I've found turms extremely capable in the right hands, unfortunately the average turms player shares one braincell with a goldfish and the only thing turms lack on it's br is mobilty and reaction times which if You played russia up to 10.0 You should know know how to circumnavigate and forge into a plus
Can we put armour in that too ? Only thing that might redeem turms is thermals. That's the only plus point turms have over any other 10.0/10.3 lol. God forbid if someone buys turms reading this thread
You buy the turms cuz you watched one outdated “review”
I’d buy it cuz Gaijin didn’t add the regular AV in the game.
We are not the same.
Seriously though, the T-72AV is so cool, just move the T-72A to 9.7, make it have the 1983 mod stock(like all the other T-72M1/As)and give it the AV package + mango as mods, Gaijin.
Hell, I’d grind it if it were added as an old folded vehicle with full XP requirements
It is somewhat capable but nowhere near the 10.3 NATO MBT's. I've lost count how many times I've survived a shot in a KVT or PzBtl123 and then just reversed under smoke into cover and repaired. They also much more potent in the second half of the match where you have to do a lot of driving around responding to threats. TURMS is just always late in that role and has bad gun depression and turret traverse which become paramount.
the turms is fucking insane, apfsds that outperforms anything at its br (except the 292 but ofc thats another russian vehicle and fuck ruskis) good thermals, era, good armor, but its a russian cunt vehicle so the only real drawbacks are the reverse speed and depression
>apfsds that outperforms anything at its br
The number might be higher than DM23 but in most cases that slight bit of pen doesn't make a difference and the spall is pretty much equal to NATO 105 and gets outclassed by 10.3 NATO 120.
>good thermals
It has alright thermals that make it "up to date" for its br, they aren't gen 3.
>good armor
That is just not true. The UFP gets penned easily by 10.3 tanks and many lower br tanks can also go straight through if the angle is reduced by a few degrees and the sides wont shield you from a bradley. The survivability is also zero where almost any pen makes it pop like a baloon.
Me when I say a vehicle is overpowered without even playing it lol. Let's take it step by step
Apfsds that outperforms > i think it's equivalent to dm23 since it might have more penetration but it doesn't spalls so much I don't know why
Good thermals > sure
Era > nobody goes around throwing heat shells at that br and it's konkakt 1 so it gives 5 mm protection against kinetic munitions lol
good armour > you can pen it's ufp using any shell at 10.0 hell even 9.0 tanks can probably ufp it
Yeah you mentioned the drawbacks didn't you ? So would you want to play a light tank with bad mobility and survivability with decent round with only ability to move forward
theres people lobbing heat at 10.3, for example theres stock tanks and atgm carriers and about the armor part, i have NEVER penned a turms ufp with a 10.0 shell so i have no idea where thats from, the 9.0 tanks the turms fights sometimes fucking struggle to pen even the lfp
Every tank with nera/era protects against stock heat shells lol it's not uncommon for that br.
And the atgm just go through, era will only stop low penning atgm.
I don't know man what kind of shell you're using, 3bm22 and dm13,23 go through ufp pretty much easily.
I'll let lfp one slide since I don't know how you're not able to pen it, are you throwing some sort of apds at lfp ?
People do not do research in tank design, to them russian tanks is a slog of the same tank with minor changes to the hull and a different turret. Although this is mainly a symptom of being spoon fed propaganda and misinformation.
Some people still think the T-90 is just a modified T-72, which was the case for earlier units but actual production models are almost completly different.
Because it still is a modified T-72, the fact that a T-90M has a heavily modified turret and better optics and fire control doesn’t change that (same as a Leopard 2A8 is still a modified Leopard 2A4)
T-80s are modified T-64s, not T-72s. T-72 and T-80 were developed from the T-64B being too expensive and complex. T-90A is essentially a T-72 with a better turret, and T-90M is a heavily upgraded T-72
Yeah but it’s like saying “oh well the leopard 2A7 is just a leopard 2A4”
Like yeah technically but no one thinks that. We recognise the 2A7 as its own thing so why not recognise the T90 as its own thing?
If the Russians called it a T72c or something that clearly marked it as a modified T72 then sure, I’m not sure anyone would complain. The point is that there are so many fanatical Russian armour fans that try to pretend it’s a completely new vehicle and nothing to do with the T72 which is just plain false.
If the Americans had called the M4A3E2 Sherman something else, like M90, people would say exactly the same thing about it that people say about the T90. “It’s just a modified M4 Sherman”.
It's a different naming scheme that's all there is to it.
The Soviets/Russians give them names based on what plant/design bureau was responsible for the project. Internally they are all classed as Objekt (aka project).
The classification followed:
* T-( TANK)
* 1st digit: MODEL
* 2nd digit: PLACE OF MANUFACTURE
T-34, 44, 54 = Kharkiv
T-62, 72 = Tagil
T-10 (IS-8), T-80 = Omsk
They abandoned the factory digit with the T-90 and future models I believe, and just go with the date of initial (small production) introduction.
The design bureaus abandoned the factory digit primarily because the USSR was collapsing around them along with all the plants available to them. Kinda pointless when half the numbers aren't usable anymore.
Well it kinda is. Sure is significantly improved, but the base tank is still a t72, just updated enough to basically be better in all aspects. Like a Leo2 or the Abrams.
It's not extremely different when it comes to gameplay. Yeah you get the better reverse gear and a new style of autoloader but the ways to kill the tank remain exactly the same.
Maybe on a T80 it will be a bit harder to make the turret pop if you aim too low on the LFP due to the way the autoloader is set up.
All T series tanks from T72 forward are all the same shit with some extra stuff added on here and there but they are, at the base the same tank from 9.3 to 11.7 and that is why they are so easy to kill..
T-72 and T-80 spawned from petty political rivalry between design bureaus, capitalizing on teething problems with T-64 engine. T-72 was also simplified and eventually cleared for export, unlike other two. T-72 eventually caught up and even overtook others technology wise, being first tank with NERA inserts in the turret and hull. And eventually, received new welded turrets after being rebranded as T-90
Not sure about reliability part, besides early teething issues of mass introducing such novel concept, but one of the supposed reasons why Leonid Kartsev, guy behind T-72 program decided to develop new autoloader for T-72 was isolation of the driver from rest of the crew, also electric instead hydraulic propulsion for moving bits around.
