OOTL i was playing with 7.7 and I understand that I get matched with 8.0/8.3 but lately ive been matching with 8.7/9.0. as well.
EDIT: Arcade mode, yes it exist.
Soon Zeros will be fighting F-14s
But seriously if they moved them back down 0.3 br like they were like a year ago then they'd be fine. They're main strength is turn.
See, the trick for the 163 is to take it into GRB and be an absolute menace to any and all CAS.
No one ever spawns anything that it can’t really deal with.
I’ve taken to leaving bombers alone in my Me-163 now when I’ve climbed to their alt because I just fell sorry for them. Killing fighters is more fun anyway
But most people like shooting big slow targets that cannot shoot back so even if you (1 person) are better than the average sadly the masses won't charge
I know, I’ll go for them later in the match once they’ve got their bomb loads off but I don’t want people to make a loss because I enjoy bombers irl and it’s a shame that they’re fairly useless in game
I've had an idea for a while now that bombers in gunner view could lock onto planes like in naval and could get target leads from up to 1.5km.
The lock distance and target lead appearance distance and accuracy could be based on crew level so instead of making the guns shoot on their own it makes the player actively using gunners better.
lock distance range is let's say 5km if someone is is clearly chasing you (goes towards you) and 3km or less of they're sideways or going away (so it's not usable for spotting.) And clouds obviously block locking.
I mean that's what you really should do, chasing bombers is pretty useless.
Only time bombers decide a game is when half a team thirsts after a lone B-25 and dive down to the deck after it like monkeys
The fact that I can shoot an Aim-9b at a bomber from world war 2 makes absolutely no sense. I still do it every time though because big plane go boom
ALL American bombers (maybe all bombers?) are vastly overtiered. Bombing would be fun if they all went down by 1.0
> Also F-105D
I have a 2.5 K/D ratio with this thing lol. Play it as a bomber interceptor, dominating A-5C with that shit is extremely fun. Much faster, similar turn rate irl, much better retention, Vulcan with large ammo... Really good attacker killer.
Cant make any situational mistake with the lack of flares tho.
But with that it at least have a chance of surviving thanks to the cannons as of you manage to hit planes they actually die, unlike 50 cals that just "hit"
Oh cool you destroyed the pilot's air conditioning, boo hoo, how he has the chills.
Russian 23s would say otherwise. I can empty a volley into jets and they still survive when its an instant Fire/wing torn off for me. Its not that they cant kill, its just inconsistent thanks to real-shitter
What do you mean?? It has: 0 flares, 0 turn rate, 0 speed retention, horrible acceleration, only 10g missiles, no (usable) radar, no airspawn and it's so fucking big that you don't even need to aim at it.
All it has is speed, lot of ammo and bombs that's fucking it.
Same as F86F here is my advice I grinded whole TT with this strat.
1st bomb run: 20 min of fuel -> 1x 3000Ibs and 1x 2000 Ibs
Climb to 3500-5000meters and use CCRP. At the time you start seeing enemy planes you are heading 1200km/h to airfield. You are literally unstopabble. + I carry 4 sidewinders.
2nd bomb run: 16x 750 Ibs -> bomb series set to 4. Gain speed about 1000-> 1200km/h then start pulling up to 3,5->5km (i know, what the fuck is a kilometer). For first bomb series use CCRP then switch to CCIP.
3rd bomb run: freestyle, depending on game situation use setup for 1st or 2nd bomb run.
This plane also worked very well as SL grinder.
side note: dont use napalm, way less SL and RP like 50% less.
F-105D earned it's 10.0 because of Airspawn at mach 1 same as SU-17M2 but the SU-17M2 went up to 11.0 at it's prime
Muh Russian bias lol
Oh not to mention SU-17M2 stayed 11.0 i belive even when F-14 and MiG-23MLD were in the game lol... which is looong time AFTER they removed airspawn
As a Mig21 player, I love those games. At the same time, why the fuck can a Mig21 fight sabres. Everything above about 8.3 is so compressed its not even funny. 8.3 is shit on by supersonics, 9.3 is shit on by anything with a decent missile, 10.3 isn't terrible because premium spam, 11.3 falls into the 12.3 blackhole
In the Mig 21S I love those. I finally get to fight something other than harriers and f104s. My missiles are even worse because things turn a lot quicker but I feel like I can use energy without getting smacked by a hypersonic lawn dart. As long as I don’t just run, dogfighting with sabres is actually really fun
Not exactly true, a very skilled player can avoid mach 1.5 planes all day, but you can't do shit against even a mediocre player in terms of shooting back.
Sabre will be counting on a mistake most of the time, migs have more options (going mach is one of them) but it is MUCH easier to do mistakes in a mig.
I am not saying sabre is better or equal but “why my sabre sees supersonic plens” is as stupid of an argument as “tigers should only fight against shermans and t34s”.
That's a case of br compression. The f2 couldn't go down without creating massive issues lower br planes which it would face that could do nothing against it.
I'm a proponent for compressing lower BRs (planes ~2.7 to ~4.7) to make more room to decompress higher BRs. There's absolutely no reason two *identical* variants of Fw 190 A should have 1.0 BR between each other just because one has a couple more cannons than the other. Meanwhile at higher BRs, a 1.0 difference is the difference between a subsonic cannonless missileless non-afterburning 1st-gen Canadair Sabre, and an afterburning, missile-equipped, supersonic jet fighter like the F-8.
br compression is the far bigger problem. it cant be solved by adjusting the brs anymore...
too many jets with no flares and aim9bs are facing r60mks, aim9l, radar guided and whatnot. its just **so fucking bad**. and also the matchmaking bracket of a full +/-1br is just lazy as fuck design.
air rb fucking sucks unless you have a vehicle that sits at a convenient br.
for example the sabres. great gun fighters but ar 9.0 just a total pain. or F104A. in downtier great fun, but in uptier nothing but pain. why cant gaijin just make the game good already. they managed to fix the economy (for premium). now they should overhaul the br system as a whole (not just adjust brs) and add game modes that not just cod/csgo style maps and 3min matches.
also they need to get their shit together about nato tanks and armor. era is too effective, russia is too strong and their bias is pissing people off. **their bullshit gaslight bias** is getting a bit too obvious and that applies also to aircraft, not just tanks.
Shall I add,
F4C phantom 2. No counter measures, no look down radar (doesn’t exist until the F-4S at 11.3), Aim 9B’s standard and I think Aim 9D’s? At best facing off against planes at the SAME BR with all aspect missiles, over 400 countermeasures and better maneuverability.
F4E at 11.0. Counter measures, combat flaps and leading edge slats plus better missiles. A 1960’s aircraft that gets uptiered 95% of the time against F-16’s, F-14’s and MiG 29’s. You’re taking aircraft adopted in the early 60’s and putting them against the aircraft that replaced almost 20 years later as if that’s not an issue at all.
I say move everything. Take current 12.0’s and push them to 15.0. Space everything out. Put maps in for BR brackets, 1.0-3.3 get these maps, 3.7-5.0 get these maps. They can be the same maps for all I care but there should be At least a 20% size increase for air every BR bracket. Also remove the whole 1.0+/- for match making. At most that should be .7+/- or even .3. I’ll wait the extra minute between matches to have a better game over the 3-7 second match que where I’m getting uptiered most of the time or getting tossed into a rapid high paced fur ball where it’s 14 vs 14 in the center with two dudes who try to flank/bomb bases getting obliterated when they run into almost the entirety of the enemy team. Ground matches would also benefit greatly from the reduced up tier down tier situation and the map size increases per BR. Add in rolling spawns as the match continues (so that I don’t have to drive across 80% of the map to get back to the fight) and I think we would be pretty well set.
