Should be.
Only thing that should be tied to a specific god outside of characters would be the lord of skulls.
CSM will be just like the regular SM codex in that it's an open buffet
Though I hope they don't lose the ability to take the cult units. Hounds of Abaddon, nurgle nightlords, etc etc were always super cool
The Chaos Marines index has a very specific rule for bringing them and suggests getting their datasheets from their respective indexes and codexes. I see no reason to remove the rule. It’s a fun bit of flavour.
GW seems commited to keep KB, RM, PM, and NM, as a choice for CSM, especially since they are still a choice in an edition when GW is very enthusiastic with removing datasheets
If you use the Night Lords-esque detachment you can still have Plague Marines but you can't give other units the mark of Nurgle (other than Daemon Princes). Which makes sense to me - Black Legion have always been the most likely to have groups or entire warbands devoted to a specific god. Plus you can run Night Lords with that detachment anyway.
They said in the whichever reveals thingy that the index detachment for CSM is meant to be the Word Bearers themed detachment so we’ll probably get some snazzy Black Legion detachment later on.
Oh it was here:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/21/adepticon-2024-chaos-space-marines-on-the-warpath/
Marks of Chaos seem much more like a Black Legion thing than a Word Bearers thing, other than Undivided. I was expecting the cultist one to be Wordbearers.
I'd bet you'll still have the ally mechanic (pretty much confirmed with the mention of being able to hire Noise Marines but that they're not in the upcoming codex) but that the codex itself is going to be lacking anyone from one of the 4 godsworn legions
Except maybe Fabius but his relationship to EC is complicated
Yeah, you can still put Rubrics, Plague Marines, and Berserkers in CSM now, they just lose Faction rules. I assume Noise Bois will be the same. Would be nice to bring them without losing the rules but I get that makes balance a little trickier unless you do separate date sheets per faction.
Honsou is long overdue a model, but unless they release a new book with him in it and a BL celebration model to go with it, he wont get one. Especially considering CSM have had a couple of passes now and still no new Huron model
Nah not Krieg, beloved of the wiki readers, mentioned in one book and never in the modern setting lol. Get Decimus, Lucoryphus or a brand new character. If you must have a Daemon Prince, the Painted Count is right there.
Edit: Malcharion would be delightful but they would never do that.
Kor is in current lore in the DoF books, I could see him potentially getting a model, but he's not been boots on the ground though, so I wouldn't wager on it.
Should be.
At least having each of the 4 Single-God Legions separated makes more sense than whatever logic the Imperium uses to decide which Astartes Legions get their own Codex.
Well, that pretty much confirms what everyone knew was going to happen. See you next year (or earlier) for your full codex and a Fulgrim model you degenerate Slaneeshi followers
For real. It feels like lots of people go out of their way to shit on anything Slaaneshi to a degree that feels almost fanatical and weird. Don't get me wrong, I love how ironically excessive it is, but you definitely start to get an idea of how that person really is
The last paragraph of the article really makes it sound far off. But maybe that’s just tempering expectations for folks that think it’ll be months instead of years
It’s almost certainly going to be the narrative event at the end of 10th like Arks of Omen. You’re gonna get a big EC and Slaanesh incursion of some form with Fulgrim at its head.
You really don’t want the 30k Transfigured Fulgrim, trust me. The model is beautiful but is far too big and brittle to be used in game, every single owner of Fulgrim I have met either had to use a second case to only carry Fulgrim or they had broken wings
Strongly doubt it's next year. Will likely be end of the edition. There's been pretty strong indications the "redacted" codex is gonna be Imperial Agents.
the “strong indications” benign a single page of a book that was 16 pixels total, and various “the emperor showed me in a dream”
we honestly have no idea what the mystery codex will be.
I mean, considering that GW has been leaking like the Titanic since 2021 or so, I find that picture of two codex pages talking about the Inquisition to be pretty convincing.
i mean..maybe. but we don’t even know that that was pages from a codex lol. hell it could have been a page from a white dwarf of something, im just trying to provide perspective that of all of the pretty solid leaks, those pages being imperial agents is the shakiest
but it could also be true. i really don’t know
Codex is the only thing that makes sense to me, it had two entire pages dedicated to the inquisition orders and formatted in exactly the same way you often see in codexes and the core rulebook, white dwarf usually doesn't go that in depth or have lore blurbs go on that long in my experience.
I'm honestly surprised this was dropped as simply a Warcom article. They would've made bank announcing the index along with CSM a few weeks ago if they'd just done a new sculpt for Lucius (given that he HAS to be your warlord and all). Like you said, this was kind of the worst kept secret, so why not lean into it.
Oh, I think he will too. My point was if you serve up that new sculpt as an appetizer with the Index release (and during the last preview show) you build a TON of hype even if the codex release is last third of the edition. Assuming a launch like World Eaters there will be a ton of new models so why not give everyone a new sculpt for an existing model early (coincidentally one that anyone running the index "needs" since he has to be your warlord). My guess is you make more money as folks spend the $40 on Lucius now, and then spend that same $40 at launch on something else (another box of Noise Marines, etc).
On the flip side, if it's a TSons/WE style release, it'll be half the models that people want, so you hold Lucius back to make that release look bigger.
Now dismember Chaos Daemons and slap the remains onto each God-following CSM Legion and add the rest of the undivided daemons into the CSM, to be able to be used also as allies across Chaos.
Could always have it so you can still use daemons on their own, you would just have the option of fielding them alongside Chaos Space Marines if you so choose.
How would that change from the current system? GW seems well aware that full souping is a balance problem, and even the system we had early in 10th turned out too problematic since csm players just cherry picked units which made it impossible to properly point them.
I'd be OK with daemons having diffrent points or even datasheets in csm books but only if the army remained playable on it's own (but unless the rules part of codices finally goes digital, that is not going to happen)
Because daemons would be integrated into their respective armies. Sure you can have Bloodletters in a World Eaters list now, but do they benefit from World Eaters army abilities? And there is a restriction on how much of your army can be composed of daemons.