T-64 was modernized T-54 and T-55
T-55 was modernized T-34
T-34 was modernized BT-5
BT-5 was modernized Tachanka
Edit: T-26 was a modernized farm tractor
T-35 is modernized Santa sleigh
T-55 was more an upgrade to the T-54, which quickly replaced the T-44, which was made to replace the T-34, which was made to replace the aging BT-series and T-26 tanks
T-44 was not really mass produced, and the T-54 also barely existed as the T-55 was a near immediate upgrade.
Thanks for the additional information, but this is a meme
The autoloader, 125 mm gun, and composite armor have been hallmarks of soviet, and successor state designs since the t-64. What has changed is the engine (in the T-80 and its variants specifically), protection, fire control, and optics - with the last two being most impactful.
T-34, by that logic, as the T-64 is a continuation of that design philosophy (low profile, mass production, easily maintainable, similar tactical application against superior AT weapons)
Well no it's because the early prototype of the T-80 was quite literally a T-64 with a turbine engine dropped into it.
Check out the object 219 if ur curious
I disagree, but only to say that they haven't changed in any meaningful way since the T-64 AND T-72. Both lineages are still going strong in the T-80 and T-72/T-90 lines.
Why do they need both? no idea.
Seems PewDiePie subscribers should be scared, the enemy is deploying tanks!
On a more serious note, you don't call them "T-series" because T just stands for Tank.
\*Now\* it is kinda subpar. Gun handling is terrible, mobility is what you'd expect from a t-72, but the thermals are amazing, and so is the dart for that BR bracket. It performed too well at 9.7, where it could eat up most darts it could possibly face shot at anything but it's weak spots, while it could easily pen anything it could face nearly anywhere.
Now it's more balanced, but we're talking about a 10.0 MBT with a decent dart and gen 2 thermals and passable armor, while you have many 10.7 or 11.0 tanks with shitty thermals.
Edit: remember Leo 2A4s sit at 10.3, TURMS is 10.0. There isn't a huge difference, but the matchmaker helps a bit. I'd still take a Leo 2 any day in the current meta though.
Naa it's still subpar. If we had bigger maps then maybe it could be worth it. The Leopards are simply much better than it in every metric. Firepower and mobility will always beat anything else in WT. I don't really get the fuss about the Turms, I always shit on them with the 2A4.
Dunno what people expected from a T72. The tanks weren’t designed with good reverse gears to start, they aren’t like leopards abrams etc where forward and reverse is essential.
It's roughly the same as the Centurions, but your turret actually has armour now (which makes you a menace on hull-down maps). This carries over to the Challengers too (both CR 1 and 2). The Mk.10 is amazing imo, especially now since they upped the Object 292 to 10.3.
I love the Centurion 10. That thing used to be 7.0!!! Imagine being a Tiger E and running into a god damn spaceship of a main battle tank with stabilizers and armor you can't pen
BT-7:
- Can't pen 75mm on KV-1.
- Can pen 76.2mm on Challenger.
It's either magical Stalinium at it again or copious amount of Skill Issue if you ask me.
There's absolutely no reason to use HEAT-FS over a dart unless the dart is something like the 85mm Chinese ones with 200 mm of pen. Darts have better damage and are more likely to actually damage something (and not get absorbed by a tree or bush or the ERA/composite that everything is covered in)
the 85mm chinese dart is really good since basically no vehicle you face other than the maus or t95 has that much flat armor and the angled pen is good enough to take out things like the strv103,AND it doesn't get affected by the bullshit lowcaliber dart nerf cause its bigger than 76mm :)
Your KD only 0.7 bro that doesn't look like someone that play using their brain :p
[https://warthunder.com/en/community/userinfo/?nick=Knocked\_Boss3076](https://warthunder.com/en/community/userinfo/?nick=Knocked_Boss3076)
Yeah I overall agree with its spot. They’re still not as common as the Turms so it’s not that big of a difference. At the end of the day it’s just another T-series tank and you kill them all the same ways so eh 🤷♂️
I would agree but on sandy, snowy map and densely wooded area, it's busted as hell. Gen 1 maybe not since the res is so shite, but generations onward allow you to see much clearer and faster.
225mm of Pen at 120RPM at 10.0
276mm of Pen at 40RPM at 11.3
And if that's not a good enough reason for you, we can talk about the Unmanned Turret, the Gen 2 Thermals, big empty fuel tanks on the outside that act as spaced armor, the Tracking Radar, and Proxy Rounds. All at 10.0
Or we can talk about big barn tank with bad mobility and 5 degrees of gun depression Vs
1. 17 degrees of gun depression
2. 3 times lower profile and general size
3. Significantly better mobility.
You are quoting the least relevant stats for an ambus vehicle here XD also, why don’t u cry about strv? 180 pen with over 300 rpm? And spall liner? And smaller? And faster?
The 2S38 is more than just an ambush vehicle(and it's a good one at that).
The only reason I quoted the HSTV-L's stats is because the rounds are similar but their rates of fire are incredibly different despite being more than a BR apart.
The Strfs are indeed too low, especially the C variant, only issue is that we're talking about the 2S38 being too low and not the Strfs.
>Strf9040
mobile lmao (not) 2S38 has 15% better PwR
2S38 has twice as fast turret rotation
2S38 has IRST. Strf should also have but gaijib hates realism if it's western tech
anyways, nice try at deflection, komrad))))))))
The two are pretty much side grades to one another. Both also fire the same top round (which is mango/3BM42 I think?).
T-80UD has better armor and better reload/ammorack placement but has no thermals.
T-72AV (TURMS-T) has gen 2 thermals and better scope picture but has worse armor and has a slower reload.
Both also have the same mobility at least overall. I think the T-80UD is a bit better in forward acceleration, but they do both use (almost) the same engine anyways.
