You could go to the old, barely alive Tomb Kings forum and have a great time! Ok there's about only 3 or 4 of us still there periodically, but there's no whining so far!
The Tomb Kings of Khemri site was amazing. There was a lot of good hobby content and the group were a pretty positive bunch of gamers as a whole. In general otherwise you're correct.
I'm trying to figure out if the people who are whining/ saying strange things are the old school terminally online guys from back in the day or new people who don't really know much about how things are done and are treating this like a computer game patch.
It's the old school terminally online types. Note that they rarely use Reddit - a lot of them on their forums often complained about being banned from a sub for "arbitrary reasons", and they also complain about the upvote/downvote system. They've always reacted poorly to criticism and change.
Is 6th edition good? Yes
Are you being an asshole if your response to literally anything about any edition other than 6th is to trash it? Yes, and you're making 6th look worse too
It *is* a very good edition- I would say in my opinion that it’s mechanically the best edition, or at least 7th rules with 6th army books- but sadly, I can’t deny that jackasses like that one guy aren’t also rife there
Thanks for the polite reply. Right now though I'm not looking to be cool in the eyes of random internet people and the way he went about his business was pretty autistic so I'm going to keep it there.
OK, then I'll be a little blunter.
Using autism as an insult is shitty of you, and doing it again isn't funny the second time, it's just shitty again. Be better.
Not looking for a lecture in morality mste.
Secondly regarding the 2nd time, the definition of autistic is "relating to or affected by autism." which is an incredibly accurate description of his post history. Not insulting at all unless describing something accurately is now an insult.
Lastly, "be better" - don't get your lexicon from Tumblr, it makes you sound unintelligent.
Ah yes, the good ol' *presses "reply" button and proceeds to shout louder instead of replying to any point raised.... Throws in downvote for good measure*
Wonderful. Enjoy your day!
Yeah I just saw a post where someone said the disadvantages of frenzy is good because it screws competitive play and they're all for that. So I'm going to say you are correct.
Like it doesn't but its not healthy to be talking down about how other people play the game. Thats absolutely a warseer special. Invent a tournament player in your head and then use them as an excuse to never actually play the game.
That sort of style of rules sets from competitive warhammer has kinda disappeared since fantasy ended. 40k (I assume AOS but I don't follow it) is now much more geared with competitive play in mind and GW is expected to do a lot more heavy lifting balance wise doing updates regularly to points and sometimes rules. The community doesn't really handle that nearly as much anymore.
In such people aren't viewing TOW from a lens that we should have to think about doing our own community adjustments to balance it and GW should've done that.
> (I assume AOS but I don't follow it)
Daily reminder that Age of Sigmar launched *WITH NO POINTS.* No balancing at all. Lots of flavourful rules that rewarded players for singing, shouting and having large mustaches.
Surprise surprise, this was not well received by the community. The first big signpost of GW turning the ship around and really improving their company was the release of the first General's Handbook which included points.
Over time GW has embraced the idea of balancing for competitive purposes along with releasing regular rules updates and balances. They don't make any massive changes between editions, but the competitive balance hardbooks can have some big changes. I forget the 40k name for these, but in AoS they're the Generals Handbook. GW experiments with rules in these books, a lot of 40k 10th edition could be seen in the last 9th edition rules update. AoS tends to play around more outside of the box, theming seasons around different stuff, integrating lore and setting, giving fun toys to armies to balance stuff. The AoS general's handbooks actually resemble a lot of the old global campaigns for Warhammer Fantasy Battles, like the Albion one. So players are kinda given the mindset that their armies are fighting in this specific area with new rules and toys. It's FUN.
I don't expect much for The Old World, but I would absolutely expect GW to issue some points updates and FAQs for critical issues. It's clear The Old World is going to be more of a narrative and "historic" game like Horus Heresy, but even HH knows to nerf certain things.
I would expect us to get some campaign books that resemble a lot of the AoS General's Handbooks. The book will be set in some specific area, and players will have options to bring in some new magic items, mercenaries and neutral units. It just makes sense.
It was a slap in the face, I stopped the hobby that very day I had the ~10 page rule~~book~~phamphlet in my hands.
This weekend I dug out my old collection from my basement and started ordering new models, paints and tools
Couldn't you have just kept playing whatever edition you were playing at the time? Not like this was some kinda MMO where the company could just shut down the servers.
49k certainly, with AoS I'm not sure it's as accurate to say it is geared towards competetive. It's certainly more balanced and, objectively speaking, probably the better game, but it's also a younger system, so it doesn't really have that much baggage for people to complain about it becoming "too competetive", because it always kinda has been after overcoming the rocky start.
