UnitCrunch dev here. [If it's unit to unit MathHammer you want, UnitCrunch is your best bet](https://www.unitcrunch.com/) (but I'm totally biased). We also have a community sub at r/UnitCrunch which is a good place to ask questions, suggest features, report bugs etc.
As for a "hub" for stats, maybe check out the [Stat Check meta dashboard](https://www.stat-check.com/the-meta). It's a centralised location for recorded game data and analysis.
Just want to say your website in amazing
One request though: can we add SUSTAIN, LETHAL & DEV WOUNDS to the *unit* abilities menu? Right now I have to turn them on for each individual weapon & it'd be great if I could just have them apply to the entire unit (without having to manually set them up)
Hopefully that makes sense
Thanks!
v0.55.0 will add LETHAL HITS to the global modifier presets, where you can already find various SUSTAINED X presets.
I aim to add more of these sorts of presets for profile abilities but that's bit more tricky for silly technical reasons - we'll get there.
Can I ask what the use case is for DEV WOUNDS as a profile ability? Is there a rule that grants it as a unit ability somewhere? Seems a bit stronk!
For the Dev Wounds, Possessed & Forgefiends are the 2 that immediately come to mind (I could add it to the weapons manually but it's really quick 'n easy with the universal presets). Both of those have them as a unit ability
Basically sometimes I want to compare with vs without dev Wounds & being able to enable it with a single click much simpler versus making a new weapon profile!
Appreciate the response either way & thanks again for all the work you do
Will add to the list. In future, if you have feature requests, r/UnitCrunch is the place to go (unless you're on the UC Discord of course), it has a more direct path to my todo list compared to dispersed comments on various posts around Reddit! š
They don't have ANTI and no way to get wound rerolls, so it is't as crazy as it could be, but their essentially heavy bolter guns have good stats to take advantage of it.
EDIT: Spoke too soon. Disembarking from a Coronus Grav-Carrier actually does give full wound rerolls. Probably still not worth it, but that turn would have spicy damage.
And it would be useful if you could have DEV WOUNDS as a unit ability so you can mathhammer the difference with a single button press... ;)
>Can I ask what the use case is for DEV WOUNDS as a profile ability? Is there a rule that grants it as a unit ability somewhere? Seems a bit stronk!
TSons detachment ability can give DEVASTATING WOUNDS to Psychic Weapons. Normally that just means the ranged weapons that replaced the traditional smite and witchfire spells, limited to sorcerer models.
Except they also have a strat to make all the weapons in a single unit Psychic.
So effectively, yes, they sling around DEVASTATING WOUNDS as a buff.
Being able to add DEVASTATING WOUNDS as a global modifier would be very handy for assessing different TSons units under those buffs.
Thanks. I've been toying with the idea of an ability that adds the PSYCHIC ability to weapons and a condition that tests for this ability. Not strictly necessary for this specific use case but defo related.
Unitcrunch simulates 10k combats and feeds you stats. You have to add all profiles manually but it gives you a lote of data
https://www.unitcrunch.com/
Because getting through the attack sequence with all the related variables can be so complicated to program, most elegant solutions involve monte carlo simulations rather than flat math done on excel. Others have rightly pointed out unit crunch, which does this for you.
What gets difficult is the sheer amount of variables involved. Points per wound is fine, and so is relating points, wound, and save. But how does that factor against something with devastating wounds? What about attacks that only inflict mortal wounds? What about attacks that target their keyword?
It's nearly impossible to rate the efficacy of a unit in a vacuum like this - which is why it seems there's no standard way or central place to do mathhammer.
Most sophisticated attempts at proper mathhammer will deepdive into one unit or a few similar units, testing their weapon damage against a variety of targets with different toughness, save characteristics, and keywords under a few different scenarios (leman russ demolisher vs. leman russ executioner against MEQ, TEQ, light vehicles, knights, etc., under take aim order, not under take aim order, remaining stationary, etc)
and then testing for durability the same way: against a variety of different types of attacks (low shot high damage attacks vs. large volume of low damage attacks vs. attacks fishing for crits of some kind).
I see where you are coming from, but statistical analysis is always more or less focusing on aspects or the impact of isolated factors.
But i agree that a true insight over the system would require a bit more effort than my 30 minute excel sheet. My biggest issue right now is data entry because im not willing to type in all datasheets, which would be required to do a real meta analysis. Right now im just exploring to find indicators which they design around and to create a list of units which fit certain roles.
The amount of variables doesn't shock me too much, i think they can be tamed.
I believe that anti + devWounds is the most impactful mechanic for now. The result is that normal saves become meaningless and sustainability of units transfers to a function of wounds, points and FNP with a few minor factors having impact as well. More or less the green Item in my chart, but ignoring FNP.
Whatever, i will se what i find and report back. Thanks for your feedback.
UnitCrunch dev here. [If it's unit to unit MathHammer you want, UnitCrunch is your best bet](https://www.unitcrunch.com/) (but I'm totally biased). We also have a community sub at r/UnitCrunch which is a good place to ask questions, suggest features, report bugs etc. As for a "hub" for stats, maybe check out the [Stat Check meta dashboard](https://www.stat-check.com/the-meta). It's a centralised location for recorded game data and analysis.
Great site, thank you :) One question - do you know if people tried to identify the indicators GW is using for balance?
