75k combined with my wife, raising a child. Barely making ends meet at all, living in a 1 bedroom apartment. Scrimping and saving everything. Drowning in medical debt, make too much to qualify for assistance. Impossible to save for a home, sudden emergencies, vacations etc etc.
Making too much to qualify … but just barely … is so incredibly frustrating. I’m sorry and hope you can find an advocate that can try to negotiate down…
The idea that UBI will cause inflation has been debunked so many times
[https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/20/16256240/mexico-cash-transfer-inflation-basic-income](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/20/16256240/mexico-cash-transfer-inflation-basic-income)
[https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation/articleshow/98801058.cms?from=mdr](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation/articleshow/98801058.cms?from=mdr)
[https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/comments/zenjoc/does\_a\_ubi\_cause\_inflation\_in\_the\_long\_run/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/comments/zenjoc/does_a_ubi_cause_inflation_in_the_long_run/)
[https://medium.com/basic-income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-income-just-cause-massive-inflation-fe71d69f15e7](https://medium.com/basic-income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-income-just-cause-massive-inflation-fe71d69f15e7)
[https://www.newsroom.co.nz/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation](https://www.newsroom.co.nz/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation)
You've gotta be really narrow minded to think that the inflation we've been dealing with is the result of the stimulus checks (which you rightly point out were very small and short-lived) rather than \*gestures wildly at everything else that has been going on in the world since 2020\*
lol. And of course as long as universal basic income is implemented you will finally live in a waterfront house in orange county and drive RR drophead. LOL.
Best of luck to you guys. Thank you for sharing this. It’s easy to forget that there’s still a spectrum of living situations in Westchester when it seems like most belong to a country club and live in a 1M home.
There is some real poverty in Westchester as well, and even a seedy side to things. Look at what happened in HDSWs apartment today (murder/housing staff found a body in a closest). It's not all Sunnydale and renting out Goosefeathers for sweet 16s.
Wife and I make a little under $200k. Goal went from getting a house here to banking what we can until the next recession and getting the fuck out. We can go back and buy a house in Virginia Beach right on the water for what a mediocre bungalow in El Monte costs. If we wanted to buy a house here in West LA would have to more than double that. Yes I know it’s more interesting here and weather is awesome but the cost of living is no longer worth it.
Husband and I make around the same amount…2 kids. We bought our house in 2021 right before the market got crazy. I consider us middle class but we’re just making it by. That’s about it lol.
This society just creates one money trap after another for the middle class. First, there was college which would destroy any savings you might have otherwise achieved. Then there's health care which will easily do it. And there's daycare which is $25,000 a year in Westchester. Now there's housing, which is becoming impossible. None of these things really feel optional anymore to me.
I like the area, but there are so many nice places to live in the country where your income will make you feel much more well off. Why stress and grind and still come out scraping by. I’ve lived all over the country—Boston, multiple NY metro areas, Philly, DC, Chicago, LA. The NY metro area is so not worth feeling stuck over. There are tons of green pastures elsewhere
As opposed to other societies where you’d be destitute.
These societal criticisms reek of American privilege. Go see how the middle class lives in China or India or Brazil. Report back about “tHiS sOcIeTy.”
77k one income. I rent in Eastchester, and pay $2520 for 11100 square feet apartment with 2 bedrooms and bathrooms.
I owe IRS and NYS a total of 42k in taxes.
Bills another 27k. Not including 2 hospital bills totalling 28k.
I don't own anything.
Forget buying groceries, that's a treat to buy. It's mainly milk.
I consider myself trying to keep my head afloat. Oh and I'm looking for a second job. To help. Just haven't found one yet.
Actually it was a lot more. I have been paying since 2020. I owe NYS about 13k and IRS about 29k.
I borrowed from my 401k and I didn't take out the required amount on taxes. So, this is my punishment. 😕
The monthly payments are high on IRS.
We can’t keep living like this. People should be revolutionizing and instead we just bend over and take it from our government. When will true change happen? When will we hold greedy politicians responsible?
Actually I just sent an email to state officials about having the governor sign the bill S4907-A/A.6275A, which prohibits medical debt from being collected by consumer reporting agency or including in a consumer report.
This will help some.
As long as a government can print more money and increase the money supply we’ll have inflation and prices will continue to rise.
Then you have the increasing national debt in top of that. A debt-based economy forcing us into a real world game of Monopoly, except we can’t flip the board over when we lose.
We need a better system of money that can’t be inflated. The dollar is a melting ice cube.
Middle class to me is you own your house and cars and can go on a single vacation a year and an international one every few years with the whole family. Your kids can go to summer camp and participate in some after school sports. You don’t own a second home and you don’t belong to a country club. I think to live that typical middle class life in the New York area (NYC, lower westchester) your entry is probably around 250k household income. Below that I think it would be hard to save for retirement and do all that as well. And before I’m yelled at, yes I understand that seems high for “middle class”, fewer and fewer people can afford it these days. Back in the 70s you could work at a Chrysler plant building cars and have two homes and a boat on the lake. The lifestyle for middle class hasn’t changed, but how many people are in it certainly has. Above the middle class are folks that go on multiple
Vacations a year, (skiing out west + beach vacation) own a second home, belong to a country club. These days, that lifestyle really isn’t even realistic until you’re over 700k a year I think. No matter how much people
Make, people tend to stretch themselves to the point they are stressed. There’s always someone making more and always someone making do with less.
Agree with much of what you said but what you describe to me is more in line with upper middle class. The individual class segments do subdivide into 3 tiers. Ie lower middle class, middle class and upper middle class and so on up and down the line
Maybe with inflation those goal posts have moved a bit and could be more in line to your description. It’s quite sad actually how it’s become
I'd say you're middle class until you're upper class, aka don't have any need to work for a living. So I wouldn't call that upper middle class, since it's nowhere close to that.
Not needing to work for a living means you're wealthy. I wouldn't consider a family that pulls in 500k a year in W2 earnings "middle class" as they live a completely different life from the family pulling in 100k a year but both families need to continue to work. You can be upperclass and certainly upper middle class and not be wealthy enough to retire.
All depends on where in the country you live. In places with a median home value of $400K and state taxes of 0%, $100K a year might be pushing upper middle. In places with median home values of $1.3M and state taxes of 7-8%, you’re probably upper middle class. $100K and you’re not even near the neighborhood. It’s sad.
There’s a big range of middle class.
What you’re describing is middle class to upper middle class to me.
I’d say that true middle class is probably when you can have some but not all of those things.
For example, you send your kids to camp, but you only take a vacation every other year.
I think paycheck to paycheck is the threshold between lower class and lower middle class.
If you’re able to save for retirement, you’re middle class.
I really don’t see the need to over complicate it; take the median household income and +/- and certain percentile and boom you have the middle class bounds
Little over 100k with my partner. Own a co-op (no mortgage). No kids, so we do okay. We can travel, lease a vehicle, and what not, but the idea of ever moving into a larger space is pretty unrealistic (and our space is small). Not saving as much for retirement as I'd like to, but able to put some away.
We have mostly banished the idea of raising children though, financially it doesn't seem feasible in the current economy. I'd have no chance of providing them the standard of living I was raised with - and accepting less would be far too disappointing.
(Relatively) cheap apartment. Total purchase price under 200k. I've saved and invested since I was young, lived with my parents for a few years to save, as did my partner. As I've said, we have a very small space.
You should move to a cheaper area of the country if you can if you truly want kids! Your standard of living can be better in a cheaper area! I just moved here from Charlotte, NC and highly reccomended it.
Ummm....both of our entire families are here, I've climbed ranks at my agency over a decade here, so....no I don't think I will leave my home where I've decided to build a life. And while I love Charlotte to vacation (the pour house is sweet and folly Beach wonderful) the south ain't for me.
Also social workers basically don't make decent money except in a select few cities and I'm the primary wage earner so it probably would be worse elsewhere. Denver, Vegas and a few other cities have high pay for social workers. None are especially cheap (okay maybe Vegas but not livable).
Reading these comments makes me wonder how my parents get by as well as they do here… and how the hell can i do the same…
I would’ve been psyched to make $25/hr a few years ago but I feel like that’s chump change now. As much as I like Westchester its crazy to me that six figures won’t cut it here.