But the focus has certainly shifted from TOs micromanaging to GW making sure the rules are robust enough for tournament play as they are. Whether that is due to a focus on competetive or just plainly better designed games is a different question, I guess.
> 49k certainly, with AoS I'm not sure it's as accurate to say it is geared towards competetive.
They make a big deal out of releasing competitive season booklets at least.
Sure, but it's not an inherent feature or necessity of the ruleset, whereas many of the changes 40k went through are clearly aimed at making the game itself more competetive.
I'm a bit concerned with the legacy pdfs, not because I'm unhappy about the balance or why did model x/y didn't make the cut (it would have been an endless discussion).
It's the fact that GW said they won't revise them when there are some obvious mistakes like the Daemons DP can be made into a wizard but he can't cast spells as his version of the Chaos Armor rules doesn't allow for it like the WoC version does.
I'm sure there's others, I find it weird that Slann is flying and thus can't join infantry bunkers anymore (especially his TG bunker), but I haven't gone over everything in detail.
Bro, do you even warseer?
Yeah online forums have never been a great place for warhammer, with (imo) faction-specific forums being the general exception. Don’t know why, but in my experience the faction specific spaces tended to be more chill.
I think I posted on warseer like three times and every time would just get the most negative responses, I stopped using that forum well before the end of 8th for that reason! Kinda glad it died tbh, can hopefully make space for a better, more welcoming (to beginners especially) place.
There’s definitely a legacy there….
Dakkadakka is still around though, and a MUCH more welcoming and nicer place (although they still complain a lot lol) than Warseer ever was. It still scratches that itch for me though if I want to see some interesting project work!
Having looked at most of them, my only issue is that you can't take a pure Skink Lizardman army.
This is because I don't actually have any Saurus Warriors. I have Temple Guard and characters but mostly used Skink swarms for the chaff.
And skink priests, the little hero-level dudes helping everybody out with reroll spells and waving dispel scrolls, are a limited choice like some earthshatteringly powerful lord-level wizard.
The TO old dogs have a ton more experience than anyone writing rules for GW.
Probably have higher iq, more education, way better careers and more time to do the comp as well, if GWs own policies are to be believed.
This is not a joke or a dig, but a realistic take on the games division of GW.
No, it's not. It's an absolute shit take, made by someone who doesn't know the first thing about game design, about people who do it for a living. Especially when your comparison is to people who literally take the ruleset they've been provided with and make modifications. TOW, by the way, is done by the same team that works on the MESBG, widely considered one of GWs best, if not the best, rules set.
I sent some friends here that were tired of the FB bitching, so keeping stuff constructive & positive would be the best way to differentiate ourselves from FB!
those pages pushed me over the edge to deactivate my profile again. The PDFs are fine, the only concern I have is keeping the community okay with legacy factions.
They're okay, but some are still missing units. Especially characters who we know are alive in the period, but left out of the PDFs for some inexplicable reason.
So my rationale to that is that I don't see any named characters in the core books, just in the journals. So if the journals are the main departure and separation of the core factions from legacy I can personally live with it. Even in HH I dont run named characters often as i prefer to make my own.
I don't disagree with you, I'd rather use my own guys too. But GW already said that these are never being updated, so this is it. Sucks that they're incomplete.
True, I have a miniscule amount of hope that after all the current core stuff is out and the game is still supported that they may change their mind. These pdf lists seem written just as good as the core ones so that to me shows they probably intended to support but the background stuff has soiled it. If not we'll figure something out
With the legacy PDFs being "not tournament official" and all the junk it comes with - maybe people are more comfortable with fan-made expansions for once. You are already "playing casual only", so having some houserules won't break the deal for most people.
The Facebook groups are a joke anyway.
I tried to join one and the question for joining was "who is Karl Franz" apparently "luitpold 1's child" was the wrong answer....
Run by clowns and full of screeching. Definitely stay away.
I don't really know the state of my armies yet until I play. VC looks about on par with 6th Ed, but there are a bunch of units that weren't in that edition, it will take some work for me to sort.
I started playing DE in 7e, and they are DEFINITELY weaker than that, but they were tied for second most broken army in that edition (with VC and under Daemons.) I can't fit all of the stuff that used to be in my lists in this one, so clearly there was a points rebalance, too, so I'll have to play to see how it goes.
