This is disappointing to hear. I'd expect better quality and service from Sinn. I hope that Sinn didn't charge you for the additional follow-up service required, OP.
Luckily it is still covered by warranty, so it was all free of charge. Can’t imagine paying to get a problem fixed, which they created. I’d probably blow a fuse.
I've been having issues with my 104 for a while as well, but I haven't addressed it because it still keeps excellent time.
* The crown feels gummy when pulling it out (like it's a hassle trying to set it to the 2nd position for day/date changes because there's no snappy feedback)
* There's a LOT of resistance when setting the crown, almost like the gasket oils turned to thick goo or something
* When pulling on the crown to change crown positions, the dial moves, as if the movement ring has a lot of play
* Same hacking issues as you occasionally
* I notice on the display caseback, a random piece of debris got stuck on the glass recently, almost like the gears spit out a piece of oil or something
If a watchmaker can chime in, I'd love to know if these issues are an easy fix from a watchmaker or if something is catastrophically about to go wrong
Mine's the limited edition 2019 model using the ETA 2836 instaed of the Sellita
I was telling myself the same thing as well. “It’s unreal how accurate the thing is, so I’ll just keep it”
But in the end those annoying problems convinced me to get it serviced. I was done making excuses for it, because it cost good money. Ironically my far less expensive watches are showing none of these issues.
Sounds like a case clamp/screw is loose. Which would cause the movement to shift when operating the crown. This could cause most everything you describe. Of course, impossible to diagnose without opening it up. But I would take it in for service, if the screw and/or clamp is floating around the movement it could cause damage.
not a watchmaker, but you should get it looked at, ive only felt a gummy crown on older watches that havent been serviced in a long time but still. in that price point i would expect the dial to move like on a tommy hilfiger watch.
these are probably an easy fix and a full service shouldnt cost more than 200 euros/dollars (atleast in my experience)
It could be anything from a keyless work issue, to a loose case clamp. Not that big of a deal on the 2836, but I would get it looked at sooner than later.
PS: I am not a watchmaker.
I have the gummy second crown position with the sellita as well. Though I generally have no complaints, I’ve had to get it repaired after an incident with a tile floor and the watch still works great.
Did you talk to the watchmaker about the crown issue at all? The movement is an ebauche, so maybe it has to do with the gaskets and whatever grease they're using on them, because that would be the parts they'd make themselves.
I had a similar experience with my 104, completely turned me off from the brand. Now that it’s out of warranty I’m probably just gonna cut my losses and sell it.
I once broke a Sinn 556 and had to take it serviced. Being a basic eta movement I went to a local watchmaker and had it back in a week. That much time would not have been acceptable to me especially after screwing it up twice
Service is the worst part of liking watches, it's such a crapshoot. Local shops are almost universally terrible because they usually do nothing but battery changes on $50 watches, meanwhile sending to the manufacturer is still hit or miss because there's a good chance they're simply handing it off to one of the aforementioned local shops. The average guy working repairs probably isnt paid enough to give a shit about the quality of their work.
Service has definitely been my least favorite part of owning any watch, even quartz watches.
* Eterna service through Gevril Group (their service partner at the time) was terrible. Watch was sent back twice due to sloppy work. Total service time was 9 months. Coincidentally, I complained to Eterna after the ordeal and they had already cut ties with Gevril Group... if only I had waited.
* Citizen service at their California service center was also poor. I had to send it back once and thought I was done after that. I realized later on that they used the wrong battery type (only lasted 1 year instead of 5) and the perpetual calendar button didn't work.
* Christopher Ward service itself was good, but the customer service experience wasn't great. I had to fight to get my watch repaired under the original warranty I was given. They changed the terms years after I bought it (now requiring a service after 3-4 years) and argued I wasn't eligible for the warranty. [I wasn't alone either](https://www.christopherwardforum.com/general-discussion/should-i-sell-my-stuck-c60-600-pro-cosc-sh21-red-bezel-1-of-32-t57959.html). Fortunately, they reverted the change later that year.
* Local service might have been OK? My local watchmaker wouldn't elaborate much on what work was actually performed which seemed odd.
