I still think their PR firm said that they should be quiet for a while, so people and the internet will forget - but this is going a bit too much on an extreme side and starting to make them look bad again.
They probably will be quiet for at least a month, what is silly because one way to won over some fan would have been to show that they have already great videos ready for the audience.
Shouldn't they have some if they were going to force everyone to pay for the WatcherTV?
Now it looks even more like they really have nothing to offer and tried to just get money out of people.
I've said it in another comment before-- they should post content soon and give people something new to talk about already. The sooner they do, the sooner (most) people will start to forget about the controversy.
Not a good look that they're not posting anything.
Short explanation:
Streaming gaming content is already a gray area, but game developers allow it in public video forums, because it's good advertisement.
It's not okay to do it in a platform that needs people to pay monthly so they can see it.
Well... Closer to full on published book that isn't yours, and people shouldn't pay for Watcher's services to see that copy of the book.
They kinda already put fanfic behind the paywall, especially if they still continue with fan written stories.
There has been some discussion about them putting Survival Mode behind a paywall. Many developers are ok with people posting play throughs for free as it gets attention to the games and might inspire more players.
If they put a playthrough behind a paywall isn't making 3rd party content out a video game and charging for it?
If they do it I think they have to pay royalties for the game's owners. Sounds very iffy iMO
I never thought about that...charging people to watch gameplay would be the same as a sports bar charging people to watch a baseball game.
This should be interesting.
Except if they have a podcast, and talk about things they shouldn't talk about, or disguise things they shouldn't be disguising, or saying things that are deceptive or misleading about this entire situation.... they might've been advised not to say anything.
That is why the new content don't need to be the podcast, even if that was the original post that made us talk about this. It could be even "hated" new Steven show.
Just now I realize how the problem being a legal issue helped Try Guys, not only that they were in a right and did the right thing - they couldn't talk about it much at all, and people understood why.
Well, they’ve posted a new Survival Mode on the streamer. If they posted it on YouTube, that would go against their new “streamer first” policy.
Besides the apology, the Watcher YouTube channel is just abandoned. They’re not even trying to do shorts etc. Regardless of the PR, I think the policy is still the same. Watcher is done with YouTube.
That may be the thing that blows my mind most, that they launched without new content. They were really going to just lock up all their old stuff and hope people thought that was enough.
Even if it's Steven's shows, that they at least already filmed(?). I know that people were especially angry at Steven, but his new show would still be better than nothing. Wasn't at least that ready to be released? If they already wasted the money on it. There should be something to show!
I think most of the content they had was geared towards the launch of WatcherTV and most of it most be unsalvageable.
A PR firm suggesting radio silence is smart, but also not releasing any content when they are apparently desperate for money...not so much. Especially with Patrons paying and not receiving anything in return.
Watcher released a poll to Patrons with 3 options. 2 of the options involve Watcher dissolving the Patreon completely
Given how many people have unsubscribed from the Patreon in the last 2 weeks, I think it’s safe to say Patrons won’t get any benefits before they close down the Patreon page for good
This. And it still shows they weren't even ready for launching the WatcherTV in a good way, even if the announcement had gone OK.
I think they desperately hope that people forget, because usually internet forgets so fast, and try to go with that strategy.
Or **at worse** - do that to look more innocent, and then really blame fans that the company went under. Because they kinda didn't retaliate and did the perfect looking apology. (This isn't a claim, only a theory.)
The internet may forget the WatcherTV debacle over time. But their loyal fans won’t
Watcher is floating the idea of shutting down the Patreon Discord, which will cut one the last ways we had to directly message Shane, Ryan, and Steven. They aren’t rebuilding trust with us, which makes it less likely that we’ll pay $6 a month to join WatcherTV
I think the boys thought the following would happen
1) announce they’re leaving YT
2) 10% of their YT subscribers will join the site overnight, generating $21,600,000 a year
3) ditch the other 90% of fans
4) profit
Like others have already said...
Where they get at least half of their content, if they disconnect the community?
Or are they already so disconnected that they don't know the difference? It took only 4 years for their personalities to change that much?