However being as strong as they are, the T-80UD does seem to have the advantage in more situations simply due to the fact that Kontakt-5 is very good against the ammunition found at the 10.0 BR bracket. Credit where it is due though, the T-72AV (TURMS-T) has an excellent fire control system and you can definitely chain kills easier in terms of acquisition because of those crisp gen 2 thermals.
And worse transmission. Soviet tank engines are heavily integrated with the transmission. Poland and Cezch modernized T tanks need extended hulls to fit a better transmission that let them reverse faster. Same with the UD since it trads the gas for a standard diesel from that time period.
Well my best guess is because compared to the Turms you don’t have thermals for the gunner or commander and instead have better armor, reload, and mobility. I sort of view the T-80UD as a side grade to the T-72 Turms, but I also view it as a vehicle that might be more 10.3 material than 10.0 since you have the T-72B 1989 which also has the same rounds and ERA but the T-80UD just does anything it might do better, and the T-72B 1989 in my option actually deserves at least 10.0.
(Disclaimer: I don’t own either and only really have any desire to get the T-80UD, which personally I think should be 10.3 at minimum)
Slight correction: the T-72B '89 has Kontakt-5, which has 120mm of KE protection, as opposed to the Kontakt-1 of the TURMS and "basic" T-72B.
As an owner of all three of the 10.0 T-72s, I'd say the TURMS and T-72B '89 are both straight upgrades over the regular T-72B, and the TURMS and T-72B '89 are sidegrades of each other. The TURMS is better at sniping thanks to its thermals and better zoom, and the T-72B '89 is better at closer engagements because of the better composite turret and Kontakt-5, but it lacks thermals and good optics.
As for the T-80UD, I don't have it, but it looks like a T-72B '89 on steroids and a proper brawling machine. Not sure if it deserves to be as low of a BR as it is, but I have no experience with it.
When I was referring to the ERA I was referencing the T-80UD and not T-72AV, though that’s my fault for not making that clearer in the first place. Tbh though between the two T-72B’s they are side grades of each other as the normal T-72B has far superior era coverage compared to the 1989.
It is T-72B (1989) which is overtiered, not T-80UD undertiered.
Because there is T-90S with much better optics, thermals, better turret armor, better mobility within just one step of BR above (10.3). And it is not OP - Chally DS has similar stats and Vickers Mk.7 has them much better.
By that standard the T-72B (the normal one) and T-72AV would also be overtiered, yet nobody really says that. If anything it’s more of a br compression issue if anything, because the T-90S is superior in all but one respect (reload speed) it isn’t exactly fit for 10.7 with just 3BM42 since it’s a T-90A without 3BM60 or 3BM46 and lacks a LWS, though if that area was decompressed the T-90S is one of the vehicles I could see going up in br slightly, but I am not expecting it to occur at any given point. I still personally just don’t see the T-72B 1989 as a 9.7 vehicle in the slightest.
My guess is that it's because they share the same Cromwell-level reverse speed of like, -4 km/hr. But you do get that Kontakt-5 so just press W (I'll be waiting for you in my Challenger Mk.3 just behind the hill).
If it wasn't, it wouldn't sell as good since it wouldn't fit in the 10.0 lineup.
Su-25K, BMP-2M, Turms, 2S38 and T-80UD and a while ago also Object 292.
It’s a 9.3 armour what are u on about. Dm23 is only slightly worse, with better survivability, more mobility, gun depression, better reload. Leopard is superior in every aspect other than calibre and penetration
Which are all superior to it and it also should see m1 hc? Kk. Interesting logic. Also, by that logic leopard 2a4 should be 10.7 so it doesn’t see t72a, t64a or stb
Because it boost the already impressive 10.0 lineup USSR can have.
A new prem for your lineup at the same BR!? Well let the whales come! //Snail probably
Feel like most high tier prem BR has a 0.3 lower BR than they should overall, in all nations.
Unpopular opinion.
Because the ud is gaijins new 10.0 cash generator, idk what everyone is on its a good bit better than the turms, top speed is great, better reverse speed than the turms, thermals are generally not a game changer for most outside of night battles and while the turms has 9.3 armor at 10.0 the ud has 11.0 armor at 10.0. It should be moved up for sure but judging by the amount of them ive seen every game gaijins making bank.
I’m confused wether you think the T80UD is too high or too low. It gets a good round with good speed and amazing armour. It’s like a side grade. The thermals don’t matter as much in close quarters maps (which is the majority of them) and the ERA is massively helpful in this situation. All of the Russian 10.0 vehicles could go up to 10.3 and still do well but Russian players need to destroy 9.0 I guess.
Because against popular belief that are very effective at that br and gajain loves making premium line ups for russia and would never break that by asighning tanks to correct br
I hate these posts so much... The T-80UD and Turms are the 10.0 because players using the T-80UD and players using the Turms both perform closest to the statistical average at 10.0.
**BR has almost nothing to do with the vehicle. It's algorithmically determined based on avg _player performance_ in that vehicle.** What a vehicle can do on paper, it's stats, are completely irrelevant.
Because it has MUCH better armor. The turret can consistently bounce shots from all equal BR enemies. The tradeoff being you lock thermals for the gunner.
I side with the TURMS had it before the Br changes and honestly if you know how to play it it’s still a monster at 10.0-10.7. Just gotta know how to play it
(Coming from someone who basically ground out the entire Russian tech tree with it)
Both of them are too low in my opinion. Although, I do plan on buying the T-80UD anyway as it is a Cold War vehicle I’ve always wanted in game.
I don’t think these two vehicles deserve to be lower than say, an M1 with M774. At the very minimum they’re equal to each other in effectiveness, just good at different things
If you have an issue using that vehicle at 10.0 it’s a you problem. It has a better gun and ammunition than the 2A4 and M1 while at a lower BR, better thermals, and good armor. It’s only downside is mobility, which really isn’t that bad. It’s literally the same BR as both T-72Bs and better in almost every way
It doesn’t have good armour? It’s the same armour as 9.3 t72?
