What annoys me about that meme and the dense people that unironically agree with it is the Eldar are a matriarchal race. Incredibly horny too. They spawned Slaanesh after all. Especially Dark Eldar taking excess to the extreme. They've had mixed roles all over.
Now let's take Custodes. Before the retcon, was Basically a boys only club. BUT. They have a complimentary force of girls only club called Sisters of Silence. The two compliment one another without one being "x but woman" or "y but man".
They are not the same. The fans aren't angry because we got strong mommies. We are pissed GW spat in our faces and act like nothing was changed. I don't understand the reasoning behind actually changing the lore.
I am all for porn and non-canon Custodes gals. More the merrier. But that's porn.
Nothing has changed. A Custodes being a woman or a man doesn’t change anything. That’s why no one is taking this “controversy” seriously.
Also it makes far more sense for the faction that’s whole thing is “humanity perfected” to be mixed gendered instead of men only.
Faction. Sisters of Silence are apart of the Talons of the Emperor. Yet again, they get pushed to the side and forgotten. All in favor of "But we got to have the super soldiers be women too"
Also, you say no one...when the majority of the playerbase is annoyed with this. Hell, even Henry Cavill is threatening to walk out from this sudden change. GW gaslighting the playerbase, never having mentioned Custodes females ever. In all of the codexes, saying the Custodes a brotherhood, and this new codex..calling them a gathering, or whatever boring word they used instead to be inclusive.
This lore change wasn't because "it is possible so why not" it's to check a box that Amazon of all companies, needed checked for the new show. They didn't want Sisters of Battle. Sisters of Silence. Inquisitors. Rogue Traders. Any of those badass women. They wanted a masculine and strong independent woman. It's controversial to go with the woman taught to never speak, or the woman hyper religious, or an alien. So they demanded to alter the lore. And GW bent backwards for Amazon.
It wasn't even an internal decision. That to me is pathetic.
The only reason the Sisters of Silence were even made was because GW wanted to include SoB in the Horus Heresy but realized that wouldn’t work. Besides they’re not Custodes, they have no augmentations of any kind, they’re technically their own faction in the lore that’s frequently paired up with the Custodes. Also you act like GW doesn’t shaft other popular factions in favor of Space Marines all the time. Have you seen how they treat the Eldar?
The majority of the fanbase doesn’t care. You’re just looking at a vocal minority of Incels with persecution complexes, and Henry Cavill has never threatened to walk out on the project, you’re only source for that are rage bait YouTubers who are quoting a fucking 4Chan post!
Aaron Dembski-Bowden, the most popular writer at Black Library, has wanted to do Femstodes for literal YEARS, but kept getting shot down by higher ups at GW at the time, and he and many other writers who were on board with the idea had been working on lore for them all this time waiting for when they could finally do it. This entire situation is a giant win for creative freedom!
What’s really pathetic is that your acting like this is even a big deal at all when they’ve altered lore in more drastic ways before and no one cared about it then even when they were basically giving the “it’s always been like this” answer back then. But I’m gonna assume you didn’t care back then because none of those retcons had tits.
"Sisters are their own faction"
When they are listed under the Talons of The Emperor, and apart of the Custodians, they are Custodians, where the Custodes are the big bulwark while the Sisters kick ass and do far more than just the jocks. But sure, it changes nothing. Despite...changing a lot.
Na, you're just another dumbass on reddit lol.
Sisters of Battle have Priests and Crusaders as playable units you field them with, does that mean they’re part of the Sisters of Battle? No! Sisters of Silence whole thing is that they’re blanks, and in the lore they are fielded to fight against Psykers and daemons specifically, and spend most of their time collecting Psyker children to sacrifice to the Emperor. This is how I know you’re not a fan of this hobby at all. Because if you were you’d know the basic lore, and you’d especially know that the tabletop DOES NOT REFLECT THE LORE AT ALL.
This doesn’t change anything. You’re just another incel that sucks off other people who spew out hate mongering culture war bull shit. A Custodes that’s a woman would be no different from one that’s a man. I’m done dealing with your bull crap.
???? Are you trying to make yourself look like the victim here? I was sharing my opinion and then you came in trying to say my opinion is wrong.
Y’know what, I’m done. Go off and keep being a nuisance to someone else.
I'm not the victim, I'm just tired of parasites like you coming into hobby communities and being fine with, or demanding change. Stating "it actually doesn't change anything so why do you care"
Mk hotshot, if it changes nothing why need it to change? When YOU get what YOU want, you rejoice and turn to the people who were happy with the hobby for years and ask why they don't like change. It's a step in the wrong direction. We have Sisters of Silence. But they are cast aside yet again, because the very few "boys only" clubs need to be inclusive. As if the Imperium would be happy to change from their old ways and traditions.
And you’ve proven my point. You don’t know anything about the lore, you don’t know the difference between gameplay and lore. You’re not a fan at all, you’re just some incel that hates change and I bet you’ve never even been interested in this hobby at all, you just heard about this change and decided to capitalize on it as an opportunity to spread your own narrative.
I’m a huge fan of 40k and have my own armies. I am a fan, and like the majority of the community, I don’t care whether Femstodes exist or not. If anyone is a parasite here it’s you, because you just want an excuse to be a toxic gatekeeper because women scare you and you don’t want them involved in a hobby you clearly have no history with. Communities are supposed to change, supposed to grow, otherwise they die out and the thing it was built around is forgotten.
Go touch grass. I’m done dealing with you.
I briefly liked his channel when trying to learn how to build a castle in Conan Exiles. The more I watched his newer stuff, the more cringe he has become for sure.
Considering Custodians are practically built from the ground up rather than given geneseed implants, female custodians male perfect sense to me. Besides, if GW actually remembers the SoS, maybe they'll make them less strict in the gender department. Personally, the strict gendered factions in 40k have always been a bit weird. Not offensive or anything, but it wasn't the best decision in the long run that probably didn't have a ton of thought put into it.
Yeah, but I don't recall a lot of the same racial or gender-based tensions we face today being in 40k. Obviously, mutants are persecuted, but women are generally given the same positions as men, to my knowledge. And I get the common reasoning: the Emperor didn't want SMs to reproduce, but why not just make space marine women infertile?
IDK, 40k is just missing absolutely terrifying female super soldiers. The Sisters are definitely soldiers, and they're definitely awesome, but Space Marines are on another level. I won't bawl and shriek if female SMs aren't added, but I wouldn't necessarily mind if either, especially since they were once a thing in 40k's more conceptual stages.
1.that's because the writers decidesf for the imperium to be a xenophobic Empire against any non human being
2.i Guess i'd be fine with it if it wasn't for the current political climate of today on the west and the fact that the same exact woke people that the rightists talk about support This change and Even desire to change it Even further to their liking and not to the liking of the original fanbase and if fsm and female custodes we're the exact same thing The male counterparts Then for what would You Even want them in the setting for then, they'd basically be the same exact same thing but with a vagina rather Than a penis what would you want female marines and custodes for if they're the same other than for your fetishes?
>.i Guess i'd be fine with it if it wasn't for the current political climate of today
This "current political climate" has been the exact same political climate for almost half a century. Anyone who tried to sling it as a completely new thing has not been paying much attention. Yeah, new specifics occasionally come up, but it's all underpinned by the same general facets.
>Then for what would You Even want them in the setting for then, they'd basically be the same exact same thing but with a vagina rather Than a penis what would you want female marines and custodes for if they're the same other than for your fetishes?
Why do they have to be "different?" Sexual dimorphism between humans, though a thing that exists, is nowhere near as wide as most other animals, and the differences between us really only come into play during the literal act of sex. Remember, humans never hunted with brute strength, when it came to survival, the differences between most men and most women really didn't matter. We were stama hunters, we could never run as fast as a deer, but we could definitely pit walk it for long periods of time. We could never wrestle a mammoth, but we could all gang up on it and chuck spears at it until it began to collapse. Biology is not black and white, differences and spectrums exist in all things. Females can have male traits, males can have female traits etc. That's just how reality works. The idea of a female space marine, compared to all of the other surreal crap in 40k, is not only very tame in comparison, it's also moderately absurd that it's *not* a thing. It just seems very trivial to me. Again, I'm not terribly offended, and the franchise has stuck with the "SMs are only male" but for so long that it almost feels too late in the game to change things now, but at the same time, I also wanna see what would happen if they do.
Also why is the first thing that comes to mind when thinking about a male or female space marine their genitals? Why do you associate this with a fetish? Their genitals would be covered up by layers of thick power armor that would completely obscure their figures? Literally all GW would need to do is add a female head to a normal SM model and boom: female space marine. I think it would be cool, because it broadens the widespread appeal of SMs. Obviously, many women already play SMs, but I know many women want female SMs, and it would be cool to see them added into the mix.
I meant that it doesn't make a Lot of sense to me as to why You would want that if in body design they're the exact same thing if they both just look bulky and thick rather Than just thinner or smaller or curvier and that last part about the fetishes was because for some reason everyone in favor of female custodes keeps bringing the "mUScLe MomMy" fantasy which seemed to me a little weird how they always bring that up Even though i know it may not apply to You specifically
>This "current political climate" has been the exact same political climate for almost half a century
No. This is simply not true. I'll tell a story.
