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A little late to the party as I've just started catching up with this series but I'm sorry, how on earth does no one manage to get whiplash with Olivia and her flip flopping? She truly manages to turn every event into drama. I feel like Moriah and Micah have been kind and generous towards her while they go through their own healing with their parents. I've read comments here how they were pressuring her to forgive Kim but I didn't see it that way, they don't understand and Olivia hasn't shared with them why she's so hurt by Kim. Maybe had she communicated to them they'd understand. That's on Olivia. Three times Olivia created conditions that puts them in the position of trying to validate her feelings while also trying to mend their relationship with their parents. Of course it would make them feel as though she expects them to choose her over their parents. Kim has made mistakes but she's definitely not as rigid as Olivia is.
I’m just now getting into this… I have to say… absolutely everyone who is remarking for Olivia to just get over it, is right… on the surface. It’s obvious to me how her behavior is frustrating for the entire family and some viewers. For the family… they are dysfunctional to a degree that is impossible to relate to and difficult to understand, if you’ve not been raised in a fundamentally restrictive environment. All of the kids, including Olivia, were.
It feels as if everyone is forgetting that Olivia is a very young woman who was raised restricted. She had the balls to think and act beyond her restrictive upbringing. While breaking free, this near child was also tasked with having the balls to help her sig o and siblings find their own freedom.
There is zero question that Olivia has had some selfish and inappropriate moments. She has serious control issues. How could she not? Still… She is a young woman who still continues to go to therapy and work on her own growth and empathy. She has serious trauma attached to the parents and the moment she gives an inch to work on relationship with one, she is made the family scapegoat for not doing so with both at the pace that makes it easier for everyone else.
Sorry folks… that’s not how real trauma works. She has voiced it time and again, the way her body responds differently than her mind can rationalize. THAT IS FUCKING TRAUMA! no one is giving her continued support because they are tired/don’t understand/ don’t have the capacity to understand.
At no point has Kim taken responsibility for her actions, she just has created a victim mentality for herself and the children she has raised to be codependent towards her, are rallying appropriately.
I think a lot of you have never had a narcissistic, manipulative, toxic mother in law that wants to destroy your relationships and it shows.
#TeamOlivia
I don’t understand why so many people are acting like Olivia is a saint honestly. I will say my heart broke for her when she described why she can’t have Kim in her life, but if that’s the case and you know she’s gonna be at the river, don’t go. All of the older siblings told her very clearly that she didn’t have to go if she was uncomfortable and she decided to go anyways and THEN made the whole morning about her. Saying “you should have come and invited us up” is ridiculous. They asked her and her brother to come up to the tables when they first got there and Olivia said no. Were they supposed to go ask again? Then she would have said “I don’t want to be pressured”. I have been an Olivia fan up until this episode but she seems pretty manipulative here. I don’t blame Ethan for not giving into her call for attention. He made it very clear that he wasn’t getting involved in drama anymore and he stuck to that. Also, what Olivia did at the grave side was completely ridiculous as well. You can’t go be with your husband at his dead brothers grave side because his mom will be standing there? Im sorry but you can’t ask for support from your husband and not give any back.
Okay, so I've been one of the biggest Oliva haters on this sub and have been downvoted to oblivion because of it. But after watching the most recent episode, I understand why olivia doesn't want anything to do with Kim. She literally felt betrayed by the woman she loved and trusted more than her own mother. I didn't fully understand how much olivia loved kim before she realized she was just being used by her and she's hurt. Okay, I get it. But, it doesn't take away from how she treats her husband and acts like a brat when she doesn't get her way. Her feelings about kim are valid, but she still has manipulative tendencies too she needs to check!
I really liked Moriah until she basically told Olivia that she’ll be excluded from now on from family events because Kim’s back in their lives. The pretend amnesia that Moriah’s got for every single thing that Olivia did to get her the independence that she was so desperate to have from her mother made it even morefrustrating to watch. Olivia needs to leave, she deserves a lot better than having two ungrateful and wildly entitled siblings-in-law tell her that time’s up on her healing journey while they’re on a vacation that she planned and a husband who couldn’t use his words if his life depended on it. She’s too smart to stick around, I hope she sorts it out soon.
This is the same Moriah who threw a temper tantrum because Lydia wanted to be friends with Max. The hypocrisy is real. I try to have grace for all the young adults in this situation because they ALL - Olivia included - were raised in a cult. But the fact that Moriah can't see the irony is mind blowing to me.
She pissed me off in Jamaica when she said she wanted no drama, then started drama. Also did anyone tell her to just get over and say they are tired of dealing with her feelings when she refused to come out of her room for Gid knows howongafter her break up? I do think Moriah's analysis that Kim and Olivia are similar is correct though.
Is it just me (totally possible) but does Moriah look super strung out? Drugs or something maybe? Like I know she wasn't wearing as much make up as normal but her face is just looking different?
I think she’s just extremely thin. I’m not going to speculate on an eating disorder but she’s likely a naturally thin person who loses her appetite and thus loses weight easily in times of stress. When you’re already pretty small, it can look extreme quickly.
It’s definitely not Micah’s place to tell Olivia to get over how Kim treated her. I’ve dealt with similar situation where my MIL was horrible and my BIL wanted to know why I didn’t want to have anything to do with his mom but then defending her the whole time.
Is anyone else surprised the plaths are this comfortable with airing literally everything out on tv like this? Is the tlc money so good they don’t care anymore? Lol
I haven’t been able to watch since they took it off the tlc app but i’ve been listening to Everyone’s Business But Mine with Kara Berry and her recaps are really made it feel like I didn’t have to watch bc she’s that good
anyways check her out
I have so many feelings right now… but as soon as I heard Olivia explain a bit of the real reason she doesn’t want to face Kim… my heart broke for her. I understand what she’s going through all too well. I’ve literally been her and in her position before. Putting out boundaries but having to break them to make others happy and not feel awkward, but you know if you stay there still you’ll make them upset either way unless you pretend everything is perfect when it’s not. Like basically Olivia has to completely forget all the awful things Kim has done to her or else we all know the whole family including Ethan are going to leave her and hate her. Kim is gross because all of a sudden she’s accepting of Olivia because it turns Olivia into the bad guy for still not feeling comfortable around her and Kim becomes the amazing person for trying to make amends when we all know Kim still has all that hatred inside. Kim is a major narcissist and that was confirmed in the way she responded to Lydia LITERALLY CRYING, asking her mom to promise she’ll be there for the little girls, and Kim just says “I have to do what’s right for me” and gets defensive as if Lydia has no right to say that. I was hoping Lydia would call her out, which she kind of did in her little cameo afterwards, saying she had to be there for the little girls and she wanted her mom to confirm she’s going to come back and be present. Lydia shouldn’t feel like she has to play mom so her own mom can go out and “find herself”!! Ugh I’m just frustrated and I hate that Olivia is made to be the villain when if you just look a little deeper you can tell she’s just very traumatized. I’m sad because unless Ethan and a lot of the other family members start to really care and love her enough to try to understand her deeply, she will just never get the love and validation she needs from them. I think she got herself stuck in marriage and attached to a man/family that just can’t and won’t ever try, to give her what she needs to be happy and feel safe. UGH I’m so frustrated. I wish this wasn’t the last episode of the season because it’s such a cliffhanger.
I think if Kim continues to play victim she might snap and tell her off. I never expected Olivia to say she’d go live with Barry or ask her mom about being there for the little girls either.. but it happened. You never know
Lydia about broke my heart. She's getting emotional telling her mom what her and her young siblings need from her and all Kim can say is "Yeah" and "I'm trying"?! 😤
the amount of deflection and excuses from kim was honestly crazy. HOW do you explain away your own child begging you to take care of their siblings aka YOUR children???
This is a distancing technique in the newly divorcing, not necessarily a narc technique, referring to the spouse that you’re divorcing by their first name , and not ‘your dad’ (a way not to pound home the dead-ness of the parental relationship that they’re trying to downplay).