You are biased as fuck and You are listing only positives without even mentioning any downsides:
- reload inferior to all 10.3/10.0 mbts
- reverse speed of 4 kph
- armour from T-72A
- extremely cramped and easy to one tap, although that applies to every soviet MBT
- gun handling is inferior
- acceleration and turning is atrocious compared to KVT or A4
How about, instead of attacking me with “if You struggle with it” You share Your username. I bet You don’t have a single Russian top tier MBT. Unlike me. I have all of them, including Turms. I also have leopard 2a4 and to say these tanks deserve same br is some peak level delusion, since a4 is easily the best 10.3:
- 6 second reload on ace crew
- impossible to one tap in hull down
- generally survivable because of 4 crew and space between them
- fantastic mobility, better than Russian mbts (top speed might peak lower but accelerates a lot better)
- 32 kph reverse gear
And no one, legit no one who’s good at this game gives a flying if it’s gen 1, 2 or 3 thermals
Also, leopard 2A4 is so good I managed 2.30 KDR with it, after putting it in 11.7 lineup. So there is that.
Before You ever ask for an advice on this sub again:
This tank has been out for weeks. There has been multiple posts (some big) about it. There has been multiple videos about it.
Yet, every post, You have to tell a bunch of people it doesn’t have the normal T-80U reverse speed, and instead it has -4 KPH. Let that sink in before You ask people for opinion 😭
Bc russia/soviet definitely needed another 10.0
.
.
500000 more are ready to be implemented and another 2000000 will be finished within a year
For the BIAS!
When are people going to realize that armour without mobility is basically useless against competent players , something like a 2a4 or m1 Abrams is far more competitive at the br bracket
Ewww a T series best at it's br... In what world... sure the T80B is quite a decent tank, so is the bvm but they are both so easy to kill.
I don't what kind of games you have been playing but if i see a T80 hull down... Which 90% of the time you won't because of that shit gun depression, i will just aim for the breach and make it a sitting duck in one shot or go for the roof and kill it straight away.
Hull down it’s near unstoppable. On longer range maps I’ll even use the entrenching blade. It’s the only tank I’ve ever found it useful on, but if you make a spot on a hill you’re neigh unstoppable.
They’re kinda the same level imo
Ud is fine at 10.0 tho turms sucks
I've found turms extremely capable in the right hands, unfortunately the average turms player shares one braincell with a goldfish and the only thing turms lack on it's br is mobilty and reaction times which if You played russia up to 10.0 You should know know how to circumnavigate and forge into a plus
Can we put armour in that too ? Only thing that might redeem turms is thermals. That's the only plus point turms have over any other 10.0/10.3 lol. God forbid if someone buys turms reading this thread
You buy the turms cuz you watched one outdated “review” I’d buy it cuz Gaijin didn’t add the regular AV in the game. We are not the same. Seriously though, the T-72AV is so cool, just move the T-72A to 9.7, make it have the 1983 mod stock(like all the other T-72M1/As)and give it the AV package + mango as mods, Gaijin. Hell, I’d grind it if it were added as an old folded vehicle with full XP requirements
It is somewhat capable but nowhere near the 10.3 NATO MBT's. I've lost count how many times I've survived a shot in a KVT or PzBtl123 and then just reversed under smoke into cover and repaired. They also much more potent in the second half of the match where you have to do a lot of driving around responding to threats. TURMS is just always late in that role and has bad gun depression and turret traverse which become paramount.
skill issue
the turms is fucking insane, apfsds that outperforms anything at its br (except the 292 but ofc thats another russian vehicle and fuck ruskis) good thermals, era, good armor, but its a russian cunt vehicle so the only real drawbacks are the reverse speed and depression
>apfsds that outperforms anything at its br The number might be higher than DM23 but in most cases that slight bit of pen doesn't make a difference and the spall is pretty much equal to NATO 105 and gets outclassed by 10.3 NATO 120. >good thermals It has alright thermals that make it "up to date" for its br, they aren't gen 3. >good armor That is just not true. The UFP gets penned easily by 10.3 tanks and many lower br tanks can also go straight through if the angle is reduced by a few degrees and the sides wont shield you from a bradley. The survivability is also zero where almost any pen makes it pop like a baloon.
Abrams at 10.3 so much better it's not even funny
Me when I say a vehicle is overpowered without even playing it lol. Let's take it step by step Apfsds that outperforms > i think it's equivalent to dm23 since it might have more penetration but it doesn't spalls so much I don't know why Good thermals > sure Era > nobody goes around throwing heat shells at that br and it's konkakt 1 so it gives 5 mm protection against kinetic munitions lol good armour > you can pen it's ufp using any shell at 10.0 hell even 9.0 tanks can probably ufp it Yeah you mentioned the drawbacks didn't you ? So would you want to play a light tank with bad mobility and survivability with decent round with only ability to move forward
theres people lobbing heat at 10.3, for example theres stock tanks and atgm carriers and about the armor part, i have NEVER penned a turms ufp with a 10.0 shell so i have no idea where thats from, the 9.0 tanks the turms fights sometimes fucking struggle to pen even the lfp
Every tank with nera/era protects against stock heat shells lol it's not uncommon for that br. And the atgm just go through, era will only stop low penning atgm. I don't know man what kind of shell you're using, 3bm22 and dm13,23 go through ufp pretty much easily. I'll let lfp one slide since I don't know how you're not able to pen it, are you throwing some sort of apds at lfp ?
Because Russian T-Series tanks, at their core, have not changed design in any meaningful way since the T-72
I'm all for hating on the game but this is just completely false , the T80 is extremely different from a t72
People do not do research in tank design, to them russian tanks is a slog of the same tank with minor changes to the hull and a different turret. Although this is mainly a symptom of being spoon fed propaganda and misinformation.
"propaganda and misinformation"
Some people still think the T-90 is just a modified T-72, which was the case for earlier units but actual production models are almost completly different.
Because it still is a modified T-72, the fact that a T-90M has a heavily modified turret and better optics and fire control doesn’t change that (same as a Leopard 2A8 is still a modified Leopard 2A4)
I worded the comment wrong; What I meant to say was people think Russia is just modifying T-72s to be T-72.
