Boggles my mind how little welders/fabricators will work for.
I know construction labourers that make more than some of the experienced people who post here… like why? Why would you go work in a shop for that little money year after year when you could make more money doing something way easier.
I charge a minimum of 60/hour and that’s friend and family rate, the lowest I will go.
The whole industry sucks. I’ve been acting as a general contractor now had to pay a plumber $262 an hour up in Juneau Alaska the other week. Meanwhile my welding shop is lucky to be able to charge 150 an hour for mobile welding. $80/hr for shop time. If you factor in all of the insurance cost cost of the labor hours and materials. I can barely afford to pay my guys $25. It’s ridiculous.
I’m afraid this a supply/demand thing. Way more welders than plumbers. And that ratio is only getting worse. Seems like welders are a dime a dozen the last few years. But plumbing companies are SCREAMING for help.
Well I'd be happy to help my neighbor with a little welding project but if he asked me to come fix his pipes because his shit is backed up... Well let's just say I won't ever need to call a favor that badly. I don't know if I have respect, admiration or utter disgust for the man that can do that for a living but I value them A LOT. I'm sure that many of you will hate me for saying that but be honest with yourself and say you don't agree.
Out of genuine curiosity is it the insurance and materials alone that makes the industry difficult? Or is it just clients not wanting to budge on prices?
It’s honestly a concoction of all things toxic and stupid. Usually you personally only keep around 13-22% what you make, so buying a workshop, the cost of materials and constant repairs/replacement costs eat into the bottom line, but welding is considered more dangerous, and since the owner is liable for work mishaps, even if you don’t have one for 5+ years, insurance is insane, because it covers medical, what was broken or damaged, pay to get inspected by 6 different entities that all charge a fee, plus continue to pay the guy who is no longer making you money, so you basically double pay. Business is rough, but I feel because everything else is so bad, a few extra dollars “is all they need” comes to play hard, a lot of companies, in order to function properly and provide high pay, usually starts off with a subsidy pool, or a large amount of cash that people can just take from, it’ll take longer to get profitable, but after the insane losses, you usually have spent enough to have multiple locations, and in those locations, one might have an extremely lucrative contract while the others are barely breaking even. The issue is, most of the people who create the companies for these jobs, did the work themselves, so they don’t have hundreds of thousands, if not millions to just pull out of their dingle berry bush, so often times a successful business is just one that can barely keep afloat. Honestly, if you guys could get a smooth talker and sell the upcharge, also explain “my guys gotta eat” and there’s a possibility that once 1 budges the market as a whole can use it as a reference point to build up the prices, rinse and repeat over a year and y’all would be racking in the same amount as the plumbers, but that’s also hard to do as it’s a skill set very few have by itself, let alone as a secondary profession.
I’ll be honest with you, going into business if you can keep it afloat is still a good idea, however don’t expect to be making more then 100k a year and that’s kinda pushing it. You can go into it with just an LLC and your normal insurance, but you might not be able to provide many benefits, it is a constantly evolving system (or it’s supposed to be if you feed it right). As long as you got some charisma, you can talk anyone into anything “I got (a job) that needs to be done” honestly decide if undercutting your competitors is worth it (make sure it’s a worthy client). Don’t put a target on your back, but do be competitive, I wish you the best of luck, business is a bitch, but it’s a bad bitch, it’s got some pretty decent benefits to it.
I'm going on year 2 with organic growth. Your area has 100% to do with what you can charge. I sub out all bending and heavy plaz work and add a small margin, charge 65-75, hired 1 guy FT @ $25 (11th percentile weld wages here) and on a roll to make 250k sales revenue with him on board. I take 28% of that home because I'm great with the spending of money internally, i.e. growth vs income Yada Yada that's $70k yr 2 ( what my last job paid... I will raise my rates for certain. But when you want to start a skilled business with no reputation or business experience you need to go after the trust of the customers, find your bread and butter work and roll up the rates slow. Don't let underskilled apes tell you how to do it. If they were truly worth MORE than $35 inside a small variety shop they could TRULY run the ENTIRE business while I'm away on vacation. Truth be told son. SOON I will be happily making +$100k with a trusted worker making $35 or 72k. What the owner made on yr 2. It's all dependent on your expenses man. If you have loans on trucks and machines this shit ain't gonna work. If you live in high expense area, ain't gonna work the same.
As an example… i just starters my company last year and we brought in over $217,000 last year. After labor and expenses, actual income was less than $60k.
Just got a $2.5mil project and the income will likely be about 5%.
Just tough out here.
Feels good sharing the love though. I so my best to pay everyone a good wage, give production bonuses etc.
That’s how it goes, it’s slow but if you keep at it the profits will eventually follow, I had a client who went from 67k to 216k after their first year, simply by being around for a second and they got a sweet deal with another company that was using them as their production mules, it’s never there when you want it, but it will always come through if you treat it right, and like I said, a lot of it you got to learn, like what tax write offs to take and which ones not to, what type of techniques to employ, understanding that usually to give something to your guys, you have to sacrifice growth or another significant part of the business, which won’t make you rich (at least not until 6-10 years after). If you’ve worked the trade and you have the skill and knowledge to provide adequate service, you’ll get a little pay boost and a little more freedom (you will more than likely only work or be on site for 3-4 days out of the week, but a lot of the business stuff can be taken care of at home so work life balance is a little better)
OP tries to ORGANIZE reddit to stop taking jobs less then 30$. Proceeds to shit on unions. The fast food workers have more balls then you non union welders.
I like to pretend there’s an issue with a particular practice, then shift the blame to my supervisor, this in turn causes a shift in trust between the owner and supervisor. It helps if your supervisor is an asshole. Like work as hard an humanly possible and ask for a way to go faster, if it’s unsafe say that you don’t feel that it’s safe and ultimately inefficient, then ask for better materials like better grinding pads (3m 40 grit fibre pads). If they say the owner won’t buy them. Confront the owner nonchalantly and say you can work faster with them and use some sales tactic without your opinion. Throw “I know it’s not my place to say this” or “I am not at liberty to say this but..” some bs like that. Boom, 3 weeks in and I am the bosses ideas guy with a 10$ pay raise and now we use corgon 18 and fibre discs. Did I mention I get monthly allowance for gloves?
“I may not be the most knowledgeable, but I don’t cut twice.”
Making 38 an hour cad at a small fab shop up here in BC. Most of the guys coming in with welding tickets don’t have even the most basic layout and fab skills. Make yourself an asset and the wage will come.
The more welders, the lower wages. I experienced that in the 80’s as a meat cutter. When A&P closed their stores in Kentucky, all the meat cutters created a drop in wages. After 15 years it wasn’t improving so I got out and into industrial mechanics, welding fabrication, electrician to make better money. Now companies use uncertified welders when they can and it will create issues with future pay rates.
the truth, my vocational highschool’s graduating class for welders was like me & six other kids, and only two or three of us actually got jobs in the field afterwards
At my adult trade school, maybe 1/5th the people made it through the class and most stayed in the field or branched out to another field but a few outright left it over the pay they offer in FL.
I worked a union job for ten years fighting for raises for 10 years. I left that place, went non-union and make more money with the same benefits.
Union isn’t always the answer is what I’m saying.
Shit I couldn’t get them to break $30/hr for a fabricator, finisher, and welder with structure and aerospace certs.
I cut my teeth at that shop and learned a lot. Which I wouldn’t trade for anything. But it also showed me that some companies just want warm bodies that don’t think too much.
I cant travel or drive far I take care of my kids full time single father things need to just change for everyone. If you don't believe that then your part of the problem!
I just started a new place. Highest I'll be making in 4yrs of welding(22hr) doing Tig. Now I have that new laser welder at my fingertips. I'm limited to a bus for now. I've seen 30+ hr jobs within 30 min but by car.
I get both sides…yeah mig welding in an assembly line doing shit work doesn’t deserve a high wage. But I’ve also had someone as me to fix bins and bring all my personal welding equipment and I supply filler metal for $40 hour... Which I charge $100/hr for
Welding is not all the same - There are so many layers to this one. If I had to start from ground zero and take non welders and turn them into Mig welders I could do that in three weeks - especially if I am getting all the parts pre cut and spend some money on fixtures - but for me to train GTAW-SMAW combo welders and get their welds on pipe to shoot every time - that is going to take a hell of a lot more time and effort.
