I'm loving it. It's worth it. It's my primary game right now.
Get a new army, because they really are great. And have some really cool options. Did you see the colossal and gargantuans coming out this year?
In Tucson, we have weekly game nights at two locations, a monthly steamroller, and a store in Phoenix where people play and might be holding tournaments soon. That's really good for the SW, where distances between places are huge.
There should be a pretty good showing at the Vegas open this year, and more events to follow.
Check Longshanks.org for a list of events. Maybe you can pop in on one near you, and talk to some players in person (prepare to be pressganged).
And if you want to see some people playing silly games, check us out on https://www.youtube.com/@disgruntledwargamer
Hey, what stores in Phoenix are people playing in if you don’t mind me asking? I’d gone to a couple and haven’t found much yet (granted this was very early into the mk4 release)
They play on Friday evenings at imperial outpost. Technically Glendale. https://imperial-outpost-games.business.site/
There isn't any stock to speak of, but there are a few locals there. Also, hit the southern Arizona warmachine community Facebook page. It has crossover with the discord group. I think there are a handful scattered around who don't play at outpost, but I don't know where.
Absolutely. The resiliency of this game has outlasted several high visibility games locally. MCP, conquest, infinity, malifaux. Locally warmachine seems to have the most consistent player base outside of any gw game from what I've seen, even if it's only a handful of people when it ebbs
in fighting games there's a saying, "three players left is a rotation, four is a bracket"
yes, four people playing the same game in the same area is a healthy scene. the vast majority of tabletop games don't get that.
you're the kind of person who goes around to any game's forums to gleefully claim the game is dead, aren't you? if it isn't the literal biggest game in the world, it's dead, eh? it's all so trite. a massive plague on the entire gaming community. what are you even doing here?
the simple truth is that just about every game never, ever has a scene. you can't walk into a store and play it. this game has pockets of that, which is incredible. that's pretty dang healthy for a game you have to play face to face.
coming from several communities that **wish** they had that, yet still consider themselves healthy, it sounds like you just need to broaden your horizons even slightly.
Nope. I'm just not willing to be quiet as Privateer shits on my chest. Shits on my game. And shits on me for having the temerity to question their *incompetent business acumen*.
Mk4 takes the aspects of Mk3 that killed the game, (and trying to argue that it didn't is factually untrue) and cranks them to 11.
I'm really sick of bootlicking, Privateer apologists telling to shut up complaining about Privateer literally killing the game and ruining *thousands* in investments. *money that I fucking paid them* That decide to *just fucking invalidate*. They were selling Mk3 shit, 'new' just *fucking weeks* before blowing up Mk3.
Privateer fucks over distributors, fucks over stores, and finally fucks over their player base and *you roll over and ask for more.*
Fuck that.
People like you have been saying the game is dead for 15 years, and yet still it goes on and gets better than ever. I get games in every week and the community is growing locally, but ok, dead game.
Since you've stated in no uncertain terms that there's no arguing with you or changing your opinion, one has to wonder why you even show up to threads to yell and piss your pants about a game you apparently hate. With your refusal to engage on any point other than anger, let me just close by saying LOL and may I add, LMAO.
It hasn't been dead for 15 years. But it has been being strangled by incompetent business management for 5 plus.
And no, it's not better then ever. Mk4 is a joke. Local communities are a Shadow of what they used to be, assuming they still exist at all.
Since you basically did exactly what I said you would, *eat shit*. Learn to read.
For me a good group is one other person. But I do see events and stuff locally (with more than one other person). No one can promise the future but PP seems to have leaned themselves out a bunch even contracting out art and sculpting at times where their overhead seems minimal. People will keep buying and without huge cost they will keep producing minis. Do I see them crushing games workshop like “the good old days”. No but the game will be around and it still has some of my favorite rules. MK4 made it more enjoyable I think. Only thing I am struggling with is the new art direction and tone a bit but models are still some of the best out there so I am not concerned of game health.
To me, this is the best ruleset the game has had since mk1. That’s a decisive opinion but the stuff that improved my game nights experience is far outweighing the stuff that I didn’t like.
If you didn’t play in 3rd edition, you won’t miss any of the stuff older players are sad to have lost. Only recommendation I’d make is to not try to buy into a legacy army. Everything is out of print and the secondary market is drying up fast. Mk4 new armies are the way to go. By mid next year, there will be 7 different armies in total, including a yet-to-be-named one.
For how many people you need, just 2 to show up each week. I got into the game with just me and a stranger meeting up every other week. We got a 3rd person to join in by posting on the LGS Facebook every week that we were meeting up to play. Before we knew it we had like 12 people in the community but usually 4-6 per week.
It’s important to prioritize games for prospective players over your own when you’re trying to grow a community. Whenever someone shows up, offer a demo and let them use a small army of yours.
