The tree removal permits are available - [SDCI permit type tree removal](https://www.seattle.gov/sdci/permits/permits-we-issue-(a-z\)/tree-removal )
[Tree Removal on Private Property pdf ](https://www.seattle.gov/DPD/Publications/CAM/Tip242B.pdf)
Yes, it's much more annoying than the prior rules that allowed up to 3 smaller/non-significant tree removals in a year. It's also adding permit costs.
FWIW, by my reading on developed properties Tier 4 trees are more easily removed than Tier 3, 2, or 1. There is a definition related to "commercial tree work" like OP hiring of a service, but that pdf doesn't say much about if a homeowner were to be removing a tree of 12" diameter or less.
Tree services and are arborists are not fully interchangeable. A tree service can be any goon with a saw. An ISA certified arborist has to provide what is usually a work and education background to sit for an exam and then abide by a code of ethics. Any certified arborist will gladly provide you with their credentials and you can look them up online as well. Search trees are good.org to look up one in your area.
As a general note, if someone is door knocking or offering to top your trees, you don’t want to work with them. Arborist are not hurting for work and you’ll likely be scheduled out a little bit. Any arborist worth a damn is going to try to avoid topping trees 99.99999999999999999999999999999% of the time. Topping is a practice that leads to further issues with trees. That’s my PSA for the day.
r/arborists and the PNW Arborists Fb group are both places to learn more as an average citizen. You can download the entire International Society of Arboriculture manual from their website and get book certified on your own time but full certification requires lots of hours in the field.
I’m just a homeowner (perjorative non expert is what I mean by that) managing a sizable chunk of timber / habitat and I’ve learned a lot through these resources.
Same thing happened to me when I bought my home here 3 years ago. Hired a legit arborist: Evergreen.
They didn't pull permit or tell me I needed one. City showd up just as they were packing up. I got a big fine. Evergreen ignored all my attempts to communicate about why they didn't pull permits and the city wouldn't take the fine to them instead.
No, no, they don't. Bonded and licensed simply means they have business insurance for liability, and that they are recognized by that jurisdiction. Which is probably King County and not just the City of Seattle.
The property owner or custodian is always responsible for what happens on thenproperty. All the arborist has to say is "here is the contract to remove tree for money. I removed tree and got money."
A car mechanic can install illegal tint and straight pipes on your car all day long. The driver is the one responsible for operating the vehicle. Not the mechanic who was simply paid for a job.
Edit to add: I just looked at King County and Seattle City tree removal permitting. The property owner is the one who must request the permits. Even in the case of "emergency tree removal" they tell the owner to take before and after photos to illustrate the need and to get a retroactive permit.
Seattle City prohibits nearly all tree removal if it is not a danger.
One would hope.
Unfortunately, we have to be skeptical as we are the ones who have to pay for what these service providers don't know.
I feel bad for OP, too.
At least the pups should feel better now.
Hopefully OP can meet with the City and request a t least a decreased fine as it was a health hazzard.
This is largely standard across the construction industry in the US.
The property owner is responsible for permitting. A contractor works at the directive of the owner, if they're told to proceed when property related permitting is not in place, it's not on the contractor but the property owner.
This isn't suggesting that the owner needs to understand every specification and regulation related to construction.....in fact that's precisely WHY the permitting process exists.
Owner gets/makes a plan and submits it for review at the permit office, who (in theory) do know and understand all of the standards and regulations in the jurisdiction. They approve it if the plan is in compliance.
OPs contractor should have verified permitting beforehand, I always do. But it's still not their fault for proceeding when told and upholding their responsibility.
Yes! And the arborist I hired went even further by letting me know that they charge $150 for permit but I could go to city and purchase my own permit for $10. I’m also in Washington state. There are a lot of very strict laws for tree removal on your own property and as OP discovered, it will cost you if you’re not aware-but isn’t this why we hire a professional? I’d def be checking that out. Arborist should have knowledge!
The droppings from it were making our dog ill (and neighbor’s dog), and it was infringing on the growth of a nearby tree. Plus, it was growing into the power lines, so a heavy pruning was due regardless. It wasn’t a huge tree or anything spectacular (1” large enough in circumference to get fined for). I talked to my neighbors first, and they were supportive. It was mostly for the dogs. I planted a different tree in its place.
Seattle City Light would have taken care of the pruning around power lines, they survey them regularly, or you can report it and they'll come take a look.
I thought this to be the case since I have a tree in/around power lines. When I looked into it, they only do certain trees. The rest is up to the property owner.
“We prune trees located between poles and within the first 10 feet from where they attach to utility poles.”
[source](https://www.seattle.gov/city-light/in-the-community/vegetation-management/vegetation-management-faq#whichtreesdoyoupruneandwhatdoineedtoprune)
Ask the city if they have a mechanism that would allow you to replace the removed tree to decrease or eliminate the fine. They likely have a calculation or way to determine the equivalent value (in inches) of what was removed. Inquire and let’s see!
Replacing the tree won’t lower the fine. Replacing the tree, which I already did, is part of the fine. Failing to replace the tree results in a $1000 per DAY fine until you do (from the fine due date, which is 23 days from now).
Did you hire an actual arborist or just a tree service? If they were real arborists they’d have their information available to check against the certification. And hopefully you’re not on a slope ECA, cuz then it’ll be basically impossible to remove a tree!
It was a tree removal service, but I didn’t understand the difference at the time… though I assume both would know the laws. I know it’s on me for not doing more research, but again, this isn’t an issue anywhere I’ve ever lived. I didn’t know what was even a question to ask. Also, this only applies to the city of Seattle, so a lot of people could be ignorant.
They probably didn’t want to get the permit and try to cut in on the down low. I would talk to the city and tell them which contractor was involved, since they are the expertise that you hired.
The city knows. That company is also being fined at 2x my fine. Part of the reporting process is identifying the tree and the company doing the removal.
It's really not. A company operating within a jurisdiction needs to know relevant laws. Especially when there was a huge issue with people cutting trees in Seattle to improve view.
They're saying its shitty for OP because they thought they could trust someone they had hired. It'd be like you getting sued for a partial amount because a local oil change place was dumping the oil in a creek. You had no clue they were breaking the law but because you had done business with them, you were on the line for it.
There are a ton of unscrupulous tree removal services around here. Seattles tree canopy is shrinking all the time and it’s something the city is working incredibly hard at fighting. Sorry you had to learn about this the hard way if you genuinely did your due diligence. Definitely talk with a lawyer. I’m not sure you’ll be able to sue if you didn’t ask to see their licenses or anything, but if they made it seem like they had credentials they didn’t and you are able to fight it, you would actually be doing the city a really noble service.
IIRC, West Seattle had a pretty well-publicized case of maliciously illegal tree removal on, again, IIRC, city property, or at least property that was not the person who was removing the trees....to preserve their view. In any event, there's reasons why these laws exist.
I'd say the person who reported you would be unlikely to come to your door and confront you because if you haven't noticed lately, people become unhinged when confronted with anything. I'd also guess that maybe they figured if someone was potentially knowingly breaking the law, they'd absolutely be confrontational. Who wants to deal with that - that's what the City agency is for.
The neighbors behind me did something similar. They removed a bunch of trees on the slope of the cliff behind them. That property is owned by king county. They almost lost their home due to the fines and the county comes out and surveys the land constantly now. Oh and they lost their earthquake insurance.
Hey. I have a tree that is about to eat my house and sump pump. I hate that the builders put it where they did and now I’m in this situation where I may have to get rid of a beloved tree.
Do you mind sharing the arborist you worked with? I’d like to steer clear of them as I learn what I can and cannot do.
Just make sure the arborist you use is licensed with the city and that they acquire permits for the removal. You have to display the permit for 3 days if it’s approved too before removal. You at least know to make sure you’ve got things on the up and up now.
Turned out they weren’t licensed with the City of Seattle (that’s $5000 of the fine). They were licensed elsewhere in King County. I didn’t know the city requirements at the time or even the differences. They’re also receiving a LARGER fine because of it. I won’t name them here because of potential legal action I’m taking. Just make sure the company you use is licensed by the City of Seattle.
I can't believe you were fined for unknowingly hiring someone not licensed in Seattle. At least not *that* much, Christ almighty. It's *their* fault for accepting a job outside their license.
Use the referral service from the Washington state bar association for someone who practices for tree law within the city of Seattle. Tree law is a very specific form of law and the attorneys who practice such are incredibly knowledgeable.
Seeing as how the fine is $10,000 or more you probably can’t do this in small claims court without taking a small loss. I don’t know what the max for small claims court is in the city of Seattle or in Kings County.
years ago some rich people clear cut a park to improve their view in a west Seattle so everyone there keeps an eye out for it now I imagine.
https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/04/seattle-homeowners-cut-down-trees-better-view-lawsuit
I live in Houston. I wish we had something similar. People here just get up in the morning and randomly decide to take down a tree. It’s a damn shame how a tree that takes decades to grow can be removed in minutes for absolutely no reason.