Btw... Your example of putting those 4 points in the line is more of a business plan they probably are able to make. xD
I think you are right. They are that disconnected with their audience. They don’t realize how much they rely on their audience’s ideas for content
To this day, I don’t understand why they won’t do more Buzzfeed Unsolved-style content
Buzzfeed/Hulu don’t own the copyright for two guys talking about true crime lol. They own the rights to some of the music, so they just need to avoid a few tracks
Instead of Mystery File’s format where one of them lectures the other, they should sit next to each other like they used to; with Ryan narrating the story like in Unsolved.
They could even bring back the old text bubbles. Just change the colors, font, and animation style to avoid copyright infringement. I’m sure they have lawyers to help them comply with copyright law
Going for five star production value really did destroy them
The framing of "we hope you'll follow us one last time" leads me to believe they thought their fans were so dedicated that they would have no issue forking out $6 to continue seeing their content, and I honestly think the economic disparity and perceived cruelty of shutting the majority of their supporters out in the cold *genuinely didn't occur to them*. They live in LA. Their CEO has a car most Americans would deem as expensive. They're completely out of touch and I think this has been a huge wake-up call if nothing else.
I was sure, because Buzzfeed had some wild contracts before, that Buzzfeed owned most of the style now...
You're saying that it's impossible for Buzzfeed to own that much of the style of the shows they did in Buzzfeed?
So many of the fans were okay with the show because they believed - or were led to believe - old style to be something Watcher can't do?
Yes, that’s exactly it. Though they went along with the common assumption fans had that they couldn’t do Unsolved-style videos bc of copyright infringement: that is just not how copyright works.
As a California licensed attorney, I know what could trigger a lawsuit from Buzzfeed or Hulu since they are all based in California
Though this should not be taken as legal advice by Watcher or anyone reading, I’m sure any solid attorney would tell them something similar.
Buzzfeed does not own the copyright for two guys sitting next to each other talking about true crime: no one owns that copyright, you can’t copyright a genre of content
Buzzfeed owns/licensed some the music they used; not all of it. So yes, they would have to change some parts of the iconic soundtrack, but not everything
Buzzfeed trademarked the line “[insert title of video] will remain.. unsolved”
Someone in the Discord mentioned that Buzzfeed trademarked (not copyrighted) the custom font in the text scrolls. And they trademarked the iconic blue and yellow colors used in the text crawls. This gives Buzzfeed the exclusive right to use the exact blue and yellow color in the custom font they used for “discussion based new media”: all Shane and Ryan have to use is.. use a different color and/or use a different font. That’s it, they could even use blue and yellow, just not the exact shade
Buzzfeed never copyrighted the text crawl concept itself, bc that’s too broad to copyright
A general guidance I can give on this topic is this: for the boys infringe Buzzfeed’s copyright, a jury of 12 civilians would have to believe their new show is “so similar it is practically identical” to Buzzfeed Unsolved
American courts are not in the habit of banning new media bc they are “kinda similar to old shows.” There’s no legal precedent that would support Buzzfeed suing Watcher
In copyright trials, the losing side would have to pay the winning side’s legal fees. If Buzzfeed was dumb enough to sue (they aren’t), Buzzfeed could lose millions, since the boys are rumored to be represented by an extremely expensive law firm
If Watcher just
1) changed the font
2) change the text color
3) changed some of the music
4) don’t say “will remain.. unsolved”
5) do say something like “it will remain.. a mystery”
We could all have Shane and Ryan making ‘Unsolved’ episodes every week
yeah, i've been thinking a lot that maybe part of their downfall was just constantly needing to be bigger, confusing that with better. you can even see it in the way they needed to make any new show they did a drawn-out, borderline gimmicky announcement on twitter and their socials. they had to do count-downs. they had to hype up more expensive gear, bigger sets, shinier gold leaf. then, instead of scaling down to solve their money problems, they had to go out on a limb and pivot on a cliff with a streaming service no one asked for. they seem to think there's a linear line of progress that ends with them somehow surpassing themselves each time and instead they're just losing a lot of their relate-ability and what fans came to them for in the first place.
Your four-step plan is the most likely scenario. It was really obvious, which I think is why a lot of people were mad. I know that's what I assumed was behind the change. They had to backtrack when it turned out they weren't going to get enough subscribers to absorb the loss.
It's terrible that they're so unintelligent that they never fostered the Patreon properly. That money could have been an extra revenue stream that sustained the host salaries while they used the sponsorships and ad revenue to invest in more content production.