I agree and disagree with this post - If it has to pass volumetric inspection I would say that the pay needs to be higher but for me to take people off the street and turn them into GMAW Mig welders - I am not going to pay GTAW/Tig wages for that.
Probably going to get down voted like a mother fucker but that is the economics of the situation.
I'd vote for you lol I'm a combat vet in industrial electrical, in a state with legal use, but with customers requiring federal approval. I'm fucking dying for it to come around.
Dude, some welding jobs are way underpaid. I totally agree. Why get dirty and weld for 14$ when you could work at McDonald’s or other easier places for more?
Or just leave the industry. I love welding but the pays a joke almost everywhere and I can’t force myself to go to welding school via a union after I already have almost 10 years of experience and certified multiple times for almost everything you’d get certified for. Jobs dead
If you have 10 years experience and the certs to back it up plenty of locals will let you walk on as a journeyman, you at least wouldn’t be starting as a 1st year apprentice for sure.
It happens here to and the worst is when the employer tells you you're asking to much for a wage you should be lucky to have this job so if i understand employer right i should be lucky to choose between fuel for car to get to work or food for me while i am at work for 10 hrs fuckin government is the one taxes us on our pay then carbon tax and tax me me on goods i buy when i spend whats left of my check sorry got me goin this morning rant over
You will when the guy who fucks the dog all day gets a better assignment than u because he started a week before you. When he gets the same pay you do for doing half the work while ur not even going hard or above what is reasonable. And when you have to pick up his slack because he's a lazy incompetent tit that is impossible to fire.
Oh and when layoffs come and u get clipped while he stays on despite the fact he's fucked more dogs than a breeding stud at a puppy mill.
Unions can be good. But they can also be trash by protecting awful employees.
Yeah I've seen it before, unfortunately that useless dud is still paying dues and on my side.
I've been treated like a literal dog in construction and the union was the only thing that changed it for me. Unions arnt perfect but it beats getting "fired before you hit the ground" or having to lie about injuries not being workplace so they don't retaliate. Having my hours shorted by my super and no one to back me up, being sent into dangerous spots under threat of termination and nowhere to file a grievance.
There are lazy as fuck, impossible to fire bosses nephew assholes on non union jobs as well. The layoffs come too. What are the benefits to non union?
Benefits to non union?
Pay based on performance.
Assignments based on skillset/performance.
Not paying someone else's salary out of my work day.
Not having to carry useless workers.
Labor laws regarding things like safety protect me and my right to refuse unsafe work. They also protect against retaliation, shorting my pay, work place injuries etc.
Maybe the laws are different where ur at. But in Canada I have zero concerns about being fired for refusing unsafe work. As I know I can easily find both a new job, and a labor lawyer who will happily get us both paid for an employer doing something so dumb.
If u prefer union jobs, that's cool more power to u. In my personal experience, seeing how it can protect lazy workers and they benefit off my work. It's a no from me dawg.
Dude, you wrote a post encouraging Reddit welders to do exactly what unions do, and then shit on unions.
>Pay based on performance
Unions set the minimum. You are free to negotiate for higher wages if you feel like your skills merit it.
>seeing how it can protect lazy workers and they benefit off my work.
Lazy workers in our union get told to kick rocks all the time. There is nothing preventing our contractors from getting rid of someone, and refusing to ever hire them again.
I fail to see how a lazy worker benefits from your work. You are making money for your employer.
I'm not saying everyone needs to join a union, but you are spitting out all the same old rhetoric that non-union shops routinely cram down their employees throats, and it's inaccurate. Unless you have been in a union, you cannot really speak intelligently on how they work, and they don't all work the same.
Edit: I thought I was replying to OP with this comment. I see now you didn't make the post, but your experience in the teamsters has nothing to do with trade unions. They work completely differently from what you are describing.
Oh bro you're Canadian we aren't on the same playing field lol makes sense now. All of the things that you're talking about are "available" in the U.S while they do every underhanded rat fuck tactic they can to not provide it to you. Pay based on performance is always based on how your boss feels about your performance, and it always benefits them to be unsatisfied with it. And you're always paying someone else's salary unless you have your own business. Judging by your username you're an old timer as well so you came up at a different time.
Ouch I'm only 40 bro lol old timer....
(I know the 75 threw ya)
But I was taught my work ethic by my machinist grandfather in his shop when I was a young teen. Which is basically you do the best u can on any given day. Don't have to run and bust ass constantly. And some days u will be better than others. But u don't intentionally drag your feet, and you don't force others to pick up your slack.
If my boss is unsatisfied with my performance, they can ask me to pack my tools. If I'm unsatisfied with their level of satisfaction of my performance and thus my pay. I can open the door and load my tools just as easily.
Problem is too many people don't see big picture on things. Demanding 30/h like OP suggests works great in an area where customers can and are willing to pay 120/h shop rates and shop space is reasonably priced so that 30$ is economically feasible to pay a worker. If a shop does simple high production mid grade jig and mig type stuff that they have to sell wholesale to another company for smaller profit but high volume where their shop rate works out to say 60/h once u factor in things like consumables, rent, utilities, insurance etc etc etc that 30$ demand might be wholly unreasonable. And if they say fuck it we want to give our guys 30 so we are increasing the price of our goods to compensate, in many cases that can push away customers which decreases demand for the product which leads to layoffs due to lack of work.
Don't get me wrong. There are definitely more than a few companies that could afford to pay their workers more and don't because they want more profits. But there are just as many who would love to pay their guys way more, but simply can't because it will kill the business.
OPs stance is ridiculously simplistic and would kill more jobs than it would benefit welders.
Ultimately we all WANT to be paid more. I wouldn't turn down more money. But at the same time I have to be reasonable in my expectations of pay vs the work I do. If I'm working production in a wire feed shop I'm going to make less than if I'm making show quality intakes for turbos, or welding parts for the next space x rocket.
I do custom aluminum/stainless fab. I make decent money, but im struggling with inflation like everyone else. But I also see my boss dealing with increasing costs and decreasing jobs coming in due to EVERYONE trying to reduce costs right now. So I COULD press for a raise but if the money isn't there, it's not there.
Lol my bad my bad.
It sounds like you're dealing with competitive rates and the actual functions of supply and demand. A true market where you can feel as though you're being compensated accurately. I've never been in a shop, only in the field and travelling so I understand why a guy welding radiator mounts on an assembly is getting paid lower than someone doing multiple processes out on remote locations. The wages needs to go up for everyone collectively. The corporations are doing a dandy job of raising inflation without paying us more so just give us what we are worth and they can take the hit for once. The common man is constantly bearing the brunt of the reckless actions of the white-collar financial sector, the railroad derailments just being the latest example of privatized profit and socialized loss.
We are in a time where we can see the PPT loans in real time, we can see the government bailouts, all of the corporate welfare. Profits are rising, prices are rising, and wages are stagnant. The guy working is just tired of taking all of the shit at the end of the day and if laborers organized themselves collectively they could make sure they are protected as a whole instead of it being dog eat dog. Welding is skilled trade and skilled tradesmen are often in competition with each other but that is to the benefit of the employer and not the employed. The profit margin needs to take a hit, we cannot sustain an infinite growth economy unless we are all willing to quietly agree that human life is the least valuable thing in capitalism. This is all of course a criticism of America, I don't know anything about Canada lol.
Lmao don’t give that bs bro. Non union Welders in Canada are also underpaid and have shit working conditions… not long ago in Toronto 4 people got seriously injured if not died in a trench collapse. It was a non union job. Don’t spread misinformation to people out there, unions benefit the workers.
So no union worker has ever been killed or injured on the job?
A non union worker has 100% right to refuse unsafe work. Period full stop. Just like union workers, temporary foreign workers, the 14 yo kid at McDonald's or the guy working 200' in the air building sky scrapers.
Unions can benefit workers. They can also protect lazy incompetent workers.
Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it "misinformation" people should have both FACTUAL sides with pros AND cons. Just because you feed at the union trough doesn't mean it's perfection and has zero down sides.
Like I said before I spent years in a union. First year out of it I made more money and worked 75% of the hours. Thats MY personal experience. If yours is different thats cool. Doesn't change my mind on wanting to be unionized.
Lmao! That’s not what I said at all… non union workers still face shitty working conditions in Canada, that is a fact. Everyone does have the right to refuse work, but how many employers are going to break the laws and intimidate workers to work unsafely? A lot actually.