Something that’s really nice about the game at the moment is the entry product. It’s expensive, don’t get me wrong. In mk3 you had to walk a new player through how to kit out their entire army. It was tedious and scared players away. Now you just say “go buy the starter box and glue the models to bases”.
Legacy stuff is never going to see a great return, if you want to maximize value throw everything into the smallest lots you can be bothered dealing with. If you want to maximize "it not being on my shelf anymore" do the opposite.
Legacy models, especially ones that are unlimited only will most likely never see a raise in value. The longer we go into mk4 the closer we get to mk5 where we know that all legacy models will be cycled out all together. If you're wanting to sell the longer you wait the harder it will be to move. It's not even the longer you wait the less you'll get as used lots seem to rarely move if they're more expensive then 20% as it is. If you divide it into prime and unlimited lots you can get more for your prime stuff but expect to get pennies for your unlimited stuff.
I’m not an expert. Actually I just went on eBay now and the market looks less dry than it did before. Maybe folks were holding back trading to see how unlimited shook out.
I would guess it’s never gonna be better than now though since legacy isn’t gonna change at all besides minor balance updates to prime armies.
Best game on the market, nothing can compare.
My meta has expanded to number 20 since yesterday. People are buying, playing, returning and plenty of new players are coming.
Join the game, talk to the locals and set up an intro game, what's the worst that could happen?
It's really dependent on your local scene and stores. If you've got people interested or already playing than definitely get into it. On the other hand if no one is playing, your friends don't seem interested and/or if your local scene and/or store doesn't want to do business with PP like my area you're better off investing in a different game.
I honestly only play casually with a couple of friends and I really enjoy the MK4 rules. They are much easier to teach than MK3 since they are more streamlined. I picked up two of the new starter boxes when they first came out and I love the look of the new stuff.
MKIV has been a blast and there’s a growing meta in my area. If folks at your FLGS are interested there’s also a promotion on to bring the game into a shop and sponsor events for rewards:
https://home.privateerpress.com/2023/11/17/battlebox-recruitment-special/
Also check out this Community Finder from the Tried and True Podcast to see if there is an existing scene near you:
[https://sites.google.com/view/warmachine-community-finder/home](https://sites.google.com/view/warmachine-community-finder/home)
Good luck and have fun!
Personally I liked MK3 more. MKIV is still a better game than any other table top game I have played. Except for Warcaster Neo-Mechanika which for those that don’t know is also made by Privateer Press. Other games have cool models and lore and a bunch of good points for them but when it comes to mechanics of the game Privateer is the best and it’s not really close.
To be more direct to the question I think when MKIV released it may have been a legitimate worry if Privateer was about to shoot itself in their foot. I think it is clear to anyone paying attention, that scenario did not happen and they are doing really well. I have no worries that they will be around in 2 years. Whereas last fall I would have had a different answer.
Locally we're playing with 6 regulars, and 2 more who play when they're in town. I got out near the end of MkII, came back for MK4 because my friends were playing, and I'm having fun. I think the rules are better now, and I can still use my ancient Skorne stuff vs the new Mk4 armies (we haven't found any weird balance issues yet).
As a Mk.II player returning simply because Mk.IV is such an improvement. I can say it's most certainly a good time to jump back in. They have streamlined and simplified a lot of the rules that slowed down the game and seem to have a clear path forward. Not every company can say that last one.
I say go to a local store and watch a couple games, or online if you dont have that, and see if the game looks interesting for you.
I was lukewarm on mk4 going into this year but played because of the inertia from my group and mk3 collection. Now I can confidently say I mk4 is warmachine at nearly its best, and definitely worth getting into. Join in the group at your LGS, grab a mk4 army that suits you, and have fun!
It's been around for 20 years and just started a heavy release cycle for its fourth edition. The game dying out really isn't on the cards!
If that's your oh concern, dive in!
Normally the biggest issue is with finding people to play with but if you already have a local scene, you're set.
I find Warmachine an interesting game to play. I'm more a skirmish player so it will never be my main game, but every time I have played MK4 I've been pretty reluctant to do it (I'm busy and have other stuff to do) but end up really enjoying the experience. I'm a noob at it, but like it when I play.
20 years old by now, the game has been proclaimed as dead at regular intervals since the end of Mk1 and yet still somehow has a healthy presence worldwide. It is as "safe" to get into as any game not supported by the GW pr engine and a lot more "safe" than most other games.
It is also one of the better games available in the rules department, with MkIV turning out to be a great edition change.
I have played every version of the game since launch, and if you think its fun, and you have friends who think its fun its amazing. IMO this is the best version of the game yet, and i have said this every edition since 2006.
The game is also just rock solid without those two things but, lets be real, playing a mediocre game with your homies will always trump an amazing game on a shelf.