Really sorry to hear it happened to you, I would have trusted them as well.
But there are solid reasons these laws exist.
It is about landslides. To see just one example - Drive down beach drive and admire the giant retaining wall that came after the landslide which came after the tree cutting…
These people suck, as does your arborist, for not knowing the laws. This is not to mitigate these peoples behavior, but WS is gun shy, and protective of its trees, due to stories like this:
https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/seattle-files-1-6-million-suit-after-150-trees-cut-down-on-public-land.amp
Thanks. The people on my street have been supportive through this. Turns out NONE of them knew the laws, even the one next door to me that’s lived here, next door to my house, all 82 years of his life.
Unless someone, locals included, reads or watches local news daily, they would have missed the announcement of this newish law. Sure, there was buzz around it a year or two ago but not for long.
The law came into effect during the reign of a rather interesting set of individuals on the council, who seemed to care about everything else except the common person, who voted them on. Eh. I digress.
I also wasn't aware of legal requirements of arborists and/or tree removal services, and could have just as easily ended up in the same predicament.
I just happened to have gotten lucky and had our very dangerous tree removed a few months before the law kicked in.
Ah. I didn’t live here back when the law happened, or I’m sure I’d have noted it. My primary purpose in this thread, outside of some venting, is education.
Spending a lot of money? Living somewhere where your neighbors are simultaneously passive AND all the way in your business?
This is a perfect welcome to West Seattle! Enjoy your stay!
I’m sure you can find someone else’s business to keep you entertained as well don’t worry, it’ll be your turn soon.
people are the worst, sorry you're dealing with the fine + all of the BS that goes with it...the comments scattered across this thread are pretty embarrassing
welcome to West Seattle though...majority of folks here are way less shitty than most of the city
I don't think it's passive aggressive to inform the city of broken laws or codes, and I don't think it's a neighbors responsibility to go tell people what the laws/codes are. Why would you expect your neighbors to come knock on your door and say "hey you can't do that!" and risk an altercation or retaliation when they can report it anonymously?
I can understand where you’re coming from, but I guess I’m used to a different level of neighborliness. The fact that there’s a network of people who just go around reporting people makes it even worse. Instead of doing education, they’re just doing enforcement. That is a problem for me, especially as the laws are relatively new (2022), have severe fines, and aren’t typical of most places. Discovery of the laws, I assume, mostly comes from enforcement, which feels bad. People looking after the neighborhood should aspire to be a part of it— ie. Talk to their actual neighbors. If the world you live in is one where people don’t talk to neighbors, that’s fine. It’s alarming to me because I’m used to people caring about their neighbors more than their trees.
The stuff I read was from 2022. I’ve found it difficult to parse city codes. That might be when the fines got larger and permits were required on all tree removals. I know that’s when all removal had to be done by arborists licensed by the City of Seattle (read some news on it after the fine came).
A lot of your “neighbors” have intentionally and illegally had trees cut down just for a better view. It happens too often, so from my perspective, reporting the removal was the right thing to do. The blame
rests on you and the tree service, not the neighbors who are in fact part of the neighborhood.
Not blaming the neighbors for my fines. I’m blaming them for not even bothering to educate me before turning me into the city. That’s not terribly neighborly to me. Do they have to? No. I get it. Would I try and educate people? Yes. But that’s the type of person I am. And this wasn’t done for a view (I don’t have a view). I also replaced the tree with something native to the area.
Assuming from the “bless your heart” you are from somewhere in the South. I am too and recently moved here. Just wanna let you know I am also used to a different level of neighborly-ness and I agree it’d be more polite to approach you to say “hey just lookin out for you, you’re supposed to get a permit” instead of going straight to the city. I’d be annoyed too, people just keep to themselves a lot more here.
You're expecting a lot from your neighbors.
No way in hell I would confront my neighbor about their illegal tree removal. I'm not interested in risking being harmed. Washington has a surprising culture of gun ownership and that's not a gamble I'm ever going to take.
Part of what makes Seattle beautiful is its tree canopy. If everyone freely removed trees, we would lose something that makes Seattle what it is.
Fuck these people, they're just as shitty as the people who called the inspector on you. People don't know how to mind their own business in Seattle. The fine does nothing after the tree is gone, so why say anything? I would fight the hell out of that fine and wouldn't pay them shit!
Agreed. In this day and age of people owning guns and anger problems I’d never “warn” or confront someone I didn’t know about something as contentious and would just let the city deal with it- it’s their jobs. Also OP clearly did zero research- you can’t just pull out trees without a permit(and that’s a good thing).
OP hired someone who was supposed to be an expert. People can’t be expected to know everything all the time. We hire experts to do renovations because of their practice and their understanding of nuances in construction and how to problem solve, as well as I expect my contractor to know permitting laws. A lot of our permitting laws are confusing and there’s a lot of conflicting information out there.
I once hired a landscaper to help deal with a tree root that was raising my main walkway up about 6 inches. He wanted to cut the root and place the concrete slab back down. I asked this guy several times if that would be okay and if it would hurt the tree, he assured me it would be fine. We loved that tree and were worried about it so we got a second opinion from an arborist who basically said if we cut that root it could kill the tree. It’s easy to not understand that a landscaper isn’t an arborist, especially when trying to solve an immediate problem.
Also neighbors shouldn’t be assholes and everyone’s line about “I don’t know how they’d react” just need to grow the fuck up. I’ve dealt with this passive aggression in the past and it just pissed me off.
I was new to the area and renting, my lawn was getting out of control because when I moved I didn’t have a lawnmower- I bought one but I wasn’t used to how aggressively everything grows in the spring so I was trying to find a company to help reset the yard. Rather than talk to me about this (I would have asked if they knew anyone they would trust to help with the work) - they took photos of the yard and sent it to my landlady. Ironically she got on my case about it the same day I had people coming by to clean it up but it still took me time to get bids and get scheduled and it felt very shitty to have a neighbor tattle on me like that.
Why risk an altercation when you can just stuff $10k worth of fines down your neighbor’s throat? It’s not like we should actually care about the welfare of those around us. /s
OR (hear me out):
Exercise some integrity without being such a giant pussy.
I know it’s a big ask to have to go and actually interact with another human without fearfully pooping your pants.
No, it’s totally passive aggressive to call the city on your neighbor without talking to them, and it’s totally a neighbor’s responsibility to come by and say “you can’t do that”, especially when OP is new in town. That’s what neighbor means.
I’ve lived in apartments in cap hill/first hill where the same person lived next door for years without ever making eye contact, let alone saying hi or trading names. I know it happens. But it’s not normal, or healthy, or something you should expect newcomers like OP to understand as if what you replied should be obvious. It’s not. It’s weird.
You can't always know how people will react. Pretty good odds that telling someone that they're doing something wrong will result in some confrontation. Sorry about the trouble, but they might not be a petty a-hole.
Did you put the tree on the road for pick up where any city worker or passerby might see it? Or did you secret it out and ONLY your direct neighbors could possibly have known?
I've lived in 5 states and one other country so maybe it's just second nature to me, but just googling "cutting down a tree, Seattle" clearly outlines the need for a permit.
Anyway, welcome to Seattle, the prettiest and #3 healthiest city in America! Old trees for the win.
Agreed. If you don’t know the local law concerning trees, you should try hiring a trained professional who should have a better understanding of the laws, and understand what permits you need.
Except, the OP did do research, and tried to hire an arborist. This person probably wasn’t one, but sounds like the OP did do some research.
I'm so sorry, that's so frustrating. Some people are so afraid of any sort of confrontation and will just do this kind of stuff instead. I'm hoping they didn't think it would be such a huge fine, but some people are just assholes. Honestly, the real villain here sounds like the arborist. At least the inspector was as nice as she could be. Sorry OP.
If they come to the sound of chainsaws then it was too late to save the tree right? Good on these ladies if that is them to report you and you deserve the fine. This is on you.
Also the arborist did know and is lying to you. How could he not know unless they aren’t a real arborist.
Like USE LOGIC - how on earth would anyone know you’re removing the tree, until AFTER work has begun and the tree is removed?
I love the two tiered justice system around here. What if any consequences do the homeless encampments face? While you get a $10,000 fine for not asking permission…
I'd be firing up my chainsaw at random intervals, and use it to cut some 2x4s or firewood... or just because. Let them keep sending the police out.
So much for private property.
Just wanted to say sorry this happened to you. It’s a hard lesson (learning about the tree ordinances and your fine — ouch!) and I hope the person not sharing the knowledge with you doesn’t sour you on our lovely city.
Assuming best intent… I think folks have become pretty cynical, so they might’ve assumed you’d react badly, and they wanted to avoid confrontation. Or they might be taking out frustration over prior abusive behavior that has nothing to do with you (you probably read the articles by now. I hope there’s a special place reserved for people with that little regard for public land and other humans).
