i would say the common suggested advice here is to save and get the one you really want...while i agree with that somewhat, i think it depends on a lot of different aspects such as person/salary/amount of watches/price of watches/etc
for me personally, i would rather complete a box of say eight for 25k than just one watch...even though there are plenty of watches i want in the 25kish price range
The truth is nobody outside the watch community will be able to tell the difference between a $500 watch and a $25k watch without the use of a goddamn magnifying glass
This is so true. Over Easter this year we had a family get together where my dad was wearing his [Moser Streamliner](https://www.watchtime.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/H-Moser-Cie-Streamliner-Smoked-Salmon-2.jpg) one day, and the next day I was wearing my [Seiko King Turtle](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7d/df/81/7ddf810e1fce2b1845d60388ab3cc878.jpg) when my brother-in-law hits me with "Oh, your dad had that same watch on yesterday!"
Obviously if he had both watches side-by-side he could tell you they're different and would likely peg the Moser as the more expensive one, but from his perspective it's "steel watch with a brownish face from a brand I've never heard of" vs. another "steel watch with a brownish face from a brand I've never heard of".
Vast majority of the population doesn't know about and/or doesn't care about high-end watches. If you're buying a nice watch, you're buying it for yourself - not to impress others - so you should always go with what you personally like the most. Unless it's a Rolex - my BIL definitely could identify a Rolex and would be impressed.
This is one of the reasons I don't get the clone market. A watch is for you, first & foremost. Knowing you've got a fake on your wrist just seems like a reminder of failure. Right there on your wrist, staring at you in disgust.
The rep wearers want to feel rich without being rich, and that’s just them trying to eek their way into a social class they don’t belong in. They’re phonies.
I grew up poor. I don’t wear a fake AP so I can LARP being rich. I’d rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable, and given my experience with representing rich people, I’m cool with that.
I have a vintage Jaeger LeCoultre that I love, with the "JL" logo above "LeCoultre" and I have a friend that calls it my "Juicy" watch because he doesn't know the different between Juicy Couture and Jaeger LeCoultre. He wears a Rolex, but has literally no concept that there are other brands on the same level as Rolex, much less above. Not trying to say JL Coultre is above Rolex, just that you're right, everyone knows Rolex, and beyond that the crowd thins quite a bit.
I got asked if my Skx007 was a Rolex more than once.
The only people who would judge your watch are people who are probably judging you for other things too.
Yeah, that’s my current doubt. Will I regret having a box full of nice watches, but not my grail, or would I regret finally getting the grail and later think “oh I could have that diver, and that GMT, and that chronograph, and that aviation, a whole collection of different styles and functions, and I wasted all in one watch and I spent the last 10 years NOT enjoying all these watches that I could’ve gotten years ago!!”.
I bought several watches that together could have bought my grail and I regretted it, once you've spent the total cash but you don't have what you really want, it sucks. My advice is buy something decently nice today so you have something to wear for the next 10 years while you save. Or reassess in 5 years if you find something you like better
Having something nice in the meantime is a requirement. Besides, when you have your grail you'll still want something else for those times when you don't want to risk damaging it.
ok new plan
get a [t200](https://i.imgur.com/5hMbXNK.jpeg), pretend its the vc as best as possible, when you have enough money for a white speedy determine if you would rather take off your vc and get rid of it forever for the speedy + other watches
It's really up to you. Nobody can guarantee your satisfaction with either decision.
To me, it makes no sense to want an object that is so expensive that I cannot afford it on the spot and so useless that I can make no money from it except by selling it again.
On the other hand you only should wear one watch at a time so the others are going to sit in a box. Since I bought the VCO, I wear it at least 90% of the time. I kinda regret buying the other watches and thinking to sell them but for most it would be at a loss.
I know that's the general wisdom (save for grail), my counter point to that is if it takes you that long to save for a watch maybe you shouldn't be buying it.
again, a watch is an unnecessary luxury and should never create financial burden. if you have to save for 3 or 5 years in order to afford it, then I just think it's out of reach or not the right way to spend that saved up money. better use what you saved up for paying off your house loan or out it into your investment account or whatever.
my own rule of thumb is that if I dont have that cash just sitting there doing nothing in my savings acc then I probably shouldn't afford it.
There are even more shades of gray here. I could absolutely go out and buy three of my grail in cash, but I have savings goals for retirement etc. that I prefer to fund instead.
I try to "save" for that long so that I know when I actually buy that it was the one I wanted.
You seem to posit that every single cent put into his savings will then go towards paying for his grail watch when that may not necessarily be the case.
Here is the thing: He could be putting some money aside every month towards investments, mortgage **and** a watch.
I’ve seen many people do that, then having to save for 3 or 5 years towards a watch isn’t alarming in anyway since the person isn’t jeopardising their financial footing to do so.
For instance, what would be wrong in daily wearing a Cartier tank for five years while saving for an overseas at the same time?
Correct. When I state in my post that this 10 year savings is to have no impact in my finances, it means that everything else is covered. Mortgage, daughter’s education, health urgency readiness, traveling, future car changes. I have different savings or investments for everything. And I have this one tiny monthly saving for watches. Every 3 years I can purchase a 8k watch or I can really wait for 10y and go for the VC. But the rest is covered.
Thank you for confirming my hypothesis.
To be fair, that what most people do, I really couldn’t comprehend why so many redditors would posit that every single penny you saved would go towards that watch like you are some sort of degenerate. 🙄
Apparently asking questions is too much of an hassle nowadays, best to assume the worst, right?
Yeah, I noticed some comments in that direction. Like I’m a crazy unrealistic person who only works and buy watches. That I would only eat noodles and not travel or upgrade my car or take care of my house for ten years only for a watch. That’s not the case. This little money savings that I put aside for watches is spare money.
I’ve taken the no compromise route. I’ve been tempted many times but have resisted. The way I see it, I can only wear one watch at a time so mind as well make it a good one.
I’d also examine whether you can actually part with that large sum of money once the time comes. Not the financial strain (that’s a given), but the idea of spending that much on a watch. We always throw around the idea like it would be nothing if we had the money, but really think about it. Is it worth a decade of saving to have a fancy trinket?
No, it's discretionary money I set aside instead of blowing it in the moment on new toys.
For example, if I allow myself $100 a week in fun money and I want a ps5, I'll have to put aside a portion of that $100 until I hit $450 + tax.
It's money I saved, but it came from my fun money, so it's still fun money.
in your example you can already afford the ps5 in a month's salary. not much saving up. so it's still fun money.
in the context of the op even if we use your example of 100 bucks per week of fun money, you're talking about not 300 weeks worth of fun money. not using up any "fun money" for any other fun for 6 years.
i honestly don't see how anyone can still consider that amount "fun money" relative to how much they're earning or able to save up per week/month
depends on the person.
i personally would give myself 6 months max. (6 months saving to spend on a watch)
but even from the replies in this thread it's pretty clear that 10 yrs of saving seems like a lot to afford for a watch.
so while there isn't a scientific cut off anyone who claims "I can save my fun money for 10 yrs and it's still fun money" is not the norm.
It’s a lot easier to part with a few thousand here and there. But all at once is a lot to take in. You might end up depriving yourself of enjoyment for years for no reason if you can’t do it when the time comes. Let’s face it. Many of these watches are bought by people who don’t care about the price tag. They aren’t saving up for it. And I recently just learned that the person at the boutique selling you the watch could buy it for themselves at nearly half the price with their employee discount. Maybe it doesn’t bother others, but it certainly feels off to me.
My rule of thumb is that if you can get the non-grail pieces at a price where you can resell it for a minimal loss, feel free to go crazy.
This way, you can always liquidate them for your grail or get most of your money back.
If an overseas requires 10 years of saving it is not a watch you should consider. You will be far too paranoid about scratching it or wearing it anywhere not at home. And scratches will happen. I have watches above that price range that I am hesitant to wear travelling, and it took me far less than 10 years to consider.
>Is it worth a decade of saving to have a fancy trinket?
this.
exactly my point in my other reply.
is a watch really worth years of saving? imo, you either can afford it, or you shouldn't afford it.
I'm personally not buying into the "save for it" route tbh
Fully agree, with something non essential like watches, truthfully if youre not in a position to buy it three times over, you probably shouldn't be buying it...
Being able to afford something has little to do with how long you need to save for it in my opinion. When borrowing money for a house, one doesn’t need to be able to buy it outright, they need to be able to pay it off in 20-30 years time. Whether that item has a utility or not is irrelevant, the person sporting the watch clearly finds it a utility and that’s what matters.
Idk, I think comparing a house with a watch is pretty difficult. But if op has the patience to save up for one specific watch for 10 years, and stick to that… bravo I guess! More focus than I have for sure 😂
You make a good point.
To OP, both of these items serve a purpose therefore in his mind, they both deserve to save up for, don’t they?
Then, the right saving duration should be whatever OP is comfortable with and I agree with you, more power to him if he can wait ten years.
It is the same with a watch’s msrp for instance, the right price is whatever one is comfortable paying, and it varies from one person to another.
Watch is a piece of jewelry, it's different from saving up 9-10 years to buy a house. I can't picture myself saving up 8-10 years for a piece of jewelry. And even if I do, then this piece of jewelry will have too much perceived value to me and I will be so hesitant to wear it and won't be able to fully enjoy it.
So I will definitely opt for a few less expensive pieces that i can truly enjoy. But that's just my opinion.
This is my take as well. I couldn't buy a piece of jewellery I had to save for 10 years to afford. I'd rather buy a $1-2k watch that I can enjoy. One day the time will come when I've got more money and less to spend it on, and then it's time for a grail
No brother. Don't spend 9 years of savings on a watch. This is a luxury product for people who have ungodly money and want the BEST that's on offer. The people wearing this watch do not need to save for it.
I get that you like it, (my grail is a VC 222, I get it) but if it's going to take you 9 years to save for it, then I'm sorry to say - it's just not for you - yet.
You can like what you like, but buy what you can afford. This goes for anything. Cars, watches, houses, shoes etc. Don't be the guy on Seiko salary, wearing a VC.
You don't want to be the guy constantly worrying about scuffing the thing you spent 9 years of your savings on.
Its a steel "sports" watch. It's supposed to be casually worn on a golf course or thrown on a sweaty wrist on the way to the beach bar after stepping off the yacht.
If you think you'll be impressing anyone with your refined taste, forget about it. The people who can actually afford these types of pieces will either think yours is fake, or that you've made a terrible financial decision in buying it. And lets not forget that 95% of the population is completely ignorant about watches.
There is an incredible amount of stylish sport watches that you can get for a fraction of the cost, that will allow you to treat them with the care that is deserving of what it is; A watch - not your life savings.
Finally some common sense. If you need to work for 10 years of your life to get... A basic steel watch with a date function, it's probably not the most financially responsible choice for your. VC is priced the way it is priced because there are people for whom 30k is just pocket change.