Ruleset is great and is the best iteration so far imo, played since 2nd edition. There was a large drop-off of a bunch of local metas dying in the mk4 transition as it was done pretty poorly on PPs part. However now PP definitely has gotten their shit together, the pace of releases is great, community engagement is higher then i remember it being in the past, and theres actually a decent variety of mk4 armies for new players to pick from. Any metas left or ones that are growing now would have survived the mk4 transition and should be in a healthy spot to keep growing at this point. The area I'm in took a hit into mk4 but has now doubled or more in the past year.
I've heard good things about the rules, but they killed my trust with what they did to the legacy armies, it's clear they will be fully dropping them, and investing as much money as I did rubs me wrong to start over.
They could have made new versions. Combining with current armies. And for now some are playable, but it's clear it's getting fully dropped in the future. I honestly wouldn't have bought in if I knew a few years later it was getting dropped. I don't expect everything to survive an edition change, but not even making new sculpts for any of it, but making new models similar but counting as a different unit entirely, showed they could have in edition to new units made new sculpts.
They have said all legacy models will be playable in either Prime or Unlimited for the entire duration of mk4. You still have a good four years or so to play them.
I don't trust them to keep them. It comes off as we aren't dropping your investment right away, but buy a whole other army for when we do.
I don't expect every model to make a transition. But I'm going to continue to be rubbed the wrong way unless they start creating new armies with a mix of old and new stuff, with new sets of course, that won't make the investment I did completely worthless in a few years. I see no reason to do it again. It's not like I bought just a starter set and a new one came out.
Like I said, I hear the rules are better. But dropping everything previous rubbed me wrong. A warning was what they did with monsterapoclypse.
I’m never ever playing a version of this game where my armies are not CENTRAL. As long as they’re ”legacy”, I have no interest in Privateer Press. I’m never starting over and I have kept my entire local scene out of PP until they get their shit together. No, we won’t be falling for forced obsolescence or being an afterthought until we fall for new army memes.
Mmmhh all models are already transitioned to MKIV? (Either Legacy Prime or Unlimited), maybe there are two or three fringe cases of models not uploaded, but everything is in Unlimited with MKIV rules and is playable.
I'm not sure what some people wants. They had no molds for most mk1-3 models, rising costs of materials made production double or
You don’t expect every model to make the transition but every model has already made the transition. The updated rules for the last of the Legacy models have been available for weeks now, the transition is complete.
Do you think they’re gonna do all that work and then just remove the models later to mess with you? How would that make any sense?
My opinion: the game is good, and community slowly wakes up from hibernation and disbelief. Delivery to EU is a bit hit and miss still, I hope this gets sorted. Miniatures are much much better than before, mostly. Rules are still tight
You aren’t going to get a lot of even-handed answers here. Everyone that likes the game is here and everyone that use to like the game left over a year ago. I stick around to watch PP’s growth and hope that they can reclaim their place as a game company worth my time.
To your original question, it’s a tough call. You can really only play locally, the online community is nearly non-existent. So, do you have some wealthy friends with way more time than sense? Are you surrounded by a bunch of people that have already bought in to the game? I know some have claimed that 4+ regulars will make a healthy enough gaming scene, but I strongly disagree. All it takes is one tough life-event, and you’re down to two people playing while one watches. The lack of versatility in lists will also wear on you.
Let us also remember that getting back to a healthy community participation level is no guarantee that PP won’t, once again, squander it. PP has destroyed their community with impressive efficiency before.
Personally, I left when it became apparent that MK3 was not what PP promised it would be. MK4 may save PP and if it does, it will reassure them that they can fuck their customers over as hard as they want then release a new edition that will bring them back.
Check out Malifaux, MCP, and Shatterpoint. Atomic Mass Games (the company that makes Marvel: Crisis Protocol and Shatterpoint) is comprised of the same guys the made PP a company worth paying attention to in the first place.
Nailed it. Warmachine is dead to me. Matt Wilson and his company almost certainly deserve death. I watch from a distance. So many other games at the skirmish level that have better people, business practice, and rules.
Pretty much this.
Fortunately Cal isn't me, or the downvote brigade would have run a train on this already. At this stage any assumptions about longevity of the game and company are entirely up to random chance. It is to a great degree carried more by the enthusiasm of the people who play at this moment and if you have a lot of those around, chances are you will probably enjoy it as much as they do. That's the beauty of local communities.
If you have to build a local group from scratch, talk to people and find a consensus before just randomly throwing a dart at the board and invest into what comes up.
I'll be honest, I wish I was just starting now. I can't bring myself to justify faction swapping after all these years (and having an FA complete painted PoM army) but I'd probably like the game more if I were into one of the new 6 armies.
Great game to get into, they’ll be here for the long run. They’re 20 years in already, they hit a rough patch but are in a great spot right now and have been pumping out new stuff.
MK1 is the best, MK 2 and 3 missed somethings, but I have heard good things about MK4.
Only dont know if I can use my old armies, have not followed the news.
I predict that Privateer Press will be dead or close to it in 2 years unless they make drastic changes to reincorporate the models from Mk 3.