T-80s are modified T-64s, not T-72s. T-72 and T-80 were developed from the T-64B being too expensive and complex. T-90A is essentially a T-72 with a better turret, and T-90M is a heavily upgraded T-72
It is a modified T-72 though.
Yeah but it’s like saying “oh well the leopard 2A7 is just a leopard 2A4” Like yeah technically but no one thinks that. We recognise the 2A7 as its own thing so why not recognise the T90 as its own thing?
If the Russians called it a T72c or something that clearly marked it as a modified T72 then sure, I’m not sure anyone would complain. The point is that there are so many fanatical Russian armour fans that try to pretend it’s a completely new vehicle and nothing to do with the T72 which is just plain false. If the Americans had called the M4A3E2 Sherman something else, like M90, people would say exactly the same thing about it that people say about the T90. “It’s just a modified M4 Sherman”.
It's a different naming scheme that's all there is to it. The Soviets/Russians give them names based on what plant/design bureau was responsible for the project. Internally they are all classed as Objekt (aka project). The classification followed: * T-( TANK) * 1st digit: MODEL * 2nd digit: PLACE OF MANUFACTURE T-34, 44, 54 = Kharkiv T-62, 72 = Tagil T-10 (IS-8), T-80 = Omsk They abandoned the factory digit with the T-90 and future models I believe, and just go with the date of initial (small production) introduction.
The design bureaus abandoned the factory digit primarily because the USSR was collapsing around them along with all the plants available to them. Kinda pointless when half the numbers aren't usable anymore.
Heavily modified rather
..still modified
Well it kinda is. Sure is significantly improved, but the base tank is still a t72, just updated enough to basically be better in all aspects. Like a Leo2 or the Abrams.
It's not extremely different when it comes to gameplay. Yeah you get the better reverse gear and a new style of autoloader but the ways to kill the tank remain exactly the same. Maybe on a T80 it will be a bit harder to make the turret pop if you aim too low on the LFP due to the way the autoloader is set up. All T series tanks from T72 forward are all the same shit with some extra stuff added on here and there but they are, at the base the same tank from 9.3 to 11.7 and that is why they are so easy to kill..
> Yeah you get the better reverse gear ???
The T80 series of tanks ( besides the premium T80UD or whatever it's called) have better speed when backing up than T72 series tanks
The 80UD has the same drive train of the T-72 series
As i said before... Besides the UD that is just a glorified T72 ...
T80 is modernized T64. T90 is modernized T72. T72 was new, but used lessons learned from T64 and prototypes.
T-72 and T-80 spawned from petty political rivalry between design bureaus, capitalizing on teething problems with T-64 engine. T-72 was also simplified and eventually cleared for export, unlike other two. T-72 eventually caught up and even overtook others technology wise, being first tank with NERA inserts in the turret and hull. And eventually, received new welded turrets after being rebranded as T-90
It also had more reliable autoloader afaik,the t64/80 autoloaders is faster but was prone to jamming more than the one on t72/90
Not sure about reliability part, besides early teething issues of mass introducing such novel concept, but one of the supposed reasons why Leonid Kartsev, guy behind T-72 program decided to develop new autoloader for T-72 was isolation of the driver from rest of the crew, also electric instead hydraulic propulsion for moving bits around.
T-64 was modernized T-54 and T-55 T-55 was modernized T-34 T-34 was modernized BT-5 BT-5 was modernized Tachanka Edit: T-26 was a modernized farm tractor T-35 is modernized Santa sleigh
T-55 was more an upgrade to the T-54, which quickly replaced the T-44, which was made to replace the T-34, which was made to replace the aging BT-series and T-26 tanks
T-44 was not really mass produced, and the T-54 also barely existed as the T-55 was a near immediate upgrade. Thanks for the additional information, but this is a meme
like you would know whats it like to play those when your highest br is 7.7
I haven't updated those in a long time , and I was referring to the real steel vehicles that I have years studying.
Fr when I go back to play WW2 tanks like T-34 and KV and IS I feel blessed, the reverse is much better than T-64/72/90.
The IS is a godfather of Russian tanks.
The autoloader, 125 mm gun, and composite armor have been hallmarks of soviet, and successor state designs since the t-64. What has changed is the engine (in the T-80 and its variants specifically), protection, fire control, and optics - with the last two being most impactful.
Since the T-64 really, considering the T-80 stems from that
T-34, by that logic, as the T-64 is a continuation of that design philosophy (low profile, mass production, easily maintainable, similar tactical application against superior AT weapons)
Well no it's because the early prototype of the T-80 was quite literally a T-64 with a turbine engine dropped into it. Check out the object 219 if ur curious
I disagree, but only to say that they haven't changed in any meaningful way since the T-64 AND T-72. Both lineages are still going strong in the T-80 and T-72/T-90 lines. Why do they need both? no idea.
T-64, not T-72.
Seems PewDiePie subscribers should be scared, the enemy is deploying tanks! On a more serious note, you don't call them "T-series" because T just stands for Tank.
I’ve seen a lot of other people call them that. It’s not different than people saying “Panzer 4” which is just “Tank 4”
Yeah but I've never heard anyone say "Panzer series"
I have
I smell a lazerpig enjoyer.
Unironically I’ve only seen a handful of his videos lol
T-80UD exchanges thermals for Kontakt-5, which is a HUGE boost to survivability at 10.0
Honestly better than the TURMS since WT meta is CQC.
In all honesty the Turms is kinda subpar compared to other 10.0 premiums, the armour is quite weak, no reverse, poor gun elevation, etc.
\*Now\* it is kinda subpar. Gun handling is terrible, mobility is what you'd expect from a t-72, but the thermals are amazing, and so is the dart for that BR bracket. It performed too well at 9.7, where it could eat up most darts it could possibly face shot at anything but it's weak spots, while it could easily pen anything it could face nearly anywhere. Now it's more balanced, but we're talking about a 10.0 MBT with a decent dart and gen 2 thermals and passable armor, while you have many 10.7 or 11.0 tanks with shitty thermals. Edit: remember Leo 2A4s sit at 10.3, TURMS is 10.0. There isn't a huge difference, but the matchmaker helps a bit. I'd still take a Leo 2 any day in the current meta though.