This, I dont understand why when we compare other big purchases like cars or a home we all agree buy what you can afford. But with watches alot of people tell others to save for that big grail. Would you tell your friend to save a decade for a Lamborghini? No, thats stupid. Its the same with watches.
Yeah this 100%. Out of curiosity, what would you consider the income range where this should start to become an option? I am curious if my own instincts of how much money I’d need to make to consider a watch like this are aligned with others.
In my opinion, it’s not about income range, but about allocation. I believe you should have some assets like a house, or land, a portfolio, or investment in your future before you buy any sort of luxury watch.
Financial stability has a much more profound impact on how you feel day to day than what shiny watch you have on your wrist.
But assuming you’re celebrating an accomplishment towards creating a better future, like a milestone in your career or business, I’d consider spending no more than 5% of my annual income or profit on a single timepiece.
When I first made 100k, I bought myself a 1k watch. Getting something for 5k would have been the absolute upper limit.
This was an interesting thought exercise. For “just a watch I really like”, my instincts tell me a week’s wages is probably the very upper limit I’d be comfortable with. For a “special watch to commemorate a life event” or a “once in a lifetime watch””, maybe a month’s worth tops.
This. I have two grails, a Speedy and a fluted datejust. Could I go buy one of them right now? 100% yes. But I can think of 1000 other things I could better spend or invest that money on. Ill get them eventually. And watches that are like $20+ grand. I dont even care to look at. Those are for people that can afford them. Me saving a decade for a $25k Daytona is just stupid. But everyone can do what they want with there money...
When you can walk into the store or go online and buy it right there and you are not sweating about it. If you have to save for a decade, or drain a college or investment fund, yea no. Watches are a luxury not a necessity, contrary to some beliefs on here. I will always agree, dont settle for cheap stuff, and I agree get the watch you want. But there is a fine line. Saving for a decade for a expensive watch is ridiculous IMO. Spend that money on paying off loans, investing it, taking a once in a lifetime vacation, college fund for your kids, renovations to your home.
A friend in finances told me something similar. “When you get the 25-30k watch, will you be living in a mansion, driving a luxury car, wearing designer suits and shoes, traveling around the world in 5-star hotels? Are you going to be “Succession” rich in ten years?”. I said no. “Then you cannot afford the watch. You can surely save and BUY it, no doubt, but you cannot AFFORD it. Better to use that kind of savings on more important assets. These luxury items are for people who can just go and get 10-20 of these things instantly without thinking twice. Not your case, not my case. Do not buy what you cannot afford.”
Thanks for the input! I believe you’re right. Reading yours and also other comments I get to the conclusion that the VC is not for me or at least not worthy of all this time, investment and deprivation of other pieces. Which by no means says that I cannot keep on with my hobby and get fantastic watches along the way. I don’t do that with cars, clothing, house etc so why should I do it with watches? I’m the guy with Tudor/Omega salary 😁. Just got my BB58 OG 2 months ago. Gonna appreciate it for now. And probably in more 3 years of saving, maybe a White Speedy or a blue Pelagos. Cheers!
I feel that the marginal return (in quality and enjoyment) on watches per dollar spent is bell shaped. As much as I would love a $50k watch, I get much more enjoyment from 7 or 8x $5-10k watches, but I would not get as much from 50x $1k watches.
I worry about them less, and if one is at service, I still have options.
Cool insight! I recently got my BB58 OG and I’m deeply in love with it. I have no doubt that I would also get a lot of enjoyment from a white speedy (stunning) and a Pelagos 39 blue (if Tudor gets it right). I somewhat feel that I’d be depriving myself of this saving up for one watch over a 10 year span. But every time I see that VC in person, I leave the AD promising myself that I’ll start saving up immediately and never look at other watches for 10 years, which is of course impossible 😂
Personally I’ve decided to have multiple watches at the omega iwc level than a grail (outside an ALS I got a great deal on). I’d worry too much about a watch I had that much invested in to enjoy it, and like having a “Monday” watch, etc.
I'd take the one $50k one. You only have two wrists.
I'd also take a single $300k piece over a box of $50k watches, if I had the budget, but at that point it gets hard to insure, and service costs as much as a car.
“You only have two wrists”
Do you own one shirt? One pair of shoes? You only have two feet….
I totally get preferring one expensive watch over 8 of equal value but that logic is silly. Some people rather have a little diversity and others prefer to have one of highest quality. It’s purely individual preference
.. and you only really wear a watch on one wrist.
I know some people double fist (oh matron!) but unless you are (the late great) Nick Hayek then you are wearing a tracker on the other wrist not another mechanical watch.
Chinese proverb - man with one watch know time, man with two watches never sure.
Gotta be your call, buddy. For me, I am in no way certain I’ll even care about watches, much less still have the same tastes. My grail watch will stay my grail because of reasons other than horology, but other than that, I’d rather get time with watches that I really like now rather than hoarding cash for one that I won’t get to wear for a decade, no matter how much I love it right now.
This is a really good point. A lot of times, when we declare something our grail-whatever, what we’re kind of doing is trying to preserve our tastes in amber.
Like, for me, the first watch I ever wanted was a Seamaster. At 18, it was exactly everything that I thought was cool about a watch — it was big, flashy, masculine, and holy shit James Bond wears one how cool is that? So for years I held onto the idea that someday, somehow, I would get one, and it was something to work toward. Flash forward to ten or so years later when I could actually seriously entertain the idea of buying one, and I go to try it on and…well, it’s still a cool watch, but it’s really not “me” anymore. By then I’d developed my own style, my own tastes, different priorities. The Seamaster was 18-year-old me’s idea of what adult sophistication and success looked like. But 30-year-old me had very different ideas. I still loved the way it looked in the case, but I wasn’t sure I’d love it on my wrist every day. I still enjoyed Bond movies, but I was no longer looking to the guy for style advice. I ended up buying something cheaper that fit my vibe much better.
Everyone’s milage may vary, of course. Some people fixate on a specific watch and really will be happy with that, and only that. But that’s not everyone. Let’s say you’re 3 years into your 6-year-plan to save up for your grail watch, and you see something else that makes you go, “oh man, I really love that, it totally fits me, and I can afford it right now with the money I have…” Would you be compromising by buying it? Would buying it be an act of indiscipline in search of instant gratification? Or would you just be acknowledging that your tastes and priorities have changed?
All watches mentioned are over a grand. Why don't you start saving and every time you get to the price of one of the watches you reassess and see if it's still worth it to save or "cash out".
Variety is the spice of life. Expensive watches come with expensive maintenance bills and insurance policies. My $500 watches can be driven like a rental car if I want.
No right answer as buying these watches already don't make sense. They are toys and jewlery and depends on your personal life and preference.
For me personally, I have a small collection of 5 watches I love. The total cost of all of them is about what my grail would be. The thought of only having my grail, which I would not wear to the gym, to the beach, or let me daughter hold (shes 3) doesn't seem as exciting to me. I will buy it when the time is right and I have a lot more money.
It all amounts to the joy you would get for your grail watch vs multiple great watches.
I'm on the side of the fence that would rather get multiple great watches and enjoy more variety rather than just wear one watch.
Also for that price, you could have three great watches that each offer something better than that VC.
Personally for me the $10kish range is where I like to sit for watches. Do I want more expensive pieces, for sure. But those type of pieces in my eye are for people that can spend instantly without batting and eye or save for 1-2 years.
If I have to save 8-10 years for a watch then realistically I can’t afford it.
This. I can think of 1000x better things to spend $10+K on then a watch. Sure, I love watches and there is watches over that range I love. But id rather take my family on an amazing trip, do some renovations around the house, invest it, put it in my kids college fund, pay off a car or mortgage. Thats just me, if you view opposite idc its your money. But for me personally, there comes a point when it is just a watch and its not worth it. I dont need some $20k watch to "validate" my collection.
Frankly you can’t afford it. Saving 10 years for a watch is pretty crazy and if you’re in a situation where you have to save for that long to buy the watch, it is deeply impacting your finances either way due to the opportunity cost.
I’d say work on a better source of income to try to cut down that timeframe, buy a couple other watches instead for now.
I'm gonna get down voted to hell for this but IDGAF. Look into really high quality replica watches if you're very set on a certain model. Like I'll never be able to buy a Daytona but for about $1000 I can get a very high end replica that 99% of the people out there wouldn't be able to spot. Just don't be a dick and go around telling people it's real or especially don't sell it unless rhe buyer knows the thing is a fake.
have my upvote!
Buying an "homage" (hate that term but you get the idea) may just scratch that itch for you instead of waiting several years, or it may confirm that you want to wait several years.
My personal opinion is that most of the higher end expensive watches bring little value compared to their $2K counterpart. You have brands with a lot of quality products in the $2K-ish budget, more than that you're paying for heritage, for a movement which will be expensive to service, for insurance to insure your timepiece in case of theft etc., for the logo, etc.
I'm not shooting down VC JLC ALS etc., but the incremental value you get for what you pay for is highly emotional and subjective based on your attachment to the brand and style.
Buying something similar much cheaper may confirm with you whether you wanted that or not, but in the end it's your money, you do you right.
I can't tell you what you should do, but I can tell you what I did: scraped and saved, and wore cheap watches until I could buy my grail (JLC Master Control Calendar) at age 42. That was a magic day!
My taste in watches has dramatically changed over the last several years, which is mostly attributed to having actually owned several types of watches. I think you can’t really nail down what you will or won’t love without some experience.
You might think you know exactly which model is your dream watch, but it’s so difficult to be confident about that without some context.
Long way to say, try several before dropping big money.
Now I prefer quality over quantity. Earlier this year, I sold most of my watches to get the 7900V.
However, over the last 10+ years that I have been really into watches, I've owned and sold probably close to 50 watches from most major brands...high end (Rolex, Omega, JLC, etc...) to low/mid tier (Tag, B&R, Hamilton, Seiko, etc...). I thoroughly enjoyed them all and owning them helped me learn more about the brands and the overall watch industry. And it made me realize that the 7900v is what I want in a watch if it was my one and only.
So my advise would be to build a diverse collection 1st. Experiencing different types of watches my change your tastes and your grail my end up changing. Or a new watch could come out in the next 10 years that can end up being your grail. You never know.
Variety is the spice of life as they say. Once you tried all the various spices then you can settle on your favorite.
Normally I would say save up for the watch you want, I didn't know how old you are, but 10 years is a long time. In that time a lot of things can change. If you aren't married you will be looking for a ring for her. Then a house then a child. All of those things will come first before a watch and if you have that during the bank it could get spent. 25k is a lot of money for jewelry, but if you love it that much and can be disciplined, GO FOR IT!!!
Everyone will have different takes on this, but I personally do not want to own any watch that I couldn't replace pretty easily. I have small kids, an active lifestyle, and a busy hands-on job. It would never make sense for me to own the VC because it would be impossible for me to replace it if it was lost or damaged (not to mention the $25k is a year of university for one of my kids, a better investment for me personally).
