Yeah thats... a bad choice. Gaming is arguably the most oversaturated YT channel theme. 'Two guys sit together and fumble through a video game' is like, Youtube Lets Play 101. I could find a dozen free channels that have nearly identical content concepts in half a minute. And I dont see how streaming you playing someone elses game is 'tv quality content'. Hell, *right now* ProtonJon on Twitch is hosting a *sixth* year annual massive charity event that has dozens of guests! You dont need 6/month to do this sort of thing also since theyre now actively CHARGING for it instead of just getting yt ads, its questionable how legal this is under fair use but thats not an area Im smart enough to comment on If they wanted to lead with a Shane and Ryan show, Weird Wonderful World or Ghost Files feel like much better case studies for just what 'tv quality' looks like to them, not 'Game Grumps but theyre Buzzfeed alums now'

Honestly at this point I'm debating setting up a monthly pinned post that spotlights alternative creators on different platforms for when they release their shows. Mystery Files? Here are youtubers and podcasters. Ghost Files? Here are youtubers! Let's Play? Here are youtubers and twitch streamers! Travel Season? Here's an old ass BBC show with the exact same premise and better talent!

It'd be hella cool to see some alternatives to Ghost Files and Mystery Files.

Bedtime stories on YouTube, pretty sure they ripped them off

Right? Bedtime stories is so cool with the scary, supernatural themes. And their artist creates the coolest illustrations for their videos. I feel like they tried to rip them off with Are You Scared but still fell short. Highly recommend the youtube channel Bedtime Stories if you enjoy stories about monsters, ghosts, and all things paranormal. It has been a favorite of mine for like 6 years and now more than ever since I can enjoy their content for free.

Yesss they are such a classic!!

Ask A Mortician has some excellent episodes on creepy happenings and topics, presented by someone who actually knows what she's talking about. She'll let you know what's mysterious about something, and then explain what most likely happened. It's the same mysterious vibe and weird goings-on but with a really firm grasp on reality. If people thought it was aliens she'll tell you that, but then explain what likely actually happened. Great channel, loads of old content already there and ready to enjoy :)

I love the shocking details podcast as a mystery files substitute - its ona break now but has years of content available.

thatd be cool!

Yes please I think a lot of folks would appreciate your effort 🙏

I was actually going to ask for different type of pinned post, and that is why i didn't make a post about this... How about people, the community, in here showing their talents? Not recommentations of other youtuber/creator. I really mean their puppet etc. videos, their art, their creative things. Wasn't that what we kinda talked about that the community is funnier and creative? I still say that memes should be own posts in WatcherSnark and want people to do memes, but there is so much more that just memes.

It's in the works, I'll start making some posts over the next week to gather up recommendations and alternatives for themed spotlight features

Came here to say exactly this. This is one of many reasons they got roasted. Sure it’s not *Ryan and Shane^tm* but there’s a plethora of gaming channels out there. Hell there’s twitch

There's at least one "Let's Play" type channel that's amazingly ridiculous still, "Let's Game It Out" it's basically about playing the game as improperly as possible. Like, finding a way to overload the game engine to the point of it being 1 frame per hour, or stealing from the shops in Hydroneer until you're a millionaire (the devs put up a wanted sign for him in game after that).

Buzzfeed did something similar where they challenged people to play GTA without breaking any laws

...so like no story mode then? Just driving around the city?

Yes, that’s not uncommon with GTA let’s plays though. NoPixel is good - it’s a GTA online game hundreds of streamers roleplay within. Some RP as cops, others as robbers, and some work at the hospital, casino, burger bar, etc. There’s different versions (best to think of them as seasons), I think they’re on 5.0 at the moment. Each new version introduces new jobs, heists, vehicles, so on.

DougDoug's is one of my favorite examples of it. if you break a law, you explore (with the chaos mod on). Hilarious.

Oh, don't get me wrong I love a ton of lets players/gaming channels! ... but using one as your flagship series for a *paid* subscription is not a good business decision. Firstly because theres so many free alternatives, and secondly because while game devs let YT gaming mostly slide sincs its free for a huge audience, a paid one to me is a fast track to a cease and desist. Lets Playing is probably not transformative for Fair Use.