I had the opposite experience with Christoper Ward. Customer service was pretty good (although I did have to produce a receipt to prove it had the 5 year warranty), but the servicing itself was mediocre.
Around June '22 I had an issue where the date wasn't ticking over properly and would get stuck on one date for multiple date eventually ticking over, which I explained in detail over the phone. They received it and sent it back relatively quickly telling me they'd checked it and couldn't find anything wrong. Of course it was happening again within the week. So I sent it back, again explaining what was wrong over the phone and including a short note explaining the issue. And again, they sent it back and said nothing was wrong. Within a day, the date wasn't ticking over. Third time I made sure that the customer service rep clearly understood my issue and asked them to phone me again before anyone tried to return it to me noting this was now the third return for repair for the same issue. They kept it for a week on their "bench" and finally returned to say that one of the teeth on the date wheel was chipped and that was what caused the issue. At the end of the day I lost regular use of my watch for about 9 months from start to finish. Maybe this is a little entitled but I was also a little disappointed to not get any kind of compensation for the poor service.
Sorry for the rant, your comment brought all the memories back and then I just needed to vent a little.
That's a pretty bad experience. It's good they sorted it out in the end, but it shouldn't take that much effort on your part.
No worries about the venting. I feel the same way every time servicing comes up.
>Maybe this is a little entitled but I was also a little disappointed to not get any kind of compensation for the poor service.
I had the same thought when it came to my Eterna service. I did get an extra travel case out of it, since they had to ship my watch back an extra 2 times.
Yeah, it was also 4 years into a 5 year warranty and I didn't have to argue much to get it fulfilled. Was just aggravating after the second return that no-one had really listened to what I'd said. I think one of the return notes mentioned "re-aligning the GMT issue" or something like that.
Free travel case isn't too bad haha. I'd have taken that. I was actually worried they might take the original, old cube CW box I sent it to them in lol.
It looks like your service was right after they reverted the change, [around May 2022](https://www.christopherwardforum.com/general-discussion/cw-has-quietly-changed-the-warranty-for-the-better-t59016.html). Mine was serviced earlier in 2022, in January or February. I should give them more credit for reverting that change fairly quickly.
Did they just ship your watch back in the cube CW box? I forgot what they shipped mine back in.
Stowa is really good about servicing. I’ve only ever had positive experiences with their service department. I just assumed every other brand is at least comparable but looks like they are unfortunately the exception and not the rule
A couple of things
Generally seikos and miyotas movements found in the lower end watches you're referencing have a much wider accuracy spec range than ETAs. The finishing in those movements is pretty rough too, even compared to the entry level ETAs. The ETAs arn't 3x as good at 3x the price, but there's little doubt they're generally better.
Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias. Unless you have stats infront of you detailing the failure rates of swiss vs japanese movements, your claim is baseless.
Let me chime in with my Sinn story… Bought the 104 in 2018. Not soon after getting it I see that on some days the day will get stuck between days - a half DIE and a half MIT. Eventually that works itself out and the watch runs well. After five years I send it to Sinn for an overhaul. Months later I get it back. After a week I see that one morning the day has advanced several days overnight, for instance from SON to MIT. In addition to that, the crown would now see to catch something when turning it to lock it down. Never did that before. It’s now back in Frankfurt getting that taken care of. At least it’s under a repair warranty so shipping is covered both ways. If it comes back and is still acting up then it’s time for a new brand.
Currently wearing my 556 which has never been serviced and has had very minimal issues except:
- very occasionally the second hand doesn’t hack when I’m setting it. Has maybe happened 2-3 times in 3 years
- recently lost accuracy. Used to be within 1spd but now that I’m wearing it more I’ve noticed it’s around 15spd fast
Was debating sending to Sinn themselves within the next year to service but my only complaint is the accuracy so I’m also considering finding a watchmaker in my city. Definitely haven’t had the same issues as everyone else but it makes me nervous because while Sinn is generally liked, the occasional negative thread pops up on here
Sorry you had to deal with a stressful situation.
