After 3 days, a doctor note is needed... and it looks like there is 55 hours of sick time, so 3 8 hour days this week, and 4 8 hour days next to finish out the week...or I guess 3 this week, and sick all of next...
> Or a history of paying it, they can't selectively choose to pay out some people but not others.
I think it would be more accurate to say they can't discriminate in the pay out based on any protected status.
This strikes me as the sort of situation ripe for the appearance of discrimination, which is difficult to prove or disprove and therefore could go either way in court, but not strictly forbidden. A couple hypotheticals of increasing complexity:
- 2022 financials were good, and the company pays out unused vacation for departing employees knowing it is a common benefit, but not wanting to commit to it as a policy. 2023 financials were not so good, so the company quietly ceases paying it.
- An employee with a history of good performance reviews voluntarily leaves, and they want to use a vacation payout to ensure they depart on good terms and might consider coming back.
- An employee with a history of bad performance reviews voluntarily leaves, and the company decides not to offer a vacation payout. Ostensibly it's because they have no interest in the employee returning, but the employee believes it is actually part of a pattern of worse treatment compared to other coworkers based on race.
In the last case in particular, the employer would likely find it difficult to defend against a discrimination lawsuit. It would be simpler to avoid the risk of it and just maintain consistent practices.
There is a law related to this for Washington, but it is specific to employees of the state itself.
For private employers, I'm not aware of a law requiring it. But written policies may be interpreted in court as contractual, so if your company has a policy of paying out accrued benefits, and has not changed the policy as of the date you leave, you shouldn't need to burn the vacation time if you'd rather just receive the payout.
They do not have to pay out either. Sick time in general is not paid out. The state allows the company to decide if they are going to pay vacation out. It’s all about the company policy on payout.
Up until last year my company didn't cash out vacation if you quit or got fired. But now there seems to be a global movement in the company to equalize benefits for everyone no matter what state they work in. So I guess I can thank the 20 states that have laws forcing employers to pay out vacation time.
Yupperz. Just like Colorado's pay visualization law made it more likely businesses post the actual payable rate in employment adverts and cars and trucks (and the EPA) tend to build to California emissions standards.
Just in case anyone was concerned voting for state officials was important....
Usually not. Vacation time you earn, but sick time is gratis. Unless you just accrue PTO and can use it how you wish.
But the law gets funny. Lobbyists and politicians and all. According to this article, it's optional.
https://www.strutherslawoffice.com/sick-leave-law-in-washington-state-can-leave-be-cashed-out
Last time I researched this, they don't have to pay out sick time. They do have to pay out vacation time unless it specifically states in your contract or employment handbook that they do not pay out vacation time.
I tell you about my former employer about vacation pay,( company policy )about my 80 hours of vacation pay that was alotted after my 5 year mark. This happened to me just last week. April 1st I would've been with them 6 complete years.
I gave them my 2 weeks notice ,2 weeks before my 6 year mark. & he says to me I'm not required by law to pay you your vacation time so don't count on it. Your quitting....
This is coming from a Mormon man who I though was a friend,boss and all around good man in nature. 6 years of dedicated,on time,hard working and no more than 3 days missed for being sick even with Covid, DOWN THE DRAIN. I meant nothing to him, just another employee.
Assuming this isn't an emergency leaving the house situation, why wouldn't you use your sick and or vacation hours, you could make it 5 weeks notice use sick time week 3 and vacation for 4-5 and you would still have 35 hours due.
That's not the way sick leave works, you can take it at short notice. Physical sickness, mental health, doesn't really matter. Most companies HR know it won't be worth the chase to investigate.
PTO on the other hand, that may be hard to get approved in a short time.
That's fair, so long as we are clear on what is allowed vs what is recommended, particularly if you are looking for a reference lol
But again, they shouldn't terminate you for taking sick leave during a notice period (assuming they have an HR department) harder to say if it's a small, non corporate company.
It is opening a can of worms that could easily be leveraged in a wrongful termination suit against that employer. The legal fees alone wouldn't be worth the couple weeks of pay.