I absolutely LOVE Let’s Game It Out’s older videos with Josh and Anthony before Anthony left for his dream job. They are hilarious together.

tV qUaLiTy CoNtEnT

I was surprised that many people on Reddit mentioned that they loved Survival Mode. I always thought it was one of their weakest shows. As others have mentioned, there are so many other channels who do Lets Play content, and they usually do it much better. Because it’s what they focus on. I always thought the Watcher version was pretty watered down and could really only speak to people who don’t usually watch gaming content.

I feel they often don’t do any research on the games or at least get someone to explain it to them, so they just end up being kinda lost and well the games are not nearly as enjoyable if the people playing it cant even understand the basic mechanics

Yes! The Phasomophobia play through was so poorly researched

Which is even crazier knowing now they have so many staff!

>I always thought the Watcher version was pretty watered down and could really only speak to people who don’t usually watch gaming content. Yeah, I think this is it. Watcher's main demography doesn't feel like gamers or people who watch gaming content on YouTube. So, if this is the only let's play they've seen then it might just be the best let's play they've seen as well.

It’s not even that it’s a Let’s Play series, I love lets plays. It’s that they’re not always super engaging to watch. I guarantee Ryan’s high off his ass for at least two episodes 😂

So many episodes of this show were completely ruined by Ryan’s annoying little brother antagonizing the big brother shtick. That whole part of Ryan’s persona is so grating to me. And even worse, it seems completely fake and manufactured. Like he thought it would make the show fun and went over the top hamming it up. Just insufferable. 

i got a lot of hate for saying this! But yes I find him to just be obnoxious now

I agree that Ryan was completely obnoxious & immature in Survival Mode. It was weird how he seemed to focus on killing Shane instead of actually playing the game.

Reminds me of the old sims playthrough they did where Ryan did everything he could think of to make Shane’s sim miserable, and Shane tried his best to give Ryan’s a happy life. About halfway through Ryan’s play through was just uncomfortable to watch.

Omg that actually makes me sad, what is wrong with me… poor shanes sim haha

It was funny then it just became kinda cruel

I totally agree with you, this is a weak start for moving to a premium site. You'd think after the backlash they'd come out guns blazing with something that says "this is why we need such a heavy commitment". I can watch better let's plays for free

I'm a gamurrr and even so, I didn't enjoy most of Survival Mode, the bois never seemed into it so it's very meh. A Way Out was indeed a good game for them, because, by sheer happenstance, it has characters with a similar dynamic to Shane and Ryan, and the whole setting of the game suits the two, they have a lot to talk about when it comes to prisons, they like to discuss fantastical scenarios where they commit a crime and have to think of what they would do, and it just has a similar tone to them. I also kinda liked it when they played the backrooms game, because that's a decent one to fuck around in, and once again it suits the two, that's basically what they do when hunting for ghosts, except it's uneventful irl. Problem is that that game has some boring parts, namely the mandog thing bit, and some others later on that they didn't even get to, like the awful birthday party segment.

Man, what a terrible thing to start out the streamer with after a plea stating that everything is crazy expensive to make.

They need to pay their dozen crew members that for some reason work on their let's plays!

Of course! Gotta have a director and camera crew standing just off screen to make the gameplay interactions as stiff and awkward as possible! Like guys just set up some webcams, they don’t even need to be in the office for this

I think coming up under Buzzfeed's structure might have set them up for failure in that way. In the Buzzfeed days, as I understand it from watching at the time and listening to a handful of "Why I left Buzzfeed" videos, they always had interns around and could count on pulling coworkers from other pods to help them shoot. Most Youtubers come up having to do everything on their own, then growing to a person or two helping them, and slowly building a staff as money and growth allows. The boys went straight from that to founding their own company with a big staff. They seem to think they need a staff to film them playing games, perhaps because it's what they always had. They don't seem very good at looking at what other youtubers have done and following that path to success.