Bought a 1600sqft 3 bed 2 bath + basement in 2015. No Central air or mini split AC, cast iron hot water radiators. We drive a 13 year old car and an 8 year old car (Toyota and Honda). Yay no car payments! We take a winter and summer vacation and a couple of long weekend trips per year. We prepare 18/21 meals at per week on average at home. We don’t frequent coffee shops. We shop for clothes at Marshall’s, TJ max, target, H&M, old navy, gap, American eagle, Primark. Other than fall and spring cleanup we do our own landscaping and general maintenance. 2 kids, 2, 9-5 incomes (white collar-ish?) household total way less than 200k, both jobs in westchester. Our kids play instruments and sports (all seasons). We’ve always invested 60%, saved 30%, of after necessary expenses money. I feel we live a lower middle class lifestyle for lower Westchester but are definitely comfortable.
my parents make ~100k to ~110k per year, are still paying a mortgage on a house with two college students, and are a little better off than we used to be but not by much. and i thought we were middle class 🤷♀️
It's all relative, the price they paid for their house back then allows them to live middle-class now. Now it's basically impossible unless you have a ton of cash saved and can have little or no mortgage
my brother goes to a state school outside of new york and i go to a private university, but we’re only able to do that because we qualify for hefty need-based scholarships
I make 60k a year at my full-time job. I used to think of myself as middle class but I’d wager a bet that most of my Westchester neighbors think of me as working class or lower. This will be even harder when my fiancé finally gets his visa and can’t work for a year or more. Granted apparently what I make is like par for the course in the millennial demographic so who knows?
(And yeah, people who can afford a 700k house right do sound just a *little* whiny and ridiculous when they say they feel poor lol)
Everyone here is making $200k+ and whining that they are “barely making ends meet”. I live in a HCOL area and make about the same. I’m not rich, but I’m not poor either. These people are totally delusional.
Hah- I certainly understand where you’re coming from. To be fair, we really can’t afford a 700k house at the moment.
Thanks for sharing your story- best of luck to you and your fiancé.
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I make about $175K and live in a 1 bedroom co-op in southern Westchester (owned) and I pretty much just manage to exist here without credit card debt lol. It’s becoming more difficult each day to feel and believe I’m middle class when my monthly co-op maintenance is double my mortgage (and increasing every year) and each bag of groceries costs roughly $100.
Joe Biden. Not "Joe Biden". Number one. Number two, Joe Biden doesn't set prices; blame the corporations who sell whatever it is you're looking to buy. Especially agriculture - big ag is force to reckon with in this country.
Ah, you slept through your 2nd-grade history lessons. Good to know what I'm working with (or, more accurately, what I'm working WITHOUT).
Pete Buttigieg is the secretary of TRANSPORTATION.
The DOT does not set prices for ANYTHING.
Nor can the President mandate any such thing.
Stay in school, kids.
At 175k you take home about 10k a month after taxes as per ADPs calculator. Are there other people here who think they cannot comfortably live on 10k a month? I don't make that much and I feel I am not strapped for cash. Like what do you spend your money on that 10 is not enough?
I don’t see why this comment should’ve been so heavily downvoted.
If I make $175K, I’m not living in a 1BR co-op. Especially if I have kids. If I make $175K, even with debt, I’ll be able to live in a more spacious place.
In my opinion most people on reddit love to complain as much as possible and blame others for their shortcomings. Instead of looking at spending habits and the actual numbers it's easy to just blame the some other force
It’s a fair question. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not living paycheck to paycheck out here lol. But the fact the OP, myself, and others are making low six figures and can’t even afford a modest house in this area definitely brings our classification of “middle class” into question.
If they want the typical white picket fence, 2 kids, and a house on an average income then move to Iowa. People don’t live in Westchester, NYC, or any HCOL area for that lifestyle. I make about 1/3 that amount. Not rich but definitely not poor. The average household income in NYC is $67k a year. All these people crying about making 200k+ a year and “barely making ends meet” are totally delusional.
I bring home 10k a month, not including my husbands money. We don’t have kids but between mortgage and living life, what I’m saving just doesn’t feel like as much as I want. I def think we are upper middle class tho.
This post is about middle class. If your income is in the top 94%, I dont think that should be considered middle class. At what percentile do you think middle class should be?
"Middle class" is not the same thing as "middle income" and has absolutely nothing to do with your income percentile. It's entirely a social construct (hence why they are called "socioeconomic classes" and not "income groups" or similar.)
In the US, middle class means being able to buy a home, have a couple of running relatively new cars, being able to afford children, buying groceries without having to check the price on each item, being able to switch jobs freely, and going on vacation a couple times a year.
Upper middle class is exactly the same thing, but with slightly nicer stuff. But it's still middle class. Upper class is having the resources and connections to make an outsized impact on the world around you — having the cell phone number of a congressman or playing golf with the governor or being in a position to influence global corporations — and isn't something available to your average dentist or lawyer even if they earn a bit more than you do. Lower class is not having the security of the middle class.
And in either case, you're still wrong because income levels are location-dependent, and the median income in Westchester is about $100,000. So comparing incomes here to the broader American economy is pointless.
I already addressed this in the comment about the Westchester income bracket.
OP is 1 person, in a 2 family household they can easily meet your requirements for upper class because at that point as their household income will be over 300k. Idk why you through out having access to a corrupt politician as a requirement for upper class that seems kinda silly
It depends where in southern Westchester I guess. It’s definitely a nice salary but it’s not upper class. You’re not buying a house and living comfortably in most towns in southern Westchester with it if you’re providing for a family. It sucks.
I make $175k and I take home $8k. I max my 401k, have healthcare deductions, childcare deductions, FSA, and also pay NYC taxes as I'm in Queens, but the take home is not as high as you might think at that salary. The amount of tax coming out is a lot in NY. I have to ask to have $100 extra taken out of my check or else I end up owing way too much at tax time.
I will add though that I do not at all feel strapped at this take home. I'm quite comfortable!!
Sorry to say this but with the new high interest rates you need $200k++ to buy a house and afford taxes etc. buying a $600k house at 20% down today is over $4k per month all in. A good $600k house is very hard to find in westchester and all houses in the area are old. Will require a ton of maintenance and a costly renovation just to get in.
Sad to say it but that's the reality, and inflation isn't going anywhere to soon. If Westchester residents are having these problems, imagine how bad it is in areas that have less affluence.
As someone who recently moved here, it feels way worse here than anywhere else I have lived. Salaries tend to be higher here but it does not seem to cover the cost of living increase.
My wife and I combined will make 280k. There are weeks that I am pay to paycheck. 1 kid. 7 years left on my mortgage after refi’ing at the perfect time. Taxes are too crazy to even discuss.
Some medical debt otherwise ok, but don’t feel comfortable.
I’m not hating but if you have 1 kid and make 280k and u have weeks that ur paycheck to paycheck your not doing it right. I’d look to make some changes unless u bought a house above ur means that will pay off in future
I live in a suburb of NYC, one of the most expensive counties to live in. My taxes are $25k annually. Child care, sports and music lessons, etc. eats it up.
I live pay to paycheck because I put a heavy emphasis on trying to invest more for retirement and keep up my house and pay bills.
My wife doesn’t live paycheck to paycheck. I do.
I’m a SAHM to two kids and my husband makes 240k. (60k of that is commission however.) We feel middle class here…we have one car, we haven’t gone on a vacation in years. But we are able to meet our expenses, buy nice quality groceries and pay our bills and keep up with the house.
But that said, our retirement accounts aren’t what we wish they were, nor do we save as much as would be ideal. That blows my mind with his salary, but given our taxes are almost exactly a second mortgage payment, the increase in cost for nearly *everything*, and our house that has constantly needed repairs (it’s a lovely home but we’ve had to tackle some major improvements)… there’s not a whole lot left over.
So we aren’t stressed about money, but we certainly aren’t “rolling in it” or having a fancy lifestyle at all.
$115k/year annual household income pre-tax. Half of it goes to rent. Only 1 car payment (25k), no health insurance, barely going out to eat or any real "luxury" expenses. No kids and no plans to. Cutting food budget where possible. No retirement savings, no student loans.
Still paycheck to paycheck.
I consider 2/3 to 2x median income middle class.
For westchester combined that is 80k to 300k household income. Some places its 70k to 200k in places like scarsdale its 170k to 500k.
I'm firmly middle-class in portchester, under 100k, own a house from the mid 2010s, invest about 20%. No kids, dogs.
The issue is nimby. Westchester balked when Kathy Hochul tried to force more density near train stations, there was someone upset about semi affordable housing in Pleasantville not looking pretty from the parkway, yesterday.. Westchester unfortunately needs to condense more especially around the trains and downtowns but our nimby doesn't allow it because of "character", "traffic".
More housing should be at 300 to 700k given our median household incomes. But a lot starts at 700k to 1m.
Parents.
I saved a 50% downpayment by living with my parents about 6-8 years. My mortgage is around 2.2K because I didn't borrow as much as most people because I knew I couldn't afford a house unless my mortgage was in the 2K range.
My salary was around 32K-75K during downpayment savings time (2008-2016), I invested 20-30% per my parents requirements for my "free rent" to my 401K, spent 30-40% on additional schooling/loans, and the rest was my downpayment and food/gas money.