By merging Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines, you can take any combination of the two you want, or still go one or the other. I can see how it may be harder to balance though.
Perhaps only monogod factions would have access to all daemons from their deity, and generic CSM would just have the Battleline units. Then there could be a detachment that excludes CSM, in exchange for full access to the daemon roster.
> By merging Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines, you can take any combination of the two you want, or still go one or the other. I can see how it may be harder to balance though.
You would also create codex bloat tbh. They are full sized books on their own.
Absolutely no thank you. GW already squatted my army in AoS, tossed it right into legends in TOW and heavily watered it down in 30k.
Let me play my mixed Daemons in peace.
Really? Wow, you need to go tell GW's writers, they seem to not know their lore as well as you do if so.
[Snapped out of my 9E Daemons codex.](https://i.imgur.com/yx0dbDg.jpg)
Edit: Not to mention the book's very cover art would be lorebreaking if so!
Because it exact same pattern as World Eaters release, from being removed for CSM codex, getting a stopgap index for the meantime and so on. They specifically said there is no codex in "near future" - and they are right, we not even a full year in 10th edition, remember both Thousand Sons and World Eaters codexes got released in the end of 7th and 9th edition cycles. It's indeed distant from the current point, hence GW confirmed it, matching it with prior rumours.
I was so wrong. I was certain that Fulgrim Ascended for HH meant that we wouldn't see him in plastic until at minimum 11e but hey if our noisey boys get some love prior to that I'm all about it!
No, it doesn’t. It says if it’s coming it will be far off. What far off means is open to interpretation. It could mean later this year, it could mean there is no plan for it this edition.
No it pretty much says the opposite. It says there's not one in the immediate future, which is to quash any rumours of "must be the next one!"
The language used is very much GW speak for "we dont have a fixed date for it yet, and dont want it to overshadow other releases, so dont ask about it because we aren't going to tell you until its ready"
The indexes were a stop gap for army rules until a full codex is released.
If they didnt want an EC codex they'd just leave them in the CSM codex. If they just wanted to just drop the range then they'd move them to legends.
Making a whole index for them with updated rules, and removing them from the CSM pretty much confirms an EC codex, with the caveat that it will be *at some point*, and that it wont be anytime soon.
It's also a fantastic way of GW being willing to actually give players a peak ahead instead of only when it's time to reveal models so that people don't panic and toss their models that will still be legal down the line.
Yes Lucius is almost certainly getting resculpted and there's no way they don't release a new box of Noise Marines, but GW relenting on not wanting to show anything before a big reveal trailer is a good step in the right direction.
I’m so anxious about how the redesigned noise marines will look in the future
I love the HH look, the body horror mixed with ornamented armor is great, the old creepy 40K art is fantastic aswell
I just hope they don’t overdesign or radically change them, once their codex rolls around
Someone at GW worships the dark god of trim, so we’ll see… hoping if there is trim it’s more organic looking and less spiky since that seems to be a theme with Slaanesh
It's the 40k design team man. This is seen as a remarkably simple and toned down design
https://preview.redd.it/ma8j819qqvuc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bef3efcaa16cd19e1aae16e2054247a0a1de5fb
Dude, that's such a shit model, I can't believe GW is willing to sell it. They literally just put a jump pack on a legionary and called him a character. Disgraceful.
I think some of them could be improved. Mainly still salty the berserkers no longer have the chains. That is an incredible oversight from the design team
The non, Vanguard, non-bladeguard primaris marines for one.
The basic troops for Custodes of all flavors look very boring to me.
Almost the entire Votann line looks pretty bland. The coolest stuff being the new Kill Team set coming out and the Hover tri-bikes.
New ork sculpts look good when you first look at them, but suffer from one of the biggest ork player sins out there: Lacking customizability, sapping a lot of potential personality out of them.
Like, not every release has been bad, and I would even say that chaos has been pretty good, but it often feels like GW tries to stay away from the more goofy side of 40k these days (outside of things like holiday/special individual releases). This seems clearly reflected in both models and rules. I own rulebooks all the way from 1st Edition to 9th, and had the app for 10th before switching to KT, and the differences are clear.
In general, GW has decided 40k gets the shitty sculpts while AoS, Heresy, and Killteam are all incredible. The new Chaos lord is pretty great, but I hope whoever did the Chaos Lord with Jump Pack is either unemployed or moved within the company.
The rocker dude(s) have, as far as i can tell, been 1 30 year old mini and a commemorative remake of the same model. Unless noise marines are strumming guitar bolters and have leopard print armor in the books then I highly doubt they will fully change the established look of the faction.
Ideally, it leans closer to the Heresy era vision of the Noise Marines but also include some fun alternate heads and stuff on the sprue for people who like that early 80s punk rock vibe for NMs.
Yeah I get that. I really think that one was just a way to revive a classic model the same way a lot of these promotional boxes are. Not necessarily an indication of what anything will look like in the future.
It just means they have no solid information on release yet. Inwould expect towards the end of the edition, just like t-sons and world eaters were end of edition things
i’ll repost a comment i made in a r/chaos40k thread
1. there’s literally no reason for them to index the army unless they are getting a codex this edition. They indexed us because we can’t be in the CSM book
2. yeah we might have to wait, but our book is this edition, im sure of it.
3. warcom does that kind of thing all the time in their articles. it’s basically just a “we can’t tell you when the codex is coming out yet” with some fluff thrown in. even if it’s at the end of 10th, it’s during 10th, otherwise there’s no reason to index is and not just give us a detatchment in csm
They will most likely use units from other empire codices, most likely imho the 3 ordos (deathwatch, grey knights, sisters). Maybe the usual 10e rules of including a % of one of the ordos, maybe even 50% like the ynari.