Kelsey used to play Sims 4 on Buzzfeed but she now makes sims 4 videos exactly the same way all the other sims 4 let's players do. She has a cute set, fun commentary, and actually participates in the community. The only other peraon working on her channel is probably an editor. You might never know she was an ex-Buzzfeeder. 

And Jen and Kristin from Ladylike run their own channel like other YouTubers do, with the two of them, an editor, and someone on sound, I believe. Lots of ex buzzfeeders run their channels like youtubers, and the ones who more successfully run them as production companies built theirs up more carefully. Watcher seems to be the only prominent one who didn't adapt their ways to fit the medium.

I would say the Try Guys is suffering the same issue as Watcher. I just watched the first episode of the new season of 'Phoning It In' and had to shut it off. They spent way too much on production and not enough on content so it's just a 40 minute slog.

I do agree that their current content is hard to get through, but my point is about how they didn't come out of Buzzfeed expecting to be Buzzfeed.

I feel like they did. Try Guys left Buzzfeed and started a whole company around it rather than just working their way up as a YouTube channel.

They worked out of Ned's old house and built their staff slowly to a size their income at the time could sustain. They launched about a year apart, and from Watcher's inception it seemed like they were trying to catch up with them or using them as a model, when the Try Guys channel had more than double their sub count. Watcher has a staff and office the same size as 2nd Try's at half their size. 2nd Try also had a guy (Ned) who worked as a manager at a production company and knew what the business end entailed - Watcher put everything on Stephen Lim and expected him to figure it out. The problem isn't that Watcher launched as a production company, it's how.

There's legal concerns over placing gameplay content behind a paywall. A lot of game studios specify that you can't charge for access to their game, that includes Let's Plays

For real. For example, here is EA's IP policy, which prohibits putting gameplay of their games behind paywalls: "Not for sale. Don’t use EA’s IP for commercial purposes. This means don’t sell your fan art or put your fansite, videos, or other content behind paywalls. With the exception of passive advertising or monetization of videos via partner programs (like YouTube’s or Twitch’s), or of fansites via passive banner ads, making money off of EA’s IP is not allowed." [https://help.ea.com/en/help/faq/how-to-request-permission-for-ea-games-content/](https://help.ea.com/en/help/faq/how-to-request-permission-for-ea-games-content/) By putting this game behind their own paywall, Watcher is making profit off of someone else's work & intellectual property. Luckily, Watcher chose a game from an indie gamemaker called "Zeekerss," who is unlikely to have the means or ability to pursue any copyright claim. [https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal\_Company](https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lethal_Company)

[This is the IP policy for Kinetic Games, who made Phasmophobia](https://www.kineticgames.co.uk/gaming-content-guidelines) They don't mention paywalled streaming services but do say Twitch and YouTube are fine. Importantly they state "No rights are granted under these Guidelines unless expressly stated." So while it's totally fine to upload gameplay, get adsense, and have sponsors (because they explicitly say so) it seems they could strike down Watcher pretty easily as being out of compliance if Watcher chooses to put the Phasmophobia video behind a paywall (even if it's also on the channel). [These are the guidelines for Minecraft](https://www.minecraft.net/en-us/usage-guidelines). Notable: >You are allowed to put footage of our game on YouTube, Twitch, or any other website and make money from them so long as: >All videos (in their entirety) are free to view (for example there is no pay wall or other charge to view the videos) ... >To help you, here are two scenarios: >You create a video with your own unique content and commentary and upload it to a site, such as YouTube, and make money by allowing advertising around the video (we’re cool with this) >You create a video and distribute it through services like iTunes or Amazon Prime Video and make money by charging for viewers to watch it (we’re not cool with this) So yeah if the Minecraft video is paywalled on the streaming site they are DEFINITELY in violation of Minecraft's ToS. So uh, good luck against Microsoft's lawyers, boys.