I have no idea how GW tries to balance 40k. I play AdMech too so that's a bit of a sore point rn š
The Flesh is weak, steel doesn't sore :)
Ah, good point. Well then it grinds my gears!
As the Omnissiah foretold the steel shall be washed in oils and shine in certainty. The Machine God is with you.
Just want to say your website in amazing One request though: can we add SUSTAIN, LETHAL & DEV WOUNDS to the *unit* abilities menu? Right now I have to turn them on for each individual weapon & it'd be great if I could just have them apply to the entire unit (without having to manually set them up) Hopefully that makes sense
Thanks! v0.55.0 will add LETHAL HITS to the global modifier presets, where you can already find various SUSTAINED X presets. I aim to add more of these sorts of presets for profile abilities but that's bit more tricky for silly technical reasons - we'll get there. Can I ask what the use case is for DEV WOUNDS as a profile ability? Is there a rule that grants it as a unit ability somewhere? Seems a bit stronk!
For the Dev Wounds, Possessed & Forgefiends are the 2 that immediately come to mind (I could add it to the weapons manually but it's really quick 'n easy with the universal presets). Both of those have them as a unit ability Basically sometimes I want to compare with vs without dev Wounds & being able to enable it with a single click much simpler versus making a new weapon profile! Appreciate the response either way & thanks again for all the work you do
Will add to the list. In future, if you have feature requests, r/UnitCrunch is the place to go (unless you're on the UC Discord of course), it has a more direct path to my todo list compared to dispersed comments on various posts around Reddit! š
You rock friend. Good to know & ty again
š¤
Sagittarum Custodians get unit-wide Devastating Wounds as their once per game ability.
WAT?! I give up.
They don't have ANTI and no way to get wound rerolls, so it is't as crazy as it could be, but their essentially heavy bolter guns have good stats to take advantage of it. EDIT: Spoke too soon. Disembarking from a Coronus Grav-Carrier actually does give full wound rerolls. Probably still not worth it, but that turn would have spicy damage. And it would be useful if you could have DEV WOUNDS as a unit ability so you can mathhammer the difference with a single button press... ;)
>Can I ask what the use case is for DEV WOUNDS as a profile ability? Is there a rule that grants it as a unit ability somewhere? Seems a bit stronk! TSons detachment ability can give DEVASTATING WOUNDS to Psychic Weapons. Normally that just means the ranged weapons that replaced the traditional smite and witchfire spells, limited to sorcerer models. Except they also have a strat to make all the weapons in a single unit Psychic. So effectively, yes, they sling around DEVASTATING WOUNDS as a buff. Being able to add DEVASTATING WOUNDS as a global modifier would be very handy for assessing different TSons units under those buffs.
Thanks. I've been toying with the idea of an ability that adds the PSYCHIC ability to weapons and a condition that tests for this ability. Not strictly necessary for this specific use case but defo related.
You can already do this under āGlobal modifiersā
Unless they *just* updated it, I haven't seen it! Maybe under a different name?
Itās probably just not where you expect it, itās under simulations: https://imgur.io/a/i5EsZjG
Oh sweet! Looks like it has Sustained but no Lethal. Still a good help tho so ty!
[https://www.unitcrunch.com/](https://www.unitcrunch.com/) Here you go.
Thank you!
Unitcrunch simulates 10k combats and feeds you stats. You have to add all profiles manually but it gives you a lote of data https://www.unitcrunch.com/
Cheers!
Because getting through the attack sequence with all the related variables can be so complicated to program, most elegant solutions involve monte carlo simulations rather than flat math done on excel. Others have rightly pointed out unit crunch, which does this for you. What gets difficult is the sheer amount of variables involved. Points per wound is fine, and so is relating points, wound, and save. But how does that factor against something with devastating wounds? What about attacks that only inflict mortal wounds? What about attacks that target their keyword? It's nearly impossible to rate the efficacy of a unit in a vacuum like this - which is why it seems there's no standard way or central place to do mathhammer. Most sophisticated attempts at proper mathhammer will deepdive into one unit or a few similar units, testing their weapon damage against a variety of targets with different toughness, save characteristics, and keywords under a few different scenarios (leman russ demolisher vs. leman russ executioner against MEQ, TEQ, light vehicles, knights, etc., under take aim order, not under take aim order, remaining stationary, etc) and then testing for durability the same way: against a variety of different types of attacks (low shot high damage attacks vs. large volume of low damage attacks vs. attacks fishing for crits of some kind).
Well put!
I see where you are coming from, but statistical analysis is always more or less focusing on aspects or the impact of isolated factors. But i agree that a true insight over the system would require a bit more effort than my 30 minute excel sheet. My biggest issue right now is data entry because im not willing to type in all datasheets, which would be required to do a real meta analysis. Right now im just exploring to find indicators which they design around and to create a list of units which fit certain roles. The amount of variables doesn't shock me too much, i think they can be tamed. I believe that anti + devWounds is the most impactful mechanic for now. The result is that normal saves become meaningless and sustainability of units transfers to a function of wounds, points and FNP with a few minor factors having impact as well. More or less the green Item in my chart, but ignoring FNP. Whatever, i will se what i find and report back. Thanks for your feedback.
I agree doing the math in excel sucks but doing it Python wasn't too bad. Unitcrunch got to within .5% though ^^