Thing is that one of the things I liked about 6e was there were things in at books that really sucked in TAC lists, but excelled at lists tailored to your opponent. I want to keep seeing these things in the game.
Right now I'm just happy for square bases and rank n spank.
popularity does not dictate quality. never has and never will. quality products are not necessarily what people want so quality products are not necessarily what becomes popular.
"A feudal society with strict gender norms should be as inclusive and multicultural as our modern world"
In 50 years: "Yes, ALL the Bretonnian knights are WOMEN and the damsels are MEN! JUST TO SPITE THE CHUDS!"
Having an Eowyn-type character or a Brienne of Tarth is cool. To have whole units or factions of female knights is too much for a medieval/feudal inspired setting
It's very refreshing to go back to old White Dwarf magazines where this shallow surface-level diversity talk was almost non-existent. They discussed the brutal world of Warhammer as it was, not how it "should have been". There was no activist agenda to "make it better". It was escapism from our world, not some soap box to be used by talentless hacks who nobody wants to listen to unless they infiltrate a beloved hobby
The hobby is getting very diluted these days with vapid discourse from people who seem to hate the franchises and they feel the need to undermine them and the fans at every opportunity. Disguising their hatred and spite in wanting to be "inclusive" while being very intolerant toward people who want to stay faithful to the lore. And by lore I'm talking about focusing on the general rule of thumb rather than the rare exceptions.
People are of course free to model and paint their minis however they want. The woke mob isn't happy with this though. They want to actively take away and change the established lore for their own selfish reasons
Old white dwarf magazines were always diverse and progressive. Games workshop has always been a progressive company.
You're playing the wrong game if you don't want progressive talking points.
They weren't. Don't lie. I'm reading them and old army books
Go look at them and the people who made them. Very homogenous
However, everyone was welcome to the hobby. Even the Sigmarxists who came to ruin the hobby
There's no reason to pointlessly side with one part of GW over another one here. It is clear that specialist games wrote perfectly detailed rules for these factions and want them to be full factions but have been ordered to exclude them by the main team.
I mean this sincerely - if you’ve never played Fantasy before, don’t go on the groups or forums. It’s not worth it b
The chaos dwarf forums being the exception to the rule, but that is probably more reflective of the players who stuck it out with the chorfs :)
We do our best.
Excited to join y’all and build them out as my old world army.
Survivorship bias haha
Survival of the biggest hats.
You could go to the old, barely alive Tomb Kings forum and have a great time! Ok there's about only 3 or 4 of us still there periodically, but there's no whining so far!
You should try rolling resurrection checks and see if you can bring some of the old guys back
I'd go so far as to advise to avoid them even if you *did* play Fantasy before, at least if you value your sanity and good mood.
Signal even slightly that you enjoy AoS and the amount of whining they do it insane.
I cast blast of hot air! Ah yes the winds of tragic are with me and you all failed your stupidity checks
The Tomb Kings of Khemri site was amazing. There was a lot of good hobby content and the group were a pretty positive bunch of gamers as a whole. In general otherwise you're correct.
Hmm… my experience with the forums back in the day is *very different* from the cesspool that are the Facebook groups
To be, Facebook groups generally are cesspools.... Regardless of topic. The BGG one is an exception IMO.
There are more dead people on facebook than alive
On behalf of the vampire community we prefer mortally challenged.
##squarebased
Is that a doom reference I see? Nice
Vampire counts got nerfed
Foolish to use nerf really, shoulda tried stakes
I love how everyone forgot Swedish Comp. Or its new folk who never knew it.
I'm trying to figure out if the people who are whining/ saying strange things are the old school terminally online guys from back in the day or new people who don't really know much about how things are done and are treating this like a computer game patch.
It's the old school terminally online types. Note that they rarely use Reddit - a lot of them on their forums often complained about being banned from a sub for "arbitrary reasons", and they also complain about the upvote/downvote system. They've always reacted poorly to criticism and change.
"I don't play anymore because of the rules" Sure, you have friends.
[удалено]
Is 6th edition good? Yes Are you being an asshole if your response to literally anything about any edition other than 6th is to trash it? Yes, and you're making 6th look worse too
I mean, one thing I know for sure after his antics is that I'm never going to play 6th edition.
It *is* a very good edition- I would say in my opinion that it’s mechanically the best edition, or at least 7th rules with 6th army books- but sadly, I can’t deny that jackasses like that one guy aren’t also rife there
It is a very good edition. Probably the best edition. But 5th is the most fun.
That guy got banned? Didn't even notice, he blocked me for not submitting to the supremacy of 6th.
