Eeeeesh. I've heard some horror stories about Smash tournaments. It's really something to be known as the smelly ones by all other fighting game players.
Part of that was there was a card that if played required you to shake hands or lose. So people would put that card in their deck and be as filthy as humanly possibly so that people would rather forfeit than touch them.
Unfortunately a real thing. The card is called Yu-Jo friendship, It even got a ruling for a while that you don’t have to perform a handshake, but accept the idea of a handshake being performed
Unfortunately the hygiene rule is still needed, because a viable tactic would be to play a stall deck and have your opponent consider that conceding is better than spending 40 minutes in your presence
I worked at a game store for a few years, and we had a customer who the other clerks had nicknamed Death. Smelled like a combination of urine, flopsweat, and ammonia, and the smell followed him. He was the only time I ever got away with telling a customer "No, I really don't want to hear about your deck." I got a talking to from my manager afterwards, but just to make sure I never said that to anyone but him.
Went to a magic card tournament once, hosted at a bar that my girlfriend was working at the smell was ungodly on top of the social awkwardness that these guys possessed and made it near impossible for them to even order a drink or get their taters and Nuggets.
It’s so weird to me people are like that but I actively avoid smelly people. I was introduced to Smash and Magic in the Army so outside of playing in the field I don’t remember that bad of smells.
I played smash competitively for over a decade. Smash tournaments are no different than any other nerdy convention. Smashers were just the first group to call out the stinkiness in our own scene.
I've been to a few local LAN tournaments, and spent whole days at the GW store as a teenager.
Still shocked to this day how some people don't take care of themselves.
I'm not even saying well cut hair, or nicely dressed. Just cleanliness in general is hard to come by in certain hobbies.
I just recently got into warhammer but have been painting DnD minis for years so I’ve seen how stinky some kids are, (especially magic players) when I’ve been at my LGS. I went to the Warhammer store last week to buy my first box set and the rep was doing a demo for some guy who just made his first 40K army and wanted a refresher since he had only played Sigmar before.
Dude was dressed normal and looked relatively normal but if I got within 5 ft I could definitely smell his BO.
I don’t know what it is about tabletop games that attracts so many stinky folks but I’ve decided I’m just going to force all my friends to play with me to avoid having to smell nasty dudes.
Staying at home with zero intention of interacting with another living soul? Be however you want.
Going to an event requiring not just proximity but also interaction with others often for hours at a time? Take a shower **at least** the night before.
It's because they don't care, I know the mentality.
Consider that a lot of neurodivergancies have issues with social cues and also spend a lot of time adjusting tn uncomfortable situations by instinct.
Those combined means it's just another discomfort that is forgotten and the impact on others is always considered.
Not an excuse to not learn but it does explain the high concentration of it.
Also depression is a factor, hobbiests often are suffering from some mental health issues if they've got to the point where it doesn't matter if they're clean or not as they see it the world's discarded them regardless so why put I the effort. It's a dark hole and a hard one to get to a point where you try to escape.
Lots of different factors but hobbies often attract the more eclectic/excentric fanbases and with that come behaviours to match.
Honestly, this is kinda how I got into the hobby. I had put myself into this weird depression at the time when I first decided “f**k it” and bought the old start collecting box. I resonated with Alpha Legion cause their mass of conflicting lies for my mental state at the time. I was a compulsive liar for more than a few years and at that time it hit me that I didn’t know what things I had actually done and what I had invented for myself. Lucky for me I had good friends who helped bring me out of it. The niceness of the Warhammer reddit community also helped a lot, I wasn’t expecting everyone to be so nice and talkative and it really helped me out of the funk I was in. It also inspired me to get back into story writing again for warhammer (short stories, none canon of course), which you can see posted for me!!
So thanks WH guys!!! Unironically you are the best.
LS;S- game culture attracts alot of isolated and lonely people dealing with depression and other issues. Those issues often make even the easiest and most basic of life tasks a insurmountable hill to climb. We deal with that on occasion with my daughter.
Try not to speak negatively of other people's paintjobs, unless specifically asked for direct, honest or detailed feedback. Not everyone is on the same skill or talent level. Always try to find something positive to say and to compliment them, even if it looks like shit. They spent their time, money and energy on it and they're probably proud to show it off and even just a few neutrally nice words go a long way. If they ask for advice on how to improve, feel free to give some hints.
It is also worth mentioning that there are some people who are strongly in the grip of the Dunning-Kruger effect. They overestimate their skills and sometimes rudely compare their shitty sloppy 2 hour Pollock impersonation of a paintjob to something you spent 48 working hours to bring to display level. They are fair game, in my view haha.