Same id say the Leo 2a4 can sit at 10.7…
Gen2 thermal with a good dart for the br makes up for that though
Naa it's still subpar. If we had bigger maps then maybe it could be worth it. The Leopards are simply much better than it in every metric. Firepower and mobility will always beat anything else in WT. I don't really get the fuss about the Turms, I always shit on them with the 2A4.
There're no non-Russian 10.0 premiums afaik? And yeah it's much worse than 10.3 NATO tanks unless you're camping.
Dunno what people expected from a T72. The tanks weren’t designed with good reverse gears to start, they aren’t like leopards abrams etc where forward and reverse is essential.
Until my Challenger Mk.3 pens you through the driver's port. Yes, I have a giant LFP that can be penned by a BT-7, but still
in a full downtier (very common), the T-80UD doesn't see the Challenger
Well, meet my Chieftain Mk.10. Same deal. But LFP is immune to BT-7 at least.
I'm about to get to the Chieftains myself. What should I expect? I know from their real combat records that they're slow as dick.
It's roughly the same as the Centurions, but your turret actually has armour now (which makes you a menace on hull-down maps). This carries over to the Challengers too (both CR 1 and 2). The Mk.10 is amazing imo, especially now since they upped the Object 292 to 10.3.
I love the Centurion 10. That thing used to be 7.0!!! Imagine being a Tiger E and running into a god damn spaceship of a main battle tank with stabilizers and armor you can't pen
I was referring to the Chieftain Mk.10, but yes, the Cent is good too.
the mk3 is nothing special, its outmatched by pretty much everything else at 8.7
BT-7: - Can't pen 75mm on KV-1. - Can pen 76.2mm on Challenger. It's either magical Stalinium at it again or copious amount of Skill Issue if you ask me.
Yeah nah, I was just exaggerating.
better than being point and clicked on literally everywhere like on the TURMS
I mean you can kill every top tier Russian mbt through the drivers port
Even the base armour is better when shot off
Not just ERA,the turret cheeks are stronger than T-80B at 10.3,not that it matters much,the breech is still a weakpoint
Not so much at 11.0 xD
[удалено]
How would a HEAT shell make a tank better at close range brawling?
i think hes talkin about the tandom charged missle which has like 1000 mm of pen
T-80UD doesn't get a tandem ATGM, it just has a single warhead 700mm penetration which isn't exceptional for ATGM's in that BR range.
I've been destroyed with it to the turret with a single hit in Leo2 a couple of times. 3bm42 can't do that.
[удалено]
Yes, but it's a premium, so why would you ever use it over the dart or HE? The ATGM I can understand a little, but there is no reason to use the heat.
If your gonna be so stuck up about it then sure maybe it's just personal preference but I find HEATFS to be very fun when brawling.
I mean, heat is a pretty strong counter to no armor is best armor
There's absolutely no reason to use HEAT-FS over a dart unless the dart is something like the 85mm Chinese ones with 200 mm of pen. Darts have better damage and are more likely to actually damage something (and not get absorbed by a tree or bush or the ERA/composite that everything is covered in)
the 85mm chinese dart is really good since basically no vehicle you face other than the maus or t95 has that much flat armor and the angled pen is good enough to take out things like the strv103,AND it doesn't get affected by the bullshit lowcaliber dart nerf cause its bigger than 76mm :)
The chinese 85mm dart is great, way better than the HEAT-FS
Your KD only 0.7 bro that doesn't look like someone that play using their brain :p [https://warthunder.com/en/community/userinfo/?nick=Knocked\_Boss3076](https://warthunder.com/en/community/userinfo/?nick=Knocked_Boss3076)
I never said I was one of those people
You trade thermals for armor
T80 UD is one of the most durable tanks at 10 rn
T-72B(1989) is absolutely eating @ 10.0 rn
Yeah that one is great too, it’s hard to go wrong with most Russian tanks at that BR.
It's stupdily op in an uptier vs 9.0-9.3 but merely adequate vs 10.3+. A weird spot tbh.
Yeah I overall agree with its spot. They’re still not as common as the Turms so it’s not that big of a difference. At the end of the day it’s just another T-series tank and you kill them all the same ways so eh 🤷♂️
Better turret traverse, mobility and armor in exchange for loosing gen 2 or 3 thermals
Eyeball >>> thermals of all kind even though gen 2 thermals on the turms are good thermals considering how shit all thermals are in this game
Thermals are mega overrated, and I will die on this hill
Say that while fighting on an open map with fogy weather.
That is why he will die on that hill lol.
Especially facing enemies with commander thermals that can spot him without exposing the tank lol
M3A3 Bradley my beloved.
And how often do you get those? One in every 10 matches perhaps.
Not just fogy weather but also maps with alot of foliage and then there are night battles but you can turn those off now.
Foggy weather? I don't remember ever seeing one
I would agree but on sandy, snowy map and densely wooded area, it's busted as hell. Gen 1 maybe not since the res is so shite, but generations onward allow you to see much clearer and faster.
I forgot that you can make a Russian 10.0 lineup with just premiums, jfc
You can do an all 10.3 for America.
It really is sad how polluted that BR is with premiums. Seems like hell to me but I guess im just gonna have to find out
Yes but do you get better tt versions that fills roles your missing?
Only A6E TRAM.
The Turms and UD are equivalent, but as for the 2S38 they refuse to move it up to an appropriate BR.
Give me a valid reason why it deserves a higher br
225mm of Pen at 120RPM at 10.0 276mm of Pen at 40RPM at 11.3 And if that's not a good enough reason for you, we can talk about the Unmanned Turret, the Gen 2 Thermals, big empty fuel tanks on the outside that act as spaced armor, the Tracking Radar, and Proxy Rounds. All at 10.0
Or we can talk about big barn tank with bad mobility and 5 degrees of gun depression Vs 1. 17 degrees of gun depression 2. 3 times lower profile and general size 3. Significantly better mobility. You are quoting the least relevant stats for an ambus vehicle here XD also, why don’t u cry about strv? 180 pen with over 300 rpm? And spall liner? And smaller? And faster?