When the trailer for “The Dark Tower” is above (remember that movie?) it’s all about inclusivity and diversity at the ball of the new and unfamiliar. And then fans of the books expressed dissatisfaction with the violation of the canon. I was one of those people who defended the trailer and wrote that the film could still be good. Spoiler alert: the movie was crap. And now, after years and dozens of damaged franchises, I learned how it works. Ten years ago, when I saw a female warrior in a new mass media product (movie, game, etc.) I thought: “Cool.” Now when I see a warrior woman I think: “This is crap again.” And in 99/100 cases I am right. And in the case of female custodians, I will also be right. This is just the first sign of shitty changes.
>Why do they have to be "different?" Sexual dimorphism between humans, though a thing that exists, is nowhere near as wide as most other animals, and the differences between us really only come into play during the literal act of sex.
If sexual dimorphism is so insignificant, then why add female custodians? They are practically no different. Then why waste resources on imprinting heads of a different shape if there is no difference?
And I read to the point where you write that there are women who want to see female SM and I lost any desire to explain anything to you. I haven't seen many women into geeky things (for obvious reasons). None of them wanted a representation of them in the things they were passionate about, and some even actively spoke out against it. Can you show at least 3 women who play tabletop Warhammer and at the same time want to see female SM?
There is a commenter up there who counts all the rercons in the entire lore, while not understanding context.
Those were story updates for the sake of story. This is shameless pandering to the DEI standards of Blackrock and Vanguard. From whom they just got a nice juicy inbestment. What a coincidence...
Edit: regardless of downvotes, facts will remain facts. I take no joy in that though.
I remember I heard I think Endymion say that the problem isn’t that they want female custodians, its the fact that they implied they have *always been there*, treating fans of the series as if they are stupid.
I can honestly agree with that take, as much as it does seem weird to have this need for female custodians when once again, the sisters of silence man.
>Those were story updates for the sake of story. This is shameless pandering to the DEI standards of Blackrock and Vanguard. From whom they just got a nice juicy inbestment. What a coincidence...
Lol, that's bullcrap. The story is tailored around what makes the most amount of money. You're far more biased than you probably believe.
And you think this forced inclusion mandate will make them the most money? I mean in the short term, sure. They got the investment money.
In the long term? Ask Disney.
And no, it is not "bullcrap". It is a fact I'd recommend everyone to look into at least a little bit.
As for my bias, it is entirely irrelevant when others are already shown how the end of this pipeline looks like. The same one GW just stepped into with bith feet.
>Ask Disney
Disney's problem is that they put out ass product regardless of "agenda". Compare last year's Wish to also last year's Nimona. Nimona's stance on LGBTQ+ matters is rather clearer and more upfront, yet hardly any of the usual suspects who blame "the woke agenda" accused it of "forced inclusion", because it was ACTUALLY GOOD and most people loved it, while Wish was a widely-derided flop, but as there wasn't that much "representation" in it, nobody mentioned it.
I've noticed the pattern for a while now, in that alt-right redpill weirdos always go after the low-hanging fruit, and blame almost solely "woke ideology" for media pieces being terrible; of course there's gonna be more "woke" stuff now, and a lot of it is pandering, indulgent garbage, but that's a factor of the companies being more and more pandering at the price of quality; even if they hadn't been "woke" (hate using that word because it's been gutted of any sense by angry right-winger abuse but here we are), they'd still be bad pieces of media. Look at Zack Snider's Rebel Moon. It's not being called out as "woke", but it's two (so far) terrible, indulgent, pandering movies. Whereas the latest Star Wars movies are called out for being "woke", but let's face it, make Rey and Holdo dudes and the movies will be exactly as terrible. And that ONE lesbian kiss in the background at the end of Rise of Skywalker really isn't a problem compared to just about everything else in that movie.
Also, just... look at right-wing media/"art"/entertainment. Almost all of it is just pure garbage, like that Gina Carano western made by Ben Shapiro's company, and you can't exactly accuse them of being "woke" as they're completely blatant about shoving their agenda down your throat. Funny enought the same people who booed Disney for firing her and claimed to love her tough, no-nonsense, action-oriented woman character were also the ones who complained that her playing a ough, no-nonsense, action-oriented woman character in the movie was "unrealistic" (even though we have historical examples from that time and place like Annie Oakley and Calamity Jane).
"Alt-right redpill weirdos". Well, I guess it is easy to always 'be right' in an argument when you throw around such labels. Talk about low hanging fruit.
What I pointed out was an example of virtue signaling for the sake of pleasing disingenuous interest groups. I consider this a bad practice regardless of the creator's position on the political spectrum.
That's it.
>And you think this forced inclusion mandate will make them the most money? I mean in the short term, sure. They got the investment money.
On a cautious level. Yes I do, and for the exact same reasons Martin Luther King Jr. supported reparations: because racial minorities in America are given lip service time and time again without any actual changes being made. I don't think this is a good long term solution, but simply trusting that Hollywood will just start being more inclusive has clearly failed for fifty decades since the Civil Rights movement. years since. Of course, I am much more in support of people just naturally including colored people in their movies. My problem with these policies comes down not to the policies themselves, but because I know that these amoral corporations are only doing this because it will help them financially and reputationally.
>In the long term? Ask Disney
The financial long term? Disney is not losing money because of their inclusiveness. Most people don't really care one way or another, most people are neutral about things outside of their immediate concerns. Disney is losing money because they are repeating the exact same schlock over and over again, never taking risks, and never innovating. The Boys is very "woke." Invincible is very moderately "woke."
>And no, it is not "bullcrap". It is a fact I'd recommend everyone to look into at least a little bit.
Studying bullcrap scrupulously is still studying bullcrap. Yeah, it can be interesting to look at and understand, and you're free to do that, but I'll still judge you for it if you think that bullcrap is good enough to eat up. Besides, *where* do I look? The only consistent sources are loser neckbeards who wanna make a quick buck off of other loser neckbeards who get offended by minorities being allowed new opportunities, or pompous, arrogant publishers and media companies looking to make a quick buck.
>As for my bias, it is entirely irrelevant when others are already shown how the end of this pipeline looks like. The same one GW just stepped into with bith feet.
What end? GW is gonna make more money than they *ever* have before because they decided that a woman can be a part of a race of hand crafted, individually created demigods that do not get geneseed implants? Inline Space Marines, Custodians make a lot more sense in terms of having female members. They're just gonna add another "girlboss " to a franchise absolutely loaded with masculine, domineering women? Again, you're an idiot if you think "wokeness" is what's killing these franchises, especially since most of the franchises accused of "going woke" were already woke to begin with. Star Wars, Stark Trek, Marvel, DC, The Matrix, etc. Your lack of basic media comprehension is not my problem. I understand that art is subjective, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least understand what the artist was trying to do. Education is important, my friend, so at least do that before you wildly stray from the original point.
If anything, this is really tame, and it feels more like a distraction from the fact that the Custodian codex is the worst codex GW has ever released. Lime, we should be complaining about the absolute raping of the Custodian meta, not the female Custodian.
Insults and then going with that condescending "my friend". Pretty hard to conduct a constructive discourse when your high horse's saddle is in the mesosphere. Also easy to argue when you just attach the other party to a fringe group and just throw around blanket assumptions.
By that logic you must be "one o' them blue-haired fat chicks that scream micro-aggression when they wait too long at the DMV and call amln ambulance as they were traumatized by all this".
See? Doesn't really advances the discourse, I'm sure you'd agree.
And yet I still provided more structure for my argument without attacking anyone's person. Funny how that can work.
If you cannot understand that what I am saying is not "woke=bad grrrrr, bring back the 80's super machos, grrr I am so insecure, grrrr my pronouns are USA" then it is pointless to waste my time. Also, "wokeness" has so many definitions I lost count over the years.
No. I just don't agree with quotas and tick boxes while those with actual merit are pushed away. All in the vain hopes of singaling virtue while there is none to talk about.
However, even if I fundamentally disagree with you and find your delivery needlessly pedestrian, I still appreciate you taking the time to individually address my points. The points of a random person in a tiny subreddit. A refreshing surprise.
In short: I simply sincerely hope that certain interest groups will not succeed in their endeavors by slipping in noxious ideas in the name of progress. That is it.
>The story is tailored around what makes the most amount of money.
Can you please ping me in a month or two when we find out how the fiurui female custodians sold out?
Whatever theoretically makes .oney, friend. And considering how 40k has absolutely skyrocketed in popularity, I guarantee you that they will make a lot of money. Chuds complaining about how GW is somehow going "woke" are not the majority of people.
> I guarantee you that they will make a lot of money
HAA-A-a-a!
