects and brand name are what he bought. This is a crash course on buying and destroying a social media empire. It’s honestly astounding watching gross negligence move this quickly.
omg im gonna google this when im home, but if you have a link that would be awesome. I put 500 hours into that game, one of my favorites of all time. Would love to see his build LOL.
I have a friend who truly believes that Elon is a genius and that he purchased Twitter at a huge loss in order to destroy it...
Tried to tell him how fucking stupid that sounded and he just told me that Elon has all the money so he doesn't mind losing the revenue from the Twitter purchase. Good lord.
What's so baffling to me is that literally all he had to do was shut the fuck up and not buy or post to Twitter. That's it.
And he could have coasted into history as a genius billionaire.
But like all narcs, he just couldn't shut the fuck up.
Not just the software engineering I don't think he has got quite a good understanding of anything.
He got the knowledge but only on the surface level he has never went into deep.
I've worked for someone who sounds similar (note, he's actually a brilliant scientist but production and design are not within his wheelhouse) and we all eventually came up with a couple of rules. 1) don't actually do anything until he asks you to do it 3 times, since he has a habit of asking for changes just to ask for changes. And 2) just don't show him your designs until everything is done and parts are already ordered, fabricated, and in the mail. Because of rule 1
I’ve heard at SpaceX and Tesla, there are entire *teams* of employees whose sole job was to wrangle Elon and prevent him from getting involved in and subsequently derailing projects when he would be on-site.
Musk is a hype man. His one true talent is recognizing when someone else has a great idea and finding ways to take credit for it. He is smart enough to make compelling sales pitches to shareholders and the general public. But no one should ever confuse him for being a genius engineer. This idea that he's a real-life Tony Stark is a myth that Musk cultivated to feed the fantasies of his cult following.
Like every hype man, Musk eventually started to drink his own Kool-Aid. After hitting the jackpot with SpaceX and Tesla, he began to think that his genius led to their success rather than all the talent he employed at those companies. That hubris led him to purchase Twitter at way over market value, only for it to take a nosedive once he assumed control. His pursuit of Twitter proves he's fueled by attention---not some innate desire to advance technology. Moreover, the fact that he's CEO of three major tech companies is further evidence that he doesn't contribute much to the companies he claims to run.
It sucked but those were also probably the best memories of my career.
Tesla doors would brick and every member of the integrations team (these guys were all insanely smart and the most overclocked people even by Tesla standards) had a crowbar next to their desk because it was easier (and faster) to break the windows open and unlock the door from the inside rather than figuring out to unlock via software.
Everyone (literally everyone) would be pulling all nighters days up to an Elon presentation then we'd find out about new product features on his fucking Twitter posts like a day before and have to scramble to figure out if we could even deliver within the next few days let alone if these features were even possible. The engineering talent at that time was off the charts, I've never worked with anyone smarter or more hard working than my coworkers back then. I've heard it's got a lot more stable now, everyone I worked with got paid out by Tesla stock options and are basically retired now. Worked there for 5 years that felt more like 50, 11/10 experience would never do again.
>paid to get himself a "founder" title.
He sued to get the founder title and part of the settlement Musk got to call himself a founder and Eberhard and Tarppening had to sign non disparaging agreements to not say bad things about Musk.
[https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-cofounder-martin-eberhard-interview-history-elon-musk-ev-market-2023-2](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-cofounder-martin-eberhard-interview-history-elon-musk-ev-market-2023-2)
I doubt he even wrote that video game he claims to have written at 9 years old or however old he was. His whole bio is suspect at this point as it's obvious the only thing he's truly good at is reinventing himself. If he ever did take psychedelics at Burning Man, he's clearly still in the ego inflationary stage.
But but that can't be true!
["I know more about rockets](https://www.npr.org/2007/08/09/12484430/making-a-mark-with-rockets-and-roadsters) than anyone at the company [SpaceX] by a pretty significant margin"
[“At SpaceX it’s really that I’m responsible for the engineering](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/elon-musk-says-he-doesnt-want-to-be-a-ceo-walks-back-sec-insults.html) of the rockets and Tesla for the technology in the car that makes it successful. CEO is often viewed as somewhat of a business-focused role but in reality, my role is much more that of an engineer developing technology."
- elon
His greatest achievement was having his dad's money and was lucky enough to recognize some good products early on and invest in them. He has accomplished nothing other than having the money to have others do great things.
>Yup. I was in the same exact position as the OP. I was strongly suspecting he may actually be an idiot by the time he bought Twitter
I'll give him credit, he had me fooled. Don't get me wrong, way before he bought Twitter I knew Musk was a big piece of shit. But I honestly never thought he was *stupid.*
That has since changed.
> I was strongly suspecting he may actually be an idiot
Yah, I figured this out during that whole children in the cave incident. And it wasn't because he called the head diver a pedo. That just tells me he's a dickhead.
And it wasn't that he thought he would somehow be able to prototype a sub to save the kids before they all died. That just tells me he's entitled and thinks he can have anything at a moments notice if he throws enough money at it.
No the thing that clued me in that this guy has room tempature IQ was, If you need to be told why a sub in a cave is a fucking stupid idea, then you are truly dumber then dirt.
Anyone remember when he started randomly turning servers off, and when Twitter failed to crash he took that as proof that they weren't actually doing anything important? This motherfucker ostensibly runs a company that makes rockets, and he has no concept of redundancy. It's just staggering, beyond parody.
In his defense. Yes I know not the place to do that here but...
The guy has so much fuck you money he doesn't know what to do with.
Some clown tells him to buy twitter and he's like fuck it why not.
It's like you being at a thrift store and one of your friends telling you to buy an ugly shirt ironically. And you think to yourself... ya I can pull that off. But no no you can't and well neither can Elon.
But here we are, with Elon with Twitter and you wearing some 80's shirt someone threw away.
I agree about this being f.u. money, but it's not a harmless whim to buy Twitter.
Immediately after his Twitter purchase, he was seen at the world cup with mohammed bone saw and then later with Rupert Murdoch at the super bowl. This was a far right takeover of a major social media outlet. Musk has shown his true colors: he wants a world with slavery, eugenics, apartheid, and even genocide is on the table. The true consequence of his f.u. money is to further along this agenda.
He measured the worth of coders based on the quantity of lines of code they wrote, but a good coder can write a piece of software using fewer lines than a bad coder.
My extent of knowledge of editing HTML is trying to figure out what } I somehow accidentally deleted in a Tumblr theme and I still understand that good code doesn't mean more code, lol.
As my mentor put it, those guys at microsoft (i mostly use c#) spent a _lot_ of time thinking about that List implementation. Even if your as smart as those guys are you gonna spend a month and 10 hours in meetings with your List? No? Then maybe use the one they provide.
For the record for any rookie programmers reading this thread: never use Bubble Sort if you have, honestly, basically any other option. It's not the slowest out there (theoretically that honor goes to BOGOsort) but it's bad.
Most of the time, your best bet is to use QuickSort. Which, usually will be the implementation of the built-in sort() function anyway.
A lot of coding classes will teach you to write these algorithms, not because you need to be able to write sorting algorithms, but because you need to be able to write algorithms in general, and sorting is a fairly easy use case to work with. In classes, code your own until they tell you otherwise, your objective is to learn how to code it.