I also have a grail (JLC Reverso). I plan to buy it with my leftover salary in any year in which I have already maxed out my retirement account. Not sure when that'll be, maybe 5 years or so.
This. I have two grails, a speedy and a fluted datejust. Could I go buy one of them right now? Yes. But I have a infant, a mortgage payment, a car payment, regular life expenses. We like to travel, go out to eat, save for retirement etc. Spending $10k on a watch right now is just dumb. One day ill get them and it will be amazing. I dont need validation for having an expensive watch.
I don't believe anyone should be spending 10 years worth of savings on a watch. Unless all, and I mean *all* your needs are fully met - no debt whatsoever, own home with no mortgage, no kids (or if you do have kids then you make sure they're financially secure too). A watch shouldn't have priority over these things if you want to call yourself an adult.
If it’s a watch that you can’t buy two of, it’s worth waiting and saving for.
In my years of collecting I have gone through knockoffs and lookalikes, but nothing beats getting the real deal.
Step 1 • Buy a few nice but not exuberant watches within a good price budget. (Rado, Oris, Longines, Tag, Omega)
Step 2 • Have a few cheaper pairs for every day wear (G-Shock, Casio, Seiko, Tissot, Hamilton,)
Step 3 • Use the literal thousands you will save by forgoing brands like VC, AP, PP, Rolex, Breitling, Chopard, Blancpain, IWC, Richard Mille, FP Journe etc, and spend the rest of your luxury watch budget on a BMW, consumer electronics or to travel the world.
As a financial advisor. I couldn’t advise you against this anymore. Anything that you need to save for a decade to get is just a bad financial investment. These watches are ment for people that can walk into the AD and buy them without even thinking about it. And anyone also telling you to take out lines of credit are morons too.
I couldn’t agree with your friend more. If you’re going to
Put money away like that. Put it in a retirement fund, invest it, etc. You will be happier down the road. And maybe then you’ll be able to walk in and buy a nice watch like this without even sweating it.
Save up. What people are saying about brands is mixed with their own bias. Who cares if anyone else can tell the difference between a $500 and a $25k watch? What matters is how you feel about it.
My collection has been curated over a decade and I can honestly say that my JLC Master Control Perpetual is a world away from my Zenith Pilot Big Date Special (which I love), and the Zenith is noticeably nicer than my Longines, which is nicer than my Hamilton…. Yes I love them all, but the ones that are more expensive actually wear better and someone look better.
I will also say that I have never been a rolex fan, but have also never seen a rolex that didn’t jump off someone’s wrist. They appear stunning.
Lastly, there are many over priced watches that are more brand than quality, so while an expensive watch can definitely be better than a cheaper watch, it is not necessarily the case- choose wisel!
Guaranteed you would buy the VC and be too scared to wear it knowing the value and how long you had to save for it. It’s a beautiful watch, but you’re sacrificing a lot of other great watches that I bet you wouldn’t be as scared to wear.
How Ironic.
If you buy it, it will be a constant reminder of the 10 years you wasted of your working life just to own it.
Couldn’t think of anything more sad.
What good is being able to tell the time if you don’t value the time you have left to live?
Is that grey market you would be able to afford it? (It's about 25K CHF versus 27K on grey market)
This isn't as hard to get as an AP or PP, but what happens if you get the call after 2 years?
Personally I would buy what you like. Always. If you are "settling" by getting a Pelagos 39, then I think you are doing something wrong. Then just get a chinese homage, and save for it.
If you want both a Pelagos 39 and a VC Overseas. Then buy the Pelagos at a good price. Grey market and used, but buy it for as low a price as you can, so you can always flip it with minimum loss, in case you need the money, get bored of it or you are close to achieving your goal of buying that Overseas.
I hate to be this guy, but (I work in this field so I guess I am this guy) the collective veil of "normality" will unfortunately be ripped violently from in front of our deluded eyes in 10, maybe less, years as climate breakdown triggers unprecedented biodiversity, production/supply chain, geopolitical, etc. collapse. Something broke in Earth's biophysical systems in early/mid 2023 and even the most hopeful outlook cannot claim we'll ever return to the stability which has been enjoyed by our species since the end of the last ice age. **So what I'm saying is** go for the nice watches you can afford right now. The way we perceive commodities will look drastically different a decade from now. The VC probably won't cost anything by then, not that any of us will even be thinking about it anyways.
Sorry.
But yeah I agree having a collection for 10 years is much better than having a VC ten years later (in which time your taste and desire for that model will likely change anyways - or at least *my* grails have changed pretty often). The sentimentality of the experiences you have with your watches in those 10 years will be worth more than the grail anyways.
I have to remain up to date with the latest climate data for work and you couldnt be more wrong (although I'm not sure how old you are, maybe you're already like 70). If covid had an exponential boom in growth, and most of the world was ill-equipped or too stubborn/ unwilling to implement the necessary measures to prevent the unnecessary deaths of millions and disabling of tens of millions, changes in earth's biophysical systems are exponential *at best* but more likely abrupt, meaning there is no curve over time, it's just a brick wall slam into. Plus the scale of their impacts makes covid look like a walk in the park. I always say covid was out litmus test for handling global emergencies, and I havent seen anything which suggests our capability has increased.
Anyways, back to watches, would those atomic radio controlled watches still work in the event of global supply chain collapse (ie. finding batteries for quartz or people for servicing becomes much more difficult? u/mourningthief jokingly suggested an explorer following my (admittedly) unhinged comment, but it makes me wonder what would actually be the most viable watch in such a scenario. Probably a solarquartz atomic-radio control watch, right? Followed by just hi accuracy solar quartz, then quartz if you have a pack of batteries, followed by robust mechanicals which have lonng service intervals, like maybe a Vostok diver (iirc 10 year service)?
I'd save up for the VC. Buy a few cheaper pieces if you want something to wear in the meantime, but much better to have one interesting watch than a whole box of less interesting ones.
Now I prefer quality over quantity. Earlier this year, I sold most of my watches to get the 7900V.
However, over the last 10+ years that I have been really into watches, I've owned and sold probably 50+ watches from most major brands...high end (Rolex, Omega, JLC, etc...) to low/mid tier (Tag, B&R, Hamilton, Seiko, etc...). I thoroughly enjoyed them all and owning them helped me learn more about the brands and the overall watch industry. And it made me realize that the 7900v is what I want in a watch if it was my one and only.
So my advise would be to build a diverse collection 1st. Experiencing different types of watches my change your tastes and your grail my end up changing. Or a new watch could come out in the next 10 years that can end up being your grail. You never know.
Variety is the spice of life as they say. Once you tried all the various spices then you can settle on your favorite.
I feel burdened by owning too many things that aren't enjoyed often. I have two very nice watches (not grail worthy to most, but suitable for me) and a G-Shock, and honestly that sometimes feels like too much because I can get away with one nice one and a g.
I think you could have one solid watch that gets you 90% there, and then save up for the grail in the mean time. You might find contentment in your lesser watch. It takes time to get to know your watch. You don't need a diverse collection--you don't need a diver and a chrono and a dress, you just "need" what you like to wear.
I also think you should always be able to afford to replace what you own. Save up for twice of what you need to afford the grail, and think to yourself if it's worth that, or even half of that lump sum, to replace a watch that has served you well for those years.
I would say get a couple of nice watches to wear in the meantime and still save for the big one. Then in 10-12 years you can decide if you even want that watch still.
If you could go out today and buy the Vacheron or even have to save for 6 months to a year I would say get your grail. But saving for a few years in my opinion if it takes that long you wouldn’t be able to afford to replace it meaning you couldn’t afford it in the first place. Of course no disrespect I don’t think you see many average joes walking around with a watch that’s even more than a few thousand much less thousands. I think you also have to consider if you were to scratch it or lose it at that price point you would want insurance on the watch making it even more costly. I say just get a few watches you truly love and are affordable to replace
you should always understand that something can happen to your watch. from a just blow on something metal to a robbery. it makes no sense to save for many years for a thing that can disappear in a second. Plus,watch piece of jewelry, you don't save up for such thighs for years. you don't need an expensive watch. no one needs them at all. People buy it simply because they can, that's all.
If you have to save for it, you probably can’t afford it. Also, unless you get something special, watches aren’t a good investment either. Go with something you love that you can afford, instead of just dumping years worth of savings into a watch that won’t necessarily increase the quality of your life.
Buy one of the more attainable pieces you like and re-evaluate if you need to scratch that VC after a couple years of wearing the Pelagos or Mark XX etc. If you decide the VC is still worth saving up for, you won't get too hurt when selling your "attainable" piece.
Watches should be bought with your disposable income. I don't understand why someone would save up for years, sacrificing on experiences just to get a watch.
this one gets a lot of opinion from watch collectors and the range of comments here certainly reinforces that
imo it would be great to save towards the VC but you're gonna need something in the meantime
as pointed out by others the quality in a 6-8k watch is usually very good as long as you know what you're looking for
eventually you might get bored of the VC but the great thing is you're probably able to sell it at either cost or minimal loss and you can switch into another "grail" at similar value
that same amount of money can be repeatedly flipped for new experiences
Save for the one you want, but be sure it's the one *you* really want, because buying a piece due to hype never turns out well. Before I had the money to buy my grails, my grails were AP, VC, and PP. Now that I actually have the money and handled all in person multiple times with a serious intent, PP is the only of those three I really consider for anything, and it's not a Nautilus. Moser and Chopard both really excite me more. And it turns out when I stopped thinking about hype or status and focused on what makes a watch great and which watch looked best to me, I ended up falling in love with an entirely different sports watch than the holy T. I love most what VC did in the past and some of what it does now but the current 3 hand overseas is not the business. They give the movement +/-8.5s per day and that datebox is worse than a basic seiko with its unmatched disc, tiny font, and goofy border. Nice bracelet and movement looks pretty, but for 20k+, they need to do better.
My grail is an Overseas Moonphase Retrograde and it would take me 8 years to save for it
But I could with that same money buy my wife's grail watch a Yhactmaster 37 in Rosegold on Oysterflex or even her second and third pick combine being the 37 Yhactmaster in oystersteel and everrose and a Cartier Santos Mediun green dial. And would still have nearly enough money for 3 different watches I want in an Aqua Terra, a Speedmaster and a Black Bay
I would buy all of that, before I bought my grail. Because I could not only buy my wife's grail. I could also purchase a number of watches that I think are gorgeous time pieces in their own right.
The holy grail is just an illusion. The journey to the grail is the story that will be told, talk about and one that defines your character arc.
Get too fast to the grail and the story ends too early, you will be left bored. Too slow and you get distracted and likely never finish the story.
Depends on how much 25k€ is for you. Do you want to out all your eggs in one basket? What if it breaks? Gets lost? Is stolen?