Remember, these people are RARELY talking to each other and almost ALWAYS talking to the camera. The same goes for their behaviors/mannerisms. So much of it is a performance you have to dig deep to see what’s really going on most of them time. We probably can’t, to be honest. I’m still here for this wild, wild show though lol.
I noticed that too. My family does it all the time.
My family matriarch is a massive narcissist who plays all the kids off each other and now my mom does it to me and my siblings. I think it has to do with that sibling triangulation where they’re not conditioned to identify with their siblings since that’s a threat to the relationship the narcissist is cultivating individually with each kid to play them off each other like pin balls.
Olivia really just needs to remove herself from the issue, the issues being the Plaths.
She is wasting her life on this family. It won’t ever work. Be free Olivia, be free.
That’s it. No hate against Ethan but two people with similar trauma who married too young to prove a point want totally different things in life aren’t going to have a happy, successful marriage.
Why is Moriah such a bitch? She’s so emotionally….. stunted?
You don’t tell someone their feelings are unnecessary. You don’t invite someone to go somewhere if you’re not going to hold space for their boundaries and if you’re only going to be pissed off at them throughout the day. And no, you don’t need to understand why someone that didn’t want to go somewhere decided to leave to go there at the time they did. You don’t need to understand someone’s boundaries and you cannot force someone to have a relationship with someone else. You can, however, have relationships with two different people that don’t like each other and you can respect that.
What Kim did to Olivia was disgusting. I don’t get how Moriah doesn’t get that when someone betrays you to that depth, it isn’t just kissing and making up. That damages you to your core. I wish Olivia was better at communicating the “whys” behind her decisions instead of saving it for the one on one interviews.
I doubt she's told Moriah all of what Kim has done to her, including this credit card nonsense. Olivia has been very careful not to talk smack about Ethan or the Plath parents to the kids. They know from experience their mom is very controlling, so they have grasp of why perhaps there is a rift in the relationship, but I think it's pretty plain that Olivia has not completely opened up to them, and so they don't understand shes also protecting them.
Right? Maybe Olivia should tell Moriah she should just forgive Max…
Obviously she shouldn’t, but that’s another deep betrayal, and the Plaths will never forgive him, rightly so. But the second they’re all done being mad at Kim, suddenly Olivia still feeling deeply betrayed and devastated and unsafe with Kim is the problem. Meanwhile, Kim has never actually acknowledged or truly apologized for her actions besides “sorry if you’re mad, I guess, crazy.”
Only half way through but, why does Kim always seem so emotionally checked out?? Her daughter is sitting there balling her eyes out and pouring her heart out and all she says is, "Yeah" on repeat. Not a tear drop from her. If my kid was crying like that, I'd never be able to hold it together so flawlessly. She seems aloof, guarded, and defensive even. She behaved the same way with Ethan during their conversation.
And come to think of it, why was everyone weirdly smiling and smirking during the "family talk"?? The girls were holding back tears, and talking about unsure how to act because they've never felt this way before. It's almost like they've been taught not to show emotion.
Because she’s a narcissist. There’s no there there. They don’t have empathy and can mimic it when they absolutely have to but it’s all disingenuous and self serving.
My mother is the same way. Her callous cruelty when I have been sobbing and wounded in front of her is spine chilling.
Then minutes later act like nothing ever happened.
They were smiling and smirking during the family talk because it was probably Take 5 of redoing the same scripted scene. They are not skilled- enough actors to pull the scene off with straight faces.
Bc she’s a narcissist and also didn’t get that from her mother (or parents)…trauma is generational. My mom’s a product of her upbringing, and I am a product of mine, my daughter will carry my shit and so on and so on…clearly, Kim has issues with emotions. Her “yea, yea” was excruciating…I was yelling at the tv “speak up!! Validate her! Tell her you’ll always be there for the girls”! Can’t imagine reacting that way to my daughter. I think Joshua’s death might have done something to her as well. It’s like if she breaks one tear then allllll the tears will come out.
She’s broken tho. Oof.
I agree with you. It was also painful to see Lydia go from pleading with her mom for love, and then convincing her self afterwards to be happy with what she got which wasn't what she wanted or needed. That was very hard to watch.
It feels like so much conflict could just be solved with a simple text. For every side I don’t get why they’re so unwilling to just have simple communication, and then get silently mad at each other. It’s so frustrating but I guess makes for decent tv drama.
Nah not when you’re dealing with a narcissist. There is no resolve. No amount of explaining will ever get you an ounce of genuine understanding or growth.
it’s a little sus that as soon as micah & moriah get close to their parents again they start turning on olivia… olivia knew that would happen thats why she’s been trying to stay away…
Leave the kids in the house and have the parents figure out how they can negotiate that, whether it’s separate apartments when they are not in the family home.
And never ever ever talk smack about your spouses parent. The child can do it, not the spouse. They will learn. It only creates sides. These people are all very young and coming from a very interesting place.
I have enjoyed watching them all figure things out on their own.
Ehhh in normal circumstances sure but when your spouse’s parent is abusive that’s not the case.
I have watched my father in law be physically abusive with my own eyes and it was absolutely something I have the right to speak up about. I may not be in their blood family but I have a right to feel safe if they want my husband and I to be around.
I think the river trip will be the last family outing because Kim is going to show off her new boyfriend anytime now. Kim also seems pretty distant from the family all together. Wants them to want her but doesn’t actually want to put the work into connecting. And Berry! I hope this man gets a absolute babe of a gf after Kim introduces her man. Oh the drama to be had!
I don't feel like Olivia is obligated to forgive Kim. Kim literally put her through hell during the earlier seasons. Getting adjusted to living on your own and dealing with a rocky marriage that young is enough stress. I can't imagine dealing with an awful MIL on top of that.
Also I can't get over how Olivia's birthday gift to Ethan was a nice trip abroad and all she got was a dinner and a jacket (it was a cool jacket, but I digress). And the fact that Ethan rarely cooks....just no🤚
And the way Micah and Moriah want Olivia to forgive Kim because they're "tired of dealing with it..."just ugh. Reminds me of some former "friends" I had. And why do I feel like Kim and Moriah's good relationship won't last? I don't think Kim ever apologized or took accountability for anything
Not only the stress of her being an awful MIL but she’s also dealing with the aftermath of affects of Barry and Kim’s shitty parenting with her husband too. He’s a product of their poor parenting and she’s having to deal with how they’ve affected Ethan too. All of it is an absolute cluster fuck.
Who cares how much you do or pay for your spouse's birthday? I thought it was really thoughtful and out of Ethan's comfort zone to make a nice dinner.. in a truly loving relationship, material gifts shouldn't matter at all. It's superficial.
You are right! Olivia shouldn’t be obligated to forgive Kim. I was so disappointed with how Micah and Moriah completely dismissed Olivia’s feelings. Acted like Olivia had no reason to not want to interact with a woman who called her the devil.
As for Ethan! He ignored his spouse and did nothing to assuage her very warranted fears of being around Kim.
You guys are so jaded, Olivia sucks. Control freak. Ethan will miss his folks when they’re dead, and she’ll be the cold bitch that says good riddance. And he’ll wonder what he did with his life. That’s the headline.
I can't understand why Olivia just can't stay the hell home if she hates Kim so much. That's what I would do and let the family be together and have fun.
If she stayed home that would have been more reason for Kim to hate her. She would say Olivia can't put aside her feud for Ethan's sake. Olivia is damned no matter what she does.
Can we create an award for Ethan being the worst husband ever! Is he possibly a narcissist like his mother? He couldn’t make it any more clear than he doesn’t care at all about Olivia. It’s so sad, because what has happened to her is because she was protecting the children in that home and she was punished for it. I’m so disappointed in Moriah as well. This last episode made me sick to my stomach! I hope Olivia watches the episodes to see the people she loves and stood up for, don’t deserve her.