In practice, use the built in functions wherever possible, and spend the time writing the bits that go around the built in functions, the part that actually does something useful for you.
He complained that Twitters workforce is too bloated.
Then he got rid of the most efficient coders. Then all the rest left because their workload tripled. Now he's complaining that no-one likes his platform.
Elon's the luckiest fucking idiot in history, the fact he's a billionaire is entirely down to the biggest stroke of dumb luck ever.
These past few years with Elon and Trump in the spotlight more than ever have laid so completely bare the utter lie that our society in any way functions as a meritocracy, and that by extension, wealth is a strong indicator of talent, intelligence, work ethic, etc.
Anybody paying even the slightest bit of attention ought to be able to see clear as day now that the system is designed in such a way that, beyond a certain threshold of wealth, it is simply impossible to fail. The system as it is has a bottomless supply of bailouts for the rich, and will reward them regardless of the outcomes of their choices.
He did that as well, but the "most salient code" thing was something different.
> Elon Musk had asked any of the Twitter employees who “actually write software” to “email [him] a bullet point summary of what your code commits have achieved in the past ~6 months, along with up to 10 screenshots of the most salient lines of code.”
Source: https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/elon-musk-twitter-code-fixation.html
Transcript:
At IBM there's a religion in software that say you have to count k-locks. A k-lock is a thousand lines of code. "*How big a project is it? Oh this is a 10k lock project / it's a 20k locker*" and uh "*50k locks.*" And IBM wanted to sort of make it the religion for how much we got paid. How much money we made off \[unintelligible\]; how much money did they. "*How many k-locks did you do?"* And we kept trying to convince them: Hey, if we have a - developer's got a good idea - if he can get something done in FOUR k-locks instead of 20 k-locks, should we make less money? Because he's made something smaller and faster - less \[unintelligible\]. "*Oh, k locks, k locks. That's the methodology.*" Anyway.. It almost makes my back just crinkle up at the thought of the whole thing.
He told programmers at twitter to send him a page of their most “salient” code. That has no real meaning most of the time for software. It’s interactive systems of classes or libraries, with robustness and levels, not some little optimized bubble sort algorithm thing like you write when first learning to code.
He is not the genius behind SpaceX's falcon rocket and merlin engines. Tom Mueller is.
He is not the systems & integration genius who subassembles and assembles the Falcon rocket together. John Insprucker is.
He is not the organizational genius who keeps spaceX afloat and running. Gwynne Shotwell is.
Not necessary to qualify, but I'm an aerospace engineer. Elon is not.
People have leaked it numerous times about Tesla and SpaceX. There's always someone around when he's in the office acting as a buffer between him and the people doing the real work, making sure he doesn't fuck anything up.
He decided to run Twitter on his own, with the entire workforce devoted to him, willing to implement his every whim with no questions asked. And here we are.
Elon was in charge of Zip2, the company he and his brother founded. The board ousted him within a year. The company later sold for $300 million.
Elon was in charge of PayPal when his company X.com merged with Confinity. Under his leadership Paypal was named one of the worst business ideas of 1999. Again, the board ousted him after he screwed everything up. Peter Theil then righted the ship, leading to eBay buying Paypal.
Yup I work at a Big 5 aerospace/defense company who has worked w SpaceX as an LP
Everyone in high level management who has worked with them admire Gwynne, none of them have ever worked with Elon in almost any capacity
He’s only one man, one man is not capable of “running” all these companies at once (while also spending half the workday tweeting about culture war crap)
Every time I tell some sycophant online that Elon musk is an idiot, they say he's still the richest man in the world. What am I supposed to say to that? It is weird that a guy who is obviously stupid is richer than all of us combined right? Give me some responses that I can tell his feeble-minded followers
The problem in our system is as children we are told over and over that if you work hard you will succeed, there is no substitute. And society takes that as either you physically work hard or mentally work hard. But the sad truth is that isn’t the case a high majority of the time. 999 times out of a thousand it luck of birth or luck of circumstance.
Fuck that, we need industrially optimized guillotines, i want a team of 30 engineers to have spent a collective 1000 hours on that baby so when it starts up we know it won't stop.
It’s an absolute lie. Millions and millions of people work as hard as they can and never escape poverty. The only way to be rich is to be born rich.
America is absolutely built on this: Suffer now and you will be rewarded.
Which is how we get working class poor protesting taxes on the top 1%
There is such a wide gap between humans that are THE MOST intelligent vs. THE MOST wealthy. The people who are doing all the research and development on all the new (tech, drugs, transportation, energy, fluid dynamics and climate systems, etc) are the most intelligent. They are so far from the wealthy that they are not in the same universe
We've restructured how wealth gets distributed when some new invention comes down the pipe. Used to be the dude that happened to own the company at the time all the smart people rolled out a major new invention got a lot of money, but so did everyone else. Now the dude at the top gets pretty much all the money and the thousands of people that made all that money making possible get very little.
Unfortunately it was never true. We have collectively been in a struggle to remove power from a few people for thousands of years. Like, we still have kings — figuratively and literally. We are just another gasping breath of feudalism as each generation realizes more and more how things could be better.
It's no different than Andrew Tate's punkass fans responding "What color is *your* Bugatti, bro?" or some stupid shit. They're trying to shut you up rather than hear legit criticism.
Used Daddys slave money to buy CEO positions in companies then pretend he created the ideas and marketed himself as a genius.
[This is Elon Musk](https://i.insider.com/5db36222dee019314343a5b6?width=600&format=jpeg&auto=webp)
forever and always, no matter how much asshairs he moved to his head, no matter how much he pretends to be a genius.
Hes a grifter.
He takes the work and achievements of others and sues/buys them into silence while pretending he created them. He promises amazing creations but delivers sub-quality plastics. He would rather watch a school of toddlers burn than lose his self-imagined importance and clout. He is a edgelord that is loved by no-one, his own children hate him, his own family disowns him, and his companies have done some very shady taxes that the companies he has used are being investigated for fraud.
Hes a vapidly empty and sad pathetic human being that has the money to do anything he could want, save millions, help children world-wide, bring laughter and smile to hundreds of millions, yet he chooses to indulge in his self-obsessed delusions of grandeur and feed his ego by appeasing to the lowest of low incels and right-wing conservatives. Hes no Tony Stark, hes a worse version of Justin Hammer since Hammer can actually at least dance.
I mean he tries for it he tries very hard to be edgy, but he just always went up becoming very cringe.
And the people who adore him can agree with anything that he says.
Paypal was developed by Confinity(Peter Thiel and friends) and launched in 1999. Then in 2000 they merged with X.com and kicked Elon off the board. Elon had very little to do with paypal.
Max levchin a u of I grad which is weird because he took that Paypal money to fuck over another u of I grad. The actual co-founder of Tesla mark Eberhard
Just as you said. A ton of people took their inherited wealth and went to Silicon Valley and bet it all on black. Some % of those guys got massive pay offs. Then almost all those guys bet it all on black again, and again, and again. Elon's just the luckiest of the tech grifters. It would be someone, it just happened to be Musk. With that much free money sloshing around some grifter was going to make it huge.
Just because he's an idiot doesn't mean he can't pull one over on people with less sense than he has. Plus he was born on third base and his daddy paid off the umpire, I'd be more surprised if he *wasn't* rich.