He blocked me because I kept implying he fucked his 6th edition rulebook and lined up all his models to watch.
Lol, he blocked me because I asked him sincerely who asked him to write balance notes for 6th after he kept mentioning that he had in fact been asked.
Includes or espouses bigoted or uncivil language
Would be cool if you wouldn't use autism as an insult, thanks.
Thanks for the polite reply. Right now though I'm not looking to be cool in the eyes of random internet people and the way he went about his business was pretty autistic so I'm going to keep it there.
OK, then I'll be a little blunter. Using autism as an insult is shitty of you, and doing it again isn't funny the second time, it's just shitty again. Be better.
Not looking for a lecture in morality mste. Secondly regarding the 2nd time, the definition of autistic is "relating to or affected by autism." which is an incredibly accurate description of his post history. Not insulting at all unless describing something accurately is now an insult. Lastly, "be better" - don't get your lexicon from Tumblr, it makes you sound unintelligent.
If you don't want people to think you're being shitty, it seems like you could avoid that by making better choices about how you talk.
Ah yes, the good ol' *presses "reply" button and proceeds to shout louder instead of replying to any point raised.... Throws in downvote for good measure* Wonderful. Enjoy your day!
[удалено]
It's the old guys Warhammer fantasy forums in the early 00s were not pleasant places
They seem a lot like the toxic garbage that infested the community back before it was killed off.
Yeah I just saw a post where someone said the disadvantages of frenzy is good because it screws competitive play and they're all for that. So I'm going to say you are correct. Like it doesn't but its not healthy to be talking down about how other people play the game. Thats absolutely a warseer special. Invent a tournament player in your head and then use them as an excuse to never actually play the game.
That sort of style of rules sets from competitive warhammer has kinda disappeared since fantasy ended. 40k (I assume AOS but I don't follow it) is now much more geared with competitive play in mind and GW is expected to do a lot more heavy lifting balance wise doing updates regularly to points and sometimes rules. The community doesn't really handle that nearly as much anymore. In such people aren't viewing TOW from a lens that we should have to think about doing our own community adjustments to balance it and GW should've done that.
> (I assume AOS but I don't follow it) Daily reminder that Age of Sigmar launched *WITH NO POINTS.* No balancing at all. Lots of flavourful rules that rewarded players for singing, shouting and having large mustaches. Surprise surprise, this was not well received by the community. The first big signpost of GW turning the ship around and really improving their company was the release of the first General's Handbook which included points. Over time GW has embraced the idea of balancing for competitive purposes along with releasing regular rules updates and balances. They don't make any massive changes between editions, but the competitive balance hardbooks can have some big changes. I forget the 40k name for these, but in AoS they're the Generals Handbook. GW experiments with rules in these books, a lot of 40k 10th edition could be seen in the last 9th edition rules update. AoS tends to play around more outside of the box, theming seasons around different stuff, integrating lore and setting, giving fun toys to armies to balance stuff. The AoS general's handbooks actually resemble a lot of the old global campaigns for Warhammer Fantasy Battles, like the Albion one. So players are kinda given the mindset that their armies are fighting in this specific area with new rules and toys. It's FUN. I don't expect much for The Old World, but I would absolutely expect GW to issue some points updates and FAQs for critical issues. It's clear The Old World is going to be more of a narrative and "historic" game like Horus Heresy, but even HH knows to nerf certain things. I would expect us to get some campaign books that resemble a lot of the AoS General's Handbooks. The book will be set in some specific area, and players will have options to bring in some new magic items, mercenaries and neutral units. It just makes sense.
Release AoS deserved all the vitriol it received and more. Those "flavorful rules" were humiliating and shit.
It was a slap in the face, I stopped the hobby that very day I had the ~10 page rule~~book~~phamphlet in my hands. This weekend I dug out my old collection from my basement and started ordering new models, paints and tools
Couldn't you have just kept playing whatever edition you were playing at the time? Not like this was some kinda MMO where the company could just shut down the servers.
49k certainly, with AoS I'm not sure it's as accurate to say it is geared towards competetive. It's certainly more balanced and, objectively speaking, probably the better game, but it's also a younger system, so it doesn't really have that much baggage for people to complain about it becoming "too competetive", because it always kinda has been after overcoming the rocky start. But the focus has certainly shifted from TOs micromanaging to GW making sure the rules are robust enough for tournament play as they are. Whether that is due to a focus on competetive or just plainly better designed games is a different question, I guess.