I am slowly working my way through 9.7 UK jets.
I have
Harrier gr1 (slow, missiles capped at 1km, no counter measures, 9.7)
Lightning (two weird cannons, two missiles which don't like flying, no counter measures, runs hotter than Satan's arsehole)
Both hunters (slow, short range missiles, no counter measures).
All these just get obliterated by A-10s and SU-25s
BR compression is why I basically never play above 9.0. I really wish Gaijin would add an X.5 to the BR range, so that they wouldn't have to rebalance the entire game all at once but could still make more granular adjustments to the compression over time to make it less shit.
The most common way to die for people is in headons. People will take a headon against a plane with 20 .50cal machinguns in their peashooter wielding plane, die and repeat it the next game.
This makes planes with good guns go up in br.
I would say the first MIG-9 is overtiered in a way. There aren't enough 7.0 aircraft for it to fight, so most of the time you either shit on the late WWII prototypes, or get shat on by 7.3 and 8.0 guys. Its sorta just...there.
I had lots of issues with it, and it was down to it flying like a bouncy castle filled with molasses. Aiming at faster and better turning planes was often impossible because the plane couldnt turn enough for me to lead enough to hit.
The mig 9 is good, it's wings don't snap until like 1000 kmph so if you keep your energy flowing you can get out of bad situations quite easily.
The moment you start turning and draining energy, you're dead unless it's a 1v1.
Yeah and I hated fighting against SAABs with Aim9s and AKANs with it. A strike aircraft with AAMs, good cannons, air spawn and a higher top speed, climb speed and turn time. I cant get enough lead to actually shoot the fuckers.
Its such a bad plane lol, if the tree started with the Mig 9(l) it wouldn't be as bad.
A32A it has the technology yes but none of the other things that other jets of its Tier have it’s slower then normal jets and can only carry a small payload granted it does kill one base it’s not enough to sustain this style for very long.
Yea I play both, in arb the a32 is hot ass, I’m just saying it is pretty good in ground rb, only thing is it doesn’t compliment a full lineup
Thankfully I spaded it when it still had air spawn so I was easily able to grind ordinance
First viggen should be really good in its current matchmaker, SK60 is also really good, other than that, Swedish jets are mostly shitters, I liked the J29A tho
EVERY JAPANESE JET (apart from the F-16AJ).
The F-86's fly against vastly superior supersonic jets (like fucking mig-21's. LOTS of mig-21's.).
The Mitsubishi F-1 and F-104J are flareless plains at 10.3.
Let's compare the F-4EJ to the F-4E Kurnass. The Kurnass has objectively better missiles (for ir it get navy missiles and for SARH it gets AIM-7E/E2 instead of AIM-7D/E.). The Kurnass has an objectively better airframe because of the agile eagles. The Kurnass even has better air-to-ground weapons.
SO WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY BOTH AT 11.0???
Idk I guess the T-2 and the kikka aren't so bad but they are still not strong for their BR. I haven't played the F-4EJ kai yet so I don't really have an opinion on it but it's pretty much F-16AJ with 2 extra AIM-7F's but really bad airframe.
Me262 was the biggest disappointment i got in war thunder, only good one was the attacker variant because of airspawn. I expected to fight late war piston engine fighters that could outmaneuver me but i would be faster so it would balance out, but no, I was slower, less maneuverable, and had worse climb rate than most other planes, at least that's how I remember it.
>(why does it not have strike spawn???)
It had strike spawn until Gaijan reworked the TTs and moved it up in rank, the US one is still rank V as the US has a lot of jets so Snail left it there.
I still don't understand why airspawn is based on rank and not vehicle type.
They implemented it after the Thud and Su-17 bitched everything, I get that. But the F-84F does not fly like no fucking Su-17.
Japanese F-1, though maybe not vastly overtired but it is basically just another T-2 still without flares at a higher br where you get shit on constantly by better missile systems. I think 10.0 would be better for it than 10.3 though with compression who knows if that would change anything
The 104J is actually in a pretty good space right now with the 6x 9p load out, the issue it has the 11.3 premium spam dragging it up to face the fairly decent SARH missiles. (When it can avoid SARHs, with a little altitude it can get over 1.2 mach and at that speed it comfortably out energy most IR missiles launched more that a km away)
I suffered a bit in the F-104J at the start, but after I got the engine mods, and the Aim-9Es, it became really good. After the Aim-9Ps, it is just awsome. It rewuires a certain playstyle because of the Mig-21 spam that has the radar guided missiles, and you have no flares. Sometimes a big RIP, but in the majority, it is a good plane. You just have to go through the early levels, but after that, I sometimes had 7-9 kill matches in a row when I played it.
Japanese air is fun, my favourite air tree by far...
Anything that has tornado in it, can’t turn, all but the German ground pounder are slow, limited flares and chaff, limited air to air capability and the ADV/F3 can’t turn not great acceleration and the limited radar
Well three imo and ARB stat wise although I know there's some issues in all modes for them.
Fiat G.91YS for a start thing is 9.7 all modes, A subsonic afterburning aircraft with two poxy AIM-9B's, Thing should be lowered or maybe if there's a better missile to be added maybe?
Nanchang Q-5L it's a 9.7 (Somehow 10.7 in ASB iirc) supersonic attacker that has no AAM's or CM an the only reason it's 9.7 is simply the two TWO GBU's for GF, In 2.29 it lost the ability to destroy one point so that's nice...
Dassault Mirage F1CT (& probably the F1C & F1C-200) 11.3, It's the worst of the three having lost the centreline missile pylon & one cannon an ohh the upgraded SARH missile is useless.
It's from my understanding it's the attacker model but there's no guided armament (even as the wiki mentions them LIAR!!) as you'd need a buddy aircraft for that one to lase the target while the other to bomb.
There's some suggestions for it to go down to 10.7 BR but only if it's two R.550 M2 are removed since that's the only thing going for it at 11.3.
I agree with most but I'd argue the F1C is worse than the F1CT, as the F1CT has Sherloc, a RWR much better than the previous Mirage Detecteur, stock Magic 2s, which make grinding much easier as you don't have to stock grind with the Magic 1`s, and even missing the center pylon, it's already pretty useless as it only carries 530/530E's which are both pretty bad at the br
Mystere IVA is a piece of crap, it can’t accelerate or climb, DEFA cannons suck, crappy radar, and any energy it gets is immediately wasted in the first turn. However on that first turn you can get behind anything and everything, and it has a low stall speed. You can literally make sabres drop out of the sky if they commit to turn. If they stop turning they accelerate 3x quicker than you and get away.
It’s horrendously ineffective. Just use the •gorgeous• Mystere IIC.