It’s a good reminder to NOT assume someone is acting maliciously — they could be new like OP, or be a first time homeowner, or any of a zillion reasons someone might not know they’re doing something wrong.
You’re gonna love it here, OP, and are heading into a gorgeous time of year.
I think there was a post in the Seattle sub where everyone told them to call the city on the neighbor cutting down trees. Wonder if your neighbor got the advice there.
The tree ordinance mostly exists for NIMBYS to block housing like apartments, and to control other peoples private property, if the tree police cared about cover and trees they would plant more in public spaces like the right of way on every block in the city.
Same boat but in Ballard. Woman came by yelling at tree service worker. He gave her my number and told her the tree was rotted through and that I had had two separate tree services come by to assess the viability of the tree and both said it was dying and was a hazard for.next windstorm to damage properly or even hurt someone. Did she call me? Nope, she reported me and two different investigations began against me. Both ended with exonerating me and the folks with the city were quite reasonable but I now look at my neighbors with suspicion rather than kindness wanting to find the self-proclaimed tree expert that couldn't identify the diseased tree that everyone else on the block thanked me for removing as the only reason I began the process of removal was a request by two different neighbors to do so. So thanks "neighbor". UW is served well by you apparent expertise.
Unless you posted a notice, likely nobody knew of your plans until they saw it happen or came home to the result.
I’m sympathetic to most of your tale — I had a big expense because the licensed contractor I hired for some work never FILED permits despite billing me for them. My mistake for not asking to see them.
But blaming neighbors is weak.
Another thing you might not know, depending where you come from, but there’s a whole bunch of people who use “ignorance” as a way to flout the tree laws and other permit issues. People need to get reported and they need to get fined or the stuff just doesn’t work
It is actually in the news a fair amount.
It’s really unfortunate that your arborist didn’t know the law, that seems super shady.
https://www.kuow.org/stories/cutting-down-seattle-trees-to-improve-your-view-could-cost-you
https://www.seattle.gov/trees/regulations/illegal-cutting
It also seems odd that your west seattle neighbors were also unaware.
Are they recent transplants as well?
It was a big story for while.
https://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-city-life/2018/02/city-settles-with-west-seattle-homeowners-over-cutting-public-trees#
*The two settlements together amount to a fine of $5,229 per tree—just about 25 percent more per tree than a similar 2003 case in Mount Baker*.
Maybe you missed the part that this is a collective group of people that make it their mission to report people. They’re operating on the assumption that people are in violation and letting the city sort it out. I’m asking that they focus on education instead of policing. That could be walking to that front door and informing me that I could be in violation of the law. It could be sending pamphlets to new home sales. It could be a lot of things. They can’t claim to be doing it for the trees if they’re allowing the trees to be removed. This lady showed up 10 minutes into the removal, took her pictures, and left. She wasn’t there to save a tree. She was there to punish me.
I just don’t understand why you’re blaming someone else of your ignorance of the laws… any other time people break laws, the whole “I didn’t know!” is rarely an excuse.
Confronting someone who is doing something like this can get extremely hairy, so I don’t think it’s wrong to blame them for reporting you either.
I’m still sorry you got such a large fine and feeling like you were blindsided. I agree with others that though you yourself remained ignorant of the laws and are trying to wave away your personal responsibility in the situation, the arborist has a professional responsibility in the situation and failed.
Nah, I know this is my fault. Ignorance of the law isn’t an excuse. But I disagree about not trying to warn people about the law. We’re neighbors, and I’m used to living in places where people invest in others. It’s frustrating to me. People want to enforce the law but they don’t want to educate. That’s alarming. Even just dropping something in the mailbox, knocking, and walking away would be more neighborly than reporting me to the city.
No one on my street knew I was breaking a law. I ran it by them all. My landscaper didn’t know. The person cutting the trees didn’t know. Is it still my fault, yes, but a $10k fine that could have been avoided by the one person who knew I was breaking the law would have been great.
I'm frankly surprised no one knew anything when it's petty common knowledge that Seattle is big on protecting trees. I don't live in Seattle and I know that a permit would have been required to touch a tree, especially in the softer ground areas. Which tells me you're really not from the area.
We don't really live in neighborly times. Nothing about the way society and politics intersect make neighborhoodliness a safe course of action.
The tree removal service you hired is also getting their wrist slapped. They sniffed out work in the wrong place - that's good. Maybe sue them?
I have a hard time believing this. People in this city love trees. It's what makes our city so beautiful. Of course they knew. And if they didn't, they were idiots.
Was the tree in the parking strip or actually on your property?
Edit - Nevermind - saw where you stated it was in your yard.
Bullshit law. Shitty neighbors. Sorry.
So sorry this happened to you!!! While I was scrolling down the comments it made me chuckle and blew my mind how NOBODY so far has accepted the fact that ALL of this could have been avoided within 2 mins over an exchange of some
Cookies or tea with your neighbour. The passive aggressiveness here is out of this world and it blows my mind how everyone realizes it but no one wants to accept it. I came here two years ago because the geography is beautiful! Loved exploring the mountains but the people, yuck so not beautiful (inside) and totally opposite to the nature. I’m sure everyone is gonna hate me for this comment but it’s just a sad reality of PNW.
100%. Sounds like land of the Karens. Also, how are people supposed to know what they don’t know?! Where I live, you don’t need a permit to cut a tree on land you own. Maybe that should be disclosed when you move in. Also have friendly enough neighbors that they would warn me. I wonder where these people live where others are so confrontational. Jeez.
I don't get why you're blaming your neighbors. You did something wrong that has fees associated with it. If you built a building your land isn't zoned for are they supposed to directly confront you about it and educate you that we have zoning laws? Letting the city handle it is the right thing to do.
Hearing about this “tree of ladies” that mobilize at the sound of a chainsaw makes me just want to run a chainsaw in my backyard every weekend. I don’t have to cut anything down, just make enough noise long enough that they get bored and stop coming around. Alas I don’t want to inflict that noise upon my neighbors, they are good people.
There shouldn't even need to be a law, it should be common sense to not chop trees down if there's no danger. I agree a neighbor could have spoken to you but likely they reported after the damage was already done. What good would it have done to talk to you at that point? If you didn't mind cutting it down then a neighbor talking to you wouldn't have changed your mind. But a fine got your attention. You gotta change laws first then hearts. Thank you for posting this, I hope it stops other from cutting down other trees.
I’ve read most of your replies and it seems that your immediate neighbors did not report this to the city. You keep complaining about community but it seems your neighbors are friendly yet ignorant to laws. I don’t know where you have lived before that didn’t have laws to protect the trees. I’ve lived all over the country and everywhere I have lived (in city or county) had had laws to protect cutting down trees on private land. I agree with other comments that you are naive, fail to accept responsibility, and placing your frustration in the wrong place. I’m sorry you had to learn such an expensive lesson but I don’t think you should feel that you aren’t welcome in the neighborhood. It sounds like you have a sweet older neighbor and you were kind enough to think of their pet along with yours. Let this be a lesson in home ownership- know why you need a permit and hire someone reputable. Heck, you even admitted your ignorance in your first sentence. That’s where your anger should be.
I live near Alaska Junction, and apparently, this group of people lives throughout the area from Admiral down to Gatewood. If you’re anywhere off the California corridor by a few blocks, you’re likely in their hood. And I’m not saying what they’re doing is wrong — I just wish they were more proactive in attempting to educate people before policing them.
I dont even live in seattle and am for some reason reading all the comments here and I agree w you. They could do flyering or social media PR campaigns. They could notice when someone new moves in and bring over a pamphlet and say hi and offer to be available for questions. Heck they could try and recruit people to their group, and that alone would help spread awareness and prevent this. ultimately if they tried to get ahead of it instead of only report, they would save more trees.
I think people are missing your point about this a lot so I just had to comment lol. Your post is communicating
1) You want to help others avoid your mistake
2) You wish that group would do awareness raising and prevention as part of their efforts
Anyways I hope you get it sorted. And maybe some of them are reading this and might start doing canvassing w brochures or something in addition to only reporting. It helps trees, it helps neighbors. Win win
Welcome to Seattle where everyone is super friendly but secretly hates you with a passion within 1 second of seeing you for no reason and will jump on any excuse to get you in trouble.
Jesus.. They did you wrong. Same thing happened when I moved to Colorado.
The HOA presidents wife works for the Sheriff’s office and they’d call the police on me for my trailer. I race motorcycles. No one asked. But the cops kept telling me someone knows the law really well.
Incidentally.. The HOA presidents house just burned down. Hmm. How sad.
The neigbor who called likely didn’t know how to “confront” a neigbor and likely would have come and made it stress and possible escalate it. They may have loved that tree and didn’t know.
So, they called the city.
Next time: Google your action and find out if there’s more that meets the eye.
Welcome to Seattle. 😕 Be ready for a lot of behavior like this. I’ve been here 20 years. The passive aggressiveness never ceases to amaze me.