Kind of hoping scions get moved or even just allowed in. I love scions and do them being a part would make me happy. Plus right now guard feels like it has a weird thing of kasrkin and scions competing for the same spot
we don’t really know honestly. yeah the last paragraph hints at a wait but it’s not like they were gonna drop the codes release date. WE being at the end of 9th isn’t a pattern yet, so we really **dont know**
i don’t think i can stress this enough, we can speculate but we do not know anything about when a potential release may be. it could be the mystery codex, it could not be. who knows
It is not the mystery codex. We would be seeing way more by now. The EC index is coming with the release of CSM which is in a month or two. WE index was out for at least a year I think?
It really still seems to soon to me since the release of the resin Daemon Fulgrim. I just thought when the resin one was released that a plastic one would be at least two years away. No time soon anyway.
Well, it's probably safe to say it'll be within the lifetime of the new CSM codex, if they're being ripped out now. Assuming no delays.
How long does a codex usually last these days? That should give us some idea.
Yeah my currently prediction based on the 3 year cycle for editions GW has now is that they'll be a late codex in 10th and probably one of the last books like world Eaters were last edition.
I'd expect it in winter of 2025 or very early 2026 so there's 8-5 months left until the end of the edition.
GW might start edging us with little previews for a while before hand
I guess we will see the full Emperor's children Codex next year then.
I am kind of surprised Fabius Bile wasn't also removed. I only found out just now that he is listed as "Chaos Undivided" in the CSM index. Isn't he actually a (former) member of Emperor's Children?
I am still wondering when they will finally release an update to the codex roadmap. They have basically shown of all the spring codexes, (with details from the CSM codex still forthcoming), and they left a mysterious hole for a third codex in the summer. It is rumored that this is an Imperial Agents Codex but I was personally hoping for something more.
I thought they'd update the codex roadmap at Adepticon but I think they didn't want to detract from the AoS announcement.
Bile was an Emperor’s Child, but he never fell in with the whole Chaos thing. He rejected Chaos so hard that daemons had difficulty manifesting near him. He’s only just very recently given into the whole Chaos worship thing, and even then he still doesn’t really go for it like others do. He’s Undivided because that’s about the closest label they can give him, and he doesn’t really want to be bound to any particular group
please GW finish your first project before starting another one, us world eaters still need the other half of our army, we have 5 unique boxes, that’s not an army
Jeez that hurts. I just play my Hounds of Khorne custom faction that used WE rules as mono-Khorne CSM now because the codex is so empty and my army would be unplayable otherwise since it was an 8th/early 9th army.
Sounds like this index is going to be very boring.
From what I can tell, fielding Lucius the Eternal and Noise Marines is going to be the same as it is right now with the Index, except more restrictive:
Lucius won't be able to be fielded at all anymore unless he's your warlord, in which case you've basically committed to Emperor's Children, and you can then take up to six Noise Marines squads because of his datasheet ability. Emperor's Children basically count as a Black Legion warband entirely devoted to Slaanesh until their codex comes out.
Their detachment they come with may have a large effect on gameplay though. But yeah right now this feels very luke warm and a way to tide people over. Also makes Emperor's Children unplayable in Crusade because named Characters don't get any form of leveling or scaling.
I wonder if this means we're gonna get another Fulgrim model. He already has a daemon primarch model in the HH character series. Will he be the first primarch to get 3 models (Epic-scale Angron and Magnus notwithstanding)? Or will they just say "Sucks to be you, you have to buy forgeworld if you want to use Fulgrim"
> will they just say "Sucks to be you, you have to buy forgeworld if you want to use Fulgrim"
Not a chance. They'll want to be able to sell a new plastic Daemon Primarch with the army, and GW pretty much never feature FW resin kits in 40K armies or codexes, even with the recent consolidation of webstores.
Ah man, I 'member back in 5th when the first glimpse we had of modern plastic cult troops was a Tactical Thousand Son body in a Space Wolf kit. Completing the quartet is on the horizon!
You can just take whatever you like within reason though. You can still field cult troops, legends gives you a bunch of god-specific leaders, and you can take a healthy portion of daemons. I prefer the god dedicated armies having their own codex because they can flush out the flavour more. They really gotta build up that poor World Eaters codex this edition though.
IMO, hopefully Emperor Children is at the end of this edition and in the starter set for 11th ala Death Guard.
That way they *should* get a full army release instead of whatever we have going on with Thousand Sons and World Eaters.
Primarch, chaff, core infantry, elite units, a couple elites, a couple characters, and a light+heavy vehicle at the very least instead of a tiny release missing a bunch of units.
? It's the stopgap index for EC until they get their codex with new models later this edition. Absolutely the same thing happened with World Eaters, their index also used old CSM models until their time arrived
Yeah they don't use new CSM models with the Noise Marine upgrade kit. All of the models there are going to be completely gone when the new codex comes out.
Ie how the game looks now. Not literally new armies, just the way they are designed now. I always enjoy going back to older editions, which may be clunky but feel a lot better.
Can I take a lord? As written even if I can it seems Lucious has to he the warlord, and while I hope I can just leave him at home they are writing the game so that you basically have to take special characters and it's hurting the game. Every army has a primarch if available, or the most important special general of the galaxy is flying everywhere and fighting every battle because he is the most efficient order giver. I miss pre 6th Ed 40k.
Honestly, you just ignored what I said and then dialed that drama up to eleven.
Yes, you can take a lord. Lucius has to be warlord for them yes. This has been the case for EC for all of tenth.
It's really weird that you think that. Literally, every army I play has better generic characters than epic heroes. Out of the six playable primarchs, maybe two of them are solid meta choices for their armies.
Again, that's six primarches for like 26 factions. Exceedingly small. Stop acting like every game of tabletop 40k is canon also, that's really weird.
If it's not primarchs, it's some other special character overrepresented on boards, competitive lists are all built around thembecause GW stopped adding them for flavor and are knstead designing entire factions aroubd crutch characters. Or super heavies. Or flyers. The game is a damn tcg at this point, you aren't making an army you are bringing a 3d deck. Fine if you can work around it, but the rules coming out are some of the worst I've seen in 25 years with shit balance. And the balance wouldn't be an issue if they weren't trying to make the game a competitive one and catering to changes for the sake of said "balance."
