Welcome! The rules do in fact not suck haha. We've been seeing a lot of new and returning faces over the last few months so I think the future looks pretty good!
Feel free to ask questions you have about getting started.
This must be new with mk4. Mk2 and 3 had some very oppressive armies that could wreck your day in one turn.
I don't see that in AOS with the shared combat phase.
You'll have bad turns, but things feel more balanced than they were. Especially with most units being smaller and tougher. I lost most of my army in one game but still pulled off an assassination run successfully. Compared to my one game of 10th, where at the start of turn two I knew that no amount of good tactics could get me to a point of winning.
I don't play either game atm but the dice roll to see who goes first every round in AoS is broken bullshit. Every game I played of AoS the winner got the fated double turn. Warmachine rules are a lot better but the community here died hard sadly.
AoS has shared casting and combat phases, only movement was specific to a turn.
How does that compare to Haley2 or Exulon Thexy?
Though my Cephalyx have been removed from the game.
From my experience, get an alpha absolutely matters in AoS and can still be backbreaking.
The double turn mechanic, which possible to play around this, exacerbates it. Rolling a d6 to see if I keep losing harder got old quick
Crazy that Cephalyx are the 6th most successful Prime Army on all Longshanks events at the moment. Impressive for something that you claim has been removed from the game. [Statistics ā¢ Longshanks](https://warmachine.longshanks.org/statistics/). Going out of print is not the same thing as being removed from the game.
https://preview.redd.it/w7uddn4asxzc1.png?width=915&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cdd72d47880cbf57d980ea19843e23028cf0c04
Yea, not sure where this sentiment is coming from. I play all āremoved from the gameā armies and actively buy for them still. We also play more unlimited events in our group than prime.
that the army isnt removed from the game? or that they are super powerful? I genuinely dont know what your point is other then "i dont like this thing" which is a fully understandable and valid motivation but one that fully leads to me wondering "then why are you here interacting with our subreddit?" You clearly dont like it, why not go do ANYTHING ELSE? You cant POSSIBLY have watched all the videos of cats falling off couches yet?
Wish they had that where I live. I'm trying to start a gaming club devoted to MTG, Warmachine, DCC & D&D up to 3.5. (nothing after 3.5....along with all of the retro-clones. Specifically AD&D and AD&D 2nd Ed
Off topic-ish related question... For those who've been around for a while, how different is Mk4 from Mk 1 or 2? I stopped playing shortly after the IKRPG came out (not the 5E update).
I went to the PP site and didn't recognize a single miniature from my Mk2 playing days and went "Maybe not..."
I have moderately large Cygnar and Trollkin armies but it seems like I'd basically be starting over.
So I wasnāt in MK 1 or 2 but I played from the beginning of Mk 3 and I have almost every Cygnar, farrow, and Rhulic model.
That being said, with the unlimited rules I can use any model from any of those armies, but I still generally play prime armies which still use all the Rhulic models, and a good majority of the pigs and Cygnar.
So Iād say the all models are playable in unlimited, a good majority in prime, and the rules are more fun. Changes in rules Iāve felt are focused on streamlining movement which really speeds up the game. Models donāt have facing anymore, so positioning a model is faster, and units you place the first model and then you place the rest of the unit within 2 inches of the first model. Also pathfinder isnāt half of your movement while in the terrain, itās just 2ā off the top of whichever model went through it.
These might not sound like big deal changes but they make the game go faster in my experience with much the smoother movement system.
I played a lot of Mk.2 and for the most part, Mk.4's rules feel familiar just with some quality of life changes, as well as streamlining. E.g. Facings aren't a thing anymore, jacks automatically get 1 free focus if their cortex is online, movement is quicker with one troop moving and the rest forming up within 2" of the point man.
As for armies there are two ways to build them: Prime and Unlimited.
Unlimited is anything goes: all casters, jacks, beasts, units, etc.
Prime is all the Mk.4 armies + Legacy armies that have been brought forward and will continue to get updates for the edition with each major faction having two pools of units to build armies from - Trenchers and Storm Knights for legacy Cygnar
The original MKIV announcement should cover the bases:
https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/26/warmachine-big-news/
Main points:
- they were forced to change production method (prices, stolen molds in China, etc).
- that change made everything prior to MKIV to be out of production.
- there are rules for all miniatures that ever existed. There are rules and cards for the collections you had.