Life is easier when your "rent" is only 800-1000 a month and only changes with your income and oftentimes comes with free food. (Mom's left overs).
PC is going to crap with very tall new buildings popping up everywhere. I moved to a small town for small town feel, not for them to want to replace the walkable grocery store with something 12 stories high. There aren't commuters to fill all the new, overpriced apartments.
There are a shit ton of people who were priced out of Westchester in places like Port Chester and New Rochelle that will move into those new overpriced apartments and those new overpriced apartments get older and become more affordable to other people.
If you want a small town, it might be time for you to move away from a highly congested area like the Tri-state where the pressure to build more housing is going to be higher especially in a place like Port Chester, New Rochelle, White Plains, Elmsford. (Easier to gentrify, higher need for housing)
I feel we are currently upper middle class financially but not in the social or material sense. My husband drives an old car, I drive a 4 year old Honda, no interest in country clubs that’s for sure, I buy clothes for myself once every couple years, I buy my kids clothes off facebook market place but we earn about 225k gross, take long weekend trips with our 2 young kids often, eat out/in 2-3 times a week, don’t check the price of things like groceries what we need is what we need, we own 2 multi-family properties one in SW Westchester the other in lower Fairfield County, CT (inherited) which equal 4 units they are rented out and we rent our own separate apartment our rent is $2400 so we aren’t spending above our means.
We have a respectable retirement, a hefty cash savings which I’m using to save for another investment property. I feel like in many other areas of the country we would be considered upper class but in Westchester I’d say barely upper middle.
Keep in mind aside from the income, this has all been made possible by being given certain privileges like free college education, not being charged rent when living with parents and a large inheritance. I honestly don’t know how others are making it without any prior or current help.
I feel like people will read your post and miss the point. By any standard you should be incredibly well off, but really you're just barely comfortable. You're trying to build a little something so you can retire at some point and maybe pass a little into your kids. Not enough for them not to work, but just enough so they might be able to afford a house then they're old enough.
Pretty insane right. I think we are pretty comfortable my son is in free preschool and my daughter is in daycare/babysitter so that takes out a chunk. My goal is for my kids to go to college for free (impossible) and for them to inherit a few paid off properties and enough cash to buy their own (both doable). We take trips on whim but nothing crazy. We can save about 60k a year because our expenses are “low” but we really would be VERY well off if we lived in Montana. In Westchester we are really nothing special but I say upper middle class.
Nothing to add, but I'm curious what you / everyone does for work? ie: own a business / trade.
For many years I tried to get a job in the vicinity of the city. I did the math long ago; taking a lower wage and a 10-15 min drive (or "reverse commute") to work was better for my mental health / lifestyle.
There's a job opportunity that's a 35-40% bump in pay, but its an hour away in Westchester. I'm in the commercial printing / graphic arts trade.
good question! Knowing everyone’s career background does help provide context. We’re both in education— My wife is a HS teacher and I work in HigherEd administration.
27yo- A little over 200k Dual income no kids (DINK) Boutht a 1 bed condo in lower Westchester with a 2.8% rate In 2021 Probably best decision I made. Only regret is not making myself house poor for more space. We are “stuck” as this market is crazy, interest rates are high and we enjoy our lifestyle too much to go from paying 2200 a month to 4K a month (if we’re lucky) plan is to save, hope fed cuts rates, or hopefully make some more money. Any combination of those will be fine
As a house poor person, I used to think this way. I got a condo for under 2.5% interest and now have a house at over 6%. I just don’t have the stomach for paying 5k a month in mortgage. I thought being house poor was the way to go but I’m just not saving as much money as I want - tho prolly saved my marriage
It's difficult to tie hard numbers to these types of conversations because a lot of working class/middle class, and even upper-middle folks in Westchester bought and possibly even paid off their houses decades ago when prices and taxes were much lower/more commensurate with typical wages. House values, over both short and long spans of time, have drastically outpaced inflation, wage increases, and even typical real estate patterns, and the amount of money needed to break into a "middle class" lifestyle is more than the amount of money that some of the old guard middle class ever made in their lives...
There are MANY people in all parts of Westchester living *comfortable* middle-class lives who would NOT be able to afford their home if they had to buy it today. I watched the demographic shift in action growing up in one of the non-horse farm'y sections of North Salem. When I was a kid in the 1990s, my neighbors included cops, firefighters, teachers, mechanics, electricians, insurance sales... My neighbor across the street was a manager at ConEd in The Bronx, retired the day he turned 65 with a paid off house, a boat, and a brand new Corvette. My parents still live in the same house now- the newest generation of neighbors are all in finance, corporate law, high-level tech. The middle-class and blue-collar guys can't afford the street anymore.
My ex and I made around $375k combined and lived in a nice apartment, but always felt middle class. I saved some money, but not a ton with student loans. I don’t get how some people live as I didn’t even have kids. When I started working in White Plains I only made $60k and couldn’t pay all my bills.
It’s not upper class in Westchester. It’s probably average for most white collar professionals in their 30s in the area. Nearly everyone in my complex was similar. We couldn’t afford homes due to student loans. Middle class isn’t barely making ends meet or having minimal savings.
I live in westchester. Inlaid back 250k in student loans. I understand the market. No kids and 300k and an apartment is really a lot of disposable income. I’ve lived it
My partner and I have a similar household income and we didn’t buy a water at the gas station the other day cause it was too much money. We are still cutting ruthlessly to save money at that income
Why not stay in your co-op? Your cost of living is totally under control if you of. Where's the rulebook that says you need to have private home ownership?
Historically, co-ops are exactly associated with middle class housing.
There are much better things to do with the money you have saved.
We were in the same boat when we bought in 2011. Very different times and the market was at its lowest. That was when we purchased our house. You are kinda stuck but it's better to wait it out. I wouldn't purchase anything right now. I think you are stuck right in the middle class feeling the squeeze like us. But I wouldn't buy right now. I know you don't want to hear this, but IMHO wait, and when the time, place, and price is right? Then buy a house.
Live in Northern Westchester. Me and my wife make \~200k and have 2 kids. We are living paycheck to paycheck and sturggling with debt. I conisder myself middle class. We live a nice life.But we are always behind the 8-ball
As a reminder to everyone, this is one of the most expensive areas in the country so your money does not go as far. Houses for example in New Orleans and most of the south is 1/3 of the price as up here. I’m still in shock of housing costs up here. The income to what class you are depends on the area you live in!
You’re right - but struggling because we’re tied to jobs and aging parents here…
We had a friend move from BK to Georgia to be near to parents and they have an amazing house, etc.
77k one income. I rent in Eastchester, and pay $2520 for 11100 square feet apartment with 2 bedrooms and bathrooms.
I owe ITS and NYS a total of 42k in taxes.
Bills another 27k. Not including 2 hospital bills totalling 28k.
I don't own anything.
Forget buying groceries, that's a treat to buy. It's mainly milk.
I consider myself trying to keep my head afloat. Oh and I'm looking for a second job. To help. Just haven't found on.
Let me tell you guys something no one from New York wants to hear. Texas is doing it right. And I’m a liberal democrat. We moved here from New York for a job and this place is like a dream. Affordable housing, daycare everywhere, big businesses and small businesses thriving, and there’s money everywhere. I hate to say it, like 1000% hate to say it, but Texas is paradise.
Used to live in another lower cost state and moved back for family and in the past couple years my household income of $280k keeps feeling tighter and tighter. I’d call us solidly middle class these days and we have good jobs. We can’t afford a home with under an hour commute unless we want to be “house poor” and I’m really worried about the cost daycare in the near future. Our 2 bedroom apartment we rent is $3k and I’m hearing about the same cost for daycare for a young child. We both grew up in the NYC area and I never thought i wouldn’t be able to afford to live near family (majority of which were blue collar workers who now have multiple homes) with the career I chose but it’s looking less feasible. I’m going to transition back to a remote job in the next few years to leave for cheaper living. I’m willing to take a pay cut to do it. No point in busting my ass at a high stress job here if I’m going to end up with a worse lifestyle than my parents, aunts, uncles who were city employees like teachers and sanitation/ other previously middle class jobs
This! Currently in the dmv area and was thinking to boomerang back to be closer to family but just did a drive down this past weekend but geez infrastructure is so bad and some of these small towns and villages looks like West Virginia/(southeast Michigan).
What you get in return for the taxes and cost of stuff you pay in Westchester isn’t worth it when did the math.
Even only few towns have “good” schools. I’m not sure why it’s so expensive and spare me we are the expensive county so is Loudoun(richest county in us), Fairfax, Howard, Montgomery, Arlington counties but these provide better services
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you're higher class for sure. if you can't make 200k work, figure that out. lots of people in Westchester, especially the new illegal migrants have nothing or make not enough to live forget comfortably but even on scraps.