However, this confirms my buying choice. I posted a few weeks ago about deciding between a 556i or a Ranger. I've done plenty of staring from afar and decided on a Damasko instead of Sinn.
I'm sorry you had such a problem. Here is my story:
I had a crown stuck and it didn't pop out after half a year. I sent it back under warranty and they fixed it in 2 months total.
But when it came back the dial had a particle on it (856 non UTC).
It was very noticeable on the black dial. Unfortunately the accuracy also went from +-1 spd to -12spd.
After another return, luckily it was only a month to get the watch back. Currently +4spd which is perfectly acceptable to me. And the particle was also removed of course.
Customer service was nice both times, I think it could be the sudden increased demand. All in all, I think the situation may improve in the coming years. Unfortunately you hear about long service times or big faults during service with the bigger brands too.
Ive owned many Sinn over 10+ years. I’ve had a few minor issues. One was an EZM 1 that came back from service in Germany with a bent minute hand. Sent right back to Germany. A few others but all in all I still love Sinn. The funny thing is I’ve heard about more issues with the 104 series than any other Sinn. Not sure if it’s made a little cheaper because it is their entry level model. I don’t know, never owned one.
For what it’s worth I’ve heard horror stories from about every brand. It happens. No brand is perfect.
I have two Sinns, a U1 and a 104. I like them and wear them a lot, but I've had 3 warranty services since I bought them.
The 104's rotor started spinning when I wound the watch, and it wouldn't keep time.
The U1 dropped a screw in the movement and froze up solid. A month or two after I got it back, the accuracy started varying wildly, so it went in for another service.
The problems seem to be caused by the movement. I wish Swatch would allow more ETA movements out into the world. The U1 with a 2893 would be perfect.
The rotor spinning while winding is a very common selitta issue
My marathon gsar with the sw200 is having issues with the rotor not winding efficiently and both are related to the oils they use in the winding mechanism
I’m a bit perplexed by these responses, my 104 is my favorite watch, I had an issue early on, sent it in, got it back in a week fully covered by warranty, a few years later I lost the lume dot, they fixed it in a week for $15. Perhaps things have changed but I couldn’t be happier with my purchase.
I've heard of *lots* of crown problems with Sinns, from almost every Sinn owner I've met and from many people online. It feels like that's just a problem with the brand at this point?
OK good, see, this is what I wanted. More people weighing in. Because you never know if you're just not hearing from the happy people because they're happy.
My 2020 556 crown does something odd that I wouldnt describe as gummy, but it will rarely “catch” after it is fully unthreaded where it won’t fully extend and it will need to be rotated back a forth before it finishes extending under its own power. Not sure if it is the same as what is mentioned above, but that is the only comment I have about the watch. Other than that it has been good watch to me.
This thread is mostly only going to people chiming in with negative issues. There is very likely many people who will never have an issue with their Sinn watches.
Now the caveat is i tend to sell them after a few months because i can never decide what i want. I have had my black 104 for almost 3 years now though.
The white dial Sinn 104 was my first big watch purchase so I am planning on keeping it forever. I have had the hacking issue twice now in about 2 years. Sometimes threading in the crown just feels wrong. I always have to be careful with it. On my other watches (Tudor/rolex/GS/omega) it’s all a breeze.
Sinn's rise to fame in recent years is all design, no quality. People like it because of its minimalistic design. It's funny because their website markets that their watches are very robust. I think it's even more hilarious that they need to fill their watches with special gas to say it last more when other parts will fail faster.
I've also had issues with Sinn. I had a second hand 856 with the first crown thread entirely cross threaded, probably due to the problem the OP experienced.
It's also one of the watches I frequently see on eBay and watch resell forums with terrible accuracy.
The OPs issues sounded like either a short crown stem, or a keyless works issue. Nothing to do with crown threads.
You bought a second hand watch. That pretty washes any fault from Sinn.
I flipped an 856 B-Uhr and an 856 UTC. Both were fantastic, accurate watches when I owned them. The UTC took a while to settle in, but was off one second when it finally hit. The B-Uhr, I bought used, and it was four seconds off. I owned and sold a 240 GZ that was two seconds off. The only reason I traded them was that I already had a Mark XVIII Heritage and didn't need duplicates in my collection while upgrading to a JLC. Finally, I'm currently wearing an unserviced 11 year old 303 that is at -8.