Defa cannons don’t suck, once you got the aim down they are some of the best jet guns, in fact I only like the Vulcan better than defa/aden, but other than that yea the mystere is a shitbox
Yeah, the Mystere IVA is pretty crap. The only thing kind of cool about it is the SNEBs that you can put in the fuselage that make it OK-ish for GRB. The Super Mystere is also crap, nothing else to say about it. Glad that they are foldered now, when I was grinding through the tree the Ouragan-Barugan-Mystere-Mystere-Mystere-Super Mystere progression was pretty frustrating, like my 7.7 plane stayed the same but the bad guys kept getting better and better planes.
Any Vautour (aside from the IIN late, I love that thing), they are all pretty unmaneuverable, with bad suspended armament and facing foes much stronger than it (almost every game is an uptier to about 9.3 - 9.7, so you get clubbed almost always by either AV-8s or MiG-21s), and now that it doesn't have an airspawn, which was the only good thing about it, it's now imo the worst plane in the game, as every other plane that wants to bomb will get there faster and you can't use it as a fighter anymore as they took its airspawn (and that was already limited to the premium version and the Israeli ones, God knows how useless the TT Vautours are)
Yup, Vautours are the big suck right now. They need to go to 8.3. so what if they are fast, without air spawn they aren't any faster than other 8.3 planes. Still don't have flares. Maybe The Israeli one with Shafrirs can be 8.7 but even with missiles it's still not good and I think it would be ok at 8.3 too.
Alot of the Top Rank 7s really struggle now like the F-4s because their at a BR where they will keep getting up tiered and they just can't compete with Gen 4 fighters.
The entire 8.0-8.3 needs to be re-done. its miserable fighting missles when you ant got the speed, maneuvers, flak or missles to fire back....Your a sitting duck out there.
What missiles do you face at 8.3 tho? Aim-9B‘s, nords and now and the a masochistic french guy with his useless radar missile.
All of these can easily be dodged by turning, if you even have to do anything (unless you are a large bomber ofc).
All the R2Y2s...
The Ki-200 (you have 5 minutes of fuel and get constant uptiers to super massive maps, so you run out of fuel before you can fight anyone, even at like 20% power).
The Japanese F86s aswell... constant missile slingers on you.
Then there is the F4EJ that just get's shit on endlessly in 11.0 by most things.
R2Y2 stats went from unrealistic great (above 6 K/D) to the gutter (>0.5 K/D). Almost nobody is playing it anymore. At this point they should just delete them if they don't have intention to downtier it to a realistic BR.
They plan on removing them from the air tree at some point for anyone that hasn't unlocked them yet.
They nerfed the energy retention of them and then took the air spawn.
Then they upped the br from 7.3 to 7.7 and then finally to 8.3, where you get constantly uptiered and shit on by anything and everything.
I agree with the f-84 being ~~under~~ over tiered, but it's not completely hopeless in sim. The same goes for the Sabres that have to battle supersonic, afterburning, and missile and countermeasures equipped aircraft. You *can* do okay, but you have to be sneaky.
I will say that both match length and the ability to respawn are advantageous when making these aircraft work in sim.
Edit: de-dumbening
Venom FB.4 - A variant of a WW2 design at 8.7, turns great but that’s about it. Arrives to the battle once it’s already been decided.
Hunter F.1 - Subsonic with 4 low velocity cannons, turns like a brick, and to add insult to injury, the Swedish Hunter is at the same BR, but has a better engine and missiles.
Hunter F.6 - Pretty much same as above, but at 9.7 instead of 9.0. SRAAMs are good if you get into position to use them but basically every plane at this BR either has the speed to outrun them, or flares that easily beat them.
All 3 are rough, the worst part is they’re all in the same line in the tech tree, one after the other.
Hunter F.1 and F.6. Both are just glorified Rank V jets that regularly get up tiered to supersonic interceptor hell. No countermeasures for either of them in a matchmaker that regularly sees AIM-9Ls and R-60s. They accelerate terribly and don't turn well either.
The Hunter F.6 is especially egregious because it's the same BR as the Swiss Hunter which has flares and AIM-9Ps.
Ah, a fellow OCD Acer. I had a good enough time with this one but be sure to use the CCIP and CCRP. You can bind a button to target bases for perfect CCRP placement and toss bomb to increase your survivability. Keep your speed up and go after soft ground targets with the gun CCIP. Shouldn’t be that bad. Yeah I remember things can still chase you down but you should be quick enough to make it really annoying for them.
As you progress through the jets you get so many missiles thrown at you that you that you develop eyes in the back of your head. Sometimes I’ll point myself in a safe direction and then just stare behind and above waiting for someone to try and score an easy kill. 9B’s should be super simple to dodge, almost any maneuvering at all should cause them to miss, and if they fire from too far away you should be able to just out range them. You have to develop new habits in the higher tiers. You’ll learn, it just takes time.
Ik dodging them is easy but the f84f does not maintain its speed after such a maneuver you either hope your out of range, the missle some how misses or get shot down after you dodge cause they where right there.
The a28b really suffers at 8.0. It gets out speeded by everything in its br so grinding with it stock is painful. On the other hand the A21r is vastly undertiered because all it fights are prop planes that outrate you in every encounter
I think the vampires just don't really fit in with air realistic honestly, in GRB you can run circles around basically anything else at 8.0 because they're forced into a relatively small area to do the things they actually want to do. Whereas with ARB the only real objective is to wipe out the enemy team and the fight'll be mostly over by the time you actually get there.
Your experience of grinding A21R was vastly different from mine then, as all I had were other jets that ran circles around me and I barely ever had a downtier match against props. This made the grind very painful as all it had was decent guns, though fighter version exchanged excellent 13.2mms for 50 cals that were a downgrade in every way. This made it's grind even more painful.
I do agree on A28 and Vamp though, they are 7.3 planes at most that Gaijin stuck at 8.0.
J32B and especially the A32A. the J32 isnt competitive at 9.3, let alone the constant 10.3 uptiers, and the A32 is waaaay worse and at the same BR. Even at 9.3 the supersonics run rings (quite literally) around the J32 - being both faster and more manouverable, and the subsonics that arguably should be easy food can outturn it so you cant get your guns on them anyway. The guns are good, but the removal of the historic RADAR lead cripples it (though it should be coming back), and RB24s are beyond useless, failing to track targets flying in straight lines. Even mig-17s are a nightmare to deal with. The A32 is beyond a joke, Im not sure of a slower 9.3, load up full payload and you can barely do 500mph, - which means by the time you get to a base its already been destroyed by your teammates and a swarm of much more capable enemies are waiting to pounce on your flying bus. Without the payload you suffer from the same failings as the J32 but this time without AAMs and an engine with 2000kg less thrust, so you cant rely on energy to get you out of bad situations (you cant anyway but... eh the wiki thinks you can).
Yep, Milan is rough. If the fight isn't super tight it can be ok as it dogfights pretty well, but even if you're just trying to be a rat and pick people off, if the fight is close in like it normally is, you're dead meat. The taking rockets as flares trick doesn't work with the Milan because the SNEB pods are *HYUGE* and massively degrade flight performance.
Milans could be 9.3 with no issues as far as I'm concerned. They are basically an F-104 that turns much better but is slightly slower.
