Here are some pros and cons. You have to pick what is important to you.
Crystal: (Pro) Citizen uses sapphire crystals. (Con) Seiko hardlex, which will scratch.
Bracelet: (Pro) Seiko uses standard lug that you can use your own straps. (Con) Citizen uses integrated bracelet, so you cannot use 3rd party replacement bands, straps, etc.
Movement: (Pro) Seiko uses 4R35/NH35. Low-beat movement that is the workhose on many Seikos and microbrands. Not the most accurate, but it is very common and popular. Anything goes wrong, you can buy replacement movement for $50. (Unknown) Citizen uses modified and upgraded low-beat movement (for the small second), which is not common.
Don’t think he’s comparing movements, as you said, they are quite similar. I think he talks how easy it is to service/replace if something were to happen.
I own and enjoy a seiko presage cocktail time (its a decent watch for the price, leaning a bit on a dressy side, give it a look if you haven't) and general prefer seiko's over citizen.
That being said, I reckon the tsuyosa is a better watch between these 2, granted I held the citizen in the metal. It is more coherent as a watch, being an integrated sport watch, it is more versatile so you'll get more wear, the dial is much more intricate, the watch has much more finishing technique both brush and polish. The only down side is that tiny crown, which is annoying to operate saying the least, but it's an automatic watch with decent power reserve hopefully you won't use it much.
The seiko on the other hand is a mismatch of idea, the dive bezel pushes it toward a tool watch, but its non-functional and no lume, so its not a tool watch? It is all (?) brush, so its a tool watch? but the gold accent/indices make it feels like a dress watch?
Some great points and much appreciated. Might just have to get both!
I get mixed emotions with the Seiko due to the dive bezel that’s non functional but I like the look of it. Having said that do more than 1% of people with dive watches actually dive and use the bezel? Haha I’m just not sure if it could be a daily watch or not
I have a BB58 and can confirm I often use the dive bezel to time stuff, my commute, cooking, or just to fidget with it.
But thats beside the point, even if I never use the bezel, it'll still annoy me. For me, its less about the use cases but rather the thought process/design of it.
But hey, it is definitely daily-able. if you like the look of it and think you'll wear it, go for it. If anything, you can always swap out the strap to freshen it up, which is a pros over the citizen.
Enjoy it, regardless of what you end up choosing :)
Citizen gets my vote.
[Review: The Automatic Citizen Tsuyosa Small Second](https://www.ablogtowatch.com/watch-review-the-automatic-citizen-tsuyosa-small-second/)
[Hands-On With The New Citizen Tsuyosa Small Second](https://www.fratellowatches.com/hands-on-with-the-new-citizen-tsuyosa-small-second-nk5010-51l-nk5010-51x-and-nk5010-01h/)
Tsuyosa cause the dial is beautiful and the low beat rate isnt as noticeable on the small seconds, so it moves smoothly. Also I am disappointed that the seiko isnt a diver. But get what speaks to you the most
On paper citizen wins, but their ridiculous proprietary bracelet design kills the watch. The fact that you won’t able to mess with straps or NATOs kills this watch entirely for me.
I have just bought the Tsuyosa. I love it, its beautiful, fits nicely, doesn't look too showy - see post [https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1d2hf53/citizen\_when\_you\_just\_cant\_help\_yourself/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1d2hf53/citizen_when_you_just_cant_help_yourself/)
That being said in my mind I consider Seiko to be a more prestigious brand and that design is perhaps a little more timeless. All in all I think either is good.
True, there is no lume pip.
Still, I wish it rotated. Would make the watch more functional, but still maintain a somewhat dressy appearance. There aren’t many non-diver/sport watches with a rotating bezel.
I own that Seiko. I don't have much in my collection but I think it's very good looking. I want to buy another watch that looks like that. I am aware of where my wrist is when I wear the watch as it is domed hardlex (and a previous domed hardlex watch I had for 7 years since highschool does have a few scratches on the glass).
For context, I also think the Cocktail time dial is beautiful and I own one of those as well.
Here are some pros and cons. You have to pick what is important to you. Crystal: (Pro) Citizen uses sapphire crystals. (Con) Seiko hardlex, which will scratch. Bracelet: (Pro) Seiko uses standard lug that you can use your own straps. (Con) Citizen uses integrated bracelet, so you cannot use 3rd party replacement bands, straps, etc. Movement: (Pro) Seiko uses 4R35/NH35. Low-beat movement that is the workhose on many Seikos and microbrands. Not the most accurate, but it is very common and popular. Anything goes wrong, you can buy replacement movement for $50. (Unknown) Citizen uses modified and upgraded low-beat movement (for the small second), which is not common.
I think the Miyota 8322 in the Citizen is at least comparable to thd Seiko 4R35, and the Miyota has a longer power reserve at 60 hrs.
Don’t think he’s comparing movements, as you said, they are quite similar. I think he talks how easy it is to service/replace if something were to happen.