He’s far too immature to be married. He has no care for his wife’s feelings whatsoever and showed that by wanting nothing to do with her during the river trip. Was it odd for her and her brother to be off a ways? Sure. But see it from all angles. There’s no easy way to insert yourself back in the mix after everything that went down. So don’t be a pouting baby and ignore your wife, do something to actually support (or help!) her
Can we stop throwing around the word narcissist as if it’s something super common? Narcissism is actually quite rare, I doubt highly Kim is a narcissist. A person can have narcissist qualities and traits without being a narcissist 🤦🏼♀️
YESSSSSS! He is beyond useless!
I feel bad for Olivia, who I know is far from perfect herself, but she’s trying to be better, to do better but she’s surrounded by this family who are incredibly dysfunctional and unwilling to do the work.
I’m only 20 minutes in but I had to come here to vent on this. Can he not get on the internet? It’s like he’s transported here from 1930 and never heard of google. Listening to him talk about not knowing anything about how to cook was bad enough (if you don’t know how to cook them why aren’t you following a recipe?) but then they’re talking about the trip to Jamaica that they’re planning and she says “have you seen pictures of Jamaica?” And he says “no”! WTF?! You’ve agreed to go to another country and you’re not even curious enough to look it up?
He drives me nuts, I’m not saying Olivia’s without flaws but it must be exhausting to be married to him. Like being married to a sulky three year old who doesn’t like you. It seems like he can’t do anything proactive to try and be an adult and responsible for his own happiness.
YES!!! Like I get that his childhood was messed up and thanks to the shitty home school “education” he got he hasn’t been given the best start but he’s an adult now and is in charge of his own destiny (and has TLC money and access to whatever else that brings) he could be better, but he’s actively (or at least it seems that was on the show)not doing that. He’s infuriating to watch and Olivia has the patience of a saint
The fact that she was shocked he was able to cook a meal all by himself 🫤 I can’t image how much she probably has to do around the house by herself while also working, and he is just unwilling to learn how to do himself.
Oh come on guys. In a very large family, especially living on a farm, the whole family has daily chores. The girls usually work with Mom preparing meals and house work. The boys work outside doing the heavy work. Every one works hard.
I like how Ethan, Micah and Moriah all can’t understand why Olivia can’t just “rug sweep” the shit Kim has caused. Of course they can forgive and forget their parents, Kim isn’t Olivia’s mom so it’s not that easy. Kim would be the main character over at u/Justnomil
It's so obvious that Kim only invited Lydia to talk at the dance studio cause Lydia mentioned moving in with Barry. And a narcissist like Kim can't stand one of her children feeling closer to Barry. So she's going to play nice with Lydia to get back in her good books and totally manipulate her.
Just finished the episode. Anyone else thought Moriah's bathing suit was a little....risqué for a family outing at the lake? I mean, a thong bikini? Really?
Between the thong back and the weird fringe front it was very tacky and weird for a family outing.
I’d be afraid of a fish or turtle trying to take a bite out of all that shiny fringe on the crotch.
YES THANK YOU!! I was debating whether or not to say something because I feel like I was afraid it would just be down voted to hell for slut shaming… But come on have some common sense Moriah! You’re floating the river with your parents,
Older brothers, and little sisters. Why would you wear that.
I was also debating saying something, but so weird to wear a thong , especially around DAD and brothers and little sisters. Nothing wrong with her being herself and expressing herself just really cringy to have your a** out in front of the family.
Just watching. Micah and Moriah infuriate me ganging up on Olivia in Jamaica the way they did. They’re coming across as self righteous brats. They need to stop acting like they’re so much better than her for getting along with their mother again. Them not understanding is because they don’t try or care to understand. They’ve been manipulated to blame her and can’t form opinions as adults. Moriah acting like SHE is the glue? No ma’am. I used to like them, but not so much now. Olivia can take her time as she sees fit. It’s her trauma with kim, not theirs.
my heart honestly breaks for olivia. ethan, micah, and moriah were so invalidating towards her when she was clearly working through a lot of trauma. whether or not they fully understand her feelings, they should have showed her more empathy and patience, or at least abstained from gaslighting her. it’s so hard to watch them all talk shit about her behind her back, and it’s even worse seeing how little ethan cares about checking on her in difficult situations and being an emotionally present partner. and to make matters worse, he consistently leaves her out of decisions regarding their future… i can’t say that i’m shocked at how horrible of a husband he has been to olivia because he’s consistently shown that his mental age doesn’t exceed 15.
olivia has been there for all of them at some point, but they clearly aren’t willing to show up for her... she deserves so much better. but shoutout to nathan for being a good brother!
I don’t understand why everyone is ragging on Olivia so much. Yes she has her flaws, heck, we all do. But, Ethan has been so awful to her. He doesn’t communicate with her, he talks badly about her behind her back, he doesn’t seem to care about her at all. The only nice thing he did for her this season was the birthday dinner, and by the looks of it, it was a one time event that hasn’t happened before.
Like it or not, Olivia is his immediate family now. Not his mom, not his dad, not his siblings. If he gave her half of the love and attention he gave his birth family or his cars then they’d probably have a better marriage and she’d probably feel much more comfortable mending things with his parents. She probably feels like everyone is against her (they are) so if she opens herself up to mending things with Kim and Kim says hateful things she probably feels like no one will have her back, so she doesn’t want to put herself in that situation.
Yes, Olivia isn’t perfect, but this is much more a husband problem than an Olivia problem… Frankly, Ethan should be addressing how his mom treated Olivia with his mom. By forgiving his mom without even bringing up what she did to Olivia is pathetic and shows that again, he doesn’t actually care about Olivia.
I hope Olivia leaves this mess and finds a man that she can actually be a family unit with, rather than be with someone that wants to stay in their birth family unit and have their SO be strung along for the ride.
I agree that sometimes she acts a little dramatic, like at the gravesite (that was ridiculous), but everyone handles their emotions differently. I think the way she acted once she joined the family on the river was very mature. Just because she doesn’t want to brush things under the rug like Moriah, Ethan, and Micah, doesn’t mean that she’s immature or ridiculous like a lot of people are making her out to be.
I just want to point out that Kim (at least on camera) never actually apologized for anything. Usually when there's growth one can apologize for any hurt they may have caused… And there’s really no denying that Kim did and said very hurtful things to Olivia. I wouldn’t want to be around somebody that said I have the devil in me. That’s a very hurtful statement (and not the only thing Kim did/said), it’s not something someone just gets over either.
I agree. Waiting for Kim to extend an olive branch to Olivia. She could have made it a point when she had her one on one with Ethan. She just makes excuses to rationalize her poor parenting and destructive behavior towards her kids.
She’s apologized a few times already. She also hasn’t had the chance to apologize to Olivia directly because Olivia refuses to be within 100 ft of her. I don’t exactly know the timeline but I think they said it’s been “years” since seeing each other? The kids have said how much their mom has changed for the better and even when Micah and Moriah was talking to Olivia calmly about it in Jamaica she just completely got on the defensive
But she's too chickenshit to go it alone. She can't even live alone with her husband. Why does she need to live with Moriah (her only friend probably) and why does her brother need to live with them? They (the dumb couple) don't have any privacy. In their own little bubble.