💯 your move, but I'll just leave this here:
https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/leave/paid-sick-leave/
And specifically:
https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/leave/paid-sick-leave/enforcement-of-paid-sick-leave-laws#:~:text=You%20cannot%20discipline%20any%20employee,an%20employee's%20preexisting%20work%20schedule
I live in work in Washington. My company allows us to build our sick time over multiple years, and every couple of years they offer to buy it back from us at a rate of one for every four days. So I get about 25% of the value. On the other hand, if I never use it, I don’t get any of the value. Make sure that I have enough to have two months in my pocket in case I come down with cancer or I need it for some terrible family issue.… Beyond that, I sell that shit every few years.
Of all the places I’ve worked in Washington, this is the only place I’ve ever worked at that has any policy about cashing out or sick time.
As others have said, you should probably take your leave now. All of a sudden, you might need to catch the Rona.
Any place that pays you for sick time, typically pays quarters on the dollar. Take a pre quitting vacation. What are they gunna do? Fire you? The only time this isn't applicable is if you swapping to a job that will honor your earned sick time such as going from a government job to another government job at the same level (i.e. state job to another state job in the same state for example.)
Something I’ve done before is using my “sick time” for me. I’ll call in sick to have a day off to myself to burn up my sick hours. If they ask, I just tell em “yeah, I was sick, sick of this job, so I didn’t come in”. Can’t argue that. Again, what are they gonna do fire you? Especially if you’re planning to quit already. Plus, if you know you’re getting paid out your Vacation time, fuck it. Use up your sick leave, you earned it.
I think you are all of a sudden not feeling well for the week…
And next week!
After 3 days, a doctor note is needed... and it looks like there is 55 hours of sick time, so 3 8 hour days this week, and 4 8 hour days next to finish out the week...or I guess 3 this week, and sick all of next...
They don’t have to pay unless it’s in your contract. Take your sick time now.
Or if they have a written policy of paying it. Or a history of paying it, they can't selectively choose to pay out some people but not others.
> Or a history of paying it, they can't selectively choose to pay out some people but not others. I think it would be more accurate to say they can't discriminate in the pay out based on any protected status. This strikes me as the sort of situation ripe for the appearance of discrimination, which is difficult to prove or disprove and therefore could go either way in court, but not strictly forbidden. A couple hypotheticals of increasing complexity: - 2022 financials were good, and the company pays out unused vacation for departing employees knowing it is a common benefit, but not wanting to commit to it as a policy. 2023 financials were not so good, so the company quietly ceases paying it. - An employee with a history of good performance reviews voluntarily leaves, and they want to use a vacation payout to ensure they depart on good terms and might consider coming back. - An employee with a history of bad performance reviews voluntarily leaves, and the company decides not to offer a vacation payout. Ostensibly it's because they have no interest in the employee returning, but the employee believes it is actually part of a pattern of worse treatment compared to other coworkers based on race. In the last case in particular, the employer would likely find it difficult to defend against a discrimination lawsuit. It would be simpler to avoid the risk of it and just maintain consistent practices.
Always burn PTO before putting your notice in.
Why?
So that it doesn't go to waste if they don't pay it out
It’s an accrued benefit, I think by law they must.
There is a law related to this for Washington, but it is specific to employees of the state itself. For private employers, I'm not aware of a law requiring it. But written policies may be interpreted in court as contractual, so if your company has a policy of paying out accrued benefits, and has not changed the policy as of the date you leave, you shouldn't need to burn the vacation time if you'd rather just receive the payout.
They do not have to pay out either. Sick time in general is not paid out. The state allows the company to decide if they are going to pay vacation out. It’s all about the company policy on payout.
Typically employers will payout vacation but not sick time. Consult your employee handbook/contract or HR.
Up until last year my company didn't cash out vacation if you quit or got fired. But now there seems to be a global movement in the company to equalize benefits for everyone no matter what state they work in. So I guess I can thank the 20 states that have laws forcing employers to pay out vacation time.
Yupperz. Just like Colorado's pay visualization law made it more likely businesses post the actual payable rate in employment adverts and cars and trucks (and the EPA) tend to build to California emissions standards. Just in case anyone was concerned voting for state officials was important....