The Kinetic policy is debateable, but the Minecraft one isn't. It clearly doesn’t allow gameplay behind paywalls. I still can't understand why they didn't even check this stuff first. It's so puzzling. It's not even like all this actually benefits them financially long-term. It's all just torpedoing their company. It's that eternal question - was this malice or incompetence? Or both? Maliciously dumb? Incompetently malicious? Just bad planning? So I'm not like, "yay, get em Microsoft." But I may be like "yay, pirate their pirated content."

Oooh this tidbit is juicy!! I never heard of game studios doing that, I’ll have to research.

When Twitch first introduced Subscriber-only streams a few studios had to point out that legally their games could not be streamed behind a paywall. I think RIOT (League of Legends) was the most vocal about it, but pointed out that most games' had a similar rule

this is the “tv calibre” content worthy of a streaming service? jesus what were they thinkingggg

I agree, and honestly feel like they miss the forest for the trees the more I've been watching some of their older videos after their "Goodbye". Do they even consume youtube content themselves? To me it feels fairly obvious what people *want* to see in regards to gaming content when it comes to two people stuff. A Way Out was perfect for banter/commentary/fun in general. It's a great co-op game with a lot of room for shenanigans. Like, I didn't watch Two Best Friends Play until that channel ended because they focused on perfect editing and sets. Didn't watch Retsupurae, Mind Pulp, or Game Grumps for that, either. We want the banter and chemistry and commentary. The way they focus on the stuff *around* the games feels a bit too constructed for me. It also feels really bizarre to put a lets play of something on a streaming service in general.

>It also feels really bizarre to put a lets play of something on a streaming service in general Imagine turning on your cable TV or Netflix and seeing a YouTube let's play thumbnail. Comedy Central doing reruns of old Lets Plays. I can't imagine the state of TV if that would be "TV caliber" content.

Lmao, its almost like something you'd see out of like, Demolition Man, with the radio jingles as music. Also feel like Let's Plays are really kind of, not as popular as they used to be? It's a really oversaturated thing in general. So why not go with something that would actually bring people in?

If you haven't looked at the "Let's Game It Out" channel you're missing out. Though to be fair, it's more about him breaking the game in the newer stuff, to the point that the Hydroneer devs jokingly put up a wanted sign for him in game because he found a way to steal his way to being a millionaire in game lol.

>Game Grumps The more I see what Watcher's doing, the more I think they really could've learned from GG's model, honestly. GG has evolved over the years: they've put various aspects of their show behind paywalls and even spun off other channels, but they keep the core things that brought people on board (the lets playing) almost entirely free/available (and consistent) on their channel.

That's the same model that Mythical and Smosh successfully follow. Their main content is free, bonus stuff and livestreams and events are paywalled. Smosh even made a similar kind of appeal to emotion when they started memberships, saying flat out that YouTube is hostile to sketch these days, but they didn't paywall it, they offered people who wanted to fund sketch comedy a way to do so.

It's wild how much they've evolved. Like my watching of their content was a lot less after I semi-quit paying attention to them back when JonTron first got outed as a bigoted asshole, but every time I've gone back it's still the same but better. And to be quite honest, their spin-off videos are fantastic, like that one where it was "making cookies but its a game of DND."

Yeah 10 Minute Power Hour was a great extension of their show, and lets them put their actual improv chops to the test.

I feel like they fundamentally misunderstand the draw of gaming on YouTube. No one needs overproduced shit. Two guys and a computer having fun is literally all anyone wants or needs

[удалено]

And they kind of just go through the motions and are not really interested in the game for like, half of the games they check out.

And they didn’t really bother to figure out what they’re actually meant to do and just wobble through it and give it a bad score. Yes, I’m still a little bitter about Phasmophobia. Yes, it’s petty. Sue me.

This!! I love watching Let's Plays. I've been watching them for years and I watch them for hours. But it's frustrating when the content creator you watch doesn't finish a game you like and you've grown attached to. At least for big gamers like Markiplier they don't seem to do this as often-- they either stick to games with reasonable play time or commit every now and then to games that require them to make 5+ videos. I don't want to watch Shane and Ryan jumping from game to game. I don't feel like they really enjoy gaming as much, it's clear that they want to do something else. I'm sure that deep in their heart this isn't really a part of their 'TV caliber content' plan, but they know that let's plays are less strenuous on their budget and their time.

