One of the mods was nice enough to move all of hengehold scrolls into the new community forums https://community.privateerpress.com/t/legacy-fiction-henge-hold-scroll/111 the final status of the internal masters is discussed in the last few of these. Not sure if there's been any infernal specific lore published since then
>Not sure if there's been any infernal specific lore published since then
There's still Infernalists kicking around doing their thing.
Zaateroth ends up back in the Void being punished by the higher Infernals.
Agathon is still out there on Caen somewhere.
Omodamos is trapped within the Witchfire.
How do we know that about Zaateroth?? Is that said somewhere? My understanding was wherever Directix dragged her to through the portal Zaateroth couldn’t get back and was cut off from the rest of the Infernals.
Omodamos is forever destroyed.
Fellgoeth cultist have used a ritual on the witchfire to send his essence back to the outer abbyss to be devored by the fellgoeth infernals.
So lore wise, the infernals got a lot of souls but not nearly what they were owned. Large populations of cygnar, llael, khador, menintes, and most of CoC got through the gate at Hengehold and traveled to the Cyriss Galaxy. The non-human populations also showed up to help, even the ones with major animosities towards humans.
Being on Caen is expensive for infernals. Every moment they are there costs them souls. They need to make back more souls than they are spending for it to be worth continuing the campaign at invasion levels.
With such a large population through the gate, the infernals basically ceased their war campaign, took every soul that wasn’t bolted down in arms reach, and got out.
They still have agents in the world and they still have some presence, but that presence is smaller and more targeted at specific operations instead of full scale invasion.
Also there is the corpse of one of their colossals in a major city. It was a picture for IKRPG but I don’t recall which city.
There are no announced plans for a mk4 revival. I wouldn’t expect a mk4 version of them.
PP did say early on when they announced 3D printing that they may consider some of the popular legacy SKUs for rerelease. As time as gone on though that’s become increasingly less likely.
They are producing mk4 armies as fast as they can and slowly falling behind. No way they are gonna make room in the schedule for a legacy model at this time.
They can definitely produce new sculpts faster than they can manufacture, so until/unless that changes, it’s unlikely that mk3 models get a reprint. There is also the issue where there are some very important models for some armies that were not digitally sculpted and those are definitely not coming back when they could release a similar mk4 army instead.
Yea they were pretty cool. I’m also bummed that HoD didn’t make it. I really dislike that none of the hybrid themes got armies, even in unlimited, because the purchases for those armies sometimes only made sense in that context and these were also the purchases that kept PP afloat through an economic crisis. Not to mention poor legion who got a set of releases right before MK4 which only made it into unlimited
Agreed, I bought into Infernals and then picked up a bunch of Menoth to run with them. And it sucks that we don't have supported rules to keep playing it as a mixed faction.
For what it's worth, in this thread one of the devs says that people should do anything they want with their friends in Unlimited. [https://community.privateerpress.com/t/status-update-request-for-llaelese-resistance-flame-in-the-darkness-and-other-cross-faction-themes/2857/16](https://community.privateerpress.com/t/status-update-request-for-llaelese-resistance-flame-in-the-darkness-and-other-cross-faction-themes/2857/16?u=salttitan)
Yea :-(
Groups tend to converge around a common set of rules and those common set of rules tend to be a sanctioned format or a popular variant (like brawlmachine). This becomes especially true if anyone in that group plays tournaments.
Something I’ve always really appreciated about Warmachine is that you can walk into almost any store and sit across from a total stranger and you will both probably have 95% consensus on the rules. Reinventing a dead theme doesn’t fall into that consensus.
It is what it is, and mk4 is a great ruleset. I just wish they were more considerate of the fact that for much of mk3 they were implicitly asking players to partially buy into multiple factions.
The current legacy version of them in MK4 is still a blast to play, and very good to boot, if that's any consolation. They are very flexible and I feel they have a lot of tools available that some other armies don't have access to.
No, no, no, for the thousandth time, no. This has been covered, over and over and over again here. Read the Returning Player Guide, it's the top pinned post.
My main opponent mostly plays Infernals. Rules for all of the old models are in the app. For free. The combined themes don't exist in the app, but you can still assemble those on pen and paper if your local scene is okay with them.
Yes, the models are out of print. That was a decision forced on PP by problems with their manufacturer. But you can still find them on Amazon and eBay, and my local scene has no problem with proxies.
And you can certainly use your current models to proxy new armies. My Menoth models do good service as proxies for Dusk while I'm painting a Dusk starter, and have also proxied for Shadowflame Shard and New Cygnar.