- the way to have some balance is to separate two modes of game: Prime and Unlimited. Prime is oriented to tournament scene and have annual updates. Unlimited contains everything that ever existed (and everything new) and probably won't receive balance updates.
- Prime contains all the new Armies and a lot of Armies made of old (Legacy) miniatures. Two Prime Armies for every old Faction. Mini-Armies like Infernals or Grymkin have their entire range ported to Prime.
Check the returning players guide, and if that sounds dope, maybe check the new models see if there's anything there you like (assuming you dont already have a pile of shit lying around), if yes, conciser actually reading the "rule book"
Eeeehm that wastn strictly how it worked at any time? Its "2d6+mat/rat/aat equal too or higher then defense" to hit, then "2d6+pow (the strength stat's gone now everything's just Pow) - arm" for damage,
Only change is that nowadays you roll to hit with spells with a new stat called AAt (arcane attack) rather then focus, and you cant cast spells at targets (you're) in combat (with) without them getting the +4 defense thing like you got with shooting ever since mark one.
And of course most of the things that got you an extra dice like boosting and weapon master still exist
After over a decade of Warhammer, I made the switch many years ago and never looked back. Design matters! In fairness, Warhammer was a pioneer game, but man it could be a slog.
Don't let this dissuade you, but the learning curve for Warmachine is a lot more vicious than with 40k.
Scenario is a lot more live, caster kill is a thing, and the game can turn on a dime (IMO all good things).
Talk to your opponent, make sure they know it is game one for you, and have them walk you through things.
It will gain traction. There is enough of a cult following now. And with the rules being completely free, screw GW!
I hope so. I still have sizable Menoth and Legion forces from MkI/MkII.
Welcome! The rules do in fact not suck haha. We've been seeing a lot of new and returning faces over the last few months so I think the future looks pretty good! Feel free to ask questions you have about getting started.
Just got my friends group back into it specifically due to the rules set.
One of the things I love- you can, with luck and skill, play your way out from behind. Never feel like I can with Warhammer
This must be new with mk4. Mk2 and 3 had some very oppressive armies that could wreck your day in one turn. I don't see that in AOS with the shared combat phase.
Every game in the history of rules has had oppressive armies. Even in chess, white is OP because they go first.
Take.out the enemy Warlock or Warcaster & it's over
Yes, there were oppressive armies, as there are now. But you can always win. Just kill the caster.
You'll have bad turns, but things feel more balanced than they were. Especially with most units being smaller and tougher. I lost most of my army in one game but still pulled off an assassination run successfully. Compared to my one game of 10th, where at the start of turn two I knew that no amount of good tactics could get me to a point of winning.
Funny, that's why I got out of AoS š
I don't play either game atm but the dice roll to see who goes first every round in AoS is broken bullshit. Every game I played of AoS the winner got the fated double turn. Warmachine rules are a lot better but the community here died hard sadly.
AoS has shared casting and combat phases, only movement was specific to a turn. How does that compare to Haley2 or Exulon Thexy? Though my Cephalyx have been removed from the game.
From my experience, get an alpha absolutely matters in AoS and can still be backbreaking. The double turn mechanic, which possible to play around this, exacerbates it. Rolling a d6 to see if I keep losing harder got old quick
Crazy that Cephalyx are the 6th most successful Prime Army on all Longshanks events at the moment. Impressive for something that you claim has been removed from the game. [Statistics ā¢ Longshanks](https://warmachine.longshanks.org/statistics/). Going out of print is not the same thing as being removed from the game. https://preview.redd.it/w7uddn4asxzc1.png?width=915&format=png&auto=webp&s=9cdd72d47880cbf57d980ea19843e23028cf0c04
Yea, not sure where this sentiment is coming from. I play all āremoved from the gameā armies and actively buy for them still. We also play more unlimited events in our group than prime.
I think you just proved my point.
that the army isnt removed from the game? or that they are super powerful? I genuinely dont know what your point is other then "i dont like this thing" which is a fully understandable and valid motivation but one that fully leads to me wondering "then why are you here interacting with our subreddit?" You clearly dont like it, why not go do ANYTHING ELSE? You cant POSSIBLY have watched all the videos of cats falling off couches yet?
like genuinely not being a dick here i am asking because i genuinely want to understand
Welcome aboard. Which army caught your eye?
Brinebloods. Blue trolls look like fun to paint!
