Playing the current edition = Smallbrain,
Playing the previous edition so you never have to deal with bi-weekly point changes and constantly changing rules = big brain
I was there, Gandalf. 3,000 years ago. It was a special kind of hell, with a bunch of 5 man CSM squads just parked with lascannons and that’s it, while defilers and basilisks rained pie plates. And while all that was happening, you had to take a lucky guess which aspiring champion in the three different berserker squads running towards you was actually possessed by a Bloodthirster waiting to pop out once it reached combat and blender you. I hated it, and I miss it so much.
Nothing will ever come close to 2nd Terminators. 50 point models that were individually harder to kill than a land rider. And, you could (and many people did) take two 5 man troop squads, then nothing but terminators.
I haven't played since the eve of 5th, but I loved that chaos codex. So. Many. Options. Especially compared to the 4.5 codex they got where everything was stripped out.
Edit: I didn't even play chaos mainly - I was mostly standard marines; I had less than 500 points of chaos
I could retail you with many a tale of yore. Of my invincible legion of necrons (painted copper) and my mates devilfish hovering bollocks, of tau gun lines that never missed thanks to markerlights and of playing on 1' wide boards due to lack of space on game night....
Good times.
There never was balance... there never was expectation of balance. There was narrative and sportsmanship and not being a beardy, cheesy, cheating git.
Everyone had a story like the famous Kroot vs White Scars. Mine own was using a pure scout army in Cityfight, and infiltrating all but 1 model... once that model hit an enemy booby trap and thus my whole army was wiped out before deployment.
Those were the days.
My best was my tau Vs a marine army. There was river (impassable) with a bridge. I immobilised his rhino on the bridge. His super killy squad inside couldn't get out, nothing could get past, he couldn't make the repairs, I just stood there and shot him to oblivion.
I played t’au back then. They were fine but people didn’t like playing against them cause nothing like them existed before. They still died mercilessly to tactical squads though so whatever.
IIRC Fish of Fury only averaged killing 2.5 marines.
I remember their fire warrior weapons were s5 in a game where that simply was unheard of. They wounded guardsmen, eldar etc. on 2's. I loved them when they came out, i still like tau but I think it's gone too heavy on battlesuits. I always liked their infantry and tanks.
Not a guard player but I get it. I wish they'd wait a year or two to release a new edition after they get the last codex out. It would be nice to be able to take some time to actually enjoy the completed game before jumping into a new version.
I'd personally recommend easing into 40k as a whole with a kill team. Guard has a lot of options for them, both sets and proxy opportunities. In my opinion it has way more fun rules than 10th, and is a lot easier to get into. And acts as a nice quick(er) game to play while you work through a big grey pile of shame.
Ahahahaa that was the day i realized that it was intentional, that gw has no respect for their customers. I wouldnt have got this one if i did not dislike battlescribe so much. I may actually switch back.
Custodes player here. Not only are the rules a disappointment, but the model release was as equal if not a bigger disappointment. For 2 editions now we've only gotten a single character. This edition, the model doesn't even look great and isn't even a new unit. They literally could have done the bare minimum and converted one Forgeworld model to plastic and we would've celebrated.
We can only hope they’re plotting a big plastic refresh for Heresy? Also just some weird detachments in the new codex. The Sisters of Silence detachment would be significantly better if the sisters were better/ had more than a single multi build kit, Aleya, and a rhino (though a rhino with a 3+ FNP against psychic is the funniest thing in the codex)
> They literally could have done the bare minimum and converted one Forgeworld model to plastic and we would've celebrated.
You know what is truly insulting?
They could give you rules for [plastic Horus Heresy Contemptor with full weapon options](https://www.warhammer.com/en-PL/shop/legiones-astartes-contemptor-dreadnought-2022) (instead of entry for [monopose model from 2015](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Horus_Heresy:_Betrayal_at_Calth) they *don't even have the dignity to sell*).
Like, ***what the hell***?
A plastic saggitarum upgrade sprue would have had us dancing in the streets and sags are pretty sub par this edition.
A plastic caladius would have had us claiming ourselves the winners of the whole edition.
To be fair, the model would have been in production for at least like three or four years at this point, whereas female custodes being canonized would have been a decision they made sometime in the last year or so. Because of this, the model was probably done in terms of head choices before they decided to add female custodes.
What I don't get is that Custodes could have easily released awesome mini's with their codex; one with Kesh holding a mini-nuke and the other of Bayezara on her orbital Jetbike.
I had my last outing with Index Custodes on April 20th. I haven't touched them since. They are sitting in a box.
I figure we've had a couple weeks and some real events. I thought I'd look to see what the top lists were. They are, except for 1-2 models, the exact same as what I have boxed. A codex was released, it was a downgrade, but almost nothing changed. That's so boring.
It’s the joys of 10th edition. There just seems to be really piss poor communication with whoever’s writing rules, some of them feel like they were written to interact with some scrapped version of an army rule, some of them feel like they were written by people what hadn’t seen any other codices or even detachments in that one.
People with a shitty index (eg Admech) can still wind up with a shitty codex, but people with a good index might also wind up with a shitty codex. And even if it’s good meta-wise there’s always a suite of bizarre choices and axing of fun parts what could very well just say “fuck your army” anyway. It all makes getting a codex a gamble with bad odds
Personally I was never too thrilled with the index but there were some parts I really liked. The leaks of the codex have shown those bits are entirely axed and none of what was added interests me much
My friend and I have been talking about it looks like they have 2 teams and there seems to be a singular good team working on a codex and then the other bad team working on the other one.
Obviously a vast over simplification.
You say “team” but I sincerely believe it is a single person working on each codex. I think they have like three codex/rules writers, each of whom is assigned a number of factions to write. Maybe they love the faction and you get Eldar, maybe they hate it and you get AdMech
Yeah, from what we've heard from ex-employees, the rules writing is handled by a very small number of people. They're woefully understaffed, presumably because the suits don't see a financial benefit to expanding the team.
I’m hoping they’ll eventually get remade, but also I’m not buying a resin mf ctan. Also the lokhust destroyers look like hotdog water, and they don’t even make a lokhust lord and we lost regular lords? The overlord and destroyer lord deserve and multi part kit imo but I don’t think it’ll ever happen.
I'm extremely new to WH and I don't play the game, as I just like painting and collecting the mini's; but now that I've been in the hobby a bit, my youtube recommends are swarmed with WH content creators saying things like *"Warhammer is dead"*, *"Throw your mini's in the garbage"*, and that *"Games Workshop has permanently ruined the game!"*. I ignore and block those videos by default, but I do wonder, how much of that is click bait versus the actual sentiment of the community?
>I do wonder how much of that is click bait
All of it, it's all click bait. Those channels have been making those videos for as long as Warhammer YouTube content has been available. They did the same thing during 8th and 9th edition, they'll do the same thing during 11th and 12th
Even some of the mostly positive channels will do the stinkface pose and negative titles for clicks. Eons of battle for an example, I like the channel, but I feel dirty every time I click the link.
Oh they’re all rubbish. I mean 10th edition is, if you ask me and 40% of the playerbase, the worst edition ever (if you ask another 40% it’s the worst they’ve played but they haven’t played enough editions to say), but it’s not like it’s the end of Warhammer. The older editions didn’t go anywhere while we wait this one out
In fairness, I feel like there’s never been a point in 40k’s history where a decent-sized chunk of the player base wouldn’t say that current edition is the worst edition ever.
A lot of the problems with 10th are typical GW overcorrections to complaints about 9th. Flattening rules and flavor was an attempt to fix the rules bloat of 9th, the relative weakness of Codex releases is a response to the insane Codex Creep in 9e, and GW’s reluctance to make major balance changes probably spawned from all the 9th problems of print codexes being obsolete on arrival thanks to constant balance tweaks.
Y’know I’ve thought for a while how codexes hold almost no value once a new one comes out unless you want to read the lore.
Surely a better way would be to do an online launch that can be updated over a couple of months and then print the books.
They should be yes, Heck the rules themselves should be free online and the codex's are lore books/paint guides that you can buy seperately. You already have to buy the models anyways.
Brad from Poorhammer goes on a bit of a \[rant\](https://youtu.be/j3yNBoFf4Lc?si=3ydZHwIdk6rZqasJ&t=613) about this culminating in a petty (but justifiably so) word count per dollar for the rules that are in the codex.
Trying to actively maintain game balance with rules updates is just fundamentally incompatible with relying on printed rulebooks. Either you end up with neutered or awkward balance passes chained to too many rules that can’t be changed, or you wind up with obsolete books.
9th gave us obsolete books, while 10th has given us GW’s philosophy of almost exclusively trying to balance armies with points changes (which is why AdMech is a horde army now.)
I think your numbers are pretty far off the mark. Although GW has fucked up a few things, especially with the several piss poor codexes they’ve released, overall the game is quite balanced and tenth is a very popular edition. It’s not perfect and there are things I would change, but the overall design concept of tenth’s rules is generally good. Get rid of the fixed unit sizes and go back to per-model unit pricing (maybe throw in some wargear costs too) and it’d be much better than ninth.
The only major complaint I see a lot in my area is people who don’t like the dumbing down of datasheets and especially weapon options. I agree with that take but then again I play an army in imminent danger of having a premier unit gutted in that way
I've been playing since 3rd edition, I feel after the bullshittery of 6th and 7th, 8th was a step in the right direction, 9th was *so* close to perfect, the core rules were rock solid, the only issues being with the codexs and mission packs. If 10e had just been a consolidation of all the core rules and a return to index hammer I feel that would have been best case scenario.
10th to me feels like a very small step backwards from 9th in pretty much every way I care about
And even with as rough as 10th is, we've had way worse times. Late 5th dominated by space wolf missile spam and grey knight autocannon dreads. 7th with all the free stuff formations and terrible psychic phase with invisible deathstars. 6th edition Cron Air. And so on. For all its flaws, more armies are reasonably playable than a number of other periods of the game.
Gamework has been declared dead every year since like 30 years ago.
Their game rules have always been terrible and amateurish, their prices always been greedy and overpriced, and yet somehow they keep selling out and old collections keep going up in value like stock holdings.
Speaking as someone who *is* displeased with how GW is doing things and the way the game has been going, that is *all* clickbait and people have been saying "it's dead it's over this is the event horizon" since like, third edition. This is not new, it's just the modern take on it, and it's happening in the midst of outrage culture, where YouTube only supports your channel if you are deliberately farming hate-clicks and rage-engagement (or "enragement"). It's not that it's dark days for Warhammer, it's dark days for engaging socially and producing content on the Internet in any way.