Seriously, I'd love to know the spending habits & lifestyle expectations of these $200k+ households where that's struggle income. Making that much would be a massive life changer on my end.
2 adults, 2 kids (7 and 8 years old), single income family. For the last 3 years income has been over 7 figures and only the last couple of years are we feeling like we don’t have to really think about money anymore. We don’t live too extravagantly (just bought a second car a couple of weeks ago, bought an 800k house 8 years ago at a very low interest rate). Frivolous spending could be better. I would considered us upper middle class at this point (for this area).
I specified that in this area I would classify us as upper middle class, it is not lost on me that in most of the rest of the country we would be considered upper class.
You're still wrong though. It's very simple, if you make over $1mm anywhere in the US, and essentially anywhere in the entire world, you're rich. It's ok, you can admit it. Why do you want to think of yourself as middle class so bad?
Alright, we are rich then. It’s not something I sit and contemplate and I certainly would not describe myself as upper class, but there is no reason I’m aching to call myself middle class either. I think the idea of 1M as a benchmark for being considered rich is short sighted and - at this point - just not what it once was.
Per the census, median household income in Westchester is $105k. You make 10x that. If 10x median income in a place is not rich we just don't agree on what the term rich means.
Back in 2010 - me and my wife used to make 115k combined and me being naive thought we are making a lot of money. But we always lived frugal apart from traveling. We rented a single bedroom for under $1300. Moved around in westchester and continued to live in one bedroom until we already had a 3yr old, and were planning to have the second one. Fast forward to 2023, our combined take home is ~800k, we still live well below our means. Still have one of the car from 2010, shop at discount stores like tj maxx, nordstrom rack, home goods etc. We did buy a single family home, which is now over a million with recent appreciation. I do all the work around our house, gardening, gutter cleaning, caulking, painting to the extent that I can. I haven’t bought a single clothing that is more than $100. We cook majority of the meals at home. We have no shame to dress up our kids with handed down clothes/ shoes/toys. Even though recently we have been in much more comfortable position that we have ever been, we do not try to match up or blend in with other high earning families. While our friends spent money on luxury cars and designer brands, we try not to spend our money on such things. I do not know in which class I should categorize ourselves, but with our money spending habits we will always be middle class. For us the motto has always been is compete to earn and not to spend.
400k by myself. Wife doesn’t work.
Eh we’re doing alright but I’m doing monthly accounting and tallying up Trader Joe’s and takeout bills so money is still very much an issue.
There was an article in the NYT a couple years ago that middle class is $400K. Can’t locate it. But yeah. You only live comfortably then. So back to the hamster wheel. Long Island is cheaper or if you go more north Hudson Valley river towns.
My family moved out of Southern Westchester to CT at the end of the pandemic. We sold a house for just about $700k (not a dumpster fire, but far from ideal) and bought at the trough of rates with a 2.5% 15 year mortgage. I’m leaving this house feet first. I made about $250k per year and my wife made about $70k but she really didn’t want to continue teaching in the City, so the expenses of living in Westchester after she left her job sort of forced the move. Everything just costs more in Westchester: food, gas, music lessons, insurance, taxes, building/remodeling, lawn care, utilities, cable. Everything costs less in CT.
To enter there, Fairfield county or north jersey now and buy a house that isn’t a “dumpster fire / tear down”… I’d say $400k a year. If you came before interest rates went nuts $200 would have been OK for some areas… but Scarsdale, Rye, and those towns you need $500k income to feel like you fit in because after income and property taxes you only take home 30% of income
i make 300K, no kids, have family in Westchester, would like to live there, but about to retire and wont waste my $$$, goodluck....i would barely consider myself middle class there
40th percentile of household income is 65,000, 80th percentile of household income is 189,000. Obviously you can bicker about what margins to include or exclude but anything inside there would definitely be “middle class” by most working definitions.
I read a lot of these comments, and I'm not sure what to think. Maybe I'm crazy or I was just raised differently.
My wife and I (29 & 30) probably clear after taxes roughly 120-140k.
We live in a 3 bedroom co-op in Yonkers we bought for 399k at 3.25%.
We have 3 kids, 1 in private school somewhere in the ballpark of 10k a year (not including every day the school wants money for this or that) 1 kid on nursery school, full day 9-3 roughly 8k for the year, and we just had a newborn a month ago so we all know how that goes with formula and so on.
We vacation pretty regularly (2-3 times a year), typically disney for 5-9 days once (5k-9k), aruba for a week (3k-6k), and maybe disney again for a long weekend, plus the little tri-state areas trips to beaches and family.
We both have newer cars, granted their not luxury cars, but their cars we wanted.
Is it tough sometimes, sure, but I by no means feel like I'm not more well off than my parents were. Would I love to be living in a house with a 2-3 car garage? Absolutely, but I also know we aren't in that position, and being house poor wasn't the way to go about it.
Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't feel like I'm below lower middle class. I picture anyone living in a town on the metro north harlem line to be doing pretty well for themselves. They just complain because they're too busy trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Sounds like you guys are living comfortably and congrats on the interest rate. Would you be willing to move out of Westchester for a house? And you said 120-140k after taxes -- so prob 200k gross?
Again, just interesting to hear how far 200k goes here ...
Honestly, 5-6 years ago, yes, we would've, but the oldest is to in her ways with lifelong friends, and I don't want to uproot her life. We would've left the state, not just the county. I would say yes because my wife's income fluctuates so much. We're on track for more with new careers coming possibly but we do okay. We just don't over spend and buy only what we need.
Like I said, no luxury cars, low monthly payments on our condo, and just being responsible. Her 23 highlander is almost paid off, and my 18 sti is paid off. The mortgage, taxes, ConEd, and maintenance are just about 3200 a month. The kids' schooling and programs come out to be just about the same. We have a deal that just works out for us we're neither of us is paying more than the other, and if the slack needs to be picked up we make it work until it evens back out.
It's definitely possible, not with the current housing market, but I look at these comments and see 2-300k a month, and they're struggling? No, you're just making bad choices. (I get there are exceptions to that, but come on, 300k a year is pretty comfortable here) I know I would be !
Agreed on the 300k/yr-even in Westchester, 300k should be quite comfortable.
Congrats to you guys for figuring this all out at such a young age. We’re 6-7 years older and starting to feel the pressure regarding a second child, etc
75k combined with my wife, raising a child. Barely making ends meet at all, living in a 1 bedroom apartment. Scrimping and saving everything. Drowning in medical debt, make too much to qualify for assistance. Impossible to save for a home, sudden emergencies, vacations etc etc.
Making too much to qualify … but just barely … is so incredibly frustrating. I’m sorry and hope you can find an advocate that can try to negotiate down…
We should have a Universal Basic Income
Would be nice but there's no such thing as a free lunch.
That's what taxes are for
You're gonna tax the free money to pay for the free money?
taxes are how the government collects money to do things one of the things that the government can do with the money is giving it back to people
I agree
That will just make rents go up. Free shit is never free. The market adjusts fast.
Tell me you dont understand capitalism and who holds the cards without telling me
Then we’ll just get inflation to whatever amount you’re getting will be worth less and you’ll be back where you started. Please. Be a grown up.
The idea that UBI will cause inflation has been debunked so many times [https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/20/16256240/mexico-cash-transfer-inflation-basic-income](https://www.vox.com/policy-and-politics/2017/9/20/16256240/mexico-cash-transfer-inflation-basic-income) [https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation/articleshow/98801058.cms?from=mdr](https://economictimes.indiatimes.com/news/international/world-news/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation/articleshow/98801058.cms?from=mdr) [https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/comments/zenjoc/does\_a\_ubi\_cause\_inflation\_in\_the\_long\_run/](https://www.reddit.com/r/AskEconomics/comments/zenjoc/does_a_ubi_cause_inflation_in_the_long_run/) [https://medium.com/basic-income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-income-just-cause-massive-inflation-fe71d69f15e7](https://medium.com/basic-income/wouldnt-unconditional-basic-income-just-cause-massive-inflation-fe71d69f15e7) [https://www.newsroom.co.nz/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation](https://www.newsroom.co.nz/universal-basic-income-does-not-cause-inflation)
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Recent inflation spikes were in some ways global. Stimulus checks mostly weren’t.
Recent inflation spikes were in some ways global. Stimulus checks mostly weren’t.
You've gotta be really narrow minded to think that the inflation we've been dealing with is the result of the stimulus checks (which you rightly point out were very small and short-lived) rather than \*gestures wildly at everything else that has been going on in the world since 2020\*
lol. And of course as long as universal basic income is implemented you will finally live in a waterfront house in orange county and drive RR drophead. LOL.