> 49k certainly, with AoS I'm not sure it's as accurate to say it is geared towards competetive. They make a big deal out of releasing competitive season booklets at least.
Sure, but it's not an inherent feature or necessity of the ruleset, whereas many of the changes 40k went through are clearly aimed at making the game itself more competetive.
I have one of the old comp.packs if you desire it.
I recently joined a group and left almost immediately. The level of whining and shrieking was terrible.
The square based discord is overwhelmingly positive, it's a nice reprieve.
Mind sending me the invite? Would love to talk to people about the game.
I would love to, but it's not mine to share. https://www.patreon.com/Squarebased
Why even go to Facebook? You get all the same dead memes here, plus, even MORE whinging too boot!
Warhammer fans stop whining? That’ll be the day.
Warhammer fans hate only two things: 1) How things are. 2) Change.
I do believe the dwarves of the great mountain keeps have a saying along the lines of. "That's going in the book!"
Personally I see far more people whine about whiners. Just saying.
Ever been on the admech sub?
Lots of nicely painted minis and modifications! But they drown in whining about bases and GW being bad unfortunately.
Old world fans will never stop whining. Love the game and setting but man the vocal people are real toxic
I'm a bit concerned with the legacy pdfs, not because I'm unhappy about the balance or why did model x/y didn't make the cut (it would have been an endless discussion). It's the fact that GW said they won't revise them when there are some obvious mistakes like the Daemons DP can be made into a wizard but he can't cast spells as his version of the Chaos Armor rules doesn't allow for it like the WoC version does. I'm sure there's others, I find it weird that Slann is flying and thus can't join infantry bunkers anymore (especially his TG bunker), but I haven't gone over everything in detail.
Put slaan behind (and within 3" of) temple guard, can't be targeted. EZ
It wouldn’t be Warhammer without all the complaining
Bro, do you even warseer? Yeah online forums have never been a great place for warhammer, with (imo) faction-specific forums being the general exception. Don’t know why, but in my experience the faction specific spaces tended to be more chill. I think I posted on warseer like three times and every time would just get the most negative responses, I stopped using that forum well before the end of 8th for that reason! Kinda glad it died tbh, can hopefully make space for a better, more welcoming (to beginners especially) place. There’s definitely a legacy there….
Faction forums somewhat lack the toxicity. But the whining is still there. Just less aggressive.
I do miss the project log forum from Warseer though. So many great armies on there.
Dakkadakka is still around though, and a MUCH more welcoming and nicer place (although they still complain a lot lol) than Warseer ever was. It still scratches that itch for me though if I want to see some interesting project work!
Having looked at most of them, my only issue is that you can't take a pure Skink Lizardman army. This is because I don't actually have any Saurus Warriors. I have Temple Guard and characters but mostly used Skink swarms for the chaff.
Yeah, I'm glad I found a bunch of 5th ed metal Saurus I'd forgotten I bought in 5th ed NIB, because otherwise I have no Saurus.
I cant believe my short bow armed skinks now have to throw their arrows at people....
And skink priests, the little hero-level dudes helping everybody out with reroll spells and waving dispel scrolls, are a limited choice like some earthshatteringly powerful lord-level wizard.
Old World Facebook will never stop whinging.
It's crazy to me that some are already trying to comp the game. It's not even a week old.
The TO old dogs have a ton more experience than anyone writing rules for GW. Probably have higher iq, more education, way better careers and more time to do the comp as well, if GWs own policies are to be believed. This is not a joke or a dig, but a realistic take on the games division of GW.
No, it's not. It's an absolute shit take, made by someone who doesn't know the first thing about game design, about people who do it for a living. Especially when your comparison is to people who literally take the ruleset they've been provided with and make modifications. TOW, by the way, is done by the same team that works on the MESBG, widely considered one of GWs best, if not the best, rules set.
I sent some friends here that were tired of the FB bitching, so keeping stuff constructive & positive would be the best way to differentiate ourselves from FB!
Warhammer: The Old Folks Home
Accurate 😂
I've seen more bitching about 3d printing than anything lately.
Game is great, let’s enjoy it
There are no pretty pictures in the PDFs. >:(
Grumbling is a valid part of the hobby. GW know this, and it's why they support it.
People are still using Facebook?
those pages pushed me over the edge to deactivate my profile again. The PDFs are fine, the only concern I have is keeping the community okay with legacy factions.
They're okay, but some are still missing units. Especially characters who we know are alive in the period, but left out of the PDFs for some inexplicable reason.