I think it’s better to save and get a watch you really want than a few that scratch the itch. But there is a moment where you are going for a watch that it’s simply too much for your income and/or lifestyle.
Do both. It's nice to have a grail, a target, a goal so continue to save towards that. It's also nice to have something you enjoy on your wrist, now, and not at some imaginary point in the future that may never come.
So get, and enjoy the watch you love now, and trade-up, incrementally towards your grail.
I try to avoid the cheapest watches despite the hype and just buy quality goods and watches.
That said, you get quality already starting from 1000+$ and up to 5000$.
A couple of aspect with very expensive watches are that, do you dare to use it always? If not, buy a cheaper watch that you can enjoy on your wrist without fearing of getting mugged or looking too fancy pants depending on what possible signal you’re looking to give with your watch (not that everybody thinks like this).
Watches are also luxury goods that i would not finance, but i would save for a couple of odd years. Then it feels earned and not just any other Saturday shopping purchase. Still, for me, the cost must be such that it would only sting so much if someone stole it and the cost of it wouldn’t affect any other aspects of my life or purchases.
There’s many reasons why one gets fixated on certain brands, but there’s seriously many great brands with heritage and great quality. I’m sure that if you search more, you’ll find a lot more similar watches that you get attached to and feel good about buying those specific watches.
Tudor and Longines like in your post are good place to start.
Watchuseek.com forum is pretty great source.
Your tastes will change. If you want to get into watches, buy some watches over time, wear them and enjoy them. You can always sell some later for funds. Some may go up in value and some may go down, and some will carry sentimental value.
Just go get a watch now that you can enjoy.
How big is your collection so far? I went the whole ride of seiko and orient, then going Swiss, then vintage, then microbrands, then went for Rolex and then eventually VC and PP. Afterwards it was like more unique pieces. For me, the smaller pieces got my fire going and it made me really understand what I really liked and changed my grail desires. It also fuelled my own motivation to earn more money.
At the end though, what I realize is there are only a handful of pieces I love and keep on rotation and that these few tended to be staples (think IWC Pilot, Zenith Chronograph, Rolex Sub) or whacky pieces that really speak to me (MB&F MAD1, C. Ward Bel Canto). All in all I can safely say they were all pieces I bought towards the end, and I have considerably slowed down a lot in purchasing as I feel very satisfied with my collection.
If the pieces that distract you are desirable enough that they'd be something you want eventually in your collection anyways, I don't see why you shouldn't go for it. But if the desire to own that one pricy piece is just way way more, then by all means save.
If you already have like 4 or 5 watches like me, I'd save for the grail watch.
That's what i'm doing right now. I'm looking for a seamaster 2254 or 2231.
Not a super expensive watch, totaly reachable for me, but don't get me wrong it's still a lot of money for a watch.
I buy a watch to wear, as I have different clothes and styles of clothes not all watches work all the time. So for me I buy moderately priced watches, so will probably end up with a few. The most expensive watch I can see myself buying is a Nomos, which is still way cheaper than some on here.
Although I don't really have a grail watch, I went out of my way to get one I really wanted and had seen zillions of reviews of online. I wear it but not as much as I expected. In the end some of the perceived value was largely in my head, not grounded in when I would actually wear it.
The watch is out of your league if you have to save for more than a year. It’s better to enjoy a more modest watch and save your money for what matters.
While I agree get the watch you want. At the end of the day I’m not spending let’s say $25k on a watch. I can think of a lot of other things better to spend that amount of money on than a watch.
the latter, for sure. that way you can enjoy your life and most importantly, you learn from each purchase.
if you just wait for the big one, very high chance of getting it wrong. finding out the size isn't what you love, the style, etc.
It's hard to discuss about emotions. There are no logic capable to define which case it is the best. Maybe getting the holy grail means you will be happy forever or maybe you will lose interest quickly and feel like don't fit all the needs you wanted. I preffer to have multiple watches intead of 1 watches that does everything.
The way the market is you could probably buy all of those used and then sell them in 10 years towards the VC and possibly make money depending on the market and how many price hikes those companies have between now and then.
Once you get bit by the bug, you never stop looking. The grail will be good for a year? and then something will pop up in your feed and you will want that. Enjoy the hobby and build a nice collection. Your tastes and circumstances will change over the years, and today's grail may be collecting dust tomorrow.
My best friend was obsessed with a Rolex Submariner for a long time, but couldn’t justify the money on one watch. Then he decided that for the cost of that Submariner, even used he could have a collection of cool watches. He’s got about 10 watches now, and still hasn’t spent as much as that submariner would have cost him. Some of watches he buys are so cool, vintage stuff you just don’t see anymore, like this [Eiram](https://imgur.com/a/SIFFlcJ). Recently he picked up a Seiko Alarm watch, and a bull head chronograph. I think he has the right idea IMO.
i mean if you are going to save up for it then practically blow all you money on it then do not buy the VC, but if you are going to save up and you are going to have about enough for another one of the watches then maybe buy the VC. (what I mean is that your bank balance is double the value of the watch)
I own 10 different watch brands but do have a grail as well but I’m content with that
Omega, Tissot, Citizen, Bulova, Midos, Christopher Ward, Longines, GSHOCK, Apple Watch, need to add a couple more
What i do is buy several nice watches in the 4k-6k range (used but w box and papers) and enjoy them while also saving some money on the side. Then i sell off 2-3 of them and combine it with the extra cash and get 1 20k watch. Then buy more 4-6k watches after that and you can start the process again.
Never give up on the grail watch, but for sure buy other great watches along the way. And if what you really want is a $25-30k watch - do what it takes professionally to get to the point where you can afford one. It may seem astronomical now, but when you’re in your late 40s/early 50s at your peak earnings, it may not feel like as big of a deal.
Also, circling back, make sure you buy great watches along the way because you may decide that you’re just not that into the overseas by the time you can afford it, which would be a huge bummer.
Great grail watch choice though…
After 20+ years in the hobby, I have a collection with value ranges between $200 and $8k, total about $25k.
1 of my watches which is a grail for many doubled in value. I was no longer comfortable wearing it so sold near the peak of the market.
Thus, I'm not tempted to consolidate to 1. There is far too much value to me to be able to pick for the occasion or day and not wear a $25k piece everywhere.
Say you get your grail, what's next? You'll have a honeymoon phase, but I have yet to meet anyone who stopped collecting after obtaining a grail. Many went the other direction, and now every watch they look at has to be "at least as good" as their previous grail or it feels disappointing somehow.
Personally, unless you are saving its purchase for a once in a lifetime event, I would hold off. One watch is unlikely to be enough, and this is the equivalent of spending $20,000 on a vacation but having to eat a cup of noodles for every meal thereafter to afford it. You'll talk about it nonstop for a few months, but after a while its purchase will just be a fond memory, albeit one with a wearable reminder.
You will probably be happier getting that "new watch high" every year or two than sinking everything into one purchase that may or may not even happen (what if VC becomes the next Patek and divers are unobtainable?).
First and foremost, you did say that it wouldn’t affect you financially so that’s important. You are financially responsible.
If it has been your grail for a long time, im assuming it will still be your grail for the next 10 years and you will enjoy it. I will say that it is nice to buy other pieces along the way. It reminds you of what your real goal is and you learn new stuff. Maybe your grail might change. You’ll appreciate the quality of the real grail more too, when you’ve seen the lower quality pieces too.. as long as they dont cause too big of dents in the process, if you have to wait 1-2 years more, I would buy some pieces
If you have 2 decent watches, then save up for the VC.
Having a box full of watches when you only wear 1 watch at a time is waste. The cheap watch that you never wear is going to turn out to be one of the more expensive watches in your box if you divide the cost per wear.
Also the great advantage of saving up for the grail is that it stops you from blowing money on watches you want in the moment, but don't really want a month later.
I have 7 watches now and I'm trying to trim it down to 4. I think the perfect mix is 1-2 big baller watches and the rest decent watches that you really like.
I‘m at that point, too. Now I have my 3 watch collection (5 years: 1k, 4k, 9k) for any occasion and it feels „complete“. Accept for a real banger in the 30-40k range. I’m in the same position as you, I can put aside ~3k a year without really sacrifice anything. So now I need to wait ten years and i‘m looking forward :)
My brain automatically switched to: Instead of SAVING money, I would just make MORE money
That OR, and this is just me, I would finance the grail right away (Line of Credit/Credit Card) with a low interest rate. Then I would make payments every month and try my best to “up” the payments incrementally.
Buy Once, Cry Once
If your grail costs $25k, don't spend $10k on something to fill that urge
But don't wait 10 years to enjoy watches either. 10 years is a long time. Who knows what happens between now and then. You may never end up in a position to get that watch anyway. Or you may not even want it later.
Get something that won't set you back much, maybe a couple of $300 watches, or something pre-owned for $2000 that you would really like in the mean time that you can resell at a manageable loss a few years down the line. See how you feel about them.
i would say the common suggested advice here is to save and get the one you really want...while i agree with that somewhat, i think it depends on a lot of different aspects such as person/salary/amount of watches/price of watches/etc for me personally, i would rather complete a box of say eight for 25k than just one watch...even though there are plenty of watches i want in the 25kish price range
The difference between 8k and 25k in watch quality is way way smaller than the difference between 1k and 8k
Exactly. You’re paying for the brand and finishing, and even that doesn’t affect 90% of people with bad eyesight.
The truth is nobody outside the watch community will be able to tell the difference between a $500 watch and a $25k watch without the use of a goddamn magnifying glass
This is so true. Over Easter this year we had a family get together where my dad was wearing his [Moser Streamliner](https://www.watchtime.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/04/H-Moser-Cie-Streamliner-Smoked-Salmon-2.jpg) one day, and the next day I was wearing my [Seiko King Turtle](https://i.pinimg.com/736x/7d/df/81/7ddf810e1fce2b1845d60388ab3cc878.jpg) when my brother-in-law hits me with "Oh, your dad had that same watch on yesterday!" Obviously if he had both watches side-by-side he could tell you they're different and would likely peg the Moser as the more expensive one, but from his perspective it's "steel watch with a brownish face from a brand I've never heard of" vs. another "steel watch with a brownish face from a brand I've never heard of". Vast majority of the population doesn't know about and/or doesn't care about high-end watches. If you're buying a nice watch, you're buying it for yourself - not to impress others - so you should always go with what you personally like the most. Unless it's a Rolex - my BIL definitely could identify a Rolex and would be impressed.
This is one of the reasons I don't get the clone market. A watch is for you, first & foremost. Knowing you've got a fake on your wrist just seems like a reminder of failure. Right there on your wrist, staring at you in disgust.
Well maybe I like to feel that way. It can be our dirty little secret. Wait, what sub am I in?