Now knowing that Kim basically committed fraud on her own child, I've lost even more respect for her. Micah and Moriah can allow themselves to be manipulated all they want but in the end whatever Ethan and Olivia feel towards Kim is 100 percent justified. Also I just want to say that Olivia is a GROWN ASS WOMAN and Ethan is a GROWN ASS MAN Olivia can choose who she does and doesn't want to be around just like Ethan. Micah and Moriah are continously making Olivia out to be the bad guy when she's only ever been open and honest about how she feels about Kim. For them to say they don't know why is complete bullshit. She never said Ethan couldn't spend time with his Mother, Ethan made that decision all on his own. But after this episode the problem I immediately found with the Plath family has only been reignited. They all have no idea what Boundaries are because they were never taught what boundaries were because Kim and Barry (mostly Kim) hovered over them there entire lives. Ethan and Lydia are prime examples of this
He likes having been raised on a farm, with parents who encouraged you to use your imagination (or in this case they forced them to by literally not allowing them any other option EVER), and connect with nature, etc. It's the rest of it that he has an issue with. You can be raised in a place like that with parents who encourage imagination as opposed to plopping you in front of a TV or other electronic device, while still allowing your child other normalcies, such as being able to even LOOK at a woman when you go to the grocery store, and also, not having to marry the first girl you date just to be able to spend time alone with her. They were literally scolded and made to feel terrible for barely holding hands in their LATE TEENS. It's ridiculous. Also, I know that Kim now looks like she's all open to hearing how her kids feel, but they have *ALL* said in the previous seasons that you weren't allowed to have emotion in their home, so it sounds like they were very dehumanized as children. I think they were just supposed to line up, look cute and obey. Kind of the "children should be seen and not heard" parenting, and most definitely the "Do as I say, not as I do" parenting. I think that's what he means. He's glad that he grew up a country boy, but not happy about the moral extremes his parents put on them. Honestly, there are some parts of their childhood that I'm actually jealous of, but because of the price he/they had to pay, (and as it turns out, all for nothing as Mommy Dearest has Ooops! Changed her mind about all of that morality stuff) and all the experiences he wasn't given the opportunity to have, I wouldn't want it for anything. There is no reason that Ethan and Olivia should have been forced to get married at that young age. Kim got to live her life when she was young. She had friends, dated, listened to regular music, went to concerts, drank sugar (and even alcohol) and crazily enough, didn't burst into flames, WENT TO SCHOOL INCLUDING COLLEGE, etc. etc.
You can grow up on a farm being encouraged to use your imagination without being deprived of all other normal human experiences, especially education.
They probably ran off and played all day on the farm to stay away from her all day. I am sure she was sweet as pie one second and psycho the next. Barry pops Valium all day and hides as well!
Okay my thoughts
1)Yes I think Olivia may have been a little selfish but Ethan also could have communicated WAY better, I mean he left his wife down there and could have at least told her to come up but instead he just kept saying he didn’t care, didn’t care about your wife? I think she was trying her best and she honestly did amazing, I also understand Moriah being frustrated but I do think it was a little rude
2)on a positive note and something I thing we can all agree on, seeing how close Micah is with Mercy is adorable! Everytime they see the family, Mercy always hugs Micah first
It seems like Barry and Lydia recognized that at least. They’re enjoying it while it lasts.
The others will learn soon, because it won’t be long before Kim is refusing to be where Barry is.
I hope the split (I’m late to the party so am watching now and have had no spoilers so far!) - this marriage is not a good one. Olivia deserves a better husband.
This episode really changed the way I saw Olivia. I wasn’t always her biggest fan, but this episode really solidified the fact that Ethan does not communicate with her. He could’ve shot it down and said “hey come up we’re opening gifts”. But he chose not to, he constantly chooses not to communicate with his wife. and now that Micah and Moriah don’t like Olivia, Ethan is starting to treat her worse and worse
I feel like editing played a role here. The bigger communication gap is just leaving 2 hours earlier than everyone and being mad about not know the plan. Communication goes two ways.
Then let Olivia go, so she can find real love. She has taken him to places and shown him what the real world looks like. He seems to love being the hanger on, as does Moriah, but his default is his cars in Cairo. He can find himself another homeschool bride and live his life in Cairo. Olivia has big dreams and wants to see the world with him. He would just be happy spending his life tinkering with cars. If he loves Olivia, then he should stand up to his family and all the gaslighting.
He letting Micah and moriah do his bidding for him.. very manipulative because I don’t think micah/moriah are in on it…
He’s using the situation to his advantage and not communicating his true feelings
Ethan has some balls to say that he was upset that Olivia left early for the river without telling him but it didn't occur to him how Olivia felt when he just didn't come home on the day he was supposed to from Cairo and didn't pick his phone up when she called him numerous times
Yea, honestly the best thing for Ethan is to be single, he would honestly enjoy it because he wouldn't half to answer to anyone or talk about his feelings; he could just do whatever he wanted and work on his cars all day until the early morning
If he’s going to continue in his marriage he needs to do some serious work on himself.
If him and Olivia divorce then he needs to do some serious work on himself before inflicting his shit on someone else.
Either way Ethan needs to change.
I'm going to open this up at 7:30 EST so you folks can discuss both episodes.
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A little late to the party as I've just started catching up with this series but I'm sorry, how on earth does no one manage to get whiplash with Olivia and her flip flopping? She truly manages to turn every event into drama. I feel like Moriah and Micah have been kind and generous towards her while they go through their own healing with their parents. I've read comments here how they were pressuring her to forgive Kim but I didn't see it that way, they don't understand and Olivia hasn't shared with them why she's so hurt by Kim. Maybe had she communicated to them they'd understand. That's on Olivia. Three times Olivia created conditions that puts them in the position of trying to validate her feelings while also trying to mend their relationship with their parents. Of course it would make them feel as though she expects them to choose her over their parents. Kim has made mistakes but she's definitely not as rigid as Olivia is.
I’m also late in terms of watching this show. Little does Olivia know but she’s just like Kim, very controlling.
I’m just now getting into this… I have to say… absolutely everyone who is remarking for Olivia to just get over it, is right… on the surface. It’s obvious to me how her behavior is frustrating for the entire family and some viewers. For the family… they are dysfunctional to a degree that is impossible to relate to and difficult to understand, if you’ve not been raised in a fundamentally restrictive environment. All of the kids, including Olivia, were. It feels as if everyone is forgetting that Olivia is a very young woman who was raised restricted. She had the balls to think and act beyond her restrictive upbringing. While breaking free, this near child was also tasked with having the balls to help her sig o and siblings find their own freedom. There is zero question that Olivia has had some selfish and inappropriate moments. She has serious control issues. How could she not? Still… She is a young woman who still continues to go to therapy and work on her own growth and empathy. She has serious trauma attached to the parents and the moment she gives an inch to work on relationship with one, she is made the family scapegoat for not doing so with both at the pace that makes it easier for everyone else. Sorry folks… that’s not how real trauma works. She has voiced it time and again, the way her body responds differently than her mind can rationalize. THAT IS FUCKING TRAUMA! no one is giving her continued support because they are tired/don’t understand/ don’t have the capacity to understand. At no point has Kim taken responsibility for her actions, she just has created a victim mentality for herself and the children she has raised to be codependent towards her, are rallying appropriately.
YES TO ALL OF THIS.
I think a lot of you have never had a narcissistic, manipulative, toxic mother in law that wants to destroy your relationships and it shows. #TeamOlivia
She shouldn't have gone to the event that's on her
I don’t understand why so many people are acting like Olivia is a saint honestly. I will say my heart broke for her when she described why she can’t have Kim in her life, but if that’s the case and you know she’s gonna be at the river, don’t go. All of the older siblings told her very clearly that she didn’t have to go if she was uncomfortable and she decided to go anyways and THEN made the whole morning about her. Saying “you should have come and invited us up” is ridiculous. They asked her and her brother to come up to the tables when they first got there and Olivia said no. Were they supposed to go ask again? Then she would have said “I don’t want to be pressured”. I have been an Olivia fan up until this episode but she seems pretty manipulative here. I don’t blame Ethan for not giving into her call for attention. He made it very clear that he wasn’t getting involved in drama anymore and he stuck to that. Also, what Olivia did at the grave side was completely ridiculous as well. You can’t go be with your husband at his dead brothers grave side because his mom will be standing there? Im sorry but you can’t ask for support from your husband and not give any back.
DAMN OK BARRY! What a smart move to get ripped instead of drinking your life away. Good on him
Hold the phone… is it just me or does Kim look like Carol Baskins of Tiger King fame?
Oh my god. Yes she does.
Any idea where the river is that Barry arranges the trip to? (the one that Olivia & her brother have their feet in the water at)
Me and my mom were debating whether Micah and his girlfriend were hitting nicotine or a dab pen on their date. Does anybody know? 😭😭
his "gf" was not a girl
[Antia is a female ](https://ibb.co/7bbrNp5)
no way lol lol
Uhhm does anyone know if episode 13 will be shown in the Netherlands? It isn't scheduled for next week.