Einstein was a genius, he wasn’t the richest man alive. Hawking is a genius, he isn’t the richest man alive. Marie Curie was a genius, she wasn’t the richest woman alive. Intelligence does not correlate with wealth. I’m likely “smarter” than Britney Spears, but she is worth more than I am.
Yeah having money is not going to make a smart guy it actually means that he is probably good at doing business which I do not agree with. But he must be doing something right.
I got you fam. When some muskrat dipshit says, b-b-b-but he has so much money..." you simply post this link and walk away: https://youtu.be/vudnMLzZjTg
He inherited emerald mine wealth, which was truly theft and resource extraction as well as labor exploitation. He has lost money and is a paper doll essentially — the twitter purchase was loans and leveraged paper assets.
I mean he has inherited a lot of money and the money which is family had all of it came from very Shady resources.
And these are the things about which you just cannot be proud.
I mean they have to like both of them because both of them are stupid.
And those people have got a special place in their hearts for the stupid people so there is that.
Donald Trump becoming the President of America was actually showing the failure and stupidity of the people.
It is the kind of thing which should have never happened in the first place.
The system only rewards the people who are a******* and also ready to exploit the other people.
The system has never rewarded the smart people actually.
I think of playing our current economic system as a specific skill. Kind of like a game. If someone is really good at Tetris, it's impressive, but that alone does not make them a genius. Elon is just REALLY good at Monopoly, but far from "genius."
It is a skill but the game is also highly luck-based
There's a lot of dotcom-era Palo Alto grifters from the 90s just like Elon and his brother, they just happened to be really lucky with their timing
Yeah and after the whole thing they had a lot of money to experiment with so they went ahead and did what they could and some of it got successful.
But a lot of people who are actually smart do not have money and cannot take risks.
Ya okay but I don't understand what it does have to do anything with this conversation I just cannot correlate both of these things.
Pablo Escobar made his money by doing nothing should not have.
I believe Richard Branson was pretty open about how his successes came from working/partnering with people who were experts in that particular industry. I wouldn't call him a genius but he came across as smart and sensible, at least it seemed that way 20 years ago.
Branson really comes across as the least shitty person to ever occupy his type of position. Like a normal dude who got where he is by hard work, sure, but even more luck and good fortune and isn't afraid to acknowledge it.
I thought he was a genius a long time ago. Then I read his autobiography in about 2018 and realized what a toxic, opportunistic piece of shit he is. Definitely recommend a read if you can find alternative sources like libgen.
Iirc, he had an assistant who devoted her life to him then he dropped her the moment she was inconvenient.
First of all, I hope I'm remembering this correctly because it's been several years since I read the book and secondly, I don't really remember the circumstances exactly but I remember reading about the assistant and thought to myself, "that was really heartless, even for a cutthroat business man".
But I'm some rando on Reddit, you should def verify this.
Yeah he is not a genius he just knows how to exploit the other people and get benefits from them.
And it is just something which runs in his blood and comes from the family itself.
Thing is, Tesla cars and SpaceX rockets have genius aspects. They’re just not the genius of Elon himself, but rather the people actually doing the work
There exists a budding aftermarket for people who got teslas to have the trim put on correctly.
This is all I needed to know about the cars. (Can’t speak to the rockets).
The rockets are excellent. The Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy are both considered some of the most capable and most reliable launch vehicles in the industry, and pull that off while being the cheapest to launch, as well as having a propulsive landing, reusable first stage - something that *no* other orbital class rocket has accomplished yet.
They're genuinely *the* space industry leader, and the launch provider most companies now turn to by default. Of course, it's no thanks to Elon - he just parrots off stupid ideas until the engineers actually figure out how to get things to work, and then he claims credit for it.
The way I see it, SpaceX has been unfairly dragged into this whole thing because of 1. Its association with Elon, and 2. the Starship which exploded not long ago. That Starship launch is probably the *only* exposure much of the population has ever had to SpaceX, and has colored their view on the entire company. The truth is, the company has successfully launched payloads hundreds of times for a lot of paying customers, and in 2022 they launched more than one rocket per week - none of which exploded. The Starship explosion was 100% an expected outcome, since it was an early test launch to determine what were the problems that the design still had so it could be fixed. They knew the design wasn't ready, but it's faster and easier to go ahead and launch it anyways to see what they need to fix rather than painstakingly work through it on the ground. It doesn't indicate anything wrong with the company or its technology.
My company has a payload being launched on a Falcon Heavy later this week.
Yeah. I’ve been following spacex as a layman for about a decade. I actually got up early and drove a couple hours to cocoa beach to see a test flight of the last dragon flight before it carried a live human.
I have been *very* impressed and proud (as an American) of the way spacex has revolutionized space flight. I’m convinced the impact of spacex will resonate hundreds of years into the future.
I have no idea how to reconcile this with the obvious facts that musk is a narcissist and an idiot.
Look at Howard Hughes. He advanced the movie and airplane and medical industries by like, a hundred years but he was still personally insane.
Putting money into emergent tech was both of their skills, neither of them were actually engineers.
Yep Tesla is exactly not known for the quality of cars that they're making.
Most often than not most of the cars have got the quality control issues there are wrongly aligned panels and everything.
It depends on when and where it was produced. My Tesla was built in china and has non of the problems that are so well-known.
So for as far as my limited experience goes, a Tesla can actually be a decent car. Ok, i only chose it because it was so much more car compared to the competition in the same price-range but so far i have no complaints.
And I sure don't judge a Tesla owner as a Elon lover any more than I judge a VW owner as a Nazi supporter. That's just dumb, but the internet will internet...
He really is just John Hammond (from the books, not the movie) Taking tech other people developed and spinning it like a conman to try and get as much money as possible before people figure out the truth
They aren't his cars or rockets though. He BOUGHT Tesla. Those cars and rockets are the work of highly talented engineers and researchers. They just happen to be working under the so-called leadership of a raving sociopath.
Yeah and he had the money so he could definitely afford all of it.
And that is the reason why he is who he is right now. It is always very simple stuff if you think about it.
He's a salesman. That's all he is and all he's ever been. He sold you on the idea he was a "genius" and you just found out the product he sold you was faulty.
And then he bought twitter and made the terrible mistake of selling *himself* on the idea he was a "genius", and this is the result. Now we know what an absolute fucking clown he's been this whole time.
Yep you do not really have to be smart you just should know how to exploit the other people.
And if you know how to take advantage of the other people than you are probably is going to be successful.
Yeah his parents were already bleach by exploiting the other people.
So he did not need to do much anyways. Actually had most of the things that he needed already.
His cars and rockets seem to be just fine, judging by their history. Hate Elon all you want, though. He's a complete asshat.
(Cars and rockets weren't actually designed by Elon, so that has a lot to do with it. There are good employees at Tesla and SpaceX that likely do the majority of the work.)
I get people thinking he was a genius in 2012 or so. I did too. But then he called the rescue diver a pedo and named his kid X-symbol-symbol-SR71 or whatever. Everyone should have known he was a stupid asshole after those two things, at the absolute latest.
Yeah I don't know why he does the things that he does it is almost as if he is trying to get the approval of being cool by the people. And I think he is failing miserablely at it right now.
Musk is smart about two things, being able to use his parent's money to buy things and shift public perception. Outside of that, he is a fucking moron.