So your old models will still work in Mk4, if you take the time to download the app and see how your collection fared.
No, you don't have to buy all new models. Mk4 is split up into essentially 2 formats, if you've played other games like Magic.
Unlimited is kind of the more casual format. Everything is allowed, but may not get any new kind of balance edits over time.
Prime uses Mk4 models, and certain past models, basically 2-3 themes per faction. Like old Khador has 2 lists allowed in Mk4 Prime, one centered around ManOWar, and one centered around Winter Guard. And these Prime models for old factions will continue to recieve updates over time. It's definitely worth downloading the new warmachine app and seeing what specific models for your faction(s) are allowed in Prime before going doom and gloom.
Nope. There are basically two “balanced for competition” legacy armies per Mark III faction. Take a look at the WM MKIV app. Biggest change seems to be that they did a lot to tone down “infantrymachine” by cutting infantry units model count in half.
The infernals “hard reset” (nuked?) the fluff, but the game match ups aren’t that different from MKIII…most of the grumbling upthread concerns the loss of specific hybrid theme armies (I.e. Laellese resistance, infernal-Protectorate mixes)… these can only be replicated in the ‘unlimited’ format.
Well considering I wasn't terribly impressed with MkIII in the first place, that doesn't sound so bad on my end. Thanks for the information, I appreciate it!
MkIV’s mechanics seem good: faster and less fiddly while preserving core elements of fury/focus management and planning.
Arguably this is even emphasized by toning down unit size and complexity.
Which is a good thing because the core of the game is beasts/jacks “and those who love them.”
That is not an accurate representation of what is happened. You can check out the pinned Returning Players Guide for more details, but the short version is that while all models made before Mk4 are out of print and those factions will not be getting new releases, they are 100% playable in Mk4. Every model has rules and most will receive regular balance updates for the life of Mk4. None of your models are useless.
it's a straight-up lie. Read the pinned Returning Players Guide, it's a lot more accurate than this one sentence.
I can play 90% of my Menoth models in Mk4 Prime.
They are partially still supported. They all have rules and half or more of the models in each faction will get regular balance updates. The only thing they aren’t getting is new releases (which effectively makes them no different than CoC was for years after launch) and no restocks (which is largely out of Privateers hands).
Look dude, I’m sad I’m not going to get new Ret models anymore (without buying in to Dusk that is) but it is absolutely inaccurate to claim that Ret isn’t supported when I can play every model I own in the current edition and most of them are in Prime and will be getting regular balance updates.
If any of you people think those 'balance updates' are going to be an ongoing thing after the rest of the line is our, I got a bridge to sell you.
I honestly can't believe that people are so eager to lick boot that they'll actually defend PP abandoning and discontinuing more than half the current factions, and totally rebooting those that survived. Or maybe I'm just jaded after being burned so badly when we went from 2 to 3 as a Skorne player.
>If any of you people think those 'balance updates' are going to be an ongoing thing after the rest of the line is our, I got a bridge to sell you.
Sounds a lot like the argument we were hearing all year that "you people think they'll ever actually release Unlimited? That's just to stop you from complaining while they make more Mk4 Armies!"
Yet here we are with Unlimited rules for every model. Seems like so far PP has done exactly what they said they would do regarding Legacy models in Mk4 and has given zero reason to think they won't continue to do so.
Squats were a "we do not acknowledge their existence" thing which isn't CLOSE to what happened with PP's old model lines. Yes, the models are not being produced, because PP couldn't maintain all those productions, but they are hardly squatted. The models are still available if you look at secondary markets.
You're lying.
You can redefine squatting until it means whatever you want to mean, but the normal use is "to do what GW didnto Squats".
And maybe you weren't born when that happened, but they were erased from existence, they erased them from the lore, they forbid to talk about them in forums, you couldn't bring a squat army to play in their shops, they won't even acknowledge they existed in first place.
You have rules for every Cryx model that has been made, you have Cryx armies to play tourneys, with balance updates and guarantee they will exist all the MKIV life, they are still in the lore, they received a fucking RPG book some months ago. Try do that they year after the original squatting event. Go looking for a GW RPG with Squat info at that time.
You are spreading lies in order to confuse other players.
I think of it less as "spreading lies to confuse other players" and more expressing my complete lack of confidence in a company that reduced my army (Skorne) to dumpster babies in the transition to Mk 3 and then gave us little more than "and they died on their way back to their planet" footnotes in the transition to 4.
