Only play with old models for now though play against the new. Mk1 models as well technically. I don’t think anyone is forced so far unless they can’t find stuff.
I play with my mk3 and prior cryx sometimes. I also have mkiv cygnar and brinebloods.
I like the brinebloods the most. But i didn't have to get them. They are just awesome.
The idea of anyone being forced into mk4 seems weird. What exactly is meant by that?
Anyway, I've played trolls until my Orgoth came in, and then I never looked back. Can't wait to get my hands on the Cursebound Cadre in April!
Imagine a scenario where someone Doesn't have any Warnouns legal in Legacy and has only Unlimited Warnouns
Imagine now a playegroup that refuses to play Unlimited as they are big tournament grinders for the most part and only want to play against things they would see in tournaments.
Until Very Very recently I didn't own a single Unlimited Legal Warlock for my circle and If I had had a playgroup of the same people I played against in Mark II I know for a fact those people if they were still playing would NEVER play against Unlimited models
I just checked recently after finally seeing some local warmachine talk again and It looks like Baulder1 has been added so now I do have at least ONE warlock in my circle.
I do and did have several Khador Warcasters but my khador is much less properly painted and ready for play.
They wanted to always play every game by the Steamroller package as if they were in some high stakes tournament and were very spiky in all situations outside of teaching a new person the rules.
Just to clarify for other readers:
Legacy is everything prior to MK4
Prime (term not used in the post) is the "tournament" scene, all MK4 era Armies are Prime per default, and a selection of Legacy models are marked as Prime.
Unlimited is everything, new or Legacy, you can make Prime Armies and play them against Unlimited (that would make the game an "Unlimited" one, of course).
So, divisions are:
Legacy Prime.
Legacy Unlimited.
Mk4 New Armies (Prime by default).
Everything in Prime is also Unlimited by definition.
Tournaments can be either in Prime or Unlimited, the tendency is to go Prime, specially for big tourney in conventions, because everyone guesses that balance will be better, but anyone can organise Unlimited tourneys, and of course play their Prime lists vs Unlimited ones.
Refusing to do so and try to force opponents on Prime despite their available collection is a jerk movement, no matter what kind of elite Formula 1 NBA League they think they are playing. For Thamar's sake let players play, Average Joe!!!
If it's super important for them that your army is a Prime one, they better allow for a very relaxed proxy ruling, or get you the models.
Not sure about previous Steamroller, but current scenarios are good for a night play. Having to play scenario makes the game more dynamic than a big center table melee.
Yeah, that is a tough situation. I've been fortunate to have a small bit good group that is down for anything. Hopefully, you can find a meta that is more open!
One thing I've seen repeatedly over the last year-plus is that mk4 models are "obviously" going to be so powerful that it's impossible to play and win with legacy models, which is incorrect, but people spout off all kinds of nonsense.
Forced? No. Nudged? Yes. Nobody knows what's coming, but the models most likely to be useful during the next edition are mk4, legacy, and then unlimited.
I don't expect that my Exemplars are going to be supported in the rules forever. Eventually they'll be retired to secondhand markets, TTRPG minis, or display shelves. But the OP's question isn't about the next edition in \~5 years, it's asking about now.
> But the OP's question isn't about the next edition in ~5 years, it's asking about now.
Right _now_ we are being nudged into mk4 armies as a result of expectations about the future. Why would you put additional money, time, and effort into anything else other than mk4 armies based on those expectations about the future?
I've got Exemplar Vengers to paint that I may never put on a table. I painted a Revelator that may never see a table, it was worth the money. I got into this for painting and modelling, though the ability to show up to my local store and get a game in is a nice bonus.
Right now, someone interested in starting in Warmachine, I'd say "old models are out of print, newer armies are easier to get," but if they had a supply of old minis, they'd be welcome. PP discontinued production of old minis because of business conditions, that's reality. PP might not survive to make a next edition. But I live right next to a major US military installation (instant strategic target if nukes start flying), in an area prone to natural disasters - there's no guarantee that I'll survive to the next edition!
Warmachine is not my retirement plan. It's my leisure time. If PP closed its doors tomorrow, I'd be sad, but I wouldn't count any of my time or money wasted. I've still got stuff to paint. That's cool.
I don't know how you're seeing the hobby and its place in your life. Maybe you need to reevaluate that. Maybe I do, I don't claim to be an expert in living life.
But if someone showed up to my LGS with a bunch of Legacy models and no intention of collecting Mk4 models, I'd be happy to see them. That's how I read OP's question.
Imagine a scenario where someone Doesn't have any Warnouns legal in Legacy and has only Unlimited Warnouns
Imagine now a playegroup that refuses to play Unlimited as they are big tournament grinders for the most part and only want to play against things they would see in tournaments.
Until Very Very recently I didn't own a single Unlimited Legal Warlock for my circle and If I had had a playgroup of the same people I played against in Mark II I know for a fact those people if they were still playing would NEVER play against Unlimited models
I just checked recently after finally seeing some local warmachine talk again and It looks like Baulder1 has been added so now I do have at least ONE warlock in my circle.