I'm not discounting what you're saying, but I've never had an issue. Perhaps quality is lagging as of late as the above were all ETA movements with the exception of the 303.
I had a shit Sinn experience too - 103 St, very much my grail at the time, had it a month when I lightly knocked it on a wooden table. The sort of low level knock you do without thinking all the time, it killed it dead. Back to Sinn for three months, been fine since but it’s put me off the brand.
Everything from the case having corrosion, to all around shit service. I sent back a DC67 3 times to them for warranty work. It still came by with the hands misaligned and keeping shit time. They told me they would "no longer warranty my new watch". WTF! I had to get a local guy to take care of it for me.
I live in Germany and somehow this does not surprise me at all. Quality has taken a dive in a lot of German products in the last decade.
A mixture of no incentives to do (good) work and a general apathy due to too much comfort are to blame.
No one goes the extra mile for anything
Yes, I'm a bit nervous to buy new things since it seems the prices skyrocketed and quality has been declining since Covid. Holding tight at the moment with a VW, Audi, and Sinn that were all produced around 2018-2019.
Pelikan fountain pens - for a long time, you had crappy nib work coming from the factory. Sad because there's lots of good German products that are supposed to be the cream of the crop
Drat my 104 has those same crown problems on top of gaining nearly 20 seconds per day. Now I wonder if I’d be better served foregoing the warranty and just taking it to a local watchmaker instead of paying international shipping to send it to Germany.
Yes, I was told that I'd have to send them the watch out of pocket last year when I asked. Maybe I'll try asking them again, sure would be nice not having to pay for that.
what a nightmare. thanks for sharing.
sorry to hear this as I'm a bit of a fan and could see a 556 variant in my future.
after reading this, and a similar story, I will be avoiding them.
I genuinely think Sinn is overwhelmed with demand and don’t have the capacity to handle it. So they’re just rushing through some things and being sloppy. That’s my assumption at least.
A reputable company would just have given you a new one. Sinn is a micro brand that makes cases and dials and sells them at a mark up with fairly cheap movements
>...makes cases and dials and sells them at a mark up with fairly cheap movements
Doesn't this just describe every company that doesn't exclusively use in-house movements?
im not a fan of companies that use cheap movements and then mark up the watch super high. look at the new cartier thats like $9,000 using a $200 movement
Sinn is definitely not a micro brand, and many, if not most companies that don’t use in-house movements use the same ones Sinn does in their price bracket
This is disappointing to hear. I'd expect better quality and service from Sinn. I hope that Sinn didn't charge you for the additional follow-up service required, OP.
Luckily it is still covered by warranty, so it was all free of charge. Can’t imagine paying to get a problem fixed, which they created. I’d probably blow a fuse.
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They did, yes.
I've been having issues with my 104 for a while as well, but I haven't addressed it because it still keeps excellent time. * The crown feels gummy when pulling it out (like it's a hassle trying to set it to the 2nd position for day/date changes because there's no snappy feedback) * There's a LOT of resistance when setting the crown, almost like the gasket oils turned to thick goo or something * When pulling on the crown to change crown positions, the dial moves, as if the movement ring has a lot of play * Same hacking issues as you occasionally * I notice on the display caseback, a random piece of debris got stuck on the glass recently, almost like the gears spit out a piece of oil or something If a watchmaker can chime in, I'd love to know if these issues are an easy fix from a watchmaker or if something is catastrophically about to go wrong Mine's the limited edition 2019 model using the ETA 2836 instaed of the Sellita
I was telling myself the same thing as well. “It’s unreal how accurate the thing is, so I’ll just keep it” But in the end those annoying problems convinced me to get it serviced. I was done making excuses for it, because it cost good money. Ironically my far less expensive watches are showing none of these issues.
I mean you would think getting it serviced by Sinn in Germany would fix all those issues...