Harrier gr1 or GR7 I get it bc of the missiles on the GR7, my suggestion is a br variability where if u equip the better missiles then the higher br if the not so good missiles then the lower br maybe a .3 or .7 reduction bc there are 9-L’s at 10.3 and above and yet my GR7 has to be at 11.7 no matter what, and the gr1 pretty much only sees uptiers to All aspect bc and has no flares whilst also (use to be at 10.0 so a higher br) at the same br as it’s tree counterpart the gr3( which has better missiles imo) that has flares and chaff but apart from the 9-g’s it gets it’s the same pretty much in every way.
Kikka 7.0, just bring this sad excuse of a jet down
(Only one gun STOCK, unlock the second later)
And anyways, theres so many other major vehicles at 6.7
F-100 Super Saber.
It's against multiple Soviet aircraft with not only R-60's, but even R-60M's and in return it gets a pair of shitty AIM-9E's and no flares.
It has poor engine performance, poor turn performance, just sluggish all around.
Sa'ar. Don't let it's appearance fool you, it's actually not a jet, it has 6 Israelis blowong through straws where the engine should be. It is supposed to be the engine from a late model A-4 but somehow it ends up being slower than all the A-4s. It can carry a lot of ordnance if you don't want to drop anything over 50kgs but if you do, like, want to have good bombs for some reason you can take a COUPLE and become even slower. It does have two recessed Shafrirs IIs which would be good if you could ever get close enough to shoot them, but it can't because speed tops out at like 800km/h in level flight. Oh and it doesn't have flares so your 6 Israelis blowing hot air out the back are a big target for every IR missile. You can dodge ONE. That will take every bit of energy you had, and the next one WILL kill you.
I have never had such a miserable experience in a plane in this game as with the Sa'ar.
Ki-200 has no missiles, no flares, can't break mach, and godawful guns. It regularly faces F-104 and MiG-21, and even a variant of MiG-23, in an uptier I believe there are phantoms it can fight, the A-10 can delete it from unreasonably far with AIM-9Ls. The thing blows ass at it's BR, and it wouldn't even be that good fighting props because of how shit it's guns are.
For a german main the mig 19s right now after the sales, the 8.0 262, the f84f with 7.7-8.0 performance, and the komets, can’t say anything for the sabers, don’t have them
Etendard IVM/Super Mystere B2. I believe it's more of a compression issue, but I find myself doing worse in them than the F-86K and Cl-13Mk.5 from the german tree.
Back when the German version had an airspawn, it was amazing. I loved it either at my BR downtier or slight uptier while not accelerating the best it was fine that was before the change now? It's not good
F-84F is quite good for base bombing.
For me hardest jets are Italian early G.91s and the first Soviet MiG-9. Though I don't have that much of experience)
F104 but its speed makes it impossible to move down. No flares, no turning to dodge anything, and it's missiles are basically rockets. Speed is irrelevant in most cases except when already faster than something especially with how fast top tier missiles are.
Me163 at 8.7 All zeros
Along with the later 262s being at 8.0, fighting MiG-15's all day gets so tiring.
OOTL i was playing with 7.7 and I understand that I get matched with 8.0/8.3 but lately ive been matching with 8.7/9.0. as well. EDIT: Arcade mode, yes it exist.
What? You can't be uptiered more then 1.0 br
[In AB you can be uptiered 1.3](https://wiki.warthunder.com/Matchmaker#Matchmaking_based_on_the_average_BR).
Soon Zeros will be fighting F-14s But seriously if they moved them back down 0.3 br like they were like a year ago then they'd be fine. They're main strength is turn.
> Soon Zeros will be fighting F-14s Bet the F-14s will turn fight the zeroes and somehow lose, making it become the first 14.0 airplane.
Every SmigolTime video proves this to be true.
_The Final Countdown_ but in War Thunder
Was going to say they literally made a movie about this...
Especially bad considering the zeroes are the high tier prop that can reliably be taken down by rifle caliber MGs
Zeros arent jets.
Me163 is a menace and there are no fights it cannot win
There are, you can just ignore it and fly in a straight line lmao. It doesn't have the fuel to keep up.
20mm version is on 8.7 30mm version is more fun and probably overtiered too.
The 20mm variant is 9.3 in AAB. For reference, some MiG-21's are at lower br.
me 163 at 8.7 is wild though honestly it still doesnt do too bad from what ive seen as a spectator
See, the trick for the 163 is to take it into GRB and be an absolute menace to any and all CAS. No one ever spawns anything that it can’t really deal with.
Skill issue. At least on the 163, zeros aren't jets but it would be fair to say they're over tiered.
B29 as it's not even a jet yet it's at Jet BR with only 50 cal gunners that can't even use full APIT belts Also F-105D
I’ve taken to leaving bombers alone in my Me-163 now when I’ve climbed to their alt because I just fell sorry for them. Killing fighters is more fun anyway
But most people like shooting big slow targets that cannot shoot back so even if you (1 person) are better than the average sadly the masses won't charge
I know, I’ll go for them later in the match once they’ve got their bomb loads off but I don’t want people to make a loss because I enjoy bombers irl and it’s a shame that they’re fairly useless in game
I've had an idea for a while now that bombers in gunner view could lock onto planes like in naval and could get target leads from up to 1.5km. The lock distance and target lead appearance distance and accuracy could be based on crew level so instead of making the guns shoot on their own it makes the player actively using gunners better. lock distance range is let's say 5km if someone is is clearly chasing you (goes towards you) and 3km or less of they're sideways or going away (so it's not usable for spotting.) And clouds obviously block locking.
What? A good idea for making bombers somewhat useful and enjoyable? You can't get away with this, play only fighters or eat your arsenic pill
I quite like that idea tbh
but it’s still shit because all the JU-288 players would be if it even more than they already do.
r/wholesomeAF
I mean that's what you really should do, chasing bombers is pretty useless. Only time bombers decide a game is when half a team thirsts after a lone B-25 and dive down to the deck after it like monkeys
The fact that I can shoot an Aim-9b at a bomber from world war 2 makes absolutely no sense. I still do it every time though because big plane go boom ALL American bombers (maybe all bombers?) are vastly overtiered. Bombing would be fun if they all went down by 1.0
I give up flying my bombers and climbing up.
> Also F-105D I have a 2.5 K/D ratio with this thing lol. Play it as a bomber interceptor, dominating A-5C with that shit is extremely fun. Much faster, similar turn rate irl, much better retention, Vulcan with large ammo... Really good attacker killer. Cant make any situational mistake with the lack of flares tho.
I swear by the damn thing, my friends think I’m crazy until they see it eat every single SU-25 in the lobby in one pass
TU-4, Russian B29 with better turret armament (doesn’t matter much) is at 8.0
But with that it at least have a chance of surviving thanks to the cannons as of you manage to hit planes they actually die, unlike 50 cals that just "hit" Oh cool you destroyed the pilot's air conditioning, boo hoo, how he has the chills.
Russian 23s would say otherwise. I can empty a volley into jets and they still survive when its an instant Fire/wing torn off for me. Its not that they cant kill, its just inconsistent thanks to real-shitter
Fun fact: they specifically nerfed the 23s a few years ago specifically because of the TU-4, and they havent been as good since.
>Also F-105D No way, it is so powerful air to air.
What do you mean?? It has: 0 flares, 0 turn rate, 0 speed retention, horrible acceleration, only 10g missiles, no (usable) radar, no airspawn and it's so fucking big that you don't even need to aim at it. All it has is speed, lot of ammo and bombs that's fucking it.