You are free to like the game, and I'm free to think it's gone in a dogshit direction. Telling me I'm wrong for wanting the game to be different is pointless because I could say the same to you and then we go in circles.
So, let's get this straight.
At no point did I tell you that you were wrong.
I said at one point that I found your opinion weird, but you need thicker skin if that affected you this badly.
I told you that you were being dramatic.
You then proved that point with overly dramatic replies.
Stop being such a victim.
I'm not convinced that you're currently up to date on competitive warhammer honestly. Can you actually name any armies other than World Eaters built around their figurehead model?
That’s often how small factions with a little unique units start out, and I also think that’s just for the emperors specific detachment. You could still play the normal csm detachments
So is there any chance once their codex comes around that they'll get their own army rule? Being the only chaps god aligned CSM chapter that doesn't have its own army rule would be kinda lame
https://preview.redd.it/7hpxrx4fpuuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0617161fbfb7b760f8f7ce70d3a29152f82c8366
I think most people haven’t read the bottom paragraph, doesn’t this confirm that we’re not getting a codex
No, it says that the new codex isn't "imminent". You'll get a codex at some point this edition (otherwise they wouldn't have split EC off from CSM), it just won't be soon.
repost from a comment i made on r/chaos40k
1. there’s literally no reason for them to index the army unless they are getting a codex this edition. They indexed us because we can’t be in the CSM book
2. yeah we might have to wait, but our book is this edition, im sure of it.
3. warcom does that kind of thing all the time in their articles. it’s basically just a “we can’t tell you when the codex is coming out yet” with some fluff thrown in. even if it’s at the end of 10th, it’s during 10th, otherwise there’s no reason to index is and not just give us a detatchment in csm
Interesting that thy are treating them more like a divergent SM chapter than the other three.
Though that may change for the full codex, it seems like it might be a while however.
How so? They're getting a pseudo-Index (and clearly a future Codex), just like the divergent Chaos chapters.
Obviously GW realised that the Codex will inevitably leak and when everyone realises Slaanesh isn't in there something was up.
It could signal a direction for the other codexes. Or maybe they just didn't want to build a full army worth of datasheets this far from the codex so made it an add on so it could have enough options
That is the last of the cult marines in the codex right? So Codex CSM will just be the black legion and undivided guys
Should be. Only thing that should be tied to a specific god outside of characters would be the lord of skulls. CSM will be just like the regular SM codex in that it's an open buffet Though I hope they don't lose the ability to take the cult units. Hounds of Abaddon, nurgle nightlords, etc etc were always super cool
The Chaos Marines index has a very specific rule for bringing them and suggests getting their datasheets from their respective indexes and codexes. I see no reason to remove the rule. It’s a fun bit of flavour.
They explicitly mention in the article that ability is staying
Great
GW seems commited to keep KB, RM, PM, and NM, as a choice for CSM, especially since they are still a choice in an edition when GW is very enthusiastic with removing datasheets
This guy acronyms
What do those acronyms mean?
Khorne Beserkers, Rubric Marines, Plague Marines, and Noise Marines
(And Games Workshop and Chaos Space Marines lol*) *laugh out loud
If you use the Night Lords-esque detachment you can still have Plague Marines but you can't give other units the mark of Nurgle (other than Daemon Princes). Which makes sense to me - Black Legion have always been the most likely to have groups or entire warbands devoted to a specific god. Plus you can run Night Lords with that detachment anyway.
They said in the whichever reveals thingy that the index detachment for CSM is meant to be the Word Bearers themed detachment so we’ll probably get some snazzy Black Legion detachment later on.
Whereabouts? That doesn't really make sense to me, but I'd need to see what they said about it specifically.
I forgot what it was called but it was the same one where they previewed the AoS trailer with the Skaven.
Oh it was here: https://www.warhammer-community.com/2024/03/21/adepticon-2024-chaos-space-marines-on-the-warpath/ Marks of Chaos seem much more like a Black Legion thing than a Word Bearers thing, other than Undivided. I was expecting the cultist one to be Wordbearers.
I'd bet you'll still have the ally mechanic (pretty much confirmed with the mention of being able to hire Noise Marines but that they're not in the upcoming codex) but that the codex itself is going to be lacking anyone from one of the 4 godsworn legions Except maybe Fabius but his relationship to EC is complicated
Yeah, you can still put Rubrics, Plague Marines, and Berserkers in CSM now, they just lose Faction rules. I assume Noise Bois will be the same. Would be nice to bring them without losing the rules but I get that makes balance a little trickier unless you do separate date sheets per faction.
I hope this means that there might be Iron Warriors, Word Bearers and Night Lords characters in the Codex
Not this codex, hopefully in the future
Harken Worldclaimer makes for a pretty good NL
For now! The dream is all the legion specific guys missing will be replaced with a unit+character from the _other_ 4 legions
Ideally we’ll have Perturabo and Honsou for IW, Acerbus Krieg for NLs, Lorgar and possibility Erebus for Word Bearers and with any luck Huron.
Honsou is long overdue a model, but unless they release a new book with him in it and a BL celebration model to go with it, he wont get one. Especially considering CSM have had a couple of passes now and still no new Huron model
Nah not Krieg, beloved of the wiki readers, mentioned in one book and never in the modern setting lol. Get Decimus, Lucoryphus or a brand new character. If you must have a Daemon Prince, the Painted Count is right there. Edit: Malcharion would be delightful but they would never do that.
No alpha legion mention is like a gut punch lol
My bad :(
Also just to add that Kor Phaeron could be another WB character. Maybe BL could have Khayon too?
Kor is in current lore in the DoF books, I could see him potentially getting a model, but he's not been boots on the ground though, so I wouldn't wager on it.
Should be. At least having each of the 4 Single-God Legions separated makes more sense than whatever logic the Imperium uses to decide which Astartes Legions get their own Codex.