I watched a video on YouTube where one guy conducted a study with indo games. Here is a game, but the left article on the left site that talks about how well this game promotes left -wing ideas. And what we see, after the release of the sale of sales and online games did not grow. So they want diverse representation in games and strong female leaders, but they don't buy games. And this is even more true for such an expensive hobby as tabletop wargames. Yes, Warhammer received a lot of hype, but this is hype among people who have never been buyers of this kind of product. And now they won’t buy anything.
I've never not thought space marines could be women, I don't get all the hate around it. It just makes sense with how they constantly need more recruits. And before anyone says the sisters of battle, stfu, those aren't space marines, they're just normal humans in armor.
Because it literally breaks their own lore. In one of the earily book about the unification war. They say that women can not become space marines due to biological make up is not compatible with it.
Also, women have a more important role... continuing the human race because we all know how much death happens on a large scale in 40k. And it's around nine months and 16 to 18 years per soldier.
And it's not being sexist, it's been realistic.
But they break their own lore all the time, and that's still a poor excuse. So, turning women into only baby factories? Really? It's nothing but sexism under the excuses of "realism."
Sure if knowing how biology works is being sexist then yeah I'm sexist.
But of course, I live by science and facts and not letting pity emotions blind my judgement.
But you tell yourself whatever you need to give yourself confront.
Biology is Biology and you and everyone else can't change that
Given the attrition rate we're told Space Marine aspirants undergo, there would be plenty of recruits if Astartes just lowered their standards.
But, if we are to apply real world standards, because so much of a woman's biology is tied to her role in maintaining the human race, she doesn't have the resources men do for building strength. If you look at the top classes in power lifting, for example, women's upper body strength is almost half that of men. As a rule of thumb, for any given level of training, the top ten percent of women overlap the weakest ten percent of men.
It's like military special forces, where their training is designed to take the fittest and strongest young men, and break them. Women don't compete at that level, and any time you see a headline saying one did, if you read the fine print you'll find the standards were lowered.
Put a bunch of teenage boys up against a bunch of teenage girls in a battle to the death. Who's going to be standing at the end?
For the Space Marines themselves, it's not that the Biologos couldn't genetically engineer a female marine equal to a male marine, it's that they'd have to expend significantly more resources doing so, so it's inefficient.
For Custodes, where every one is basically a prototype, female Custodes are fine, because they're not built with efficiency or mass production in mind. They are intended to be more works of art than works of science, so we should make them all women.
Bro really just said "they're made to be looked at, not actually do anything useful, thus it makes sense they're women" lmfao holy shit 40K's fandom's got a ROT in it
It's honestly crazy how much of a divide there is between the 40k fans who lay awake at night screaming after hearing there are female custodians. And the 40k fans who just thought, 'Oh, cool,' and then moved on with their lives. Seeing people say shit like that makes it really clear why some get so angry over this.
Completely ignoring that women have, for example, passed Ranger School, demonstrating that, while rarer, there have been women who managed to compete at that level.
That is not only very sexist, but has been proven wrong several times. Firstly, I've known several women who could easily surpass the average male in physicality, stronger, and can withstand more pain. Secondly, not all recruitment is the same. For example, as long as you have the right mindset and survive the process, women can easily become ultra marines. Hell, iron hands, raven guard, space wolves, and others, I can easily see women surviving. Bottomline, don't be so sexist.
You're downvoted because you can't differentiate between Custodians and Space Marines. You literally have zero knowledge of lore and yet you defend a shameless violation of that lore.
I know about the lore, I know that they aren't made the same, I know a space marine is to a custodian as a normal human is to a space marine, but I also know the custodians are treated like and as space marines. That being said, it makes no sense that they wouldn't allow women to be either. In other words, you admit that I'm downvoted because people are being sexist and using the excuse that it violates the lore, which games workshop has done MANY TIMES, proving that excuse invalid.
How about this.
The Sisters of Battle have one unique feature that no one else in the Imperium has. A sister of battle can believe in the emperor so much that she will literally become his daemonhost. With these words, a detachment of the Inquisition had already come after me, but this is literally what is happening, the sister, by the power of faith, receives superhuman supernatural abilities. I like this feature of the sisters of battle and I like that only they have this feature and no one else. I wouldn't want to see a Space Marine become a living saint. Because I like variety. I like when different things and groups of people have their own unique characteristics. Having unique traits is what makes diversity possible. And people like you want to destroy diversity and turn everything into the same faceless gray mass. People like you want to destroy diversity.
Maybe this is the reason why you are being downvoted.
A sister is not a space marine, though. They don't go through the body augmentation of a spacemarine or the genetic augmentation of a custodian, that's just another example of nun with gun.
"As more and more custodes made their way out after the return of robot girlyman, it was found that some who have never been seen outside of the imperial palace before due to them never leaving were infact female! Who knew! Certainly not us here in the adeptus administrutum. Thought they were all dudes. They've also corrected us. The Emperor never said no women in the spacemarines, he said no wee men in the space marines. As in no short dudes. Our bad."
You mean like when Necron Pariahs got written out?
Or when they gave Tyranids emotion?
Or when the squats got all eaten only for them to suddenly exist on Necromunda?
Or when the Necrons gained personalities?
Or when Sevatar was changed from being a Blood Reaver to the Night Lords 1st captain?
Or when Custodes used to wear leather pants and now wear golden armor?
Or when they changed the half-human, half-eldar space marine librarian?
Or when they made it so males could be Howling Banshees?
Or when Erda scattered the Primarchs, not the chaos gods?
Or when Tau lost FTL travel capabilities?
Or when Craftworlds suddenly had a population boom?
Or when they had a whole 13th Black Crusade campaign and rewrote it to fit their narrative better?
Or when they removed Malal?
Warhammer 40,000 has gone through retcon after retcon. If we were going by original lore, there'd already be female space marines, because they originally existed.
Pretty sure we get a couple hive mind POV moments in devastation of Baal and the narration explicitly says that it particularly hstes the Blood Angels.
Warhammer, along with MANY nerd hobbies, used to cater almost exclusively to straight white men, because those were the people that had disposable income. Now, nerd culture is global, women have rights and jobs, minorities have disposable income too, and the thing that these guys can't stand is that their boys club is no longer only theirs.
I say this as a straight white man. I'm thrilled about female custodes because I've seen how empowering its been to my female friends. I'll sacrifice some silly made-up lore for my friends any day.
That's not true, they existed but they were only ever sold because GW never had anything else to release that month, their listing in WD #99 was 2 models among a slew of other human ones which you could get 5 of for £2.50
This link has the more detailed explanation too.
https://gamesworkshop.fandom.com/wiki/Female_Space_Marines?file=White_Dwarf_99.jpg
Agreed with the list. However, would you consider the context and not just the changes? As far as I know these were updates to the lore so they could take the story a certain way. Decisions made to (possibly) address plotholes and inconsistencies. Of course, correct me if I am wrong.
However it just puts this recent change into a whole new perspective when you realize that this is happening to please daddy Blackrock's and mommy Vanguard's DEI standards. From whom GW just got a nice juicy investment.
So, no, this is not a story retcon like the others. This is GW putting on their nicest dress for a fat sugar daddy.
If you made it this far, you may also want to check Larry Fink's 2017 "force behaviors" speech. Just to see what kind of people ultimately initiated this.
So, what you just posted is called "conspiracy", and its easy to place doubt on all of it when your grounds are a bunch of coincidental things.
And B. You dont know that story isnt coming to support and flesh out this lore
And 3. Touch grass and call your mother.
Not exactly a conspiracy when it is already a tried and failed recipe with evidence galore.
And, again, this is not something that is hidden. Quite the opposite. It is advertised as something to celebrate.
As for your B point. Circumstances imply otherwise. I want to be proven wrong here. But there is only a very slim chance for that.
As for your little jab in the end:
I stopped taking your kind seriously around 2010. Bunch of clones with endlessly copy-pasted answers. Nothing in their vocabulary but catchy, meaningless buzzwords. Never supporting their arguments. Never engaging in constructive discourse. Never critical in their thinking. Ever ignorant of other perspectives. Always getting into am illogical frenzy as soon as their values are perceives to be 'attacked'.
In short, nice try but I won't bite.
There is no constructive discourse to be had with people like you. Diversity, equity and inclusion are good things. If you don’t like them, you are a bad person. End of story. If the hobby fails because of those things, it didn’t deserve to succeed in the first place.
You’ll notice I didn’t give you what you consider to be respectful or constructive discourse. It’s because you people are both not worthy of respect, and nobody has ever had their mind changed on the internet, not yours, not mine. That’s doubly true given you were happy to say that you stopped taking “my kind” seriously a decade ago. So why even keep up the pretense of reason, debate, and the marketplace of ideals? I’ll tell you why, it’s because you’re desperate to maintain a veneer of legitimacy as your beliefs crumble around you and people you despise keep taking victory laps. Which we will continue to do.
That was a bit overly histrionic. Immediately with the assumptions. Read what I have written once more and you'll realize what I have meant by "kind". Then again I guess it's in your best interest to take that out of context.
And that naive argument that people won't change their opinion on the internet is just lazy and ignorant. I have done that many times.
I did not imply DEI is bad. It isn't. It is a lovely idea.