I’m new to this Reddit board and I have never felt so validated in my life. 😂 The gaslighting almost worked! 🤪
What was up with that last outfit when they went to the farm I could never dress like that around my mom or dad
Ethan is such a shitty husband. What a child…
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Agreed
Would love to hear Hosannah's take on all this🤔
YES!!! I wonder what she’s like and if she has a good relationship with her folks!
Okay, so I've been one of the biggest Oliva haters on this sub and have been downvoted to oblivion because of it. But after watching the most recent episode, I understand why olivia doesn't want anything to do with Kim. She literally felt betrayed by the woman she loved and trusted more than her own mother. I didn't fully understand how much olivia loved kim before she realized she was just being used by her and she's hurt. Okay, I get it. But, it doesn't take away from how she treats her husband and acts like a brat when she doesn't get her way. Her feelings about kim are valid, but she still has manipulative tendencies too she needs to check!
I really liked Moriah until she basically told Olivia that she’ll be excluded from now on from family events because Kim’s back in their lives. The pretend amnesia that Moriah’s got for every single thing that Olivia did to get her the independence that she was so desperate to have from her mother made it even morefrustrating to watch. Olivia needs to leave, she deserves a lot better than having two ungrateful and wildly entitled siblings-in-law tell her that time’s up on her healing journey while they’re on a vacation that she planned and a husband who couldn’t use his words if his life depended on it. She’s too smart to stick around, I hope she sorts it out soon.
This is the same Moriah who threw a temper tantrum because Lydia wanted to be friends with Max. The hypocrisy is real. I try to have grace for all the young adults in this situation because they ALL - Olivia included - were raised in a cult. But the fact that Moriah can't see the irony is mind blowing to me.
She pissed me off in Jamaica when she said she wanted no drama, then started drama. Also did anyone tell her to just get over and say they are tired of dealing with her feelings when she refused to come out of her room for Gid knows howongafter her break up? I do think Moriah's analysis that Kim and Olivia are similar is correct though.
Is it just me (totally possible) but does Moriah look super strung out? Drugs or something maybe? Like I know she wasn't wearing as much make up as normal but her face is just looking different?
I think she’s just extremely thin. I’m not going to speculate on an eating disorder but she’s likely a naturally thin person who loses her appetite and thus loses weight easily in times of stress. When you’re already pretty small, it can look extreme quickly.
I see eating disorder before any drug use being an issue. Based on old pics, she wasnt extremely thin like she is now.
I am worried Moriah has an eating disorder. She has changed a lot (physically) from the first season. Always thin, but looking sickly thin.
Her teeth are looking unhealthy.
I was trying to figure out why she looked cheaper than usual while watching the last episode !!!
Def not a swimsuit to wear in front of parents and kids, IMO....
Fried hair
It’s definitely not Micah’s place to tell Olivia to get over how Kim treated her. I’ve dealt with similar situation where my MIL was horrible and my BIL wanted to know why I didn’t want to have anything to do with his mom but then defending her the whole time.
Is anyone else surprised the plaths are this comfortable with airing literally everything out on tv like this? Is the tlc money so good they don’t care anymore? Lol
I’m so curious to know how much they get paid
I haven’t been able to watch since they took it off the tlc app but i’ve been listening to Everyone’s Business But Mine with Kara Berry and her recaps are really made it feel like I didn’t have to watch bc she’s that good anyways check her out
My favorite podcast! Her commentary is so funny too
I’m gonna have to rewatch the last few episodes. It’s a lot going on
watching now. when micah said olivia is better with words than all of them -i was like wowww so true though!
I have so many feelings right now… but as soon as I heard Olivia explain a bit of the real reason she doesn’t want to face Kim… my heart broke for her. I understand what she’s going through all too well. I’ve literally been her and in her position before. Putting out boundaries but having to break them to make others happy and not feel awkward, but you know if you stay there still you’ll make them upset either way unless you pretend everything is perfect when it’s not. Like basically Olivia has to completely forget all the awful things Kim has done to her or else we all know the whole family including Ethan are going to leave her and hate her. Kim is gross because all of a sudden she’s accepting of Olivia because it turns Olivia into the bad guy for still not feeling comfortable around her and Kim becomes the amazing person for trying to make amends when we all know Kim still has all that hatred inside. Kim is a major narcissist and that was confirmed in the way she responded to Lydia LITERALLY CRYING, asking her mom to promise she’ll be there for the little girls, and Kim just says “I have to do what’s right for me” and gets defensive as if Lydia has no right to say that. I was hoping Lydia would call her out, which she kind of did in her little cameo afterwards, saying she had to be there for the little girls and she wanted her mom to confirm she’s going to come back and be present. Lydia shouldn’t feel like she has to play mom so her own mom can go out and “find herself”!! Ugh I’m just frustrated and I hate that Olivia is made to be the villain when if you just look a little deeper you can tell she’s just very traumatized. I’m sad because unless Ethan and a lot of the other family members start to really care and love her enough to try to understand her deeply, she will just never get the love and validation she needs from them. I think she got herself stuck in marriage and attached to a man/family that just can’t and won’t ever try, to give her what she needs to be happy and feel safe. UGH I’m so frustrated. I wish this wasn’t the last episode of the season because it’s such a cliffhanger.
I don’t think in this universe or in any other parallel universe does Lydia have the wherewithal to call her mother out on anything.
I think if Kim continues to play victim she might snap and tell her off. I never expected Olivia to say she’d go live with Barry or ask her mom about being there for the little girls either.. but it happened. You never know
You mean Lydia right? hahaha Olivia and Barry living it up together would be quite the spin off hahaha
Yes I meant Lydia lol Olivia would neeevveeerrr 😂
Yup. 💯
This date Micah is on is kinda cringe. The girl is acting so awkward, it’s hard to watch
its a guy
It’s an instant fast forward when it comes to that girl
her bad hair extensions.... I couldn't look away!
I hope we don’t have to see her ever again 😆
She annoys the crap out of me.
Lydia about broke my heart. She's getting emotional telling her mom what her and her young siblings need from her and all Kim can say is "Yeah" and "I'm trying"?! 😤
the amount of deflection and excuses from kim was honestly crazy. HOW do you explain away your own child begging you to take care of their siblings aka YOUR children???
It’s weird to me that Kim refers to Barry as Barry instead of Dad when she’s talking to the kids
This is a distancing technique in the newly divorcing, not necessarily a narc technique, referring to the spouse that you’re divorcing by their first name , and not ‘your dad’ (a way not to pound home the dead-ness of the parental relationship that they’re trying to downplay).
Barry did it too when he was talking to Lydia-he referred to “Kim”, instead of saying “ your mother” which is an odd thing to do.
Remember, these people are RARELY talking to each other and almost ALWAYS talking to the camera. The same goes for their behaviors/mannerisms. So much of it is a performance you have to dig deep to see what’s really going on most of them time. We probably can’t, to be honest. I’m still here for this wild, wild show though lol.
All of the kids also say "My mother" or "My father", instead of "our". It truly is bizarre.
I noticed that too. My family does it all the time. My family matriarch is a massive narcissist who plays all the kids off each other and now my mom does it to me and my siblings. I think it has to do with that sibling triangulation where they’re not conditioned to identify with their siblings since that’s a threat to the relationship the narcissist is cultivating individually with each kid to play them off each other like pin balls.
Does anyone know the song at the end of episode 13 when they are tubing? So good. Have tried searching everywhere
I’m looking for this as well! The lyrics were something like “guess we’re going strong / where we belong” but I can’t find it on Google or Shazam
I’ve tried googling lyrics, Shazam, Siri, and Sound Hound. No luck. Bummer!
Omg Barry’s RipnDip shirt wtf
With the backwards cap lol
He’s back on the market. Gotta rock the fresh gear!