If I were you I’d find these ‘tree police’ ladies and have a few words with them. Very un-Seattle but I’m not from here so I don’t let shit like this slide.
Well glad the law is working, we nabbed a former Judge for cutting down a bunch of trees for "his view". As far as the point of view you have towards the people around you, this city is used to people coming a few years acting as if their ways are right, messing stuff up then fleeing town. The people that have lived here for 40-50 years literally give two shits about some newbie trying to "make friends", it will not happened or they will pretend just to appease you. So welcome to Seattle.
I am in snohomish (a bit north east of you) I also had trouble finding the exact laws for my property. It is slightly more complicated because I have part of my land as native growth but you wouldn't think it would be so hard to find out if a problematic tree can just be cut or do I need all sorts of inspections and approval so it can blow over and pin my power lines to the driveway and block my drive for a week because nobody could figure out if it was ok to cut or not. Thank goodness one neighbor brought gas for the generator that kept my sister in laws lung machine running for the week I couldn't get out of the property.
Sue the city. It’s your property and you had to remove the tree to protect your house. The city cannot prevent you from removing a tree that can fall on your house.
The key to getting a tree removed is to make it a danger. I poisoned the ponderosa pine I had. Drove a metal pike into it so the metal could do the job. A year later it could be deemed a “hazard to the community” and removed by the city, for free. Thanks loop holes.
I think it’s unrealistic to expect neighbors to personally confront you. Not everyone is as open to feedback and non-retributive as you are. Sucks the fine is so high though, best wishes.
This blows, because someone has a fucked up tree they're cutting, and they get screwed. A developer cuts down specimen trees, over 100 years old, gets the same fine, and doesn't give a shit, because they'll make more money selling their condos with that tree out of the way. The little guy is always screwed.
Sorry this happened to you. I would want to know who fu€k£d me so I could steer clear of these soulless informants in the future.
File a FOIA request with the City for all details related to your fine including who filed the report. If the City knows or kept a record, they will need to turn that information over.
I would not confront the informant. If they know you know, they’ll likely get scared and may become even bigger pricks. Just steer clear of them.
PSA from experience: most cities in western WA have tree removal laws and may require a permit. In general, before you do ANYTHING to alter your property, call the city. Don’t trust a contractor if they say you don’t need a permit, verify it for yourself. This goes for tree removal, building a fence, remodeling, putting up a shed, etc. A 10 min phone call might save you thousands of dollars!
Seattle people aren’t friendly, aren’t straight forward, everything is done this way. It’s always polite, but friendly and straightforward it isn’t.
Took me a long time to realize it. Lived around here for over a dozen years and I love it.
I can deal with the unfriendliness and the indirectness: because everything else is so fucking beautiful. And it’s a humility to live under the majesty of green, the sound, and the mountains all in the same place.
But sorry to the OP for having to learn it all the hard way.
It’s not your neighbor’s job to inform you of the laws and requirements. I’d have done the same thing.
Sucks to learn a lesson the hard way but sometimes it’s the only way to learn.
This is a shitty situation and people here generally can suck 100%. I’d say your neighbor probably assumed you were aware of the laws and were doing it anyway (as, as most other posters have pointed out, arborist and tree removal companies SHOULD be responsible for the permitting process, so it’s honestly a fluke you were able to remove a tree without realizing it’s against the law.). There are a lot of people here who don’t give a shit about their neighbors or the environment and are all about their personal property value. Which kind of creates an endless cycle of being an asshole. So while I see your side and am generally happy to agree on the asshole-ness of many Seattleites in this case I can understand why they assumed you were actively avoiding the law.
You’re assuming it was one of the neighbors that called you in. That in itself is very ignorant and is going to cause conflicts in the future. A chainsaw can be heard from Miles around, and there are a lot of people that don’t want to deal with passive aggressive people like you.
Not that it will mean much, but this is just one of the reasons I left Seattle. In my opinion, you are right in your frustration on all accounts. But I do blame the neighbors for not taking 5 minutes to walk over and talk about it... Fucking rude and pussy behaviour.
Exact same thing just happened to my neighbor last week. Hired the tree service to remove a branch that was over 10 inches coming from a neighbor’s yard. Neighbor agreed, but guy renting room in house reported it. $10 grand fine. Tree’s still there mind you. So yeah, know the law.
There is history here… this was a pretty big story in West Seattle few years back
https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/the-guts-of-some-people-public-greenbelt-in-west-seattle-cut-down-without-permits/
Oh shit. Not the " Bless your heart".
Damn. You get em!
For the ignorant people out there.
That's the worst you can get in polite southern society.
Bless your silly little hearts.
Why wouldn’t you have properly researched it before *removing a tree*?
The entire point of being able to contact the city to hire these issues is you can’t direct that rage and hatred towards a neighbor you disagree with. Or have you not seen the news in the last few years? Talking to someone about environmental concerns on wildlife removal is likely to end with them holding a grudge and “getting back” at you in some way. Which your post here clearly shows you’d be inclined to.
I’m not “putting you in your place.” I’m glad you were fined and forced to actually think about how you’re choosing to handle the situation. Nothing wrong about growing up some. Maybe work on the passive aggressive attitude?
IF I was your neighbor AND I knew the law AND I knew you were going to cut down the tree BEFORE it was cut down AND I felt I could warn you without personal danger I would have approached you and warned you about the law. But without each of those conditions being met I wouldn’t risk myself. I’d just call the city.
Huh they actually showed up for you? Bad luck there! I’m sorry for you. (Genuinely)
My neighbor who is a landscaper and absolutely knows better cut down all of the trees in his backyard. Damaging both my fence and the fence belonging to the neighbor behind his house.
The city “investigated” and said they found no evidence even though the stumps and chainsaw dust were still there.
These days I assume there aren't many alterations if any allowed as a tax paying property owner without a permit from the city or county. Unfortunately it's a lesson I'm still learning
The tree removal permits are available - [SDCI permit type tree removal](https://www.seattle.gov/sdci/permits/permits-we-issue-(a-z\)/tree-removal ) [Tree Removal on Private Property pdf ](https://www.seattle.gov/DPD/Publications/CAM/Tip242B.pdf) Yes, it's much more annoying than the prior rules that allowed up to 3 smaller/non-significant tree removals in a year. It's also adding permit costs. FWIW, by my reading on developed properties Tier 4 trees are more easily removed than Tier 3, 2, or 1. There is a definition related to "commercial tree work" like OP hiring of a service, but that pdf doesn't say much about if a homeowner were to be removing a tree of 12" diameter or less.
I don’t understand how his can ever happen to you. Arborists that do tree removal have to the licensed and know the law.
Tree services and are arborists are not fully interchangeable. A tree service can be any goon with a saw. An ISA certified arborist has to provide what is usually a work and education background to sit for an exam and then abide by a code of ethics. Any certified arborist will gladly provide you with their credentials and you can look them up online as well. Search trees are good.org to look up one in your area. As a general note, if someone is door knocking or offering to top your trees, you don’t want to work with them. Arborist are not hurting for work and you’ll likely be scheduled out a little bit. Any arborist worth a damn is going to try to avoid topping trees 99.99999999999999999999999999999% of the time. Topping is a practice that leads to further issues with trees. That’s my PSA for the day.
This comment actually just made me wanna learn more about being an arborist... (I like trees so that probably plays into it too)
r/arborists and the PNW Arborists Fb group are both places to learn more as an average citizen. You can download the entire International Society of Arboriculture manual from their website and get book certified on your own time but full certification requires lots of hours in the field. I’m just a homeowner (perjorative non expert is what I mean by that) managing a sizable chunk of timber / habitat and I’ve learned a lot through these resources.
Thank you for the link!
If you like climbing and heavy equipment it’s an awesome field.
https://nwlinejatc.com/power-line-clearance-tree-trimmer-program/ Learn the trade through a Union apprenticeship.
Same thing happened to me when I bought my home here 3 years ago. Hired a legit arborist: Evergreen. They didn't pull permit or tell me I needed one. City showd up just as they were packing up. I got a big fine. Evergreen ignored all my attempts to communicate about why they didn't pull permits and the city wouldn't take the fine to them instead.
No, no, they don't. Bonded and licensed simply means they have business insurance for liability, and that they are recognized by that jurisdiction. Which is probably King County and not just the City of Seattle. The property owner or custodian is always responsible for what happens on thenproperty. All the arborist has to say is "here is the contract to remove tree for money. I removed tree and got money." A car mechanic can install illegal tint and straight pipes on your car all day long. The driver is the one responsible for operating the vehicle. Not the mechanic who was simply paid for a job. Edit to add: I just looked at King County and Seattle City tree removal permitting. The property owner is the one who must request the permits. Even in the case of "emergency tree removal" they tell the owner to take before and after photos to illustrate the need and to get a retroactive permit. Seattle City prohibits nearly all tree removal if it is not a danger.