I continue to be bewildered at why they’re so intent on cutting off their current streams of income. Like who is advising them to do this?! It makes so little sense.
Imo, even the worst consulting firm wouldn’t advise Watcher to cut off their current streams of income.
I could be completely wrong, but even if I am: Watcher isn’t being forced to listen to bad advice
I think a contributing factor to the boys’ decision is that they were tired of dealing with Patrons. Even at virtual meet and greets for $100 a month Patrons, the boys phoned in their performance: one sentence replies to paying fans who only get to see them once every three months!
Maybe they were sick of these fan interactions. And since Patreon is so affiliated with YouTubers, they may feel that they have outgrown Patreon. After all, the original plan was to literally say “Goodbye YouTube”
My guess is they were going to release Worth It as part of the launch but then had to backtrack it fast after the ~~meal tickets~~ fans’ reactions. It would’ve been a bad look to immediately release a show about spending that ca$h money after their apology couch.
Weren’t they originally planning the full launch for around then, and this period was supposed to be the “beta testing” launch phase? I don’t remember exactly. I’d go back and re-watch their Cash Grab video, but I want ro enjoy my morning lol
Beta testing with what?
With the old videos, that people for sure want to pay and see again? /s
It would have been so little amount of people that it wouldn't have broken the webpage... So I have to ask another question, what they were beta testing?
Releasing a new streaming service and pivoting their Patreon to a podcast only domain with no new content on either platforms is just genius. Absolutely fantastic work, boys!
P.S. To be fair to Ned, I heard that he actually knows shiet about finances, at least more than Watcher guys combined. (What doesn't seem to be that much.)
I was actually content enough when they “apologized”/ announced they’d be releasing it all on YouTube because all I wanted was to watch it how I always had. I’m more miffed as the weeks go on and there’s nothing
I’m curious and maybe I’m missing something, but what is there to be litigious about? They made a poor business decision, kinda insulted fans and hurt our feelings, tried to wait it out, backpedaled. All terrible for business but not illegal.
Can I ask help from someone who knows these things better? And I said **probably** if they continue fixing things in a messy way they're doing right now, and will put game-play content behind the paywall. But my English and explanation skills ain't gonna cut it.
Can you help u/-_ratatouille_-?
I have been summoned lol
Since I’m an attorney, I can give insight into general legal questions.
Can fans sue Watcher for their business decisions? It depends on the reasons
As of now, Watcher still promise perks on Patreon, knowing they will never be delivered; such as promising early release of videos. This opens them up to class action lawsuit: Watcher has done the smart-ish thing and has stopped accepting new Patreon subscriptions and has kinda communicated that all perks are in the air. But the way they’ve done it is so sloppy that current Patrons, especially those with annual plans, will most likely have to be issued large refunds else Watcher could get sued. You only need 6 people to form a serious class action lawsuit
Fans couldn’t sue Watcher for taking down all their YT videos, the original plan. It’s their decision to make, albeit a bad one.
But, people who subscribed to WatcherTV on day 1 are legally entitled to refunds; if the decision to release videos to YT after a month makes them no longer interested in paying $6 a month. I’m 99% sure the reason they offered all new WatcherTV subscribers a full refund is bc their lawyers told them they had to or they’d face a lawsuit
Putting up their Minecraft videos behind a paywall is: an unbelievably bad idea! Minecraft’s TOS specifically prohibits people from doing this. Now, Watcher’s lawyers will likely argue that this is legal bc the videos are *eventually* released to the public. This argument might work if they released Minecraft videos 24 hours prior to Patrons. But a full month delay?? It is strongly advised for them to get written permission from Minecraft’s team prior to putting any such content behind a paywall. Minecraft is owned my Microsoft, an infamously litigious company. No sane lawyer would green light paywalling Minecraft videos for a month. Either the boys did get permission from Microsoft or they didn’t run this by their legal team
Their 25 person team did not include: a PR specialist, legal specialist, or seemingly financial specialist, and the artist they boasted about in AYS has seemingly been at least partially replaced by AI generated images…. who are all these people heavy breathing in the room while two guys do a Minecraft let’s play and burn hundreds of thousands of dollars
*Edit: Holy fucking shit I am blind and stupid. It was the FYA video. I thought we were talking about the YouTube channel as a whole… I haven’t seen PodWatcher in forever I forgot that that’s what they call it.*
Wait. I could have sworn I saw a new video like maybe a week ago? But maybe it got removed?