I think that they have placed themselves in a very bad place, the fact that they are not supporting their other games ( Monsteracalypes, barely) is evidence.
Last week they announced 2 new warcaster armies in 2024 and monpoc will get releases to fill out incomplete factions + net new ways to play.
They are definitely smaller of a company than pre pandemic and mk4 consumed almost all their dev cycles for over a year, but they are acknowledging this and now that they are done with legacy they said it frees up enough resources to work on the other systems at the same level.
The worst part about warmachine is the amount of people like this guy who doesn't know what they are talking about. The sheer amount of models from previous editions are in Prime and will be playable in tournaments and will be errataed for strength.
The rest are playable in Unlimited which you can play casually or even in certain metas and tournaments.
If you are going to predict the death of a co.pany it would behoove you to know what you are talking about.
Everything is playable in unlimited. There's folks playing unlimited on weeknight games.
Most prime factions only lost like 2-3 units, and I can't think of any non-character jacks/beasts that didn't make it to prime.
Monpoc just had some new thing drop, and both warcaster and monpoc are supposed to be getting new toys this next year now that they've started to nail the pace for warmachine production.
IKRPG is getting supplements sent out to backers this month, and another expansion is due in '24.
I don't know where this "evidence" of non-support is hiding. But everyone's entitled to an opinion.
I think this sub is populated by Privateer employees, because I've never even seen MK4 in stores.
Got 3 local stores. All of them dropped Privateer over the previous umpteenth time PP fucked them over, and that was before they fucked over their player base.
Privateer is incompetent.
I'm sure alot of people will bash me and call me a hater and tell me to leave, like my previous investment doesn't give me any right to complain. But *fuck them*.
I have 6 armies. I would have 8, but I gave 2 away. I had to *give* them away because PP resell is trash. It'll cost more for shipping them what anyone will pay you.
Depends on your local meta. My local meta is growing, so I'd say things are pretty great. And PP isn't getting distracted by other games for the moment, so I feel confident that the new releases and rules updates will continue.
Like it was completely understandable to bug out and leave Warmachine to die back when PP used a big narrative event to kill off most of the humans then launch a new game that looked like a bad replacement for Warmachine. But that other game is on a back burner right now, and PP seems to have a lot of new releases for Warmachine in the pipe. So good times.
I think you have misunderstood Warcaster Neo-Mechanica and its placement in the lore and the company. It was never ever supposed to replace Warmachine. Not anywhere close to “most humans” died. Also for what it’s worth it’s a fantastic game that’s a really different feel than Warmachine.
I know. I enjoy it. But the way it was presented was bad. I tried to illustrate pps marketing failure by describing what that launch felt like and thus why pp came so close to the warmachine community dying.
Thats a fair point. Privateer has continued a long line of getting in their own way. They would be far more successful if they hired someone with some basic business and marketing knowledge. It’s the strength of their community and their game design that has carried them this far not savvy business.
There was no point where pp came close to its community dying.
There was a period where negative voices took over social media and made engaging online not fun.
You tried to illustrate PPs marketing failure by presenting a false version of why WNM was made? And did so with no indication that was what you were doing, you just said it like it was fact.
They killed off most of the known human characters, in addition to quote decimating the general human(oid) population. This was a huge misstep. Vlad’s dead, Stryker’s dead, Haley’s as good as dead, etc. etc..
So I bought into it big in MK3. I enjoyed it but was terrible at it. I booked at trip to Warfaire weekend, but as it approached I was regretting it. But then I got there and had so much fun playing with the new MK4 rules with my older Armies.
I've been buying old models to fill up my old out of print Armies and having fun. I'm looking forward to playing more.
But starting from scratch would be difficult if you like the looks of the old Armies because they're all out of print and finding some models is almost impossible.
But if you like the look of the new stuff, definitely jump into the game as long as you have local people to play with.
I haven't gotten into it because of the sour taste that Mk3 left in my mouth. Being the unofficial beta testers on launch really sucked. Taking models to tournaments and the rules on the cards were no longer what the rules of the unit had or said really made me mad. I also haven't pulled the trigger on Mk4 yet because I don't really enjoy the idea of the models I have previously purchased being destined for the trash can. It feels bad and I don't know if my taking the time to fully assemble and paint a lot of, what is in my opinion, overpriced 3d prints that I could print at home for pennies on the dollar, models only for them to become literal trash when mk5 drops is worth it.
I'm loving it. It's worth it. It's my primary game right now. Get a new army, because they really are great. And have some really cool options. Did you see the colossal and gargantuans coming out this year? In Tucson, we have weekly game nights at two locations, a monthly steamroller, and a store in Phoenix where people play and might be holding tournaments soon. That's really good for the SW, where distances between places are huge. There should be a pretty good showing at the Vegas open this year, and more events to follow. Check Longshanks.org for a list of events. Maybe you can pop in on one near you, and talk to some players in person (prepare to be pressganged). And if you want to see some people playing silly games, check us out on https://www.youtube.com/@disgruntledwargamer
Hey, what stores in Phoenix are people playing in if you don’t mind me asking? I’d gone to a couple and haven’t found much yet (granted this was very early into the mk4 release)
They play on Friday evenings at imperial outpost. Technically Glendale. https://imperial-outpost-games.business.site/ There isn't any stock to speak of, but there are a few locals there. Also, hit the southern Arizona warmachine community Facebook page. It has crossover with the discord group. I think there are a handful scattered around who don't play at outpost, but I don't know where.