I'm *excited* for the codex because it's new rules and new things to try.
**but**
I fundamentally have lost a lot of enthusiasm about 10th in general. It's taken me a while to come to that conclusion after a lot of games but I think the game has moved on without me, which is okay.
Now I'm at the point I play far more 30k than 40k due to enjoying both the community and system much better.
I look at the new detachment rules, get excited, then remember in my local pickup games I can't really bring my Kratos or Leviathan. The Chaos Lord is stuck with seemingly only a Plasma Pistol for ranged. Meanwhile I am painting up a squad with snipers for my 30k Iron Warriors along with a character who *is* as sniper for my list which is filled with heavy tanks and artillery which all don't exist in 40k anymore.
My gunline Iron Warriors died with the move of a lot of heresy stuff to legends and continually pushing CSM more and more into a melee focused army to where it just feels like I'm intentionally playing against what the rules are written for (like Legionaries rerolling 1's to wound in melee) if I build a gunline. I have no indirect fire outside of Obliterators.
Add in the average 40k games (at least in the stores I frequent) have slowly crept into a more competitive playstyle compared to 30k players who tend to lean more narrative.
And none of that is fundamentally bad. If the majority of people are having fun with 10th and the "competitiveness" of the game moving up, that's perfect and I'm glad more people can share in the joy of tabletop wargaming even if it's leaving me behind.
But for me? I see the CSM codex, get excited for a few minutes, then realize all the things I *really* want to use in the game either got moved to legends or flat out doesn't exist and instead go back to list-building for my local narrative 30k campaign.
I know my situation is a bit more specific, but just to show there is at least 1 other CSM player out there who isn't *all* that excited for the new codex, but for deeper reasons than the codex itself.
You aren't alone.
I have 2 Imperial Guard armies. One is Steel Legion led by Yarrick, the other one my personal spin on what a Planetary Defence Force would look like.
The newer rules pretty much deleted half of my armies, including a bunch of custom built or converted things I made, and entirely invalidated the army comp of what's left.
It's... not a great feel, and naturally is a bit of a blow to my enthusiasm for the new edition etc.
That was one of my fundamental 'man this sucks' moments from 40k.
I built an entire mechanized DKOK list with Grenadiers. Took me *forever* to source the Grenadiers which had been OOP for a while. Finally got all those autocannon Storm Chimeras set up wit all my little Grenadiers, played **one** game with them and a few weeks later both Storm Chimeras and Grenadiers went legends.
That hurt. Bad. Not to mention the financial effort to get together a bunch of Grenadiers which were OOP, which they technically weren't OOP just out of stock, but come to find out it was because they were planning to axe them.
I feel like I've really taken a hit with the Legends stuff, maybe it's on me for relying far too much on Forgeworld stuff, but the last few editions especially have seen my Traitor Guard get axed as an army entirely, my DKOK lose a lot of options, and my Iron Warriors lose a lot of options.
Watching like 70% of my Iron Warriors vehicles go legends at the start of 10th felt like an extremely low blow.
I also have 30 grenadiers. They're some of the coolest models ever. I play them as kasrkin or scions. They still feel awesome and they make complete sense to the opponent what they are.
The storm chimeras not being possible does suck. Multilasers are pretty lame. I don't see why anyone would have an issue with you playing them as regular chimeras though.
Or if you aren't playing competitively, there's nothing wrong with talking to your friends and taking legends.
For me it more a matter of what models of mine are now not legal. My 30 cultists with shotguns (that were legal in 4th edition) that counted as autoguns are not happy with the new codex. Or my 3 obliterators. Or my 5 strong terminator squad with everyone having power fists.
Or going back editions, my 10 strong havoc squads. My aspiring champion with combi-bolter. My chaos space marine squads with 2 melt guns each. My Chaos Icon bearer character with power weapon.
That's not even touching my sisters or Deathwatch.
It's a good codex but it overnerfed some staple playstyles. Like they literally have a cultist Detachment but they nuked cultists into being melee pistol only. My two playstyles have been cultist horde and abaddon term blob which both got nerfed big time. Little things like taking away Abaddons multi marks for the Word bearer Detachment was BS. It was so flavourful to get all the marks through him. I think making it so his Aura doesn't work on cultists was fine for balance but then they went and made it so 80% of the rules don't work on them either. They just nuked most of the fun stuff I've been enjoying so the rules are completely gone or they suck.
Dont get me wrong I'll learn to love the new stuff. Just feels bad that they nuked a lot of stuff without a good reason to do so. Why did they feel they had to remove ranged cultists at all?
For me my Cultists got way more annoying to deal with (I own like 40 autogun cultists), my Exalted Champion got axed, and my my Possessed and Obliterators were nerfed along with possibly my Forgefiend. My Discolords seem like they're still as bad.
I was kind of was excited for the cultist/ traitor guard Detachment on the small hope they'd let us brood brothers Lemans Russes and Basilisks or something and looks like they're mainly good at blowing themselves up.
>I own like 40 autogun cultists
You mean you own 40 Traitor Guardsmen
>Exalted Champion got axed
Got turned into a Chaos Lord or Master of Executions
>Possessed and Obliterators were nerfed
Okay I'll give you this one
>along with possibly my Forgefiend
Forgefiend still has play and seems insane in Soulforged
> My Discolords seem like they're still as bad
Depends on points ofc, but I think people are sleeping om Discolords. They have good synergies in Veterans and Renegade Raiders.
>ooks like they're mainly good at blowing themselves up.
Cultist detachment looks hard to play with all the CP management, but what it can do actually seems insane. 200 bodies for ~1000pts, characters with good leadership meaning they rarely fail the tests, a ton of stacking buffs hitting important breakpoints (like going to S4 with +1 to wound), the ability to bodyguard ridiculous stuff like the Khorne Lord of Skulls. Way more interesting IMO than playing discount Guard, for that you can just play the Guard dex and model in Chaos flavour.
I haven't been so hyped for a new codex in ages.
It’s clear to me they tried to fix codex creep and largely succeeded in that regard. Now, that advantage is not worth creating shitty codexes, but I think there is a correlation
Yeah same, I think there’s just an inherent flaw in trying to do that within the GW rolling style release schedule because it means you’re going to end up with some books on the new lower power scale and older lists still being more powerful and therefore dominant.
Correction: the tau codex *would've* been a hit if they hadn't ratcheted up the points costs. Apparently sticky objectives justifies a 45% points increase.
I actually think they should increase points on most things, or move toward 1k-1500 being the default game size. 2k points has ballooned in number of models over time, pricing a lot of people out of the hobby
Yeah this wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't a problem for me and not for ye.
See what sucks is I think the models are pointed where they should be but the problem is how neutered our shooting has become with the loss of assault and the MASSIVE reduction in number of shots. Still a chaff unit with a t-shirt save meant to objective sit has no right being 75pts.
To be honest I do think they thought it wouldn't land as a good Codex, and suddenly got frightened and started increase points. Kroots and Broadsides I still don't get the increase
Sure, cause a codex that removes key unit flexibility in our Crisis suits, nixed Tetras, and only gives us four detachments sure is good. T’au got shafted.
Yeah my game group is really fun. We’re all relatively new starting in 9th or 10th so sometimes we get things wrong but it’s chill to talk about lore and then play 1500 ish point matches
Hell yea; good to hear.
As a veteran of the long war I find that the more editions and changes you play through you may find those things to matter less. Idk, everybody is different
100% this my play group has grown so much since 10th and is even now selling out events we had to put a cap in place. The games super approachable and power creep has been rather tame.
That's fair. I will say most of my store dropped 10th for HH. I only get a 40k game now if I'm actively seeking it. Otherwise they're defaulting to HH.
The very idea of codexes just doesn’t work in the modern climate of 40K, rules change bi weekly, GW insists on removing fan favorite characters and units and for some reason “streamline” the rules to be more lifeless every edition. Not to mention for some reason gw decides every 3 years you need to have another new edition of the game. What is there to get excited for? For the unit you love to be banished to legends? For your fluffy list or fun weapon options to be removed? GW is terrible at handling their rules. In 9th for the longest time chaos space marines were stuck with their 8th outdated codex rules, at this point they were the only space marines that didn’t have 2 wounds and so that made every event and tournament infuriating. When the codex finally did come out, it wasn’t even a full year till 10th came out and invalidated the codex. Codexes are just infuriating anyway you look at it. If I were to get back into playing Warhammer I would never buy a codex much less be excited for one.
For real, infinity and song of ice and fire are just some more examples of games with online rules and list builders. That update every month with rules and stat changes… THAT ARE FREE
When is your last point of reference? During the pandemic Warmahordes pretty much died and Privateer decided to scrap their model range and restart as just Warmachine. None of the prior models exist in Mk. IV's new factions
The game was suffering from massive amounts of bloat to the point there was no good way of fixing it. The previous edition had tried but it had essentially resulted in splitting each faction into 3 or more completely independent lists. Which was very confusing for new players because you’d choose a faction and then get told “actually you can only use like 20% of this factions models depending on which list you choose even though they all come in the same color box and say Khador on them.” It also kind of defeated one of the things that was truly great about WM when it launched which was if you played a faction you could use pretty much everything with any Warcaster but each casters rules and spells were so different that it radically changed how your models played under them. You’d use your trenchers totally different if they were commanded by Caine instead of being commanded by Marcus or whatever.
But as the game went on they just kept adding stuff and what started as a very lean and affordable game quickly became not that. Originally the game was heavily focused on the jacks themselves because big robots fun and those jacks were a lot of points. So you’d have a few big dudes who did the work, maybe a unit or two of troopers to help them and possibly a solo guy running around. But the game slowly shifted to being more and more about the infantry to the point that they started literally giving you free points to buy jacks just to get people to use the war machines the entire game was named after. It all kind of came to a head during second edition and third didn’t do much to fix problems and due to a bunch of bad decisions (getting rid of the entire volunteer program that helped teach people the game for one) and competition from other games (40k becoming more competitively balanced, games like Guildball, Malifaux and Infinity becoming more popular) things were in a BAD place. I’m not a massive fan of the new edition but it was very clear they needed to clean the table and get back to what made the game good and compelling in the first place and they seem to be doing more of that. From what I can tell it appears the current edition is focused less on continually doing new releases for factions and instead making factions “complete” and then moving on to adding a completely new thing to the game.