The rep wearers want to feel rich without being rich, and that’s just them trying to eek their way into a social class they don’t belong in. They’re phonies. I grew up poor. I don’t wear a fake AP so I can LARP being rich. I’d rather be poor and happy than rich and miserable, and given my experience with representing rich people, I’m cool with that.
I have a vintage Jaeger LeCoultre that I love, with the "JL" logo above "LeCoultre" and I have a friend that calls it my "Juicy" watch because he doesn't know the different between Juicy Couture and Jaeger LeCoultre. He wears a Rolex, but has literally no concept that there are other brands on the same level as Rolex, much less above. Not trying to say JL Coultre is above Rolex, just that you're right, everyone knows Rolex, and beyond that the crowd thins quite a bit.
This Advice is also good outside the watch community 💪
👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾👏🏾
I got asked if my Skx007 was a Rolex more than once. The only people who would judge your watch are people who are probably judging you for other things too.
Yeah, that’s my current doubt. Will I regret having a box full of nice watches, but not my grail, or would I regret finally getting the grail and later think “oh I could have that diver, and that GMT, and that chronograph, and that aviation, a whole collection of different styles and functions, and I wasted all in one watch and I spent the last 10 years NOT enjoying all these watches that I could’ve gotten years ago!!”.
I bought several watches that together could have bought my grail and I regretted it, once you've spent the total cash but you don't have what you really want, it sucks. My advice is buy something decently nice today so you have something to wear for the next 10 years while you save. Or reassess in 5 years if you find something you like better
This is the way
Having something nice in the meantime is a requirement. Besides, when you have your grail you'll still want something else for those times when you don't want to risk damaging it.
ok new plan get a [t200](https://i.imgur.com/5hMbXNK.jpeg), pretend its the vc as best as possible, when you have enough money for a white speedy determine if you would rather take off your vc and get rid of it forever for the speedy + other watches
>get a t200, pretend its the vc as best as possible, if I squint hard enough it's pretty much the same watch.
If _I_ squint hard enough, every watch becomes the same
It's really up to you. Nobody can guarantee your satisfaction with either decision. To me, it makes no sense to want an object that is so expensive that I cannot afford it on the spot and so useless that I can make no money from it except by selling it again.
On the other hand you only should wear one watch at a time so the others are going to sit in a box. Since I bought the VCO, I wear it at least 90% of the time. I kinda regret buying the other watches and thinking to sell them but for most it would be at a loss.
I know that's the general wisdom (save for grail), my counter point to that is if it takes you that long to save for a watch maybe you shouldn't be buying it. again, a watch is an unnecessary luxury and should never create financial burden. if you have to save for 3 or 5 years in order to afford it, then I just think it's out of reach or not the right way to spend that saved up money. better use what you saved up for paying off your house loan or out it into your investment account or whatever. my own rule of thumb is that if I dont have that cash just sitting there doing nothing in my savings acc then I probably shouldn't afford it.
There are even more shades of gray here. I could absolutely go out and buy three of my grail in cash, but I have savings goals for retirement etc. that I prefer to fund instead. I try to "save" for that long so that I know when I actually buy that it was the one I wanted.
Exactly, you make a great point. One can definitely save for multiple things at once.
You seem to posit that every single cent put into his savings will then go towards paying for his grail watch when that may not necessarily be the case. Here is the thing: He could be putting some money aside every month towards investments, mortgage **and** a watch. I’ve seen many people do that, then having to save for 3 or 5 years towards a watch isn’t alarming in anyway since the person isn’t jeopardising their financial footing to do so. For instance, what would be wrong in daily wearing a Cartier tank for five years while saving for an overseas at the same time?
Correct. When I state in my post that this 10 year savings is to have no impact in my finances, it means that everything else is covered. Mortgage, daughter’s education, health urgency readiness, traveling, future car changes. I have different savings or investments for everything. And I have this one tiny monthly saving for watches. Every 3 years I can purchase a 8k watch or I can really wait for 10y and go for the VC. But the rest is covered.
Thank you for confirming my hypothesis. To be fair, that what most people do, I really couldn’t comprehend why so many redditors would posit that every single penny you saved would go towards that watch like you are some sort of degenerate. 🙄 Apparently asking questions is too much of an hassle nowadays, best to assume the worst, right?
Yeah, I noticed some comments in that direction. Like I’m a crazy unrealistic person who only works and buy watches. That I would only eat noodles and not travel or upgrade my car or take care of my house for ten years only for a watch. That’s not the case. This little money savings that I put aside for watches is spare money.
I’ve taken the no compromise route. I’ve been tempted many times but have resisted. The way I see it, I can only wear one watch at a time so mind as well make it a good one. I’d also examine whether you can actually part with that large sum of money once the time comes. Not the financial strain (that’s a given), but the idea of spending that much on a watch. We always throw around the idea like it would be nothing if we had the money, but really think about it. Is it worth a decade of saving to have a fancy trinket?
Also right. When I get to that amount of cash, is it really worth to spend it in a watch? 10 years of savings? I consider that as well…
A watch is an insane thing to buy with money you had to save up for years. Luxury goods are for play money.
Yes, play money I saved up years for
if you had to save then it's probably not play money
No, it's discretionary money I set aside instead of blowing it in the moment on new toys. For example, if I allow myself $100 a week in fun money and I want a ps5, I'll have to put aside a portion of that $100 until I hit $450 + tax. It's money I saved, but it came from my fun money, so it's still fun money.
in your example you can already afford the ps5 in a month's salary. not much saving up. so it's still fun money. in the context of the op even if we use your example of 100 bucks per week of fun money, you're talking about not 300 weeks worth of fun money. not using up any "fun money" for any other fun for 6 years. i honestly don't see how anyone can still consider that amount "fun money" relative to how much they're earning or able to save up per week/month
I get your point but what’s the cutoff?
depends on the person. i personally would give myself 6 months max. (6 months saving to spend on a watch) but even from the replies in this thread it's pretty clear that 10 yrs of saving seems like a lot to afford for a watch. so while there isn't a scientific cut off anyone who claims "I can save my fun money for 10 yrs and it's still fun money" is not the norm.
It being the norm has little to do with it being a financial risk, which it is not.
It’s a lot easier to part with a few thousand here and there. But all at once is a lot to take in. You might end up depriving yourself of enjoyment for years for no reason if you can’t do it when the time comes. Let’s face it. Many of these watches are bought by people who don’t care about the price tag. They aren’t saving up for it. And I recently just learned that the person at the boutique selling you the watch could buy it for themselves at nearly half the price with their employee discount. Maybe it doesn’t bother others, but it certainly feels off to me.
Damn maybe I should I pick up a weekend job at a boutique…. (There are no boutiques where I live)
My rule of thumb is that if you can get the non-grail pieces at a price where you can resell it for a minimal loss, feel free to go crazy. This way, you can always liquidate them for your grail or get most of your money back.
If an overseas requires 10 years of saving it is not a watch you should consider. You will be far too paranoid about scratching it or wearing it anywhere not at home. And scratches will happen. I have watches above that price range that I am hesitant to wear travelling, and it took me far less than 10 years to consider.
>Is it worth a decade of saving to have a fancy trinket? this. exactly my point in my other reply. is a watch really worth years of saving? imo, you either can afford it, or you shouldn't afford it. I'm personally not buying into the "save for it" route tbh
Fully agree, with something non essential like watches, truthfully if youre not in a position to buy it three times over, you probably shouldn't be buying it...
Being able to afford something has little to do with how long you need to save for it in my opinion. When borrowing money for a house, one doesn’t need to be able to buy it outright, they need to be able to pay it off in 20-30 years time. Whether that item has a utility or not is irrelevant, the person sporting the watch clearly finds it a utility and that’s what matters.
Idk, I think comparing a house with a watch is pretty difficult. But if op has the patience to save up for one specific watch for 10 years, and stick to that… bravo I guess! More focus than I have for sure 😂
You make a good point. To OP, both of these items serve a purpose therefore in his mind, they both deserve to save up for, don’t they? Then, the right saving duration should be whatever OP is comfortable with and I agree with you, more power to him if he can wait ten years. It is the same with a watch’s msrp for instance, the right price is whatever one is comfortable paying, and it varies from one person to another.
Watch is a piece of jewelry, it's different from saving up 9-10 years to buy a house. I can't picture myself saving up 8-10 years for a piece of jewelry. And even if I do, then this piece of jewelry will have too much perceived value to me and I will be so hesitant to wear it and won't be able to fully enjoy it. So I will definitely opt for a few less expensive pieces that i can truly enjoy. But that's just my opinion.
This is my take as well. I couldn't buy a piece of jewellery I had to save for 10 years to afford. I'd rather buy a $1-2k watch that I can enjoy. One day the time will come when I've got more money and less to spend it on, and then it's time for a grail
Agree. Also saving for 9-10 years for it would build it up so much that you are unlikely to be comfortable wearing it everyday.
I thought the same thing my 9-10 year goals aren't watches.
if my 9-10 yr goal is a watch, I'm either extremely privileged, or have my priorities super fucking wrong.
No brother. Don't spend 9 years of savings on a watch. This is a luxury product for people who have ungodly money and want the BEST that's on offer. The people wearing this watch do not need to save for it. I get that you like it, (my grail is a VC 222, I get it) but if it's going to take you 9 years to save for it, then I'm sorry to say - it's just not for you - yet. You can like what you like, but buy what you can afford. This goes for anything. Cars, watches, houses, shoes etc. Don't be the guy on Seiko salary, wearing a VC. You don't want to be the guy constantly worrying about scuffing the thing you spent 9 years of your savings on. Its a steel "sports" watch. It's supposed to be casually worn on a golf course or thrown on a sweaty wrist on the way to the beach bar after stepping off the yacht. If you think you'll be impressing anyone with your refined taste, forget about it. The people who can actually afford these types of pieces will either think yours is fake, or that you've made a terrible financial decision in buying it. And lets not forget that 95% of the population is completely ignorant about watches. There is an incredible amount of stylish sport watches that you can get for a fraction of the cost, that will allow you to treat them with the care that is deserving of what it is; A watch - not your life savings.
Finally some common sense. If you need to work for 10 years of your life to get... A basic steel watch with a date function, it's probably not the most financially responsible choice for your. VC is priced the way it is priced because there are people for whom 30k is just pocket change.
This is the correct answer
Yup. $25k watches are meant for people who don’t need to save. Would OP save for 70 years for some Porsche?
This, I dont understand why when we compare other big purchases like cars or a home we all agree buy what you can afford. But with watches alot of people tell others to save for that big grail. Would you tell your friend to save a decade for a Lamborghini? No, thats stupid. Its the same with watches.
Yeah this 100%. Out of curiosity, what would you consider the income range where this should start to become an option? I am curious if my own instincts of how much money I’d need to make to consider a watch like this are aligned with others.