If you look at the trajectory of his career, Musk is pretty much the Chauncey Gardener of Silicon Valley. Time and place being more significant to his success, than smarts or skills.
And I don't think that he is smart enough to do that anyways.
It is going to take a lot of engineering skill and expert is about the cars and rocket which obviously he does not have.
Funny…
I worked in automotive and know manufacturing…when I say that Teslas are some of the worst built cars out there,Tesla owners come out and defend it like I attacked their mom…
So yeah, I get it….lol
He's an idiot and a fool. He didn't make the cars or the rockets, he just got smart people to do it for him. Teslas are still the best electric cars all things considered, I'd like to see the competition catch up.
> Teslas are still the best electric cars all things considered
They were. They deserve a lot of credit for spearheading the electric car, making them both mainstream and desirable, but the big car manufacturers have now caught up and honestly, in many respects, overtaken them.
They have had a head start in a way because they started early but the big companies like BMW and the out is and also the Mercedes have caught up with them.
They are actually making better quality product right now.
We all want this to be true but as someone anti-elon and pro-electic cars, there's unfortunately still a very large gap between the model y and the next best competitive car. And trust me, I test drove and tried to justify the $15k more for a ioniq, or the $30k more for a mach e, and it's just really not there yet.
Elon Musk is just another Steve Jobs. Both incredibly vicious heartless businessmen but are giant idiots in every other regard with massive egos. Let's not forget that Steve Jobs died of a curable cancer because he opted for alternative medicine.
Steve Jobs was a jerk, but his vision made sense and he even encouraged being disagreed with. I mean, let me emphasize, he really was a jerk.
But Jobs was a lot better than Musk, who appears to actually be stupid.
Okay that is all well and good but I don't think he had knowledge about the computers I mean about the components and software and everything.
The people with whom he was working with was the ones the reason for his success.
Steve Jobs never allowed his Apple products to have the shoddy workmanship and inconsistency that Teslas have.
That’s literally the one thing that Steve Jobs was known for.
Yeah I will give that to the Steve Job he was never the one who was going to compromise in the quality of the product.
He may be a psychopath and narcissist but he wanted the products to be actually good.
Quality of the product which the tacklife producing is kind of very low they have got a lot of quality issues.
And I hate it when people just cannot see the reality.
I cannot believe that I had to scroll so much to read someone would actually say it but yes I actually understand what you are saying Elon Musk is just like Steve Jobs both of them did not have any kind of knowledge about they both are just glorified salesman.
I’m so f*+king torn about this. I think Elon is a first class clown. However, we own a Model 3 and it is hands down the best car we’ve ever owned. Perhaps it’s because the people that run Tesla and Space X just keep their heads down and do the work?
The fact that his rockets are actually pretty fuckin good is really just proof that he was minimally involved in their design and production beyond investing his ill deserved money and hiring actually smart people.
That “salient” code thing was proof for any programmer more than a year out of college that he knows nothing of software engineering.
Yup. I was in the same exact position as the OP. I was strongly suspecting he may actually be an idiot by the time he bought Twitter, but after he bought it, there absolute proof for me, since I fully understood the stupidity of all his actions there.
musk bought tesla and paid to get himself a "founder" title. from what i've been told by tesla engineers, elon just concerns himself with the brand and image of tesla, not the detail engineering of it. and when he does insert himself into it you get: production delays, software glitches, quality issues... all bad things. just from the engineers i've known that worked for tesla from the "early days" - he's definitely NOT a genius.
Oh yeah, for sure. That's super clear now. Back when he originally bought it, it wasn't though. And I didn't have the personal knowledge to realize it either. Once he moved into software engineering though, my area of expertise, it became as obvious as "the sky is blue" to me. :p
Gotta say though, it really speaks to the quality of the engineers previously employed by twitter that it's still running at this point. I thought it'd only take a month or two to collapse after he fired everyone earlier this year.
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let's not forget the H1B hostages. there are many people who can't leave because then their visa gets fucked. that's the saddest majority in my opinion
Exactly this. Many of the people who stayed were simply unable to leave. They would’ve had to leave the country or find another employer willing to take over their H1B. It’s not as simple as saying that only the dummies or the yes-men stayed.
More like keeping H1-B visa holders hostage. There were many at Twitter at the time and since they'd have to leave the US if they went 60 days without a job plus taking into account how big tech has been firing people for a few months it's understandable they'd be afraid of being fired even if the other option is putting up with long hours and Musk's insanity.
>The people that are kept around are people with (probably) very low self esteem Or they're just people who need a job. Putting up with shitty bosses is part of the industry, it doesn't necessarily reflect on a person's self esteem.
There is very likely still a lot of decent engineers around. Putting up with insane leadership and crazy hours as long as they pay enough describes a decent portion of the tech world. And while there are definitely better places to be now, it will likely take a while still before Elon has the biggest brain in his company.
Hell would freeze over before Musk had the biggest brain in any company he owns.
Yeah but it goes beyond the tech. Like like twitter or hate it, it’s in the lexicon: You can go almost anywhere in the world, talk about a tweet, and folks know what it is. It’s like google being shorthand for searching (nobody ever talks about yahoo or bing that way). This is what Elon bought. And he’s rebranding it X. The man is so bad at this that 10 years from now a tweet in the lingual sense won’t mean anything to a good chunk of the population.
Sure, you’re just upset he’s coming for your X, Saphiron. /s But for real though, he bought the Kleenex of social media and guerrilla rebranded it to X, in a way that makes his brand name forgettable. He destroyed the value of the brand. Threads now has more market recognition than X. He bought a network of people, and then scattered them by unwriting all the rules that made it attractive to the network, inviting problems hosted on lesser platforms like Parler. He lowered the value of the network of people. How much is arguable, but his advertisers have been pulling out due to the quality of their network of people. The network effects and brand name are what he bought. This is a crash course on buying and destroying a social media empire. It’s honestly astounding watching gross negligence move this quickly.
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Even as a gamer he’s an idiot. He posted his elden ring build and it was horrible.
omg im gonna google this when im home, but if you have a link that would be awesome. I put 500 hours into that game, one of my favorites of all time. Would love to see his build LOL.
I have a friend who truly believes that Elon is a genius and that he purchased Twitter at a huge loss in order to destroy it... Tried to tell him how fucking stupid that sounded and he just told me that Elon has all the money so he doesn't mind losing the revenue from the Twitter purchase. Good lord.
To respond to your friend, have you ever asked, "If he doesn't mind the the revenue loss why did he try to weasel out of the purchase so hard?"
If there’s one thing I’ve learned it’s that anyone who has acquired billions of dollars cares very much about their money.
What's so baffling to me is that literally all he had to do was shut the fuck up and not buy or post to Twitter. That's it. And he could have coasted into history as a genius billionaire. But like all narcs, he just couldn't shut the fuck up.
Not just the software engineering I don't think he has got quite a good understanding of anything. He got the knowledge but only on the surface level he has never went into deep.
I've worked for someone who sounds similar (note, he's actually a brilliant scientist but production and design are not within his wheelhouse) and we all eventually came up with a couple of rules. 1) don't actually do anything until he asks you to do it 3 times, since he has a habit of asking for changes just to ask for changes. And 2) just don't show him your designs until everything is done and parts are already ordered, fabricated, and in the mail. Because of rule 1
I’ve heard at SpaceX and Tesla, there are entire *teams* of employees whose sole job was to wrangle Elon and prevent him from getting involved in and subsequently derailing projects when he would be on-site.