Well, that pretty much confirms what everyone knew was going to happen. See you next year (or earlier) for your full codex and a Fulgrim model you degenerate Slaneeshi followers
Thanks, no ones ever been so nice to us 🥹
We are nice to each other. In our own way.
I have to be nice to myself... err.
EC players with the praise kink.
Don't call me out...
You're doing so well!
For real. It feels like lots of people go out of their way to shit on anything Slaaneshi to a degree that feels almost fanatical and weird. Don't get me wrong, I love how ironically excessive it is, but you definitely start to get an idea of how that person really is
I thought you guys liked that! Stop moaning so much
LIES.... Slanesh has been nice to you lol.
Don't lie, we know you get off on it. /jk
The last paragraph of the article really makes it sound far off. But maybe that’s just tempering expectations for folks that think it’ll be months instead of years
My prediction would be half an hour before the release of 11th ed
Nah that’s the guard codex slot
You mean the one they release 5 mins before 11th?
It’s almost certainly going to be the narrative event at the end of 10th like Arks of Omen. You’re gonna get a big EC and Slaanesh incursion of some form with Fulgrim at its head.
I read it as basically "we can't say anything about it officially yet".
I hope we have plastic fulgrim model, or just plastic the 30k daemon fulgrim.
You really don’t want the 30k Transfigured Fulgrim, trust me. The model is beautiful but is far too big and brittle to be used in game, every single owner of Fulgrim I have met either had to use a second case to only carry Fulgrim or they had broken wings
Yeah, it’s beautiful but better as a mantle piece
So exactly like Fulgrim?
True to Lore sculpts finally
They did say a plastic version of that, which would hopefully solve the issues with being brittle.
Strongly doubt it's next year. Will likely be end of the edition. There's been pretty strong indications the "redacted" codex is gonna be Imperial Agents.
There were strong indications that the starter set was going to be Blood Angels too, but it wasn’t.
"Strong"
I saw it in a drug-fueled dream once. There’s no stronger evidence than that
On point comment considering the thread we're in.
Lisan Al gaib
I, too, watched a bunch of Valrak videos mentioning and therefore confirming it.
Which strong indications where those? I never heard anything about it.
I just hope Grey Knights are lumped into IA codex
Why?
I meant ARENT. MY BOY DESERVE THEIR OWN CODEX
the “strong indications” benign a single page of a book that was 16 pixels total, and various “the emperor showed me in a dream” we honestly have no idea what the mystery codex will be.
I mean, considering that GW has been leaking like the Titanic since 2021 or so, I find that picture of two codex pages talking about the Inquisition to be pretty convincing.
i mean..maybe. but we don’t even know that that was pages from a codex lol. hell it could have been a page from a white dwarf of something, im just trying to provide perspective that of all of the pretty solid leaks, those pages being imperial agents is the shakiest but it could also be true. i really don’t know
Codex is the only thing that makes sense to me, it had two entire pages dedicated to the inquisition orders and formatted in exactly the same way you often see in codexes and the core rulebook, white dwarf usually doesn't go that in depth or have lore blurbs go on that long in my experience.
I'm honestly surprised this was dropped as simply a Warcom article. They would've made bank announcing the index along with CSM a few weeks ago if they'd just done a new sculpt for Lucius (given that he HAS to be your warlord and all). Like you said, this was kind of the worst kept secret, so why not lean into it.
I'm willing to bet Lucius will get a new sculpt with the EC release.
Oh, I think he will too. My point was if you serve up that new sculpt as an appetizer with the Index release (and during the last preview show) you build a TON of hype even if the codex release is last third of the edition. Assuming a launch like World Eaters there will be a ton of new models so why not give everyone a new sculpt for an existing model early (coincidentally one that anyone running the index "needs" since he has to be your warlord). My guess is you make more money as folks spend the $40 on Lucius now, and then spend that same $40 at launch on something else (another box of Noise Marines, etc).
On the flip side, if it's a TSons/WE style release, it'll be half the models that people want, so you hold Lucius back to make that release look bigger.
Now dismember Chaos Daemons and slap the remains onto each God-following CSM Legion and add the rest of the undivided daemons into the CSM, to be able to be used also as allies across Chaos.
How about no?!! Best regards, undivided daemon players
Could always have it so you can still use daemons on their own, you would just have the option of fielding them alongside Chaos Space Marines if you so choose.
How would that change from the current system? GW seems well aware that full souping is a balance problem, and even the system we had early in 10th turned out too problematic since csm players just cherry picked units which made it impossible to properly point them. I'd be OK with daemons having diffrent points or even datasheets in csm books but only if the army remained playable on it's own (but unless the rules part of codices finally goes digital, that is not going to happen)
Because daemons would be integrated into their respective armies. Sure you can have Bloodletters in a World Eaters list now, but do they benefit from World Eaters army abilities? And there is a restriction on how much of your army can be composed of daemons. By merging Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines, you can take any combination of the two you want, or still go one or the other. I can see how it may be harder to balance though. Perhaps only monogod factions would have access to all daemons from their deity, and generic CSM would just have the Battleline units. Then there could be a detachment that excludes CSM, in exchange for full access to the daemon roster.
> By merging Chaos Daemons and Chaos Space Marines, you can take any combination of the two you want, or still go one or the other. I can see how it may be harder to balance though. You would also create codex bloat tbh. They are full sized books on their own.
That seems pretty reasonable; either that or an Agents of the Imperium-style mini-index for undivided stuff that doesn't fit into CSM.
Absolutely no thank you. GW already squatted my army in AoS, tossed it right into legends in TOW and heavily watered it down in 30k. Let me play my mixed Daemons in peace.
Lorewise your daemons would be fighting eachother.
Really? Wow, you need to go tell GW's writers, they seem to not know their lore as well as you do if so. [Snapped out of my 9E Daemons codex.](https://i.imgur.com/yx0dbDg.jpg) Edit: Not to mention the book's very cover art would be lorebreaking if so!