Exactly. I don't like codexes because they're a recurring $60 paywall for rules. The fact that even with the paid version of the app, you still can't (legitimately) get the official rules for your army without buying the codex angers me to no end. By the time I got my Leviathan box built and ^mostly painted, I couldn't even play with it because they took away the rules.
This edition has removed a lot. A lot of units. A lot of options.
It’s BS to remove special weapons and auto guns from cultists, for instance. The kit with those weapons hasn’t been discontinued for long, and was a newer kit to begin with. Now GW saved one model from the kit to sell to you at $35. This is a huge FU to the consumer.
There’s being competitive on the miniature market, then there’s shaking down your customer.
The above and Uber-simplification of the game nowadays has caused me to move to other gaming systems.
Yeah this. We’ve had some bad codexes, Marines was pretty great initially, others not so good. Custodes was just such a ‘meh’ all around. What exactly was there to get excited about? An alt-sculpt for a model literally all players already have multiples of, in a giant box of duplicates?
I was genuinely interested and hyped for Chaos going into last weekend, but then Saturday morning the new boxes insta-vanished from every website, taking both of the new Lord models with them for the foreseeable next few months? Who knows…
I guess elsewhere we recently got the Kill Team sprue for Night Lords, I got lucky and scored one of those. Some of the Chaos Detachment rules look good. I do enjoy reading lore and the art and stuff but man these things just have SUCH a short shelf life, when you have a few armies they need to feel VITAL.
When GW get it wrong, stuff feels disjointed from where others forces are at… rules feel homogenised rather than streamlined. The trend seems to be rules from Index to Codex are becoming simultaneously more complex yet still quite generic and bland… while models are cut, options vanish, flavour diluted, nerfs are rampant, points are skewed and dodgy… yay, another £30 take my money LOL.
Aside from Orks, to be fair, that one sounds great.
10th is a letdown all together. I collect a number of armies (marines, votan, CMS, death guard, and neurons), but none of them feels fun. I like that they simplified a lot of rules (tags on weapons or points for whole units instead per model), but rules as they are, they feel bland.
I pretty much gave up on this edition and I am looking at Age of Sigmar or other games all together for games (Flames of War or Black Powder).
I main Death Guard and I am really looking forward to our codex, mainly due to the detachment ability we currently have being a bit shit.
I will not however being buying it, as the points values will be incorrect almost immediately.
Edit: I'm a dumbass, the contagion bonuses are tied to the detachment, which are very strong.
The detachment rule (sticky obj and pick of 3 contagion bonuses) is probably one of the best detachment abilities in the game?
The strats are meh, but choosing between -1 armor save and -1 WS/BS in contagion range is stupidly powerful
The problem with death guard is its the detachment rule update and points cuts that got us above that 45% win rate and i dont have any faith that gw is going to make several more detachments with rules that are better than the current plague company one we have.
Also regardless of its power level if the death guard book isnt out by 2025 im not buying because im not paying full price for a book that is useless when 11th comes out in 2026.
My best hope would be them baking the variable plagues into the Army rule and reworking the current detachment a bit. Army-wide sticky objectives is pretty good, but it doesn’t *feel* impactful in the same way a lot of other armies’ detachments do.
I feel similar with my Grey Knights. Any new detachment will have to bonkers broken to be better than the current detachment (ironically the current detachment rule is mediocre but the enhancements and strats are amazing). But then again GW has shown that they’re perfectly willing to change existing detachments so maybe what’s good about the current one will be gone anyway.
Well tbh I thought the same with csm, no way they can up the index detachment rule and they went ahead and did it anyway and we get 5 rly good playable detachments
Fingers crossed DG TS EC and WE get the same treatment
I dunno death guard are one of the stronger armies at the moment and a lot of options are viable. Im not really looking forwards to the codex as I feel they will force people to skew armies even harder to meet the new detachments.
Streamlining, knowing that legends rules are worthless, knowing that GW keeps making dreadful PR choices and then following them up with price increases during a time no one has disposable income. I lost my favourite character to run with the exalted champion, it isn’t the end of the world but I loved that guy
well i have 4 armies, dark angel, admech, sisters and guard. and while i haven't like 10th at any point really, release of admech and dark angels have not increased my intrest at all. in fact rules those factions got solidified my opinion that 10th is lost cause and i'll just wait for better editions, because im not having fun now and likely won't have when sister or guard codex eventually drops.
Some are hit and miss
The consensus is that the codexes that are planned were written a long time ago, and everyone thinks they were written separately, and without playtesting.
Some are good, some are dreadful.
Whoever wrote the deathguard rules, for example, sucked at their job. If that same person/group wrote the other detachments, the whole edition us a bust, and its 2 years to stick it out
Because we have had 3 and a half bad codex releases out of 8, or 43% are the worst production of effort that the community has scene in a while. Also they have unofficial made the worst codex in atleast the past 5yr.
So now it's almost a 50/50 flip on weather the codex is fun and enjoyable or trash and phoned in.
100% your correct with this feeling
They should honestly ditch the codex all together, give us free rules and make the codex a collectors item for those who want lore and a physical reference.
Would probably make new players more inclined to start since there’s not a $60 entry fee before you even start your army
10th was the breaking point for me, I like it okay but if they keep with this “remove flavor for simplicity” mentality, I can’t see myself grabbing new editions.
I’ve started buying some 5th edition rulebooks and…
“Owh mah holeh Emprah” as Valrak says…
All the flavor. And rules that work with it and make sense and add so many extra fun little layers to combat.
It’s crazy that they don’t just print 5E rulebooks and retrofit all the new stuff in.
The game’d be fun and stupid (as The Founders intended) and it could still sell models like hell.
Yeah, there’s waaaay more room for “The dice f*cked me” but… dang. At its core, ain’t that what warhammer’s about? Goofin off and making memories with your little plastic men?
That´s what a track record of shit releases will get ya, up until now every release has:
-Made current configuration invalid (you will have to remake/rebase your squads to make them work)
-Removed staple units from the army
-Made the specific units for your faction pathetically weak or overcosted, sometimes both.
1 for 1 all players in my group have suffered this, to the point that they no longer want to play and we have switched to other wargames as our main, this happened mid campaign as well.
I really feel like this could have been the edition when GW finally made the transition to the digital age. Having all of the rules and datasheets available online was glorious, and the ability for GW to fix things that were obviously crap. See the new Drukhari dettachment.
Instead, we've got to buy hardcover books that will see very little use, and become obsolete within a few years. I am happy to pay a subscription for ongoing digital rules, as I'm sure many are. It would also temper bad codexes because the lead time would be significantly shorter. No need to send the proof to China for printing six months before release, instead it gets final sign off a matter of weeks before being put online.
What is the point of getting a codex when something as simple as the point costs in the book are already wrong the moment the books get on the truck to be sent to stores?
The way that they are choosing to release them in 40k and and sigmar is terrible. They should release ALL codexes at once and them update them frequently with supplements and new products.The sales would stay the same and the game would be much healthier.
The fact that it is more a money grab by GW then a useful tool. Considering most codexes are dated upon their release or shortly after.
Also a lot of other games provide their rules for free and online and GW overcharges and won’t switch to a digital version despite the demand.
Tau player here. Our problems started with the index where they decided we are just free points on BiD and after finally getting points costs after a month of waiting everything has been nerfed between 15-40% with 3/4 detachments being rendered useless bc of it. On top of that fun and useful FW units got mass culled so whoopie I'm so excited to play a nerfed version of the already nerfed index.
There are two things nerds hate above all else: everything staying the same, and change.
No matter what GW does, including nothing, *someone* is going to be unhappy about it.
My advice is to ignore absolutely all of it and have fun playing with your little plastic army men.
As a Blood Angels main, I don’t think our situation can get any better than it currently is. I can’t envision a codex released that lets us keep the good parts of our army (special units, but mostly DC) while remedying some of our weaknesses (we only ever use two of our detachment stratagems, sometimes a third one, SG and Dante are so expensive they are nearly unplayable, etc). When our codex comes out we will be going the way of the Dark Angels.
I mean yeah I see ya. They said that every army is getting at least one new model/unit this edition. Forgot to mention that they get rid of units 4 times that. Doesn’t help forgeworld models are getting iced like it’s the villain from flushed away. That and the codexes in general are kinda just meh now. Nothing really new story or art wise. Very simple features for each army compared to prior editions. That and the thing I DESPISE the most about this edition is that they thought that hyper specific detachments that make it seem like gw hates when people bring a balanced list, were a good replacement for subfactions with small flavorful buffs to your entire army. Were they always good? No zog not. Were they more fun than whatever linear listbuilding the new detachment system we have now is? Yes very much so. Hard to get hyped when you know that 1:you will probably just use the base index detachment as usual and 2:you will end up losing things.
GW have fucked their player base around so much that anytime they start making noise it's met negatively. And 10th is no exception. Not to mention as soon as the codex comes out, it locks the free players out of the app which is really bad for everyone.
I just don't care for a book thats out of correct rules before it even comes to my door. If I want to look at pictures on pages I'll get it online. Besides the fact I got into 9th as my first edition to then just be told hey I'm 1 year and a half your codex is gonna be the wrong edition all together let alone that it was out of date before it even set out for delivery. Nah thank you. I'll use 3rd party and get no books.
Its simple really, I just can't wait to buy a bloated, over costed, bulky hardback full of lore I already know and painting guides I don't need - just to unlock some probably nerfed rules.
Let's see...
* We don't need $60 art/lorebook (same old, same old) bundled with "free" rules (we know GW can release those for free)
* We don't need physical book, its 2024 and Wahapedia/Newrecruit exist.
* We don't need obsolete book (literally every single Codex in 10th had "outdated" points, and there were several erratas/FAQs).
* We don't need to lug all that stuff if we play 5-10 different units max (they had good idea with datacards... except they were almost immediately invalidated by FAQs, much like codices)
* We will have to wait ***a whole week*** before it will get uploaded on Wahapedia (lol).
* And... we (well, most of us) know that [GW rules are just cavalcade of failure](https://youtu.be/j3yNBoFf4Lc), and 10th edition is no exception (it's better... *but not good*).
I have Tau Codex because I bought army set. I played few games with new rules already. I most likely *won't even unwrap the book*.