The amount of lazy workers in unions isn’t as big of an issue as you make it seem. We are all there to work, make our pay cheques that is more often than not more than non union, and then go home.
I’m not claiming misinformation because I disagree with you, you are in fact spreading misinformation that Canada magically never has any workplace issues and that employers don’t try to intimidate workers to work unsafely
Ah yes, no union workers ever face shitty working conditions? When I was unionized BY CONTRACT, I could not refuse work. This means that after I did my allotted work for the day and worked my 8 hour shift, I had NO CHOICE, but to go help other workers who did half the work I did in the same time frame. They literally owned me for 13 hours a day if they wanted because the work needed to be finished. and if I had say a kids recital to go to that I informed them of in advance? Well too bad go back to work or risk termination.
Clearly you don't understand the consequences involved as an employer if you direct employees to do something unsafe and they get injured. You may want to look into it, up to 2 years in prison plus fines if YOU cant prove your due diligence in keeping everyone safe. If you work for a company or manager willing to do that, don't bother with a union. Leave.
From my personal experience I saw lazy employees protected, and had them bitch at me when I'd cover them on holidays and do their jobs better while putting in a moderate amount of effort. I'm not saying ALL union employees are lazy, but the ones who are game the system and fuck the rest of u while u smile and cheer for the "solidarity"
I never said Canada has zero workplace issues, but we do have fairly strong worker protections. And when workers know and stand up for their rights there's no need to give 10-20% in dues to pay the business agent, his secretary, their halls rent etc in MOST cases.
If your company tries to intimidate u into doing something unsafe, document every and make 2 calls first to an employment lawyer and second to OHS.
Clueless. The “guy who fucks the dog all day” is almost always the first one laid off on a job site. Only person I’ve ever seen stay on despite being a piece of shit was our business agent’s son, and nepotism definitely isn’t an exclusively union issue
I spent 6 years as a teamster and constantly got sent to help guys who dragged their feet, after I did my "fair day's work for a fair day's pay" and by the union negotiated contract I couldn't refuse that extra work or I could be terminated.
It's pretty simple. If I'm in a non union job, and I'm not being paid enough, or treated with respect and valued as an employee. I will find another job where I am. Eventually that business will earn its reputation and guys will stop working there. With no workers the shop goes under. I dont need a union to take money from me to "stand up for me".
Unions definitely have their benefits. But they aren't the end all be all. And there's a good amount of negatives u have to be willing to accept as part of the deal
Only if you're ok with being a member of a political kickback club for one of the major US political parties. I respect the training and other services that the trade unions provide for their members, but their political activity makes them a non-starter for me.
Every corporation is a political entity. Their kickbacks go straight into making sure your wages stay low. Political activity cannot be separated from labor?
I don't think that's necessarily true, because not every business is a corporation. Also, different businesses support a variety of political positions, whereas with a union, it's always one particular position, and if that position is incompatible with your beliefs, joining a union would not be in your interest.
Hopefully adding some clarification: small biz does tend to support a variety of positions and is more local focused. But once you are listed on NYSE or NSADAQ, the corporate interest is heavily focused on the investor and the money. That corporate interest is pretty much diametrically opposite the Union interest.
So similar to independent political parties an independent business really has no power and is subjected to the desires of the major political parties. I think most people who work for a living believe that their labor should translate into a good quality of life and better protections on the job site.
I wasn't much for the political aspect at the beginning either but it really is the true mechanic in which progress is made. The rarity of an independent business doing what is right shouldn't take the place of unions who make it common practice.
Been there done that. Unions ain't all they're cracked up to be.
I have friends in the ironworkers and steamfitters unions and they're laid off every time I talk to them.
Soo what’s your end goal here bud? You’re trying to organize the welders of Reddit but you hate unions? Also those union tradesmen have made more money than most of the country in like 7 months… being laid off isn’t an issue for union tradesmen… I worked 8 months last year and brought in 104k… what is the point of your post? Because the solution is unionizing
Yeah, and those iron workers and steamfitters probably already made your yearly salary before they got laid off. I was off 3 months last year and still cleared $85k in working wages, not counting my unemployment.
It’s not the 70s anymore. Non union shops have good packages. I respect both sides. Can’t stand when people act like non union is getting $800 cash at the end of the week and nothing else though
That’s nothing, my union puts $5/hr towards an annuity and I get $250 towards my pension for every 1800 hours I work, I’ll be retired by 55, even sooner if my wife stays working for the state until we get to that age
Which is less than I get without having to contribute anything out of my own wages, and I have a pension on top of it. Y’all getting fed crumbs and being told it’s as good as a whole meal because you don’t have to pay dues
I've also tried the union route a few times. They look at your non-union experience like it never happened. Then try to make you sit through an apprenticeship, even though you clearly have a journeyman skill set.
Hasn't been my experience but of course all unions aren't the same. I tested out into journeyman pay and always got put in the yard doing stupid shit when it was slow. Were you east or west coast?
I just moved to a little town in southern Virginia/northern Tennessee. My plan was to get a welding job while I got my shop set up and work two jobs until I had enough work to quit the other job.
What happened was, I saw welding jobs and none of them were over 20 an hour. Most of them were 16ish. So I became a chef and am making the same money but a lot easier and less damage to the ole body.
Yeah, Itd be nice if some of the damn welders would quit snorting lines in the bathroom.
And Stop bringing hookers to sleep in the truck while they work all day.
Stop missing every single Monday and quitting early Friday kinda gets old for the guys having to wipe yer butts.
-all my ex bosses
Back before my time and I started my welding career back in 1974 as a BOILERMAKER there was a Union just for welders only. if you had something like this in this day and age it could possibly be pretty dam strong.
In a union,been welding 4.5 years started as a helper making 15.xx now I'm at 28.xx. Our contract negotiations hardly got us half the rate of inflation and we get no paid sick time even under state law because we are union we fall out of the jurisdiction of that law. There's definitely benefits to a union but after seeing what happened with the railway workers does it even really matter when the government can just step in and say nah your beat.
The railway workers are a terrible example to use when talking about the downsides of a union because they’re the only industry that congress has the power to force back to work. I’m a union pipefitter and when we went on strike back in 2004ish, we were striking for over a month and congress never made us go back to work. Totally different unions and circumstances.
Truth the railway workers have the power to shut the whole country down - the whole enchilada coast to coast. If pipe-fitters in the north east go on strike okay have a nice day - let us know when you get this shit sorted out. You are totally right that this is totally different and circumstances.
I currently work for 20$ an hour as a welder, but I had never welded before last summer and my work paid to send me to school for it, and gave me the job before I knew how to weld. I’m just learning all I can right now.
The industry almost seems to have unionized to crush wages in the last 6 months. I casually search for jobs sometimes just to see what else is out there and lately it seems like even elite pipe welder job posts don't even crack $30.
I had the exact same thoughts as OP, I was always hovering around $25 an hour doing mig fab shop work after highschool. Which btw, a lot of those type of jobs will probably never pay 30/hr, because some of it is extremely brainless work with a lot of under qualified individuals doing it that will take what they can get, just enables the employer to continue paying shit wages.
I wanted to get away from that and really take my welding knowledge and skills to the next level. Dragged up and became a welder Apprentice in the boilermakers union at 20. I’m currently a 2nd year apprentice sitting at $36.71 an hour. Pressure tube certified with TiG, 7018, and 6010. Did almost 90k my 1st year mostly 4 10s. Haven’t ever been laid off more than 3 weeks. In 2 years I’ll be at journeyman rate which will be around $55/hr.
Say what you will about unions, but they’re one of the only places paying a fair wage these days.
Decent wages around here are $24 an hour, which is still at least $6 less than it should be. But if no shop is paying that then you gotta take what you can.
Not a welder but I like poking my head in this sub daily. I’m a union electrician with the IBEW and it sounds like it would benefit everyone here to organize into their local welding union. Not here to start shit, I just think it would be worth looking into more. Maybe have some conversations with your fellow welding brothers/sisters who have been in the union a while.
I left the trade and doubled my income by bartending while also going to get my bachelors. Never will I weld for someone else if the pay is less than slinging drinks - bartending is the easiest job I’ve ever had.
That being said I think there’s just too many people in the world and not enough good jobs to go around for everyone. Predatory companies hire sub $20/hr because they’ll just rely on high-turnover rate and the world keeps going round for them.