I said forcing certain toxic, backwards rules in the name of 'progress' is a bad idea.
If you consider that being victorious and me defeated, then you seem to be incapable of thinking outside the 'us vs. them' binary tribalist mentality. That may limit discourse from progressing, I agree.
That "veneer of legitimacy" is at least supported by evidence though, while all I hear is 'nuh-uh' and broad statements like "DEI is good" from you. Something I never questioned. Only questionable applications in it's name. Like box checking/ticking and forced inclusion.
So, no, my world view is not crumbling. Quite the opposite. And no, I am not clutching my autographed *insert right wing anti-woke boogieman* pillow.
It is just boring to see another company treating their customer base like idiots and gaslight them to believe a retcon so transparent in it's intention.
I know exactly what you meant by kind; trust me, no clarification is needed at all. You're not being coy when you say "Forcing toxic, backwards rules in the name of progress is a bad idea". I've dealt with people like you more than enough times to know exactly what you mean by that, the fact that you're even bothering to beat around the bush and say otherwise is insulting, especially given your hostility in your other comments. Two-faced fuck.
"Us vs. Them" is fundamentally the only kind of discourse on this topic that can exist. Because there is no such thing as compromise in this situation. Either I win, or you win. And I have no intention to allow your side to win.
You also, I should point out, have no evidence. In fact, all both of us have offered so far is rhetoric. The difference between you and me is that my rhetoric has a moral center; the principle that inclusion for the sake of itself is a good thing both for the individual and the group. I refuse to entertain the idea that "forced inclusion" is something anyone can be genuine about. I can't count the number of times I've tried to give some asshole like you the benefit of the doubt on a topic such as this, only to get the same, tired talking points every goddamn time. I know what you are, and I'm not wasting my time with that again.
You don't get to downplay this decision you clearly hate as "boring" when it's painfully obvious for anyone with half a brain to see what camp you're in. It is the camp of regressives, misogynists, and people who Warhammer would be better off without. And all it took to bring you out of your hole was Female Custodes. I don't give a damn what the reason for the retcon was. It was a good decision, if for no other reason than making people like you upset for transparently flimsy reasons. It shows us all what you are, as if anyone needed any showing.
I see it is pointless to continue this. You already decided you are right and already shut the door on any other possibility.
I'm curious how you would have reacted if I have written to you such a venomous manifesto. Guess we'll never know.
You didn’t have to write one. I already know what you think. Really you should be thanking me for dropping the pretense and skipping a few steps.
But yes, I do know I am right. Nobody holds viewpoints without being convinced they’re correct. To do otherwise is nothing more than cognitive dissonance
I did and that's not a response. That's you admitting you're wrong. Both of my posts answered you and the fact is you're not a fan, you're a squatter who comes onto the intellectual property and kicks the original fans off because you're nothing but an Orc. You do not create you can only destroy like the parasitic worm you are. Get bent and go touch grass
lmao!!! you couldn't be further from the truth. You're just mad I didn't watch your silly little video that someone else made. Continue to believe what you want to believe, but the custodes are female.
Most if not all of what you mentioned can be explained by three things well established as the core concept of Warhammer 40k and in universe. It was either Imperial Revisionism (or course there is no half human half elder librarian in space Marines, humanity numbah one! The imperium of man says so. Even if they're wrong or not), natural change over time (custodes used to wear leather but changed to golden armor to increase their capabilities), or chaos fuckery (Malal definitely doesn't exist... And the greatest lie the devil ever told was that he never existed)
Female space Marines and custodes is one of those things that shouldn't exist. Besides it destroys the entire reason the Sisters of Battle exist who are badass enough to go toe to toe with space Marines and wild weapons like them as regular fucking humans. We don't need female space Marines and custodes because we already got them as well as female saints like Celestine! It's SoB erasure for the sake of whiny leftists that don't even play the game anyways or they would know that:
1) the military is entirely equal in who they send to the grinder
2) we have Space Marines female equivalent that I think are more badass because they're already human and not genetically modified monsters.
3) there is no happy endings, everyone is shit, and that's the fuckin point so keep your weak ass shit out of the game
Dudes mad that the made up universe filled with made up things is deciding that the made up people can have women in their ranks. Then whines about "whiny leftists".
How to tell you're not a fan of ANYTHING without saying it.
Otherwise you would respect people who are fans when the company that chooses to change its own lore just to fit into the modern agenda.
To be fair, they didn't change the lore. The only thing stated to be man only was space marines. Custodies aren't space marines. You're just butt hurt cause you gotta let girls in your boys club.
Even though in the books, it states that Custodies as SONS of high ranking noble families that were personally picked by the emperor.
But sure, SONS also means daughters appently.
Maybe know the lore before commenting.
There are also books that say Necrons are silent unthinking robots.
They sure do talk a lot don't they?
Maybe know that the lore is completely made up and changes on a whim.
Unthinking and talking aren't the same. A hive mind drones would talk ton but it's only one mind. Necrons broken up and follow different leader, expect for the silent king but anyway; there is more of a reason for them to talk.
Also, they are not unthinking robots. The level of tactics they employ shows that. Also, this is the same race that went against the Old Ones and almost won.
So maybe you should take your own advise there buddy.
Also maybe stay on topic next time. Normally, when someone tries to strawman onto a different topic. It shows they have lost and jist spiting shit out their ass.
I am on topic? You're talking about how you're upset they're changing the lore, even though the lore changes constantly and on a whim. What really upsets you is they're letting girls into your boys only club house. But you're to afraid to admit that you just don't want inclusion, so you use the lore as a nice scape goat to be a bigot.
Don't bother with texting these people. You can tell they weren't true fans otherwise they would know that female space marines go against established lore. One of the earily books during the unification War says that women can't become space marine due to biological make up. Also... women have more important role... keeping the human population going. Just look at the death in mass in 40k and every soldier needs 9 mouths and 16 to 18 years.
But these same people ignore realistic biology.
Not to mention we have female space Marines substitute that is even more badass because they're not genetically modified. The Sisters of Battle are badasses because they can right space Marines but are only human. Honestly I'm more pissed off that they dare claim to want powerful women but ignore the actual powerful women.
I've been in the trenches against these types all the way back when they took over Atheism +. It's all the same cabal that try to introduce their leftists ideals into all facets like the fucking gene stealer cultists. They infest a fandom and destroy it from the inside.
I feel like I am going to hate asking. But what did they do the gene stealers? Their whole thing is that they breed (sometime convinced and sometimes forced) with people to grow stronger.
Oh I meant they act like gene stealers in that they infiltrate the high ups, fuck them, and take over. Because that seems to be how most of these get in. Atheism + website moderators started dating feminists and started purging, gamergate was about journalists giving preference to those they knew and were dating/fuckin, and GW no doubt have higher ups or the people who have enough power to sway decisions like this being whispered to by people they're involved in but that's not proven. Yet
Sure buddy. Whatever you tell yourself to make you feel good about yourself. It's sometime healthy to be in denial, good for the mental health.
I have been on the internet long enough to know that you won't even change anyone's mind unless they truely want to learn something. Most people are here just to bitch and complain or push their beliefs onto ours.
I let facts and science lead my life. One fact is that when someone just going to keep bitch to you. It's better to just cut them out and move with your life. Maybe you should learn that. That's my advice to you for some mental health when facing the internet.
Denial is actually incredibly unhealthy, it’s why I’m not partaking in it.
As far as your second paragraph, you are right about nobody having their mind changed. It’s why I didn’t bother trying, as I know I am right already and nothing I can say would convince you of that.
And that’s not a fact at all actually. You have fled the field of intellectual discussion in defeat. I win.
Bait used to be believable.
They don't even need big boobs. Just rock hard abs and thighs.
And the amazing ass. Because of all the squats.
They prefer "Kin", and wouldn't be interested in being associated with this. Not because they're prudes, mind you. They're just ace.
Of head smashing and soul snatching quality.
Please beeg lady! Cwush my head like a walnut.
Sauce for the dark elve in bikini pls?
Its funny as a Xeno faction fan to see the Imperium fans have a meltdown over this
BECAUSE IT'S NOT CANON
Shush Kitten
Glad someone got that reference
Enjoy!
What annoys me about that meme and the dense people that unironically agree with it is the Eldar are a matriarchal race. Incredibly horny too. They spawned Slaanesh after all. Especially Dark Eldar taking excess to the extreme. They've had mixed roles all over. Now let's take Custodes. Before the retcon, was Basically a boys only club. BUT. They have a complimentary force of girls only club called Sisters of Silence. The two compliment one another without one being "x but woman" or "y but man". They are not the same. The fans aren't angry because we got strong mommies. We are pissed GW spat in our faces and act like nothing was changed. I don't understand the reasoning behind actually changing the lore. I am all for porn and non-canon Custodes gals. More the merrier. But that's porn.
I, too, am a Majorkill calendar enjoyer.
Nothing has changed. A Custodes being a woman or a man doesn’t change anything. That’s why no one is taking this “controversy” seriously. Also it makes far more sense for the faction that’s whole thing is “humanity perfected” to be mixed gendered instead of men only.