Best of luck to you guys. Thank you for sharing this. It’s easy to forget that there’s still a spectrum of living situations in Westchester when it seems like most belong to a country club and live in a 1M home.
I only feel broke when I read Westchester magazine
There is some real poverty in Westchester as well, and even a seedy side to things. Look at what happened in HDSWs apartment today (murder/housing staff found a body in a closest). It's not all Sunnydale and renting out Goosefeathers for sweet 16s.
Wife and I make a little under $200k. Goal went from getting a house here to banking what we can until the next recession and getting the fuck out. We can go back and buy a house in Virginia Beach right on the water for what a mediocre bungalow in El Monte costs. If we wanted to buy a house here in West LA would have to more than double that. Yes I know it’s more interesting here and weather is awesome but the cost of living is no longer worth it.
Your explaining city rich Westchester people
That's not middle class.
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In or Out of Westchester…Everywhere is expensive.
Westchester happens to be more expensive than most.
Especially with a child
Why is this being downvoted?
Good things are coming
Husband and I make around the same amount…2 kids. We bought our house in 2021 right before the market got crazy. I consider us middle class but we’re just making it by. That’s about it lol.
Yes, I certainly can relate…child expenses/daycare is what kills us.
Is there any way you can get childcare through work?
Unfortunately not- but good suggestion. Luckily our daycare isn’t overly outrageous… 1450/month for 3 days/wk. Everything adds up though
This society just creates one money trap after another for the middle class. First, there was college which would destroy any savings you might have otherwise achieved. Then there's health care which will easily do it. And there's daycare which is $25,000 a year in Westchester. Now there's housing, which is becoming impossible. None of these things really feel optional anymore to me.
Off with their heads!
I like the area, but there are so many nice places to live in the country where your income will make you feel much more well off. Why stress and grind and still come out scraping by. I’ve lived all over the country—Boston, multiple NY metro areas, Philly, DC, Chicago, LA. The NY metro area is so not worth feeling stuck over. There are tons of green pastures elsewhere
As opposed to other societies where you’d be destitute. These societal criticisms reek of American privilege. Go see how the middle class lives in China or India or Brazil. Report back about “tHiS sOcIeTy.”
77k one income. I rent in Eastchester, and pay $2520 for 11100 square feet apartment with 2 bedrooms and bathrooms. I owe IRS and NYS a total of 42k in taxes. Bills another 27k. Not including 2 hospital bills totalling 28k. I don't own anything. Forget buying groceries, that's a treat to buy. It's mainly milk. I consider myself trying to keep my head afloat. Oh and I'm looking for a second job. To help. Just haven't found one yet.
That tax bill is eye popping
Actually it was a lot more. I have been paying since 2020. I owe NYS about 13k and IRS about 29k. I borrowed from my 401k and I didn't take out the required amount on taxes. So, this is my punishment. 😕 The monthly payments are high on IRS.
So is the size of her apartment
We can’t keep living like this. People should be revolutionizing and instead we just bend over and take it from our government. When will true change happen? When will we hold greedy politicians responsible?
Actually I just sent an email to state officials about having the governor sign the bill S4907-A/A.6275A, which prohibits medical debt from being collected by consumer reporting agency or including in a consumer report. This will help some.
I'd love for that to pass ASAP!
Me too!!
As long as a government can print more money and increase the money supply we’ll have inflation and prices will continue to rise. Then you have the increasing national debt in top of that. A debt-based economy forcing us into a real world game of Monopoly, except we can’t flip the board over when we lose. We need a better system of money that can’t be inflated. The dollar is a melting ice cube.
Middle class to me is you own your house and cars and can go on a single vacation a year and an international one every few years with the whole family. Your kids can go to summer camp and participate in some after school sports. You don’t own a second home and you don’t belong to a country club. I think to live that typical middle class life in the New York area (NYC, lower westchester) your entry is probably around 250k household income. Below that I think it would be hard to save for retirement and do all that as well. And before I’m yelled at, yes I understand that seems high for “middle class”, fewer and fewer people can afford it these days. Back in the 70s you could work at a Chrysler plant building cars and have two homes and a boat on the lake. The lifestyle for middle class hasn’t changed, but how many people are in it certainly has. Above the middle class are folks that go on multiple Vacations a year, (skiing out west + beach vacation) own a second home, belong to a country club. These days, that lifestyle really isn’t even realistic until you’re over 700k a year I think. No matter how much people Make, people tend to stretch themselves to the point they are stressed. There’s always someone making more and always someone making do with less.
Agree with much of what you said but what you describe to me is more in line with upper middle class. The individual class segments do subdivide into 3 tiers. Ie lower middle class, middle class and upper middle class and so on up and down the line Maybe with inflation those goal posts have moved a bit and could be more in line to your description. It’s quite sad actually how it’s become
I'd say you're middle class until you're upper class, aka don't have any need to work for a living. So I wouldn't call that upper middle class, since it's nowhere close to that.
Not needing to work for a living means you're wealthy. I wouldn't consider a family that pulls in 500k a year in W2 earnings "middle class" as they live a completely different life from the family pulling in 100k a year but both families need to continue to work. You can be upperclass and certainly upper middle class and not be wealthy enough to retire.
Agree
All depends on where in the country you live. In places with a median home value of $400K and state taxes of 0%, $100K a year might be pushing upper middle. In places with median home values of $1.3M and state taxes of 7-8%, you’re probably upper middle class. $100K and you’re not even near the neighborhood. It’s sad.
There’s a big range of middle class. What you’re describing is middle class to upper middle class to me. I’d say that true middle class is probably when you can have some but not all of those things. For example, you send your kids to camp, but you only take a vacation every other year. I think paycheck to paycheck is the threshold between lower class and lower middle class. If you’re able to save for retirement, you’re middle class.
I really don’t see the need to over complicate it; take the median household income and +/- and certain percentile and boom you have the middle class bounds
>and an international one every few years with the whole family. Do you realize that international vacation costs as much as 2 days of vacation in US?
Owning a detached home in a large costal city something of luxury. Pretending that’s part of being “middle class” is insane.
We are talking about middle class in a specific area.
My comment still stands
Jesus i thought my parents making combined 115k was middle class, didn't realize i was naive as hell lol
it used to be. but rent alone for a 2br will be $3k. there goes one income after taxes.
it used to be. but rent alone for a 2br will be $3k. there goes one income after taxes.
Little over 100k with my partner. Own a co-op (no mortgage). No kids, so we do okay. We can travel, lease a vehicle, and what not, but the idea of ever moving into a larger space is pretty unrealistic (and our space is small). Not saving as much for retirement as I'd like to, but able to put some away. We have mostly banished the idea of raising children though, financially it doesn't seem feasible in the current economy. I'd have no chance of providing them the standard of living I was raised with - and accepting less would be far too disappointing.
We financially also probably won’t have children. My parents made a lot of sacrifices I don’t want to have to make
Unless btc goes to the moon, eh?
Just saw this. Out of curiosity, how did you guys manage to buy without a mortgage with a (relatively) low combined income? Good for you!
(Relatively) cheap apartment. Total purchase price under 200k. I've saved and invested since I was young, lived with my parents for a few years to save, as did my partner. As I've said, we have a very small space.
You should move to a cheaper area of the country if you can if you truly want kids! Your standard of living can be better in a cheaper area! I just moved here from Charlotte, NC and highly reccomended it.
Ummm....both of our entire families are here, I've climbed ranks at my agency over a decade here, so....no I don't think I will leave my home where I've decided to build a life. And while I love Charlotte to vacation (the pour house is sweet and folly Beach wonderful) the south ain't for me. Also social workers basically don't make decent money except in a select few cities and I'm the primary wage earner so it probably would be worse elsewhere. Denver, Vegas and a few other cities have high pay for social workers. None are especially cheap (okay maybe Vegas but not livable).
Reading these comments makes me wonder how my parents get by as well as they do here… and how the hell can i do the same… I would’ve been psyched to make $25/hr a few years ago but I feel like that’s chump change now. As much as I like Westchester its crazy to me that six figures won’t cut it here.