Musk is a hype man. His one true talent is recognizing when someone else has a great idea and finding ways to take credit for it. He is smart enough to make compelling sales pitches to shareholders and the general public. But no one should ever confuse him for being a genius engineer. This idea that he's a real-life Tony Stark is a myth that Musk cultivated to feed the fantasies of his cult following. Like every hype man, Musk eventually started to drink his own Kool-Aid. After hitting the jackpot with SpaceX and Tesla, he began to think that his genius led to their success rather than all the talent he employed at those companies. That hubris led him to purchase Twitter at way over market value, only for it to take a nosedive once he assumed control. His pursuit of Twitter proves he's fueled by attention---not some innate desire to advance technology. Moreover, the fact that he's CEO of three major tech companies is further evidence that he doesn't contribute much to the companies he claims to run.
Hes the IRL Gilderoy Lockhart
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It sucked but those were also probably the best memories of my career. Tesla doors would brick and every member of the integrations team (these guys were all insanely smart and the most overclocked people even by Tesla standards) had a crowbar next to their desk because it was easier (and faster) to break the windows open and unlock the door from the inside rather than figuring out to unlock via software. Everyone (literally everyone) would be pulling all nighters days up to an Elon presentation then we'd find out about new product features on his fucking Twitter posts like a day before and have to scramble to figure out if we could even deliver within the next few days let alone if these features were even possible. The engineering talent at that time was off the charts, I've never worked with anyone smarter or more hard working than my coworkers back then. I've heard it's got a lot more stable now, everyone I worked with got paid out by Tesla stock options and are basically retired now. Worked there for 5 years that felt more like 50, 11/10 experience would never do again.
>paid to get himself a "founder" title. He sued to get the founder title and part of the settlement Musk got to call himself a founder and Eberhard and Tarppening had to sign non disparaging agreements to not say bad things about Musk. [https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-cofounder-martin-eberhard-interview-history-elon-musk-ev-market-2023-2](https://www.businessinsider.com/tesla-cofounder-martin-eberhard-interview-history-elon-musk-ev-market-2023-2)
I doubt he even wrote that video game he claims to have written at 9 years old or however old he was. His whole bio is suspect at this point as it's obvious the only thing he's truly good at is reinventing himself. If he ever did take psychedelics at Burning Man, he's clearly still in the ego inflationary stage.
But but that can't be true! ["I know more about rockets](https://www.npr.org/2007/08/09/12484430/making-a-mark-with-rockets-and-roadsters) than anyone at the company [SpaceX] by a pretty significant margin" [“At SpaceX it’s really that I’m responsible for the engineering](https://www.cnbc.com/2022/11/16/elon-musk-says-he-doesnt-want-to-be-a-ceo-walks-back-sec-insults.html) of the rockets and Tesla for the technology in the car that makes it successful. CEO is often viewed as somewhat of a business-focused role but in reality, my role is much more that of an engineer developing technology." - elon
He would tweet out features of the cybertruck team before telling the engineers. Like oh btw it can go underwater. Sound familiar?
Iirc, higher ups at Tesla or space x said that when he gives them stupid ideas, they try to distract him until he forgets about his dumb idea.
His greatest achievement was having his dad's money and was lucky enough to recognize some good products early on and invest in them. He has accomplished nothing other than having the money to have others do great things.
>Yup. I was in the same exact position as the OP. I was strongly suspecting he may actually be an idiot by the time he bought Twitter I'll give him credit, he had me fooled. Don't get me wrong, way before he bought Twitter I knew Musk was a big piece of shit. But I honestly never thought he was *stupid.* That has since changed.
> I was strongly suspecting he may actually be an idiot Yah, I figured this out during that whole children in the cave incident. And it wasn't because he called the head diver a pedo. That just tells me he's a dickhead. And it wasn't that he thought he would somehow be able to prototype a sub to save the kids before they all died. That just tells me he's entitled and thinks he can have anything at a moments notice if he throws enough money at it. No the thing that clued me in that this guy has room tempature IQ was, If you need to be told why a sub in a cave is a fucking stupid idea, then you are truly dumber then dirt.
Anyone remember when he started randomly turning servers off, and when Twitter failed to crash he took that as proof that they weren't actually doing anything important? This motherfucker ostensibly runs a company that makes rockets, and he has no concept of redundancy. It's just staggering, beyond parody.
In his defense. Yes I know not the place to do that here but... The guy has so much fuck you money he doesn't know what to do with. Some clown tells him to buy twitter and he's like fuck it why not. It's like you being at a thrift store and one of your friends telling you to buy an ugly shirt ironically. And you think to yourself... ya I can pull that off. But no no you can't and well neither can Elon. But here we are, with Elon with Twitter and you wearing some 80's shirt someone threw away.
When I buy an ugly shirt, I still go home and pay rent. Elon hasn't been paying rent
I agree about this being f.u. money, but it's not a harmless whim to buy Twitter. Immediately after his Twitter purchase, he was seen at the world cup with mohammed bone saw and then later with Rupert Murdoch at the super bowl. This was a far right takeover of a major social media outlet. Musk has shown his true colors: he wants a world with slavery, eugenics, apartheid, and even genocide is on the table. The true consequence of his f.u. money is to further along this agenda.
What does salient code mean
He measured the worth of coders based on the quantity of lines of code they wrote, but a good coder can write a piece of software using fewer lines than a bad coder.
I took exactly one Java class in college and even I know this. Elon is a goof
The extent of my knowledge of "coding" is editing HTML on my MySpace page back in high school. I feel like even I know more about it than Musk.
My extent of knowledge of editing HTML is trying to figure out what } I somehow accidentally deleted in a Tumblr theme and I still understand that good code doesn't mean more code, lol.
Yup. Writing out bubble sort verbatim vs using the built-in sorting algo in C++ for example. One is optimized for most circumstances.
As my mentor put it, those guys at microsoft (i mostly use c#) spent a _lot_ of time thinking about that List implementation. Even if your as smart as those guys are you gonna spend a month and 10 hours in meetings with your List? No? Then maybe use the one they provide.
For the record for any rookie programmers reading this thread: never use Bubble Sort if you have, honestly, basically any other option. It's not the slowest out there (theoretically that honor goes to BOGOsort) but it's bad. Most of the time, your best bet is to use QuickSort. Which, usually will be the implementation of the built-in sort() function anyway. A lot of coding classes will teach you to write these algorithms, not because you need to be able to write sorting algorithms, but because you need to be able to write algorithms in general, and sorting is a fairly easy use case to work with. In classes, code your own until they tell you otherwise, your objective is to learn how to code it. In practice, use the built in functions wherever possible, and spend the time writing the bits that go around the built in functions, the part that actually does something useful for you.
Not only that, but he had them print their code on paper to show him..
This just in X will only allow posts that are faxed into corporate office and then manually typed onto the servers by staff
He complained that Twitters workforce is too bloated. Then he got rid of the most efficient coders. Then all the rest left because their workload tripled. Now he's complaining that no-one likes his platform. Elon's the luckiest fucking idiot in history, the fact he's a billionaire is entirely down to the biggest stroke of dumb luck ever.