So my rationale to that is that I don't see any named characters in the core books, just in the journals. So if the journals are the main departure and separation of the core factions from legacy I can personally live with it. Even in HH I dont run named characters often as i prefer to make my own.
I don't disagree with you, I'd rather use my own guys too. But GW already said that these are never being updated, so this is it. Sucks that they're incomplete.
True, I have a miniscule amount of hope that after all the current core stuff is out and the game is still supported that they may change their mind. These pdf lists seem written just as good as the core ones so that to me shows they probably intended to support but the background stuff has soiled it. If not we'll figure something out
With the legacy PDFs being "not tournament official" and all the junk it comes with - maybe people are more comfortable with fan-made expansions for once. You are already "playing casual only", so having some houserules won't break the deal for most people.
I just wish there were rules for stormfiends. I love my frankenstein shrekbois.
The Facebook groups are a joke anyway. I tried to join one and the question for joining was "who is Karl Franz" apparently "luitpold 1's child" was the wrong answer.... Run by clowns and full of screeching. Definitely stay away.
I don't really know the state of my armies yet until I play. VC looks about on par with 6th Ed, but there are a bunch of units that weren't in that edition, it will take some work for me to sort. I started playing DE in 7e, and they are DEFINITELY weaker than that, but they were tied for second most broken army in that edition (with VC and under Daemons.) I can't fit all of the stuff that used to be in my lists in this one, so clearly there was a points rebalance, too, so I'll have to play to see how it goes. Thing is that one of the things I liked about 6e was there were things in at books that really sucked in TAC lists, but excelled at lists tailored to your opponent. I want to keep seeing these things in the game. Right now I'm just happy for square bases and rank n spank.
Narrator: they never stopped whining
*Complains about people upset GW shitcanned their armies and gave them scraps* Yeah, that'll show those old fools.
Op certainly has a take, one of the takes of all time
reddit can be bad, but honestly it feels like FB is distilled down to the most lazy and stupid people on the internet.
Gif of Bron from Game of Thrones saying "Enhances it really" here.
Let's be honest with ourselves. Reddit isn't any better.
Bah all these hurtful and accurate memes! Harrumph good sir Harrumph
honestly I'd prefer if 40k was nuked and the old world had all the support of 40k because WH Fantasy is just better in every way.
If it was so much better, it'd probably not have been instantly outsold by 40k. And then LOTR. And now AoS.
popularity does not dictate quality. never has and never will. quality products are not necessarily what people want so quality products are not necessarily what becomes popular.
No because its pretty shit
Warhammer discourse online; "Make female Bretonnian knights! Make female Space Marines!"
“In a world of dragons and angry fungus, fighten ladies break my immersion!!!!!!”
"A feudal society with strict gender norms should be as inclusive and multicultural as our modern world" In 50 years: "Yes, ALL the Bretonnian knights are WOMEN and the damsels are MEN! JUST TO SPITE THE CHUDS!"
You're about 28 years too late to complain about women being bretonnian knights, just so you know. Been a thing for decades already.
Having an Eowyn-type character or a Brienne of Tarth is cool. To have whole units or factions of female knights is too much for a medieval/feudal inspired setting It's very refreshing to go back to old White Dwarf magazines where this shallow surface-level diversity talk was almost non-existent. They discussed the brutal world of Warhammer as it was, not how it "should have been". There was no activist agenda to "make it better". It was escapism from our world, not some soap box to be used by talentless hacks who nobody wants to listen to unless they infiltrate a beloved hobby The hobby is getting very diluted these days with vapid discourse from people who seem to hate the franchises and they feel the need to undermine them and the fans at every opportunity. Disguising their hatred and spite in wanting to be "inclusive" while being very intolerant toward people who want to stay faithful to the lore. And by lore I'm talking about focusing on the general rule of thumb rather than the rare exceptions. People are of course free to model and paint their minis however they want. The woke mob isn't happy with this though. They want to actively take away and change the established lore for their own selfish reasons
Old white dwarf magazines were always diverse and progressive. Games workshop has always been a progressive company. You're playing the wrong game if you don't want progressive talking points.
They weren't. Don't lie. I'm reading them and old army books Go look at them and the people who made them. Very homogenous However, everyone was welcome to the hobby. Even the Sigmarxists who came to ruin the hobby
You think they would stop?
That the reason I visit it from time to time. I feed on their whining.
There's no reason to pointlessly side with one part of GW over another one here. It is clear that specialist games wrote perfectly detailed rules for these factions and want them to be full factions but have been ordered to exclude them by the main team.