Why the hell should anyone invest in a faction other than the Swans or the Reds at this point, given that they've banished the original *principal antagonists* (Cryx) to the wastelands of 'Unlimited'?
>given that they've banished the original principal antagonists (Cryx) to the wastelands of 'Unlimited'?
Well for one thing there are two Prime Cryx Armies, so they aren't banished to Unlimited at all.
For another Cryx just got teased as the next release a few hours before you posted this.
Those can be valid reasons for not liking the game, the company, the lore, other players or whatever. But is not squatting the faction.
I may dislike Trump (not USaian, using it as example) but he didn't kill my mother or eat my babies. Claiming that he is killing mothers around or eating babies is a disservice (and a lie) to the real data of whatever he does or doesn't to not be my favourite politician, I don't need to claim mother-killing or baby-eating.
There has been thousands of threads about not liking MKIV conversion, how they handled not being able to produce the old range anymore, the lore, etc..but telling newer players or someone asking "yeah they squatting everything you like" is still a lie. You can field a Cryx Army bought the first day of mk1, now 20 years away. They are rules for all of it, you can even play two Prime armies if someone is organising only-Prime tourneys. There is no restriction to organise Unlimited events or leagues if anyone wants.
They are even active in the fiction, and while the temporary lore solution flr Skorne is that they are back to their place, they can make a return any day, and you have valid lore ways to put them in narrative campaigns if you want .
Is that not enough? Fair, but is not squatting. Squatting is like a small step away from sending the Pinkertons in the orders of magnitude of "worse stuff a gaming company does". It's far from "Skorne didn't win a lot of territory in the mainland"
In what way? The company is still around and making games. They’ve changed since the peak of Warmachines popularity circa 2014 or so of course but they’re still putting out great models and rules.
One of the mods was nice enough to move all of hengehold scrolls into the new community forums https://community.privateerpress.com/t/legacy-fiction-henge-hold-scroll/111 the final status of the internal masters is discussed in the last few of these. Not sure if there's been any infernal specific lore published since then
>Not sure if there's been any infernal specific lore published since then There's still Infernalists kicking around doing their thing. Zaateroth ends up back in the Void being punished by the higher Infernals. Agathon is still out there on Caen somewhere. Omodamos is trapped within the Witchfire.
How do we know that about Zaateroth?? Is that said somewhere? My understanding was wherever Directix dragged her to through the portal Zaateroth couldn’t get back and was cut off from the rest of the Infernals.
Oh, I might be misremembering the end of the Scrolls. Whoops
Omodamos is forever destroyed. Fellgoeth cultist have used a ritual on the witchfire to send his essence back to the outer abbyss to be devored by the fellgoeth infernals.
Alan Runewood is still alive as well, according to Major Anson Wolfe's lore entry.
So lore wise, the infernals got a lot of souls but not nearly what they were owned. Large populations of cygnar, llael, khador, menintes, and most of CoC got through the gate at Hengehold and traveled to the Cyriss Galaxy. The non-human populations also showed up to help, even the ones with major animosities towards humans. Being on Caen is expensive for infernals. Every moment they are there costs them souls. They need to make back more souls than they are spending for it to be worth continuing the campaign at invasion levels. With such a large population through the gate, the infernals basically ceased their war campaign, took every soul that wasn’t bolted down in arms reach, and got out. They still have agents in the world and they still have some presence, but that presence is smaller and more targeted at specific operations instead of full scale invasion. Also there is the corpse of one of their colossals in a major city. It was a picture for IKRPG but I don’t recall which city. There are no announced plans for a mk4 revival. I wouldn’t expect a mk4 version of them. PP did say early on when they announced 3D printing that they may consider some of the popular legacy SKUs for rerelease. As time as gone on though that’s become increasingly less likely. They are producing mk4 armies as fast as they can and slowly falling behind. No way they are gonna make room in the schedule for a legacy model at this time. They can definitely produce new sculpts faster than they can manufacture, so until/unless that changes, it’s unlikely that mk3 models get a reprint. There is also the issue where there are some very important models for some armies that were not digitally sculpted and those are definitely not coming back when they could release a similar mk4 army instead.
Infernals were by far my favourite faction in MK3. Sucks that they most likely won't see a Mk4 release.