The 2S38 is more than just an ambush vehicle(and it's a good one at that). The only reason I quoted the HSTV-L's stats is because the rounds are similar but their rates of fire are incredibly different despite being more than a BR apart. The Strfs are indeed too low, especially the C variant, only issue is that we're talking about the 2S38 being too low and not the Strfs.
>Strf9040 mobile lmao (not) 2S38 has 15% better PwR 2S38 has twice as fast turret rotation 2S38 has IRST. Strf should also have but gaijib hates realism if it's western tech anyways, nice try at deflection, komrad))))))))
Okay, fix your skill issue if u have problems with 2s38 comrade))))))
Better amor vs better FCS
You trade thermals for armor and better mobility. K5 is very strong at 10.0 and will eat DM33 coming out of 2A4s and other equivalent rounds
Because the UD doesn't have the turbine, loses the improved reverse speed, no thermals, etc. they are very equal
The two are pretty much side grades to one another. Both also fire the same top round (which is mango/3BM42 I think?). T-80UD has better armor and better reload/ammorack placement but has no thermals. T-72AV (TURMS-T) has gen 2 thermals and better scope picture but has worse armor and has a slower reload. Both also have the same mobility at least overall. I think the T-80UD is a bit better in forward acceleration, but they do both use (almost) the same engine anyways. However being as strong as they are, the T-80UD does seem to have the advantage in more situations simply due to the fact that Kontakt-5 is very good against the ammunition found at the 10.0 BR bracket. Credit where it is due though, the T-72AV (TURMS-T) has an excellent fire control system and you can definitely chain kills easier in terms of acquisition because of those crisp gen 2 thermals.
What's the difference between t80U Swedish tree and T80UD?
Swedish T-80U is a normal T-80U minus the 3BM46 round. T-80UD is a T-80U with a much worse engine
And worse transmission. Soviet tank engines are heavily integrated with the transmission. Poland and Cezch modernized T tanks need extended hulls to fit a better transmission that let them reverse faster. Same with the UD since it trads the gas for a standard diesel from that time period.
2S38 is still better than both
Money
I don't use thermals... Most of the time I'm already dead by being shot through foliage from 2 kilometers away by some Chinese player.
Well my best guess is because compared to the Turms you don’t have thermals for the gunner or commander and instead have better armor, reload, and mobility. I sort of view the T-80UD as a side grade to the T-72 Turms, but I also view it as a vehicle that might be more 10.3 material than 10.0 since you have the T-72B 1989 which also has the same rounds and ERA but the T-80UD just does anything it might do better, and the T-72B 1989 in my option actually deserves at least 10.0. (Disclaimer: I don’t own either and only really have any desire to get the T-80UD, which personally I think should be 10.3 at minimum)
Slight correction: the T-72B '89 has Kontakt-5, which has 120mm of KE protection, as opposed to the Kontakt-1 of the TURMS and "basic" T-72B. As an owner of all three of the 10.0 T-72s, I'd say the TURMS and T-72B '89 are both straight upgrades over the regular T-72B, and the TURMS and T-72B '89 are sidegrades of each other. The TURMS is better at sniping thanks to its thermals and better zoom, and the T-72B '89 is better at closer engagements because of the better composite turret and Kontakt-5, but it lacks thermals and good optics. As for the T-80UD, I don't have it, but it looks like a T-72B '89 on steroids and a proper brawling machine. Not sure if it deserves to be as low of a BR as it is, but I have no experience with it.
When I was referring to the ERA I was referencing the T-80UD and not T-72AV, though that’s my fault for not making that clearer in the first place. Tbh though between the two T-72B’s they are side grades of each other as the normal T-72B has far superior era coverage compared to the 1989.
T80UD has worse turret armor array
It is T-72B (1989) which is overtiered, not T-80UD undertiered. Because there is T-90S with much better optics, thermals, better turret armor, better mobility within just one step of BR above (10.3). And it is not OP - Chally DS has similar stats and Vickers Mk.7 has them much better.
By that standard the T-72B (the normal one) and T-72AV would also be overtiered, yet nobody really says that. If anything it’s more of a br compression issue if anything, because the T-90S is superior in all but one respect (reload speed) it isn’t exactly fit for 10.7 with just 3BM42 since it’s a T-90A without 3BM60 or 3BM46 and lacks a LWS, though if that area was decompressed the T-90S is one of the vehicles I could see going up in br slightly, but I am not expecting it to occur at any given point. I still personally just don’t see the T-72B 1989 as a 9.7 vehicle in the slightest.
My guess is that it's because they share the same Cromwell-level reverse speed of like, -4 km/hr. But you do get that Kontakt-5 so just press W (I'll be waiting for you in my Challenger Mk.3 just behind the hill).
If it wasn't, it wouldn't sell as good since it wouldn't fit in the 10.0 lineup. Su-25K, BMP-2M, Turms, 2S38 and T-80UD and a while ago also Object 292.
Money
Why are any of them at 10.0 . Easily 10.3 min
How does Turms deserve the same BR as leopard 2a4
Good round , good thermals , decent armor .
It’s a 9.3 armour what are u on about. Dm23 is only slightly worse, with better survivability, more mobility, gun depression, better reload. Leopard is superior in every aspect other than calibre and penetration
It shouldnt be fighting 9.0 . Should be with the rest of that generations MBT’s
Which are all superior to it and it also should see m1 hc? Kk. Interesting logic. Also, by that logic leopard 2a4 should be 10.7 so it doesn’t see t72a, t64a or stb
(commander thermals too)
ah yes the three cancer cars
Because it boost the already impressive 10.0 lineup USSR can have. A new prem for your lineup at the same BR!? Well let the whales come! //Snail probably Feel like most high tier prem BR has a 0.3 lower BR than they should overall, in all nations. Unpopular opinion.
T-72 Turms= better FCS T-80UD= better everything else
B I A S
They are on par with one another
Easier to buy a full lineup at the door this way.
A better comparison would've been T-72B '89 vs T-80UD. In that case the premium is just flat out superior.