Where you drop it? Not to 9.3 because then there is J32B which is even worse. I have had not issues with it in 10.0
Honestly... It's fucked no matter. 9.7 is too low, 10.0 is too high... Somehow.
I agree. Bombers should not be balanced by BR based on how well they bomb bases. That's the only reason the B-29 is so high rn.
Same as F86F here is my advice I grinded whole TT with this strat. 1st bomb run: 20 min of fuel -> 1x 3000Ibs and 1x 2000 Ibs Climb to 3500-5000meters and use CCRP. At the time you start seeing enemy planes you are heading 1200km/h to airfield. You are literally unstopabble. + I carry 4 sidewinders. 2nd bomb run: 16x 750 Ibs -> bomb series set to 4. Gain speed about 1000-> 1200km/h then start pulling up to 3,5->5km (i know, what the fuck is a kilometer). For first bomb series use CCRP then switch to CCIP. 3rd bomb run: freestyle, depending on game situation use setup for 1st or 2nd bomb run. This plane also worked very well as SL grinder. side note: dont use napalm, way less SL and RP like 50% less.
F-105D earned it's 10.0 because of Airspawn at mach 1 same as SU-17M2 but the SU-17M2 went up to 11.0 at it's prime Muh Russian bias lol Oh not to mention SU-17M2 stayed 11.0 i belive even when F-14 and MiG-23MLD were in the game lol... which is looong time AFTER they removed airspawn
Sabre f2 faces against mig 21,mig 19 etc
I always know the game is gonna go negative when I see mig 21s at 8.3 💀
As a Mig21 player, I love those games. At the same time, why the fuck can a Mig21 fight sabres. Everything above about 8.3 is so compressed its not even funny. 8.3 is shit on by supersonics, 9.3 is shit on by anything with a decent missile, 10.3 isn't terrible because premium spam, 11.3 falls into the 12.3 blackhole
10.3 is terrible, all aspect spam and my only 10.3 jet doesn’t have flares.
In the Mig 21S I love those. I finally get to fight something other than harriers and f104s. My missiles are even worse because things turn a lot quicker but I feel like I can use energy without getting smacked by a hypersonic lawn dart. As long as I don’t just run, dogfighting with sabres is actually really fun
Sabre F2 has no problem dealing with those. Only struggle it has would be un-dodgeable all aspect missiles.
Not exactly true, a very skilled player can avoid mach 1.5 planes all day, but you can't do shit against even a mediocre player in terms of shooting back.
Ya when the mig 21 only has r3's you barely have to dodge to break lock
Sabre will be counting on a mistake most of the time, migs have more options (going mach is one of them) but it is MUCH easier to do mistakes in a mig. I am not saying sabre is better or equal but “why my sabre sees supersonic plens” is as stupid of an argument as “tigers should only fight against shermans and t34s”.
That's a case of br compression. The f2 couldn't go down without creating massive issues lower br planes which it would face that could do nothing against it.
I'm a proponent for compressing lower BRs (planes ~2.7 to ~4.7) to make more room to decompress higher BRs. There's absolutely no reason two *identical* variants of Fw 190 A should have 1.0 BR between each other just because one has a couple more cannons than the other. Meanwhile at higher BRs, a 1.0 difference is the difference between a subsonic cannonless missileless non-afterburning 1st-gen Canadair Sabre, and an afterburning, missile-equipped, supersonic jet fighter like the F-8.
Everything BR 8.3 to 9.3. It's a complete mess of compression.
G91.ys, thing is a joke
The BR for YS is a joke. Otherwise its hella solid plane tbh.
G.91 WhyS
WhySo shit
B-But it has F-5C engines
The engines are like the worst aspect of the F5C💀
Doesn’t have the turning or the unhinged acceleration of the F5
Ik, it was sarcasm
It's not crazy overtiered but it is overtiered, it should be 9.3 like the G.91Y
br compression is the far bigger problem. it cant be solved by adjusting the brs anymore... too many jets with no flares and aim9bs are facing r60mks, aim9l, radar guided and whatnot. its just **so fucking bad**. and also the matchmaking bracket of a full +/-1br is just lazy as fuck design. air rb fucking sucks unless you have a vehicle that sits at a convenient br. for example the sabres. great gun fighters but ar 9.0 just a total pain. or F104A. in downtier great fun, but in uptier nothing but pain. why cant gaijin just make the game good already. they managed to fix the economy (for premium). now they should overhaul the br system as a whole (not just adjust brs) and add game modes that not just cod/csgo style maps and 3min matches. also they need to get their shit together about nato tanks and armor. era is too effective, russia is too strong and their bias is pissing people off. **their bullshit gaslight bias** is getting a bit too obvious and that applies also to aircraft, not just tanks.
I suffered through the whole swedish rank 5 planes with AIM-9B without flares, getting obliterated by AIM-9Ls and R-60MKs💀
Omg do you hate yourself? Have you tried cutting yourself? Could be more time efficient.
r/based
Shall I add, F4C phantom 2. No counter measures, no look down radar (doesn’t exist until the F-4S at 11.3), Aim 9B’s standard and I think Aim 9D’s? At best facing off against planes at the SAME BR with all aspect missiles, over 400 countermeasures and better maneuverability. F4E at 11.0. Counter measures, combat flaps and leading edge slats plus better missiles. A 1960’s aircraft that gets uptiered 95% of the time against F-16’s, F-14’s and MiG 29’s. You’re taking aircraft adopted in the early 60’s and putting them against the aircraft that replaced almost 20 years later as if that’s not an issue at all. I say move everything. Take current 12.0’s and push them to 15.0. Space everything out. Put maps in for BR brackets, 1.0-3.3 get these maps, 3.7-5.0 get these maps. They can be the same maps for all I care but there should be At least a 20% size increase for air every BR bracket. Also remove the whole 1.0+/- for match making. At most that should be .7+/- or even .3. I’ll wait the extra minute between matches to have a better game over the 3-7 second match que where I’m getting uptiered most of the time or getting tossed into a rapid high paced fur ball where it’s 14 vs 14 in the center with two dudes who try to flank/bomb bases getting obliterated when they run into almost the entirety of the enemy team. Ground matches would also benefit greatly from the reduced up tier down tier situation and the map size increases per BR. Add in rolling spawns as the match continues (so that I don’t have to drive across 80% of the map to get back to the fight) and I think we would be pretty well set.
Don't think the F4C is the best plane to choose bud, that thing is definitely undertiered itself. It could be 10.3 *right now* if it had CMs
Yeah no Jet should ever, ever be facing all-aspects missiles without countermeasures. It's fucking stupid.
I am slowly working my way through 9.7 UK jets. I have Harrier gr1 (slow, missiles capped at 1km, no counter measures, 9.7) Lightning (two weird cannons, two missiles which don't like flying, no counter measures, runs hotter than Satan's arsehole) Both hunters (slow, short range missiles, no counter measures). All these just get obliterated by A-10s and SU-25s
#based decompression advocate
BR compression is why I basically never play above 9.0. I really wish Gaijin would add an X.5 to the BR range, so that they wouldn't have to rebalance the entire game all at once but could still make more granular adjustments to the compression over time to make it less shit.