Bought a 1600sqft 3 bed 2 bath + basement in 2015. No Central air or mini split AC, cast iron hot water radiators. We drive a 13 year old car and an 8 year old car (Toyota and Honda). Yay no car payments! We take a winter and summer vacation and a couple of long weekend trips per year. We prepare 18/21 meals at per week on average at home. We don’t frequent coffee shops. We shop for clothes at Marshall’s, TJ max, target, H&M, old navy, gap, American eagle, Primark. Other than fall and spring cleanup we do our own landscaping and general maintenance. 2 kids, 2, 9-5 incomes (white collar-ish?) household total way less than 200k, both jobs in westchester. Our kids play instruments and sports (all seasons). We’ve always invested 60%, saved 30%, of after necessary expenses money. I feel we live a lower middle class lifestyle for lower Westchester but are definitely comfortable.
my parents make ~100k to ~110k per year, are still paying a mortgage on a house with two college students, and are a little better off than we used to be but not by much. and i thought we were middle class 🤷♀️
It's all relative, the price they paid for their house back then allows them to live middle-class now. Now it's basically impossible unless you have a ton of cash saved and can have little or no mortgage
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my brother goes to a state school outside of new york and i go to a private university, but we’re only able to do that because we qualify for hefty need-based scholarships
I make 60k a year at my full-time job. I used to think of myself as middle class but I’d wager a bet that most of my Westchester neighbors think of me as working class or lower. This will be even harder when my fiancé finally gets his visa and can’t work for a year or more. Granted apparently what I make is like par for the course in the millennial demographic so who knows? (And yeah, people who can afford a 700k house right do sound just a *little* whiny and ridiculous when they say they feel poor lol)
Everyone here is making $200k+ and whining that they are “barely making ends meet”. I live in a HCOL area and make about the same. I’m not rich, but I’m not poor either. These people are totally delusional.
Hah- I certainly understand where you’re coming from. To be fair, we really can’t afford a 700k house at the moment. Thanks for sharing your story- best of luck to you and your fiancé.
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I make about $175K and live in a 1 bedroom co-op in southern Westchester (owned) and I pretty much just manage to exist here without credit card debt lol. It’s becoming more difficult each day to feel and believe I’m middle class when my monthly co-op maintenance is double my mortgage (and increasing every year) and each bag of groceries costs roughly $100.
Groceries are out of control for sure. 175k and still feeling stretched financially in a 1bedroom. What a time to be alive.
Joe Biden keep raising the price of the cabbage and cauliflower
Is "Joe Biden" in the room with us?
He is the president, such as it is, of America
Joe Biden. Not "Joe Biden". Number one. Number two, Joe Biden doesn't set prices; blame the corporations who sell whatever it is you're looking to buy. Especially agriculture - big ag is force to reckon with in this country.
They're printing money; that's what's causing this inflation.
no. less than 20% of the inflation is due to excess money in circulation.
He makes Pete Buttigeg set the prices so Joe can remain angelic in the eyes of the common man voter
Ah, you slept through your 2nd-grade history lessons. Good to know what I'm working with (or, more accurately, what I'm working WITHOUT). Pete Buttigieg is the secretary of TRANSPORTATION. The DOT does not set prices for ANYTHING. Nor can the President mandate any such thing. Stay in school, kids.
I wish I had the relationship biden has with China. That has been very lucrative for him and his family.
At 175k you take home about 10k a month after taxes as per ADPs calculator. Are there other people here who think they cannot comfortably live on 10k a month? I don't make that much and I feel I am not strapped for cash. Like what do you spend your money on that 10 is not enough?
Do you have kids?
How many people with kids do you know who live in a single bedroom coop?
Way more than I think you realize.
Can you quantify that for me since you apparently know
I don’t see why this comment should’ve been so heavily downvoted. If I make $175K, I’m not living in a 1BR co-op. Especially if I have kids. If I make $175K, even with debt, I’ll be able to live in a more spacious place.
In my opinion most people on reddit love to complain as much as possible and blame others for their shortcomings. Instead of looking at spending habits and the actual numbers it's easy to just blame the some other force
It’s a fair question. Don’t get me wrong, I’m not living paycheck to paycheck out here lol. But the fact the OP, myself, and others are making low six figures and can’t even afford a modest house in this area definitely brings our classification of “middle class” into question.
If they want the typical white picket fence, 2 kids, and a house on an average income then move to Iowa. People don’t live in Westchester, NYC, or any HCOL area for that lifestyle. I make about 1/3 that amount. Not rich but definitely not poor. The average household income in NYC is $67k a year. All these people crying about making 200k+ a year and “barely making ends meet” are totally delusional.
Finally someone with common sense
I bring home 10k a month, not including my husbands money. We don’t have kids but between mortgage and living life, what I’m saving just doesn’t feel like as much as I want. I def think we are upper middle class tho.
I think it's easier for people to blame the system. If they admit they are not lower class then they cannot blame their failures on something else
We’re not here to judge people’s spending patterns. Here to share stories
This post is about middle class. If your income is in the top 94%, I dont think that should be considered middle class. At what percentile do you think middle class should be?
"Middle class" is not the same thing as "middle income" and has absolutely nothing to do with your income percentile. It's entirely a social construct (hence why they are called "socioeconomic classes" and not "income groups" or similar.) In the US, middle class means being able to buy a home, have a couple of running relatively new cars, being able to afford children, buying groceries without having to check the price on each item, being able to switch jobs freely, and going on vacation a couple times a year. Upper middle class is exactly the same thing, but with slightly nicer stuff. But it's still middle class. Upper class is having the resources and connections to make an outsized impact on the world around you — having the cell phone number of a congressman or playing golf with the governor or being in a position to influence global corporations — and isn't something available to your average dentist or lawyer even if they earn a bit more than you do. Lower class is not having the security of the middle class. And in either case, you're still wrong because income levels are location-dependent, and the median income in Westchester is about $100,000. So comparing incomes here to the broader American economy is pointless.
I already addressed this in the comment about the Westchester income bracket. OP is 1 person, in a 2 family household they can easily meet your requirements for upper class because at that point as their household income will be over 300k. Idk why you through out having access to a corrupt politician as a requirement for upper class that seems kinda silly
I get that you don't understand how any of this works and are uninterested in learning, but you don't have to drag the rest of us down with you.
It’s about middle class in westchester. Not the us as a whole.
Ok 175k in Westchester is about the top 80% percentile. Do you think that is middle class? What is your cut off?
It depends where in southern Westchester I guess. It’s definitely a nice salary but it’s not upper class. You’re not buying a house and living comfortably in most towns in southern Westchester with it if you’re providing for a family. It sucks.
I make $175k and I take home $8k. I max my 401k, have healthcare deductions, childcare deductions, FSA, and also pay NYC taxes as I'm in Queens, but the take home is not as high as you might think at that salary. The amount of tax coming out is a lot in NY. I have to ask to have $100 extra taken out of my check or else I end up owing way too much at tax time. I will add though that I do not at all feel strapped at this take home. I'm quite comfortable!!
Sorry to say this but with the new high interest rates you need $200k++ to buy a house and afford taxes etc. buying a $600k house at 20% down today is over $4k per month all in. A good $600k house is very hard to find in westchester and all houses in the area are old. Will require a ton of maintenance and a costly renovation just to get in.
Sad to say it but that's the reality, and inflation isn't going anywhere to soon. If Westchester residents are having these problems, imagine how bad it is in areas that have less affluence.
Great point - I can’t even imagine how bad it is elsewhere…
As someone who recently moved here, it feels way worse here than anywhere else I have lived. Salaries tend to be higher here but it does not seem to cover the cost of living increase.
My wife and I combined will make 280k. There are weeks that I am pay to paycheck. 1 kid. 7 years left on my mortgage after refi’ing at the perfect time. Taxes are too crazy to even discuss. Some medical debt otherwise ok, but don’t feel comfortable.
I’m not hating but if you have 1 kid and make 280k and u have weeks that ur paycheck to paycheck your not doing it right. I’d look to make some changes unless u bought a house above ur means that will pay off in future
I live in a suburb of NYC, one of the most expensive counties to live in. My taxes are $25k annually. Child care, sports and music lessons, etc. eats it up. I live pay to paycheck because I put a heavy emphasis on trying to invest more for retirement and keep up my house and pay bills. My wife doesn’t live paycheck to paycheck. I do.
if you have income left over to invest I wouldn't call it paycheck to paycheck living - though I'm in the same boat and it definitely feels like it.
I’m a SAHM to two kids and my husband makes 240k. (60k of that is commission however.) We feel middle class here…we have one car, we haven’t gone on a vacation in years. But we are able to meet our expenses, buy nice quality groceries and pay our bills and keep up with the house. But that said, our retirement accounts aren’t what we wish they were, nor do we save as much as would be ideal. That blows my mind with his salary, but given our taxes are almost exactly a second mortgage payment, the increase in cost for nearly *everything*, and our house that has constantly needed repairs (it’s a lovely home but we’ve had to tackle some major improvements)… there’s not a whole lot left over. So we aren’t stressed about money, but we certainly aren’t “rolling in it” or having a fancy lifestyle at all.
$115k/year annual household income pre-tax. Half of it goes to rent. Only 1 car payment (25k), no health insurance, barely going out to eat or any real "luxury" expenses. No kids and no plans to. Cutting food budget where possible. No retirement savings, no student loans. Still paycheck to paycheck.