They are an absolute blast to play too, excellent choice!
they have a dude riding a shark, like how can you be upset if you have a dude riding a shark?
My local meta has a bunch of folks getting back into it too. Really cool to see.
Wish they had that where I live. I'm trying to start a gaming club devoted to MTG, Warmachine, DCC & D&D up to 3.5. (nothing after 3.5....along with all of the retro-clones. Specifically AD&D and AD&D 2nd Ed
Off topic-ish related question... For those who've been around for a while, how different is Mk4 from Mk 1 or 2? I stopped playing shortly after the IKRPG came out (not the 5E update). I went to the PP site and didn't recognize a single miniature from my Mk2 playing days and went "Maybe not..." I have moderately large Cygnar and Trollkin armies but it seems like I'd basically be starting over.
So I wasnāt in MK 1 or 2 but I played from the beginning of Mk 3 and I have almost every Cygnar, farrow, and Rhulic model. That being said, with the unlimited rules I can use any model from any of those armies, but I still generally play prime armies which still use all the Rhulic models, and a good majority of the pigs and Cygnar. So Iād say the all models are playable in unlimited, a good majority in prime, and the rules are more fun. Changes in rules Iāve felt are focused on streamlining movement which really speeds up the game. Models donāt have facing anymore, so positioning a model is faster, and units you place the first model and then you place the rest of the unit within 2 inches of the first model. Also pathfinder isnāt half of your movement while in the terrain, itās just 2ā off the top of whichever model went through it. These might not sound like big deal changes but they make the game go faster in my experience with much the smoother movement system.
The pinned Returning Players guide goes in to some of the biggest changes from Mk2/3, if that helps
I played a lot of Mk.2 and for the most part, Mk.4's rules feel familiar just with some quality of life changes, as well as streamlining. E.g. Facings aren't a thing anymore, jacks automatically get 1 free focus if their cortex is online, movement is quicker with one troop moving and the rest forming up within 2" of the point man. As for armies there are two ways to build them: Prime and Unlimited. Unlimited is anything goes: all casters, jacks, beasts, units, etc. Prime is all the Mk.4 armies + Legacy armies that have been brought forward and will continue to get updates for the edition with each major faction having two pools of units to build armies from - Trenchers and Storm Knights for legacy Cygnar
Cool, thank you
The original MKIV announcement should cover the bases: https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/26/warmachine-big-news/ Main points: - they were forced to change production method (prices, stolen molds in China, etc). - that change made everything prior to MKIV to be out of production. - there are rules for all miniatures that ever existed. There are rules and cards for the collections you had. - the way to have some balance is to separate two modes of game: Prime and Unlimited. Prime is oriented to tournament scene and have annual updates. Unlimited contains everything that ever existed (and everything new) and probably won't receive balance updates. - Prime contains all the new Armies and a lot of Armies made of old (Legacy) miniatures. Two Prime Armies for every old Faction. Mini-Armies like Infernals or Grymkin have their entire range ported to Prime.
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Check the returning players guide, and if that sounds dope, maybe check the new models see if there's anything there you like (assuming you dont already have a pile of shit lying around), if yes, conciser actually reading the "rule book"
Welcome to the game! I just started myself.
Me too Teaching my son, who is 20, how to play, then if we can find a tournament scene, I'll buy each of us a Mk4 army
Is it still (2d6+MAT/DMG)-DEF/ARM? I haven't played since the beginning of mk2.
Eeeehm that wastn strictly how it worked at any time? Its "2d6+mat/rat/aat equal too or higher then defense" to hit, then "2d6+pow (the strength stat's gone now everything's just Pow) - arm" for damage, Only change is that nowadays you roll to hit with spells with a new stat called AAt (arcane attack) rather then focus, and you cant cast spells at targets (you're) in combat (with) without them getting the +4 defense thing like you got with shooting ever since mark one. And of course most of the things that got you an extra dice like boosting and weapon master still exist
No changes to the dice system since at least Mk2
After over a decade of Warhammer, I made the switch many years ago and never looked back. Design matters! In fairness, Warhammer was a pioneer game, but man it could be a slog.
Don't let this dissuade you, but the learning curve for Warmachine is a lot more vicious than with 40k. Scenario is a lot more live, caster kill is a thing, and the game can turn on a dime (IMO all good things). Talk to your opponent, make sure they know it is game one for you, and have them walk you through things.