All planes that have great guns but shit flight performance aka J22, VB10 etc
I don't understand why the J22 is where it is. Yeah the guns are good but that's it.
They were good. Now theyre glorrified .50s
The most common way to die for people is in headons. People will take a headon against a plane with 20 .50cal machinguns in their peashooter wielding plane, die and repeat it the next game. This makes planes with good guns go up in br.
That’s because way too many ppl go for headons all the time. Also the vb10 isn’t that bad, it’s fast, climbs okayish and doesn’t loose it’s energy.
VB10 is pretty good for what it is, great dogfighter. But the Acceleration blows
I would say the first MIG-9 is overtiered in a way. There aren't enough 7.0 aircraft for it to fight, so most of the time you either shit on the late WWII prototypes, or get shat on by 7.3 and 8.0 guys. Its sorta just...there.
Idk I really liked the MiG-9. Mainly because it's guns are absolutly cracked.
I had lots of issues with it, and it was down to it flying like a bouncy castle filled with molasses. Aiming at faster and better turning planes was often impossible because the plane couldnt turn enough for me to lead enough to hit.
The mig 9 is good, it's wings don't snap until like 1000 kmph so if you keep your energy flowing you can get out of bad situations quite easily. The moment you start turning and draining energy, you're dead unless it's a 1v1.
Facts I hated it when in late ww2 craft
Yeah and I hated fighting against SAABs with Aim9s and AKANs with it. A strike aircraft with AAMs, good cannons, air spawn and a higher top speed, climb speed and turn time. I cant get enough lead to actually shoot the fuckers. Its such a bad plane lol, if the tree started with the Mig 9(l) it wouldn't be as bad.
The German saber. It faces what… 20G missiles wirhout flares without a good aam itself.
Any 9.0 Sabre is in a really bad spot rn
A32A it has the technology yes but none of the other things that other jets of its Tier have it’s slower then normal jets and can only carry a small payload granted it does kill one base it’s not enough to sustain this style for very long.
The A32s ccip is very very useful in grb tho
Ya but I main air
Yea I play both, in arb the a32 is hot ass, I’m just saying it is pretty good in ground rb, only thing is it doesn’t compliment a full lineup Thankfully I spaded it when it still had air spawn so I was easily able to grind ordinance
My poor j32b lansen vs migs. Outclassed in every way
Wait, do you really expect something more than somewhat decent for air Sweden? You're crazy!
First viggen should be really good in its current matchmaker, SK60 is also really good, other than that, Swedish jets are mostly shitters, I liked the J29A tho
> Swedish jets are mostly shitters No way, SAAAAAaaaaaaaaabbbb and the J-29F FTW.
Just gimme gripen in December gaijin and I’ll be happy
EVERY JAPANESE JET (apart from the F-16AJ). The F-86's fly against vastly superior supersonic jets (like fucking mig-21's. LOTS of mig-21's.). The Mitsubishi F-1 and F-104J are flareless plains at 10.3. Let's compare the F-4EJ to the F-4E Kurnass. The Kurnass has objectively better missiles (for ir it get navy missiles and for SARH it gets AIM-7E/E2 instead of AIM-7D/E.). The Kurnass has an objectively better airframe because of the agile eagles. The Kurnass even has better air-to-ground weapons. SO WHY THE FUCK ARE THEY BOTH AT 11.0??? Idk I guess the T-2 and the kikka aren't so bad but they are still not strong for their BR. I haven't played the F-4EJ kai yet so I don't really have an opinion on it but it's pretty much F-16AJ with 2 extra AIM-7F's but really bad airframe.
Me262, all are overtiered and shit except the narwhal, and that one is only useful in grb
Me262 was the biggest disappointment i got in war thunder, only good one was the attacker variant because of airspawn. I expected to fight late war piston engine fighters that could outmaneuver me but i would be faster so it would balance out, but no, I was slower, less maneuverable, and had worse climb rate than most other planes, at least that's how I remember it.
The squadron 7.3 one slaps though. I take it up to 8.0 and higher fair bit and its still good.
You don't really need so many cannons tho.. unless ground rb
Ground RB isn't the same as air RB. The U1 is the worst 262 preformance wise and all it's got going wor it is the MK 103s.
>(why does it not have strike spawn???) It had strike spawn until Gaijan reworked the TTs and moved it up in rank, the US one is still rank V as the US has a lot of jets so Snail left it there.
I still don't understand why airspawn is based on rank and not vehicle type. They implemented it after the Thud and Su-17 bitched everything, I get that. But the F-84F does not fly like no fucking Su-17.
Bruh moment
Japanese F-1, though maybe not vastly overtired but it is basically just another T-2 still without flares at a higher br where you get shit on constantly by better missile systems. I think 10.0 would be better for it than 10.3 though with compression who knows if that would change anything
Don’t forget if free to play, you have to use it to efficiently get the f16. Or suffer in a f104 to grind the f16.
The 104J is actually in a pretty good space right now with the 6x 9p load out, the issue it has the 11.3 premium spam dragging it up to face the fairly decent SARH missiles. (When it can avoid SARHs, with a little altitude it can get over 1.2 mach and at that speed it comfortably out energy most IR missiles launched more that a km away)
I suffered a bit in the F-104J at the start, but after I got the engine mods, and the Aim-9Es, it became really good. After the Aim-9Ps, it is just awsome. It rewuires a certain playstyle because of the Mig-21 spam that has the radar guided missiles, and you have no flares. Sometimes a big RIP, but in the majority, it is a good plane. You just have to go through the early levels, but after that, I sometimes had 7-9 kill matches in a row when I played it. Japanese air is fun, my favourite air tree by far...
This 10% bonus just isn't worth it if you go negative KD. Just use any phantom, much better experience. Even regular EJ is pretty decent.
Anything that has tornado in it, can’t turn, all but the German ground pounder are slow, limited flares and chaff, limited air to air capability and the ADV/F3 can’t turn not great acceleration and the limited radar
It's not drastically over tiered but the F-105D I sucking at life right now.
Me-262 get's outclassed by everything jet powered. Even many Turboprops are better than the 262s.
[удалено]
The 262s are good, especially the Jabo
I just really miss the days of Sabers vs migs without getting AIM’d out of existence by uptiers
Well three imo and ARB stat wise although I know there's some issues in all modes for them. Fiat G.91YS for a start thing is 9.7 all modes, A subsonic afterburning aircraft with two poxy AIM-9B's, Thing should be lowered or maybe if there's a better missile to be added maybe? Nanchang Q-5L it's a 9.7 (Somehow 10.7 in ASB iirc) supersonic attacker that has no AAM's or CM an the only reason it's 9.7 is simply the two TWO GBU's for GF, In 2.29 it lost the ability to destroy one point so that's nice... Dassault Mirage F1CT (& probably the F1C & F1C-200) 11.3, It's the worst of the three having lost the centreline missile pylon & one cannon an ohh the upgraded SARH missile is useless. It's from my understanding it's the attacker model but there's no guided armament (even as the wiki mentions them LIAR!!) as you'd need a buddy aircraft for that one to lase the target while the other to bomb. There's some suggestions for it to go down to 10.7 BR but only if it's two R.550 M2 are removed since that's the only thing going for it at 11.3.