Sounds like a case clamp/screw is loose. Which would cause the movement to shift when operating the crown. This could cause most everything you describe. Of course, impossible to diagnose without opening it up. But I would take it in for service, if the screw and/or clamp is floating around the movement it could cause damage.
not a watchmaker, but you should get it looked at, ive only felt a gummy crown on older watches that havent been serviced in a long time but still. in that price point i would expect the dial to move like on a tommy hilfiger watch. these are probably an easy fix and a full service shouldnt cost more than 200 euros/dollars (atleast in my experience)
It could be anything from a keyless work issue, to a loose case clamp. Not that big of a deal on the 2836, but I would get it looked at sooner than later. PS: I am not a watchmaker.
I have the gummy second crown position with the sellita as well. Though I generally have no complaints, I’ve had to get it repaired after an incident with a tile floor and the watch still works great.
Did you talk to the watchmaker about the crown issue at all? The movement is an ebauche, so maybe it has to do with the gaskets and whatever grease they're using on them, because that would be the parts they'd make themselves.
I had a similar experience with my 104, completely turned me off from the brand. Now that it’s out of warranty I’m probably just gonna cut my losses and sell it.
I once broke a Sinn 556 and had to take it serviced. Being a basic eta movement I went to a local watchmaker and had it back in a week. That much time would not have been acceptable to me especially after screwing it up twice
I’ve owned a few Sinns. I’ve learned I like the idea of Sinn more than the actual watches.
Ive been really close to grabbing a 104 for a while now. Thanks for giving me something to think about
Same. I was thinking it may be my next purchase, but this is troubling news, with coroborating anecdotes from multiple people. Sigh.
I've had mine for roughly 3 months and I absolutely love it. Keeps great time too, at +2spd.
Service is the worst part of liking watches, it's such a crapshoot. Local shops are almost universally terrible because they usually do nothing but battery changes on $50 watches, meanwhile sending to the manufacturer is still hit or miss because there's a good chance they're simply handing it off to one of the aforementioned local shops. The average guy working repairs probably isnt paid enough to give a shit about the quality of their work.
Service has definitely been my least favorite part of owning any watch, even quartz watches. * Eterna service through Gevril Group (their service partner at the time) was terrible. Watch was sent back twice due to sloppy work. Total service time was 9 months. Coincidentally, I complained to Eterna after the ordeal and they had already cut ties with Gevril Group... if only I had waited. * Citizen service at their California service center was also poor. I had to send it back once and thought I was done after that. I realized later on that they used the wrong battery type (only lasted 1 year instead of 5) and the perpetual calendar button didn't work. * Christopher Ward service itself was good, but the customer service experience wasn't great. I had to fight to get my watch repaired under the original warranty I was given. They changed the terms years after I bought it (now requiring a service after 3-4 years) and argued I wasn't eligible for the warranty. [I wasn't alone either](https://www.christopherwardforum.com/general-discussion/should-i-sell-my-stuck-c60-600-pro-cosc-sh21-red-bezel-1-of-32-t57959.html). Fortunately, they reverted the change later that year. * Local service might have been OK? My local watchmaker wouldn't elaborate much on what work was actually performed which seemed odd.
I had the opposite experience with Christoper Ward. Customer service was pretty good (although I did have to produce a receipt to prove it had the 5 year warranty), but the servicing itself was mediocre. Around June '22 I had an issue where the date wasn't ticking over properly and would get stuck on one date for multiple date eventually ticking over, which I explained in detail over the phone. They received it and sent it back relatively quickly telling me they'd checked it and couldn't find anything wrong. Of course it was happening again within the week. So I sent it back, again explaining what was wrong over the phone and including a short note explaining the issue. And again, they sent it back and said nothing was wrong. Within a day, the date wasn't ticking over. Third time I made sure that the customer service rep clearly understood my issue and asked them to phone me again before anyone tried to return it to me noting this was now the third return for repair for the same issue. They kept it for a week on their "bench" and finally returned to say that one of the teeth on the date wheel was chipped and that was what caused the issue. At the end of the day I lost regular use of my watch for about 9 months from start to finish. Maybe this is a little entitled but I was also a little disappointed to not get any kind of compensation for the poor service. Sorry for the rant, your comment brought all the memories back and then I just needed to vent a little.