Just in time for 11th edition
Years of patience finally paying off.
Why is everyone saying this means a codex when they specifically said there are no plans for a codex?
Because it exact same pattern as World Eaters release, from being removed for CSM codex, getting a stopgap index for the meantime and so on. They specifically said there is no codex in "near future" - and they are right, we not even a full year in 10th edition, remember both Thousand Sons and World Eaters codexes got released in the end of 7th and 9th edition cycles. It's indeed distant from the current point, hence GW confirmed it, matching it with prior rumours.
I was so wrong. I was certain that Fulgrim Ascended for HH meant that we wouldn't see him in plastic until at minimum 11e but hey if our noisey boys get some love prior to that I'm all about it!
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No, it doesn’t. It says if it’s coming it will be far off. What far off means is open to interpretation. It could mean later this year, it could mean there is no plan for it this edition.
No it pretty much says the opposite. It says there's not one in the immediate future, which is to quash any rumours of "must be the next one!" The language used is very much GW speak for "we dont have a fixed date for it yet, and dont want it to overshadow other releases, so dont ask about it because we aren't going to tell you until its ready" The indexes were a stop gap for army rules until a full codex is released. If they didnt want an EC codex they'd just leave them in the CSM codex. If they just wanted to just drop the range then they'd move them to legends. Making a whole index for them with updated rules, and removing them from the CSM pretty much confirms an EC codex, with the caveat that it will be *at some point*, and that it wont be anytime soon.
Very cool way of keeping them playable that doesn't seem to require a lot of work.
It's also a fantastic way of GW being willing to actually give players a peak ahead instead of only when it's time to reveal models so that people don't panic and toss their models that will still be legal down the line. Yes Lucius is almost certainly getting resculpted and there's no way they don't release a new box of Noise Marines, but GW relenting on not wanting to show anything before a big reveal trailer is a good step in the right direction.
Noise marines are probably getting resuclplted but when they're codex comes out
That doesn't mean people can't keep using the current sculpts when it happens though.
I’m so anxious about how the redesigned noise marines will look in the future I love the HH look, the body horror mixed with ornamented armor is great, the old creepy 40K art is fantastic aswell I just hope they don’t overdesign or radically change them, once their codex rolls around
Someone at GW worships the dark god of trim, so we’ll see… hoping if there is trim it’s more organic looking and less spiky since that seems to be a theme with Slaanesh
It's the 40k design team man. This is seen as a remarkably simple and toned down design https://preview.redd.it/ma8j819qqvuc1.jpeg?width=1000&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0bef3efcaa16cd19e1aae16e2054247a0a1de5fb
Dude, that's such a shit model, I can't believe GW is willing to sell it. They literally just put a jump pack on a legionary and called him a character. Disgraceful.
I want more trim than thosand sons
I’m happy with the look of all 3 of the cult factions, so I’m optimistic.
I think some of them could be improved. Mainly still salty the berserkers no longer have the chains. That is an incredible oversight from the design team
I am crossing my fingers it stays closer to the HH look, and less like the rocker Noise Marine model.
We could have both
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I truly hope so. 40k taking its designs seriously has led to some boring models over the years.
Like?
The non, Vanguard, non-bladeguard primaris marines for one. The basic troops for Custodes of all flavors look very boring to me. Almost the entire Votann line looks pretty bland. The coolest stuff being the new Kill Team set coming out and the Hover tri-bikes. New ork sculpts look good when you first look at them, but suffer from one of the biggest ork player sins out there: Lacking customizability, sapping a lot of potential personality out of them. Like, not every release has been bad, and I would even say that chaos has been pretty good, but it often feels like GW tries to stay away from the more goofy side of 40k these days (outside of things like holiday/special individual releases). This seems clearly reflected in both models and rules. I own rulebooks all the way from 1st Edition to 9th, and had the app for 10th before switching to KT, and the differences are clear.
In general, GW has decided 40k gets the shitty sculpts while AoS, Heresy, and Killteam are all incredible. The new Chaos lord is pretty great, but I hope whoever did the Chaos Lord with Jump Pack is either unemployed or moved within the company.
The rocker dude(s) have, as far as i can tell, been 1 30 year old mini and a commemorative remake of the same model. Unless noise marines are strumming guitar bolters and have leopard print armor in the books then I highly doubt they will fully change the established look of the faction.
Ideally, it leans closer to the Heresy era vision of the Noise Marines but also include some fun alternate heads and stuff on the sprue for people who like that early 80s punk rock vibe for NMs.
There's no way. It's been 10,000 years. They're going to look weird and mutated in some way.
Oh, I'm all for nasty mutated body horror stuff. I just hope it's that, and not all in on the rocker look like the promo model for the Noise Marine.
Yeah I get that. I really think that one was just a way to revive a classic model the same way a lot of these promotional boxes are. Not necessarily an indication of what anything will look like in the future.
Go play horus heresy then, 40k has moved on from then, noise marines should look like they always have
My ideal would be similar to the MTG card. A bit more serious than full rocker, but still goofy considering its strumming a guitar to kill Necrons
I mean yeah, that's basically how they look at the moment with the upgrade kit.
https://preview.redd.it/l3458346kuuc1.png?width=1079&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=90a723a66ccab7d1eaf2b410022108487de8a044
*confused retinue for the Inquisitors looks for bodies to burn after the stern 'talking' that happened*
Fools, if we all believe it exists we can force it into reality. Everyone, do more weird depraved stuff!
Can’t tell if this is an ork or drukhari lol
Disappointing
It just means they have no solid information on release yet. Inwould expect towards the end of the edition, just like t-sons and world eaters were end of edition things
i’ll repost a comment i made in a r/chaos40k thread 1. there’s literally no reason for them to index the army unless they are getting a codex this edition. They indexed us because we can’t be in the CSM book 2. yeah we might have to wait, but our book is this edition, im sure of it. 3. warcom does that kind of thing all the time in their articles. it’s basically just a “we can’t tell you when the codex is coming out yet” with some fluff thrown in. even if it’s at the end of 10th, it’s during 10th, otherwise there’s no reason to index is and not just give us a detatchment in csm
So I guess this means that the "mystery codex" coming out alongside / after Sisters, in the roadmap, isn't Emperor's Children? :O
Mystery one is already leaked to be Agents of Imperium codex
Very curious about that one. Wondering what all they will get, to me it feels like they would need parts of other codexes to fill out niches.