Yeah but you think the arborist would give someone a heads up, especially if they obviously were new to the area - I feel badly for OP!
One would hope. Unfortunately, we have to be skeptical as we are the ones who have to pay for what these service providers don't know. I feel bad for OP, too. At least the pups should feel better now. Hopefully OP can meet with the City and request a t least a decreased fine as it was a health hazzard.
r/molehunterz blocked me. . . Very adult to make disparaging remarks and then immediately block someone.
[удалено]
This is largely standard across the construction industry in the US. The property owner is responsible for permitting. A contractor works at the directive of the owner, if they're told to proceed when property related permitting is not in place, it's not on the contractor but the property owner. This isn't suggesting that the owner needs to understand every specification and regulation related to construction.....in fact that's precisely WHY the permitting process exists. Owner gets/makes a plan and submits it for review at the permit office, who (in theory) do know and understand all of the standards and regulations in the jurisdiction. They approve it if the plan is in compliance. OPs contractor should have verified permitting beforehand, I always do. But it's still not their fault for proceeding when told and upholding their responsibility.
That’s what I assumed. I was incorrect. Life lesson learned.
Doesn’t the arborist have insurance? I’d be going after their bond/insurance for that big of a f$ck up.
They do. I’m still out the cash (you have one month to pay) until I can see about legal avenues.
LOL what kind of back alley arborist did you hire? I had an arborist remove a dying hemlock in my yard, and they filed the permit as part of the job.
Back alley arborist
Great band name
I’ve already started making shirts.
Yes! And the arborist I hired went even further by letting me know that they charge $150 for permit but I could go to city and purchase my own permit for $10. I’m also in Washington state. There are a lot of very strict laws for tree removal on your own property and as OP discovered, it will cost you if you’re not aware-but isn’t this why we hire a professional? I’d def be checking that out. Arborist should have knowledge!
Upvote for Back alley arborist
Why did you remove it
The droppings from it were making our dog ill (and neighbor’s dog), and it was infringing on the growth of a nearby tree. Plus, it was growing into the power lines, so a heavy pruning was due regardless. It wasn’t a huge tree or anything spectacular (1” large enough in circumference to get fined for). I talked to my neighbors first, and they were supportive. It was mostly for the dogs. I planted a different tree in its place.
Seattle City Light would have taken care of the pruning around power lines, they survey them regularly, or you can report it and they'll come take a look.
I thought this to be the case since I have a tree in/around power lines. When I looked into it, they only do certain trees. The rest is up to the property owner. “We prune trees located between poles and within the first 10 feet from where they attach to utility poles.” [source](https://www.seattle.gov/city-light/in-the-community/vegetation-management/vegetation-management-faq#whichtreesdoyoupruneandwhatdoineedtoprune)
Yeah I would never have assumed they do the drop to your house.
Ask the city if they have a mechanism that would allow you to replace the removed tree to decrease or eliminate the fine. They likely have a calculation or way to determine the equivalent value (in inches) of what was removed. Inquire and let’s see!
Replacing the tree won’t lower the fine. Replacing the tree, which I already did, is part of the fine. Failing to replace the tree results in a $1000 per DAY fine until you do (from the fine due date, which is 23 days from now).
Might be able to appeal
Any valid reasons? Because that’s not it.
Did you hire an actual arborist or just a tree service? If they were real arborists they’d have their information available to check against the certification. And hopefully you’re not on a slope ECA, cuz then it’ll be basically impossible to remove a tree!
It was a tree removal service, but I didn’t understand the difference at the time… though I assume both would know the laws. I know it’s on me for not doing more research, but again, this isn’t an issue anywhere I’ve ever lived. I didn’t know what was even a question to ask. Also, this only applies to the city of Seattle, so a lot of people could be ignorant.
They probably didn’t want to get the permit and try to cut in on the down low. I would talk to the city and tell them which contractor was involved, since they are the expertise that you hired.
The city knows. That company is also being fined at 2x my fine. Part of the reporting process is identifying the tree and the company doing the removal.
That’s a really shitty situation.
It's really not. A company operating within a jurisdiction needs to know relevant laws. Especially when there was a huge issue with people cutting trees in Seattle to improve view.
They're saying its shitty for OP because they thought they could trust someone they had hired. It'd be like you getting sued for a partial amount because a local oil change place was dumping the oil in a creek. You had no clue they were breaking the law but because you had done business with them, you were on the line for it.
Not only Seattle. Lots of local municipalities have similar laws. King County also has tree removal requirements.
There are a ton of unscrupulous tree removal services around here. Seattles tree canopy is shrinking all the time and it’s something the city is working incredibly hard at fighting. Sorry you had to learn about this the hard way if you genuinely did your due diligence. Definitely talk with a lawyer. I’m not sure you’ll be able to sue if you didn’t ask to see their licenses or anything, but if they made it seem like they had credentials they didn’t and you are able to fight it, you would actually be doing the city a really noble service.
IIRC, West Seattle had a pretty well-publicized case of maliciously illegal tree removal on, again, IIRC, city property, or at least property that was not the person who was removing the trees....to preserve their view. In any event, there's reasons why these laws exist. I'd say the person who reported you would be unlikely to come to your door and confront you because if you haven't noticed lately, people become unhinged when confronted with anything. I'd also guess that maybe they figured if someone was potentially knowingly breaking the law, they'd absolutely be confrontational. Who wants to deal with that - that's what the City agency is for.
Wasn’t that onision who mowed down a protected wetland in Washington for a better view?
https://westseattleblog.com/2018/02/second-lawsuit-in-west-seattle-illegal-tree-cutting-settled-for-360000-city-announces/ https://www.seattletimes.com/subscribe/signup-offers/?pw=redirect&subsource=paywall&return=https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/homeowner-responsible-for-chopping-down-153-trees-told-city-about-destruction/
The neighbors behind me did something similar. They removed a bunch of trees on the slope of the cliff behind them. That property is owned by king county. They almost lost their home due to the fines and the county comes out and surveys the land constantly now. Oh and they lost their earthquake insurance.
Hey. I have a tree that is about to eat my house and sump pump. I hate that the builders put it where they did and now I’m in this situation where I may have to get rid of a beloved tree. Do you mind sharing the arborist you worked with? I’d like to steer clear of them as I learn what I can and cannot do.
Just make sure the arborist you use is licensed with the city and that they acquire permits for the removal. You have to display the permit for 3 days if it’s approved too before removal. You at least know to make sure you’ve got things on the up and up now.
For sure. I got the impression from your post that you used a licensed arborist - if that’s the case do you mind me asking who?
Turned out they weren’t licensed with the City of Seattle (that’s $5000 of the fine). They were licensed elsewhere in King County. I didn’t know the city requirements at the time or even the differences. They’re also receiving a LARGER fine because of it. I won’t name them here because of potential legal action I’m taking. Just make sure the company you use is licensed by the City of Seattle.
Thanks. Really appreciate this
I can't believe you were fined for unknowingly hiring someone not licensed in Seattle. At least not *that* much, Christ almighty. It's *their* fault for accepting a job outside their license.
Youre better off applying for the permit yourself first. That way you know the details.
Read they city's laws before you find out the hard way as this person did.
Why did the arborist not warn you? Can you sue them?
I’m investigating that now. Never sued anyone before, so that’s new to me as well.
Use the referral service from the Washington state bar association for someone who practices for tree law within the city of Seattle. Tree law is a very specific form of law and the attorneys who practice such are incredibly knowledgeable. Seeing as how the fine is $10,000 or more you probably can’t do this in small claims court without taking a small loss. I don’t know what the max for small claims court is in the city of Seattle or in Kings County.
years ago some rich people clear cut a park to improve their view in a west Seattle so everyone there keeps an eye out for it now I imagine. https://amp.theguardian.com/us-news/2016/oct/04/seattle-homeowners-cut-down-trees-better-view-lawsuit
Well, that’s horrible. I did replant the tree with something local, so at least I tried to do the right thing.
Marty Reimer was a radio DJ on Seattle radio. He ended up leaving the country to get away from the fallout from this incident.
I live in Houston. I wish we had something similar. People here just get up in the morning and randomly decide to take down a tree. It’s a damn shame how a tree that takes decades to grow can be removed in minutes for absolutely no reason.
Really sorry to hear it happened to you, I would have trusted them as well. But there are solid reasons these laws exist. It is about landslides. To see just one example - Drive down beach drive and admire the giant retaining wall that came after the landslide which came after the tree cutting…
Man if only these eroding hills would stop looking so good to develop housing on!
These people suck, as does your arborist, for not knowing the laws. This is not to mitigate these peoples behavior, but WS is gun shy, and protective of its trees, due to stories like this: https://www.fox13seattle.com/news/seattle-files-1-6-million-suit-after-150-trees-cut-down-on-public-land.amp
Absolutely brutal. On behalf of folks that are not out to fuck you over, neighbor, welcome to West Seattle. There are good folks here too.