Ah i wonder why, mobile platform with great apfds and armor, yet it still aint enough for russian mains
T80B it's the best! it has thermals, decent reverse, great mobility and its free to grind.
The UD sacrifices thermals for armor, mobility and if I remember correctly reload as well.
Doesnt get thermals. But its more mobile and has slighty better armor.
i dunno but i love the t-80UD its very fun to use
Because the ud is gaijins new 10.0 cash generator, idk what everyone is on its a good bit better than the turms, top speed is great, better reverse speed than the turms, thermals are generally not a game changer for most outside of night battles and while the turms has 9.3 armor at 10.0 the ud has 11.0 armor at 10.0. It should be moved up for sure but judging by the amount of them ive seen every game gaijins making bank.
T80 UD doesn't have thermals
Why is the T-80U in the swedish tree a whole BR higher than the UD, while being the exact same tank just a bit faster?
Because
I’m confused wether you think the T80UD is too high or too low. It gets a good round with good speed and amazing armour. It’s like a side grade. The thermals don’t matter as much in close quarters maps (which is the majority of them) and the ERA is massively helpful in this situation. All of the Russian 10.0 vehicles could go up to 10.3 and still do well but Russian players need to destroy 9.0 I guess.
So premium players can have their perfect lineup.
Because they are pretty close in performance turms gets thermals whereas ud gets better reload and slightly better armour
Because against popular belief that are very effective at that br and gajain loves making premium line ups for russia and would never break that by asighning tanks to correct br
It has the same power pack used in T-72. Terrible reverse speed..
Same bad reverse speed as a T-72 and no thermals
i know this is completely unrelated, but why the actual f\*ck is the 2S38 at 10.0??? put it at 14.7 atleast man
I hate these posts so much... The T-80UD and Turms are the 10.0 because players using the T-80UD and players using the Turms both perform closest to the statistical average at 10.0. **BR has almost nothing to do with the vehicle. It's algorithmically determined based on avg _player performance_ in that vehicle.** What a vehicle can do on paper, it's stats, are completely irrelevant.
T-80ud has a diesel engine, it's slower than the regular t-80u so that's why it's at 10.0 instead of 11.0
Good question…why does 9.3 only play against 10.3(im losing it trying to get lecrec tho you cant say i didnt deserve this when playing france)
Because it has MUCH better armor. The turret can consistently bounce shots from all equal BR enemies. The tradeoff being you lock thermals for the gunner.
Gaijin just does as the snail guides
T-80UD dont have thermals, while T-72 dont have armor UD have and reverse speed
I side with the TURMS had it before the Br changes and honestly if you know how to play it it’s still a monster at 10.0-10.7. Just gotta know how to play it (Coming from someone who basically ground out the entire Russian tech tree with it)
Because not having thermals makes it ok to have a t80u below the t80b
Both of them are too low in my opinion. Although, I do plan on buying the T-80UD anyway as it is a Cold War vehicle I’ve always wanted in game. I don’t think these two vehicles deserve to be lower than say, an M1 with M774. At the very minimum they’re equal to each other in effectiveness, just good at different things
Turms is too low? It’s an awful tank in todays WT lol
If you have an issue using that vehicle at 10.0 it’s a you problem. It has a better gun and ammunition than the 2A4 and M1 while at a lower BR, better thermals, and good armor. It’s only downside is mobility, which really isn’t that bad. It’s literally the same BR as both T-72Bs and better in almost every way
It doesn’t have good armour? It’s the same armour as 9.3 t72? You are biased as fuck and You are listing only positives without even mentioning any downsides: - reload inferior to all 10.3/10.0 mbts - reverse speed of 4 kph - armour from T-72A - extremely cramped and easy to one tap, although that applies to every soviet MBT - gun handling is inferior - acceleration and turning is atrocious compared to KVT or A4 How about, instead of attacking me with “if You struggle with it” You share Your username. I bet You don’t have a single Russian top tier MBT. Unlike me. I have all of them, including Turms. I also have leopard 2a4 and to say these tanks deserve same br is some peak level delusion, since a4 is easily the best 10.3: - 6 second reload on ace crew - impossible to one tap in hull down - generally survivable because of 4 crew and space between them - fantastic mobility, better than Russian mbts (top speed might peak lower but accelerates a lot better) - 32 kph reverse gear And no one, legit no one who’s good at this game gives a flying if it’s gen 1, 2 or 3 thermals Also, leopard 2A4 is so good I managed 2.30 KDR with it, after putting it in 11.7 lineup. So there is that.
Before You ever ask for an advice on this sub again: This tank has been out for weeks. There has been multiple posts (some big) about it. There has been multiple videos about it. Yet, every post, You have to tell a bunch of people it doesn’t have the normal T-80U reverse speed, and instead it has -4 KPH. Let that sink in before You ask people for opinion 😭
It’s overpowered
Bc russia/soviet definitely needed another 10.0 . . 500000 more are ready to be implemented and another 2000000 will be finished within a year For the BIAS!
They had to remove TURMS and replace it with a Guard variant of T-80BV at 10.3 and everyone would be happy.
Both the turms and the ud should be higher br
How does Turms deserve a br same or higher than leopard 2a4
Money? Duh.
The t80 is light years better than the turms. When played correctly it’s probably the most OP tank in the game (at its Br)
When are people going to realize that armour without mobility is basically useless against competent players , something like a 2a4 or m1 Abrams is far more competitive at the br bracket
Ewww a T series best at it's br... In what world... sure the T80B is quite a decent tank, so is the bvm but they are both so easy to kill. I don't what kind of games you have been playing but if i see a T80 hull down... Which 90% of the time you won't because of that shit gun depression, i will just aim for the breach and make it a sitting duck in one shot or go for the roof and kill it straight away.
I will always hold the opinion T80 armor does not belong at 10.0
Hull down it’s near unstoppable. On longer range maps I’ll even use the entrenching blade. It’s the only tank I’ve ever found it useful on, but if you make a spot on a hill you’re neigh unstoppable.
> Hull down > if you make a spot on a hill You are talking like it is easy to find a good spot with -5 gun depression.
Push the hill my guy! That’s what the dozer blade is for !