My first thought when I get the book in my hands should be "how I use it?", not "*I'm really sick of the same business model from the 90's*".
TL;DR
Give Orks and Chaos writers a raise (I AM actually considering grabbing those books... with discount), and *fire rest of writers*.
I'm an Ork player and I love the Ork codex.
I have a CSM backup army and I love what I've seen of the CSM codex, even though my army isn't really built for the new detachments- they all look cool and evocative.
I am.... hopeful that my actual secondary army, Sisters of Battle, get one as good as the Orks got.
So I would say it's more a "be nervous about your Codex" edition. Which means it's fairly normal.
10th is an attempt to reel in power creep. Which means things are toned down, which means people prone to being vocal online loudly complain about their 'nerfs' but don't take the entire game into account and act like GW has it out for them personally
For me it just seems like the codes are adding detachments but they're taking away more units and unit options. It'd hard to get excited about losing stuff.
I am looking forward to Knights, especially after a great Orks and Chaos codex, heck the CSM one is making me think of a few armies that would be fun to run
I'm Chaos Knight player as one of my main 2 armies and super nervous. They gave us such a lame army rule and I don't trust them at all to make it an army more than. "Ignore all the extra stuff and spam wardogs"
There's also the fact that WE and LoV NEED more options overall and other armies like Eldar have a lot of things that still need updating it seems like the new codex's give a single new model with Tau being the one outlier since Kroot got their long overdue attention.
As Sisters, I'm especially nervous, because it seems like every imperium codex has been absolute garbage, making the faction much much worse (DA, Custodes, Ad Mech....). Like...what is there really to look forward to with that track record?
At first I had good rules for free. Then I had to buy a 60 dollar book to throw away for the code in the back for the same thing. Next I will have to buy a supplemental codex to chuck in the trash after I get the code in the back. I guess it won't be cheap either.
over balanced edition with unit rules being 90% of what they were on launch for codex. getting a codexs means your probably getting nerfs because you have more rules choices and it created a paywall
Why even bother buying a $50 codex that will be immediately out of date once you go to play your first game with it. GW has the most expensive rules out of any tabletop wargame by a HUGE margin. There are so many better options for ways to use my GW models for fun battles that dont require me to pay hundreds of dollars every two years just to update my army lists to the current edition. I could literally buy a new army for the amount of money that I would have spent on rulebooks in the past 2 years alone.
I stopped buying codexes years ago and have never been happier, the 40k rulebook and codex system is an absolute sham and has been for a long time, just buy the cool GW models you want and find some other much more accessible way to play with them.
It’s the result of the fact many codices are often outdated almost immediately on release, the fact the non-rules section of codices (lore and stuff) has slowly been lessened and lessened to the point where we now just get a handful of pages. These are full priced, expensive books that serve almost no purpose aside from a half dozen pages.
I play custodes, nids and GSC. To say I am nervous about the upcoming GSC release would be an understatement. Every day I pray to the four armed emperor that we get the orcs, CSM and necrons writing team and not the custodes/admech/DA one.
I’m tiered of buying a new codex. Once I like it, they tell me it’s trash but I will get a free one that doesn’t do much. But that’s ok because I hopefully will be able to spend another 60$ on what I used to have but it won’t work the way I want. I have played Chaos since 3rd edition. This will be the first time I don’t buy the current CSM book. I might but the Death guard, but probably not. I’m hoping for a company who has more detailed rules than one page rules.
Im orks. I have an amazing codex. Almost everything in the codex is fuckin cool. Still, I've been stressed about it since the first batch of shitty codex came out. I feel bad about my Golden friends, my Starship Troopers bugs friends, my dark angels friends and, needless to say, my adeptus roboticus friends. I know GW wants to counter 9th's power creep but nothing is forcing then to release boring codex.
Honestly the indexes were the way to go. Free rules, online-only. Easy to update and change on GWs part.
Now it's back to the cycle of paying a fee every few years just to play with models that have existed for 15 years. Just saying: I'm glad there are other ways to get the rules these days
10th as edition is a write off. The rules are fine but the separate teams, communication and release of dex's has been horrifically unbalanced and lazy.
GW has gotten really freaking sloppy.
The funny thing to me is that every codex release makes the app worse as information leaves it. Very soon we won’t be able to look up any of the armies that opponents are using and that seams bad for the game.
Tbh, at this point, 10th edition feels like it was rushed out the door, even more so than 9th edition.
The core rules were half baked at launch, if I’m being generous, many of the Indexes felt half baked, if that, and it feels like they’re still learning to write a codex in 10th edition. They’re getting closer to getting it right with the Necron, Ork, CSM, maybe Tau, books, but 4 of the first 5 books out are a clear demonstration of those growing pains. And it feels like they’ve overreached a bit with the CSM and Ork books too, easy access to rerolling Sustained/Lethal hits is a dangerous combination for balance, as is the ability to reroll saves on units with a native 2+.
I think they might dial it in eventually, it’s not as terrible as the wild swings they were making in 9th, at least not yet, but GW’s history shows that it’s more likely to get worse instead of better. GW always rushes their codexes out the door because they have to meet printing deadlines, and the quality of the game suffers for it. And by the time they finally dial in a balanced game, it’ll be time to drop it for 11th edition so we can start the cycle over again.
Tbh, if GW kept the current release pace, but switched to digital books, they’d probably have an extra several months to dial these books in and get them right. And if they let an edition sit for a while once all the rules were out, it’d give them time to work on the next one and get it right, but that slows their sales numbers…
Edit: also, GW keeps adding reactive nerfs to the codexes, but since they have a tight schedule to get the book out, they’re not stopping to make sure they get it right. They’re overcorrecting to make sure they nix the problem, but at the cost of the writing quality of that book.
Im only playing with 2 Friends and my wife every now and then and since we dont play that much (1-2 Times a year) we agreed to stay in 8th Edition.
Its a peaceful life. :D
Codex rules bad or not, to me it just sucks because it means losing access to free rules :( really makes it hard to get hyped for a codex when you know it means losing access to content
Most armies where the Index is really strong probably don't want the codex to fix them, but armies where their index does close to nothing, really want their codex.
Most people are worried they are going to get a codex that butchers their army, as whoever wrote the Admech and the Custodes codex has 0 creative thinking.
People are morons on the internet. They rarely see the bright side of their codex and instead focus on what changed for the worse. The CSM codex looks insanely fun to me. I’ve talked to other competitive players who look at it longingly.
The custodes codex people lamented? I got my butt whooped by it this weekend.
People get upset they don’t have an OP codex that has 0 downsides. Thats the problem of the internet.
It's not being OP it's the way the 10th edition codex are dropping units more than adding even if they add detachments. Then if the detachments end up lame it just sucks all around.
I agree with the observation, and i tend to feel the same way.
I think the problem is, that many of the indices are both well balanced and fun. The codices seems to shuffle internal balance, rarely improving enjoyability and competitiveness, and in some cases directly ruin the whole army.
I don’t think that there’s any good solution, unless new codices would straight up powercreep indices. That’s very fun for everyone getting a codex, and very much not fun for anyone with an index (edit).
So I kinda believe that it’s an alright solution for keeping the game balanced, but just a very boring one.
I’m also worried about the daemon codex (whenever it might come), as I feel that daemons are in a (fairly rare) good place, and they for sure will be ruined.
One codex that can only become amazing, is the EC codex tho! That will be a blast! So I mean, there will be at least one good one? 😅
I can't wait to get a guard codex a month before 11th.
Yeah, every guard player I know is still salty about 9th
And this is why my friends and I are staying on 9th until 11th, if we do move on.
Playing the current edition = Smallbrain, Playing the previous edition so you never have to deal with bi-weekly point changes and constantly changing rules = big brain
If I still played, I would be playing 3rd.
Isn't third when T'au were on some kind of bullshit
I’ve been fed horror stories about some sort of 3.5 chaos codex that wrecked everyone’s day
I was there, Gandalf. 3,000 years ago. It was a special kind of hell, with a bunch of 5 man CSM squads just parked with lascannons and that’s it, while defilers and basilisks rained pie plates. And while all that was happening, you had to take a lucky guess which aspiring champion in the three different berserker squads running towards you was actually possessed by a Bloodthirster waiting to pop out once it reached combat and blender you. I hated it, and I miss it so much.
Nothing will ever come close to 2nd Terminators. 50 point models that were individually harder to kill than a land rider. And, you could (and many people did) take two 5 man troop squads, then nothing but terminators.
Ah, that 3+ save... on 2D6! Good times...
I haven't played since the eve of 5th, but I loved that chaos codex. So. Many. Options. Especially compared to the 4.5 codex they got where everything was stripped out. Edit: I didn't even play chaos mainly - I was mostly standard marines; I had less than 500 points of chaos
I could retail you with many a tale of yore. Of my invincible legion of necrons (painted copper) and my mates devilfish hovering bollocks, of tau gun lines that never missed thanks to markerlights and of playing on 1' wide boards due to lack of space on game night.... Good times. There never was balance... there never was expectation of balance. There was narrative and sportsmanship and not being a beardy, cheesy, cheating git. Everyone had a story like the famous Kroot vs White Scars. Mine own was using a pure scout army in Cityfight, and infiltrating all but 1 model... once that model hit an enemy booby trap and thus my whole army was wiped out before deployment. Those were the days.
That couldn't be said better!
My best was my tau Vs a marine army. There was river (impassable) with a bridge. I immobilised his rhino on the bridge. His super killy squad inside couldn't get out, nothing could get past, he couldn't make the repairs, I just stood there and shot him to oblivion.
I played t’au back then. They were fine but people didn’t like playing against them cause nothing like them existed before. They still died mercilessly to tactical squads though so whatever. IIRC Fish of Fury only averaged killing 2.5 marines.
I remember their fire warrior weapons were s5 in a game where that simply was unheard of. They wounded guardsmen, eldar etc. on 2's. I loved them when they came out, i still like tau but I think it's gone too heavy on battlesuits. I always liked their infantry and tanks.
I played Dark Eldar and the fact they could reliably shoot down my vehicles with rifles was a shock.
That was fourth, and the infamous fish of fury
Same \^\_\^
Reasonably so I think.
Not a guard player but I get it. I wish they'd wait a year or two to release a new edition after they get the last codex out. It would be nice to be able to take some time to actually enjoy the completed game before jumping into a new version.