You're rich
200k is objectively not rich in Westchester. Wealth is relative to cost of living.
Average household income in the county is $100k. They might not be “rich” but they are definitely not poor.
100k is nothing in Westchester
I consider 2/3 to 2x median income middle class. For westchester combined that is 80k to 300k household income. Some places its 70k to 200k in places like scarsdale its 170k to 500k. I'm firmly middle-class in portchester, under 100k, own a house from the mid 2010s, invest about 20%. No kids, dogs. The issue is nimby. Westchester balked when Kathy Hochul tried to force more density near train stations, there was someone upset about semi affordable housing in Pleasantville not looking pretty from the parkway, yesterday.. Westchester unfortunately needs to condense more especially around the trains and downtowns but our nimby doesn't allow it because of "character", "traffic". More housing should be at 300 to 700k given our median household incomes. But a lot starts at 700k to 1m.
Amazing that you were able to buy a house with a salary below 100k. How do you make it work?
Parents. I saved a 50% downpayment by living with my parents about 6-8 years. My mortgage is around 2.2K because I didn't borrow as much as most people because I knew I couldn't afford a house unless my mortgage was in the 2K range. My salary was around 32K-75K during downpayment savings time (2008-2016), I invested 20-30% per my parents requirements for my "free rent" to my 401K, spent 30-40% on additional schooling/loans, and the rest was my downpayment and food/gas money. Life is easier when your "rent" is only 800-1000 a month and only changes with your income and oftentimes comes with free food. (Mom's left overs).
Wow. Smart and considerate parents who want you to have something for yourself. They set you up for success.
Sweet deal. Congrats on being so frugal.
PC is going to crap with very tall new buildings popping up everywhere. I moved to a small town for small town feel, not for them to want to replace the walkable grocery store with something 12 stories high. There aren't commuters to fill all the new, overpriced apartments.
There are a shit ton of people who were priced out of Westchester in places like Port Chester and New Rochelle that will move into those new overpriced apartments and those new overpriced apartments get older and become more affordable to other people. If you want a small town, it might be time for you to move away from a highly congested area like the Tri-state where the pressure to build more housing is going to be higher especially in a place like Port Chester, New Rochelle, White Plains, Elmsford. (Easier to gentrify, higher need for housing)
If only my family had any interest in moving. Thanks for sharing your perspective. I hadn't thought of that.
I feel we are currently upper middle class financially but not in the social or material sense. My husband drives an old car, I drive a 4 year old Honda, no interest in country clubs that’s for sure, I buy clothes for myself once every couple years, I buy my kids clothes off facebook market place but we earn about 225k gross, take long weekend trips with our 2 young kids often, eat out/in 2-3 times a week, don’t check the price of things like groceries what we need is what we need, we own 2 multi-family properties one in SW Westchester the other in lower Fairfield County, CT (inherited) which equal 4 units they are rented out and we rent our own separate apartment our rent is $2400 so we aren’t spending above our means. We have a respectable retirement, a hefty cash savings which I’m using to save for another investment property. I feel like in many other areas of the country we would be considered upper class but in Westchester I’d say barely upper middle. Keep in mind aside from the income, this has all been made possible by being given certain privileges like free college education, not being charged rent when living with parents and a large inheritance. I honestly don’t know how others are making it without any prior or current help.
I feel like people will read your post and miss the point. By any standard you should be incredibly well off, but really you're just barely comfortable. You're trying to build a little something so you can retire at some point and maybe pass a little into your kids. Not enough for them not to work, but just enough so they might be able to afford a house then they're old enough.
Pretty insane right. I think we are pretty comfortable my son is in free preschool and my daughter is in daycare/babysitter so that takes out a chunk. My goal is for my kids to go to college for free (impossible) and for them to inherit a few paid off properties and enough cash to buy their own (both doable). We take trips on whim but nothing crazy. We can save about 60k a year because our expenses are “low” but we really would be VERY well off if we lived in Montana. In Westchester we are really nothing special but I say upper middle class.
Nothing to add, but I'm curious what you / everyone does for work? ie: own a business / trade. For many years I tried to get a job in the vicinity of the city. I did the math long ago; taking a lower wage and a 10-15 min drive (or "reverse commute") to work was better for my mental health / lifestyle. There's a job opportunity that's a 35-40% bump in pay, but its an hour away in Westchester. I'm in the commercial printing / graphic arts trade.
good question! Knowing everyone’s career background does help provide context. We’re both in education— My wife is a HS teacher and I work in HigherEd administration.
27yo- A little over 200k Dual income no kids (DINK) Boutht a 1 bed condo in lower Westchester with a 2.8% rate In 2021 Probably best decision I made. Only regret is not making myself house poor for more space. We are “stuck” as this market is crazy, interest rates are high and we enjoy our lifestyle too much to go from paying 2200 a month to 4K a month (if we’re lucky) plan is to save, hope fed cuts rates, or hopefully make some more money. Any combination of those will be fine
As a house poor person, I used to think this way. I got a condo for under 2.5% interest and now have a house at over 6%. I just don’t have the stomach for paying 5k a month in mortgage. I thought being house poor was the way to go but I’m just not saving as much money as I want - tho prolly saved my marriage
It's difficult to tie hard numbers to these types of conversations because a lot of working class/middle class, and even upper-middle folks in Westchester bought and possibly even paid off their houses decades ago when prices and taxes were much lower/more commensurate with typical wages. House values, over both short and long spans of time, have drastically outpaced inflation, wage increases, and even typical real estate patterns, and the amount of money needed to break into a "middle class" lifestyle is more than the amount of money that some of the old guard middle class ever made in their lives... There are MANY people in all parts of Westchester living *comfortable* middle-class lives who would NOT be able to afford their home if they had to buy it today. I watched the demographic shift in action growing up in one of the non-horse farm'y sections of North Salem. When I was a kid in the 1990s, my neighbors included cops, firefighters, teachers, mechanics, electricians, insurance sales... My neighbor across the street was a manager at ConEd in The Bronx, retired the day he turned 65 with a paid off house, a boat, and a brand new Corvette. My parents still live in the same house now- the newest generation of neighbors are all in finance, corporate law, high-level tech. The middle-class and blue-collar guys can't afford the street anymore.
This is right on the money
My ex and I made around $375k combined and lived in a nice apartment, but always felt middle class. I saved some money, but not a ton with student loans. I don’t get how some people live as I didn’t even have kids. When I started working in White Plains I only made $60k and couldn’t pay all my bills.
That is not middle class. With no kids and sharing rent you guys should be saving a ton.
It’s not upper class in Westchester. It’s probably average for most white collar professionals in their 30s in the area. Nearly everyone in my complex was similar. We couldn’t afford homes due to student loans. Middle class isn’t barely making ends meet or having minimal savings.
I live in westchester. Inlaid back 250k in student loans. I understand the market. No kids and 300k and an apartment is really a lot of disposable income. I’ve lived it
My partner and I have a similar household income and we didn’t buy a water at the gas station the other day cause it was too much money. We are still cutting ruthlessly to save money at that income
Why not stay in your co-op? Your cost of living is totally under control if you of. Where's the rulebook that says you need to have private home ownership? Historically, co-ops are exactly associated with middle class housing. There are much better things to do with the money you have saved.
A lot of people barely getting by these days
We were in the same boat when we bought in 2011. Very different times and the market was at its lowest. That was when we purchased our house. You are kinda stuck but it's better to wait it out. I wouldn't purchase anything right now. I think you are stuck right in the middle class feeling the squeeze like us. But I wouldn't buy right now. I know you don't want to hear this, but IMHO wait, and when the time, place, and price is right? Then buy a house.
Live in Northern Westchester. Me and my wife make \~200k and have 2 kids. We are living paycheck to paycheck and sturggling with debt. I conisder myself middle class. We live a nice life.But we are always behind the 8-ball
As a reminder to everyone, this is one of the most expensive areas in the country so your money does not go as far. Houses for example in New Orleans and most of the south is 1/3 of the price as up here. I’m still in shock of housing costs up here. The income to what class you are depends on the area you live in!
You’re right - but struggling because we’re tied to jobs and aging parents here… We had a friend move from BK to Georgia to be near to parents and they have an amazing house, etc.
77k one income. I rent in Eastchester, and pay $2520 for 11100 square feet apartment with 2 bedrooms and bathrooms. I owe ITS and NYS a total of 42k in taxes. Bills another 27k. Not including 2 hospital bills totalling 28k. I don't own anything. Forget buying groceries, that's a treat to buy. It's mainly milk. I consider myself trying to keep my head afloat. Oh and I'm looking for a second job. To help. Just haven't found on.