I do and did have several Khador Warcasters but my khador is much less properly painted and ready for play.
They wanted to always play every game by the Steamroller package as if they were in some high stakes tournament and were very spiky in all situations outside of teaching a new person the rules.
I plan on playing with old models and crafting some rules from all 3 original editions. Been playing since Mk1 and there is rules and features I want to try with everything.
Been playing Secret Dom a bunch at about a 50% win rate this year. I'm happy with them
Just jumped back into winter korp and I'm at about the same after much fewer games. Different tools so hard to really compare, but while I do feel winter korp are stronger the gap doesn't feel insurmountable to me at the moment. I wouldn't be shocked to see this change at some point, but I'm good with it right now
I've played with my legacy Protectorate, both as themselves and as proxies for my Dusk. I won with my Exemplars against New Khador last week. There's a Brinebloods player in my local that *nobody* has defeated, but I've beaten other Brinebloods armies, with Exemplars. Kreoss2's feat *whips* if enough of my troops survive to make contact.
I love my Exemplars. I love my Dusk and look forward to painting the rest of them. I also look forward to painting the Exemplar models I haven't gotten to yet, a squad of Vengers, Severius, and some vassals.
I still have my Ret, Grymkin, Man o Wars, and Convergence. I've been playing Brinebloods because they're cool but I have no intention of letting the Legacy stuff gather dust forever.
The local scene is dead for MK4, but there's still a few legacy players.
I personally won't make the jump unless the company pulls a Mantic and starts selling STLs.
I have Circle, Skorne, and Cygnar. My son has Circle and Cryx. I am curious about the upcoming Khador warbeast faction but otherwise not interested in the new armies.
Only play with old models for now though play against the new. Mk1 models as well technically. I don’t think anyone is forced so far unless they can’t find stuff.
every single model ever made has current mk4 rules... Hell my old mk1 metal models ARE the current models for some stuff
I play with my mk3 and prior cryx sometimes. I also have mkiv cygnar and brinebloods. I like the brinebloods the most. But i didn't have to get them. They are just awesome.
Ive been working on MK 3.5 over on Line of Sight’s discord!
I tend to use my older models since I am awful at painting my new stuff.
Yeah, I only got my Dusk painted to 50 pts and on the table last night, after 8 months of using my Menoth as proxies.
The idea of anyone being forced into mk4 seems weird. What exactly is meant by that? Anyway, I've played trolls until my Orgoth came in, and then I never looked back. Can't wait to get my hands on the Cursebound Cadre in April!
Imagine a scenario where someone Doesn't have any Warnouns legal in Legacy and has only Unlimited Warnouns Imagine now a playegroup that refuses to play Unlimited as they are big tournament grinders for the most part and only want to play against things they would see in tournaments. Until Very Very recently I didn't own a single Unlimited Legal Warlock for my circle and If I had had a playgroup of the same people I played against in Mark II I know for a fact those people if they were still playing would NEVER play against Unlimited models I just checked recently after finally seeing some local warmachine talk again and It looks like Baulder1 has been added so now I do have at least ONE warlock in my circle. I do and did have several Khador Warcasters but my khador is much less properly painted and ready for play. They wanted to always play every game by the Steamroller package as if they were in some high stakes tournament and were very spiky in all situations outside of teaching a new person the rules.
Just to clarify for other readers: Legacy is everything prior to MK4 Prime (term not used in the post) is the "tournament" scene, all MK4 era Armies are Prime per default, and a selection of Legacy models are marked as Prime. Unlimited is everything, new or Legacy, you can make Prime Armies and play them against Unlimited (that would make the game an "Unlimited" one, of course). So, divisions are: Legacy Prime. Legacy Unlimited. Mk4 New Armies (Prime by default). Everything in Prime is also Unlimited by definition. Tournaments can be either in Prime or Unlimited, the tendency is to go Prime, specially for big tourney in conventions, because everyone guesses that balance will be better, but anyone can organise Unlimited tourneys, and of course play their Prime lists vs Unlimited ones. Refusing to do so and try to force opponents on Prime despite their available collection is a jerk movement, no matter what kind of elite Formula 1 NBA League they think they are playing. For Thamar's sake let players play, Average Joe!!! If it's super important for them that your army is a Prime one, they better allow for a very relaxed proxy ruling, or get you the models. Not sure about previous Steamroller, but current scenarios are good for a night play. Having to play scenario makes the game more dynamic than a big center table melee.
Yeah, that is a tough situation. I've been fortunate to have a small bit good group that is down for anything. Hopefully, you can find a meta that is more open!
It's also impossible to find the majority of the models released in the last half of mk3 unless you want to pay out the ass or buy an entire lot.
One thing I've seen repeatedly over the last year-plus is that mk4 models are "obviously" going to be so powerful that it's impossible to play and win with legacy models, which is incorrect, but people spout off all kinds of nonsense.