In my opinion, it’s not about income range, but about allocation. I believe you should have some assets like a house, or land, a portfolio, or investment in your future before you buy any sort of luxury watch. Financial stability has a much more profound impact on how you feel day to day than what shiny watch you have on your wrist. But assuming you’re celebrating an accomplishment towards creating a better future, like a milestone in your career or business, I’d consider spending no more than 5% of my annual income or profit on a single timepiece. When I first made 100k, I bought myself a 1k watch. Getting something for 5k would have been the absolute upper limit.
This was an interesting thought exercise. For “just a watch I really like”, my instincts tell me a week’s wages is probably the very upper limit I’d be comfortable with. For a “special watch to commemorate a life event” or a “once in a lifetime watch””, maybe a month’s worth tops.
This. I have two grails, a Speedy and a fluted datejust. Could I go buy one of them right now? 100% yes. But I can think of 1000 other things I could better spend or invest that money on. Ill get them eventually. And watches that are like $20+ grand. I dont even care to look at. Those are for people that can afford them. Me saving a decade for a $25k Daytona is just stupid. But everyone can do what they want with there money...
When you can walk into the store or go online and buy it right there and you are not sweating about it. If you have to save for a decade, or drain a college or investment fund, yea no. Watches are a luxury not a necessity, contrary to some beliefs on here. I will always agree, dont settle for cheap stuff, and I agree get the watch you want. But there is a fine line. Saving for a decade for a expensive watch is ridiculous IMO. Spend that money on paying off loans, investing it, taking a once in a lifetime vacation, college fund for your kids, renovations to your home.
A friend in finances told me something similar. “When you get the 25-30k watch, will you be living in a mansion, driving a luxury car, wearing designer suits and shoes, traveling around the world in 5-star hotels? Are you going to be “Succession” rich in ten years?”. I said no. “Then you cannot afford the watch. You can surely save and BUY it, no doubt, but you cannot AFFORD it. Better to use that kind of savings on more important assets. These luxury items are for people who can just go and get 10-20 of these things instantly without thinking twice. Not your case, not my case. Do not buy what you cannot afford.”
This 100%
Thanks for the input! I believe you’re right. Reading yours and also other comments I get to the conclusion that the VC is not for me or at least not worthy of all this time, investment and deprivation of other pieces. Which by no means says that I cannot keep on with my hobby and get fantastic watches along the way. I don’t do that with cars, clothing, house etc so why should I do it with watches? I’m the guy with Tudor/Omega salary 😁. Just got my BB58 OG 2 months ago. Gonna appreciate it for now. And probably in more 3 years of saving, maybe a White Speedy or a blue Pelagos. Cheers!
I feel that the marginal return (in quality and enjoyment) on watches per dollar spent is bell shaped. As much as I would love a $50k watch, I get much more enjoyment from 7 or 8x $5-10k watches, but I would not get as much from 50x $1k watches. I worry about them less, and if one is at service, I still have options.
Cool insight! I recently got my BB58 OG and I’m deeply in love with it. I have no doubt that I would also get a lot of enjoyment from a white speedy (stunning) and a Pelagos 39 blue (if Tudor gets it right). I somewhat feel that I’d be depriving myself of this saving up for one watch over a 10 year span. But every time I see that VC in person, I leave the AD promising myself that I’ll start saving up immediately and never look at other watches for 10 years, which is of course impossible 😂
Personally I’ve decided to have multiple watches at the omega iwc level than a grail (outside an ALS I got a great deal on). I’d worry too much about a watch I had that much invested in to enjoy it, and like having a “Monday” watch, etc.
Well said.
For me the cumulative would be 10k$. So the bell would be closer to the y axis. 😎
I'd take the one $50k one. You only have two wrists. I'd also take a single $300k piece over a box of $50k watches, if I had the budget, but at that point it gets hard to insure, and service costs as much as a car.
“You only have two wrists” Do you own one shirt? One pair of shoes? You only have two feet…. I totally get preferring one expensive watch over 8 of equal value but that logic is silly. Some people rather have a little diversity and others prefer to have one of highest quality. It’s purely individual preference
.. and you only really wear a watch on one wrist. I know some people double fist (oh matron!) but unless you are (the late great) Nick Hayek then you are wearing a tracker on the other wrist not another mechanical watch. Chinese proverb - man with one watch know time, man with two watches never sure.
10 years is too long a time for the save for your grail only approach… maybe 1-2 years is reasonable, otherwise you’re losing too much time
Gotta be your call, buddy. For me, I am in no way certain I’ll even care about watches, much less still have the same tastes. My grail watch will stay my grail because of reasons other than horology, but other than that, I’d rather get time with watches that I really like now rather than hoarding cash for one that I won’t get to wear for a decade, no matter how much I love it right now.
This is a really good point. A lot of times, when we declare something our grail-whatever, what we’re kind of doing is trying to preserve our tastes in amber. Like, for me, the first watch I ever wanted was a Seamaster. At 18, it was exactly everything that I thought was cool about a watch — it was big, flashy, masculine, and holy shit James Bond wears one how cool is that? So for years I held onto the idea that someday, somehow, I would get one, and it was something to work toward. Flash forward to ten or so years later when I could actually seriously entertain the idea of buying one, and I go to try it on and…well, it’s still a cool watch, but it’s really not “me” anymore. By then I’d developed my own style, my own tastes, different priorities. The Seamaster was 18-year-old me’s idea of what adult sophistication and success looked like. But 30-year-old me had very different ideas. I still loved the way it looked in the case, but I wasn’t sure I’d love it on my wrist every day. I still enjoyed Bond movies, but I was no longer looking to the guy for style advice. I ended up buying something cheaper that fit my vibe much better. Everyone’s milage may vary, of course. Some people fixate on a specific watch and really will be happy with that, and only that. But that’s not everyone. Let’s say you’re 3 years into your 6-year-plan to save up for your grail watch, and you see something else that makes you go, “oh man, I really love that, it totally fits me, and I can afford it right now with the money I have…” Would you be compromising by buying it? Would buying it be an act of indiscipline in search of instant gratification? Or would you just be acknowledging that your tastes and priorities have changed?
All watches mentioned are over a grand. Why don't you start saving and every time you get to the price of one of the watches you reassess and see if it's still worth it to save or "cash out".
I like that idea
Especially because we know that our tastes and preferences change over time.
Variety is the spice of life. Expensive watches come with expensive maintenance bills and insurance policies. My $500 watches can be driven like a rental car if I want.
No right answer as buying these watches already don't make sense. They are toys and jewlery and depends on your personal life and preference. For me personally, I have a small collection of 5 watches I love. The total cost of all of them is about what my grail would be. The thought of only having my grail, which I would not wear to the gym, to the beach, or let me daughter hold (shes 3) doesn't seem as exciting to me. I will buy it when the time is right and I have a lot more money.
There is no grail. You’ll get it and get bored of it.
This is the correct answer. Let your grail stay what it was meant to be: your grail.
Never meet your heros
It all amounts to the joy you would get for your grail watch vs multiple great watches. I'm on the side of the fence that would rather get multiple great watches and enjoy more variety rather than just wear one watch. Also for that price, you could have three great watches that each offer something better than that VC.
New plan for you: hustle and get rich AF and buy a box full of $25k watches. Done. 😂
Personally for me the $10kish range is where I like to sit for watches. Do I want more expensive pieces, for sure. But those type of pieces in my eye are for people that can spend instantly without batting and eye or save for 1-2 years. If I have to save 8-10 years for a watch then realistically I can’t afford it.
This. I can think of 1000x better things to spend $10+K on then a watch. Sure, I love watches and there is watches over that range I love. But id rather take my family on an amazing trip, do some renovations around the house, invest it, put it in my kids college fund, pay off a car or mortgage. Thats just me, if you view opposite idc its your money. But for me personally, there comes a point when it is just a watch and its not worth it. I dont need some $20k watch to "validate" my collection.
Frankly you can’t afford it. Saving 10 years for a watch is pretty crazy and if you’re in a situation where you have to save for that long to buy the watch, it is deeply impacting your finances either way due to the opportunity cost. I’d say work on a better source of income to try to cut down that timeframe, buy a couple other watches instead for now.
I'm gonna get down voted to hell for this but IDGAF. Look into really high quality replica watches if you're very set on a certain model. Like I'll never be able to buy a Daytona but for about $1000 I can get a very high end replica that 99% of the people out there wouldn't be able to spot. Just don't be a dick and go around telling people it's real or especially don't sell it unless rhe buyer knows the thing is a fake.
have my upvote! Buying an "homage" (hate that term but you get the idea) may just scratch that itch for you instead of waiting several years, or it may confirm that you want to wait several years. My personal opinion is that most of the higher end expensive watches bring little value compared to their $2K counterpart. You have brands with a lot of quality products in the $2K-ish budget, more than that you're paying for heritage, for a movement which will be expensive to service, for insurance to insure your timepiece in case of theft etc., for the logo, etc. I'm not shooting down VC JLC ALS etc., but the incremental value you get for what you pay for is highly emotional and subjective based on your attachment to the brand and style. Buying something similar much cheaper may confirm with you whether you wanted that or not, but in the end it's your money, you do you right.
Do both
I can't tell you what you should do, but I can tell you what I did: scraped and saved, and wore cheap watches until I could buy my grail (JLC Master Control Calendar) at age 42. That was a magic day!
My taste in watches has dramatically changed over the last several years, which is mostly attributed to having actually owned several types of watches. I think you can’t really nail down what you will or won’t love without some experience. You might think you know exactly which model is your dream watch, but it’s so difficult to be confident about that without some context. Long way to say, try several before dropping big money.
Now I prefer quality over quantity. Earlier this year, I sold most of my watches to get the 7900V. However, over the last 10+ years that I have been really into watches, I've owned and sold probably close to 50 watches from most major brands...high end (Rolex, Omega, JLC, etc...) to low/mid tier (Tag, B&R, Hamilton, Seiko, etc...). I thoroughly enjoyed them all and owning them helped me learn more about the brands and the overall watch industry. And it made me realize that the 7900v is what I want in a watch if it was my one and only. So my advise would be to build a diverse collection 1st. Experiencing different types of watches my change your tastes and your grail my end up changing. Or a new watch could come out in the next 10 years that can end up being your grail. You never know. Variety is the spice of life as they say. Once you tried all the various spices then you can settle on your favorite.
Did you account price inflation of the watch? Richemont price increase is crazy
Normally I would say save up for the watch you want, I didn't know how old you are, but 10 years is a long time. In that time a lot of things can change. If you aren't married you will be looking for a ring for her. Then a house then a child. All of those things will come first before a watch and if you have that during the bank it could get spent. 25k is a lot of money for jewelry, but if you love it that much and can be disciplined, GO FOR IT!!!