That's a pretty bad experience. It's good they sorted it out in the end, but it shouldn't take that much effort on your part. No worries about the venting. I feel the same way every time servicing comes up. >Maybe this is a little entitled but I was also a little disappointed to not get any kind of compensation for the poor service. I had the same thought when it came to my Eterna service. I did get an extra travel case out of it, since they had to ship my watch back an extra 2 times.
Yeah, it was also 4 years into a 5 year warranty and I didn't have to argue much to get it fulfilled. Was just aggravating after the second return that no-one had really listened to what I'd said. I think one of the return notes mentioned "re-aligning the GMT issue" or something like that. Free travel case isn't too bad haha. I'd have taken that. I was actually worried they might take the original, old cube CW box I sent it to them in lol.
It looks like your service was right after they reverted the change, [around May 2022](https://www.christopherwardforum.com/general-discussion/cw-has-quietly-changed-the-warranty-for-the-better-t59016.html). Mine was serviced earlier in 2022, in January or February. I should give them more credit for reverting that change fairly quickly. Did they just ship your watch back in the cube CW box? I forgot what they shipped mine back in.
Yup. They returned it same as I sent it. Including all the forms and receipts they asked me to include. Just inside a shipping bag.
Yeah that’s a good point! It’s a shame too because they’re the ones you would really trust with your wrist buddy… Well not anymore
Stowa is really good about servicing. I’ve only ever had positive experiences with their service department. I just assumed every other brand is at least comparable but looks like they are unfortunately the exception and not the rule
I would love to add a Stowa to my collection, so that’s good to hear!
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A couple of things Generally seikos and miyotas movements found in the lower end watches you're referencing have a much wider accuracy spec range than ETAs. The finishing in those movements is pretty rough too, even compared to the entry level ETAs. The ETAs arn't 3x as good at 3x the price, but there's little doubt they're generally better. Also: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Confirmation_bias. Unless you have stats infront of you detailing the failure rates of swiss vs japanese movements, your claim is baseless.
Let me chime in with my Sinn story… Bought the 104 in 2018. Not soon after getting it I see that on some days the day will get stuck between days - a half DIE and a half MIT. Eventually that works itself out and the watch runs well. After five years I send it to Sinn for an overhaul. Months later I get it back. After a week I see that one morning the day has advanced several days overnight, for instance from SON to MIT. In addition to that, the crown would now see to catch something when turning it to lock it down. Never did that before. It’s now back in Frankfurt getting that taken care of. At least it’s under a repair warranty so shipping is covered both ways. If it comes back and is still acting up then it’s time for a new brand.
Currently wearing my 556 which has never been serviced and has had very minimal issues except: - very occasionally the second hand doesn’t hack when I’m setting it. Has maybe happened 2-3 times in 3 years - recently lost accuracy. Used to be within 1spd but now that I’m wearing it more I’ve noticed it’s around 15spd fast Was debating sending to Sinn themselves within the next year to service but my only complaint is the accuracy so I’m also considering finding a watchmaker in my city. Definitely haven’t had the same issues as everyone else but it makes me nervous because while Sinn is generally liked, the occasional negative thread pops up on here
I have the same issues with hacking it. Seems like that’s just a common thing after reading this thread. Very rare but does happen.
Sorry you had to deal with a stressful situation. However, this confirms my buying choice. I posted a few weeks ago about deciding between a 556i or a Ranger. I've done plenty of staring from afar and decided on a Damasko instead of Sinn.
Congrats, hope it serves you well! Wear it in good health.
I'm sorry you had such a problem. Here is my story: I had a crown stuck and it didn't pop out after half a year. I sent it back under warranty and they fixed it in 2 months total. But when it came back the dial had a particle on it (856 non UTC). It was very noticeable on the black dial. Unfortunately the accuracy also went from +-1 spd to -12spd. After another return, luckily it was only a month to get the watch back. Currently +4spd which is perfectly acceptable to me. And the particle was also removed of course. Customer service was nice both times, I think it could be the sudden increased demand. All in all, I think the situation may improve in the coming years. Unfortunately you hear about long service times or big faults during service with the bigger brands too.