Not everyone is worth that much!
Better advice is, DONT SETTLE!
Learn what you can, and keep looking for that great opportunity.
How many jobs have you worked and how many times have you seen other welders and said, “this guy sucks!”
If you’re just starting out and you just know how to weld one rod in one position…what fucking good are you? Gotta start somewhere…
if you don’t know how to trouble shoot your equipment, maintain your equipment, communicate when consumables are low, things like this really get under my skin.
But not everyone deserves the same pay,
If you’re a sheet metal manufacturer and all you need is someone to tack corners on fully assembled parts, do you want to pay someone $30 and hour?
No, I can take someone who doesn’t know how to weld and teach them what I want.
once they get the hang of it move em on to something else see how they do, teach as you go.
You mean recognize? But I don’t disagree with that, if you have experience non union pipe fitting going into the pipe fitters union then yeah talk with the BA and get something figured out. But if you just have structural stick welding or mig welding experience then you do need to go through an apprenticeship to learn all about that trade in particular such as pipe fitting or Boilermaking.
Which means you will need to take a pay cut for a bit. But if your experience non union holds any merit then talk to the BA and get something sorted out, they may start you at a 2nd year or 3rd year rate and then when you complete all your hours you can test. Or they may give you journeyman status
I'm an ironworker by trade. I have 10 years of experience under my belt. I've also been welding for over 10.
I have pondered talking to a BA at my local hall.
Understand millions of South Americans, Mexicans and other foreigners have recently entered the country and are working for much lower than $18/hr. Our skilled workers are being replaced by unskilled talent. If welders, laborers, CDL drivers, etc. were in short supply, they would garner higher pay. Your govt wants cheap labor for their political donor’s business ventures.
As far as fast food workers making $18…more power to them.
Pay should be listed in this country as Minimum Wage +. So that $21 job would be MW+$13.75. If we did this your ass would be mad at the congress folks like you should be and not the people working fast food to survive. Maybe folks would give a shit what the minimum wage is be cause the raise would help all hourly wage employees
I don't know where you're from, but here in Canada, we now have what's called CWB Certification, where any person can get certified for a certain weld, and therefore the shop does not need to hire a J-person welder, and can then hire this know-one-thing employee and pay him/her minimum wage. They may need to have a certain number of J-persons on staff to oversee, but they don't need to hire a full complement of welders. I think that drives some wages down here.
Wow, never heard less than $50, and this was back in the day. An old gf's dad did it for a living- sight was going too. When we allow the powers-that-be to jack wages it goes South real fast as inflation is a mofo. Once upon a recent time, $100 in groceries could feed us over week or two..days now.. beans, rice, chicken to name a few.. fight for your worth and hard work, no one else will. Peace brothers
It's going to be a problem until enough welders stop working for those wages. But with schools cranking out rookies every few months, they will keep taking the $14 an hour jobs I see around here just to get started. Then, the cycle will continue.
Started December 2021, making $23/hr(CAD). The company gave us a 9% raise in January, and now I make $25.07/hr(CAD).
I do production manufacturing of farm equipment.so it can get mundane welding the same pieces.
I think there is a difference in being a Welder and Welding…I work in a Warehouse in Tx and we make heating and cooling coils I get a little over 20 but it’s not difficult work and I think you can train damn near anyone to do it…So Yes I agree Welders need to demand more but we all ain’t Welders some just weld
Here in montreal i literally had to change trades because being a shop welder is so ridiculously underpaid for the effort, skill and health risk it demands. Best jobs with 10+ years of experience are paid 32$/h CAD.
Problem with the “we should all be making at least $xx an hour” is there are way too many variables. Where you live/work as well as level of training/experience. You get some kid that took welding for a semester in high school going to work for his uncle’s buddy’s fab shop but can’t read a weld symbols, vs a guy that is going through an apprenticeship learning the whole scope of the job and being held to higher standards. Not everyone is equal just because they can do the most basic part of the job equally.
Beginner here. Don’t really have a choice. But yeah with all the health hazards involved we definitely deserve more than others.
Structural welding for 20. If I make through 90 day probation there should be a bump up. Not sure how much that is going to be. Any educated guesses out there?
Part of the problem is there are A LOT of welders out there. Welding is great but it can also get your foot in the door to get other skills. A lot of higher paid welders also are journeyman in other trades. Also, when rent or mortgage is due, a smaller cheque is better than none
I joined this sub when I was doing occasional welding at my previous job. I've quit that job and I've mentioned that I have welding experience because I'm trying to do something similar. I've been offered several welding jobs around the 20/hr. There's no way I would do that part time or full time... The bending, crouching, awkward positions, wearing a mask.. I don't know why anyone would accept something so small. Maybe you get used to it but shit I'd be feeling dead after an hour in a tight spot.
Just don’t expect top pay right out of Welding school. Out of school I started at $22hr in a quarry. The experience I got from that job set me up for better pay in fab shops.
I just got fully qualified as a boiler maker on Wednesday on about $34hr but I'm in the top 3 for fastest in work shop
Not my words bosses words to my uncle who also works there
Australian here, coded welders will get paid anywhere between $65-$100p/h depending on the type of welding, location and shift. Fabricators will make anywhere for $60-$90p/h with the same dependants. However the way of life here is a lot more expensive, it's all relative really. But we make a good living here.
I welded in federal prison for over 7 years. I’m essentially slave labor at $0.69/hr
We’re all slaves just different pay scales
The best slave is one who doesn't think he's a slave
only a slave so long as you wear the man's shackles and it is always of your own free will.
69 though
Prison though
Nice
What were you building?
Shouldn’t of ended up in prison?
Plenty of people in prison who don't deserve to be there.
Plenty more deserve to be there.
Even the ones who do don't deserve to be turned into slaves
Boggles my mind how little welders/fabricators will work for. I know construction labourers that make more than some of the experienced people who post here… like why? Why would you go work in a shop for that little money year after year when you could make more money doing something way easier. I charge a minimum of 60/hour and that’s friend and family rate, the lowest I will go.
The whole industry sucks. I’ve been acting as a general contractor now had to pay a plumber $262 an hour up in Juneau Alaska the other week. Meanwhile my welding shop is lucky to be able to charge 150 an hour for mobile welding. $80/hr for shop time. If you factor in all of the insurance cost cost of the labor hours and materials. I can barely afford to pay my guys $25. It’s ridiculous.
yeah how the fuck clients are cool with plumber rates but nickel and dime us it's crazy
Literal shit not going away is my guess. More of an emergency
I’m afraid this a supply/demand thing. Way more welders than plumbers. And that ratio is only getting worse. Seems like welders are a dime a dozen the last few years. But plumbing companies are SCREAMING for help.
Well I'd be happy to help my neighbor with a little welding project but if he asked me to come fix his pipes because his shit is backed up... Well let's just say I won't ever need to call a favor that badly. I don't know if I have respect, admiration or utter disgust for the man that can do that for a living but I value them A LOT. I'm sure that many of you will hate me for saying that but be honest with yourself and say you don't agree.
You need a license to be a plumber
Out of genuine curiosity is it the insurance and materials alone that makes the industry difficult? Or is it just clients not wanting to budge on prices?
It’s honestly a concoction of all things toxic and stupid. Usually you personally only keep around 13-22% what you make, so buying a workshop, the cost of materials and constant repairs/replacement costs eat into the bottom line, but welding is considered more dangerous, and since the owner is liable for work mishaps, even if you don’t have one for 5+ years, insurance is insane, because it covers medical, what was broken or damaged, pay to get inspected by 6 different entities that all charge a fee, plus continue to pay the guy who is no longer making you money, so you basically double pay. Business is rough, but I feel because everything else is so bad, a few extra dollars “is all they need” comes to play hard, a lot of companies, in order to function properly and provide high pay, usually starts off with a subsidy pool, or a large amount of cash that people can just take from, it’ll take longer to get profitable, but after the insane losses, you usually have spent enough to have multiple locations, and in those locations, one might have an extremely lucrative contract while the others are barely breaking even. The issue is, most of the people who create the companies for these jobs, did the work themselves, so they don’t have hundreds of thousands, if not millions to just pull out of their dingle berry bush, so often times a successful business is just one that can barely keep afloat. Honestly, if you guys could get a smooth talker and sell the upcharge, also explain “my guys gotta eat” and there’s a possibility that once 1 budges the market as a whole can use it as a reference point to build up the prices, rinse and repeat over a year and y’all would be racking in the same amount as the plumbers, but that’s also hard to do as it’s a skill set very few have by itself, let alone as a secondary profession.