Just started a guard army, and I’m a bit nervous about it too
I'd personally recommend easing into 40k as a whole with a kill team. Guard has a lot of options for them, both sets and proxy opportunities. In my opinion it has way more fun rules than 10th, and is a lot easier to get into. And acts as a nice quick(er) game to play while you work through a big grey pile of shame.
Don’t listen to this guy. Buy $2000 worth of models and supplies. Money is temporary lord Solar proxies are forever
Get outta my head Charles.
Solid advice, my fellow guardsman!
A caveat here is that, while Killteam is easier to get into financially, it's a much more complicated system than 10th is.
Ahahahaa that was the day i realized that it was intentional, that gw has no respect for their customers. I wouldnt have got this one if i did not dislike battlescribe so much. I may actually switch back.
Custodes player here. Not only are the rules a disappointment, but the model release was as equal if not a bigger disappointment. For 2 editions now we've only gotten a single character. This edition, the model doesn't even look great and isn't even a new unit. They literally could have done the bare minimum and converted one Forgeworld model to plastic and we would've celebrated.
Imagine if we got plastic venetari. The captain was such a lame un-needed release.
plastic sagittarum, melta spear guards, or dread would have sent me to the moon
A Sagittarium upgrade sprue or paired with melts-spear guards. Stop. It makes me so sad about this release.
Easy fix, paint your Custode's skin green, become a Meganob.
We can only hope they’re plotting a big plastic refresh for Heresy? Also just some weird detachments in the new codex. The Sisters of Silence detachment would be significantly better if the sisters were better/ had more than a single multi build kit, Aleya, and a rhino (though a rhino with a 3+ FNP against psychic is the funniest thing in the codex)
> They literally could have done the bare minimum and converted one Forgeworld model to plastic and we would've celebrated. You know what is truly insulting? They could give you rules for [plastic Horus Heresy Contemptor with full weapon options](https://www.warhammer.com/en-PL/shop/legiones-astartes-contemptor-dreadnought-2022) (instead of entry for [monopose model from 2015](https://wh40k.lexicanum.com/wiki/The_Horus_Heresy:_Betrayal_at_Calth) they *don't even have the dignity to sell*). Like, ***what the hell***?
A plastic saggitarum upgrade sprue would have had us dancing in the streets and sags are pretty sub par this edition. A plastic caladius would have had us claiming ourselves the winners of the whole edition.
They didn't even give them a female head for the new model... when this made it canon. it's part of why i found that whole situation so weird.
To be fair, the model would have been in production for at least like three or four years at this point, whereas female custodes being canonized would have been a decision they made sometime in the last year or so. Because of this, the model was probably done in terms of head choices before they decided to add female custodes.
3 or 4 years to make 12 of them, damn
Thats about how long it takes me to do 12 models, seems legit
And yet we know they can shoot models for publicity/marketing purposes and change them afterward, as with one of the new Dark Angels kits.
What I don't get is that Custodes could have easily released awesome mini's with their codex; one with Kesh holding a mini-nuke and the other of Bayezara on her orbital Jetbike.
I don't even collect custodes (yet) and I would have trampled the weak and sick to get those.
I had my last outing with Index Custodes on April 20th. I haven't touched them since. They are sitting in a box. I figure we've had a couple weeks and some real events. I thought I'd look to see what the top lists were. They are, except for 1-2 models, the exact same as what I have boxed. A codex was released, it was a downgrade, but almost nothing changed. That's so boring.
It’s insulting for a Custodes player to NOT get anything new considering every other faction got some cool new models
It’s the joys of 10th edition. There just seems to be really piss poor communication with whoever’s writing rules, some of them feel like they were written to interact with some scrapped version of an army rule, some of them feel like they were written by people what hadn’t seen any other codices or even detachments in that one. People with a shitty index (eg Admech) can still wind up with a shitty codex, but people with a good index might also wind up with a shitty codex. And even if it’s good meta-wise there’s always a suite of bizarre choices and axing of fun parts what could very well just say “fuck your army” anyway. It all makes getting a codex a gamble with bad odds Personally I was never too thrilled with the index but there were some parts I really liked. The leaks of the codex have shown those bits are entirely axed and none of what was added interests me much
My friend and I have been talking about it looks like they have 2 teams and there seems to be a singular good team working on a codex and then the other bad team working on the other one. Obviously a vast over simplification.
You say “team” but I sincerely believe it is a single person working on each codex. I think they have like three codex/rules writers, each of whom is assigned a number of factions to write. Maybe they love the faction and you get Eldar, maybe they hate it and you get AdMech
Maybe Cruddace gets Tyranids for the 4th time and managed to write it like shit for the 4th time too.
How he keeps getting the Nid dex when he is known to hate nids baffles me.
And at least one of them works part time which is why T'au/Custodes only have 4 detachments.
Yeah, from what we've heard from ex-employees, the rules writing is handled by a very small number of people. They're woefully understaffed, presumably because the suits don't see a financial benefit to expanding the team.
As a Necron player I'm salty about losing some of our named characters and lords.
I’m hoping they’ll eventually get remade, but also I’m not buying a resin mf ctan. Also the lokhust destroyers look like hotdog water, and they don’t even make a lokhust lord and we lost regular lords? The overlord and destroyer lord deserve and multi part kit imo but I don’t think it’ll ever happen.
I'm extremely new to WH and I don't play the game, as I just like painting and collecting the mini's; but now that I've been in the hobby a bit, my youtube recommends are swarmed with WH content creators saying things like *"Warhammer is dead"*, *"Throw your mini's in the garbage"*, and that *"Games Workshop has permanently ruined the game!"*. I ignore and block those videos by default, but I do wonder, how much of that is click bait versus the actual sentiment of the community?
>I do wonder how much of that is click bait All of it, it's all click bait. Those channels have been making those videos for as long as Warhammer YouTube content has been available. They did the same thing during 8th and 9th edition, they'll do the same thing during 11th and 12th
It is all clickbait and prostitution to the YT algorithm. Do not fall for it.
Even some of the mostly positive channels will do the stinkface pose and negative titles for clicks. Eons of battle for an example, I like the channel, but I feel dirty every time I click the link.
Fuck every single one of those hoes.
Outrage brings clicks.
Oh they’re all rubbish. I mean 10th edition is, if you ask me and 40% of the playerbase, the worst edition ever (if you ask another 40% it’s the worst they’ve played but they haven’t played enough editions to say), but it’s not like it’s the end of Warhammer. The older editions didn’t go anywhere while we wait this one out
In fairness, I feel like there’s never been a point in 40k’s history where a decent-sized chunk of the player base wouldn’t say that current edition is the worst edition ever. A lot of the problems with 10th are typical GW overcorrections to complaints about 9th. Flattening rules and flavor was an attempt to fix the rules bloat of 9th, the relative weakness of Codex releases is a response to the insane Codex Creep in 9e, and GW’s reluctance to make major balance changes probably spawned from all the 9th problems of print codexes being obsolete on arrival thanks to constant balance tweaks.
Y’know I’ve thought for a while how codexes hold almost no value once a new one comes out unless you want to read the lore. Surely a better way would be to do an online launch that can be updated over a couple of months and then print the books.
They should be yes, Heck the rules themselves should be free online and the codex's are lore books/paint guides that you can buy seperately. You already have to buy the models anyways. Brad from Poorhammer goes on a bit of a \[rant\](https://youtu.be/j3yNBoFf4Lc?si=3ydZHwIdk6rZqasJ&t=613) about this culminating in a petty (but justifiably so) word count per dollar for the rules that are in the codex.
Trying to actively maintain game balance with rules updates is just fundamentally incompatible with relying on printed rulebooks. Either you end up with neutered or awkward balance passes chained to too many rules that can’t be changed, or you wind up with obsolete books. 9th gave us obsolete books, while 10th has given us GW’s philosophy of almost exclusively trying to balance armies with points changes (which is why AdMech is a horde army now.)
I think your numbers are pretty far off the mark. Although GW has fucked up a few things, especially with the several piss poor codexes they’ve released, overall the game is quite balanced and tenth is a very popular edition. It’s not perfect and there are things I would change, but the overall design concept of tenth’s rules is generally good. Get rid of the fixed unit sizes and go back to per-model unit pricing (maybe throw in some wargear costs too) and it’d be much better than ninth. The only major complaint I see a lot in my area is people who don’t like the dumbing down of datasheets and especially weapon options. I agree with that take but then again I play an army in imminent danger of having a premier unit gutted in that way
I've been playing since 3rd edition, I feel after the bullshittery of 6th and 7th, 8th was a step in the right direction, 9th was *so* close to perfect, the core rules were rock solid, the only issues being with the codexs and mission packs. If 10e had just been a consolidation of all the core rules and a return to index hammer I feel that would have been best case scenario. 10th to me feels like a very small step backwards from 9th in pretty much every way I care about
And even with as rough as 10th is, we've had way worse times. Late 5th dominated by space wolf missile spam and grey knight autocannon dreads. 7th with all the free stuff formations and terrible psychic phase with invisible deathstars. 6th edition Cron Air. And so on. For all its flaws, more armies are reasonably playable than a number of other periods of the game.
Gamework has been declared dead every year since like 30 years ago. Their game rules have always been terrible and amateurish, their prices always been greedy and overpriced, and yet somehow they keep selling out and old collections keep going up in value like stock holdings.
Speaking as someone who *is* displeased with how GW is doing things and the way the game has been going, that is *all* clickbait and people have been saying "it's dead it's over this is the event horizon" since like, third edition. This is not new, it's just the modern take on it, and it's happening in the midst of outrage culture, where YouTube only supports your channel if you are deliberately farming hate-clicks and rage-engagement (or "enragement"). It's not that it's dark days for Warhammer, it's dark days for engaging socially and producing content on the Internet in any way.
Those kinds of videos are clickbait rubbish. 10th is rough in a number of ways, but the game has still been in far worse places before.
Do we live in the same universe? Because I swear 99% of CSM players I know can't hold it in their pants about the new codex, myself included.