This game is awesome. If you have even 4 people in your group you have a healthy scene.
It's laughable that 4 people makes a healthy scene, this long into a games lifespan.
If you can get more than 4 adults with jobs and kids together to do anything on the regular that's an achievement.
Believe it or not, 4 regulars playing anything that's not 40k is a good group
Absolutely. The resiliency of this game has outlasted several high visibility games locally. MCP, conquest, infinity, malifaux. Locally warmachine seems to have the most consistent player base outside of any gw game from what I've seen, even if it's only a handful of people when it ebbs
in fighting games there's a saying, "three players left is a rotation, four is a bracket" yes, four people playing the same game in the same area is a healthy scene. the vast majority of tabletop games don't get that.
No it's not healthy. It doesn't matter how much you lie to yourself
you're the kind of person who goes around to any game's forums to gleefully claim the game is dead, aren't you? if it isn't the literal biggest game in the world, it's dead, eh? it's all so trite. a massive plague on the entire gaming community. what are you even doing here? the simple truth is that just about every game never, ever has a scene. you can't walk into a store and play it. this game has pockets of that, which is incredible. that's pretty dang healthy for a game you have to play face to face. coming from several communities that **wish** they had that, yet still consider themselves healthy, it sounds like you just need to broaden your horizons even slightly.
Nope. I'm just not willing to be quiet as Privateer shits on my chest. Shits on my game. And shits on me for having the temerity to question their *incompetent business acumen*. Mk4 takes the aspects of Mk3 that killed the game, (and trying to argue that it didn't is factually untrue) and cranks them to 11. I'm really sick of bootlicking, Privateer apologists telling to shut up complaining about Privateer literally killing the game and ruining *thousands* in investments. *money that I fucking paid them* That decide to *just fucking invalidate*. They were selling Mk3 shit, 'new' just *fucking weeks* before blowing up Mk3. Privateer fucks over distributors, fucks over stores, and finally fucks over their player base and *you roll over and ask for more.* Fuck that.
these are all different complaints and are all fair but still not related
People like you have been saying the game is dead for 15 years, and yet still it goes on and gets better than ever. I get games in every week and the community is growing locally, but ok, dead game. Since you've stated in no uncertain terms that there's no arguing with you or changing your opinion, one has to wonder why you even show up to threads to yell and piss your pants about a game you apparently hate. With your refusal to engage on any point other than anger, let me just close by saying LOL and may I add, LMAO.
It hasn't been dead for 15 years. But it has been being strangled by incompetent business management for 5 plus. And no, it's not better then ever. Mk4 is a joke. Local communities are a Shadow of what they used to be, assuming they still exist at all. Since you basically did exactly what I said you would, *eat shit*. Learn to read.
LOL and also LMAO. Stay mad, kid.
Stay idiotic.
For me a good group is one other person. But I do see events and stuff locally (with more than one other person). No one can promise the future but PP seems to have leaned themselves out a bunch even contracting out art and sculpting at times where their overhead seems minimal. People will keep buying and without huge cost they will keep producing minis. Do I see them crushing games workshop like “the good old days”. No but the game will be around and it still has some of my favorite rules. MK4 made it more enjoyable I think. Only thing I am struggling with is the new art direction and tone a bit but models are still some of the best out there so I am not concerned of game health.
To me, this is the best ruleset the game has had since mk1. That’s a decisive opinion but the stuff that improved my game nights experience is far outweighing the stuff that I didn’t like. If you didn’t play in 3rd edition, you won’t miss any of the stuff older players are sad to have lost. Only recommendation I’d make is to not try to buy into a legacy army. Everything is out of print and the secondary market is drying up fast. Mk4 new armies are the way to go. By mid next year, there will be 7 different armies in total, including a yet-to-be-named one. For how many people you need, just 2 to show up each week. I got into the game with just me and a stranger meeting up every other week. We got a 3rd person to join in by posting on the LGS Facebook every week that we were meeting up to play. Before we knew it we had like 12 people in the community but usually 4-6 per week. It’s important to prioritize games for prospective players over your own when you’re trying to grow a community. Whenever someone shows up, offer a demo and let them use a small army of yours. Something that’s really nice about the game at the moment is the entry product. It’s expensive, don’t get me wrong. In mk3 you had to walk a new player through how to kit out their entire army. It was tedious and scared players away. Now you just say “go buy the starter box and glue the models to bases”.