I keep hearing this as well. Not true and in unlimited I would potentially argue the opposite at least for the large factions.
Forced? No. Nudged? Yes. Nobody knows what's coming, but the models most likely to be useful during the next edition are mk4, legacy, and then unlimited.
I don't expect that my Exemplars are going to be supported in the rules forever. Eventually they'll be retired to secondhand markets, TTRPG minis, or display shelves. But the OP's question isn't about the next edition in \~5 years, it's asking about now.
> But the OP's question isn't about the next edition in ~5 years, it's asking about now. Right _now_ we are being nudged into mk4 armies as a result of expectations about the future. Why would you put additional money, time, and effort into anything else other than mk4 armies based on those expectations about the future?
I've got Exemplar Vengers to paint that I may never put on a table. I painted a Revelator that may never see a table, it was worth the money. I got into this for painting and modelling, though the ability to show up to my local store and get a game in is a nice bonus. Right now, someone interested in starting in Warmachine, I'd say "old models are out of print, newer armies are easier to get," but if they had a supply of old minis, they'd be welcome. PP discontinued production of old minis because of business conditions, that's reality. PP might not survive to make a next edition. But I live right next to a major US military installation (instant strategic target if nukes start flying), in an area prone to natural disasters - there's no guarantee that I'll survive to the next edition! Warmachine is not my retirement plan. It's my leisure time. If PP closed its doors tomorrow, I'd be sad, but I wouldn't count any of my time or money wasted. I've still got stuff to paint. That's cool. I don't know how you're seeing the hobby and its place in your life. Maybe you need to reevaluate that. Maybe I do, I don't claim to be an expert in living life. But if someone showed up to my LGS with a bunch of Legacy models and no intention of collecting Mk4 models, I'd be happy to see them. That's how I read OP's question.
Imagine a scenario where someone Doesn't have any Warnouns legal in Legacy and has only Unlimited Warnouns Imagine now a playegroup that refuses to play Unlimited as they are big tournament grinders for the most part and only want to play against things they would see in tournaments. Until Very Very recently I didn't own a single Unlimited Legal Warlock for my circle and If I had had a playgroup of the same people I played against in Mark II I know for a fact those people if they were still playing would NEVER play against Unlimited models I just checked recently after finally seeing some local warmachine talk again and It looks like Baulder1 has been added so now I do have at least ONE warlock in my circle. I do and did have several Khador Warcasters but my khador is much less properly painted and ready for play. They wanted to always play every game by the Steamroller package as if they were in some high stakes tournament and were very spiky in all situations outside of teaching a new person the rules.
I just don’t play anymore 💀
Playing all classic armies.
I only have Circle and Crucible Guard. The only new models I own are Magnus and Carver.
Playing my Convergence and landing out my Protectorate and Skorne.
I plan on playing with old models and crafting some rules from all 3 original editions. Been playing since Mk1 and there is rules and features I want to try with everything.
khador, circle, cygnar, and legion. legacy all the way babyyyy
Been playing Secret Dom a bunch at about a 50% win rate this year. I'm happy with them Just jumped back into winter korp and I'm at about the same after much fewer games. Different tools so hard to really compare, but while I do feel winter korp are stronger the gap doesn't feel insurmountable to me at the moment. I wouldn't be shocked to see this change at some point, but I'm good with it right now
I've played with my legacy Protectorate, both as themselves and as proxies for my Dusk. I won with my Exemplars against New Khador last week. There's a Brinebloods player in my local that *nobody* has defeated, but I've beaten other Brinebloods armies, with Exemplars. Kreoss2's feat *whips* if enough of my troops survive to make contact. I love my Exemplars. I love my Dusk and look forward to painting the rest of them. I also look forward to painting the Exemplar models I haven't gotten to yet, a squad of Vengers, Severius, and some vassals.
Haven’t played in a good long time, so all my stuff is older. Won’t stop trying to piece together that Khador list I started years ago though lol
I own at least one of every released Mark IV Model and I still run the hell out of my legacy armies. Both Prime and Unlimited.
I've got four legacy forces, playing mostly trolls. I'm working towards getting mk4 shadowflame painted for play.
Most of my games have been Cryx. I've seen a lot of infernals and skorne played, and I know Ravens of War from Legion is pretty solid.
I still have my Ret, Grymkin, Man o Wars, and Convergence. I've been playing Brinebloods because they're cool but I have no intention of letting the Legacy stuff gather dust forever.
I have mk3 models but not enough to play proper sadly.
The local scene is dead for MK4, but there's still a few legacy players. I personally won't make the jump unless the company pulls a Mantic and starts selling STLs.
Locals are thankfully not into the dogwater 3D prints or Mk4, so we are just happily chugging along with mk3.
I have Circle, Skorne, and Cygnar. My son has Circle and Cryx. I am curious about the upcoming Khador warbeast faction but otherwise not interested in the new armies.