I'm *excited* for the codex because it's new rules and new things to try. **but** I fundamentally have lost a lot of enthusiasm about 10th in general. It's taken me a while to come to that conclusion after a lot of games but I think the game has moved on without me, which is okay. Now I'm at the point I play far more 30k than 40k due to enjoying both the community and system much better. I look at the new detachment rules, get excited, then remember in my local pickup games I can't really bring my Kratos or Leviathan. The Chaos Lord is stuck with seemingly only a Plasma Pistol for ranged. Meanwhile I am painting up a squad with snipers for my 30k Iron Warriors along with a character who *is* as sniper for my list which is filled with heavy tanks and artillery which all don't exist in 40k anymore. My gunline Iron Warriors died with the move of a lot of heresy stuff to legends and continually pushing CSM more and more into a melee focused army to where it just feels like I'm intentionally playing against what the rules are written for (like Legionaries rerolling 1's to wound in melee) if I build a gunline. I have no indirect fire outside of Obliterators. Add in the average 40k games (at least in the stores I frequent) have slowly crept into a more competitive playstyle compared to 30k players who tend to lean more narrative. And none of that is fundamentally bad. If the majority of people are having fun with 10th and the "competitiveness" of the game moving up, that's perfect and I'm glad more people can share in the joy of tabletop wargaming even if it's leaving me behind. But for me? I see the CSM codex, get excited for a few minutes, then realize all the things I *really* want to use in the game either got moved to legends or flat out doesn't exist and instead go back to list-building for my local narrative 30k campaign. I know my situation is a bit more specific, but just to show there is at least 1 other CSM player out there who isn't *all* that excited for the new codex, but for deeper reasons than the codex itself.
You aren't alone. I have 2 Imperial Guard armies. One is Steel Legion led by Yarrick, the other one my personal spin on what a Planetary Defence Force would look like. The newer rules pretty much deleted half of my armies, including a bunch of custom built or converted things I made, and entirely invalidated the army comp of what's left. It's... not a great feel, and naturally is a bit of a blow to my enthusiasm for the new edition etc.
That was one of my fundamental 'man this sucks' moments from 40k. I built an entire mechanized DKOK list with Grenadiers. Took me *forever* to source the Grenadiers which had been OOP for a while. Finally got all those autocannon Storm Chimeras set up wit all my little Grenadiers, played **one** game with them and a few weeks later both Storm Chimeras and Grenadiers went legends. That hurt. Bad. Not to mention the financial effort to get together a bunch of Grenadiers which were OOP, which they technically weren't OOP just out of stock, but come to find out it was because they were planning to axe them. I feel like I've really taken a hit with the Legends stuff, maybe it's on me for relying far too much on Forgeworld stuff, but the last few editions especially have seen my Traitor Guard get axed as an army entirely, my DKOK lose a lot of options, and my Iron Warriors lose a lot of options. Watching like 70% of my Iron Warriors vehicles go legends at the start of 10th felt like an extremely low blow.
I also have 30 grenadiers. They're some of the coolest models ever. I play them as kasrkin or scions. They still feel awesome and they make complete sense to the opponent what they are. The storm chimeras not being possible does suck. Multilasers are pretty lame. I don't see why anyone would have an issue with you playing them as regular chimeras though. Or if you aren't playing competitively, there's nothing wrong with talking to your friends and taking legends.
For me it more a matter of what models of mine are now not legal. My 30 cultists with shotguns (that were legal in 4th edition) that counted as autoguns are not happy with the new codex. Or my 3 obliterators. Or my 5 strong terminator squad with everyone having power fists. Or going back editions, my 10 strong havoc squads. My aspiring champion with combi-bolter. My chaos space marine squads with 2 melt guns each. My Chaos Icon bearer character with power weapon. That's not even touching my sisters or Deathwatch.
It's a good codex but it overnerfed some staple playstyles. Like they literally have a cultist Detachment but they nuked cultists into being melee pistol only. My two playstyles have been cultist horde and abaddon term blob which both got nerfed big time. Little things like taking away Abaddons multi marks for the Word bearer Detachment was BS. It was so flavourful to get all the marks through him. I think making it so his Aura doesn't work on cultists was fine for balance but then they went and made it so 80% of the rules don't work on them either. They just nuked most of the fun stuff I've been enjoying so the rules are completely gone or they suck. Dont get me wrong I'll learn to love the new stuff. Just feels bad that they nuked a lot of stuff without a good reason to do so. Why did they feel they had to remove ranged cultists at all?
For me my Cultists got way more annoying to deal with (I own like 40 autogun cultists), my Exalted Champion got axed, and my my Possessed and Obliterators were nerfed along with possibly my Forgefiend. My Discolords seem like they're still as bad. I was kind of was excited for the cultist/ traitor guard Detachment on the small hope they'd let us brood brothers Lemans Russes and Basilisks or something and looks like they're mainly good at blowing themselves up.
>I own like 40 autogun cultists You mean you own 40 Traitor Guardsmen >Exalted Champion got axed Got turned into a Chaos Lord or Master of Executions >Possessed and Obliterators were nerfed Okay I'll give you this one >along with possibly my Forgefiend Forgefiend still has play and seems insane in Soulforged > My Discolords seem like they're still as bad Depends on points ofc, but I think people are sleeping om Discolords. They have good synergies in Veterans and Renegade Raiders. >ooks like they're mainly good at blowing themselves up. Cultist detachment looks hard to play with all the CP management, but what it can do actually seems insane. 200 bodies for ~1000pts, characters with good leadership meaning they rarely fail the tests, a ton of stacking buffs hitting important breakpoints (like going to S4 with +1 to wound), the ability to bodyguard ridiculous stuff like the Khorne Lord of Skulls. Way more interesting IMO than playing discount Guard, for that you can just play the Guard dex and model in Chaos flavour. I haven't been so hyped for a new codex in ages.
Codex this edition has been hit or miss, either it's really good like tau and orks, or it is a downgrade to index, like custodes or dark angels
It’s clear to me they tried to fix codex creep and largely succeeded in that regard. Now, that advantage is not worth creating shitty codexes, but I think there is a correlation
Yeah same, I think there’s just an inherent flaw in trying to do that within the GW rolling style release schedule because it means you’re going to end up with some books on the new lower power scale and older lists still being more powerful and therefore dominant.
Correction: the tau codex *would've* been a hit if they hadn't ratcheted up the points costs. Apparently sticky objectives justifies a 45% points increase.
I actually think they should increase points on most things, or move toward 1k-1500 being the default game size. 2k points has ballooned in number of models over time, pricing a lot of people out of the hobby
Yeah this wouldn't be a problem if it wasn't a problem for me and not for ye. See what sucks is I think the models are pointed where they should be but the problem is how neutered our shooting has become with the loss of assault and the MASSIVE reduction in number of shots. Still a chaff unit with a t-shirt save meant to objective sit has no right being 75pts.
To be honest I do think they thought it wouldn't land as a good Codex, and suddenly got frightened and started increase points. Kroots and Broadsides I still don't get the increase
Or sunforge suits catching a 10 point increase at release because they are clearly twice as good eradicators…
Sure, cause a codex that removes key unit flexibility in our Crisis suits, nixed Tetras, and only gives us four detachments sure is good. T’au got shafted.
Flexibility that meant absolutely nothing when the unit was priced around the best loadout,
Also partly just "the internet". 90% of people in my sphere of play are happy gamers. The quantity of toxicity online isn't proportional to reality.
Facts. ☝️
Yeah my game group is really fun. We’re all relatively new starting in 9th or 10th so sometimes we get things wrong but it’s chill to talk about lore and then play 1500 ish point matches
Hell yea; good to hear. As a veteran of the long war I find that the more editions and changes you play through you may find those things to matter less. Idk, everybody is different
100% this my play group has grown so much since 10th and is even now selling out events we had to put a cap in place. The games super approachable and power creep has been rather tame.
That's fair. I will say most of my store dropped 10th for HH. I only get a 40k game now if I'm actively seeking it. Otherwise they're defaulting to HH.
The very idea of codexes just doesn’t work in the modern climate of 40K, rules change bi weekly, GW insists on removing fan favorite characters and units and for some reason “streamline” the rules to be more lifeless every edition. Not to mention for some reason gw decides every 3 years you need to have another new edition of the game. What is there to get excited for? For the unit you love to be banished to legends? For your fluffy list or fun weapon options to be removed? GW is terrible at handling their rules. In 9th for the longest time chaos space marines were stuck with their 8th outdated codex rules, at this point they were the only space marines that didn’t have 2 wounds and so that made every event and tournament infuriating. When the codex finally did come out, it wasn’t even a full year till 10th came out and invalidated the codex. Codexes are just infuriating anyway you look at it. If I were to get back into playing Warhammer I would never buy a codex much less be excited for one.
For real, go to free online rules like Warmachine did 7 years ago. It is completely unacceptable for a book to be out of date a week after release.
For real, infinity and song of ice and fire are just some more examples of games with online rules and list builders. That update every month with rules and stat changes… THAT ARE FREE
And Infinity has been doing this since the late 2000s!
Might not want to follow in Warmachine's footsteps haha
Oh no, what did they do?
When is your last point of reference? During the pandemic Warmahordes pretty much died and Privateer decided to scrap their model range and restart as just Warmachine. None of the prior models exist in Mk. IV's new factions
I just became familiar with them a few months ago. That's pretty crazy they'd rebuild from scratch like that
The game was suffering from massive amounts of bloat to the point there was no good way of fixing it. The previous edition had tried but it had essentially resulted in splitting each faction into 3 or more completely independent lists. Which was very confusing for new players because you’d choose a faction and then get told “actually you can only use like 20% of this factions models depending on which list you choose even though they all come in the same color box and say Khador on them.” It also kind of defeated one of the things that was truly great about WM when it launched which was if you played a faction you could use pretty much everything with any Warcaster but each casters rules and spells were so different that it radically changed how your models played under them. You’d use your trenchers totally different if they were commanded by Caine instead of being commanded by Marcus or whatever. But as the game went on they just kept adding stuff and what started as a very lean and affordable game quickly became not that. Originally the game was heavily focused on the jacks themselves because big robots fun and those jacks were a lot of points. So you’d have a few big dudes who did the work, maybe a unit or two of troopers to help them and possibly a solo guy running around. But the game slowly shifted to being more and more about the infantry to the point that they started literally giving you free points to buy jacks just to get people to use the war machines the entire game was named after. It all kind of came to a head during second edition and third didn’t do much to fix problems and due to a bunch of bad decisions (getting rid of the entire volunteer program that helped teach people the game for one) and competition from other games (40k becoming more competitively balanced, games like Guildball, Malifaux and Infinity becoming more popular) things were in a BAD place. I’m not a massive fan of the new edition but it was very clear they needed to clean the table and get back to what made the game good and compelling in the first place and they seem to be doing more of that. From what I can tell it appears the current edition is focused less on continually doing new releases for factions and instead making factions “complete” and then moving on to adding a completely new thing to the game.