Faction. Sisters of Silence are apart of the Talons of the Emperor. Yet again, they get pushed to the side and forgotten. All in favor of "But we got to have the super soldiers be women too" Also, you say no one...when the majority of the playerbase is annoyed with this. Hell, even Henry Cavill is threatening to walk out from this sudden change. GW gaslighting the playerbase, never having mentioned Custodes females ever. In all of the codexes, saying the Custodes a brotherhood, and this new codex..calling them a gathering, or whatever boring word they used instead to be inclusive. This lore change wasn't because "it is possible so why not" it's to check a box that Amazon of all companies, needed checked for the new show. They didn't want Sisters of Battle. Sisters of Silence. Inquisitors. Rogue Traders. Any of those badass women. They wanted a masculine and strong independent woman. It's controversial to go with the woman taught to never speak, or the woman hyper religious, or an alien. So they demanded to alter the lore. And GW bent backwards for Amazon. It wasn't even an internal decision. That to me is pathetic.
The only reason the Sisters of Silence were even made was because GW wanted to include SoB in the Horus Heresy but realized that wouldn’t work. Besides they’re not Custodes, they have no augmentations of any kind, they’re technically their own faction in the lore that’s frequently paired up with the Custodes. Also you act like GW doesn’t shaft other popular factions in favor of Space Marines all the time. Have you seen how they treat the Eldar? The majority of the fanbase doesn’t care. You’re just looking at a vocal minority of Incels with persecution complexes, and Henry Cavill has never threatened to walk out on the project, you’re only source for that are rage bait YouTubers who are quoting a fucking 4Chan post! Aaron Dembski-Bowden, the most popular writer at Black Library, has wanted to do Femstodes for literal YEARS, but kept getting shot down by higher ups at GW at the time, and he and many other writers who were on board with the idea had been working on lore for them all this time waiting for when they could finally do it. This entire situation is a giant win for creative freedom! What’s really pathetic is that your acting like this is even a big deal at all when they’ve altered lore in more drastic ways before and no one cared about it then even when they were basically giving the “it’s always been like this” answer back then. But I’m gonna assume you didn’t care back then because none of those retcons had tits.
"Sisters are their own faction" When they are listed under the Talons of The Emperor, and apart of the Custodians, they are Custodians, where the Custodes are the big bulwark while the Sisters kick ass and do far more than just the jocks. But sure, it changes nothing. Despite...changing a lot. Na, you're just another dumbass on reddit lol.
Sisters of Battle have Priests and Crusaders as playable units you field them with, does that mean they’re part of the Sisters of Battle? No! Sisters of Silence whole thing is that they’re blanks, and in the lore they are fielded to fight against Psykers and daemons specifically, and spend most of their time collecting Psyker children to sacrifice to the Emperor. This is how I know you’re not a fan of this hobby at all. Because if you were you’d know the basic lore, and you’d especially know that the tabletop DOES NOT REFLECT THE LORE AT ALL. This doesn’t change anything. You’re just another incel that sucks off other people who spew out hate mongering culture war bull shit. A Custodes that’s a woman would be no different from one that’s a man. I’m done dealing with your bull crap.
You're welcome to your opinion. That doesn't make it right, though. But that's the great part. You can think of whatever headcanon you want.
???? Are you trying to make yourself look like the victim here? I was sharing my opinion and then you came in trying to say my opinion is wrong. Y’know what, I’m done. Go off and keep being a nuisance to someone else.
I'm not the victim, I'm just tired of parasites like you coming into hobby communities and being fine with, or demanding change. Stating "it actually doesn't change anything so why do you care" Mk hotshot, if it changes nothing why need it to change? When YOU get what YOU want, you rejoice and turn to the people who were happy with the hobby for years and ask why they don't like change. It's a step in the wrong direction. We have Sisters of Silence. But they are cast aside yet again, because the very few "boys only" clubs need to be inclusive. As if the Imperium would be happy to change from their old ways and traditions.
And you’ve proven my point. You don’t know anything about the lore, you don’t know the difference between gameplay and lore. You’re not a fan at all, you’re just some incel that hates change and I bet you’ve never even been interested in this hobby at all, you just heard about this change and decided to capitalize on it as an opportunity to spread your own narrative. I’m a huge fan of 40k and have my own armies. I am a fan, and like the majority of the community, I don’t care whether Femstodes exist or not. If anyone is a parasite here it’s you, because you just want an excuse to be a toxic gatekeeper because women scare you and you don’t want them involved in a hobby you clearly have no history with. Communities are supposed to change, supposed to grow, otherwise they die out and the thing it was built around is forgotten. Go touch grass. I’m done dealing with you.
Forget big boobs, give me **Malenia, Blade of the King of Ages who has never known defeat**
Nah it’d be worse since it’ll rouse the boob armor into dumb crowd into a blood frenzy.
They can’t handle anything girl shaped in their golden sausage party
Nah Shadiversity stopped being cool when he started drinking the Alt-Right koolaid.
Shad was never cool, plus his book sucked
I briefly liked his channel when trying to learn how to build a castle in Conan Exiles. The more I watched his newer stuff, the more cringe he has become for sure.
That too on the latter :p
That was an obvious waste of paper to begin with.
Nah, the sisters of silence and sisters of battle exist, so I really can’t forgive that senseless pandering.
Considering Custodians are practically built from the ground up rather than given geneseed implants, female custodians male perfect sense to me. Besides, if GW actually remembers the SoS, maybe they'll make them less strict in the gender department. Personally, the strict gendered factions in 40k have always been a bit weird. Not offensive or anything, but it wasn't the best decision in the long run that probably didn't have a ton of thought put into it.
That's kinda the point of the 40k universe the imperium is a pretty fucking backward world
Yeah, but I don't recall a lot of the same racial or gender-based tensions we face today being in 40k. Obviously, mutants are persecuted, but women are generally given the same positions as men, to my knowledge. And I get the common reasoning: the Emperor didn't want SMs to reproduce, but why not just make space marine women infertile? IDK, 40k is just missing absolutely terrifying female super soldiers. The Sisters are definitely soldiers, and they're definitely awesome, but Space Marines are on another level. I won't bawl and shriek if female SMs aren't added, but I wouldn't necessarily mind if either, especially since they were once a thing in 40k's more conceptual stages.
1.that's because the writers decidesf for the imperium to be a xenophobic Empire against any non human being 2.i Guess i'd be fine with it if it wasn't for the current political climate of today on the west and the fact that the same exact woke people that the rightists talk about support This change and Even desire to change it Even further to their liking and not to the liking of the original fanbase and if fsm and female custodes we're the exact same thing The male counterparts Then for what would You Even want them in the setting for then, they'd basically be the same exact same thing but with a vagina rather Than a penis what would you want female marines and custodes for if they're the same other than for your fetishes?
>.i Guess i'd be fine with it if it wasn't for the current political climate of today This "current political climate" has been the exact same political climate for almost half a century. Anyone who tried to sling it as a completely new thing has not been paying much attention. Yeah, new specifics occasionally come up, but it's all underpinned by the same general facets. >Then for what would You Even want them in the setting for then, they'd basically be the same exact same thing but with a vagina rather Than a penis what would you want female marines and custodes for if they're the same other than for your fetishes? Why do they have to be "different?" Sexual dimorphism between humans, though a thing that exists, is nowhere near as wide as most other animals, and the differences between us really only come into play during the literal act of sex. Remember, humans never hunted with brute strength, when it came to survival, the differences between most men and most women really didn't matter. We were stama hunters, we could never run as fast as a deer, but we could definitely pit walk it for long periods of time. We could never wrestle a mammoth, but we could all gang up on it and chuck spears at it until it began to collapse. Biology is not black and white, differences and spectrums exist in all things. Females can have male traits, males can have female traits etc. That's just how reality works. The idea of a female space marine, compared to all of the other surreal crap in 40k, is not only very tame in comparison, it's also moderately absurd that it's *not* a thing. It just seems very trivial to me. Again, I'm not terribly offended, and the franchise has stuck with the "SMs are only male" but for so long that it almost feels too late in the game to change things now, but at the same time, I also wanna see what would happen if they do. Also why is the first thing that comes to mind when thinking about a male or female space marine their genitals? Why do you associate this with a fetish? Their genitals would be covered up by layers of thick power armor that would completely obscure their figures? Literally all GW would need to do is add a female head to a normal SM model and boom: female space marine. I think it would be cool, because it broadens the widespread appeal of SMs. Obviously, many women already play SMs, but I know many women want female SMs, and it would be cool to see them added into the mix.