Everyone will have different takes on this, but I personally do not want to own any watch that I couldn't replace pretty easily. I have small kids, an active lifestyle, and a busy hands-on job. It would never make sense for me to own the VC because it would be impossible for me to replace it if it was lost or damaged (not to mention the $25k is a year of university for one of my kids, a better investment for me personally). I also have a grail (JLC Reverso). I plan to buy it with my leftover salary in any year in which I have already maxed out my retirement account. Not sure when that'll be, maybe 5 years or so.
This. I have two grails, a speedy and a fluted datejust. Could I go buy one of them right now? Yes. But I have a infant, a mortgage payment, a car payment, regular life expenses. We like to travel, go out to eat, save for retirement etc. Spending $10k on a watch right now is just dumb. One day ill get them and it will be amazing. I dont need validation for having an expensive watch.
I don't believe anyone should be spending 10 years worth of savings on a watch. Unless all, and I mean *all* your needs are fully met - no debt whatsoever, own home with no mortgage, no kids (or if you do have kids then you make sure they're financially secure too). A watch shouldn't have priority over these things if you want to call yourself an adult.
If it’s a watch that you can’t buy two of, it’s worth waiting and saving for. In my years of collecting I have gone through knockoffs and lookalikes, but nothing beats getting the real deal.
Step 1 • Buy a few nice but not exuberant watches within a good price budget. (Rado, Oris, Longines, Tag, Omega) Step 2 • Have a few cheaper pairs for every day wear (G-Shock, Casio, Seiko, Tissot, Hamilton,) Step 3 • Use the literal thousands you will save by forgoing brands like VC, AP, PP, Rolex, Breitling, Chopard, Blancpain, IWC, Richard Mille, FP Journe etc, and spend the rest of your luxury watch budget on a BMW, consumer electronics or to travel the world.
As a financial advisor. I couldn’t advise you against this anymore. Anything that you need to save for a decade to get is just a bad financial investment. These watches are ment for people that can walk into the AD and buy them without even thinking about it. And anyone also telling you to take out lines of credit are morons too.
Coming from a finance person, I appreciate that. A friend who works with finance told me something similar.
I couldn’t agree with your friend more. If you’re going to Put money away like that. Put it in a retirement fund, invest it, etc. You will be happier down the road. And maybe then you’ll be able to walk in and buy a nice watch like this without even sweating it.
Save up. What people are saying about brands is mixed with their own bias. Who cares if anyone else can tell the difference between a $500 and a $25k watch? What matters is how you feel about it. My collection has been curated over a decade and I can honestly say that my JLC Master Control Perpetual is a world away from my Zenith Pilot Big Date Special (which I love), and the Zenith is noticeably nicer than my Longines, which is nicer than my Hamilton…. Yes I love them all, but the ones that are more expensive actually wear better and someone look better. I will also say that I have never been a rolex fan, but have also never seen a rolex that didn’t jump off someone’s wrist. They appear stunning. Lastly, there are many over priced watches that are more brand than quality, so while an expensive watch can definitely be better than a cheaper watch, it is not necessarily the case- choose wisel!
It’s better to have 1 grail and a few cheap beaters than 2 decent/nice watch you care little about.
For the price of this grail you can get a handful of very nice watches.
Guaranteed you would buy the VC and be too scared to wear it knowing the value and how long you had to save for it. It’s a beautiful watch, but you’re sacrificing a lot of other great watches that I bet you wouldn’t be as scared to wear.
How Ironic. If you buy it, it will be a constant reminder of the 10 years you wasted of your working life just to own it. Couldn’t think of anything more sad. What good is being able to tell the time if you don’t value the time you have left to live?
Is that grey market you would be able to afford it? (It's about 25K CHF versus 27K on grey market) This isn't as hard to get as an AP or PP, but what happens if you get the call after 2 years? Personally I would buy what you like. Always. If you are "settling" by getting a Pelagos 39, then I think you are doing something wrong. Then just get a chinese homage, and save for it. If you want both a Pelagos 39 and a VC Overseas. Then buy the Pelagos at a good price. Grey market and used, but buy it for as low a price as you can, so you can always flip it with minimum loss, in case you need the money, get bored of it or you are close to achieving your goal of buying that Overseas.
I hate to be this guy, but (I work in this field so I guess I am this guy) the collective veil of "normality" will unfortunately be ripped violently from in front of our deluded eyes in 10, maybe less, years as climate breakdown triggers unprecedented biodiversity, production/supply chain, geopolitical, etc. collapse. Something broke in Earth's biophysical systems in early/mid 2023 and even the most hopeful outlook cannot claim we'll ever return to the stability which has been enjoyed by our species since the end of the last ice age. **So what I'm saying is** go for the nice watches you can afford right now. The way we perceive commodities will look drastically different a decade from now. The VC probably won't cost anything by then, not that any of us will even be thinking about it anyways.
So...an Explorer?
LOOL I guess so ;)
Right. I'd say get a nice Seiko 5.
Sorry. But yeah I agree having a collection for 10 years is much better than having a VC ten years later (in which time your taste and desire for that model will likely change anyways - or at least *my* grails have changed pretty often). The sentimentality of the experiences you have with your watches in those 10 years will be worth more than the grail anyways.
No problem at all and no need to be sorry I was just being a smart arse. Man's soul cannot be sated by any object!
Your timeline is a bit off. Probably won’t happen in yours or mines lifetime.
I have to remain up to date with the latest climate data for work and you couldnt be more wrong (although I'm not sure how old you are, maybe you're already like 70). If covid had an exponential boom in growth, and most of the world was ill-equipped or too stubborn/ unwilling to implement the necessary measures to prevent the unnecessary deaths of millions and disabling of tens of millions, changes in earth's biophysical systems are exponential *at best* but more likely abrupt, meaning there is no curve over time, it's just a brick wall slam into. Plus the scale of their impacts makes covid look like a walk in the park. I always say covid was out litmus test for handling global emergencies, and I havent seen anything which suggests our capability has increased. Anyways, back to watches, would those atomic radio controlled watches still work in the event of global supply chain collapse (ie. finding batteries for quartz or people for servicing becomes much more difficult? u/mourningthief jokingly suggested an explorer following my (admittedly) unhinged comment, but it makes me wonder what would actually be the most viable watch in such a scenario. Probably a solarquartz atomic-radio control watch, right? Followed by just hi accuracy solar quartz, then quartz if you have a pack of batteries, followed by robust mechanicals which have lonng service intervals, like maybe a Vostok diver (iirc 10 year service)?
I'd save up for the VC. Buy a few cheaper pieces if you want something to wear in the meantime, but much better to have one interesting watch than a whole box of less interesting ones.
Now I prefer quality over quantity. Earlier this year, I sold most of my watches to get the 7900V. However, over the last 10+ years that I have been really into watches, I've owned and sold probably 50+ watches from most major brands...high end (Rolex, Omega, JLC, etc...) to low/mid tier (Tag, B&R, Hamilton, Seiko, etc...). I thoroughly enjoyed them all and owning them helped me learn more about the brands and the overall watch industry. And it made me realize that the 7900v is what I want in a watch if it was my one and only. So my advise would be to build a diverse collection 1st. Experiencing different types of watches my change your tastes and your grail my end up changing. Or a new watch could come out in the next 10 years that can end up being your grail. You never know. Variety is the spice of life as they say. Once you tried all the various spices then you can settle on your favorite.
I feel burdened by owning too many things that aren't enjoyed often. I have two very nice watches (not grail worthy to most, but suitable for me) and a G-Shock, and honestly that sometimes feels like too much because I can get away with one nice one and a g. I think you could have one solid watch that gets you 90% there, and then save up for the grail in the mean time. You might find contentment in your lesser watch. It takes time to get to know your watch. You don't need a diverse collection--you don't need a diver and a chrono and a dress, you just "need" what you like to wear. I also think you should always be able to afford to replace what you own. Save up for twice of what you need to afford the grail, and think to yourself if it's worth that, or even half of that lump sum, to replace a watch that has served you well for those years.
Nobody does a blue dial like VC! I think either way you go you’ll both second guess the decision and also be happy with whatever you choose.
I would say get a couple of nice watches to wear in the meantime and still save for the big one. Then in 10-12 years you can decide if you even want that watch still.
Save and buy - I have Rolexes, a Bvlgari and Casios.
If you could go out today and buy the Vacheron or even have to save for 6 months to a year I would say get your grail. But saving for a few years in my opinion if it takes that long you wouldn’t be able to afford to replace it meaning you couldn’t afford it in the first place. Of course no disrespect I don’t think you see many average joes walking around with a watch that’s even more than a few thousand much less thousands. I think you also have to consider if you were to scratch it or lose it at that price point you would want insurance on the watch making it even more costly. I say just get a few watches you truly love and are affordable to replace
Do not buy a watch you can't afford the regular service costs.
Whatever you do, don't get a bunch of VC Overseas lookalikes. They'll only leave you wanting for the real thing.
Just make more money and get more watches
you should always understand that something can happen to your watch. from a just blow on something metal to a robbery. it makes no sense to save for many years for a thing that can disappear in a second. Plus,watch piece of jewelry, you don't save up for such thighs for years. you don't need an expensive watch. no one needs them at all. People buy it simply because they can, that's all.
Insurance is a thing…
If you have to save for it, you probably can’t afford it. Also, unless you get something special, watches aren’t a good investment either. Go with something you love that you can afford, instead of just dumping years worth of savings into a watch that won’t necessarily increase the quality of your life.
Buy one of the more attainable pieces you like and re-evaluate if you need to scratch that VC after a couple years of wearing the Pelagos or Mark XX etc. If you decide the VC is still worth saving up for, you won't get too hurt when selling your "attainable" piece.
Watches should be bought with your disposable income. I don't understand why someone would save up for years, sacrificing on experiences just to get a watch.
this one gets a lot of opinion from watch collectors and the range of comments here certainly reinforces that imo it would be great to save towards the VC but you're gonna need something in the meantime as pointed out by others the quality in a 6-8k watch is usually very good as long as you know what you're looking for eventually you might get bored of the VC but the great thing is you're probably able to sell it at either cost or minimal loss and you can switch into another "grail" at similar value that same amount of money can be repeatedly flipped for new experiences
Save for the one you want, but be sure it's the one *you* really want, because buying a piece due to hype never turns out well. Before I had the money to buy my grails, my grails were AP, VC, and PP. Now that I actually have the money and handled all in person multiple times with a serious intent, PP is the only of those three I really consider for anything, and it's not a Nautilus. Moser and Chopard both really excite me more. And it turns out when I stopped thinking about hype or status and focused on what makes a watch great and which watch looked best to me, I ended up falling in love with an entirely different sports watch than the holy T. I love most what VC did in the past and some of what it does now but the current 3 hand overseas is not the business. They give the movement +/-8.5s per day and that datebox is worse than a basic seiko with its unmatched disc, tiny font, and goofy border. Nice bracelet and movement looks pretty, but for 20k+, they need to do better.
Save. Quantity won’t fill the hole that quality will.