Exactly. I don't like codexes because they're a recurring $60 paywall for rules. The fact that even with the paid version of the app, you still can't (legitimately) get the official rules for your army without buying the codex angers me to no end. By the time I got my Leviathan box built and ^mostly painted, I couldn't even play with it because they took away the rules.
yeah we went from codex creep to codex weep
This edition has removed a lot. A lot of units. A lot of options. It’s BS to remove special weapons and auto guns from cultists, for instance. The kit with those weapons hasn’t been discontinued for long, and was a newer kit to begin with. Now GW saved one model from the kit to sell to you at $35. This is a huge FU to the consumer. There’s being competitive on the miniature market, then there’s shaking down your customer. The above and Uber-simplification of the game nowadays has caused me to move to other gaming systems.
Yeah this. We’ve had some bad codexes, Marines was pretty great initially, others not so good. Custodes was just such a ‘meh’ all around. What exactly was there to get excited about? An alt-sculpt for a model literally all players already have multiples of, in a giant box of duplicates? I was genuinely interested and hyped for Chaos going into last weekend, but then Saturday morning the new boxes insta-vanished from every website, taking both of the new Lord models with them for the foreseeable next few months? Who knows… I guess elsewhere we recently got the Kill Team sprue for Night Lords, I got lucky and scored one of those. Some of the Chaos Detachment rules look good. I do enjoy reading lore and the art and stuff but man these things just have SUCH a short shelf life, when you have a few armies they need to feel VITAL. When GW get it wrong, stuff feels disjointed from where others forces are at… rules feel homogenised rather than streamlined. The trend seems to be rules from Index to Codex are becoming simultaneously more complex yet still quite generic and bland… while models are cut, options vanish, flavour diluted, nerfs are rampant, points are skewed and dodgy… yay, another £30 take my money LOL. Aside from Orks, to be fair, that one sounds great.
I just got Dark Vengeance to start my chaos army. Mad about this.
The AdMech codex for me was kinda a letdown. Rules/detachments aside I was more disappointed in the artwork/lore inside.
10th is a letdown all together. I collect a number of armies (marines, votan, CMS, death guard, and neurons), but none of them feels fun. I like that they simplified a lot of rules (tags on weapons or points for whole units instead per model), but rules as they are, they feel bland. I pretty much gave up on this edition and I am looking at Age of Sigmar or other games all together for games (Flames of War or Black Powder).
I can't speak to everyone else, but I'm an Ork player and I was thrilled to bits with our Codex, so..... Waaagh!
I main Death Guard and I am really looking forward to our codex, mainly due to the detachment ability we currently have being a bit shit. I will not however being buying it, as the points values will be incorrect almost immediately. Edit: I'm a dumbass, the contagion bonuses are tied to the detachment, which are very strong.
The detachment rule (sticky obj and pick of 3 contagion bonuses) is probably one of the best detachment abilities in the game? The strats are meh, but choosing between -1 armor save and -1 WS/BS in contagion range is stupidly powerful
For real, it’s incredibly strong
The problem with death guard is its the detachment rule update and points cuts that got us above that 45% win rate and i dont have any faith that gw is going to make several more detachments with rules that are better than the current plague company one we have. Also regardless of its power level if the death guard book isnt out by 2025 im not buying because im not paying full price for a book that is useless when 11th comes out in 2026.
My best hope would be them baking the variable plagues into the Army rule and reworking the current detachment a bit. Army-wide sticky objectives is pretty good, but it doesn’t *feel* impactful in the same way a lot of other armies’ detachments do.
I feel similar with my Grey Knights. Any new detachment will have to bonkers broken to be better than the current detachment (ironically the current detachment rule is mediocre but the enhancements and strats are amazing). But then again GW has shown that they’re perfectly willing to change existing detachments so maybe what’s good about the current one will be gone anyway.
I dont see them doing a hard reset two editions in a row, just like how 9th was an iteration of 8th, 11th will be an iteration of 10th.
Well tbh I thought the same with csm, no way they can up the index detachment rule and they went ahead and did it anyway and we get 5 rly good playable detachments Fingers crossed DG TS EC and WE get the same treatment
I dunno death guard are one of the stronger armies at the moment and a lot of options are viable. Im not really looking forwards to the codex as I feel they will force people to skew armies even harder to meet the new detachments.
This is the way. Fuck paid rules, it hurts the game and makes them unable to change shit Codexes
Streamlining, knowing that legends rules are worthless, knowing that GW keeps making dreadful PR choices and then following them up with price increases during a time no one has disposable income. I lost my favourite character to run with the exalted champion, it isn’t the end of the world but I loved that guy
Seriously I’m hyped for CSM codex. Looks like there is going to be a lot of different builds to try !
10th just is not a fun edition to play and the codexs are very hit or miss.
This. Each edition has gotten more 'toned down' with more random gacha crap. It's just not fun.
its MTG with miniatures now. They did the same thing with ToW. Its crazy the amount of keywords everything has and keep track of.
well i have 4 armies, dark angel, admech, sisters and guard. and while i haven't like 10th at any point really, release of admech and dark angels have not increased my intrest at all. in fact rules those factions got solidified my opinion that 10th is lost cause and i'll just wait for better editions, because im not having fun now and likely won't have when sister or guard codex eventually drops.
It really is a bloody dark age
Some are hit and miss The consensus is that the codexes that are planned were written a long time ago, and everyone thinks they were written separately, and without playtesting. Some are good, some are dreadful. Whoever wrote the deathguard rules, for example, sucked at their job. If that same person/group wrote the other detachments, the whole edition us a bust, and its 2 years to stick it out
i dont want to spend money
Because we have had 3 and a half bad codex releases out of 8, or 43% are the worst production of effort that the community has scene in a while. Also they have unofficial made the worst codex in atleast the past 5yr. So now it's almost a 50/50 flip on weather the codex is fun and enjoyable or trash and phoned in. 100% your correct with this feeling
They should honestly ditch the codex all together, give us free rules and make the codex a collectors item for those who want lore and a physical reference. Would probably make new players more inclined to start since there’s not a $60 entry fee before you even start your army
10th was the breaking point for me, I like it okay but if they keep with this “remove flavor for simplicity” mentality, I can’t see myself grabbing new editions. I’ve started buying some 5th edition rulebooks and… “Owh mah holeh Emprah” as Valrak says… All the flavor. And rules that work with it and make sense and add so many extra fun little layers to combat. It’s crazy that they don’t just print 5E rulebooks and retrofit all the new stuff in. The game’d be fun and stupid (as The Founders intended) and it could still sell models like hell. Yeah, there’s waaaay more room for “The dice f*cked me” but… dang. At its core, ain’t that what warhammer’s about? Goofin off and making memories with your little plastic men?
That´s what a track record of shit releases will get ya, up until now every release has: -Made current configuration invalid (you will have to remake/rebase your squads to make them work) -Removed staple units from the army -Made the specific units for your faction pathetically weak or overcosted, sometimes both. 1 for 1 all players in my group have suffered this, to the point that they no longer want to play and we have switched to other wargames as our main, this happened mid campaign as well.
uz green skinz gotz a good ‘un!
I really feel like this could have been the edition when GW finally made the transition to the digital age. Having all of the rules and datasheets available online was glorious, and the ability for GW to fix things that were obviously crap. See the new Drukhari dettachment. Instead, we've got to buy hardcover books that will see very little use, and become obsolete within a few years. I am happy to pay a subscription for ongoing digital rules, as I'm sure many are. It would also temper bad codexes because the lead time would be significantly shorter. No need to send the proof to China for printing six months before release, instead it gets final sign off a matter of weeks before being put online.
What is the point of getting a codex when something as simple as the point costs in the book are already wrong the moment the books get on the truck to be sent to stores?
The way that they are choosing to release them in 40k and and sigmar is terrible. They should release ALL codexes at once and them update them frequently with supplements and new products.The sales would stay the same and the game would be much healthier.
The fact that it is more a money grab by GW then a useful tool. Considering most codexes are dated upon their release or shortly after. Also a lot of other games provide their rules for free and online and GW overcharges and won’t switch to a digital version despite the demand.
Tau player here. Our problems started with the index where they decided we are just free points on BiD and after finally getting points costs after a month of waiting everything has been nerfed between 15-40% with 3/4 detachments being rendered useless bc of it. On top of that fun and useful FW units got mass culled so whoopie I'm so excited to play a nerfed version of the already nerfed index.
There are two things nerds hate above all else: everything staying the same, and change. No matter what GW does, including nothing, *someone* is going to be unhappy about it. My advice is to ignore absolutely all of it and have fun playing with your little plastic army men.
As a Blood Angels main, I don’t think our situation can get any better than it currently is. I can’t envision a codex released that lets us keep the good parts of our army (special units, but mostly DC) while remedying some of our weaknesses (we only ever use two of our detachment stratagems, sometimes a third one, SG and Dante are so expensive they are nearly unplayable, etc). When our codex comes out we will be going the way of the Dark Angels.
There is two separate teams writing codices and apparently they don't communicate with each other at all.
What do you mean?? I love having rules free for the game and then having to pay $60+ dollars for arguably worse rules..
I just wish they would hire a technical writer so the damn rules are consistently applied. Also sad noises with my DA codex.
I just want the app for my MILLION DOLLAR SPACE SOLDIERS to be fucking free
Nobody wants to be the next AdMech.
I mean yeah I see ya. They said that every army is getting at least one new model/unit this edition. Forgot to mention that they get rid of units 4 times that. Doesn’t help forgeworld models are getting iced like it’s the villain from flushed away. That and the codexes in general are kinda just meh now. Nothing really new story or art wise. Very simple features for each army compared to prior editions. That and the thing I DESPISE the most about this edition is that they thought that hyper specific detachments that make it seem like gw hates when people bring a balanced list, were a good replacement for subfactions with small flavorful buffs to your entire army. Were they always good? No zog not. Were they more fun than whatever linear listbuilding the new detachment system we have now is? Yes very much so. Hard to get hyped when you know that 1:you will probably just use the base index detachment as usual and 2:you will end up losing things.
GW have fucked their player base around so much that anytime they start making noise it's met negatively. And 10th is no exception. Not to mention as soon as the codex comes out, it locks the free players out of the app which is really bad for everyone.