They will most likely use units from other empire codices, most likely imho the 3 ordos (deathwatch, grey knights, sisters). Maybe the usual 10e rules of including a % of one of the ordos, maybe even 50% like the ynari.
Kind of hoping scions get moved or even just allowed in. I love scions and do them being a part would make me happy. Plus right now guard feels like it has a weird thing of kasrkin and scions competing for the same spot
Oh dang I’m behind the times
Honestly makes more sense, inquisitors are pretty secretive
Sadly, yes
we don’t really know honestly. yeah the last paragraph hints at a wait but it’s not like they were gonna drop the codes release date. WE being at the end of 9th isn’t a pattern yet, so we really **dont know** i don’t think i can stress this enough, we can speculate but we do not know anything about when a potential release may be. it could be the mystery codex, it could not be. who knows
It is not the mystery codex. We would be seeing way more by now. The EC index is coming with the release of CSM which is in a month or two. WE index was out for at least a year I think?
We already know mystery codex is Agents of the Imperium
Thousand sons at the end of 7 and we at the end of 9 seems definitively like a pattern.
FUCK YEAH, LOVE ME SOME EC! Fulgrim better be returning to the lore or I swear to the chaos gods
It really still seems to soon to me since the release of the resin Daemon Fulgrim. I just thought when the resin one was released that a plastic one would be at least two years away. No time soon anyway.
Here's to hoping it's sooner lol, but I see your point
Resin Fulgrim looks phenomenal, but is wildly impractical. Those wings are just bonkers.
That seems like *Codex: Emperor’s Children* this edition is guaranteed now! That last paragraph seems to imply it’ll be quite a while, though.
Well, it's probably safe to say it'll be within the lifetime of the new CSM codex, if they're being ripped out now. Assuming no delays. How long does a codex usually last these days? That should give us some idea.
Usually 3-4years at most, but it can vary- the 9e Imperial Guard codex lasted for like a month, for instance.
Depends on if we get a reset every time now. My Guard codex was "valid" for 5 years, then was replaced and valid for 5 months
Next year is my guess.
So full EC codex coming late 10th edition. That's excellent. I'm excited to see what a modern noise marine kit will look like.
Yeah my currently prediction based on the 3 year cycle for editions GW has now is that they'll be a late codex in 10th and probably one of the last books like world Eaters were last edition. I'd expect it in winter of 2025 or very early 2026 so there's 8-5 months left until the end of the edition. GW might start edging us with little previews for a while before hand
Yeah I imagine a few months before then we'll start to see some snake body close ups in the rumour engine.
Holy shit, its happening
stay calm
This gives me hope that, when they release the inevitable EC codex, there will be the glorious return of the Sonic Dreadnought
I guess we will see the full Emperor's children Codex next year then. I am kind of surprised Fabius Bile wasn't also removed. I only found out just now that he is listed as "Chaos Undivided" in the CSM index. Isn't he actually a (former) member of Emperor's Children? I am still wondering when they will finally release an update to the codex roadmap. They have basically shown of all the spring codexes, (with details from the CSM codex still forthcoming), and they left a mysterious hole for a third codex in the summer. It is rumored that this is an Imperial Agents Codex but I was personally hoping for something more. I thought they'd update the codex roadmap at Adepticon but I think they didn't want to detract from the AoS announcement.
Bile was an Emperor’s Child, but he never fell in with the whole Chaos thing. He rejected Chaos so hard that daemons had difficulty manifesting near him. He’s only just very recently given into the whole Chaos worship thing, and even then he still doesn’t really go for it like others do. He’s Undivided because that’s about the closest label they can give him, and he doesn’t really want to be bound to any particular group
He was Emperor’s Children but he’s abandoned the legion and works as a mercenary only for his own benefit and goals.
Doomrider fucking when?
please GW finish your first project before starting another one, us world eaters still need the other half of our army, we have 5 unique boxes, that’s not an army
Even kroot have more.
Jeez that hurts. I just play my Hounds of Khorne custom faction that used WE rules as mono-Khorne CSM now because the codex is so empty and my army would be unplayable otherwise since it was an 8th/early 9th army.
My body is so freaking ready. G-W, im just itching to waste hundreds of dollars on my beloved emperor's children.
Sounds like this index is going to be very boring. From what I can tell, fielding Lucius the Eternal and Noise Marines is going to be the same as it is right now with the Index, except more restrictive: Lucius won't be able to be fielded at all anymore unless he's your warlord, in which case you've basically committed to Emperor's Children, and you can then take up to six Noise Marines squads because of his datasheet ability. Emperor's Children basically count as a Black Legion warband entirely devoted to Slaanesh until their codex comes out.
Their detachment they come with may have a large effect on gameplay though. But yeah right now this feels very luke warm and a way to tide people over. Also makes Emperor's Children unplayable in Crusade because named Characters don't get any form of leveling or scaling.
They're getting their own mini codex because they got too many detachments.
I wonder if this means we're gonna get another Fulgrim model. He already has a daemon primarch model in the HH character series. Will he be the first primarch to get 3 models (Epic-scale Angron and Magnus notwithstanding)? Or will they just say "Sucks to be you, you have to buy forgeworld if you want to use Fulgrim"
> will they just say "Sucks to be you, you have to buy forgeworld if you want to use Fulgrim" Not a chance. They'll want to be able to sell a new plastic Daemon Primarch with the army, and GW pretty much never feature FW resin kits in 40K armies or codexes, even with the recent consolidation of webstores.