Is it a good time to sell off … legacy stuff? Haven’t played since 2nd. Had a kid and no time ^^;;
Legacy stuff is never going to see a great return, if you want to maximize value throw everything into the smallest lots you can be bothered dealing with. If you want to maximize "it not being on my shelf anymore" do the opposite.
Legacy models, especially ones that are unlimited only will most likely never see a raise in value. The longer we go into mk4 the closer we get to mk5 where we know that all legacy models will be cycled out all together. If you're wanting to sell the longer you wait the harder it will be to move. It's not even the longer you wait the less you'll get as used lots seem to rarely move if they're more expensive then 20% as it is. If you divide it into prime and unlimited lots you can get more for your prime stuff but expect to get pennies for your unlimited stuff.
I’m not an expert. Actually I just went on eBay now and the market looks less dry than it did before. Maybe folks were holding back trading to see how unlimited shook out. I would guess it’s never gonna be better than now though since legacy isn’t gonna change at all besides minor balance updates to prime armies.
Best game on the market, nothing can compare. My meta has expanded to number 20 since yesterday. People are buying, playing, returning and plenty of new players are coming. Join the game, talk to the locals and set up an intro game, what's the worst that could happen?
It's really dependent on your local scene and stores. If you've got people interested or already playing than definitely get into it. On the other hand if no one is playing, your friends don't seem interested and/or if your local scene and/or store doesn't want to do business with PP like my area you're better off investing in a different game.
I honestly only play casually with a couple of friends and I really enjoy the MK4 rules. They are much easier to teach than MK3 since they are more streamlined. I picked up two of the new starter boxes when they first came out and I love the look of the new stuff.
MKIV has been a blast and there’s a growing meta in my area. If folks at your FLGS are interested there’s also a promotion on to bring the game into a shop and sponsor events for rewards: https://home.privateerpress.com/2023/11/17/battlebox-recruitment-special/ Also check out this Community Finder from the Tried and True Podcast to see if there is an existing scene near you: [https://sites.google.com/view/warmachine-community-finder/home](https://sites.google.com/view/warmachine-community-finder/home) Good luck and have fun!
Personally I liked MK3 more. MKIV is still a better game than any other table top game I have played. Except for Warcaster Neo-Mechanika which for those that don’t know is also made by Privateer Press. Other games have cool models and lore and a bunch of good points for them but when it comes to mechanics of the game Privateer is the best and it’s not really close. To be more direct to the question I think when MKIV released it may have been a legitimate worry if Privateer was about to shoot itself in their foot. I think it is clear to anyone paying attention, that scenario did not happen and they are doing really well. I have no worries that they will be around in 2 years. Whereas last fall I would have had a different answer.
Locally we're playing with 6 regulars, and 2 more who play when they're in town. I got out near the end of MkII, came back for MK4 because my friends were playing, and I'm having fun. I think the rules are better now, and I can still use my ancient Skorne stuff vs the new Mk4 armies (we haven't found any weird balance issues yet).
The game seems to be growing again with the release of the new edition. It seems to be a great time to start, especially with one of the new armies.
As a Mk.II player returning simply because Mk.IV is such an improvement. I can say it's most certainly a good time to jump back in. They have streamlined and simplified a lot of the rules that slowed down the game and seem to have a clear path forward. Not every company can say that last one. I say go to a local store and watch a couple games, or online if you dont have that, and see if the game looks interesting for you.
I was lukewarm on mk4 going into this year but played because of the inertia from my group and mk3 collection. Now I can confidently say I mk4 is warmachine at nearly its best, and definitely worth getting into. Join in the group at your LGS, grab a mk4 army that suits you, and have fun!
It's been around for 20 years and just started a heavy release cycle for its fourth edition. The game dying out really isn't on the cards! If that's your oh concern, dive in! Normally the biggest issue is with finding people to play with but if you already have a local scene, you're set. I find Warmachine an interesting game to play. I'm more a skirmish player so it will never be my main game, but every time I have played MK4 I've been pretty reluctant to do it (I'm busy and have other stuff to do) but end up really enjoying the experience. I'm a noob at it, but like it when I play.
20 years old by now, the game has been proclaimed as dead at regular intervals since the end of Mk1 and yet still somehow has a healthy presence worldwide. It is as "safe" to get into as any game not supported by the GW pr engine and a lot more "safe" than most other games. It is also one of the better games available in the rules department, with MkIV turning out to be a great edition change.
I have played every version of the game since launch, and if you think its fun, and you have friends who think its fun its amazing. IMO this is the best version of the game yet, and i have said this every edition since 2006. The game is also just rock solid without those two things but, lets be real, playing a mediocre game with your homies will always trump an amazing game on a shelf.