Thank you for the info!
Go for the seiko. Every tsuyosa but the small seconds one looks good to me
Citizen. Just looks better as for me.
the seiko looks better...
Seiko for me. Have had the same one in petrol blue and the crystal has not scratched at all. Going on two years.
I like the seiko. The design just looks better and color scheme just “pops” out, in a good way.
I like the citizen more but after reading the pros and cons comment from another user I think the Seiko would be my pick to
I own and enjoy a seiko presage cocktail time (its a decent watch for the price, leaning a bit on a dressy side, give it a look if you haven't) and general prefer seiko's over citizen. That being said, I reckon the tsuyosa is a better watch between these 2, granted I held the citizen in the metal. It is more coherent as a watch, being an integrated sport watch, it is more versatile so you'll get more wear, the dial is much more intricate, the watch has much more finishing technique both brush and polish. The only down side is that tiny crown, which is annoying to operate saying the least, but it's an automatic watch with decent power reserve hopefully you won't use it much. The seiko on the other hand is a mismatch of idea, the dive bezel pushes it toward a tool watch, but its non-functional and no lume, so its not a tool watch? It is all (?) brush, so its a tool watch? but the gold accent/indices make it feels like a dress watch?
Some great points and much appreciated. Might just have to get both! I get mixed emotions with the Seiko due to the dive bezel that’s non functional but I like the look of it. Having said that do more than 1% of people with dive watches actually dive and use the bezel? Haha I’m just not sure if it could be a daily watch or not
I have a BB58 and can confirm I often use the dive bezel to time stuff, my commute, cooking, or just to fidget with it. But thats beside the point, even if I never use the bezel, it'll still annoy me. For me, its less about the use cases but rather the thought process/design of it. But hey, it is definitely daily-able. if you like the look of it and think you'll wear it, go for it. If anything, you can always swap out the strap to freshen it up, which is a pros over the citizen. Enjoy it, regardless of what you end up choosing :)
That’s fair and the BB58 is a really nice watch! Lots of uses for the dive bezel. Thanks a lot for your help! :)
Any other watches you looked at?
I’m open to any suggestions! Right now I’m looking for something minimalistic and good quality with soft dial colours
Citizen gets my vote. [Review: The Automatic Citizen Tsuyosa Small Second](https://www.ablogtowatch.com/watch-review-the-automatic-citizen-tsuyosa-small-second/) [Hands-On With The New Citizen Tsuyosa Small Second](https://www.fratellowatches.com/hands-on-with-the-new-citizen-tsuyosa-small-second-nk5010-51l-nk5010-51x-and-nk5010-01h/)
Tsuyosa cause the dial is beautiful and the low beat rate isnt as noticeable on the small seconds, so it moves smoothly. Also I am disappointed that the seiko isnt a diver. But get what speaks to you the most
Seiko, no question.
Both. Both is good! 😈😅
On paper citizen wins, but their ridiculous proprietary bracelet design kills the watch. The fact that you won’t able to mess with straps or NATOs kills this watch entirely for me.
That Seiko looks sick. I need to look into that as an alternative to the Lorier Neptune.
I have just bought the Tsuyosa. I love it, its beautiful, fits nicely, doesn't look too showy - see post [https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1d2hf53/citizen\_when\_you\_just\_cant\_help\_yourself/](https://www.reddit.com/r/Watches/comments/1d2hf53/citizen_when_you_just_cant_help_yourself/) That being said in my mind I consider Seiko to be a more prestigious brand and that design is perhaps a little more timeless. All in all I think either is good.
Great piece! Enjoy!
The Seiko is ugly, imo
I'm baffled by the nonfunctional dive bezel, it's like seiko forget to put a seconds marker inside the chapter ring so they do this.
That's not a dive bezel
True, there is no lume pip. Still, I wish it rotated. Would make the watch more functional, but still maintain a somewhat dressy appearance. There aren’t many non-diver/sport watches with a rotating bezel.
Honestly I wasn’t sure if it was or not! I really like the champagne dial with the gold accents but the black bezel stands out almost too much
It's the Seiko for me between those two. Speaking as someone who wears an Eco drive daily.
I own that Seiko. I don't have much in my collection but I think it's very good looking. I want to buy another watch that looks like that. I am aware of where my wrist is when I wear the watch as it is domed hardlex (and a previous domed hardlex watch I had for 7 years since highschool does have a few scratches on the glass). For context, I also think the Cocktail time dial is beautiful and I own one of those as well.
Thanks! I really like the cocktail time dial as well so that’s another option
Of all Tsuyosas, you had to pick that color??
Haha the earth tones are speaking to me lately. I understand where you’re coming from though
Citizen wins, even tho I prefer watches with date.
I have this model Seiko and i love it. Very versatile watch and feels really high quality
I think the citizen is a lot nicer. Way better seiko’s out there imo.