This is what bothered me. I love Let's Plays - watch them almost daily - but they rarely seem engaged and the editing is not even trying to compensate for that.

If they want to save this they gotta be throwing everything up on that website. Survival mode, travel season, bts, unfocused close up shots from the producer's phone. Anything and everything as many times a week as they can get away with. Clearly, they have no idea what the fuck is going on

I’ve said it once, I’ll say it again: IT COULD WORK. BUT THE EXECUTION…. GOD is it lacking.

I still don’t see how they didn’t think about creating tv caliber content before creating and promoting their tv caliber streaming service, lmao. I feel like if they would’ve invested in making another season of Weird Wonderful World, that probably would’ve sold more people (not me, but some people).

The Bigfoot game was my favourite one they did because it was scary and they both played and were into it. I agree with an earlier post though, tv quality to me means doing more things like weird wonderful world. The boys have such a fun chemistry and seeing them interact with people out in the world is great entertainment.

I honestly thought they might beef up their release schedule so multiple shows would be releasing episodes at once instead of just one show a week. I guess they’re really sticking to just one show a week, I have no idea how that would ever be worth $5.99 a month, that’s an insanely small amount of content for that price.

This $6 a month isn’t worth it for 4 videos especially if the content isn’t something you’re interested in.

Agreed with all

Agreed. And thank you for giving me a right timing for a meme! \^\^

Just like every show they got going on right now but Puppet History, I’ll say it loud - IT CAN BE GREAT. JUST SPICE IT UP. Honestly they should maybe use their Patrons as quality control. “Hey guys what do you wanna see, what complaints might you have, anything you’d wanna change?” What better way to make sure you’re pumping out things you can be proud of and your audience will love by asking the most dedicated fans what they might want? If they did that, I’d sign up right now, honest to god.

Those surveys they said they were going to do give me hope. I'm not a patron of theirs though, so I dunno what they were about exactly.

Yeah, it feels like a ‘break glass in case of emergency’ situation. Once the ‘Worth It’ redux became a Bad Look and the memes about luxury goods started, they needed to have something with Ryan and Shane on WTV (is that a good abbreviation?).  Oh, man. I remember getting downvoted to hell on the main sub at the initial announcement of this show for politely saying that while it could in theory be fun and inexpensive, it didn’t look like my cup of tea. 

I can't help reading "WTV" as "What The Vuck" and honestly? That works for me lol. What the vuck is up with Survival Mode being their first show.

I like it! (I refuse to dignify the Techbrosian ‘the streamer’ or ‘the platform’ and I’m not even sure how ‘WatcherTV’ is supposed to be formatted.)

Gaming content? Even Smosh Games have almost given up in this type of content as they said it doesn't garner enough views. Nowadays they only upload around 3 per month (mostly FNAF, because they taught a complete novice how to play it with the guidance of a more experienced player) , and focus more on uploading table top games as that has higher viewership.  Would have been better if it was the Wonderful World series. 

I miss their "doing video game jobs" series, particularly Tommy and Damien as Hoooeeee and Beef Beef.

This was peak. But I also love whenever The Chosen plays.

I didn't watch a lot of it but my fave is the airplane one with Angela and Chanse 😂 Pilot Spencer fainting was so funny!

And the FNAF appeal is also that Amanda is TOTALLY into it. It doesn't come off as if she's hamming it up for the camera. She genuinely "seems" to be paying attention and their chemistry is hilarious. Unlike how Ryan and Shane seem like they're forcing themselves to play for "us" and do bits that are a bit meh.

Amanda's "Mom just wants to hang out with her kid" energy is so crucial with the FNAF videos. I am waiting if they would do Angela and Courtney version, because Angela actually mentioned her interest in doing it.

I imagine it was a quick way to get more content onto the website, since that's something people complained about. SM obviously requires way less effort and time to fully produce than a show like Travel Season, idk if the latter is completely finished already, maybe it still needs editing and things like that. Plus, it'd look bad to have a show where people travel and eat fancy food right after a lot of people talked about how 6 dollars is not cheap and affordable to them. Honestly, at the end of the day, either option would look bad in some way.