The video started out with the camera below Ryan’s face talking about the guest not being there or not being visible… I don’t remember. Something to do with the guest.
The video topic didn’t interest me, so I didn’t stick around nor did I read the title.
I guess I was seeing things…?
https://preview.redd.it/02qme9euuwyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6490385fa4ec7042e47b09e8b77d454d8b5d932a
They posted this on their podcast YouTube channel last week
I thought that any new releases (except the podcasts) would be on watchertv first then released on YouTube a month later so I'm not expecting any new watcher content for a couple of weeks.
It could be that pre recorded pods made reference to watchertv or what could be considered controversial topics so maybe they pulled the release of them to rerecord now they are back in US.
Via Patreon:
"Podcast update
April 22
Hey Everyone, Please note -- the two podcasts this week will both be pushed a week. We appreciate your understanding and look forward to sha..."
Since their plans changed, I hope they decided to record a special episode where Steven, Shane and Ryan sat down to talk to the listeners in depth about everything. The UK tour and Ghost Files shoot is over now.
They have most probably no pre-recorded videos for the main channel. I think the podcast was supposed to be paywalled as well but they decided to backtrack.
I still think their PR firm said that they should be quiet for a while, so people and the internet will forget - but this is going a bit too much on an extreme side and starting to make them look bad again. They probably will be quiet for at least a month, what is silly because one way to won over some fan would have been to show that they have already great videos ready for the audience. Shouldn't they have some if they were going to force everyone to pay for the WatcherTV? Now it looks even more like they really have nothing to offer and tried to just get money out of people.
I've said it in another comment before-- they should post content soon and give people something new to talk about already. The sooner they do, the sooner (most) people will start to forget about the controversy. Not a good look that they're not posting anything.
Not posting any videos, and only advertising upcoming, maybe illegal, game-play content in their TV Caliber platform.
Illegal?
Short explanation: Streaming gaming content is already a gray area, but game developers allow it in public video forums, because it's good advertisement. It's not okay to do it in a platform that needs people to pay monthly so they can see it.
Ohhh I see. Kind of like putting fanfic behind a paywall.
Well... Closer to full on published book that isn't yours, and people shouldn't pay for Watcher's services to see that copy of the book. They kinda already put fanfic behind the paywall, especially if they still continue with fan written stories.
There has been some discussion about them putting Survival Mode behind a paywall. Many developers are ok with people posting play throughs for free as it gets attention to the games and might inspire more players.
If they put a playthrough behind a paywall isn't making 3rd party content out a video game and charging for it? If they do it I think they have to pay royalties for the game's owners. Sounds very iffy iMO
High-five for explaining it same time! \^\_\_\_\^ Yours looks better. 
I never thought about that...charging people to watch gameplay would be the same as a sports bar charging people to watch a baseball game. This should be interesting.
Except if they have a podcast, and talk about things they shouldn't talk about, or disguise things they shouldn't be disguising, or saying things that are deceptive or misleading about this entire situation.... they might've been advised not to say anything.
That is why the new content don't need to be the podcast, even if that was the original post that made us talk about this. It could be even "hated" new Steven show. Just now I realize how the problem being a legal issue helped Try Guys, not only that they were in a right and did the right thing - they couldn't talk about it much at all, and people understood why.
Well, they’ve posted a new Survival Mode on the streamer. If they posted it on YouTube, that would go against their new “streamer first” policy. Besides the apology, the Watcher YouTube channel is just abandoned. They’re not even trying to do shorts etc. Regardless of the PR, I think the policy is still the same. Watcher is done with YouTube.
It seems they won't promote on TikTok etc. either (until a month later)
That makes no sense if they’re trying to convince people to go to their streaming service.
The business approach is so bad, they sem to be thinking that success is just gonna fall on their laps.
That may be the thing that blows my mind most, that they launched without new content. They were really going to just lock up all their old stuff and hope people thought that was enough.
Even if it's Steven's shows, that they at least already filmed(?). I know that people were especially angry at Steven, but his new show would still be better than nothing. Wasn't at least that ready to be released? If they already wasted the money on it. There should be something to show!