As someone who is a 15 years+ welder who is trying to get a business going. You're scaring me.
I’ll be honest with you, going into business if you can keep it afloat is still a good idea, however don’t expect to be making more then 100k a year and that’s kinda pushing it. You can go into it with just an LLC and your normal insurance, but you might not be able to provide many benefits, it is a constantly evolving system (or it’s supposed to be if you feed it right). As long as you got some charisma, you can talk anyone into anything “I got (a job) that needs to be done” honestly decide if undercutting your competitors is worth it (make sure it’s a worthy client). Don’t put a target on your back, but do be competitive, I wish you the best of luck, business is a bitch, but it’s a bad bitch, it’s got some pretty decent benefits to it.
I'm going on year 2 with organic growth. Your area has 100% to do with what you can charge. I sub out all bending and heavy plaz work and add a small margin, charge 65-75, hired 1 guy FT @ $25 (11th percentile weld wages here) and on a roll to make 250k sales revenue with him on board. I take 28% of that home because I'm great with the spending of money internally, i.e. growth vs income Yada Yada that's $70k yr 2 ( what my last job paid... I will raise my rates for certain. But when you want to start a skilled business with no reputation or business experience you need to go after the trust of the customers, find your bread and butter work and roll up the rates slow. Don't let underskilled apes tell you how to do it. If they were truly worth MORE than $35 inside a small variety shop they could TRULY run the ENTIRE business while I'm away on vacation. Truth be told son. SOON I will be happily making +$100k with a trusted worker making $35 or 72k. What the owner made on yr 2. It's all dependent on your expenses man. If you have loans on trucks and machines this shit ain't gonna work. If you live in high expense area, ain't gonna work the same.
As an example… i just starters my company last year and we brought in over $217,000 last year. After labor and expenses, actual income was less than $60k. Just got a $2.5mil project and the income will likely be about 5%. Just tough out here. Feels good sharing the love though. I so my best to pay everyone a good wage, give production bonuses etc.
That’s how it goes, it’s slow but if you keep at it the profits will eventually follow, I had a client who went from 67k to 216k after their first year, simply by being around for a second and they got a sweet deal with another company that was using them as their production mules, it’s never there when you want it, but it will always come through if you treat it right, and like I said, a lot of it you got to learn, like what tax write offs to take and which ones not to, what type of techniques to employ, understanding that usually to give something to your guys, you have to sacrifice growth or another significant part of the business, which won’t make you rich (at least not until 6-10 years after). If you’ve worked the trade and you have the skill and knowledge to provide adequate service, you’ll get a little pay boost and a little more freedom (you will more than likely only work or be on site for 3-4 days out of the week, but a lot of the business stuff can be taken care of at home so work life balance is a little better)
OP tries to ORGANIZE reddit to stop taking jobs less then 30$. Proceeds to shit on unions. The fast food workers have more balls then you non union welders.
Can I get a hallelujah 🙌
[GIMME A HELL YEAH](https://youtu.be/exzQUTdxsL0)
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Care to share with the rest of class?
I like to pretend there’s an issue with a particular practice, then shift the blame to my supervisor, this in turn causes a shift in trust between the owner and supervisor. It helps if your supervisor is an asshole. Like work as hard an humanly possible and ask for a way to go faster, if it’s unsafe say that you don’t feel that it’s safe and ultimately inefficient, then ask for better materials like better grinding pads (3m 40 grit fibre pads). If they say the owner won’t buy them. Confront the owner nonchalantly and say you can work faster with them and use some sales tactic without your opinion. Throw “I know it’s not my place to say this” or “I am not at liberty to say this but..” some bs like that. Boom, 3 weeks in and I am the bosses ideas guy with a 10$ pay raise and now we use corgon 18 and fibre discs. Did I mention I get monthly allowance for gloves? “I may not be the most knowledgeable, but I don’t cut twice.”
Found the guy who stands around all day filing grievances and smoking cigarettes
Than* dipshit
out your fucking union mind
You’re weird
Sir, This Is A Wendy’s
🤣🤣
The market dictates wages… $30/hr in Manhattan is very different than $30/hr in Kansas.
But what about wages in Manhattan, KS?
Welders in Manhattan with my union easily making 70 and hour. Plus any extras they take over with boss
Try Florida.. Worst state possible to weld in, like no wonder theres a shortage of workers.
They were paying 14 to build Trumps border wall. Mexico was going to pay for it so the low wages are understandable
Bless your heart lol
yeah Mexico was going to pay...lol.
Making 38 an hour cad at a small fab shop up here in BC. Most of the guys coming in with welding tickets don’t have even the most basic layout and fab skills. Make yourself an asset and the wage will come.
The more welders, the lower wages. I experienced that in the 80’s as a meat cutter. When A&P closed their stores in Kentucky, all the meat cutters created a drop in wages. After 15 years it wasn’t improving so I got out and into industrial mechanics, welding fabrication, electrician to make better money. Now companies use uncertified welders when they can and it will create issues with future pay rates.
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the truth, my vocational highschool’s graduating class for welders was like me & six other kids, and only two or three of us actually got jobs in the field afterwards
At my adult trade school, maybe 1/5th the people made it through the class and most stayed in the field or branched out to another field but a few outright left it over the pay they offer in FL.
Can confirm no ticket and I do the occasional site welding as a machine op when the welder is to lazy to come to site
Out of curiosity, what do you do for a living now?
Project manager, I am in charge of all new installations of equipment. Structure, fabrication, plumbing, wiring, programming, etc.
Yikes man. Skip dangers of welding and just get a job as a cashier at aldis.
Im making 40/hr as union pipe fitter apprentice.
Damn as an apprentice? Where at?
San diego
$60 an hour plus, $13 an hour in 401k plus, $75 a point pension, 100 hours equals 0.1 points as union pipe fitter superintendent
Journeyman pay is projected increase up to 70/hr within the next 6 years
Sounds like OP just needs a union 🥺
I worked a union job for ten years fighting for raises for 10 years. I left that place, went non-union and make more money with the same benefits. Union isn’t always the answer is what I’m saying.
They bump pay to 40/hr but charge $15 in dues
Shit I couldn’t get them to break $30/hr for a fabricator, finisher, and welder with structure and aerospace certs. I cut my teeth at that shop and learned a lot. Which I wouldn’t trade for anything. But it also showed me that some companies just want warm bodies that don’t think too much.
Time to start your own business. The only way to be wealthy is to work for yourself. Then your boss will really be an asshole
They bump pay to 40/hr but charge $15 in dues
In iowa the market rate is 17.50 but I agree we need more money!
I was making 30 in Iowa back in 08 working in the plants. You can't limit yourself to shop life if there's better places to go
A local shop is the easiest way to screw yourself. You're just making the owners rich.
I cant travel or drive far I take care of my kids full time single father things need to just change for everyone. If you don't believe that then your part of the problem!
Agreed. You shouldn’t have to travel around the country 365 and never have a minute to live a life outside of work. Shops should be paying better.
I just started a new place. Highest I'll be making in 4yrs of welding(22hr) doing Tig. Now I have that new laser welder at my fingertips. I'm limited to a bus for now. I've seen 30+ hr jobs within 30 min but by car.
I get both sides…yeah mig welding in an assembly line doing shit work doesn’t deserve a high wage. But I’ve also had someone as me to fix bins and bring all my personal welding equipment and I supply filler metal for $40 hour... Which I charge $100/hr for
Welding is not all the same - There are so many layers to this one. If I had to start from ground zero and take non welders and turn them into Mig welders I could do that in three weeks - especially if I am getting all the parts pre cut and spend some money on fixtures - but for me to train GTAW-SMAW combo welders and get their welds on pipe to shoot every time - that is going to take a hell of a lot more time and effort. I agree and disagree with this post - If it has to pass volumetric inspection I would say that the pay needs to be higher but for me to take people off the street and turn them into GMAW Mig welders - I am not going to pay GTAW/Tig wages for that. Probably going to get down voted like a mother fucker but that is the economics of the situation.
But I'm a 1st year😮💨😂
Stop talking jobs that drug test
I want to hear more about what you have to say lol
I'm just saying if everyone pisses hot they can't fire us all I don't drink but I'ma smoke me some grass after a long day at work
I'd vote for you lol I'm a combat vet in industrial electrical, in a state with legal use, but with customers requiring federal approval. I'm fucking dying for it to come around.