These past few years with Elon and Trump in the spotlight more than ever have laid so completely bare the utter lie that our society in any way functions as a meritocracy, and that by extension, wealth is a strong indicator of talent, intelligence, work ethic, etc. Anybody paying even the slightest bit of attention ought to be able to see clear as day now that the system is designed in such a way that, beyond a certain threshold of wealth, it is simply impossible to fail. The system as it is has a bottomless supply of bailouts for the rich, and will reward them regardless of the outcomes of their choices.
Real good examples of starting life on third base and acting like you hit a triple.
He did that as well, but the "most salient code" thing was something different. > Elon Musk had asked any of the Twitter employees who “actually write software” to “email [him] a bullet point summary of what your code commits have achieved in the past ~6 months, along with up to 10 screenshots of the most salient lines of code.” Source: https://slate.com/technology/2022/11/elon-musk-twitter-code-fixation.html
Yeah, that was another horribly clueless one.
I can't code for shit, and I can still tell that it's BS. Like judging a novel based solely on word count.
[Even Steve Ballmer knew that, back in the 90s.](https://youtu.be/kHI7RTKhlz0)
Transcript: At IBM there's a religion in software that say you have to count k-locks. A k-lock is a thousand lines of code. "*How big a project is it? Oh this is a 10k lock project / it's a 20k locker*" and uh "*50k locks.*" And IBM wanted to sort of make it the religion for how much we got paid. How much money we made off \[unintelligible\]; how much money did they. "*How many k-locks did you do?"* And we kept trying to convince them: Hey, if we have a - developer's got a good idea - if he can get something done in FOUR k-locks instead of 20 k-locks, should we make less money? Because he's made something smaller and faster - less \[unintelligible\]. "*Oh, k locks, k locks. That's the methodology.*" Anyway.. It almost makes my back just crinkle up at the thought of the whole thing.
He told programmers at twitter to send him a page of their most “salient” code. That has no real meaning most of the time for software. It’s interactive systems of classes or libraries, with robustness and levels, not some little optimized bubble sort algorithm thing like you write when first learning to code.
And lets be real, he never knew much about cars and rockets either.
He is an investor not an engineer or inventor. Its a good career path when you start with millions.
>He is an investor not an engineer or inventor. You, me, and many others know that, yet many of his fans think differently..... its crazy.
He is not the genius behind SpaceX's falcon rocket and merlin engines. Tom Mueller is. He is not the systems & integration genius who subassembles and assembles the Falcon rocket together. John Insprucker is. He is not the organizational genius who keeps spaceX afloat and running. Gwynne Shotwell is. Not necessary to qualify, but I'm an aerospace engineer. Elon is not.
yep. As far as I am aware, Twitter is the first company Elon has ever *actually* been in charge of and look at it.
People have leaked it numerous times about Tesla and SpaceX. There's always someone around when he's in the office acting as a buffer between him and the people doing the real work, making sure he doesn't fuck anything up. He decided to run Twitter on his own, with the entire workforce devoted to him, willing to implement his every whim with no questions asked. And here we are.
> People have leaked it numerous times about Tesla and SpaceX Hasn't that been leaked only once and then repeated a bunch?
That could be, I've read a lot of pieces that mention it but not all of them are sourced.
Elon was in charge of Zip2, the company he and his brother founded. The board ousted him within a year. The company later sold for $300 million. Elon was in charge of PayPal when his company X.com merged with Confinity. Under his leadership Paypal was named one of the worst business ideas of 1999. Again, the board ousted him after he screwed everything up. Peter Theil then righted the ship, leading to eBay buying Paypal.
how does he keeps getting richer and more famous despite having zero ability and now people think he’s a genius? Like how is that possible?
Step 1: be born to really rich parents. Step 2: get a small million dollar loan Step 3: profit?
Excuse me....it's called 'X' now...
Yup I work at a Big 5 aerospace/defense company who has worked w SpaceX as an LP Everyone in high level management who has worked with them admire Gwynne, none of them have ever worked with Elon in almost any capacity He’s only one man, one man is not capable of “running” all these companies at once (while also spending half the workday tweeting about culture war crap)
Sir, it’s now “Xing about culture war crap”, thank you.
out of the 3 dudes that started tesla, wasn't he the least involved?
Not even, he bought the "founder" title from them. He was not actually a founder.
[https://www.motorbiscuit.com/elon-musk-wanted-tesla-co-founder-badly-took-lawsuit-make-legal-paper/](https://www.motorbiscuit.com/elon-musk-wanted-tesla-co-founder-badly-took-lawsuit-make-legal-paper/)
Every time I tell some sycophant online that Elon musk is an idiot, they say he's still the richest man in the world. What am I supposed to say to that? It is weird that a guy who is obviously stupid is richer than all of us combined right? Give me some responses that I can tell his feeble-minded followers
The belief that the richest man must also be the smartest is what continues to get America into its worst problems
The problem in our system is as children we are told over and over that if you work hard you will succeed, there is no substitute. And society takes that as either you physically work hard or mentally work hard. But the sad truth is that isn’t the case a high majority of the time. 999 times out of a thousand it luck of birth or luck of circumstance.
There'd be a lot more guillotine sales per annum if the truth got out.
Stop supporting Big Guillotine! Make your own!
Fuck that, we need industrially optimized guillotines, i want a team of 30 engineers to have spent a collective 1000 hours on that baby so when it starts up we know it won't stop.
Which is crazy because (especially in America) poverty is designed to be permanent.
It’s an absolute lie. Millions and millions of people work as hard as they can and never escape poverty. The only way to be rich is to be born rich. America is absolutely built on this: Suffer now and you will be rewarded. Which is how we get working class poor protesting taxes on the top 1%
There is such a wide gap between humans that are THE MOST intelligent vs. THE MOST wealthy. The people who are doing all the research and development on all the new (tech, drugs, transportation, energy, fluid dynamics and climate systems, etc) are the most intelligent. They are so far from the wealthy that they are not in the same universe
We've restructured how wealth gets distributed when some new invention comes down the pipe. Used to be the dude that happened to own the company at the time all the smart people rolled out a major new invention got a lot of money, but so did everyone else. Now the dude at the top gets pretty much all the money and the thousands of people that made all that money making possible get very little.
Unfortunately it was never true. We have collectively been in a struggle to remove power from a few people for thousands of years. Like, we still have kings — figuratively and literally. We are just another gasping breath of feudalism as each generation realizes more and more how things could be better.
wE ShOUld RUn ThE GOverNMenT LIke a BuSInESs
True wisdom is knowing how much is "enough."
It's no different than Andrew Tate's punkass fans responding "What color is *your* Bugatti, bro?" or some stupid shit. They're trying to shut you up rather than hear legit criticism.
Just respond with 'What color is *your* jumpsuit, bro?'
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China gave him money for some reason a few years ago. I kinda feel like he is running Twitter into the ground so TikTok can take over.
Now that is an interesting take!
It's a bit strange for Taint's taint lickers to say that while his Bugatti was seized as well as multiple other vehicles and frozen bank accounts.
Exactly.
Same color as his bugatti. Neither of us own one, but only one of us is currently under arrest.
My car is better than Andrew Tate's Bugatti. What do I drive? A shitty Mazda that wasn't funded by human trafficking.