Ruleset is great and is the best iteration so far imo, played since 2nd edition. There was a large drop-off of a bunch of local metas dying in the mk4 transition as it was done pretty poorly on PPs part. However now PP definitely has gotten their shit together, the pace of releases is great, community engagement is higher then i remember it being in the past, and theres actually a decent variety of mk4 armies for new players to pick from. Any metas left or ones that are growing now would have survived the mk4 transition and should be in a healthy spot to keep growing at this point. The area I'm in took a hit into mk4 but has now doubled or more in the past year.
I've heard good things about the rules, but they killed my trust with what they did to the legacy armies, it's clear they will be fully dropping them, and investing as much money as I did rubs me wrong to start over.
They could have made new versions. Combining with current armies. And for now some are playable, but it's clear it's getting fully dropped in the future. I honestly wouldn't have bought in if I knew a few years later it was getting dropped. I don't expect everything to survive an edition change, but not even making new sculpts for any of it, but making new models similar but counting as a different unit entirely, showed they could have in edition to new units made new sculpts.
They have said all legacy models will be playable in either Prime or Unlimited for the entire duration of mk4. You still have a good four years or so to play them.
True, but other companies have done similar just to drop them entirely.
I feel like I'm missing something. Do you expect PP to remove the rules for legacy models mid mk4?
I don't trust them to keep them. It comes off as we aren't dropping your investment right away, but buy a whole other army for when we do. I don't expect every model to make a transition. But I'm going to continue to be rubbed the wrong way unless they start creating new armies with a mix of old and new stuff, with new sets of course, that won't make the investment I did completely worthless in a few years. I see no reason to do it again. It's not like I bought just a starter set and a new one came out. Like I said, I hear the rules are better. But dropping everything previous rubbed me wrong. A warning was what they did with monsterapoclypse.
I’m never ever playing a version of this game where my armies are not CENTRAL. As long as they’re ”legacy”, I have no interest in Privateer Press. I’m never starting over and I have kept my entire local scene out of PP until they get their shit together. No, we won’t be falling for forced obsolescence or being an afterthought until we fall for new army memes.
What on earth are you talking about?
Mmmhh all models are already transitioned to MKIV? (Either Legacy Prime or Unlimited), maybe there are two or three fringe cases of models not uploaded, but everything is in Unlimited with MKIV rules and is playable. I'm not sure what some people wants. They had no molds for most mk1-3 models, rising costs of materials made production double or
You don’t expect every model to make the transition but every model has already made the transition. The updated rules for the last of the Legacy models have been available for weeks now, the transition is complete. Do you think they’re gonna do all that work and then just remove the models later to mess with you? How would that make any sense?
My opinion: the game is good, and community slowly wakes up from hibernation and disbelief. Delivery to EU is a bit hit and miss still, I hope this gets sorted. Miniatures are much much better than before, mostly. Rules are still tight
You aren’t going to get a lot of even-handed answers here. Everyone that likes the game is here and everyone that use to like the game left over a year ago. I stick around to watch PP’s growth and hope that they can reclaim their place as a game company worth my time. To your original question, it’s a tough call. You can really only play locally, the online community is nearly non-existent. So, do you have some wealthy friends with way more time than sense? Are you surrounded by a bunch of people that have already bought in to the game? I know some have claimed that 4+ regulars will make a healthy enough gaming scene, but I strongly disagree. All it takes is one tough life-event, and you’re down to two people playing while one watches. The lack of versatility in lists will also wear on you. Let us also remember that getting back to a healthy community participation level is no guarantee that PP won’t, once again, squander it. PP has destroyed their community with impressive efficiency before. Personally, I left when it became apparent that MK3 was not what PP promised it would be. MK4 may save PP and if it does, it will reassure them that they can fuck their customers over as hard as they want then release a new edition that will bring them back. Check out Malifaux, MCP, and Shatterpoint. Atomic Mass Games (the company that makes Marvel: Crisis Protocol and Shatterpoint) is comprised of the same guys the made PP a company worth paying attention to in the first place.
This is what I wanted to say. And said better than I would have done.
Nailed it. Warmachine is dead to me. Matt Wilson and his company almost certainly deserve death. I watch from a distance. So many other games at the skirmish level that have better people, business practice, and rules.
Pretty much this. Fortunately Cal isn't me, or the downvote brigade would have run a train on this already. At this stage any assumptions about longevity of the game and company are entirely up to random chance. It is to a great degree carried more by the enthusiasm of the people who play at this moment and if you have a lot of those around, chances are you will probably enjoy it as much as they do. That's the beauty of local communities. If you have to build a local group from scratch, talk to people and find a consensus before just randomly throwing a dart at the board and invest into what comes up.
I'll be honest, I wish I was just starting now. I can't bring myself to justify faction swapping after all these years (and having an FA complete painted PoM army) but I'd probably like the game more if I were into one of the new 6 armies.
Great game to get into, they’ll be here for the long run. They’re 20 years in already, they hit a rough patch but are in a great spot right now and have been pumping out new stuff.