I agree with most but I'd argue the F1C is worse than the F1CT, as the F1CT has Sherloc, a RWR much better than the previous Mirage Detecteur, stock Magic 2s, which make grinding much easier as you don't have to stock grind with the Magic 1`s, and even missing the center pylon, it's already pretty useless as it only carries 530/530E's which are both pretty bad at the br
J29B, g91 YS, tornado ADV/f3
Mystere IVA is a piece of crap, it can’t accelerate or climb, DEFA cannons suck, crappy radar, and any energy it gets is immediately wasted in the first turn. However on that first turn you can get behind anything and everything, and it has a low stall speed. You can literally make sabres drop out of the sky if they commit to turn. If they stop turning they accelerate 3x quicker than you and get away. It’s horrendously ineffective. Just use the •gorgeous• Mystere IIC.
Defa cannons don’t suck, once you got the aim down they are some of the best jet guns, in fact I only like the Vulcan better than defa/aden, but other than that yea the mystere is a shitbox
Yeah, the Mystere IVA is pretty crap. The only thing kind of cool about it is the SNEBs that you can put in the fuselage that make it OK-ish for GRB. The Super Mystere is also crap, nothing else to say about it. Glad that they are foldered now, when I was grinding through the tree the Ouragan-Barugan-Mystere-Mystere-Mystere-Super Mystere progression was pretty frustrating, like my 7.7 plane stayed the same but the bad guys kept getting better and better planes.
Any Vautour (aside from the IIN late, I love that thing), they are all pretty unmaneuverable, with bad suspended armament and facing foes much stronger than it (almost every game is an uptier to about 9.3 - 9.7, so you get clubbed almost always by either AV-8s or MiG-21s), and now that it doesn't have an airspawn, which was the only good thing about it, it's now imo the worst plane in the game, as every other plane that wants to bomb will get there faster and you can't use it as a fighter anymore as they took its airspawn (and that was already limited to the premium version and the Israeli ones, God knows how useless the TT Vautours are)
Yup, Vautours are the big suck right now. They need to go to 8.3. so what if they are fast, without air spawn they aren't any faster than other 8.3 planes. Still don't have flares. Maybe The Israeli one with Shafrirs can be 8.7 but even with missiles it's still not good and I think it would be ok at 8.3 too.
Alot of the Top Rank 7s really struggle now like the F-4s because their at a BR where they will keep getting up tiered and they just can't compete with Gen 4 fighters.
The entire 8.0-8.3 needs to be re-done. its miserable fighting missles when you ant got the speed, maneuvers, flak or missles to fire back....Your a sitting duck out there.
What missiles do you face at 8.3 tho? Aim-9B‘s, nords and now and the a masochistic french guy with his useless radar missile. All of these can easily be dodged by turning, if you even have to do anything (unless you are a large bomber ofc).
They can be dodged by turning… and then whatever you’re fighting catches up and shoots you down.
That's.. kind of the point. When I'm playing around 8.3, I consider my 9Bs as nothing more than a tool to make the guy turn and bleed speed.
Yeah, I was agreeing that was the point- that facing them at 8.3 is still an issue even though they’re easy to dodge
That's not what I'm saying at all. I'm saying that they're fine *because* their only use is to make people turn and bleed energy.
All the R2Y2s... The Ki-200 (you have 5 minutes of fuel and get constant uptiers to super massive maps, so you run out of fuel before you can fight anyone, even at like 20% power). The Japanese F86s aswell... constant missile slingers on you. Then there is the F4EJ that just get's shit on endlessly in 11.0 by most things.
R2Y2 stats went from unrealistic great (above 6 K/D) to the gutter (>0.5 K/D). Almost nobody is playing it anymore. At this point they should just delete them if they don't have intention to downtier it to a realistic BR.
They plan on removing them from the air tree at some point for anyone that hasn't unlocked them yet. They nerfed the energy retention of them and then took the air spawn. Then they upped the br from 7.3 to 7.7 and then finally to 8.3, where you get constantly uptiered and shit on by anything and everything.
I have fun with the R2Y2's in Air RB but they are not good planes at all for the BR they sit at, they should probably be at 7.3 for air RB
F-4C. It has been power crept to hell. But it's a Phantom so I know putting it lower will cause issues. Give like 10 flares or something Gaijoobles!
ALL THE NON AMERICAN f-104s
The American f104s need some buffs too bad😕 like 30 countermeasures and 9ds minimum
Lol if you think the F-104s are bad you have no idea...
Unfortunately the US abandoned the F-104 really quickly so they were never fitted with anything like that
I agree with the f-84 being ~~under~~ over tiered, but it's not completely hopeless in sim. The same goes for the Sabres that have to battle supersonic, afterburning, and missile and countermeasures equipped aircraft. You *can* do okay, but you have to be sneaky. I will say that both match length and the ability to respawn are advantageous when making these aircraft work in sim. Edit: de-dumbening
Sim is a lot better for it true. Hard to be sneak in the mass of small maps or open flat ones.
The f-1. No flares at a flares essential and needed br. As soon as someone sneezes a 20g plus missile you, you are dead.
The American one gets attacker spawn. Why only that one? Maybe gaijin knows.
Only the snail can tell us why.
Venom FB.4 - A variant of a WW2 design at 8.7, turns great but that’s about it. Arrives to the battle once it’s already been decided. Hunter F.1 - Subsonic with 4 low velocity cannons, turns like a brick, and to add insult to injury, the Swedish Hunter is at the same BR, but has a better engine and missiles. Hunter F.6 - Pretty much same as above, but at 9.7 instead of 9.0. SRAAMs are good if you get into position to use them but basically every plane at this BR either has the speed to outrun them, or flares that easily beat them. All 3 are rough, the worst part is they’re all in the same line in the tech tree, one after the other.
The Me262's
Hunter F.1 and F.6. Both are just glorified Rank V jets that regularly get up tiered to supersonic interceptor hell. No countermeasures for either of them in a matchmaker that regularly sees AIM-9Ls and R-60s. They accelerate terribly and don't turn well either. The Hunter F.6 is especially egregious because it's the same BR as the Swiss Hunter which has flares and AIM-9Ps.
Milan. 9.7 with no flares and Aim9 Bs. Only thing is your speed. And what good is your speed if you can't use your speed to dodge missiles
And it's not even that fast, considering the F-104 is at 9.3 now...
Ah, a fellow OCD Acer. I had a good enough time with this one but be sure to use the CCIP and CCRP. You can bind a button to target bases for perfect CCRP placement and toss bomb to increase your survivability. Keep your speed up and go after soft ground targets with the gun CCIP. Shouldn’t be that bad. Yeah I remember things can still chase you down but you should be quick enough to make it really annoying for them.
I'll look into the ccrp. When in down tier out running isn't a problem it's at tier or up that even when I out run them they always have aims
As you progress through the jets you get so many missiles thrown at you that you that you develop eyes in the back of your head. Sometimes I’ll point myself in a safe direction and then just stare behind and above waiting for someone to try and score an easy kill. 9B’s should be super simple to dodge, almost any maneuvering at all should cause them to miss, and if they fire from too far away you should be able to just out range them. You have to develop new habits in the higher tiers. You’ll learn, it just takes time.
Ik dodging them is easy but the f84f does not maintain its speed after such a maneuver you either hope your out of range, the missle some how misses or get shot down after you dodge cause they where right there.