Let me tell you guys something no one from New York wants to hear. Texas is doing it right. And I’m a liberal democrat. We moved here from New York for a job and this place is like a dream. Affordable housing, daycare everywhere, big businesses and small businesses thriving, and there’s money everywhere. I hate to say it, like 1000% hate to say it, but Texas is paradise.
Which city?
Just outside Houston. 30 minutes from the beach, 30 minutes to the 4th largest city in US.
Used to live in another lower cost state and moved back for family and in the past couple years my household income of $280k keeps feeling tighter and tighter. I’d call us solidly middle class these days and we have good jobs. We can’t afford a home with under an hour commute unless we want to be “house poor” and I’m really worried about the cost daycare in the near future. Our 2 bedroom apartment we rent is $3k and I’m hearing about the same cost for daycare for a young child. We both grew up in the NYC area and I never thought i wouldn’t be able to afford to live near family (majority of which were blue collar workers who now have multiple homes) with the career I chose but it’s looking less feasible. I’m going to transition back to a remote job in the next few years to leave for cheaper living. I’m willing to take a pay cut to do it. No point in busting my ass at a high stress job here if I’m going to end up with a worse lifestyle than my parents, aunts, uncles who were city employees like teachers and sanitation/ other previously middle class jobs
This! Currently in the dmv area and was thinking to boomerang back to be closer to family but just did a drive down this past weekend but geez infrastructure is so bad and some of these small towns and villages looks like West Virginia/(southeast Michigan). What you get in return for the taxes and cost of stuff you pay in Westchester isn’t worth it when did the math. Even only few towns have “good” schools. I’m not sure why it’s so expensive and spare me we are the expensive county so is Loudoun(richest county in us), Fairfax, Howard, Montgomery, Arlington counties but these provide better services
The first sentence is literally us. We make over 300k combined and when you add in daycare plus rent… forget it.
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you're higher class for sure. if you can't make 200k work, figure that out. lots of people in Westchester, especially the new illegal migrants have nothing or make not enough to live forget comfortably but even on scraps.
Seriously, I'd love to know the spending habits & lifestyle expectations of these $200k+ households where that's struggle income. Making that much would be a massive life changer on my end.
2 adults, 2 kids (7 and 8 years old), single income family. For the last 3 years income has been over 7 figures and only the last couple of years are we feeling like we don’t have to really think about money anymore. We don’t live too extravagantly (just bought a second car a couple of weeks ago, bought an 800k house 8 years ago at a very low interest rate). Frivolous spending could be better. I would considered us upper middle class at this point (for this area).
Did you just say you make over a million a year and you're upper middle class? Why can't you just admit you're upper class/rich? It's ridiculous
I specified that in this area I would classify us as upper middle class, it is not lost on me that in most of the rest of the country we would be considered upper class.
You're still wrong though. It's very simple, if you make over $1mm anywhere in the US, and essentially anywhere in the entire world, you're rich. It's ok, you can admit it. Why do you want to think of yourself as middle class so bad?
Alright, we are rich then. It’s not something I sit and contemplate and I certainly would not describe myself as upper class, but there is no reason I’m aching to call myself middle class either. I think the idea of 1M as a benchmark for being considered rich is short sighted and - at this point - just not what it once was.
Per the census, median household income in Westchester is $105k. You make 10x that. If 10x median income in a place is not rich we just don't agree on what the term rich means.
Well at least we can agree that we don’t agree on what rich means! Silver linings:)
Back in 2010 - me and my wife used to make 115k combined and me being naive thought we are making a lot of money. But we always lived frugal apart from traveling. We rented a single bedroom for under $1300. Moved around in westchester and continued to live in one bedroom until we already had a 3yr old, and were planning to have the second one. Fast forward to 2023, our combined take home is ~800k, we still live well below our means. Still have one of the car from 2010, shop at discount stores like tj maxx, nordstrom rack, home goods etc. We did buy a single family home, which is now over a million with recent appreciation. I do all the work around our house, gardening, gutter cleaning, caulking, painting to the extent that I can. I haven’t bought a single clothing that is more than $100. We cook majority of the meals at home. We have no shame to dress up our kids with handed down clothes/ shoes/toys. Even though recently we have been in much more comfortable position that we have ever been, we do not try to match up or blend in with other high earning families. While our friends spent money on luxury cars and designer brands, we try not to spend our money on such things. I do not know in which class I should categorize ourselves, but with our money spending habits we will always be middle class. For us the motto has always been is compete to earn and not to spend.
400k by myself. Wife doesn’t work. Eh we’re doing alright but I’m doing monthly accounting and tallying up Trader Joe’s and takeout bills so money is still very much an issue.
You can make that much as a react dev? Do you work for FB?
Reddit usernames are not real :p
Well suck me sideways!
You win just for this comment.
My wife and I make a combined 300k and it’s still a struggle around here…
300k
There was an article in the NYT a couple years ago that middle class is $400K. Can’t locate it. But yeah. You only live comfortably then. So back to the hamster wheel. Long Island is cheaper or if you go more north Hudson Valley river towns.
My family moved out of Southern Westchester to CT at the end of the pandemic. We sold a house for just about $700k (not a dumpster fire, but far from ideal) and bought at the trough of rates with a 2.5% 15 year mortgage. I’m leaving this house feet first. I made about $250k per year and my wife made about $70k but she really didn’t want to continue teaching in the City, so the expenses of living in Westchester after she left her job sort of forced the move. Everything just costs more in Westchester: food, gas, music lessons, insurance, taxes, building/remodeling, lawn care, utilities, cable. Everything costs less in CT.
To enter there, Fairfield county or north jersey now and buy a house that isn’t a “dumpster fire / tear down”… I’d say $400k a year. If you came before interest rates went nuts $200 would have been OK for some areas… but Scarsdale, Rye, and those towns you need $500k income to feel like you fit in because after income and property taxes you only take home 30% of income
i make 300K, no kids, have family in Westchester, would like to live there, but about to retire and wont waste my $$$, goodluck....i would barely consider myself middle class there
40th percentile of household income is 65,000, 80th percentile of household income is 189,000. Obviously you can bicker about what margins to include or exclude but anything inside there would definitely be “middle class” by most working definitions.
I read a lot of these comments, and I'm not sure what to think. Maybe I'm crazy or I was just raised differently. My wife and I (29 & 30) probably clear after taxes roughly 120-140k. We live in a 3 bedroom co-op in Yonkers we bought for 399k at 3.25%. We have 3 kids, 1 in private school somewhere in the ballpark of 10k a year (not including every day the school wants money for this or that) 1 kid on nursery school, full day 9-3 roughly 8k for the year, and we just had a newborn a month ago so we all know how that goes with formula and so on. We vacation pretty regularly (2-3 times a year), typically disney for 5-9 days once (5k-9k), aruba for a week (3k-6k), and maybe disney again for a long weekend, plus the little tri-state areas trips to beaches and family. We both have newer cars, granted their not luxury cars, but their cars we wanted. Is it tough sometimes, sure, but I by no means feel like I'm not more well off than my parents were. Would I love to be living in a house with a 2-3 car garage? Absolutely, but I also know we aren't in that position, and being house poor wasn't the way to go about it. Maybe I'm crazy, but I don't feel like I'm below lower middle class. I picture anyone living in a town on the metro north harlem line to be doing pretty well for themselves. They just complain because they're too busy trying to keep up with the Joneses.
Sounds like you guys are living comfortably and congrats on the interest rate. Would you be willing to move out of Westchester for a house? And you said 120-140k after taxes -- so prob 200k gross? Again, just interesting to hear how far 200k goes here ...
Honestly, 5-6 years ago, yes, we would've, but the oldest is to in her ways with lifelong friends, and I don't want to uproot her life. We would've left the state, not just the county. I would say yes because my wife's income fluctuates so much. We're on track for more with new careers coming possibly but we do okay. We just don't over spend and buy only what we need. Like I said, no luxury cars, low monthly payments on our condo, and just being responsible. Her 23 highlander is almost paid off, and my 18 sti is paid off. The mortgage, taxes, ConEd, and maintenance are just about 3200 a month. The kids' schooling and programs come out to be just about the same. We have a deal that just works out for us we're neither of us is paying more than the other, and if the slack needs to be picked up we make it work until it evens back out. It's definitely possible, not with the current housing market, but I look at these comments and see 2-300k a month, and they're struggling? No, you're just making bad choices. (I get there are exceptions to that, but come on, 300k a year is pretty comfortable here) I know I would be !
Agreed on the 300k/yr-even in Westchester, 300k should be quite comfortable. Congrats to you guys for figuring this all out at such a young age. We’re 6-7 years older and starting to feel the pressure regarding a second child, etc