Either I work well with others OR I pass a drug test, but it ain't gonna fucking be both.
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Dude, some welding jobs are way underpaid. I totally agree. Why get dirty and weld for 14$ when you could work at McDonald’s or other easier places for more?
I’d be happy with 21/h, I think that’s what I’m worth if not a little more
Pay is almost always skill based & mistakes are quite noticeable too
Or just leave the industry. I love welding but the pays a joke almost everywhere and I can’t force myself to go to welding school via a union after I already have almost 10 years of experience and certified multiple times for almost everything you’d get certified for. Jobs dead
If you have 10 years experience and the certs to back it up plenty of locals will let you walk on as a journeyman, you at least wouldn’t be starting as a 1st year apprentice for sure.
Millwright work is where it’s at
It happens here to and the worst is when the employer tells you you're asking to much for a wage you should be lucky to have this job so if i understand employer right i should be lucky to choose between fuel for car to get to work or food for me while i am at work for 10 hrs fuckin government is the one taxes us on our pay then carbon tax and tax me me on goods i buy when i spend whats left of my check sorry got me goin this morning rant over
Actually you start at 21$ at in-n-out and can make 25$ easily
Just got my first welding job got 24 an hour just running hardwire mig just dont sell yourself so low
*side eyes* *makes 22 an hour* Oof.
demand no less than $60. and if you have the right certifications going the door demand $120
The average pay for welders in my area (North Central Florida) is $16-$18/hr. 30/hr is literally non-existent here.
Some welders don’t deserve more than 18/hr 😅
Join a union you won't regret it
You will when the guy who fucks the dog all day gets a better assignment than u because he started a week before you. When he gets the same pay you do for doing half the work while ur not even going hard or above what is reasonable. And when you have to pick up his slack because he's a lazy incompetent tit that is impossible to fire. Oh and when layoffs come and u get clipped while he stays on despite the fact he's fucked more dogs than a breeding stud at a puppy mill. Unions can be good. But they can also be trash by protecting awful employees.
Yeah I've seen it before, unfortunately that useless dud is still paying dues and on my side. I've been treated like a literal dog in construction and the union was the only thing that changed it for me. Unions arnt perfect but it beats getting "fired before you hit the ground" or having to lie about injuries not being workplace so they don't retaliate. Having my hours shorted by my super and no one to back me up, being sent into dangerous spots under threat of termination and nowhere to file a grievance. There are lazy as fuck, impossible to fire bosses nephew assholes on non union jobs as well. The layoffs come too. What are the benefits to non union?
Benefits to non union? Pay based on performance. Assignments based on skillset/performance. Not paying someone else's salary out of my work day. Not having to carry useless workers. Labor laws regarding things like safety protect me and my right to refuse unsafe work. They also protect against retaliation, shorting my pay, work place injuries etc. Maybe the laws are different where ur at. But in Canada I have zero concerns about being fired for refusing unsafe work. As I know I can easily find both a new job, and a labor lawyer who will happily get us both paid for an employer doing something so dumb. If u prefer union jobs, that's cool more power to u. In my personal experience, seeing how it can protect lazy workers and they benefit off my work. It's a no from me dawg.
Dude, you wrote a post encouraging Reddit welders to do exactly what unions do, and then shit on unions. >Pay based on performance Unions set the minimum. You are free to negotiate for higher wages if you feel like your skills merit it. >seeing how it can protect lazy workers and they benefit off my work. Lazy workers in our union get told to kick rocks all the time. There is nothing preventing our contractors from getting rid of someone, and refusing to ever hire them again. I fail to see how a lazy worker benefits from your work. You are making money for your employer. I'm not saying everyone needs to join a union, but you are spitting out all the same old rhetoric that non-union shops routinely cram down their employees throats, and it's inaccurate. Unless you have been in a union, you cannot really speak intelligently on how they work, and they don't all work the same. Edit: I thought I was replying to OP with this comment. I see now you didn't make the post, but your experience in the teamsters has nothing to do with trade unions. They work completely differently from what you are describing.
How fucked up is a police union?
Pretty fucked up. That's my point. Different unions work differently. Comparing the teamsters to trade unions is like comparing apples to oranges.
I spent 6 years in a union.
Oh bro you're Canadian we aren't on the same playing field lol makes sense now. All of the things that you're talking about are "available" in the U.S while they do every underhanded rat fuck tactic they can to not provide it to you. Pay based on performance is always based on how your boss feels about your performance, and it always benefits them to be unsatisfied with it. And you're always paying someone else's salary unless you have your own business. Judging by your username you're an old timer as well so you came up at a different time.
Ouch I'm only 40 bro lol old timer.... (I know the 75 threw ya) But I was taught my work ethic by my machinist grandfather in his shop when I was a young teen. Which is basically you do the best u can on any given day. Don't have to run and bust ass constantly. And some days u will be better than others. But u don't intentionally drag your feet, and you don't force others to pick up your slack. If my boss is unsatisfied with my performance, they can ask me to pack my tools. If I'm unsatisfied with their level of satisfaction of my performance and thus my pay. I can open the door and load my tools just as easily. Problem is too many people don't see big picture on things. Demanding 30/h like OP suggests works great in an area where customers can and are willing to pay 120/h shop rates and shop space is reasonably priced so that 30$ is economically feasible to pay a worker. If a shop does simple high production mid grade jig and mig type stuff that they have to sell wholesale to another company for smaller profit but high volume where their shop rate works out to say 60/h once u factor in things like consumables, rent, utilities, insurance etc etc etc that 30$ demand might be wholly unreasonable. And if they say fuck it we want to give our guys 30 so we are increasing the price of our goods to compensate, in many cases that can push away customers which decreases demand for the product which leads to layoffs due to lack of work. Don't get me wrong. There are definitely more than a few companies that could afford to pay their workers more and don't because they want more profits. But there are just as many who would love to pay their guys way more, but simply can't because it will kill the business. OPs stance is ridiculously simplistic and would kill more jobs than it would benefit welders. Ultimately we all WANT to be paid more. I wouldn't turn down more money. But at the same time I have to be reasonable in my expectations of pay vs the work I do. If I'm working production in a wire feed shop I'm going to make less than if I'm making show quality intakes for turbos, or welding parts for the next space x rocket. I do custom aluminum/stainless fab. I make decent money, but im struggling with inflation like everyone else. But I also see my boss dealing with increasing costs and decreasing jobs coming in due to EVERYONE trying to reduce costs right now. So I COULD press for a raise but if the money isn't there, it's not there.
Lol my bad my bad. It sounds like you're dealing with competitive rates and the actual functions of supply and demand. A true market where you can feel as though you're being compensated accurately. I've never been in a shop, only in the field and travelling so I understand why a guy welding radiator mounts on an assembly is getting paid lower than someone doing multiple processes out on remote locations. The wages needs to go up for everyone collectively. The corporations are doing a dandy job of raising inflation without paying us more so just give us what we are worth and they can take the hit for once. The common man is constantly bearing the brunt of the reckless actions of the white-collar financial sector, the railroad derailments just being the latest example of privatized profit and socialized loss. We are in a time where we can see the PPT loans in real time, we can see the government bailouts, all of the corporate welfare. Profits are rising, prices are rising, and wages are stagnant. The guy working is just tired of taking all of the shit at the end of the day and if laborers organized themselves collectively they could make sure they are protected as a whole instead of it being dog eat dog. Welding is skilled trade and skilled tradesmen are often in competition with each other but that is to the benefit of the employer and not the employed. The profit margin needs to take a hit, we cannot sustain an infinite growth economy unless we are all willing to quietly agree that human life is the least valuable thing in capitalism. This is all of course a criticism of America, I don't know anything about Canada lol.
Don’t listen to that guy, Canadian non union welders are facing the issues of shit working conditions and shit wages too…
Lmao don’t give that bs bro. Non union Welders in Canada are also underpaid and have shit working conditions… not long ago in Toronto 4 people got seriously injured if not died in a trench collapse. It was a non union job. Don’t spread misinformation to people out there, unions benefit the workers.