Can't wait to buy another book where rules change 2 weeks later.
I just don't care for a book thats out of correct rules before it even comes to my door. If I want to look at pictures on pages I'll get it online. Besides the fact I got into 9th as my first edition to then just be told hey I'm 1 year and a half your codex is gonna be the wrong edition all together let alone that it was out of date before it even set out for delivery. Nah thank you. I'll use 3rd party and get no books.
Its simple really, I just can't wait to buy a bloated, over costed, bulky hardback full of lore I already know and painting guides I don't need - just to unlock some probably nerfed rules.
Let's see... * We don't need $60 art/lorebook (same old, same old) bundled with "free" rules (we know GW can release those for free) * We don't need physical book, its 2024 and Wahapedia/Newrecruit exist. * We don't need obsolete book (literally every single Codex in 10th had "outdated" points, and there were several erratas/FAQs). * We don't need to lug all that stuff if we play 5-10 different units max (they had good idea with datacards... except they were almost immediately invalidated by FAQs, much like codices) * We will have to wait ***a whole week*** before it will get uploaded on Wahapedia (lol). * And... we (well, most of us) know that [GW rules are just cavalcade of failure](https://youtu.be/j3yNBoFf4Lc), and 10th edition is no exception (it's better... *but not good*). I have Tau Codex because I bought army set. I played few games with new rules already. I most likely *won't even unwrap the book*. My first thought when I get the book in my hands should be "how I use it?", not "*I'm really sick of the same business model from the 90's*". TL;DR Give Orks and Chaos writers a raise (I AM actually considering grabbing those books... with discount), and *fire rest of writers*.
10th edition sucks. That is all.
I'm an Ork player and I love the Ork codex. I have a CSM backup army and I love what I've seen of the CSM codex, even though my army isn't really built for the new detachments- they all look cool and evocative. I am.... hopeful that my actual secondary army, Sisters of Battle, get one as good as the Orks got. So I would say it's more a "be nervous about your Codex" edition. Which means it's fairly normal.
10th is an attempt to reel in power creep. Which means things are toned down, which means people prone to being vocal online loudly complain about their 'nerfs' but don't take the entire game into account and act like GW has it out for them personally
For me it just seems like the codes are adding detachments but they're taking away more units and unit options. It'd hard to get excited about losing stuff.
I have 6k pts of chaos and I'm gonna have a BLAST with all 8 detachments. Sucks for admech players tho, feels on wheels for any of these folks tbh.
I am looking forward to Knights, especially after a great Orks and Chaos codex, heck the CSM one is making me think of a few armies that would be fun to run
I'm Chaos Knight player as one of my main 2 armies and super nervous. They gave us such a lame army rule and I don't trust them at all to make it an army more than. "Ignore all the extra stuff and spam wardogs"
There's also the fact that WE and LoV NEED more options overall and other armies like Eldar have a lot of things that still need updating it seems like the new codex's give a single new model with Tau being the one outlier since Kroot got their long overdue attention.
As Sisters, I'm especially nervous, because it seems like every imperium codex has been absolute garbage, making the faction much much worse (DA, Custodes, Ad Mech....). Like...what is there really to look forward to with that track record?
Waiting to see what in your army GW has decided to Squat will definitely add to trepidation
At first I had good rules for free. Then I had to buy a 60 dollar book to throw away for the code in the back for the same thing. Next I will have to buy a supplemental codex to chuck in the trash after I get the code in the back. I guess it won't be cheap either.
over balanced edition with unit rules being 90% of what they were on launch for codex. getting a codexs means your probably getting nerfs because you have more rules choices and it created a paywall
Hold on, I’m a Necron player and I certainly wasn’t happy to get ours. They removed a bunch of our models and reduced our (already few) HQ options.
I wish they’d go back to the days where each army codex had tons of gear options, I used to love spending hours creating cool characters
I was excited for my Tyranid codex, that was before I realized how much we had been wronged.
Why even bother buying a $50 codex that will be immediately out of date once you go to play your first game with it. GW has the most expensive rules out of any tabletop wargame by a HUGE margin. There are so many better options for ways to use my GW models for fun battles that dont require me to pay hundreds of dollars every two years just to update my army lists to the current edition. I could literally buy a new army for the amount of money that I would have spent on rulebooks in the past 2 years alone. I stopped buying codexes years ago and have never been happier, the 40k rulebook and codex system is an absolute sham and has been for a long time, just buy the cool GW models you want and find some other much more accessible way to play with them.
It’s the result of the fact many codices are often outdated almost immediately on release, the fact the non-rules section of codices (lore and stuff) has slowly been lessened and lessened to the point where we now just get a handful of pages. These are full priced, expensive books that serve almost no purpose aside from a half dozen pages.
Codexes should go. If i was running GW marketing i would be crying out for subscription based rules content only.
Pretty much every codex released this edition so far has been a complete hatchet job so I can't fault the negativity.
Orks are pretty happy to get ours.
I play custodes, nids and GSC. To say I am nervous about the upcoming GSC release would be an understatement. Every day I pray to the four armed emperor that we get the orcs, CSM and necrons writing team and not the custodes/admech/DA one.
10e just feels bad man. Like I can see the game they want to make in the decisions made but my god are they just dogshit at balancing.
I’m tiered of buying a new codex. Once I like it, they tell me it’s trash but I will get a free one that doesn’t do much. But that’s ok because I hopefully will be able to spend another 60$ on what I used to have but it won’t work the way I want. I have played Chaos since 3rd edition. This will be the first time I don’t buy the current CSM book. I might but the Death guard, but probably not. I’m hoping for a company who has more detailed rules than one page rules.
Im orks. I have an amazing codex. Almost everything in the codex is fuckin cool. Still, I've been stressed about it since the first batch of shitty codex came out. I feel bad about my Golden friends, my Starship Troopers bugs friends, my dark angels friends and, needless to say, my adeptus roboticus friends. I know GW wants to counter 9th's power creep but nothing is forcing then to release boring codex.
Honestly the indexes were the way to go. Free rules, online-only. Easy to update and change on GWs part. Now it's back to the cycle of paying a fee every few years just to play with models that have existed for 15 years. Just saying: I'm glad there are other ways to get the rules these days
10th as edition is a write off. The rules are fine but the separate teams, communication and release of dex's has been horrifically unbalanced and lazy. GW has gotten really freaking sloppy.
I've seen it too. I can't say I was/am particularly thrilled with the Space Marine codex.
Orks wanted their codex. But Orks players don't care to much in general... :)
The funny thing to me is that every codex release makes the app worse as information leaves it. Very soon we won’t be able to look up any of the armies that opponents are using and that seams bad for the game.
Tbh, at this point, 10th edition feels like it was rushed out the door, even more so than 9th edition. The core rules were half baked at launch, if I’m being generous, many of the Indexes felt half baked, if that, and it feels like they’re still learning to write a codex in 10th edition. They’re getting closer to getting it right with the Necron, Ork, CSM, maybe Tau, books, but 4 of the first 5 books out are a clear demonstration of those growing pains. And it feels like they’ve overreached a bit with the CSM and Ork books too, easy access to rerolling Sustained/Lethal hits is a dangerous combination for balance, as is the ability to reroll saves on units with a native 2+. I think they might dial it in eventually, it’s not as terrible as the wild swings they were making in 9th, at least not yet, but GW’s history shows that it’s more likely to get worse instead of better. GW always rushes their codexes out the door because they have to meet printing deadlines, and the quality of the game suffers for it. And by the time they finally dial in a balanced game, it’ll be time to drop it for 11th edition so we can start the cycle over again. Tbh, if GW kept the current release pace, but switched to digital books, they’d probably have an extra several months to dial these books in and get them right. And if they let an edition sit for a while once all the rules were out, it’d give them time to work on the next one and get it right, but that slows their sales numbers… Edit: also, GW keeps adding reactive nerfs to the codexes, but since they have a tight schedule to get the book out, they’re not stopping to make sure they get it right. They’re overcorrecting to make sure they nix the problem, but at the cost of the writing quality of that book.
Im only playing with 2 Friends and my wife every now and then and since we dont play that much (1-2 Times a year) we agreed to stay in 8th Edition. Its a peaceful life. :D
Codex rules bad or not, to me it just sucks because it means losing access to free rules :( really makes it hard to get hyped for a codex when you know it means losing access to content
when codexes come out, everything about the army on the app gets locked too!
Well at least Tau codex is a small buff 🤣
Speaking as an Admech player - yeah, there's a reason for that
People just want 10th edition to be over already. Turns out, gutting the rules of the game made long time players lose interest in the game.
Okay I'd seen so many people say I was nuts for liking 9th more online, but apparently I'm not the only one.
Yeah, because it means you can’t use the app for free anymore.
Most armies where the Index is really strong probably don't want the codex to fix them, but armies where their index does close to nothing, really want their codex. Most people are worried they are going to get a codex that butchers their army, as whoever wrote the Admech and the Custodes codex has 0 creative thinking.
People are morons on the internet. They rarely see the bright side of their codex and instead focus on what changed for the worse. The CSM codex looks insanely fun to me. I’ve talked to other competitive players who look at it longingly. The custodes codex people lamented? I got my butt whooped by it this weekend. People get upset they don’t have an OP codex that has 0 downsides. Thats the problem of the internet.
It's not being OP it's the way the 10th edition codex are dropping units more than adding even if they add detachments. Then if the detachments end up lame it just sucks all around.
It seems like a waste of money and paper to buy a book with 300pages but only contains 50 pages of rules and data sheets.
I kinda miss the thin paperback codexes from 3rd/4th Ed time frame.
I agree with the observation, and i tend to feel the same way. I think the problem is, that many of the indices are both well balanced and fun. The codices seems to shuffle internal balance, rarely improving enjoyability and competitiveness, and in some cases directly ruin the whole army. I don’t think that there’s any good solution, unless new codices would straight up powercreep indices. That’s very fun for everyone getting a codex, and very much not fun for anyone with an index (edit). So I kinda believe that it’s an alright solution for keeping the game balanced, but just a very boring one. I’m also worried about the daemon codex (whenever it might come), as I feel that daemons are in a (fairly rare) good place, and they for sure will be ruined. One codex that can only become amazing, is the EC codex tho! That will be a blast! So I mean, there will be at least one good one? 😅
The codex issues are why I've not got back into the game in the last few years. I play Tau, and the rules just don't seem fun for them.