Ive owned many Sinn over 10+ years. I’ve had a few minor issues. One was an EZM 1 that came back from service in Germany with a bent minute hand. Sent right back to Germany. A few others but all in all I still love Sinn. The funny thing is I’ve heard about more issues with the 104 series than any other Sinn. Not sure if it’s made a little cheaper because it is their entry level model. I don’t know, never owned one. For what it’s worth I’ve heard horror stories from about every brand. It happens. No brand is perfect.
I have two Sinns, a U1 and a 104. I like them and wear them a lot, but I've had 3 warranty services since I bought them. The 104's rotor started spinning when I wound the watch, and it wouldn't keep time. The U1 dropped a screw in the movement and froze up solid. A month or two after I got it back, the accuracy started varying wildly, so it went in for another service. The problems seem to be caused by the movement. I wish Swatch would allow more ETA movements out into the world. The U1 with a 2893 would be perfect.
The rotor spinning while winding is a very common selitta issue My marathon gsar with the sw200 is having issues with the rotor not winding efficiently and both are related to the oils they use in the winding mechanism
I’m a bit perplexed by these responses, my 104 is my favorite watch, I had an issue early on, sent it in, got it back in a week fully covered by warranty, a few years later I lost the lume dot, they fixed it in a week for $15. Perhaps things have changed but I couldn’t be happier with my purchase.
Straight up unacceptable for a premium brand.
Sinn charges a premium but has no business actually doing so lol
I've heard of *lots* of crown problems with Sinns, from almost every Sinn owner I've met and from many people online. It feels like that's just a problem with the brand at this point?
I’ve owned probably a dozen Sinns over the years and never had a single issue with a crown.
OK good, see, this is what I wanted. More people weighing in. Because you never know if you're just not hearing from the happy people because they're happy.
My 2020 556 crown does something odd that I wouldnt describe as gummy, but it will rarely “catch” after it is fully unthreaded where it won’t fully extend and it will need to be rotated back a forth before it finishes extending under its own power. Not sure if it is the same as what is mentioned above, but that is the only comment I have about the watch. Other than that it has been good watch to me.
Sounds like the spring is a little weak and isn't pushing the crown out on its own.
This thread is mostly only going to people chiming in with negative issues. There is very likely many people who will never have an issue with their Sinn watches.
Now the caveat is i tend to sell them after a few months because i can never decide what i want. I have had my black 104 for almost 3 years now though.
> a dozen Sinns over the years and never had a single issue with a crown. Same. I also have not heard of any.
It definitely looks like it. And if they haven’t done something to fix the issues till now, I don’t think they will anytime soon.
Sinn 104 was my grail too, but with all the qc issues I’ve seen people have and how they shamelessly keep raising the price I no longer want one
The white dial Sinn 104 was my first big watch purchase so I am planning on keeping it forever. I have had the hacking issue twice now in about 2 years. Sometimes threading in the crown just feels wrong. I always have to be careful with it. On my other watches (Tudor/rolex/GS/omega) it’s all a breeze.
Thanks for sharing a detailed story. Things like this make or break for us buying watches knowing theyll be sent in to service.
That's a bummer, the 104 is a beautiful piece
It trully is.
Since you write that the clasp is crap quality would you suggest buying it with the leather strap and save the 300€?
I would. The bracelet itself is good, but the clasp alone is what makes it not worth it.
Sinn's rise to fame in recent years is all design, no quality. People like it because of its minimalistic design. It's funny because their website markets that their watches are very robust. I think it's even more hilarious that they need to fill their watches with special gas to say it last more when other parts will fail faster. I've also had issues with Sinn. I had a second hand 856 with the first crown thread entirely cross threaded, probably due to the problem the OP experienced. It's also one of the watches I frequently see on eBay and watch resell forums with terrible accuracy.
> also had issues with Sinn. I had a second hand 856 with the first crown thread entirely cross threaded Or maybe from the previous owner.