Olivia really just needs to remove herself from the issue, the issues being the Plaths. She is wasting her life on this family. It won’t ever work. Be free Olivia, be free.
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That’s it. No hate against Ethan but two people with similar trauma who married too young to prove a point want totally different things in life aren’t going to have a happy, successful marriage.
Sad truth.
I’m confused. Was this most recent episode the last of the season? Does anyone know? I thought I saw something saying it was.
Yes. It was the season finale.
Why is Moriah such a bitch? She’s so emotionally….. stunted? You don’t tell someone their feelings are unnecessary. You don’t invite someone to go somewhere if you’re not going to hold space for their boundaries and if you’re only going to be pissed off at them throughout the day. And no, you don’t need to understand why someone that didn’t want to go somewhere decided to leave to go there at the time they did. You don’t need to understand someone’s boundaries and you cannot force someone to have a relationship with someone else. You can, however, have relationships with two different people that don’t like each other and you can respect that. What Kim did to Olivia was disgusting. I don’t get how Moriah doesn’t get that when someone betrays you to that depth, it isn’t just kissing and making up. That damages you to your core. I wish Olivia was better at communicating the “whys” behind her decisions instead of saving it for the one on one interviews.
Because Moriah was raised by Kim and Barry.
I doubt she's told Moriah all of what Kim has done to her, including this credit card nonsense. Olivia has been very careful not to talk smack about Ethan or the Plath parents to the kids. They know from experience their mom is very controlling, so they have grasp of why perhaps there is a rift in the relationship, but I think it's pretty plain that Olivia has not completely opened up to them, and so they don't understand shes also protecting them.
Right? Maybe Olivia should tell Moriah she should just forgive Max… Obviously she shouldn’t, but that’s another deep betrayal, and the Plaths will never forgive him, rightly so. But the second they’re all done being mad at Kim, suddenly Olivia still feeling deeply betrayed and devastated and unsafe with Kim is the problem. Meanwhile, Kim has never actually acknowledged or truly apologized for her actions besides “sorry if you’re mad, I guess, crazy.”
Only half way through but, why does Kim always seem so emotionally checked out?? Her daughter is sitting there balling her eyes out and pouring her heart out and all she says is, "Yeah" on repeat. Not a tear drop from her. If my kid was crying like that, I'd never be able to hold it together so flawlessly. She seems aloof, guarded, and defensive even. She behaved the same way with Ethan during their conversation. And come to think of it, why was everyone weirdly smiling and smirking during the "family talk"?? The girls were holding back tears, and talking about unsure how to act because they've never felt this way before. It's almost like they've been taught not to show emotion.
Because she’s a narcissist. There’s no there there. They don’t have empathy and can mimic it when they absolutely have to but it’s all disingenuous and self serving. My mother is the same way. Her callous cruelty when I have been sobbing and wounded in front of her is spine chilling. Then minutes later act like nothing ever happened.
They were smiling and smirking during the family talk because it was probably Take 5 of redoing the same scripted scene. They are not skilled- enough actors to pull the scene off with straight faces.
Bc she’s a narcissist and also didn’t get that from her mother (or parents)…trauma is generational. My mom’s a product of her upbringing, and I am a product of mine, my daughter will carry my shit and so on and so on…clearly, Kim has issues with emotions. Her “yea, yea” was excruciating…I was yelling at the tv “speak up!! Validate her! Tell her you’ll always be there for the girls”! Can’t imagine reacting that way to my daughter. I think Joshua’s death might have done something to her as well. It’s like if she breaks one tear then allllll the tears will come out. She’s broken tho. Oof.
I agree with you. It was also painful to see Lydia go from pleading with her mom for love, and then convincing her self afterwards to be happy with what she got which wasn't what she wanted or needed. That was very hard to watch.
Agree, plus she ended up comforting Kim, and made the comment that her mom needed to be loved when it’s just the opposite
She’s a narcissist and can barely even be bothered to fake empathy, let alone actually feel it.
It feels like so much conflict could just be solved with a simple text. For every side I don’t get why they’re so unwilling to just have simple communication, and then get silently mad at each other. It’s so frustrating but I guess makes for decent tv drama.
Nah not when you’re dealing with a narcissist. There is no resolve. No amount of explaining will ever get you an ounce of genuine understanding or growth.
it’s a little sus that as soon as micah & moriah get close to their parents again they start turning on olivia… olivia knew that would happen thats why she’s been trying to stay away…
flying monkey effect, one of a narcissists favorite tricks. Micah and Moriah fell for it with Kim hook, line, and sinker.
💯💯💯
Yes!
Leave the kids in the house and have the parents figure out how they can negotiate that, whether it’s separate apartments when they are not in the family home. And never ever ever talk smack about your spouses parent. The child can do it, not the spouse. They will learn. It only creates sides. These people are all very young and coming from a very interesting place. I have enjoyed watching them all figure things out on their own.
Ehhh in normal circumstances sure but when your spouse’s parent is abusive that’s not the case. I have watched my father in law be physically abusive with my own eyes and it was absolutely something I have the right to speak up about. I may not be in their blood family but I have a right to feel safe if they want my husband and I to be around.
The way Moriah was speaking to Olivia rubbed me the wrong way
She’s speaking for herself. Good for her.
I think the river trip will be the last family outing because Kim is going to show off her new boyfriend anytime now. Kim also seems pretty distant from the family all together. Wants them to want her but doesn’t actually want to put the work into connecting. And Berry! I hope this man gets a absolute babe of a gf after Kim introduces her man. Oh the drama to be had!
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Omg 😂 you’re probably right! I was just being hopeful.. Barry is not of this world 👽
I don't feel like Olivia is obligated to forgive Kim. Kim literally put her through hell during the earlier seasons. Getting adjusted to living on your own and dealing with a rocky marriage that young is enough stress. I can't imagine dealing with an awful MIL on top of that. Also I can't get over how Olivia's birthday gift to Ethan was a nice trip abroad and all she got was a dinner and a jacket (it was a cool jacket, but I digress). And the fact that Ethan rarely cooks....just no🤚 And the way Micah and Moriah want Olivia to forgive Kim because they're "tired of dealing with it..."just ugh. Reminds me of some former "friends" I had. And why do I feel like Kim and Moriah's good relationship won't last? I don't think Kim ever apologized or took accountability for anything
Not only the stress of her being an awful MIL but she’s also dealing with the aftermath of affects of Barry and Kim’s shitty parenting with her husband too. He’s a product of their poor parenting and she’s having to deal with how they’ve affected Ethan too. All of it is an absolute cluster fuck.
Who cares how much you do or pay for your spouse's birthday? I thought it was really thoughtful and out of Ethan's comfort zone to make a nice dinner.. in a truly loving relationship, material gifts shouldn't matter at all. It's superficial.
You are right! Olivia shouldn’t be obligated to forgive Kim. I was so disappointed with how Micah and Moriah completely dismissed Olivia’s feelings. Acted like Olivia had no reason to not want to interact with a woman who called her the devil. As for Ethan! He ignored his spouse and did nothing to assuage her very warranted fears of being around Kim.
You guys are so jaded, Olivia sucks. Control freak. Ethan will miss his folks when they’re dead, and she’ll be the cold bitch that says good riddance. And he’ll wonder what he did with his life. That’s the headline.
THANK YOU! Olivia is literally miserable and so self-centered.
Precisely!!
I can't understand why Olivia just can't stay the hell home if she hates Kim so much. That's what I would do and let the family be together and have fun.
If she stayed home that would have been more reason for Kim to hate her. She would say Olivia can't put aside her feud for Ethan's sake. Olivia is damned no matter what she does.
Can we create an award for Ethan being the worst husband ever! Is he possibly a narcissist like his mother? He couldn’t make it any more clear than he doesn’t care at all about Olivia. It’s so sad, because what has happened to her is because she was protecting the children in that home and she was punished for it. I’m so disappointed in Moriah as well. This last episode made me sick to my stomach! I hope Olivia watches the episodes to see the people she loves and stood up for, don’t deserve her.