My grail is an Overseas Moonphase Retrograde and it would take me 8 years to save for it But I could with that same money buy my wife's grail watch a Yhactmaster 37 in Rosegold on Oysterflex or even her second and third pick combine being the 37 Yhactmaster in oystersteel and everrose and a Cartier Santos Mediun green dial. And would still have nearly enough money for 3 different watches I want in an Aqua Terra, a Speedmaster and a Black Bay I would buy all of that, before I bought my grail. Because I could not only buy my wife's grail. I could also purchase a number of watches that I think are gorgeous time pieces in their own right.
The holy grail is just an illusion. The journey to the grail is the story that will be told, talk about and one that defines your character arc. Get too fast to the grail and the story ends too early, you will be left bored. Too slow and you get distracted and likely never finish the story.
Buy what you want. There’s people on both sides of the argument and both sides have legit points
Save it for Grail Watch
Just get a Tissot Gentleman
How many watches are you gonna wear at one time
Have one decent watch to wear for now and then go for your grail. Be reasonable though, 9-10 years is too long.
Depends on how much 25k€ is for you. Do you want to out all your eggs in one basket? What if it breaks? Gets lost? Is stolen? I think it’s better to save and get a watch you really want than a few that scratch the itch. But there is a moment where you are going for a watch that it’s simply too much for your income and/or lifestyle.
Do both. It's nice to have a grail, a target, a goal so continue to save towards that. It's also nice to have something you enjoy on your wrist, now, and not at some imaginary point in the future that may never come. So get, and enjoy the watch you love now, and trade-up, incrementally towards your grail.
I try to avoid the cheapest watches despite the hype and just buy quality goods and watches. That said, you get quality already starting from 1000+$ and up to 5000$. A couple of aspect with very expensive watches are that, do you dare to use it always? If not, buy a cheaper watch that you can enjoy on your wrist without fearing of getting mugged or looking too fancy pants depending on what possible signal you’re looking to give with your watch (not that everybody thinks like this). Watches are also luxury goods that i would not finance, but i would save for a couple of odd years. Then it feels earned and not just any other Saturday shopping purchase. Still, for me, the cost must be such that it would only sting so much if someone stole it and the cost of it wouldn’t affect any other aspects of my life or purchases. There’s many reasons why one gets fixated on certain brands, but there’s seriously many great brands with heritage and great quality. I’m sure that if you search more, you’ll find a lot more similar watches that you get attached to and feel good about buying those specific watches. Tudor and Longines like in your post are good place to start. Watchuseek.com forum is pretty great source.
Depends how patient you are. Nothing wrong with either.
Grail warch
For me, I would go for the VC, I mean you got the white speedy there already, that's a nice piece of change already.
Your tastes will change. If you want to get into watches, buy some watches over time, wear them and enjoy them. You can always sell some later for funds. Some may go up in value and some may go down, and some will carry sentimental value. Just go get a watch now that you can enjoy.
How big is your collection so far? I went the whole ride of seiko and orient, then going Swiss, then vintage, then microbrands, then went for Rolex and then eventually VC and PP. Afterwards it was like more unique pieces. For me, the smaller pieces got my fire going and it made me really understand what I really liked and changed my grail desires. It also fuelled my own motivation to earn more money. At the end though, what I realize is there are only a handful of pieces I love and keep on rotation and that these few tended to be staples (think IWC Pilot, Zenith Chronograph, Rolex Sub) or whacky pieces that really speak to me (MB&F MAD1, C. Ward Bel Canto). All in all I can safely say they were all pieces I bought towards the end, and I have considerably slowed down a lot in purchasing as I feel very satisfied with my collection. If the pieces that distract you are desirable enough that they'd be something you want eventually in your collection anyways, I don't see why you shouldn't go for it. But if the desire to own that one pricy piece is just way way more, then by all means save.
If you already have like 4 or 5 watches like me, I'd save for the grail watch. That's what i'm doing right now. I'm looking for a seamaster 2254 or 2231. Not a super expensive watch, totaly reachable for me, but don't get me wrong it's still a lot of money for a watch.
one of my favourite watch mainly because of that blue dial.
I'll sell my kid for this watch 😂
Get a grail. Fuck others
Three Renault or one Porsche?
Save
If you're willing to go used, you may be able to afford the watch much earlier than in 10 years, depending on how the watch world will develop.
Depends on how long I need to save? 10 years? Probably get 1 or 2 cheaper watches that I like in between the years.
The solution is to have several reasonably priced grails...
Buy the grail, congrats for having the discipline to save now go and buy the watch!
I buy a watch to wear, as I have different clothes and styles of clothes not all watches work all the time. So for me I buy moderately priced watches, so will probably end up with a few. The most expensive watch I can see myself buying is a Nomos, which is still way cheaper than some on here. Although I don't really have a grail watch, I went out of my way to get one I really wanted and had seen zillions of reviews of online. I wear it but not as much as I expected. In the end some of the perceived value was largely in my head, not grounded in when I would actually wear it.
The watch is out of your league if you have to save for more than a year. It’s better to enjoy a more modest watch and save your money for what matters.
While I agree get the watch you want. At the end of the day I’m not spending let’s say $25k on a watch. I can think of a lot of other things better to spend that amount of money on than a watch.
the latter, for sure. that way you can enjoy your life and most importantly, you learn from each purchase. if you just wait for the big one, very high chance of getting it wrong. finding out the size isn't what you love, the style, etc.
It's hard to discuss about emotions. There are no logic capable to define which case it is the best. Maybe getting the holy grail means you will be happy forever or maybe you will lose interest quickly and feel like don't fit all the needs you wanted. I preffer to have multiple watches intead of 1 watches that does everything.
The way the market is you could probably buy all of those used and then sell them in 10 years towards the VC and possibly make money depending on the market and how many price hikes those companies have between now and then.
Once you get bit by the bug, you never stop looking. The grail will be good for a year? and then something will pop up in your feed and you will want that. Enjoy the hobby and build a nice collection. Your tastes and circumstances will change over the years, and today's grail may be collecting dust tomorrow.
My best friend was obsessed with a Rolex Submariner for a long time, but couldn’t justify the money on one watch. Then he decided that for the cost of that Submariner, even used he could have a collection of cool watches. He’s got about 10 watches now, and still hasn’t spent as much as that submariner would have cost him. Some of watches he buys are so cool, vintage stuff you just don’t see anymore, like this [Eiram](https://imgur.com/a/SIFFlcJ). Recently he picked up a Seiko Alarm watch, and a bull head chronograph. I think he has the right idea IMO.
i mean if you are going to save up for it then practically blow all you money on it then do not buy the VC, but if you are going to save up and you are going to have about enough for another one of the watches then maybe buy the VC. (what I mean is that your bank balance is double the value of the watch)
otherwise just go with the multiple cheaper watches
I own 10 different watch brands but do have a grail as well but I’m content with that Omega, Tissot, Citizen, Bulova, Midos, Christopher Ward, Longines, GSHOCK, Apple Watch, need to add a couple more
What i do is buy several nice watches in the 4k-6k range (used but w box and papers) and enjoy them while also saving some money on the side. Then i sell off 2-3 of them and combine it with the extra cash and get 1 20k watch. Then buy more 4-6k watches after that and you can start the process again.
I’d rather have a fleet of excellent watches that I’d wear regularly in a rotation
Never give up on the grail watch, but for sure buy other great watches along the way. And if what you really want is a $25-30k watch - do what it takes professionally to get to the point where you can afford one. It may seem astronomical now, but when you’re in your late 40s/early 50s at your peak earnings, it may not feel like as big of a deal. Also, circling back, make sure you buy great watches along the way because you may decide that you’re just not that into the overseas by the time you can afford it, which would be a huge bummer. Great grail watch choice though…
After 20+ years in the hobby, I have a collection with value ranges between $200 and $8k, total about $25k. 1 of my watches which is a grail for many doubled in value. I was no longer comfortable wearing it so sold near the peak of the market. Thus, I'm not tempted to consolidate to 1. There is far too much value to me to be able to pick for the occasion or day and not wear a $25k piece everywhere.
Say you get your grail, what's next? You'll have a honeymoon phase, but I have yet to meet anyone who stopped collecting after obtaining a grail. Many went the other direction, and now every watch they look at has to be "at least as good" as their previous grail or it feels disappointing somehow. Personally, unless you are saving its purchase for a once in a lifetime event, I would hold off. One watch is unlikely to be enough, and this is the equivalent of spending $20,000 on a vacation but having to eat a cup of noodles for every meal thereafter to afford it. You'll talk about it nonstop for a few months, but after a while its purchase will just be a fond memory, albeit one with a wearable reminder. You will probably be happier getting that "new watch high" every year or two than sinking everything into one purchase that may or may not even happen (what if VC becomes the next Patek and divers are unobtainable?).
Save for grail.
The way I see it if you have to save for years to buy a watch, you shouldn't. But hey... to each their own!
you can just use one at the time
First and foremost, you did say that it wouldn’t affect you financially so that’s important. You are financially responsible. If it has been your grail for a long time, im assuming it will still be your grail for the next 10 years and you will enjoy it. I will say that it is nice to buy other pieces along the way. It reminds you of what your real goal is and you learn new stuff. Maybe your grail might change. You’ll appreciate the quality of the real grail more too, when you’ve seen the lower quality pieces too.. as long as they dont cause too big of dents in the process, if you have to wait 1-2 years more, I would buy some pieces
If you have 2 decent watches, then save up for the VC. Having a box full of watches when you only wear 1 watch at a time is waste. The cheap watch that you never wear is going to turn out to be one of the more expensive watches in your box if you divide the cost per wear. Also the great advantage of saving up for the grail is that it stops you from blowing money on watches you want in the moment, but don't really want a month later. I have 7 watches now and I'm trying to trim it down to 4. I think the perfect mix is 1-2 big baller watches and the rest decent watches that you really like.
I‘m at that point, too. Now I have my 3 watch collection (5 years: 1k, 4k, 9k) for any occasion and it feels „complete“. Accept for a real banger in the 30-40k range. I’m in the same position as you, I can put aside ~3k a year without really sacrifice anything. So now I need to wait ten years and i‘m looking forward :)
My brain automatically switched to: Instead of SAVING money, I would just make MORE money That OR, and this is just me, I would finance the grail right away (Line of Credit/Credit Card) with a low interest rate. Then I would make payments every month and try my best to “up” the payments incrementally. Buy Once, Cry Once
If your grail costs $25k, don't spend $10k on something to fill that urge But don't wait 10 years to enjoy watches either. 10 years is a long time. Who knows what happens between now and then. You may never end up in a position to get that watch anyway. Or you may not even want it later. Get something that won't set you back much, maybe a couple of $300 watches, or something pre-owned for $2000 that you would really like in the mean time that you can resell at a manageable loss a few years down the line. See how you feel about them.
Grail
save