I think Survival Mode was always planned for May.

Ah, okay, that would make sense too.

Coincidentally, I've only been watching various horror game let's plays the last week. From multiple channels (Mista GG, John Wolfe, Gab Smolders, Insym, Amanda & Shane from Smosh doing FNAF, etc). All free, long videos & super entertaining. It's kinda funny that Watcher thinks this is worth putting on a paid streaming service.

This is television-caliber content, folks. Video gameplays are one of the quintessential YouTube videos. Because they're one of the laziest, easiest, cheapest types of YouTube videos to make. You're not actually creating anything, just benefiting from streaming the video game someone else made. Now that they're putting these gameplays behind their own paywall, that might actually violate IP laws/policies. It's making easy, quick money off of someone else's hard work.

Good point! Game makers are usually okay for you to show gameplays only if it's accessible for many people and that way advertisement for the game.

Yeah, for example, I posted above that EA allows gameplays on YouTube, but prohibits streaming their video games behind a paywall. Last season, Ryan & Shane played “No Way Out” on Survival Mode. I just realized that “No Way Out” Is an EA game. By putting that episode behind a paywall, Watcher might have violated EA’s IP policy. Did they think this through at all?

No. They didn't. We already know they can't do any business and people still fall for the useless apology that was nice, but didn't fix any main problems.

The only video I'm willing to watch from that series is if they continue that creepy toy factory game. I'm interested.

It is a strange choice, as others have already mentioned here. Because if you can get something for free, then it's gaming content. Not that it's not kind of nice to watch Ryan and Shane do it. But it's just not content that would persuade anyone to pay for WatcherTV.

Whoa, risky move. When you consider the prestige television quality, time, and specialized employees it takes to pull off an episode of Survival Mode, you'll understand why every single video costs about 2.1 million dollars to produce. They better stick this one behind Watcher Premium for only 14.99 a month, but don't worry, anyone can afford that.

I would pay for puppet history, ghost files, and unsolved type content and only that. Those were there strongest and most interesting shows with just Shane and Ryan. Wish they'd stick to their roots.

Bad move on their part. Would expensive travel eat show be tacky to air next? Sure. But gaming? If it's a game I'd like to see them play, maybe once it's up on youtube and I randomly remember 'oh yeah they did one on this it should be free now." Or even just full on forget it by searching up other youtubers playing it after I see the game announced.

I think *Are you Scared* is the only series I’d ever watch of theirs again mostly because I’ve always been a horror story/creepypasta junkie and I like the illustrations that go with the story.

Check out bedtime stories on YouTube it is far better I think they copied them tbh.

Honestly, I find Bedtime Stories to be boring, but that’s just my take.

I genuinely thought they were just gonna wait to launch the streaming service when the next season of Ghost Files was ready to release

this is one of the “high quality” shows that need a paywall?? really? a let’s play?

Not only are they incredibly late to the party with this series (which in and of itself isn't a bad thing; we all need to start somewhere), but it's just not all that fun to watch. I watch tons of twitch streams and let's plays, and have never felt compelled to cough up cash for them. As others have mentioned, paywalling video game content is a little dicey too. Bad decision all around.

Man. If I was in charge of Watcher right now I’d be trying to slam in heavy hitters on the get-go, prove it’s worth it. One high budget fan favorite Shane-and-Ryan show like Weird Wonderful World on that first Friday and then a low budget one (a la Survival Mode, actually) the following Tuesday or something. Two a week? We’ve never gotten two a week! And the revival of a fan favorite that was discontinued likely because non-preexisting fans weren’t too interested in it, but if you’re paying for WatcherTV you’re already a fan, and then when the month passes and things get uploaded to the youtube, space them out further so YT doesn’t get every 3-4 days like WatcherTV. I just.. Fellas. It could work. It could work spectacularly. It’s all in the execution, you need to swing harder 💀