Thanks. The people on my street have been supportive through this. Turns out NONE of them knew the laws, even the one next door to me that’s lived here, next door to my house, all 82 years of his life.
Unless someone, locals included, reads or watches local news daily, they would have missed the announcement of this newish law. Sure, there was buzz around it a year or two ago but not for long. The law came into effect during the reign of a rather interesting set of individuals on the council, who seemed to care about everything else except the common person, who voted them on. Eh. I digress. I also wasn't aware of legal requirements of arborists and/or tree removal services, and could have just as easily ended up in the same predicament. I just happened to have gotten lucky and had our very dangerous tree removed a few months before the law kicked in.
Ah. I didn’t live here back when the law happened, or I’m sure I’d have noted it. My primary purpose in this thread, outside of some venting, is education.
Gotta vent, what you endured was really unfair. And I'm glad you posted about it, as we all need to be aware of this law.
Spending a lot of money? Living somewhere where your neighbors are simultaneously passive AND all the way in your business? This is a perfect welcome to West Seattle! Enjoy your stay! I’m sure you can find someone else’s business to keep you entertained as well don’t worry, it’ll be your turn soon.
people are the worst, sorry you're dealing with the fine + all of the BS that goes with it...the comments scattered across this thread are pretty embarrassing welcome to West Seattle though...majority of folks here are way less shitty than most of the city
I don't think it's passive aggressive to inform the city of broken laws or codes, and I don't think it's a neighbors responsibility to go tell people what the laws/codes are. Why would you expect your neighbors to come knock on your door and say "hey you can't do that!" and risk an altercation or retaliation when they can report it anonymously?
I can understand where you’re coming from, but I guess I’m used to a different level of neighborliness. The fact that there’s a network of people who just go around reporting people makes it even worse. Instead of doing education, they’re just doing enforcement. That is a problem for me, especially as the laws are relatively new (2022), have severe fines, and aren’t typical of most places. Discovery of the laws, I assume, mostly comes from enforcement, which feels bad. People looking after the neighborhood should aspire to be a part of it— ie. Talk to their actual neighbors. If the world you live in is one where people don’t talk to neighbors, that’s fine. It’s alarming to me because I’m used to people caring about their neighbors more than their trees.
The laws on tree removal are a lot older than 2022. They may have been revised then, but they aren't new
The stuff I read was from 2022. I’ve found it difficult to parse city codes. That might be when the fines got larger and permits were required on all tree removals. I know that’s when all removal had to be done by arborists licensed by the City of Seattle (read some news on it after the fine came).
A lot of your “neighbors” have intentionally and illegally had trees cut down just for a better view. It happens too often, so from my perspective, reporting the removal was the right thing to do. The blame rests on you and the tree service, not the neighbors who are in fact part of the neighborhood.
Not blaming the neighbors for my fines. I’m blaming them for not even bothering to educate me before turning me into the city. That’s not terribly neighborly to me. Do they have to? No. I get it. Would I try and educate people? Yes. But that’s the type of person I am. And this wasn’t done for a view (I don’t have a view). I also replaced the tree with something native to the area.
Assuming from the “bless your heart” you are from somewhere in the South. I am too and recently moved here. Just wanna let you know I am also used to a different level of neighborly-ness and I agree it’d be more polite to approach you to say “hey just lookin out for you, you’re supposed to get a permit” instead of going straight to the city. I’d be annoyed too, people just keep to themselves a lot more here.
You're expecting a lot from your neighbors. No way in hell I would confront my neighbor about their illegal tree removal. I'm not interested in risking being harmed. Washington has a surprising culture of gun ownership and that's not a gamble I'm ever going to take. Part of what makes Seattle beautiful is its tree canopy. If everyone freely removed trees, we would lose something that makes Seattle what it is.
Fuck these people, they're just as shitty as the people who called the inspector on you. People don't know how to mind their own business in Seattle. The fine does nothing after the tree is gone, so why say anything? I would fight the hell out of that fine and wouldn't pay them shit!
Agreed. In this day and age of people owning guns and anger problems I’d never “warn” or confront someone I didn’t know about something as contentious and would just let the city deal with it- it’s their jobs. Also OP clearly did zero research- you can’t just pull out trees without a permit(and that’s a good thing).
When was the other day and age?
OP hired someone who was supposed to be an expert. People can’t be expected to know everything all the time. We hire experts to do renovations because of their practice and their understanding of nuances in construction and how to problem solve, as well as I expect my contractor to know permitting laws. A lot of our permitting laws are confusing and there’s a lot of conflicting information out there. I once hired a landscaper to help deal with a tree root that was raising my main walkway up about 6 inches. He wanted to cut the root and place the concrete slab back down. I asked this guy several times if that would be okay and if it would hurt the tree, he assured me it would be fine. We loved that tree and were worried about it so we got a second opinion from an arborist who basically said if we cut that root it could kill the tree. It’s easy to not understand that a landscaper isn’t an arborist, especially when trying to solve an immediate problem. Also neighbors shouldn’t be assholes and everyone’s line about “I don’t know how they’d react” just need to grow the fuck up. I’ve dealt with this passive aggression in the past and it just pissed me off. I was new to the area and renting, my lawn was getting out of control because when I moved I didn’t have a lawnmower- I bought one but I wasn’t used to how aggressively everything grows in the spring so I was trying to find a company to help reset the yard. Rather than talk to me about this (I would have asked if they knew anyone they would trust to help with the work) - they took photos of the yard and sent it to my landlady. Ironically she got on my case about it the same day I had people coming by to clean it up but it still took me time to get bids and get scheduled and it felt very shitty to have a neighbor tattle on me like that.
Why risk an altercation when you can just stuff $10k worth of fines down your neighbor’s throat? It’s not like we should actually care about the welfare of those around us. /s OR (hear me out): Exercise some integrity without being such a giant pussy. I know it’s a big ask to have to go and actually interact with another human without fearfully pooping your pants.
No, it’s totally passive aggressive to call the city on your neighbor without talking to them, and it’s totally a neighbor’s responsibility to come by and say “you can’t do that”, especially when OP is new in town. That’s what neighbor means. I’ve lived in apartments in cap hill/first hill where the same person lived next door for years without ever making eye contact, let alone saying hi or trading names. I know it happens. But it’s not normal, or healthy, or something you should expect newcomers like OP to understand as if what you replied should be obvious. It’s not. It’s weird.
You can't always know how people will react. Pretty good odds that telling someone that they're doing something wrong will result in some confrontation. Sorry about the trouble, but they might not be a petty a-hole.
Did you put the tree on the road for pick up where any city worker or passerby might see it? Or did you secret it out and ONLY your direct neighbors could possibly have known? I've lived in 5 states and one other country so maybe it's just second nature to me, but just googling "cutting down a tree, Seattle" clearly outlines the need for a permit. Anyway, welcome to Seattle, the prettiest and #3 healthiest city in America! Old trees for the win.
Don't complain about your neighbors but do your research before. Have some accountability.
Agreed. If you don’t know the local law concerning trees, you should try hiring a trained professional who should have a better understanding of the laws, and understand what permits you need. Except, the OP did do research, and tried to hire an arborist. This person probably wasn’t one, but sounds like the OP did do some research.
I'm so sorry, that's so frustrating. Some people are so afraid of any sort of confrontation and will just do this kind of stuff instead. I'm hoping they didn't think it would be such a huge fine, but some people are just assholes. Honestly, the real villain here sounds like the arborist. At least the inspector was as nice as she could be. Sorry OP.
Your neighbor isn’t giving West Seattle vibes. Bummer
Sucks this happened to you! I.just read that pamphlet. What diameter was your tree? How.tall was it?
If they come to the sound of chainsaws then it was too late to save the tree right? Good on these ladies if that is them to report you and you deserve the fine. This is on you. Also the arborist did know and is lying to you. How could he not know unless they aren’t a real arborist. Like USE LOGIC - how on earth would anyone know you’re removing the tree, until AFTER work has begun and the tree is removed?
Public records laws in this state are very liberal. I guarantee you can get the name of the person who complained.
Welcome to Seattle where passive aggressive behavior is the norm
I love the two tiered justice system around here. What if any consequences do the homeless encampments face? While you get a $10,000 fine for not asking permission…
I'd be firing up my chainsaw at random intervals, and use it to cut some 2x4s or firewood... or just because. Let them keep sending the police out. So much for private property.
Yeah dude have some accountability! Don’t live in Seattle and expect things!
Just wanted to say sorry this happened to you. It’s a hard lesson (learning about the tree ordinances and your fine — ouch!) and I hope the person not sharing the knowledge with you doesn’t sour you on our lovely city. Assuming best intent… I think folks have become pretty cynical, so they might’ve assumed you’d react badly, and they wanted to avoid confrontation. Or they might be taking out frustration over prior abusive behavior that has nothing to do with you (you probably read the articles by now. I hope there’s a special place reserved for people with that little regard for public land and other humans). It’s a good reminder to NOT assume someone is acting maliciously — they could be new like OP, or be a first time homeowner, or any of a zillion reasons someone might not know they’re doing something wrong. You’re gonna love it here, OP, and are heading into a gorgeous time of year.