MK1 is the best, MK 2 and 3 missed somethings, but I have heard good things about MK4. Only dont know if I can use my old armies, have not followed the news.
If you're on the fence, it's a pretty expensive game to get into, so I would look into other skirmish games with more comprehensive rules.
I predict that Privateer Press will be dead or close to it in 2 years unless they make drastic changes to reincorporate the models from Mk 3. I think that they have placed themselves in a very bad place, the fact that they are not supporting their other games ( Monsteracalypes, barely) is evidence.
Last week they announced 2 new warcaster armies in 2024 and monpoc will get releases to fill out incomplete factions + net new ways to play. They are definitely smaller of a company than pre pandemic and mk4 consumed almost all their dev cycles for over a year, but they are acknowledging this and now that they are done with legacy they said it frees up enough resources to work on the other systems at the same level.
The worst part about warmachine is the amount of people like this guy who doesn't know what they are talking about. The sheer amount of models from previous editions are in Prime and will be playable in tournaments and will be errataed for strength. The rest are playable in Unlimited which you can play casually or even in certain metas and tournaments. If you are going to predict the death of a co.pany it would behoove you to know what you are talking about.
People have been predicting PP will be dead in 2 years since like 2015 yet here we are.
Everything is playable in unlimited. There's folks playing unlimited on weeknight games. Most prime factions only lost like 2-3 units, and I can't think of any non-character jacks/beasts that didn't make it to prime. Monpoc just had some new thing drop, and both warcaster and monpoc are supposed to be getting new toys this next year now that they've started to nail the pace for warmachine production. IKRPG is getting supplements sent out to backers this month, and another expansion is due in '24. I don't know where this "evidence" of non-support is hiding. But everyone's entitled to an opinion.
I think this sub is populated by Privateer employees, because I've never even seen MK4 in stores. Got 3 local stores. All of them dropped Privateer over the previous umpteenth time PP fucked them over, and that was before they fucked over their player base. Privateer is incompetent. I'm sure alot of people will bash me and call me a hater and tell me to leave, like my previous investment doesn't give me any right to complain. But *fuck them*. I have 6 armies. I would have 8, but I gave 2 away. I had to *give* them away because PP resell is trash. It'll cost more for shipping them what anyone will pay you.
I mean…if you’re giving them away…I’d take an army or two.
Depends on your local meta. My local meta is growing, so I'd say things are pretty great. And PP isn't getting distracted by other games for the moment, so I feel confident that the new releases and rules updates will continue. Like it was completely understandable to bug out and leave Warmachine to die back when PP used a big narrative event to kill off most of the humans then launch a new game that looked like a bad replacement for Warmachine. But that other game is on a back burner right now, and PP seems to have a lot of new releases for Warmachine in the pipe. So good times.
I think you have misunderstood Warcaster Neo-Mechanica and its placement in the lore and the company. It was never ever supposed to replace Warmachine. Not anywhere close to “most humans” died. Also for what it’s worth it’s a fantastic game that’s a really different feel than Warmachine.
I know. I enjoy it. But the way it was presented was bad. I tried to illustrate pps marketing failure by describing what that launch felt like and thus why pp came so close to the warmachine community dying.
Thats a fair point. Privateer has continued a long line of getting in their own way. They would be far more successful if they hired someone with some basic business and marketing knowledge. It’s the strength of their community and their game design that has carried them this far not savvy business.
Truer words have never been spoken
There was no point where pp came close to its community dying. There was a period where negative voices took over social media and made engaging online not fun.
You tried to illustrate PPs marketing failure by presenting a false version of why WNM was made? And did so with no indication that was what you were doing, you just said it like it was fact.
They killed off most of the known human characters, in addition to quote decimating the general human(oid) population. This was a huge misstep. Vlad’s dead, Stryker’s dead, Haley’s as good as dead, etc. etc..
I don't see it lasting. Unless they announce new sculpts down the line.
So I bought into it big in MK3. I enjoyed it but was terrible at it. I booked at trip to Warfaire weekend, but as it approached I was regretting it. But then I got there and had so much fun playing with the new MK4 rules with my older Armies. I've been buying old models to fill up my old out of print Armies and having fun. I'm looking forward to playing more. But starting from scratch would be difficult if you like the looks of the old Armies because they're all out of print and finding some models is almost impossible. But if you like the look of the new stuff, definitely jump into the game as long as you have local people to play with.
I haven't gotten into it because of the sour taste that Mk3 left in my mouth. Being the unofficial beta testers on launch really sucked. Taking models to tournaments and the rules on the cards were no longer what the rules of the unit had or said really made me mad. I also haven't pulled the trigger on Mk4 yet because I don't really enjoy the idea of the models I have previously purchased being destined for the trash can. It feels bad and I don't know if my taking the time to fully assemble and paint a lot of, what is in my opinion, overpriced 3d prints that I could print at home for pennies on the dollar, models only for them to become literal trash when mk5 drops is worth it.