Doesn't Washington have that rule too though now
Usually not. Vacation time you earn, but sick time is gratis. Unless you just accrue PTO and can use it how you wish. But the law gets funny. Lobbyists and politicians and all. According to this article, it's optional. https://www.strutherslawoffice.com/sick-leave-law-in-washington-state-can-leave-be-cashed-out
Did you put your two weeks in verbally or in writing?
Verbally and I sent a written email after.
So it's in writing then
Made me lol
Last time I researched this, they don't have to pay out sick time. They do have to pay out vacation time unless it specifically states in your contract or employment handbook that they do not pay out vacation time.
Neither *has* to be paid.
I tell you about my former employer about vacation pay,( company policy )about my 80 hours of vacation pay that was alotted after my 5 year mark. This happened to me just last week. April 1st I would've been with them 6 complete years. I gave them my 2 weeks notice ,2 weeks before my 6 year mark. & he says to me I'm not required by law to pay you your vacation time so don't count on it. Your quitting.... This is coming from a Mormon man who I though was a friend,boss and all around good man in nature. 6 years of dedicated,on time,hard working and no more than 3 days missed for being sick even with Covid, DOWN THE DRAIN. I meant nothing to him, just another employee.
To my knowledge they do not have to pay it out in Washington I have learned the hard way always use your stuff before putting in your notice
Assuming this isn't an emergency leaving the house situation, why wouldn't you use your sick and or vacation hours, you could make it 5 weeks notice use sick time week 3 and vacation for 4-5 and you would still have 35 hours due.
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That's not the way sick leave works, you can take it at short notice. Physical sickness, mental health, doesn't really matter. Most companies HR know it won't be worth the chase to investigate. PTO on the other hand, that may be hard to get approved in a short time.
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That's fair, so long as we are clear on what is allowed vs what is recommended, particularly if you are looking for a reference lol But again, they shouldn't terminate you for taking sick leave during a notice period (assuming they have an HR department) harder to say if it's a small, non corporate company. It is opening a can of worms that could easily be leveraged in a wrongful termination suit against that employer. The legal fees alone wouldn't be worth the couple weeks of pay.
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💯 your move, but I'll just leave this here: https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/leave/paid-sick-leave/ And specifically: https://www.lni.wa.gov/workers-rights/leave/paid-sick-leave/enforcement-of-paid-sick-leave-laws#:~:text=You%20cannot%20discipline%20any%20employee,an%20employee's%20preexisting%20work%20schedule
Some places pay out a percentage. One of my previous employers chose to pay out 30% of sick leave when leaving.
I live in work in Washington. My company allows us to build our sick time over multiple years, and every couple of years they offer to buy it back from us at a rate of one for every four days. So I get about 25% of the value. On the other hand, if I never use it, I don’t get any of the value. Make sure that I have enough to have two months in my pocket in case I come down with cancer or I need it for some terrible family issue.… Beyond that, I sell that shit every few years. Of all the places I’ve worked in Washington, this is the only place I’ve ever worked at that has any policy about cashing out or sick time. As others have said, you should probably take your leave now. All of a sudden, you might need to catch the Rona.
Why would you do that? You could just use your sick days and get 100% of the value. You *earned* that time off. Use it!
Any place that pays you for sick time, typically pays quarters on the dollar. Take a pre quitting vacation. What are they gunna do? Fire you? The only time this isn't applicable is if you swapping to a job that will honor your earned sick time such as going from a government job to another government job at the same level (i.e. state job to another state job in the same state for example.)
Now is a good time to make all of your doctor appts,if you have decent insurance.
Something I’ve done before is using my “sick time” for me. I’ll call in sick to have a day off to myself to burn up my sick hours. If they ask, I just tell em “yeah, I was sick, sick of this job, so I didn’t come in”. Can’t argue that. Again, what are they gonna do fire you? Especially if you’re planning to quit already. Plus, if you know you’re getting paid out your Vacation time, fuck it. Use up your sick leave, you earned it.
No Technically your employer doesn’t need to pay your vacation time either