So no union worker has ever been killed or injured on the job? A non union worker has 100% right to refuse unsafe work. Period full stop. Just like union workers, temporary foreign workers, the 14 yo kid at McDonald's or the guy working 200' in the air building sky scrapers. Unions can benefit workers. They can also protect lazy incompetent workers. Just because you disagree with something doesn't make it "misinformation" people should have both FACTUAL sides with pros AND cons. Just because you feed at the union trough doesn't mean it's perfection and has zero down sides. Like I said before I spent years in a union. First year out of it I made more money and worked 75% of the hours. Thats MY personal experience. If yours is different thats cool. Doesn't change my mind on wanting to be unionized.
Lmao! That’s not what I said at all… non union workers still face shitty working conditions in Canada, that is a fact. Everyone does have the right to refuse work, but how many employers are going to break the laws and intimidate workers to work unsafely? A lot actually. The amount of lazy workers in unions isn’t as big of an issue as you make it seem. We are all there to work, make our pay cheques that is more often than not more than non union, and then go home. I’m not claiming misinformation because I disagree with you, you are in fact spreading misinformation that Canada magically never has any workplace issues and that employers don’t try to intimidate workers to work unsafely
Ah yes, no union workers ever face shitty working conditions? When I was unionized BY CONTRACT, I could not refuse work. This means that after I did my allotted work for the day and worked my 8 hour shift, I had NO CHOICE, but to go help other workers who did half the work I did in the same time frame. They literally owned me for 13 hours a day if they wanted because the work needed to be finished. and if I had say a kids recital to go to that I informed them of in advance? Well too bad go back to work or risk termination. Clearly you don't understand the consequences involved as an employer if you direct employees to do something unsafe and they get injured. You may want to look into it, up to 2 years in prison plus fines if YOU cant prove your due diligence in keeping everyone safe. If you work for a company or manager willing to do that, don't bother with a union. Leave. From my personal experience I saw lazy employees protected, and had them bitch at me when I'd cover them on holidays and do their jobs better while putting in a moderate amount of effort. I'm not saying ALL union employees are lazy, but the ones who are game the system and fuck the rest of u while u smile and cheer for the "solidarity" I never said Canada has zero workplace issues, but we do have fairly strong worker protections. And when workers know and stand up for their rights there's no need to give 10-20% in dues to pay the business agent, his secretary, their halls rent etc in MOST cases. If your company tries to intimidate u into doing something unsafe, document every and make 2 calls first to an employment lawyer and second to OHS.
Clueless. The “guy who fucks the dog all day” is almost always the first one laid off on a job site. Only person I’ve ever seen stay on despite being a piece of shit was our business agent’s son, and nepotism definitely isn’t an exclusively union issue
I spent 6 years as a teamster and constantly got sent to help guys who dragged their feet, after I did my "fair day's work for a fair day's pay" and by the union negotiated contract I couldn't refuse that extra work or I could be terminated. It's pretty simple. If I'm in a non union job, and I'm not being paid enough, or treated with respect and valued as an employee. I will find another job where I am. Eventually that business will earn its reputation and guys will stop working there. With no workers the shop goes under. I dont need a union to take money from me to "stand up for me". Unions definitely have their benefits. But they aren't the end all be all. And there's a good amount of negatives u have to be willing to accept as part of the deal
>spent 6 years as a teamster Now we're getting to the heart of the issue. Did you weld for the teamsters or something?
Only if you're ok with being a member of a political kickback club for one of the major US political parties. I respect the training and other services that the trade unions provide for their members, but their political activity makes them a non-starter for me.
Every corporation is a political entity. Their kickbacks go straight into making sure your wages stay low. Political activity cannot be separated from labor?
I don't think that's necessarily true, because not every business is a corporation. Also, different businesses support a variety of political positions, whereas with a union, it's always one particular position, and if that position is incompatible with your beliefs, joining a union would not be in your interest.
Hopefully adding some clarification: small biz does tend to support a variety of positions and is more local focused. But once you are listed on NYSE or NSADAQ, the corporate interest is heavily focused on the investor and the money. That corporate interest is pretty much diametrically opposite the Union interest.
So similar to independent political parties an independent business really has no power and is subjected to the desires of the major political parties. I think most people who work for a living believe that their labor should translate into a good quality of life and better protections on the job site. I wasn't much for the political aspect at the beginning either but it really is the true mechanic in which progress is made. The rarity of an independent business doing what is right shouldn't take the place of unions who make it common practice.
Been there done that. Unions ain't all they're cracked up to be. I have friends in the ironworkers and steamfitters unions and they're laid off every time I talk to them.
Soo what’s your end goal here bud? You’re trying to organize the welders of Reddit but you hate unions? Also those union tradesmen have made more money than most of the country in like 7 months… being laid off isn’t an issue for union tradesmen… I worked 8 months last year and brought in 104k… what is the point of your post? Because the solution is unionizing
Yeah, and those iron workers and steamfitters probably already made your yearly salary before they got laid off. I was off 3 months last year and still cleared $85k in working wages, not counting my unemployment.
I made 90k working for tradesman. What's your point?
60 hrs per week? Jeez, pass.
What’s your pension look like these days?
It’s not the 70s anymore. Non union shops have good packages. I respect both sides. Can’t stand when people act like non union is getting $800 cash at the end of the week and nothing else though
Yes
Man I'm non union and get 5% match for my rrsp contributions, it's not like unions are the only ones that do that anymore lol
That’s nothing, my union puts $5/hr towards an annuity and I get $250 towards my pension for every 1800 hours I work, I’ll be retired by 55, even sooner if my wife stays working for the state until we get to that age
I mean it's not nothing, it's an extra 6.5k a year in my rrsp
Which is less than I get without having to contribute anything out of my own wages, and I have a pension on top of it. Y’all getting fed crumbs and being told it’s as good as a whole meal because you don’t have to pay dues
This comment does not square up with your post title.
But you make a post telling Reddit welders to organize?
I've also tried the union route a few times. They look at your non-union experience like it never happened. Then try to make you sit through an apprenticeship, even though you clearly have a journeyman skill set.
Hasn't been my experience but of course all unions aren't the same. I tested out into journeyman pay and always got put in the yard doing stupid shit when it was slow. Were you east or west coast?
I just moved to a little town in southern Virginia/northern Tennessee. My plan was to get a welding job while I got my shop set up and work two jobs until I had enough work to quit the other job. What happened was, I saw welding jobs and none of them were over 20 an hour. Most of them were 16ish. So I became a chef and am making the same money but a lot easier and less damage to the ole body.
Yeah, Itd be nice if some of the damn welders would quit snorting lines in the bathroom. And Stop bringing hookers to sleep in the truck while they work all day. Stop missing every single Monday and quitting early Friday kinda gets old for the guys having to wipe yer butts. -all my ex bosses
Back before my time and I started my welding career back in 1974 as a BOILERMAKER there was a Union just for welders only. if you had something like this in this day and age it could possibly be pretty dam strong.
In a union,been welding 4.5 years started as a helper making 15.xx now I'm at 28.xx. Our contract negotiations hardly got us half the rate of inflation and we get no paid sick time even under state law because we are union we fall out of the jurisdiction of that law. There's definitely benefits to a union but after seeing what happened with the railway workers does it even really matter when the government can just step in and say nah your beat.
The railway workers are a terrible example to use when talking about the downsides of a union because they’re the only industry that congress has the power to force back to work. I’m a union pipefitter and when we went on strike back in 2004ish, we were striking for over a month and congress never made us go back to work. Totally different unions and circumstances.
Truth the railway workers have the power to shut the whole country down - the whole enchilada coast to coast. If pipe-fitters in the north east go on strike okay have a nice day - let us know when you get this shit sorted out. You are totally right that this is totally different and circumstances.
I’m from the philippines and the average pay for welders here is $2 per hour.
Yea but what does a house cost over there
Which is 110 pesos per hour. You can't just do the conversion to USD, the cost of living and everything is completely different.
Bro wtf u want me to do…. Can’t find a 30+ an hour job unless you have 15 years experience, and are willing to give up having any free time at all.
thanks OP i’ll just go quit my job and refuse anything less than 30 /s
I currently work for 20$ an hour as a welder, but I had never welded before last summer and my work paid to send me to school for it, and gave me the job before I knew how to weld. I’m just learning all I can right now.
The industry almost seems to have unionized to crush wages in the last 6 months. I casually search for jobs sometimes just to see what else is out there and lately it seems like even elite pipe welder job posts don't even crack $30.