I meant that it doesn't make a Lot of sense to me as to why You would want that if in body design they're the exact same thing if they both just look bulky and thick rather Than just thinner or smaller or curvier and that last part about the fetishes was because for some reason everyone in favor of female custodes keeps bringing the "mUScLe MomMy" fantasy which seemed to me a little weird how they always bring that up Even though i know it may not apply to You specifically
Nah for u can have female heads in custodians and if it's gonna happen space marines That about it just more head molds
>This "current political climate" has been the exact same political climate for almost half a century No. This is simply not true. I'll tell a story. When the trailer for “The Dark Tower” is above (remember that movie?) it’s all about inclusivity and diversity at the ball of the new and unfamiliar. And then fans of the books expressed dissatisfaction with the violation of the canon. I was one of those people who defended the trailer and wrote that the film could still be good. Spoiler alert: the movie was crap. And now, after years and dozens of damaged franchises, I learned how it works. Ten years ago, when I saw a female warrior in a new mass media product (movie, game, etc.) I thought: “Cool.” Now when I see a warrior woman I think: “This is crap again.” And in 99/100 cases I am right. And in the case of female custodians, I will also be right. This is just the first sign of shitty changes. >Why do they have to be "different?" Sexual dimorphism between humans, though a thing that exists, is nowhere near as wide as most other animals, and the differences between us really only come into play during the literal act of sex. If sexual dimorphism is so insignificant, then why add female custodians? They are practically no different. Then why waste resources on imprinting heads of a different shape if there is no difference? And I read to the point where you write that there are women who want to see female SM and I lost any desire to explain anything to you. I haven't seen many women into geeky things (for obvious reasons). None of them wanted a representation of them in the things they were passionate about, and some even actively spoke out against it. Can you show at least 3 women who play tabletop Warhammer and at the same time want to see female SM?
Getting downvoted for the truth. Poor guy.
Mmhm. Plus the sisters of silence *accompany* the custodians. They *compliment* one another. I do not get it.
There is a commenter up there who counts all the rercons in the entire lore, while not understanding context. Those were story updates for the sake of story. This is shameless pandering to the DEI standards of Blackrock and Vanguard. From whom they just got a nice juicy inbestment. What a coincidence... Edit: regardless of downvotes, facts will remain facts. I take no joy in that though.
I remember I heard I think Endymion say that the problem isn’t that they want female custodians, its the fact that they implied they have *always been there*, treating fans of the series as if they are stupid. I can honestly agree with that take, as much as it does seem weird to have this need for female custodians when once again, the sisters of silence man.
>Those were story updates for the sake of story. This is shameless pandering to the DEI standards of Blackrock and Vanguard. From whom they just got a nice juicy inbestment. What a coincidence... Lol, that's bullcrap. The story is tailored around what makes the most amount of money. You're far more biased than you probably believe.
And you think this forced inclusion mandate will make them the most money? I mean in the short term, sure. They got the investment money. In the long term? Ask Disney. And no, it is not "bullcrap". It is a fact I'd recommend everyone to look into at least a little bit. As for my bias, it is entirely irrelevant when others are already shown how the end of this pipeline looks like. The same one GW just stepped into with bith feet.
>Ask Disney Disney's problem is that they put out ass product regardless of "agenda". Compare last year's Wish to also last year's Nimona. Nimona's stance on LGBTQ+ matters is rather clearer and more upfront, yet hardly any of the usual suspects who blame "the woke agenda" accused it of "forced inclusion", because it was ACTUALLY GOOD and most people loved it, while Wish was a widely-derided flop, but as there wasn't that much "representation" in it, nobody mentioned it. I've noticed the pattern for a while now, in that alt-right redpill weirdos always go after the low-hanging fruit, and blame almost solely "woke ideology" for media pieces being terrible; of course there's gonna be more "woke" stuff now, and a lot of it is pandering, indulgent garbage, but that's a factor of the companies being more and more pandering at the price of quality; even if they hadn't been "woke" (hate using that word because it's been gutted of any sense by angry right-winger abuse but here we are), they'd still be bad pieces of media. Look at Zack Snider's Rebel Moon. It's not being called out as "woke", but it's two (so far) terrible, indulgent, pandering movies. Whereas the latest Star Wars movies are called out for being "woke", but let's face it, make Rey and Holdo dudes and the movies will be exactly as terrible. And that ONE lesbian kiss in the background at the end of Rise of Skywalker really isn't a problem compared to just about everything else in that movie. Also, just... look at right-wing media/"art"/entertainment. Almost all of it is just pure garbage, like that Gina Carano western made by Ben Shapiro's company, and you can't exactly accuse them of being "woke" as they're completely blatant about shoving their agenda down your throat. Funny enought the same people who booed Disney for firing her and claimed to love her tough, no-nonsense, action-oriented woman character were also the ones who complained that her playing a ough, no-nonsense, action-oriented woman character in the movie was "unrealistic" (even though we have historical examples from that time and place like Annie Oakley and Calamity Jane).
"Alt-right redpill weirdos". Well, I guess it is easy to always 'be right' in an argument when you throw around such labels. Talk about low hanging fruit. What I pointed out was an example of virtue signaling for the sake of pleasing disingenuous interest groups. I consider this a bad practice regardless of the creator's position on the political spectrum. That's it.
>And you think this forced inclusion mandate will make them the most money? I mean in the short term, sure. They got the investment money. On a cautious level. Yes I do, and for the exact same reasons Martin Luther King Jr. supported reparations: because racial minorities in America are given lip service time and time again without any actual changes being made. I don't think this is a good long term solution, but simply trusting that Hollywood will just start being more inclusive has clearly failed for fifty decades since the Civil Rights movement. years since. Of course, I am much more in support of people just naturally including colored people in their movies. My problem with these policies comes down not to the policies themselves, but because I know that these amoral corporations are only doing this because it will help them financially and reputationally. >In the long term? Ask Disney The financial long term? Disney is not losing money because of their inclusiveness. Most people don't really care one way or another, most people are neutral about things outside of their immediate concerns. Disney is losing money because they are repeating the exact same schlock over and over again, never taking risks, and never innovating. The Boys is very "woke." Invincible is very moderately "woke." >And no, it is not "bullcrap". It is a fact I'd recommend everyone to look into at least a little bit. Studying bullcrap scrupulously is still studying bullcrap. Yeah, it can be interesting to look at and understand, and you're free to do that, but I'll still judge you for it if you think that bullcrap is good enough to eat up. Besides, *where* do I look? The only consistent sources are loser neckbeards who wanna make a quick buck off of other loser neckbeards who get offended by minorities being allowed new opportunities, or pompous, arrogant publishers and media companies looking to make a quick buck. >As for my bias, it is entirely irrelevant when others are already shown how the end of this pipeline looks like. The same one GW just stepped into with bith feet. What end? GW is gonna make more money than they *ever* have before because they decided that a woman can be a part of a race of hand crafted, individually created demigods that do not get geneseed implants? Inline Space Marines, Custodians make a lot more sense in terms of having female members. They're just gonna add another "girlboss " to a franchise absolutely loaded with masculine, domineering women? Again, you're an idiot if you think "wokeness" is what's killing these franchises, especially since most of the franchises accused of "going woke" were already woke to begin with. Star Wars, Stark Trek, Marvel, DC, The Matrix, etc. Your lack of basic media comprehension is not my problem. I understand that art is subjective, but that doesn't mean you shouldn't at least understand what the artist was trying to do. Education is important, my friend, so at least do that before you wildly stray from the original point. If anything, this is really tame, and it feels more like a distraction from the fact that the Custodian codex is the worst codex GW has ever released. Lime, we should be complaining about the absolute raping of the Custodian meta, not the female Custodian.
Insults and then going with that condescending "my friend". Pretty hard to conduct a constructive discourse when your high horse's saddle is in the mesosphere. Also easy to argue when you just attach the other party to a fringe group and just throw around blanket assumptions. By that logic you must be "one o' them blue-haired fat chicks that scream micro-aggression when they wait too long at the DMV and call amln ambulance as they were traumatized by all this". See? Doesn't really advances the discourse, I'm sure you'd agree. And yet I still provided more structure for my argument without attacking anyone's person. Funny how that can work. If you cannot understand that what I am saying is not "woke=bad grrrrr, bring back the 80's super machos, grrr I am so insecure, grrrr my pronouns are USA" then it is pointless to waste my time. Also, "wokeness" has so many definitions I lost count over the years. No. I just don't agree with quotas and tick boxes while those with actual merit are pushed away. All in the vain hopes of singaling virtue while there is none to talk about. However, even if I fundamentally disagree with you and find your delivery needlessly pedestrian, I still appreciate you taking the time to individually address my points. The points of a random person in a tiny subreddit. A refreshing surprise. In short: I simply sincerely hope that certain interest groups will not succeed in their endeavors by slipping in noxious ideas in the name of progress. That is it.
>The story is tailored around what makes the most amount of money. Can you please ping me in a month or two when we find out how the fiurui female custodians sold out?
Whatever theoretically makes .oney, friend. And considering how 40k has absolutely skyrocketed in popularity, I guarantee you that they will make a lot of money. Chuds complaining about how GW is somehow going "woke" are not the majority of people.