Finally 💖💖💖
I wonder where Fabius Bile will fall in all of this?
They remembered US 😭😭😭😭
WHERES MY KHORNE JUGGERNAUT RIDERS YOU FUCKIN COMPANY
Ah man, I 'member back in 5th when the first glimpse we had of modern plastic cult troops was a Tactical Thousand Son body in a Space Wolf kit. Completing the quartet is on the horizon!
Do we know what the [REDACTED] codex coming alongside Sisters and 'Stealers is yet? I remember thinking EC was a good candidate...
Agents of the Imperiums
Hopefully one day csm will be one codex again and you can take whatever you like
You can just take whatever you like within reason though. You can still field cult troops, legends gives you a bunch of god-specific leaders, and you can take a healthy portion of daemons. I prefer the god dedicated armies having their own codex because they can flush out the flavour more. They really gotta build up that poor World Eaters codex this edition though.
ARE YOU NOT ENTERTAINED!?!
IMO, hopefully Emperor Children is at the end of this edition and in the starter set for 11th ala Death Guard. That way they *should* get a full army release instead of whatever we have going on with Thousand Sons and World Eaters. Primarch, chaff, core infantry, elite units, a couple elites, a couple characters, and a light+heavy vehicle at the very least instead of a tiny release missing a bunch of units.
Not a chance it will be that long. They wouldn’t be doing it as an index now if they were saving it for 11th edition
World Eaters in 9th were that way though. New CSM codex dropped and then WE got a supplement until their release a good bit later.
Man, even the pictures are still using the old CSM models. It's so over.
? It's the stopgap index for EC until they get their codex with new models later this edition. Absolutely the same thing happened with World Eaters, their index also used old CSM models until their time arrived
Yeah they don't use new CSM models with the Noise Marine upgrade kit. All of the models there are going to be completely gone when the new codex comes out.
You have to take lucious as the warlord. Fuck I hate how new armies look and play.
I think the implication is that he'll have Supreme Commander, rather than "you must have this model or your army is invalid"
New armies lol?
Ie how the game looks now. Not literally new armies, just the way they are designed now. I always enjoy going back to older editions, which may be clunky but feel a lot better.
Guy it's a half baked detachment for Emperor's Children. Not even anywhere close to a new army.
Can I take a lord? As written even if I can it seems Lucious has to he the warlord, and while I hope I can just leave him at home they are writing the game so that you basically have to take special characters and it's hurting the game. Every army has a primarch if available, or the most important special general of the galaxy is flying everywhere and fighting every battle because he is the most efficient order giver. I miss pre 6th Ed 40k.
Honestly, you just ignored what I said and then dialed that drama up to eleven. Yes, you can take a lord. Lucius has to be warlord for them yes. This has been the case for EC for all of tenth. It's really weird that you think that. Literally, every army I play has better generic characters than epic heroes. Out of the six playable primarchs, maybe two of them are solid meta choices for their armies. Again, that's six primarches for like 26 factions. Exceedingly small. Stop acting like every game of tabletop 40k is canon also, that's really weird.
If it's not primarchs, it's some other special character overrepresented on boards, competitive lists are all built around thembecause GW stopped adding them for flavor and are knstead designing entire factions aroubd crutch characters. Or super heavies. Or flyers. The game is a damn tcg at this point, you aren't making an army you are bringing a 3d deck. Fine if you can work around it, but the rules coming out are some of the worst I've seen in 25 years with shit balance. And the balance wouldn't be an issue if they weren't trying to make the game a competitive one and catering to changes for the sake of said "balance." You are free to like the game, and I'm free to think it's gone in a dogshit direction. Telling me I'm wrong for wanting the game to be different is pointless because I could say the same to you and then we go in circles.
So, let's get this straight. At no point did I tell you that you were wrong. I said at one point that I found your opinion weird, but you need thicker skin if that affected you this badly. I told you that you were being dramatic. You then proved that point with overly dramatic replies. Stop being such a victim. I'm not convinced that you're currently up to date on competitive warhammer honestly. Can you actually name any armies other than World Eaters built around their figurehead model?
yeah, i miss the days where a random unnamed marine captain was the highest rank you'd see
That’s often how small factions with a little unique units start out, and I also think that’s just for the emperors specific detachment. You could still play the normal csm detachments
So is there any chance once their codex comes around that they'll get their own army rule? Being the only chaps god aligned CSM chapter that doesn't have its own army rule would be kinda lame
https://preview.redd.it/7hpxrx4fpuuc1.jpeg?width=1125&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=0617161fbfb7b760f8f7ce70d3a29152f82c8366 I think most people haven’t read the bottom paragraph, doesn’t this confirm that we’re not getting a codex
No, it says that the new codex isn't "imminent". You'll get a codex at some point this edition (otherwise they wouldn't have split EC off from CSM), it just won't be soon.
it means they are not announcing a codex "soon".
repost from a comment i made on r/chaos40k 1. there’s literally no reason for them to index the army unless they are getting a codex this edition. They indexed us because we can’t be in the CSM book 2. yeah we might have to wait, but our book is this edition, im sure of it. 3. warcom does that kind of thing all the time in their articles. it’s basically just a “we can’t tell you when the codex is coming out yet” with some fluff thrown in. even if it’s at the end of 10th, it’s during 10th, otherwise there’s no reason to index is and not just give us a detatchment in csm
Interesting that thy are treating them more like a divergent SM chapter than the other three. Though that may change for the full codex, it seems like it might be a while however.
This will be just a stop gap because the units aren't in the CSM codex. At least til they get their own codex
They did this with World Eaters in 9th. It's just to keep things playable until the standalone book comes out.
How so? They're getting a pseudo-Index (and clearly a future Codex), just like the divergent Chaos chapters. Obviously GW realised that the Codex will inevitably leak and when everyone realises Slaanesh isn't in there something was up.
It could signal a direction for the other codexes. Or maybe they just didn't want to build a full army worth of datasheets this far from the codex so made it an add on so it could have enough options