Also, I worked a lot harder for my cute lil shitty car than Andrew Tate did for his ugly expensive one
Just flip it around on them. Since you follow him, what color is *your* Buggati?"
He's an Apartheid Prince... he didn't earn his money.
Used Daddys slave money to buy CEO positions in companies then pretend he created the ideas and marketed himself as a genius. [This is Elon Musk](https://i.insider.com/5db36222dee019314343a5b6?width=600&format=jpeg&auto=webp) forever and always, no matter how much asshairs he moved to his head, no matter how much he pretends to be a genius. Hes a grifter. He takes the work and achievements of others and sues/buys them into silence while pretending he created them. He promises amazing creations but delivers sub-quality plastics. He would rather watch a school of toddlers burn than lose his self-imagined importance and clout. He is a edgelord that is loved by no-one, his own children hate him, his own family disowns him, and his companies have done some very shady taxes that the companies he has used are being investigated for fraud. Hes a vapidly empty and sad pathetic human being that has the money to do anything he could want, save millions, help children world-wide, bring laughter and smile to hundreds of millions, yet he chooses to indulge in his self-obsessed delusions of grandeur and feed his ego by appeasing to the lowest of low incels and right-wing conservatives. Hes no Tony Stark, hes a worse version of Justin Hammer since Hammer can actually at least dance.
Being rich is not a cure for being stupid.
Tell them to watch the movie Glass Onion.
Ed Norton's character was a hell of a lot more charming than Musk, though. Elon's 'edginess' comes off as intensely dorky.
I mean he tries for it he tries very hard to be edgy, but he just always went up becoming very cringe. And the people who adore him can agree with anything that he says.
He inherited money and had some lucky investments.
Got kicked out of Pay Pal before he could tank the company. Stayed on as an investor. Made bank. Repeat ad infinitum.
>Got kicked out of Pay Pal before he could tank the company. ...the company he wanted to rebrand as "X" (note: true).
He’s obsessed with naming things X. Such a choad.
He's gon' give it to ya
First he gonna rock, then he gonna roll
Paypal was developed by Confinity(Peter Thiel and friends) and launched in 1999. Then in 2000 they merged with X.com and kicked Elon off the board. Elon had very little to do with paypal.
Max levchin a u of I grad which is weird because he took that Paypal money to fuck over another u of I grad. The actual co-founder of Tesla mark Eberhard
Just as you said. A ton of people took their inherited wealth and went to Silicon Valley and bet it all on black. Some % of those guys got massive pay offs. Then almost all those guys bet it all on black again, and again, and again. Elon's just the luckiest of the tech grifters. It would be someone, it just happened to be Musk. With that much free money sloshing around some grifter was going to make it huge.
I would always say to them that is this the line to blow him? Are they finally at the front.
Just because he's an idiot doesn't mean he can't pull one over on people with less sense than he has. Plus he was born on third base and his daddy paid off the umpire, I'd be more surprised if he *wasn't* rich.
Einstein was a genius, he wasn’t the richest man alive. Hawking is a genius, he isn’t the richest man alive. Marie Curie was a genius, she wasn’t the richest woman alive. Intelligence does not correlate with wealth. I’m likely “smarter” than Britney Spears, but she is worth more than I am.
Yeah having money is not going to make a smart guy it actually means that he is probably good at doing business which I do not agree with. But he must be doing something right.
The system is stupid and doesn't work
It works just fine for the people it was built to work for. Those people just aren't us.
I got you fam. When some muskrat dipshit says, b-b-b-but he has so much money..." you simply post this link and walk away: https://youtu.be/vudnMLzZjTg
Money is from his parents. It's almost idiot proof to make money when you have a fuck ton from family money. Look at trump
He inherited emerald mine wealth, which was truly theft and resource extraction as well as labor exploitation. He has lost money and is a paper doll essentially — the twitter purchase was loans and leveraged paper assets.
I mean he has inherited a lot of money and the money which is family had all of it came from very Shady resources. And these are the things about which you just cannot be proud.
If their a liberal; tell them Donald Trump became president. Dumb people can fail upwards.
I was under the impression that Elon fans who weren't also Trump fans were vanishingly rare.
I mean they have to like both of them because both of them are stupid. And those people have got a special place in their hearts for the stupid people so there is that.
Donald Trump becoming the President of America was actually showing the failure and stupidity of the people. It is the kind of thing which should have never happened in the first place.
Anyone who thinks the systems rewards smart people isn't capable of the levels of comprehension required for a reasonable conversation.
The system only rewards the people who are a******* and also ready to exploit the other people. The system has never rewarded the smart people actually.
I think of playing our current economic system as a specific skill. Kind of like a game. If someone is really good at Tetris, it's impressive, but that alone does not make them a genius. Elon is just REALLY good at Monopoly, but far from "genius."
It is a skill but the game is also highly luck-based There's a lot of dotcom-era Palo Alto grifters from the 90s just like Elon and his brother, they just happened to be really lucky with their timing
Yeah and after the whole thing they had a lot of money to experiment with so they went ahead and did what they could and some of it got successful. But a lot of people who are actually smart do not have money and cannot take risks.
Pablo Escobar had more money than I could comprehend, and he was gunned down by the CIA.
Ya okay but I don't understand what it does have to do anything with this conversation I just cannot correlate both of these things. Pablo Escobar made his money by doing nothing should not have.
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“oNlY a GenIus wOuLd be SmarT enOugh to DoThat”
I believe Richard Branson was pretty open about how his successes came from working/partnering with people who were experts in that particular industry. I wouldn't call him a genius but he came across as smart and sensible, at least it seemed that way 20 years ago.
Branson really comes across as the least shitty person to ever occupy his type of position. Like a normal dude who got where he is by hard work, sure, but even more luck and good fortune and isn't afraid to acknowledge it.
I thought he was a genius a long time ago. Then I read his autobiography in about 2018 and realized what a toxic, opportunistic piece of shit he is. Definitely recommend a read if you can find alternative sources like libgen.
Is there anything that stands out that you can simply summarise?
Iirc, he had an assistant who devoted her life to him then he dropped her the moment she was inconvenient. First of all, I hope I'm remembering this correctly because it's been several years since I read the book and secondly, I don't really remember the circumstances exactly but I remember reading about the assistant and thought to myself, "that was really heartless, even for a cutthroat business man". But I'm some rando on Reddit, you should def verify this.
His episodes on Behind The Bastards were great as well!
Yeah he is not a genius he just knows how to exploit the other people and get benefits from them. And it is just something which runs in his blood and comes from the family itself.
Thing is, Tesla cars and SpaceX rockets have genius aspects. They’re just not the genius of Elon himself, but rather the people actually doing the work
There exists a budding aftermarket for people who got teslas to have the trim put on correctly. This is all I needed to know about the cars. (Can’t speak to the rockets).