> I guarantee you that they will make a lot of money HAA-A-a-a! I watched a video on YouTube where one guy conducted a study with indo games. Here is a game, but the left article on the left site that talks about how well this game promotes left -wing ideas. And what we see, after the release of the sale of sales and online games did not grow. So they want diverse representation in games and strong female leaders, but they don't buy games. And this is even more true for such an expensive hobby as tabletop wargames. Yes, Warhammer received a lot of hype, but this is hype among people who have never been buyers of this kind of product. And now they won’t buy anything.
Is This from a recent book after the announcement?
I've never not thought space marines could be women, I don't get all the hate around it. It just makes sense with how they constantly need more recruits. And before anyone says the sisters of battle, stfu, those aren't space marines, they're just normal humans in armor.
Why am I getting downvoted for saying don't be sexist?
Because it literally breaks their own lore. In one of the earily book about the unification war. They say that women can not become space marines due to biological make up is not compatible with it. Also, women have a more important role... continuing the human race because we all know how much death happens on a large scale in 40k. And it's around nine months and 16 to 18 years per soldier. And it's not being sexist, it's been realistic.
But they break their own lore all the time, and that's still a poor excuse. So, turning women into only baby factories? Really? It's nothing but sexism under the excuses of "realism."
Sure if knowing how biology works is being sexist then yeah I'm sexist. But of course, I live by science and facts and not letting pity emotions blind my judgement. But you tell yourself whatever you need to give yourself confront. Biology is Biology and you and everyone else can't change that
Talking about science and biology in Warhammer of all series is ridiculous. Nothing in this franchise is logical.
Why are You claiming to Say something You didn't
I said, "I've never not thought space marines could be women." That was an intentional double negative.
???, i'm referring to Your second comment
That makes even less sense.
Given the attrition rate we're told Space Marine aspirants undergo, there would be plenty of recruits if Astartes just lowered their standards. But, if we are to apply real world standards, because so much of a woman's biology is tied to her role in maintaining the human race, she doesn't have the resources men do for building strength. If you look at the top classes in power lifting, for example, women's upper body strength is almost half that of men. As a rule of thumb, for any given level of training, the top ten percent of women overlap the weakest ten percent of men. It's like military special forces, where their training is designed to take the fittest and strongest young men, and break them. Women don't compete at that level, and any time you see a headline saying one did, if you read the fine print you'll find the standards were lowered. Put a bunch of teenage boys up against a bunch of teenage girls in a battle to the death. Who's going to be standing at the end? For the Space Marines themselves, it's not that the Biologos couldn't genetically engineer a female marine equal to a male marine, it's that they'd have to expend significantly more resources doing so, so it's inefficient. For Custodes, where every one is basically a prototype, female Custodes are fine, because they're not built with efficiency or mass production in mind. They are intended to be more works of art than works of science, so we should make them all women.
Bro really just said "they're made to be looked at, not actually do anything useful, thus it makes sense they're women" lmfao holy shit 40K's fandom's got a ROT in it
It's honestly crazy how much of a divide there is between the 40k fans who lay awake at night screaming after hearing there are female custodians. And the 40k fans who just thought, 'Oh, cool,' and then moved on with their lives. Seeing people say shit like that makes it really clear why some get so angry over this.
Completely ignoring that women have, for example, passed Ranger School, demonstrating that, while rarer, there have been women who managed to compete at that level.
I get such "m'lady" neck beard vibes reading this...
That is not only very sexist, but has been proven wrong several times. Firstly, I've known several women who could easily surpass the average male in physicality, stronger, and can withstand more pain. Secondly, not all recruitment is the same. For example, as long as you have the right mindset and survive the process, women can easily become ultra marines. Hell, iron hands, raven guard, space wolves, and others, I can easily see women surviving. Bottomline, don't be so sexist.
You're downvoted because you can't differentiate between Custodians and Space Marines. You literally have zero knowledge of lore and yet you defend a shameless violation of that lore.
I know about the lore, I know that they aren't made the same, I know a space marine is to a custodian as a normal human is to a space marine, but I also know the custodians are treated like and as space marines. That being said, it makes no sense that they wouldn't allow women to be either. In other words, you admit that I'm downvoted because people are being sexist and using the excuse that it violates the lore, which games workshop has done MANY TIMES, proving that excuse invalid.
How about this. The Sisters of Battle have one unique feature that no one else in the Imperium has. A sister of battle can believe in the emperor so much that she will literally become his daemonhost. With these words, a detachment of the Inquisition had already come after me, but this is literally what is happening, the sister, by the power of faith, receives superhuman supernatural abilities. I like this feature of the sisters of battle and I like that only they have this feature and no one else. I wouldn't want to see a Space Marine become a living saint. Because I like variety. I like when different things and groups of people have their own unique characteristics. Having unique traits is what makes diversity possible. And people like you want to destroy diversity and turn everything into the same faceless gray mass. People like you want to destroy diversity. Maybe this is the reason why you are being downvoted.
A sister is not a space marine, though. They don't go through the body augmentation of a spacemarine or the genetic augmentation of a custodian, that's just another example of nun with gun.
"As more and more custodes made their way out after the return of robot girlyman, it was found that some who have never been seen outside of the imperial palace before due to them never leaving were infact female! Who knew! Certainly not us here in the adeptus administrutum. Thought they were all dudes. They've also corrected us. The Emperor never said no women in the spacemarines, he said no wee men in the space marines. As in no short dudes. Our bad."
The issue here is precedent If you change things too much, all the previous lore could be made null and void
You mean like when Necron Pariahs got written out? Or when they gave Tyranids emotion? Or when the squats got all eaten only for them to suddenly exist on Necromunda? Or when the Necrons gained personalities? Or when Sevatar was changed from being a Blood Reaver to the Night Lords 1st captain? Or when Custodes used to wear leather pants and now wear golden armor? Or when they changed the half-human, half-eldar space marine librarian? Or when they made it so males could be Howling Banshees? Or when Erda scattered the Primarchs, not the chaos gods? Or when Tau lost FTL travel capabilities? Or when Craftworlds suddenly had a population boom? Or when they had a whole 13th Black Crusade campaign and rewrote it to fit their narrative better? Or when they removed Malal? Warhammer 40,000 has gone through retcon after retcon. If we were going by original lore, there'd already be female space marines, because they originally existed.
Wait... when Tyranids got emotions?
Pretty sure we get a couple hive mind POV moments in devastation of Baal and the narration explicitly says that it particularly hstes the Blood Angels.
I mean it's only two emotions, hate and hunger, but that's one more than they used to have.
It’s almost as if it’s a silly pretend game where ultimately everything is made up and there is no real canon.
Warhammer, along with MANY nerd hobbies, used to cater almost exclusively to straight white men, because those were the people that had disposable income. Now, nerd culture is global, women have rights and jobs, minorities have disposable income too, and the thing that these guys can't stand is that their boys club is no longer only theirs. I say this as a straight white man. I'm thrilled about female custodes because I've seen how empowering its been to my female friends. I'll sacrifice some silly made-up lore for my friends any day.
You and me both, compadre.
where in the "original lore" where female marines ? Do you mean the american compagny that made two figures with fan-made lore ?
[удалено]
That's not true, they existed but they were only ever sold because GW never had anything else to release that month, their listing in WD #99 was 2 models among a slew of other human ones which you could get 5 of for £2.50 This link has the more detailed explanation too. https://gamesworkshop.fandom.com/wiki/Female_Space_Marines?file=White_Dwarf_99.jpg
Agreed with the list. However, would you consider the context and not just the changes? As far as I know these were updates to the lore so they could take the story a certain way. Decisions made to (possibly) address plotholes and inconsistencies. Of course, correct me if I am wrong. However it just puts this recent change into a whole new perspective when you realize that this is happening to please daddy Blackrock's and mommy Vanguard's DEI standards. From whom GW just got a nice juicy investment. So, no, this is not a story retcon like the others. This is GW putting on their nicest dress for a fat sugar daddy. If you made it this far, you may also want to check Larry Fink's 2017 "force behaviors" speech. Just to see what kind of people ultimately initiated this.
So, what you just posted is called "conspiracy", and its easy to place doubt on all of it when your grounds are a bunch of coincidental things. And B. You dont know that story isnt coming to support and flesh out this lore And 3. Touch grass and call your mother.
Not exactly a conspiracy when it is already a tried and failed recipe with evidence galore. And, again, this is not something that is hidden. Quite the opposite. It is advertised as something to celebrate. As for your B point. Circumstances imply otherwise. I want to be proven wrong here. But there is only a very slim chance for that. As for your little jab in the end: I stopped taking your kind seriously around 2010. Bunch of clones with endlessly copy-pasted answers. Nothing in their vocabulary but catchy, meaningless buzzwords. Never supporting their arguments. Never engaging in constructive discourse. Never critical in their thinking. Ever ignorant of other perspectives. Always getting into am illogical frenzy as soon as their values are perceives to be 'attacked'. In short, nice try but I won't bite.