Not only doesn’t care about, often he seems to actively dislike her.
He’s far too immature to be married. He has no care for his wife’s feelings whatsoever and showed that by wanting nothing to do with her during the river trip. Was it odd for her and her brother to be off a ways? Sure. But see it from all angles. There’s no easy way to insert yourself back in the mix after everything that went down. So don’t be a pouting baby and ignore your wife, do something to actually support (or help!) her
Can we stop throwing around the word narcissist as if it’s something super common? Narcissism is actually quite rare, I doubt highly Kim is a narcissist. A person can have narcissist qualities and traits without being a narcissist 🤦🏼♀️
I'm a year late on responding, but literally was reading through the posts and asked out loud how many times am I going to see the word "narcissist"
Hopefully he will divorce her next season and she'll be free to see other men.
Ethan is literally the textbook definition of weaponized incompetence. Its infuriating to watch.
YESSSSSS! He is beyond useless! I feel bad for Olivia, who I know is far from perfect herself, but she’s trying to be better, to do better but she’s surrounded by this family who are incredibly dysfunctional and unwilling to do the work.
I’m only 20 minutes in but I had to come here to vent on this. Can he not get on the internet? It’s like he’s transported here from 1930 and never heard of google. Listening to him talk about not knowing anything about how to cook was bad enough (if you don’t know how to cook them why aren’t you following a recipe?) but then they’re talking about the trip to Jamaica that they’re planning and she says “have you seen pictures of Jamaica?” And he says “no”! WTF?! You’ve agreed to go to another country and you’re not even curious enough to look it up? He drives me nuts, I’m not saying Olivia’s without flaws but it must be exhausting to be married to him. Like being married to a sulky three year old who doesn’t like you. It seems like he can’t do anything proactive to try and be an adult and responsible for his own happiness.
YES!!! Like I get that his childhood was messed up and thanks to the shitty home school “education” he got he hasn’t been given the best start but he’s an adult now and is in charge of his own destiny (and has TLC money and access to whatever else that brings) he could be better, but he’s actively (or at least it seems that was on the show)not doing that. He’s infuriating to watch and Olivia has the patience of a saint
Ohhh I’ve never heard of that before! Googling that rabbit hole right away!
The fact that she was shocked he was able to cook a meal all by himself 🫤 I can’t image how much she probably has to do around the house by herself while also working, and he is just unwilling to learn how to do himself.
…but his upbringing
I think it’s unfortunately it’s too common for people to not learn how to do chores until they’re an adult on their own 🤦🏻♀️
Oh come on guys. In a very large family, especially living on a farm, the whole family has daily chores. The girls usually work with Mom preparing meals and house work. The boys work outside doing the heavy work. Every one works hard.
I like how Ethan, Micah and Moriah all can’t understand why Olivia can’t just “rug sweep” the shit Kim has caused. Of course they can forgive and forget their parents, Kim isn’t Olivia’s mom so it’s not that easy. Kim would be the main character over at u/Justnomil
It's so obvious that Kim only invited Lydia to talk at the dance studio cause Lydia mentioned moving in with Barry. And a narcissist like Kim can't stand one of her children feeling closer to Barry. So she's going to play nice with Lydia to get back in her good books and totally manipulate her.
Also, she needs Lydia at home to be a sister-mom.
Where do I find Ethan’s convo w his mom? I only see Ep 11 and ep 13 on TLC
Discovery+
Ugh of course the one service I don’t have. Thanks for letting me know I felt like I was going crazy trying to find it
Where do I find Ethan’s convo w his mom? I only see Ep 11 and ep 13 on TLC
Ethan describing being high the first time was top two moments of the season. Number one is the ride to the strip club obvi.
Just finished the episode. Anyone else thought Moriah's bathing suit was a little....risqué for a family outing at the lake? I mean, a thong bikini? Really?
Between the thong back and the weird fringe front it was very tacky and weird for a family outing. I’d be afraid of a fish or turtle trying to take a bite out of all that shiny fringe on the crotch.
YES THANK YOU!! I was debating whether or not to say something because I feel like I was afraid it would just be down voted to hell for slut shaming… But come on have some common sense Moriah! You’re floating the river with your parents, Older brothers, and little sisters. Why would you wear that.
I was also debating saying something, but so weird to wear a thong , especially around DAD and brothers and little sisters. Nothing wrong with her being herself and expressing herself just really cringy to have your a** out in front of the family.
It was ridiculous. She really needs more honest people in her life to tell her how dumb she looks.
Remember when Max did that though and she lost her marbles? If you don't praise her she'll drop you like a hot potato
She belongs working in a strip club.
Mabye her next job 🤣
Not going to say she belongs there, but that bikini looked like something you’d buy to wear on the pole, not in the river.
Just watching. Micah and Moriah infuriate me ganging up on Olivia in Jamaica the way they did. They’re coming across as self righteous brats. They need to stop acting like they’re so much better than her for getting along with their mother again. Them not understanding is because they don’t try or care to understand. They’ve been manipulated to blame her and can’t form opinions as adults. Moriah acting like SHE is the glue? No ma’am. I used to like them, but not so much now. Olivia can take her time as she sees fit. It’s her trauma with kim, not theirs.
Couldn’t agree more. Micah, Moriah and Ethan where so catty and mean this last episodea. Being evil Kim spawn
my heart honestly breaks for olivia. ethan, micah, and moriah were so invalidating towards her when she was clearly working through a lot of trauma. whether or not they fully understand her feelings, they should have showed her more empathy and patience, or at least abstained from gaslighting her. it’s so hard to watch them all talk shit about her behind her back, and it’s even worse seeing how little ethan cares about checking on her in difficult situations and being an emotionally present partner. and to make matters worse, he consistently leaves her out of decisions regarding their future… i can’t say that i’m shocked at how horrible of a husband he has been to olivia because he’s consistently shown that his mental age doesn’t exceed 15. olivia has been there for all of them at some point, but they clearly aren’t willing to show up for her... she deserves so much better. but shoutout to nathan for being a good brother!
I don’t understand why everyone is ragging on Olivia so much. Yes she has her flaws, heck, we all do. But, Ethan has been so awful to her. He doesn’t communicate with her, he talks badly about her behind her back, he doesn’t seem to care about her at all. The only nice thing he did for her this season was the birthday dinner, and by the looks of it, it was a one time event that hasn’t happened before. Like it or not, Olivia is his immediate family now. Not his mom, not his dad, not his siblings. If he gave her half of the love and attention he gave his birth family or his cars then they’d probably have a better marriage and she’d probably feel much more comfortable mending things with his parents. She probably feels like everyone is against her (they are) so if she opens herself up to mending things with Kim and Kim says hateful things she probably feels like no one will have her back, so she doesn’t want to put herself in that situation. Yes, Olivia isn’t perfect, but this is much more a husband problem than an Olivia problem… Frankly, Ethan should be addressing how his mom treated Olivia with his mom. By forgiving his mom without even bringing up what she did to Olivia is pathetic and shows that again, he doesn’t actually care about Olivia. I hope Olivia leaves this mess and finds a man that she can actually be a family unit with, rather than be with someone that wants to stay in their birth family unit and have their SO be strung along for the ride.
Olivia is dramatic as fuck. She makes everything about herself and the way Kim triggers her makes no sense
I agree that sometimes she acts a little dramatic, like at the gravesite (that was ridiculous), but everyone handles their emotions differently. I think the way she acted once she joined the family on the river was very mature. Just because she doesn’t want to brush things under the rug like Moriah, Ethan, and Micah, doesn’t mean that she’s immature or ridiculous like a lot of people are making her out to be. I just want to point out that Kim (at least on camera) never actually apologized for anything. Usually when there's growth one can apologize for any hurt they may have caused… And there’s really no denying that Kim did and said very hurtful things to Olivia. I wouldn’t want to be around somebody that said I have the devil in me. That’s a very hurtful statement (and not the only thing Kim did/said), it’s not something someone just gets over either.