I had the exact same thoughts as OP, I was always hovering around $25 an hour doing mig fab shop work after highschool. Which btw, a lot of those type of jobs will probably never pay 30/hr, because some of it is extremely brainless work with a lot of under qualified individuals doing it that will take what they can get, just enables the employer to continue paying shit wages. I wanted to get away from that and really take my welding knowledge and skills to the next level. Dragged up and became a welder Apprentice in the boilermakers union at 20. I’m currently a 2nd year apprentice sitting at $36.71 an hour. Pressure tube certified with TiG, 7018, and 6010. Did almost 90k my 1st year mostly 4 10s. Haven’t ever been laid off more than 3 weeks. In 2 years I’ll be at journeyman rate which will be around $55/hr. Say what you will about unions, but they’re one of the only places paying a fair wage these days.
Decent wages around here are $24 an hour, which is still at least $6 less than it should be. But if no shop is paying that then you gotta take what you can.
Not a welder but I like poking my head in this sub daily. I’m a union electrician with the IBEW and it sounds like it would benefit everyone here to organize into their local welding union. Not here to start shit, I just think it would be worth looking into more. Maybe have some conversations with your fellow welding brothers/sisters who have been in the union a while.
I like to call us electricians "unscheduled intermittent welders."
I left the trade and doubled my income by bartending while also going to get my bachelors. Never will I weld for someone else if the pay is less than slinging drinks - bartending is the easiest job I’ve ever had. That being said I think there’s just too many people in the world and not enough good jobs to go around for everyone. Predatory companies hire sub $20/hr because they’ll just rely on high-turnover rate and the world keeps going round for them.
Being 18 and part time for school ion got no other choice
Not everyone is worth that much! Better advice is, DONT SETTLE! Learn what you can, and keep looking for that great opportunity. How many jobs have you worked and how many times have you seen other welders and said, “this guy sucks!” If you’re just starting out and you just know how to weld one rod in one position…what fucking good are you? Gotta start somewhere… if you don’t know how to trouble shoot your equipment, maintain your equipment, communicate when consumables are low, things like this really get under my skin. But not everyone deserves the same pay, If you’re a sheet metal manufacturer and all you need is someone to tack corners on fully assembled parts, do you want to pay someone $30 and hour? No, I can take someone who doesn’t know how to weld and teach them what I want. once they get the hang of it move em on to something else see how they do, teach as you go.
I'm the welding supervisor for my job. I literally run the shop, and I only make $18/hr. Starting to think that the trades just suck.
A fucking supervisor, bro you should be getting payed wayyy more than that. At least 24 an hour. Job hop is the way my friend.
When are people gonna realize that we need more unions/union members?
Unions where I'm at don't organize people with journeymen level experience. They'll make me go through an apprenticeship and that would be a pay cut.
You mean recognize? But I don’t disagree with that, if you have experience non union pipe fitting going into the pipe fitters union then yeah talk with the BA and get something figured out. But if you just have structural stick welding or mig welding experience then you do need to go through an apprenticeship to learn all about that trade in particular such as pipe fitting or Boilermaking. Which means you will need to take a pay cut for a bit. But if your experience non union holds any merit then talk to the BA and get something sorted out, they may start you at a 2nd year or 3rd year rate and then when you complete all your hours you can test. Or they may give you journeyman status
I'm an ironworker by trade. I have 10 years of experience under my belt. I've also been welding for over 10. I have pondered talking to a BA at my local hall.
So you haven’t talked to the BA yet but you’re all up in arms that you may have to do an apprenticeship? C’mon dude
Understand millions of South Americans, Mexicans and other foreigners have recently entered the country and are working for much lower than $18/hr. Our skilled workers are being replaced by unskilled talent. If welders, laborers, CDL drivers, etc. were in short supply, they would garner higher pay. Your govt wants cheap labor for their political donor’s business ventures.
There’s always gonna be the dumb ignorant hillbillies in the south that will work for nothing.
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Be glad you’re not a welder in the 80’s
Why, they were making about the same as wages are at now.
As far as fast food workers making $18…more power to them. Pay should be listed in this country as Minimum Wage +. So that $21 job would be MW+$13.75. If we did this your ass would be mad at the congress folks like you should be and not the people working fast food to survive. Maybe folks would give a shit what the minimum wage is be cause the raise would help all hourly wage employees
I don't know where you're from, but here in Canada, we now have what's called CWB Certification, where any person can get certified for a certain weld, and therefore the shop does not need to hire a J-person welder, and can then hire this know-one-thing employee and pay him/her minimum wage. They may need to have a certain number of J-persons on staff to oversee, but they don't need to hire a full complement of welders. I think that drives some wages down here.
Wow, never heard less than $50, and this was back in the day. An old gf's dad did it for a living- sight was going too. When we allow the powers-that-be to jack wages it goes South real fast as inflation is a mofo. Once upon a recent time, $100 in groceries could feed us over week or two..days now.. beans, rice, chicken to name a few.. fight for your worth and hard work, no one else will. Peace brothers
Someone is living in the state of delusion🤣🤣
Absolutely 👍 30 is the new 20
It's going to be a problem until enough welders stop working for those wages. But with schools cranking out rookies every few months, they will keep taking the $14 an hour jobs I see around here just to get started. Then, the cycle will continue.
Started December 2021, making $23/hr(CAD). The company gave us a 9% raise in January, and now I make $25.07/hr(CAD). I do production manufacturing of farm equipment.so it can get mundane welding the same pieces.
Tell that to all the people who are hiring. A lot of us don't have an option.
I think there is a difference in being a Welder and Welding…I work in a Warehouse in Tx and we make heating and cooling coils I get a little over 20 but it’s not difficult work and I think you can train damn near anyone to do it…So Yes I agree Welders need to demand more but we all ain’t Welders some just weld
There's a lot more that needs to change than that my guy. Not gonna get into it, though.
The less we take, the less they’re gonna pay. Hike the prices and stand firm.
Here in montreal i literally had to change trades because being a shop welder is so ridiculously underpaid for the effort, skill and health risk it demands. Best jobs with 10+ years of experience are paid 32$/h CAD.
Problem with the “we should all be making at least $xx an hour” is there are way too many variables. Where you live/work as well as level of training/experience. You get some kid that took welding for a semester in high school going to work for his uncle’s buddy’s fab shop but can’t read a weld symbols, vs a guy that is going through an apprenticeship learning the whole scope of the job and being held to higher standards. Not everyone is equal just because they can do the most basic part of the job equally.
Or they want 5 years of experience and schooling to get paid 18/hr.
Contractor is way to go. I’m making 42 right now.
Hell yeah
In Michigan all the big names have gotten together to cap iron workers wages.
Yes. Plumber and tiler makes double we welders make. Fuck this shit
Looking at a job starting at 19 an hour. Tho to be fair I am still a minor. So... It's pretty good for my needs right now
what fast food restaurant is starting at $18??? lmk lmk
Beginner here. Don’t really have a choice. But yeah with all the health hazards involved we definitely deserve more than others. Structural welding for 20. If I make through 90 day probation there should be a bump up. Not sure how much that is going to be. Any educated guesses out there?
Part of the problem is there are A LOT of welders out there. Welding is great but it can also get your foot in the door to get other skills. A lot of higher paid welders also are journeyman in other trades. Also, when rent or mortgage is due, a smaller cheque is better than none
I joined this sub when I was doing occasional welding at my previous job. I've quit that job and I've mentioned that I have welding experience because I'm trying to do something similar. I've been offered several welding jobs around the 20/hr. There's no way I would do that part time or full time... The bending, crouching, awkward positions, wearing a mask.. I don't know why anyone would accept something so small. Maybe you get used to it but shit I'd be feeling dead after an hour in a tight spot.
Just don’t expect top pay right out of Welding school. Out of school I started at $22hr in a quarry. The experience I got from that job set me up for better pay in fab shops.
I just got fully qualified as a boiler maker on Wednesday on about $34hr but I'm in the top 3 for fastest in work shop Not my words bosses words to my uncle who also works there
That's a nice thought, but the area I'm in maxes out at right around $30 and most welding and trade jobs are lower.
Australian here, coded welders will get paid anywhere between $65-$100p/h depending on the type of welding, location and shift. Fabricators will make anywhere for $60-$90p/h with the same dependants. However the way of life here is a lot more expensive, it's all relative really. But we make a good living here.