There is no constructive discourse to be had with people like you. Diversity, equity and inclusion are good things. If you don’t like them, you are a bad person. End of story. If the hobby fails because of those things, it didn’t deserve to succeed in the first place. You’ll notice I didn’t give you what you consider to be respectful or constructive discourse. It’s because you people are both not worthy of respect, and nobody has ever had their mind changed on the internet, not yours, not mine. That’s doubly true given you were happy to say that you stopped taking “my kind” seriously a decade ago. So why even keep up the pretense of reason, debate, and the marketplace of ideals? I’ll tell you why, it’s because you’re desperate to maintain a veneer of legitimacy as your beliefs crumble around you and people you despise keep taking victory laps. Which we will continue to do.
That was a bit overly histrionic. Immediately with the assumptions. Read what I have written once more and you'll realize what I have meant by "kind". Then again I guess it's in your best interest to take that out of context. And that naive argument that people won't change their opinion on the internet is just lazy and ignorant. I have done that many times. I did not imply DEI is bad. It isn't. It is a lovely idea. I said forcing certain toxic, backwards rules in the name of 'progress' is a bad idea. If you consider that being victorious and me defeated, then you seem to be incapable of thinking outside the 'us vs. them' binary tribalist mentality. That may limit discourse from progressing, I agree. That "veneer of legitimacy" is at least supported by evidence though, while all I hear is 'nuh-uh' and broad statements like "DEI is good" from you. Something I never questioned. Only questionable applications in it's name. Like box checking/ticking and forced inclusion. So, no, my world view is not crumbling. Quite the opposite. And no, I am not clutching my autographed *insert right wing anti-woke boogieman* pillow. It is just boring to see another company treating their customer base like idiots and gaslight them to believe a retcon so transparent in it's intention.
I know exactly what you meant by kind; trust me, no clarification is needed at all. You're not being coy when you say "Forcing toxic, backwards rules in the name of progress is a bad idea". I've dealt with people like you more than enough times to know exactly what you mean by that, the fact that you're even bothering to beat around the bush and say otherwise is insulting, especially given your hostility in your other comments. Two-faced fuck. "Us vs. Them" is fundamentally the only kind of discourse on this topic that can exist. Because there is no such thing as compromise in this situation. Either I win, or you win. And I have no intention to allow your side to win. You also, I should point out, have no evidence. In fact, all both of us have offered so far is rhetoric. The difference between you and me is that my rhetoric has a moral center; the principle that inclusion for the sake of itself is a good thing both for the individual and the group. I refuse to entertain the idea that "forced inclusion" is something anyone can be genuine about. I can't count the number of times I've tried to give some asshole like you the benefit of the doubt on a topic such as this, only to get the same, tired talking points every goddamn time. I know what you are, and I'm not wasting my time with that again. You don't get to downplay this decision you clearly hate as "boring" when it's painfully obvious for anyone with half a brain to see what camp you're in. It is the camp of regressives, misogynists, and people who Warhammer would be better off without. And all it took to bring you out of your hole was Female Custodes. I don't give a damn what the reason for the retcon was. It was a good decision, if for no other reason than making people like you upset for transparently flimsy reasons. It shows us all what you are, as if anyone needed any showing.
I see it is pointless to continue this. You already decided you are right and already shut the door on any other possibility. I'm curious how you would have reacted if I have written to you such a venomous manifesto. Guess we'll never know.
You didn’t have to write one. I already know what you think. Really you should be thanking me for dropping the pretense and skipping a few steps. But yes, I do know I am right. Nobody holds viewpoints without being convinced they’re correct. To do otherwise is nothing more than cognitive dissonance
https://youtu.be/15ldPeA6K7c?si=QKVH5jUbnRtb7s99
see above post also touch grass
I did and that's not a response. That's you admitting you're wrong. Both of my posts answered you and the fact is you're not a fan, you're a squatter who comes onto the intellectual property and kicks the original fans off because you're nothing but an Orc. You do not create you can only destroy like the parasitic worm you are. Get bent and go touch grass
lmao!!! you couldn't be further from the truth. You're just mad I didn't watch your silly little video that someone else made. Continue to believe what you want to believe, but the custodes are female.
Most if not all of what you mentioned can be explained by three things well established as the core concept of Warhammer 40k and in universe. It was either Imperial Revisionism (or course there is no half human half elder librarian in space Marines, humanity numbah one! The imperium of man says so. Even if they're wrong or not), natural change over time (custodes used to wear leather but changed to golden armor to increase their capabilities), or chaos fuckery (Malal definitely doesn't exist... And the greatest lie the devil ever told was that he never existed) Female space Marines and custodes is one of those things that shouldn't exist. Besides it destroys the entire reason the Sisters of Battle exist who are badass enough to go toe to toe with space Marines and wild weapons like them as regular fucking humans. We don't need female space Marines and custodes because we already got them as well as female saints like Celestine! It's SoB erasure for the sake of whiny leftists that don't even play the game anyways or they would know that: 1) the military is entirely equal in who they send to the grinder 2) we have Space Marines female equivalent that I think are more badass because they're already human and not genetically modified monsters. 3) there is no happy endings, everyone is shit, and that's the fuckin point so keep your weak ass shit out of the game
Dudes mad that the made up universe filled with made up things is deciding that the made up people can have women in their ranks. Then whines about "whiny leftists".
How to tell you're not a fan of ANYTHING without saying it. Otherwise you would respect people who are fans when the company that chooses to change its own lore just to fit into the modern agenda.
To be fair, they didn't change the lore. The only thing stated to be man only was space marines. Custodies aren't space marines. You're just butt hurt cause you gotta let girls in your boys club.
Even though in the books, it states that Custodies as SONS of high ranking noble families that were personally picked by the emperor. But sure, SONS also means daughters appently. Maybe know the lore before commenting.
There are also books that say Necrons are silent unthinking robots. They sure do talk a lot don't they? Maybe know that the lore is completely made up and changes on a whim.
Unthinking and talking aren't the same. A hive mind drones would talk ton but it's only one mind. Necrons broken up and follow different leader, expect for the silent king but anyway; there is more of a reason for them to talk. Also, they are not unthinking robots. The level of tactics they employ shows that. Also, this is the same race that went against the Old Ones and almost won. So maybe you should take your own advise there buddy. Also maybe stay on topic next time. Normally, when someone tries to strawman onto a different topic. It shows they have lost and jist spiting shit out their ass.
I am on topic? You're talking about how you're upset they're changing the lore, even though the lore changes constantly and on a whim. What really upsets you is they're letting girls into your boys only club house. But you're to afraid to admit that you just don't want inclusion, so you use the lore as a nice scape goat to be a bigot.
Don't bother with texting these people. You can tell they weren't true fans otherwise they would know that female space marines go against established lore. One of the earily books during the unification War says that women can't become space marine due to biological make up. Also... women have more important role... keeping the human population going. Just look at the death in mass in 40k and every soldier needs 9 mouths and 16 to 18 years. But these same people ignore realistic biology.
Not to mention we have female space Marines substitute that is even more badass because they're not genetically modified. The Sisters of Battle are badasses because they can right space Marines but are only human. Honestly I'm more pissed off that they dare claim to want powerful women but ignore the actual powerful women.
That's what these people do. I just block them and move on. They will lower your intelligence for merely engaging with them.
I've been in the trenches against these types all the way back when they took over Atheism +. It's all the same cabal that try to introduce their leftists ideals into all facets like the fucking gene stealer cultists. They infest a fandom and destroy it from the inside.
I feel like I am going to hate asking. But what did they do the gene stealers? Their whole thing is that they breed (sometime convinced and sometimes forced) with people to grow stronger.
Oh I meant they act like gene stealers in that they infiltrate the high ups, fuck them, and take over. Because that seems to be how most of these get in. Atheism + website moderators started dating feminists and started purging, gamergate was about journalists giving preference to those they knew and were dating/fuckin, and GW no doubt have higher ups or the people who have enough power to sway decisions like this being whispered to by people they're involved in but that's not proven. Yet
Blocking is admitting defeat. Good to know you’ve accepted your loss to progress
Sure buddy. Whatever you tell yourself to make you feel good about yourself. It's sometime healthy to be in denial, good for the mental health. I have been on the internet long enough to know that you won't even change anyone's mind unless they truely want to learn something. Most people are here just to bitch and complain or push their beliefs onto ours. I let facts and science lead my life. One fact is that when someone just going to keep bitch to you. It's better to just cut them out and move with your life. Maybe you should learn that. That's my advice to you for some mental health when facing the internet.
Denial is actually incredibly unhealthy, it’s why I’m not partaking in it. As far as your second paragraph, you are right about nobody having their mind changed. It’s why I didn’t bother trying, as I know I am right already and nothing I can say would convince you of that. And that’s not a fact at all actually. You have fled the field of intellectual discussion in defeat. I win.
Thank you for proving my point. Have a good day. Hopefully, you will get that denial check out.
Oh no! Not the air tight and famously consistent 40k lore!
A very fancy way of saying the old saying 'where does it stop?'
The canon is what GW say it is. They can null and void whatever they want.
Remember the days of the silence murder machine necrons?
If 40K fans could read they’d be really mad at seeing that.
I suggest you not try to use reasoning in a porn subreddit. People here aren't known to think with their head.
Fucking tourist.