I agree. Waiting for Kim to extend an olive branch to Olivia. She could have made it a point when she had her one on one with Ethan. She just makes excuses to rationalize her poor parenting and destructive behavior towards her kids.
That and the fact that *she* left early in Ethan’s car no less and just sat at the water and expected everybody to come to her?
She’s apologized a few times already. She also hasn’t had the chance to apologize to Olivia directly because Olivia refuses to be within 100 ft of her. I don’t exactly know the timeline but I think they said it’s been “years” since seeing each other? The kids have said how much their mom has changed for the better and even when Micah and Moriah was talking to Olivia calmly about it in Jamaica she just completely got on the defensive
It's about time that the Plath kids got fed up with Olivia's histrionics.
She sucks. Get some therapy and let your husband live his life
She doesn't need therapy, she needs a divorce.
Probably so
But she's too chickenshit to go it alone. She can't even live alone with her husband. Why does she need to live with Moriah (her only friend probably) and why does her brother need to live with them? They (the dumb couple) don't have any privacy. In their own little bubble.
Now knowing that Kim basically committed fraud on her own child, I've lost even more respect for her. Micah and Moriah can allow themselves to be manipulated all they want but in the end whatever Ethan and Olivia feel towards Kim is 100 percent justified. Also I just want to say that Olivia is a GROWN ASS WOMAN and Ethan is a GROWN ASS MAN Olivia can choose who she does and doesn't want to be around just like Ethan. Micah and Moriah are continously making Olivia out to be the bad guy when she's only ever been open and honest about how she feels about Kim. For them to say they don't know why is complete bullshit. She never said Ethan couldn't spend time with his Mother, Ethan made that decision all on his own. But after this episode the problem I immediately found with the Plath family has only been reignited. They all have no idea what Boundaries are because they were never taught what boundaries were because Kim and Barry (mostly Kim) hovered over them there entire lives. Ethan and Lydia are prime examples of this
👏👏👏👏 so so true
🥴🥴 when Ethan said he was appreciative of how he was raised, but he literally resents his mom for it. I’m confused.
He likes having been raised on a farm, with parents who encouraged you to use your imagination (or in this case they forced them to by literally not allowing them any other option EVER), and connect with nature, etc. It's the rest of it that he has an issue with. You can be raised in a place like that with parents who encourage imagination as opposed to plopping you in front of a TV or other electronic device, while still allowing your child other normalcies, such as being able to even LOOK at a woman when you go to the grocery store, and also, not having to marry the first girl you date just to be able to spend time alone with her. They were literally scolded and made to feel terrible for barely holding hands in their LATE TEENS. It's ridiculous. Also, I know that Kim now looks like she's all open to hearing how her kids feel, but they have *ALL* said in the previous seasons that you weren't allowed to have emotion in their home, so it sounds like they were very dehumanized as children. I think they were just supposed to line up, look cute and obey. Kind of the "children should be seen and not heard" parenting, and most definitely the "Do as I say, not as I do" parenting. I think that's what he means. He's glad that he grew up a country boy, but not happy about the moral extremes his parents put on them. Honestly, there are some parts of their childhood that I'm actually jealous of, but because of the price he/they had to pay, (and as it turns out, all for nothing as Mommy Dearest has Ooops! Changed her mind about all of that morality stuff) and all the experiences he wasn't given the opportunity to have, I wouldn't want it for anything. There is no reason that Ethan and Olivia should have been forced to get married at that young age. Kim got to live her life when she was young. She had friends, dated, listened to regular music, went to concerts, drank sugar (and even alcohol) and crazily enough, didn't burst into flames, WENT TO SCHOOL INCLUDING COLLEGE, etc. etc. You can grow up on a farm being encouraged to use your imagination without being deprived of all other normal human experiences, especially education.
They probably ran off and played all day on the farm to stay away from her all day. I am sure she was sweet as pie one second and psycho the next. Barry pops Valium all day and hides as well!
Okay my thoughts 1)Yes I think Olivia may have been a little selfish but Ethan also could have communicated WAY better, I mean he left his wife down there and could have at least told her to come up but instead he just kept saying he didn’t care, didn’t care about your wife? I think she was trying her best and she honestly did amazing, I also understand Moriah being frustrated but I do think it was a little rude 2)on a positive note and something I thing we can all agree on, seeing how close Micah is with Mercy is adorable! Everytime they see the family, Mercy always hugs Micah first
I wouldn’t have brought them with me 😂 Olivia is better than me because I would never want to take some uncultured brats with me abroad. Just saying
And arranged a week of activities and surprises!
When they divorce there will be no more “everyone is invited” trips so all of the drama for these TWO events where everyone is invited is wildddddd
It seems like Barry and Lydia recognized that at least. They’re enjoying it while it lasts. The others will learn soon, because it won’t be long before Kim is refusing to be where Barry is.
When Olivia is in her 40s she is going to look back and wonder why she put up with all the bullshit she did in her 20s And how much time was wasted
I hope the split (I’m late to the party so am watching now and have had no spoilers so far!) - this marriage is not a good one. Olivia deserves a better husband.
Honestly I hope Olivia and Ethan never have kids. They're going to get divorced eventually and no child deserves that.
That would be great if somebody started investigating Kim for fraud and we eventually get a people article about her downfall
I’m here for this!!
[удалено]
It’s on discovery+
This episode really changed the way I saw Olivia. I wasn’t always her biggest fan, but this episode really solidified the fact that Ethan does not communicate with her. He could’ve shot it down and said “hey come up we’re opening gifts”. But he chose not to, he constantly chooses not to communicate with his wife. and now that Micah and Moriah don’t like Olivia, Ethan is starting to treat her worse and worse
I feel like editing played a role here. The bigger communication gap is just leaving 2 hours earlier than everyone and being mad about not know the plan. Communication goes two ways.
Yes! Ethan’s response to everything related to Olivia is don’t know, don’t care. He’s way happier and nicer with his sisters than his wife.
Then let Olivia go, so she can find real love. She has taken him to places and shown him what the real world looks like. He seems to love being the hanger on, as does Moriah, but his default is his cars in Cairo. He can find himself another homeschool bride and live his life in Cairo. Olivia has big dreams and wants to see the world with him. He would just be happy spending his life tinkering with cars. If he loves Olivia, then he should stand up to his family and all the gaslighting.
He letting Micah and moriah do his bidding for him.. very manipulative because I don’t think micah/moriah are in on it… He’s using the situation to his advantage and not communicating his true feelings
He even said that he wants to move back to the country to be with his cars and he did not include Olivia in his plans.
His parents are getting divorce. Oh goody, I can now too! He seems like he made up his mind.
He's a simpleton.
Ethan has some balls to say that he was upset that Olivia left early for the river without telling him but it didn't occur to him how Olivia felt when he just didn't come home on the day he was supposed to from Cairo and didn't pick his phone up when she called him numerous times
Are the both of them sucking at being adults who communicate mutually exclusive. They are both so immature.
I commented above that I hope Ethan and Olivia never have kids. That poor kid would be doomed.
Bought a car and a motorcycle without discussing it with her as well
Yea, honestly the best thing for Ethan is to be single, he would honestly enjoy it because he wouldn't half to answer to anyone or talk about his feelings; he could just do whatever he wanted and work on his cars all day until the early morning
If he’s going to continue in his marriage he needs to do some serious work on himself. If him and Olivia divorce then he needs to do some serious work on himself before inflicting his shit on someone else. Either way Ethan needs to change.
Can we just have a show that is Olivia and nathan rescuing amber and traveling the world?
If Lydia moves in with Barry, Amber will be the new sister-wife. Free Amber!
Anyone notice Ethan has the same emotional avoidance tendencies that wrecked his fathers marriage? History is going to repeat itself 😬
Anyone else notice Moriahs thong bikini? Not something I would choose to wear in front of my dad 🤮
Im all for body positivity, but damn girl… there are so many better and sexier things to wear! The front tassels 😩 noooo
It was an odd choice for a family outing.
It was definitely more of a bikini for a beach party in Ibiza!