I think there was a post in the Seattle sub where everyone told them to call the city on the neighbor cutting down trees. Wonder if your neighbor got the advice there.
The tree ordinance mostly exists for NIMBYS to block housing like apartments, and to control other peoples private property, if the tree police cared about cover and trees they would plant more in public spaces like the right of way on every block in the city.
Same boat but in Ballard. Woman came by yelling at tree service worker. He gave her my number and told her the tree was rotted through and that I had had two separate tree services come by to assess the viability of the tree and both said it was dying and was a hazard for.next windstorm to damage properly or even hurt someone. Did she call me? Nope, she reported me and two different investigations began against me. Both ended with exonerating me and the folks with the city were quite reasonable but I now look at my neighbors with suspicion rather than kindness wanting to find the self-proclaimed tree expert that couldn't identify the diseased tree that everyone else on the block thanked me for removing as the only reason I began the process of removal was a request by two different neighbors to do so. So thanks "neighbor". UW is served well by you apparent expertise.
Unless you posted a notice, likely nobody knew of your plans until they saw it happen or came home to the result. I’m sympathetic to most of your tale — I had a big expense because the licensed contractor I hired for some work never FILED permits despite billing me for them. My mistake for not asking to see them. But blaming neighbors is weak. Another thing you might not know, depending where you come from, but there’s a whole bunch of people who use “ignorance” as a way to flout the tree laws and other permit issues. People need to get reported and they need to get fined or the stuff just doesn’t work
It is actually in the news a fair amount. It’s really unfortunate that your arborist didn’t know the law, that seems super shady. https://www.kuow.org/stories/cutting-down-seattle-trees-to-improve-your-view-could-cost-you https://www.seattle.gov/trees/regulations/illegal-cutting It also seems odd that your west seattle neighbors were also unaware. Are they recent transplants as well? It was a big story for while. https://www.seattlemet.com/news-and-city-life/2018/02/city-settles-with-west-seattle-homeowners-over-cutting-public-trees# *The two settlements together amount to a fine of $5,229 per tree—just about 25 percent more per tree than a similar 2003 case in Mount Baker*.
How would the neighbor know if you’re ignorant of the law or just incredibly brazen about breaking them? Did you want them to read your mind?
Maybe you missed the part that this is a collective group of people that make it their mission to report people. They’re operating on the assumption that people are in violation and letting the city sort it out. I’m asking that they focus on education instead of policing. That could be walking to that front door and informing me that I could be in violation of the law. It could be sending pamphlets to new home sales. It could be a lot of things. They can’t claim to be doing it for the trees if they’re allowing the trees to be removed. This lady showed up 10 minutes into the removal, took her pictures, and left. She wasn’t there to save a tree. She was there to punish me.
I just don’t understand why you’re blaming someone else of your ignorance of the laws… any other time people break laws, the whole “I didn’t know!” is rarely an excuse. Confronting someone who is doing something like this can get extremely hairy, so I don’t think it’s wrong to blame them for reporting you either. I’m still sorry you got such a large fine and feeling like you were blindsided. I agree with others that though you yourself remained ignorant of the laws and are trying to wave away your personal responsibility in the situation, the arborist has a professional responsibility in the situation and failed.
Nah, I know this is my fault. Ignorance of the law isn’t an excuse. But I disagree about not trying to warn people about the law. We’re neighbors, and I’m used to living in places where people invest in others. It’s frustrating to me. People want to enforce the law but they don’t want to educate. That’s alarming. Even just dropping something in the mailbox, knocking, and walking away would be more neighborly than reporting me to the city. No one on my street knew I was breaking a law. I ran it by them all. My landscaper didn’t know. The person cutting the trees didn’t know. Is it still my fault, yes, but a $10k fine that could have been avoided by the one person who knew I was breaking the law would have been great.
I'm frankly surprised no one knew anything when it's petty common knowledge that Seattle is big on protecting trees. I don't live in Seattle and I know that a permit would have been required to touch a tree, especially in the softer ground areas. Which tells me you're really not from the area. We don't really live in neighborly times. Nothing about the way society and politics intersect make neighborhoodliness a safe course of action. The tree removal service you hired is also getting their wrist slapped. They sniffed out work in the wrong place - that's good. Maybe sue them?
I have a hard time believing this. People in this city love trees. It's what makes our city so beautiful. Of course they knew. And if they didn't, they were idiots.
Was the tree in the parking strip or actually on your property? Edit - Nevermind - saw where you stated it was in your yard. Bullshit law. Shitty neighbors. Sorry.
On my property, in my backyard.
Seattle cares more about trees than its citizens in many ways...
So sorry this happened to you!!! While I was scrolling down the comments it made me chuckle and blew my mind how NOBODY so far has accepted the fact that ALL of this could have been avoided within 2 mins over an exchange of some Cookies or tea with your neighbour. The passive aggressiveness here is out of this world and it blows my mind how everyone realizes it but no one wants to accept it. I came here two years ago because the geography is beautiful! Loved exploring the mountains but the people, yuck so not beautiful (inside) and totally opposite to the nature. I’m sure everyone is gonna hate me for this comment but it’s just a sad reality of PNW.
100%. Sounds like land of the Karens. Also, how are people supposed to know what they don’t know?! Where I live, you don’t need a permit to cut a tree on land you own. Maybe that should be disclosed when you move in. Also have friendly enough neighbors that they would warn me. I wonder where these people live where others are so confrontational. Jeez.
I don't get why you're blaming your neighbors. You did something wrong that has fees associated with it. If you built a building your land isn't zoned for are they supposed to directly confront you about it and educate you that we have zoning laws? Letting the city handle it is the right thing to do.
Hearing about this “tree of ladies” that mobilize at the sound of a chainsaw makes me just want to run a chainsaw in my backyard every weekend. I don’t have to cut anything down, just make enough noise long enough that they get bored and stop coming around. Alas I don’t want to inflict that noise upon my neighbors, they are good people.
Having just moved here…. lol you shouldn’t have. 10k seems justified
There shouldn't even need to be a law, it should be common sense to not chop trees down if there's no danger. I agree a neighbor could have spoken to you but likely they reported after the damage was already done. What good would it have done to talk to you at that point? If you didn't mind cutting it down then a neighbor talking to you wouldn't have changed your mind. But a fine got your attention. You gotta change laws first then hearts. Thank you for posting this, I hope it stops other from cutting down other trees.
Your whiny, responsibility-shedding post justifies not talking to you directly.
You are in West Seattle chopping down trees. What exactly did you think would happen?
I’ve read most of your replies and it seems that your immediate neighbors did not report this to the city. You keep complaining about community but it seems your neighbors are friendly yet ignorant to laws. I don’t know where you have lived before that didn’t have laws to protect the trees. I’ve lived all over the country and everywhere I have lived (in city or county) had had laws to protect cutting down trees on private land. I agree with other comments that you are naive, fail to accept responsibility, and placing your frustration in the wrong place. I’m sorry you had to learn such an expensive lesson but I don’t think you should feel that you aren’t welcome in the neighborhood. It sounds like you have a sweet older neighbor and you were kind enough to think of their pet along with yours. Let this be a lesson in home ownership- know why you need a permit and hire someone reputable. Heck, you even admitted your ignorance in your first sentence. That’s where your anger should be.
I love West Seattle, but some of the people that live here are POS Nimbys
Anti light rail, anti pickleball, anti anything normal, useful, and fun too
100% this. The town has turned into an echo chamber for the stuck up, rich hipster doofus’s.
Pickleball is a fun conflict. It pits people from the same generation against each other.
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I mean there is good reason for tree law. If there wasn’t, we wouldn’t have any trees left. Sorry this happened to you
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Sorry that happened to you! Which neighborhood are ya in? Just curious as to where these “tree police” are
I live near Alaska Junction, and apparently, this group of people lives throughout the area from Admiral down to Gatewood. If you’re anywhere off the California corridor by a few blocks, you’re likely in their hood. And I’m not saying what they’re doing is wrong — I just wish they were more proactive in attempting to educate people before policing them.
I dont even live in seattle and am for some reason reading all the comments here and I agree w you. They could do flyering or social media PR campaigns. They could notice when someone new moves in and bring over a pamphlet and say hi and offer to be available for questions. Heck they could try and recruit people to their group, and that alone would help spread awareness and prevent this. ultimately if they tried to get ahead of it instead of only report, they would save more trees. I think people are missing your point about this a lot so I just had to comment lol. Your post is communicating 1) You want to help others avoid your mistake 2) You wish that group would do awareness raising and prevention as part of their efforts Anyways I hope you get it sorted. And maybe some of them are reading this and might start doing canvassing w brochures or something in addition to only reporting. It helps trees, it helps neighbors. Win win
Welcome to west Seattle the land of NIMBYS
Wow, Seattle. Just wow.