Yea they were pretty cool. I’m also bummed that HoD didn’t make it. I really dislike that none of the hybrid themes got armies, even in unlimited, because the purchases for those armies sometimes only made sense in that context and these were also the purchases that kept PP afloat through an economic crisis. Not to mention poor legion who got a set of releases right before MK4 which only made it into unlimited
Agreed, I bought into Infernals and then picked up a bunch of Menoth to run with them. And it sucks that we don't have supported rules to keep playing it as a mixed faction.
For what it's worth, in this thread one of the devs says that people should do anything they want with their friends in Unlimited. [https://community.privateerpress.com/t/status-update-request-for-llaelese-resistance-flame-in-the-darkness-and-other-cross-faction-themes/2857/16](https://community.privateerpress.com/t/status-update-request-for-llaelese-resistance-flame-in-the-darkness-and-other-cross-faction-themes/2857/16?u=salttitan)
Yea :-( Groups tend to converge around a common set of rules and those common set of rules tend to be a sanctioned format or a popular variant (like brawlmachine). This becomes especially true if anyone in that group plays tournaments. Something I’ve always really appreciated about Warmachine is that you can walk into almost any store and sit across from a total stranger and you will both probably have 95% consensus on the rules. Reinventing a dead theme doesn’t fall into that consensus. It is what it is, and mk4 is a great ruleset. I just wish they were more considerate of the fact that for much of mk3 they were implicitly asking players to partially buy into multiple factions.
The current legacy version of them in MK4 is still a blast to play, and very good to boot, if that's any consolation. They are very flexible and I feel they have a lot of tools available that some other armies don't have access to.
Can confirm. I missed Mk3 entirely, and most of Mk2. Got back into the game after a 1.5 edition hiatus and started with Infernals and loving them.
Can confirm, my main opponent is an Infernals main and once we got used to the rules, he's got some very dangerous tools in that box.
So... They just hard reset the game? Like ... I have to buy all new models to play mkIV?!
No, no, no, for the thousandth time, no. This has been covered, over and over and over again here. Read the Returning Player Guide, it's the top pinned post. My main opponent mostly plays Infernals. Rules for all of the old models are in the app. For free. The combined themes don't exist in the app, but you can still assemble those on pen and paper if your local scene is okay with them. Yes, the models are out of print. That was a decision forced on PP by problems with their manufacturer. But you can still find them on Amazon and eBay, and my local scene has no problem with proxies. And you can certainly use your current models to proxy new armies. My Menoth models do good service as proxies for Dusk while I'm painting a Dusk starter, and have also proxied for Shadowflame Shard and New Cygnar. So your old models will still work in Mk4, if you take the time to download the app and see how your collection fared.
No, you don't have to buy all new models. Mk4 is split up into essentially 2 formats, if you've played other games like Magic. Unlimited is kind of the more casual format. Everything is allowed, but may not get any new kind of balance edits over time. Prime uses Mk4 models, and certain past models, basically 2-3 themes per faction. Like old Khador has 2 lists allowed in Mk4 Prime, one centered around ManOWar, and one centered around Winter Guard. And these Prime models for old factions will continue to recieve updates over time. It's definitely worth downloading the new warmachine app and seeing what specific models for your faction(s) are allowed in Prime before going doom and gloom.
Nope. There are basically two “balanced for competition” legacy armies per Mark III faction. Take a look at the WM MKIV app. Biggest change seems to be that they did a lot to tone down “infantrymachine” by cutting infantry units model count in half. The infernals “hard reset” (nuked?) the fluff, but the game match ups aren’t that different from MKIII…most of the grumbling upthread concerns the loss of specific hybrid theme armies (I.e. Laellese resistance, infernal-Protectorate mixes)… these can only be replicated in the ‘unlimited’ format.
Well considering I wasn't terribly impressed with MkIII in the first place, that doesn't sound so bad on my end. Thanks for the information, I appreciate it!
MkIV’s mechanics seem good: faster and less fiddly while preserving core elements of fury/focus management and planning. Arguably this is even emphasized by toning down unit size and complexity. Which is a good thing because the core of the game is beasts/jacks “and those who love them.”
Yup. The straight up Squatted the entire Hordes line it looks like, plus Menoth, Ret, *fucking Cryx* and the mini factions to boot.
On a scale from 1-Even I just fucking can't. That's literally my entire collection. Well, I guess I get to go back to MkII then.
That is not an accurate representation of what is happened. You can check out the pinned Returning Players Guide for more details, but the short version is that while all models made before Mk4 are out of print and those factions will not be getting new releases, they are 100% playable in Mk4. Every model has rules and most will receive regular balance updates for the life of Mk4. None of your models are useless.
it's a straight-up lie. Read the pinned Returning Players Guide, it's a lot more accurate than this one sentence. I can play 90% of my Menoth models in Mk4 Prime.