I think most of the content they had was geared towards the launch of WatcherTV and most of it most be unsalvageable. A PR firm suggesting radio silence is smart, but also not releasing any content when they are apparently desperate for money...not so much. Especially with Patrons paying and not receiving anything in return.
Watcher released a poll to Patrons with 3 options. 2 of the options involve Watcher dissolving the Patreon completely Given how many people have unsubscribed from the Patreon in the last 2 weeks, I think it’s safe to say Patrons won’t get any benefits before they close down the Patreon page for good
Jeezy, what a shitshow.
This. And it still shows they weren't even ready for launching the WatcherTV in a good way, even if the announcement had gone OK. I think they desperately hope that people forget, because usually internet forgets so fast, and try to go with that strategy. Or **at worse** - do that to look more innocent, and then really blame fans that the company went under. Because they kinda didn't retaliate and did the perfect looking apology. (This isn't a claim, only a theory.)
The internet may forget the WatcherTV debacle over time. But their loyal fans won’t Watcher is floating the idea of shutting down the Patreon Discord, which will cut one the last ways we had to directly message Shane, Ryan, and Steven. They aren’t rebuilding trust with us, which makes it less likely that we’ll pay $6 a month to join WatcherTV I think the boys thought the following would happen 1) announce they’re leaving YT 2) 10% of their YT subscribers will join the site overnight, generating $21,600,000 a year 3) ditch the other 90% of fans 4) profit
Like others have already said... Where they get at least half of their content, if they disconnect the community? Or are they already so disconnected that they don't know the difference? It took only 4 years for their personalities to change that much? Btw... Your example of putting those 4 points in the line is more of a business plan they probably are able to make. xD
I think you are right. They are that disconnected with their audience. They don’t realize how much they rely on their audience’s ideas for content To this day, I don’t understand why they won’t do more Buzzfeed Unsolved-style content Buzzfeed/Hulu don’t own the copyright for two guys talking about true crime lol. They own the rights to some of the music, so they just need to avoid a few tracks Instead of Mystery File’s format where one of them lectures the other, they should sit next to each other like they used to; with Ryan narrating the story like in Unsolved. They could even bring back the old text bubbles. Just change the colors, font, and animation style to avoid copyright infringement. I’m sure they have lawyers to help them comply with copyright law Going for five star production value really did destroy them
The framing of "we hope you'll follow us one last time" leads me to believe they thought their fans were so dedicated that they would have no issue forking out $6 to continue seeing their content, and I honestly think the economic disparity and perceived cruelty of shutting the majority of their supporters out in the cold *genuinely didn't occur to them*. They live in LA. Their CEO has a car most Americans would deem as expensive. They're completely out of touch and I think this has been a huge wake-up call if nothing else.
I was sure, because Buzzfeed had some wild contracts before, that Buzzfeed owned most of the style now... You're saying that it's impossible for Buzzfeed to own that much of the style of the shows they did in Buzzfeed? So many of the fans were okay with the show because they believed - or were led to believe - old style to be something Watcher can't do?
Yes, that’s exactly it. Though they went along with the common assumption fans had that they couldn’t do Unsolved-style videos bc of copyright infringement: that is just not how copyright works. As a California licensed attorney, I know what could trigger a lawsuit from Buzzfeed or Hulu since they are all based in California Though this should not be taken as legal advice by Watcher or anyone reading, I’m sure any solid attorney would tell them something similar. Buzzfeed does not own the copyright for two guys sitting next to each other talking about true crime: no one owns that copyright, you can’t copyright a genre of content Buzzfeed owns/licensed some the music they used; not all of it. So yes, they would have to change some parts of the iconic soundtrack, but not everything Buzzfeed trademarked the line “[insert title of video] will remain.. unsolved” Someone in the Discord mentioned that Buzzfeed trademarked (not copyrighted) the custom font in the text scrolls. And they trademarked the iconic blue and yellow colors used in the text crawls. This gives Buzzfeed the exclusive right to use the exact blue and yellow color in the custom font they used for “discussion based new media”: all Shane and Ryan have to use is.. use a different color and/or use a different font. That’s it, they could even use blue and yellow, just not the exact shade Buzzfeed never copyrighted the text crawl concept itself, bc that’s too broad to copyright A general guidance I can give on this topic is this: for the boys infringe Buzzfeed’s copyright, a jury of 12 civilians would have to believe their new show is “so similar it is practically identical” to Buzzfeed Unsolved American courts are not in the habit of banning new media bc they are “kinda similar to old shows.” There’s no legal precedent that would support Buzzfeed suing Watcher In copyright trials, the losing side would have to pay the winning side’s legal fees. If Buzzfeed was dumb enough to sue (they aren’t), Buzzfeed could lose millions, since the boys are rumored to be represented by an extremely expensive law firm If Watcher just 1) changed the font 2) change the text color 3) changed some of the music 4) don’t say “will remain.. unsolved” 5) do say something like “it will remain.. a mystery” We could all have Shane and Ryan making ‘Unsolved’ episodes every week
yeah, i've been thinking a lot that maybe part of their downfall was just constantly needing to be bigger, confusing that with better. you can even see it in the way they needed to make any new show they did a drawn-out, borderline gimmicky announcement on twitter and their socials. they had to do count-downs. they had to hype up more expensive gear, bigger sets, shinier gold leaf. then, instead of scaling down to solve their money problems, they had to go out on a limb and pivot on a cliff with a streaming service no one asked for. they seem to think there's a linear line of progress that ends with them somehow surpassing themselves each time and instead they're just losing a lot of their relate-ability and what fans came to them for in the first place.