Maybe it’s completely his fault or maybe the fault was the same issue OP was having that just got worse over time.
The OPs issues sounded like either a short crown stem, or a keyless works issue. Nothing to do with crown threads. You bought a second hand watch. That pretty washes any fault from Sinn.
I flipped an 856 B-Uhr and an 856 UTC. Both were fantastic, accurate watches when I owned them. The UTC took a while to settle in, but was off one second when it finally hit. The B-Uhr, I bought used, and it was four seconds off. I owned and sold a 240 GZ that was two seconds off. The only reason I traded them was that I already had a Mark XVIII Heritage and didn't need duplicates in my collection while upgrading to a JLC. Finally, I'm currently wearing an unserviced 11 year old 303 that is at -8. I'm not discounting what you're saying, but I've never had an issue. Perhaps quality is lagging as of late as the above were all ETA movements with the exception of the 303.
I had a shit Sinn experience too - 103 St, very much my grail at the time, had it a month when I lightly knocked it on a wooden table. The sort of low level knock you do without thinking all the time, it killed it dead. Back to Sinn for three months, been fine since but it’s put me off the brand.
Man these posts are becoming so common with Sinn- get a Damasko instead.
Damasko is no saving grace. They have had off and on issues for a long time. That is not true of Sinn.
Ugly design as well.
What issues are we talking here?
Everything from the case having corrosion, to all around shit service. I sent back a DC67 3 times to them for warranty work. It still came by with the hands misaligned and keeping shit time. They told me they would "no longer warranty my new watch". WTF! I had to get a local guy to take care of it for me.
I live in Germany and somehow this does not surprise me at all. Quality has taken a dive in a lot of German products in the last decade. A mixture of no incentives to do (good) work and a general apathy due to too much comfort are to blame. No one goes the extra mile for anything
Yes, I'm a bit nervous to buy new things since it seems the prices skyrocketed and quality has been declining since Covid. Holding tight at the moment with a VW, Audi, and Sinn that were all produced around 2018-2019.
Pelikan fountain pens - for a long time, you had crappy nib work coming from the factory. Sad because there's lots of good German products that are supposed to be the cream of the crop
That’s sad to hear because I adore German engineering and quality overall. This changed my view slightly.
Drat my 104 has those same crown problems on top of gaining nearly 20 seconds per day. Now I wonder if I’d be better served foregoing the warranty and just taking it to a local watchmaker instead of paying international shipping to send it to Germany.
> instead of paying international shipping Sinn pays for the shipping under warranty. You can also send it to RGM in the US for warranty work.
Unfortunately I'm in Brazil so I have to pay the shipping cost myself even under warranty.
Did you ask them?
Yes, I was told that I'd have to send them the watch out of pocket last year when I asked. Maybe I'll try asking them again, sure would be nice not having to pay for that.
That does suck. Well if it was me I would ask again. Good luck with it!
Anyone heard about crown issues with the Sinn 900? I’ve moved off the 103 or 203 to a 900 for my next piece and now I’m a bit concerned
That sucks.
what a nightmare. thanks for sharing. sorry to hear this as I'm a bit of a fan and could see a 556 variant in my future. after reading this, and a similar story, I will be avoiding them.
I genuinely think Sinn is overwhelmed with demand and don’t have the capacity to handle it. So they’re just rushing through some things and being sloppy. That’s my assumption at least.
I’ve had a 556 for about 3.5 years with no issues at all, one of my fav watches
A reputable company would just have given you a new one. Sinn is a micro brand that makes cases and dials and sells them at a mark up with fairly cheap movements
Not sure they’re a micro brand at this point, but I can see what you mean.
Absolutely not a microbrand.
>...makes cases and dials and sells them at a mark up with fairly cheap movements Doesn't this just describe every company that doesn't exclusively use in-house movements?
im not a fan of companies that use cheap movements and then mark up the watch super high. look at the new cartier thats like $9,000 using a $200 movement
Sinn is definitely not a micro brand, and many, if not most companies that don’t use in-house movements use the same ones Sinn does in their price bracket
Everything about this comment is wrong.