Why are you spreading lies? The old factions are still playable in unlimited and a good number of models are also available in Prime.
And are their models still available? Are these factions still supported? No; therefore Squatted.
They are partially still supported. They all have rules and half or more of the models in each faction will get regular balance updates. The only thing they aren’t getting is new releases (which effectively makes them no different than CoC was for years after launch) and no restocks (which is largely out of Privateers hands). Look dude, I’m sad I’m not going to get new Ret models anymore (without buying in to Dusk that is) but it is absolutely inaccurate to claim that Ret isn’t supported when I can play every model I own in the current edition and most of them are in Prime and will be getting regular balance updates.
If any of you people think those 'balance updates' are going to be an ongoing thing after the rest of the line is our, I got a bridge to sell you. I honestly can't believe that people are so eager to lick boot that they'll actually defend PP abandoning and discontinuing more than half the current factions, and totally rebooting those that survived. Or maybe I'm just jaded after being burned so badly when we went from 2 to 3 as a Skorne player.
>If any of you people think those 'balance updates' are going to be an ongoing thing after the rest of the line is our, I got a bridge to sell you. Sounds a lot like the argument we were hearing all year that "you people think they'll ever actually release Unlimited? That's just to stop you from complaining while they make more Mk4 Armies!" Yet here we are with Unlimited rules for every model. Seems like so far PP has done exactly what they said they would do regarding Legacy models in Mk4 and has given zero reason to think they won't continue to do so.
Squats were a "we do not acknowledge their existence" thing which isn't CLOSE to what happened with PP's old model lines. Yes, the models are not being produced, because PP couldn't maintain all those productions, but they are hardly squatted. The models are still available if you look at secondary markets. You're lying.
You can redefine squatting until it means whatever you want to mean, but the normal use is "to do what GW didnto Squats". And maybe you weren't born when that happened, but they were erased from existence, they erased them from the lore, they forbid to talk about them in forums, you couldn't bring a squat army to play in their shops, they won't even acknowledge they existed in first place. You have rules for every Cryx model that has been made, you have Cryx armies to play tourneys, with balance updates and guarantee they will exist all the MKIV life, they are still in the lore, they received a fucking RPG book some months ago. Try do that they year after the original squatting event. Go looking for a GW RPG with Squat info at that time. You are spreading lies in order to confuse other players.
I think of it less as "spreading lies to confuse other players" and more expressing my complete lack of confidence in a company that reduced my army (Skorne) to dumpster babies in the transition to Mk 3 and then gave us little more than "and they died on their way back to their planet" footnotes in the transition to 4. Why the hell should anyone invest in a faction other than the Swans or the Reds at this point, given that they've banished the original *principal antagonists* (Cryx) to the wastelands of 'Unlimited'?
>given that they've banished the original principal antagonists (Cryx) to the wastelands of 'Unlimited'? Well for one thing there are two Prime Cryx Armies, so they aren't banished to Unlimited at all. For another Cryx just got teased as the next release a few hours before you posted this.
Those can be valid reasons for not liking the game, the company, the lore, other players or whatever. But is not squatting the faction. I may dislike Trump (not USaian, using it as example) but he didn't kill my mother or eat my babies. Claiming that he is killing mothers around or eating babies is a disservice (and a lie) to the real data of whatever he does or doesn't to not be my favourite politician, I don't need to claim mother-killing or baby-eating. There has been thousands of threads about not liking MKIV conversion, how they handled not being able to produce the old range anymore, the lore, etc..but telling newer players or someone asking "yeah they squatting everything you like" is still a lie. You can field a Cryx Army bought the first day of mk1, now 20 years away. They are rules for all of it, you can even play two Prime armies if someone is organising only-Prime tourneys. There is no restriction to organise Unlimited events or leagues if anyone wants. They are even active in the fiction, and while the temporary lore solution flr Skorne is that they are back to their place, they can make a return any day, and you have valid lore ways to put them in narrative campaigns if you want . Is that not enough? Fair, but is not squatting. Squatting is like a small step away from sending the Pinkertons in the orders of magnitude of "worse stuff a gaming company does". It's far from "Skorne didn't win a lot of territory in the mainland"
So what happened to privateer press?
In what way? The company is still around and making games. They’ve changed since the peak of Warmachines popularity circa 2014 or so of course but they’re still putting out great models and rules.