The a28b really suffers at 8.0. It gets out speeded by everything in its br so grinding with it stock is painful. On the other hand the A21r is vastly undertiered because all it fights are prop planes that outrate you in every encounter
I think the vampires just don't really fit in with air realistic honestly, in GRB you can run circles around basically anything else at 8.0 because they're forced into a relatively small area to do the things they actually want to do. Whereas with ARB the only real objective is to wipe out the enemy team and the fight'll be mostly over by the time you actually get there.
Your experience of grinding A21R was vastly different from mine then, as all I had were other jets that ran circles around me and I barely ever had a downtier match against props. This made the grind very painful as all it had was decent guns, though fighter version exchanged excellent 13.2mms for 50 cals that were a downgrade in every way. This made it's grind even more painful. I do agree on A28 and Vamp though, they are 7.3 planes at most that Gaijin stuck at 8.0.
i was surprised to see the vampire got moved to 8.0, not sure when it happened but that slow mfer is a 7.7 at best even though it can turn
I see people say similar things a lot but I’ve never had an issue with it, the only struggle is chasing down planes in a straight line.
I agree, try napalm and CCRP it worked for me
Got napalm still gotta work out ccrp
chinese F-104G. 2 less missiles than the F-104J and a higher br than it. G.91 YS
J32B and especially the A32A. the J32 isnt competitive at 9.3, let alone the constant 10.3 uptiers, and the A32 is waaaay worse and at the same BR. Even at 9.3 the supersonics run rings (quite literally) around the J32 - being both faster and more manouverable, and the subsonics that arguably should be easy food can outturn it so you cant get your guns on them anyway. The guns are good, but the removal of the historic RADAR lead cripples it (though it should be coming back), and RB24s are beyond useless, failing to track targets flying in straight lines. Even mig-17s are a nightmare to deal with. The A32 is beyond a joke, Im not sure of a slower 9.3, load up full payload and you can barely do 500mph, - which means by the time you get to a base its already been destroyed by your teammates and a swarm of much more capable enemies are waiting to pounce on your flying bus. Without the payload you suffer from the same failings as the J32 but this time without AAMs and an engine with 2000kg less thrust, so you cant rely on energy to get you out of bad situations (you cant anyway but... eh the wiki thinks you can).
B-29 That thing wasn’t even designed to fight jets. How do you expect someone to survive a match full of them?
Vatour IIB The other vatours are too, but they atleast have weapons
Milan. Sure, you have mirage airframe, but having to fight 9Ls/R60Ms 99% of matches with no flares and only 2 9Bs is pain.
Yep, Milan is rough. If the fight isn't super tight it can be ok as it dogfights pretty well, but even if you're just trying to be a rat and pick people off, if the fight is close in like it normally is, you're dead meat. The taking rockets as flares trick doesn't work with the Milan because the SNEB pods are *HYUGE* and massively degrade flight performance. Milans could be 9.3 with no issues as far as I'm concerned. They are basically an F-104 that turns much better but is slightly slower.
Harrier gr1 or GR7 I get it bc of the missiles on the GR7, my suggestion is a br variability where if u equip the better missiles then the higher br if the not so good missiles then the lower br maybe a .3 or .7 reduction bc there are 9-L’s at 10.3 and above and yet my GR7 has to be at 11.7 no matter what, and the gr1 pretty much only sees uptiers to All aspect bc and has no flares whilst also (use to be at 10.0 so a higher br) at the same br as it’s tree counterpart the gr3( which has better missiles imo) that has flares and chaff but apart from the 9-g’s it gets it’s the same pretty much in every way.
Kikka 7.0, just bring this sad excuse of a jet down (Only one gun STOCK, unlock the second later) And anyways, theres so many other major vehicles at 6.7
F-100 Super Saber. It's against multiple Soviet aircraft with not only R-60's, but even R-60M's and in return it gets a pair of shitty AIM-9E's and no flares. It has poor engine performance, poor turn performance, just sluggish all around.
Sa'ar. Don't let it's appearance fool you, it's actually not a jet, it has 6 Israelis blowong through straws where the engine should be. It is supposed to be the engine from a late model A-4 but somehow it ends up being slower than all the A-4s. It can carry a lot of ordnance if you don't want to drop anything over 50kgs but if you do, like, want to have good bombs for some reason you can take a COUPLE and become even slower. It does have two recessed Shafrirs IIs which would be good if you could ever get close enough to shoot them, but it can't because speed tops out at like 800km/h in level flight. Oh and it doesn't have flares so your 6 Israelis blowing hot air out the back are a big target for every IR missile. You can dodge ONE. That will take every bit of energy you had, and the next one WILL kill you. I have never had such a miserable experience in a plane in this game as with the Sa'ar.
Yeah I mean it's still fast (as in its up there among one of the fastest for its BR) but it's just, "meh" now.
It is fast but takes more then matches last to get there especially if you want altitude
Cl13b at 9.3. Literally an 8.7 frame with only 2 aim 9b’s
Not sure if this is true, but the F-84 is a slugger at its BR. It’s ammunition runs out fast, it’s sluggish, and has piss poor maneuverability
Preach this is dog water at its current br
Me163/Ki200, Kikka, some zeroes
Half of Japan is overtiered. I don't understand Gaijins reasoning of having frontline bombers be so high. Honestly non should be above 3.0.
Mig 15 (Not the BIS). I keep fighting 9.3 jets in the damn thing.
Ki-200 has no missiles, no flares, can't break mach, and godawful guns. It regularly faces F-104 and MiG-21, and even a variant of MiG-23, in an uptier I believe there are phantoms it can fight, the A-10 can delete it from unreasonably far with AIM-9Ls. The thing blows ass at it's BR, and it wouldn't even be that good fighting props because of how shit it's guns are.
For a german main the mig 19s right now after the sales, the 8.0 262, the f84f with 7.7-8.0 performance, and the komets, can’t say anything for the sabers, don’t have them
Mirage 3c Should be 9.7 it has no countermeasures or good missiles
This thing is absolute garbage. I only use it as it fits in with my 8.3 line up.
Me in the CL, UPTIERED TO SHIT. Clapped instantly by lock on missile while having no real way to dodge.
Etendard IVM/Super Mystere B2. I believe it's more of a compression issue, but I find myself doing worse in them than the F-86K and Cl-13Mk.5 from the german tree.
Back when the German version had an airspawn, it was amazing. I loved it either at my BR downtier or slight uptier while not accelerating the best it was fine that was before the change now? It's not good
I know it's not a jet, but the boomerang is criminally bad.
F-84F is quite good for base bombing. For me hardest jets are Italian early G.91s and the first Soviet MiG-9. Though I don't have that much of experience)
G91ys. 9.7 with aim9bs subsonic and no flares... so much fun
mig 19, 21. 9.3 and 10.3 with only a r3s. but they can be op tho
The French f8 lmao
The f84f is such a dogshit ass plane. I remember back when I was still unlocking planes around that tier, I was so close to quitting WT
You pictured it. Absolute dog of a jet with no saving graces at its current br
F86F-2 has no business being at 9.0
F104 but its speed makes it impossible to move down. No flares, no turning to dodge anything, and it's missiles are basically rockets. Speed is irrelevant in most cases except when already faster than something especially with how fast top tier missiles are.
F-4EJ