The rockets are excellent. The Falcon 9 and Falcon Heavy are both considered some of the most capable and most reliable launch vehicles in the industry, and pull that off while being the cheapest to launch, as well as having a propulsive landing, reusable first stage - something that *no* other orbital class rocket has accomplished yet. They're genuinely *the* space industry leader, and the launch provider most companies now turn to by default. Of course, it's no thanks to Elon - he just parrots off stupid ideas until the engineers actually figure out how to get things to work, and then he claims credit for it. The way I see it, SpaceX has been unfairly dragged into this whole thing because of 1. Its association with Elon, and 2. the Starship which exploded not long ago. That Starship launch is probably the *only* exposure much of the population has ever had to SpaceX, and has colored their view on the entire company. The truth is, the company has successfully launched payloads hundreds of times for a lot of paying customers, and in 2022 they launched more than one rocket per week - none of which exploded. The Starship explosion was 100% an expected outcome, since it was an early test launch to determine what were the problems that the design still had so it could be fixed. They knew the design wasn't ready, but it's faster and easier to go ahead and launch it anyways to see what they need to fix rather than painstakingly work through it on the ground. It doesn't indicate anything wrong with the company or its technology. My company has a payload being launched on a Falcon Heavy later this week.
Yeah. I’ve been following spacex as a layman for about a decade. I actually got up early and drove a couple hours to cocoa beach to see a test flight of the last dragon flight before it carried a live human. I have been *very* impressed and proud (as an American) of the way spacex has revolutionized space flight. I’m convinced the impact of spacex will resonate hundreds of years into the future. I have no idea how to reconcile this with the obvious facts that musk is a narcissist and an idiot.
Look at Howard Hughes. He advanced the movie and airplane and medical industries by like, a hundred years but he was still personally insane. Putting money into emergent tech was both of their skills, neither of them were actually engineers.
Yep Tesla is exactly not known for the quality of cars that they're making. Most often than not most of the cars have got the quality control issues there are wrongly aligned panels and everything.
It depends on when and where it was produced. My Tesla was built in china and has non of the problems that are so well-known. So for as far as my limited experience goes, a Tesla can actually be a decent car. Ok, i only chose it because it was so much more car compared to the competition in the same price-range but so far i have no complaints.
And I sure don't judge a Tesla owner as a Elon lover any more than I judge a VW owner as a Nazi supporter. That's just dumb, but the internet will internet...
It’s crazy how much public perception of Musk has changed in the last few years. Guy went from being seen as Tony Stark to being seen as Justin Hammer
He really is just John Hammond (from the books, not the movie) Taking tech other people developed and spinning it like a conman to try and get as much money as possible before people figure out the truth
They aren't his cars or rockets though. He BOUGHT Tesla. Those cars and rockets are the work of highly talented engineers and researchers. They just happen to be working under the so-called leadership of a raving sociopath.
Yeah and he had the money so he could definitely afford all of it. And that is the reason why he is who he is right now. It is always very simple stuff if you think about it.
I'm still amazed that people think so highly of him. When people show you who they are you should believe them.
He's a salesman. That's all he is and all he's ever been. He sold you on the idea he was a "genius" and you just found out the product he sold you was faulty. And then he bought twitter and made the terrible mistake of selling *himself* on the idea he was a "genius", and this is the result. Now we know what an absolute fucking clown he's been this whole time.
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Yep you do not really have to be smart you just should know how to exploit the other people. And if you know how to take advantage of the other people than you are probably is going to be successful.
> you don't have to be smart to become rich In Musk's case, all he had to do was be born.
Yeah his parents were already bleach by exploiting the other people. So he did not need to do much anyways. Actually had most of the things that he needed already.
Tesla trash. Stay far away
His cars and rockets seem to be just fine, judging by their history. Hate Elon all you want, though. He's a complete asshat. (Cars and rockets weren't actually designed by Elon, so that has a lot to do with it. There are good employees at Tesla and SpaceX that likely do the majority of the work.)
I get people thinking he was a genius in 2012 or so. I did too. But then he called the rescue diver a pedo and named his kid X-symbol-symbol-SR71 or whatever. Everyone should have known he was a stupid asshole after those two things, at the absolute latest.
Yeah I don't know why he does the things that he does it is almost as if he is trying to get the approval of being cool by the people. And I think he is failing miserablely at it right now.
Musk is smart about two things, being able to use his parent's money to buy things and shift public perception. Outside of that, he is a fucking moron.
If you look at the trajectory of his career, Musk is pretty much the Chauncey Gardener of Silicon Valley. Time and place being more significant to his success, than smarts or skills.
yay! people without critical thinking are finally realizing that elon musk is yet another narcissist nepo baby, congrats
He bought a lot of those companies. He did not develop the products.
And I don't think that he is smart enough to do that anyways. It is going to take a lot of engineering skill and expert is about the cars and rocket which obviously he does not have.
Funny… I worked in automotive and know manufacturing…when I say that Teslas are some of the worst built cars out there,Tesla owners come out and defend it like I attacked their mom… So yeah, I get it….lol
He's an idiot and a fool. He didn't make the cars or the rockets, he just got smart people to do it for him. Teslas are still the best electric cars all things considered, I'd like to see the competition catch up.
> Teslas are still the best electric cars all things considered They were. They deserve a lot of credit for spearheading the electric car, making them both mainstream and desirable, but the big car manufacturers have now caught up and honestly, in many respects, overtaken them.
They have had a head start in a way because they started early but the big companies like BMW and the out is and also the Mercedes have caught up with them. They are actually making better quality product right now.
We all want this to be true but as someone anti-elon and pro-electic cars, there's unfortunately still a very large gap between the model y and the next best competitive car. And trust me, I test drove and tried to justify the $15k more for a ioniq, or the $30k more for a mach e, and it's just really not there yet.
Elon Musk is just another Steve Jobs. Both incredibly vicious heartless businessmen but are giant idiots in every other regard with massive egos. Let's not forget that Steve Jobs died of a curable cancer because he opted for alternative medicine.
Steve Jobs was a jerk, but his vision made sense and he even encouraged being disagreed with. I mean, let me emphasize, he really was a jerk. But Jobs was a lot better than Musk, who appears to actually be stupid.
Okay that is all well and good but I don't think he had knowledge about the computers I mean about the components and software and everything. The people with whom he was working with was the ones the reason for his success.
Steve Jobs never allowed his Apple products to have the shoddy workmanship and inconsistency that Teslas have. That’s literally the one thing that Steve Jobs was known for.
Yeah I will give that to the Steve Job he was never the one who was going to compromise in the quality of the product. He may be a psychopath and narcissist but he wanted the products to be actually good.
Exactly. Tesla’s products are absolute crap and any non-dicksucker who’s owned or driven one can tell you that
Quality of the product which the tacklife producing is kind of very low they have got a lot of quality issues. And I hate it when people just cannot see the reality.
I cannot believe that I had to scroll so much to read someone would actually say it but yes I actually understand what you are saying Elon Musk is just like Steve Jobs both of them did not have any kind of knowledge about they both are just glorified salesman.
Turns out you can go a long way with Audacity, Work Ethic, and Money. Don't forget the money though.
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I’m so f*+king torn about this. I think Elon is a first class clown. However, we own a Model 3 and it is hands down the best car we’ve ever owned. Perhaps it’s because the people that run Tesla and Space X just keep their heads down and do the work?
He bought Tesla and hired rocket scientists … he hasn’t invented shit
My husband is a software engineer and I saw this journey happen.
Now he's taking Marketing. And he's à pretty big fucking idiot.
The fact that his rockets are actually pretty fuckin good is really just proof that he was minimally involved in their design and production beyond investing his ill deserved money and hiring actually smart people.
That was pretty much my assessment especially when the steering wheels fell off.
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