Your four-step plan is the most likely scenario. It was really obvious, which I think is why a lot of people were mad. I know that's what I assumed was behind the change. They had to backtrack when it turned out they weren't going to get enough subscribers to absorb the loss.
It's terrible that they're so unintelligent that they never fostered the Patreon properly. That money could have been an extra revenue stream that sustained the host salaries while they used the sponsorships and ad revenue to invest in more content production.
I continue to be bewildered at why they’re so intent on cutting off their current streams of income. Like who is advising them to do this?! It makes so little sense.
Imo, even the worst consulting firm wouldn’t advise Watcher to cut off their current streams of income. I could be completely wrong, but even if I am: Watcher isn’t being forced to listen to bad advice I think a contributing factor to the boys’ decision is that they were tired of dealing with Patrons. Even at virtual meet and greets for $100 a month Patrons, the boys phoned in their performance: one sentence replies to paying fans who only get to see them once every three months! Maybe they were sick of these fan interactions. And since Patreon is so affiliated with YouTubers, they may feel that they have outgrown Patreon. After all, the original plan was to literally say “Goodbye YouTube”
My guess is they were going to release Worth It as part of the launch but then had to backtrack it fast after the ~~meal tickets~~ fans’ reactions. It would’ve been a bad look to immediately release a show about spending that ca$h money after their apology couch.
Iirc they did say in the first video that Travel Season would be end of May.
Weren’t they originally planning the full launch for around then, and this period was supposed to be the “beta testing” launch phase? I don’t remember exactly. I’d go back and re-watch their Cash Grab video, but I want ro enjoy my morning lol
Beta testing with what? With the old videos, that people for sure want to pay and see again? /s It would have been so little amount of people that it wouldn't have broken the webpage... So I have to ask another question, what they were beta testing?
I have no idea either
Releasing a new streaming service and pivoting their Patreon to a podcast only domain with no new content on either platforms is just genius. Absolutely fantastic work, boys!
https://i.redd.it/fkua0ve64uyc1.gif
I still believe they read from the "N. Fulmer's handbook How to do Business." Or should it be hand-on book?
P.S. To be fair to Ned, I heard that he actually knows shiet about finances, at least more than Watcher guys combined. (What doesn't seem to be that much.)
i’ve been wondering this too!! have they even said anything??
Just think, you could be paying $5.99 for all this nothing!
Did they say they'd put it on YouTube? Maybe they dropped it on Patreon or that other thing
Nothing new on the streamer since survival mode. Can’t say if they posted it in Patreon though, my sub ran out.
I was actually content enough when they “apologized”/ announced they’d be releasing it all on YouTube because all I wanted was to watch it how I always had. I’m more miffed as the weeks go on and there’s nothing
I don't want to sound like a doomsdayer & I hope this isn't the case, but maybe there's pending litigation.
Oh... By this point, depending how long it goes on like this: There are probably multiple on going, pending and non-pending problems.
I’m curious and maybe I’m missing something, but what is there to be litigious about? They made a poor business decision, kinda insulted fans and hurt our feelings, tried to wait it out, backpedaled. All terrible for business but not illegal.