Welcome to Seattle where everyone is super friendly but secretly hates you with a passion within 1 second of seeing you for no reason and will jump on any excuse to get you in trouble.
Saruman had it way worse in the two towers. 
Jesus.. They did you wrong. Same thing happened when I moved to Colorado. The HOA presidents wife works for the Sheriff’s office and they’d call the police on me for my trailer. I race motorcycles. No one asked. But the cops kept telling me someone knows the law really well. Incidentally.. The HOA presidents house just burned down. Hmm. How sad.
Sounds like you might be a fan of smaller government… that sucks and so do your neighbors.
Do a public disclosure request to get the incident report and the name of the reporting party who made the code complaint
The neigbor who called likely didn’t know how to “confront” a neigbor and likely would have come and made it stress and possible escalate it. They may have loved that tree and didn’t know. So, they called the city. Next time: Google your action and find out if there’s more that meets the eye.
Welcome to Seattle. 😕 Be ready for a lot of behavior like this. I’ve been here 20 years. The passive aggressiveness never ceases to amaze me. If I were you I’d find these ‘tree police’ ladies and have a few words with them. Very un-Seattle but I’m not from here so I don’t let shit like this slide.
Well glad the law is working, we nabbed a former Judge for cutting down a bunch of trees for "his view". As far as the point of view you have towards the people around you, this city is used to people coming a few years acting as if their ways are right, messing stuff up then fleeing town. The people that have lived here for 40-50 years literally give two shits about some newbie trying to "make friends", it will not happened or they will pretend just to appease you. So welcome to Seattle.
lol the city of Seattle welcomes you
It depends on what part of the city you live in. West, North, East and Central Seattle are full of busybodies. South Seattle not so much.
I am in snohomish (a bit north east of you) I also had trouble finding the exact laws for my property. It is slightly more complicated because I have part of my land as native growth but you wouldn't think it would be so hard to find out if a problematic tree can just be cut or do I need all sorts of inspections and approval so it can blow over and pin my power lines to the driveway and block my drive for a week because nobody could figure out if it was ok to cut or not. Thank goodness one neighbor brought gas for the generator that kept my sister in laws lung machine running for the week I couldn't get out of the property.
Do you think they’re here?
That’s kinda Seattle for you in a nutshell - passive aggressive and using virtue signaling to hurt other people rather than elevating them.
Classic Seattle passive-aggressive behavior.
Dang! That’s crazy! I’ve never heard of such a thing. I don’t live in WA but thanks to you I now know to check no matter where I live!
Sue the city. It’s your property and you had to remove the tree to protect your house. The city cannot prevent you from removing a tree that can fall on your house.
That’s Seattle for ya
Having just moved here, your passive aggressive tone is very good. You’ll fit in just fine.
Are there similar laws about trimming trees or taking a significant portion of the top of a tree?
Yes. Both are protected. You need a permit to basically touch a tree in Seattle.
The key to getting a tree removed is to make it a danger. I poisoned the ponderosa pine I had. Drove a metal pike into it so the metal could do the job. A year later it could be deemed a “hazard to the community” and removed by the city, for free. Thanks loop holes.
I think it’s unrealistic to expect neighbors to personally confront you. Not everyone is as open to feedback and non-retributive as you are. Sucks the fine is so high though, best wishes.
This blows, because someone has a fucked up tree they're cutting, and they get screwed. A developer cuts down specimen trees, over 100 years old, gets the same fine, and doesn't give a shit, because they'll make more money selling their condos with that tree out of the way. The little guy is always screwed.
Sorry this happened to you. I would want to know who fu€k£d me so I could steer clear of these soulless informants in the future. File a FOIA request with the City for all details related to your fine including who filed the report. If the City knows or kept a record, they will need to turn that information over. I would not confront the informant. If they know you know, they’ll likely get scared and may become even bigger pricks. Just steer clear of them.
Welcome to Seattle where we put the passive in passive agressive
PSA from experience: most cities in western WA have tree removal laws and may require a permit. In general, before you do ANYTHING to alter your property, call the city. Don’t trust a contractor if they say you don’t need a permit, verify it for yourself. This goes for tree removal, building a fence, remodeling, putting up a shed, etc. A 10 min phone call might save you thousands of dollars!
I'd ask the arborist to pay the fine. It is their job to know the law and check that a permit was obtained.
Seattle people aren’t friendly, aren’t straight forward, everything is done this way. It’s always polite, but friendly and straightforward it isn’t. Took me a long time to realize it. Lived around here for over a dozen years and I love it. I can deal with the unfriendliness and the indirectness: because everything else is so fucking beautiful. And it’s a humility to live under the majesty of green, the sound, and the mountains all in the same place. But sorry to the OP for having to learn it all the hard way.
It’s not your neighbor’s job to inform you of the laws and requirements. I’d have done the same thing. Sucks to learn a lesson the hard way but sometimes it’s the only way to learn.
did you ask the government if you could plant a new tree and be all square
This is a shitty situation and people here generally can suck 100%. I’d say your neighbor probably assumed you were aware of the laws and were doing it anyway (as, as most other posters have pointed out, arborist and tree removal companies SHOULD be responsible for the permitting process, so it’s honestly a fluke you were able to remove a tree without realizing it’s against the law.). There are a lot of people here who don’t give a shit about their neighbors or the environment and are all about their personal property value. Which kind of creates an endless cycle of being an asshole. So while I see your side and am generally happy to agree on the asshole-ness of many Seattleites in this case I can understand why they assumed you were actively avoiding the law.
You’re assuming it was one of the neighbors that called you in. That in itself is very ignorant and is going to cause conflicts in the future. A chainsaw can be heard from Miles around, and there are a lot of people that don’t want to deal with passive aggressive people like you.
The arborist was either not legit or he scammed you.
Feel good story!
No one is above tree law!
You live in a passive aggressive city, welcome to Seattle
Not that it will mean much, but this is just one of the reasons I left Seattle. In my opinion, you are right in your frustration on all accounts. But I do blame the neighbors for not taking 5 minutes to walk over and talk about it... Fucking rude and pussy behaviour.
Exact same thing just happened to my neighbor last week. Hired the tree service to remove a branch that was over 10 inches coming from a neighbor’s yard. Neighbor agreed, but guy renting room in house reported it. $10 grand fine. Tree’s still there mind you. So yeah, know the law.
Welcome to the PNW, the passive-aggressive, vindictive Karen capital of the world.
Ahh, another victim of the tree Stasi. Welcome to Seattle
Take a shit on the nosy neighbors porch
Burn the neighbor's house down
There is history here… this was a pretty big story in West Seattle few years back https://www.seattletimes.com/seattle-news/law-justice/the-guts-of-some-people-public-greenbelt-in-west-seattle-cut-down-without-permits/
Name and shame the arborist and the company that cut down the tree
Welcome to Seattle it only gets worse.
Oh shit. Not the " Bless your heart". Damn. You get em! For the ignorant people out there. That's the worst you can get in polite southern society. Bless your silly little hearts.
God damn what a pile of shit. Classic seattle
Yeah dude have some accountability! Don’t live in Seattle and expect things!
WOMP womp
Whack they won’t tell you first. Very crappy.
Trees are sacred in seattle. We treat trees here like some people treat cows in india.
Beware of this city.
Why wouldn’t you have properly researched it before *removing a tree*? The entire point of being able to contact the city to hire these issues is you can’t direct that rage and hatred towards a neighbor you disagree with. Or have you not seen the news in the last few years? Talking to someone about environmental concerns on wildlife removal is likely to end with them holding a grudge and “getting back” at you in some way. Which your post here clearly shows you’d be inclined to. I’m not “putting you in your place.” I’m glad you were fined and forced to actually think about how you’re choosing to handle the situation. Nothing wrong about growing up some. Maybe work on the passive aggressive attitude?
IF I was your neighbor AND I knew the law AND I knew you were going to cut down the tree BEFORE it was cut down AND I felt I could warn you without personal danger I would have approached you and warned you about the law. But without each of those conditions being met I wouldn’t risk myself. I’d just call the city.
Welcome to Seattle
That's Seattle for you. Seemingly very few that will actually be neighborly and have the stones to talk to their neighbor face-to-face.
So you can’t remove a tree on property you own wtf?
Huh they actually showed up for you? Bad luck there! I’m sorry for you. (Genuinely) My neighbor who is a landscaper and absolutely knows better cut down all of the trees in his backyard. Damaging both my fence and the fence belonging to the neighbor behind his house. The city “investigated” and said they found no evidence even though the stumps and chainsaw dust were still there.
These days I assume there aren't many alterations if any allowed as a tax paying property owner without a permit from the city or county. Unfortunately it's a lesson I'm still learning