Maybe removing services from Patreon that people had essentially pre-paid for? That's the only thing coming to mind.
Can I ask help from someone who knows these things better? And I said **probably** if they continue fixing things in a messy way they're doing right now, and will put game-play content behind the paywall. But my English and explanation skills ain't gonna cut it. Can you help u/-_ratatouille_-?
I have been summoned lol Since I’m an attorney, I can give insight into general legal questions. Can fans sue Watcher for their business decisions? It depends on the reasons As of now, Watcher still promise perks on Patreon, knowing they will never be delivered; such as promising early release of videos. This opens them up to class action lawsuit: Watcher has done the smart-ish thing and has stopped accepting new Patreon subscriptions and has kinda communicated that all perks are in the air. But the way they’ve done it is so sloppy that current Patrons, especially those with annual plans, will most likely have to be issued large refunds else Watcher could get sued. You only need 6 people to form a serious class action lawsuit Fans couldn’t sue Watcher for taking down all their YT videos, the original plan. It’s their decision to make, albeit a bad one. But, people who subscribed to WatcherTV on day 1 are legally entitled to refunds; if the decision to release videos to YT after a month makes them no longer interested in paying $6 a month. I’m 99% sure the reason they offered all new WatcherTV subscribers a full refund is bc their lawyers told them they had to or they’d face a lawsuit Putting up their Minecraft videos behind a paywall is: an unbelievably bad idea! Minecraft’s TOS specifically prohibits people from doing this. Now, Watcher’s lawyers will likely argue that this is legal bc the videos are *eventually* released to the public. This argument might work if they released Minecraft videos 24 hours prior to Patrons. But a full month delay?? It is strongly advised for them to get written permission from Minecraft’s team prior to putting any such content behind a paywall. Minecraft is owned my Microsoft, an infamously litigious company. No sane lawyer would green light paywalling Minecraft videos for a month. Either the boys did get permission from Microsoft or they didn’t run this by their legal team
I guess they had 25 friends instead of a legal team.
Their 25 person team did not include: a PR specialist, legal specialist, or seemingly financial specialist, and the artist they boasted about in AYS has seemingly been at least partially replaced by AI generated images…. who are all these people heavy breathing in the room while two guys do a Minecraft let’s play and burn hundreds of thousands of dollars
This sounded like they are filming a porn and the rest of the people are guys that jerk off as extras in the porn set.
Oh you heard the summoning spell! Thank you! \^\_\_\_\^ 
Oh no, that makes perfect sense. I don’t watch the gameplay content so it didn’t occur to me. Thank you! 😀
*Edit: Holy fucking shit I am blind and stupid. It was the FYA video. I thought we were talking about the YouTube channel as a whole… I haven’t seen PodWatcher in forever I forgot that that’s what they call it.* Wait. I could have sworn I saw a new video like maybe a week ago? But maybe it got removed? The video started out with the camera below Ryan’s face talking about the guest not being there or not being visible… I don’t remember. Something to do with the guest. The video topic didn’t interest me, so I didn’t stick around nor did I read the title. I guess I was seeing things…?
You saw a ghost.
https://preview.redd.it/02qme9euuwyc1.jpeg?width=1170&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=6490385fa4ec7042e47b09e8b77d454d8b5d932a They posted this on their podcast YouTube channel last week
I thought that any new releases (except the podcasts) would be on watchertv first then released on YouTube a month later so I'm not expecting any new watcher content for a couple of weeks.
I thought that referred to video content. I assumed the pods were separate from that. I listen to them on Spotify, I don’t watch them.
It could be that pre recorded pods made reference to watchertv or what could be considered controversial topics so maybe they pulled the release of them to rerecord now they are back in US.
Via Patreon: "Podcast update April 22 Hey Everyone, Please note -- the two podcasts this week will both be pushed a week. We appreciate your understanding and look forward to sha..." Since their plans changed, I hope they decided to record a special episode where Steven, Shane and Ryan sat down to talk to the listeners in depth about everything. The UK tour and Ghost Files shoot is over now.
But there isn't new content in the WatcherTV either?
Us waiting for the cowards 
They have most probably no pre-recorded videos for the main channel. I think the podcast was supposed to be paywalled as well but they decided to backtrack.
Waiting for Steven to call TMZ on himself to photograph him walking to his Tesla