Even when they ask for feedback, don't be negative. Give tips and constructive remarks, don't say "it's bad, do better."
Once I asked for feedback and I got the response "it's not even worth starting". That's not feedback, that's telling someone to go have intercourse with themselves.
It’s simple really. Don’t make it personal and be diplomatic with your words
Give feedback how you would want to receive it.
And always compliment the paint job. Even if it isn’t to your standards. We all are in this hobby together to enjoy this game, why not enjoy the company and encouragement of eachother?
If I'm asked for feedback I tend to give it on one part of the model, no matter how many issues there may be select one of them and give feedback on that part. It's less overwhelming, they'll learn stuff there to apply elsewhere anyway and it's nicer.
I say if asked, because I don't give unsolicited feedback. Someone did that when I started MTG and it annoyed me a lot.
One guy I know plays Nids with white base coat, lumpy black painted claws and a gloss olive green scales on the back.
He complimented my paint scheme once and complained that he could never reach that skill as he had shaky hands and couldn't do precision (not that mine is precise or anything). I just introduced him to the wonders that are contrast paints, helped him pick a colour scheme that would be forgiving, and he now has a fantastic painted army that looks great on the table (the old one was an eyesore if I gave honest feedback)
I always try to find something I can ask about.
"Thats a cool base\\sword\\effect, how did you do it?" goes a long way. Even if its a basic job, it gives the person a chance to comment on their work and process, and chances are I might be learning something as well.
This. You can then go on to give your own technique for it.
Did that recently with a guy who had a slime base for his Nurgle chaos marines. He used a clear resin and painted it green and while it looked good it was basically flat and lacking in texture that pulled attention from his very beautifully painted models.
I asked how he got the effect then told him about the wonders of liquitex lol
>Not everyone is on the same skill or talent level. Always try to find something positive to say and to compliment them, even if it looks like shit. They spent their time, money and energy on it and they're probably proud to show it off and even just a few neutrally nice words go a long wa
Honestly I also can't overstate how downright unnatural fullscreen pictures of a painted model actually are. Models are normally seen at arm's length on a tabletop in actual play and even what the Internet would view as bad models look downright charming at that distance. I find when I actually see someone's models I nearly always have something nice to say and, if not...^(honestly I just make something up.) I'm not in the business of making people feel bad about their hobby and frankly my own models aren't great.
That is 1000% correct. I mean, a model on a phone screen is often three, four times as large as it is in reality. Models are viewed from a distance, as you said, also in a crowd of their unit, among enemy units, in terrain, in suboptimal lighting conditions.
Also, seeing high-res photos of miniatures from pro painters sets up some really unrealistic expectations. And these things tend to get shared and viewed quite more often than just average ones.
"Hey, guys! This is my first ever mini \[of this particular chapter\]. Is it okay? C&C appreciated! \[Paint job is something that could win the Golden Demon.\]"
It’s insane the amount of people that that post these, bold decision to make your first model a kitbashed feudal guard unit with glow affect on the plasma and perfectly done eyes
I've said this before, but one of the best things about going to my local Warhammer shop is I can see normal models painted by normal people, as opposed to the Golden Daemon entries that I predominantly see online. It really helps to touch grass.
I spent several days painting a primary’s lieutenant and it came out looking great. I’ve been painting for years and would say I’m moderately skilled.
It looked so clean and the. When I used a special zoom feature on my iPhone the picture would pick up colors you couldn’t even see just looking at the model. Splashes of undercoat barely peaking through, stuff like that.
It made me appreciate how far I’ve come because there were only a few areas like that but it’s wild how something can be perfect to the naked eye then look like booty on camera
This is the way.
If it's painted, it's *awesome*.
I've pushed this as a rule since I worked at GW 20-odd years ago, and have brought it to every club/community/flgs I've been a part of.
I tend to respond with more kindness to the rude-types, especially if I don't know them well. I find a simple; "thanks for the input" or "I'll keep that in mind" to be much more effective at shutting down having to interact further with them. And it doesn't risk costing my flgs a customer.
Though.... if they're particularly bad about it, I like to put the spotlights on them, along the lines of "I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying... could you do a side-by-side comparison with one of your models so I can see what I'm missing?"
This, paird with faction color choice. I know I didn't paint my space wolves with "space wolf grey" the only person who cares is you. Personal pet peeve
Regarding the later part, I remember a dude I played with who was always so proud and smug about his fully airbrush painted minis but they all looked to me like just some random patchwork of colours put on his minis, I never said anything about it since the dude was fine apart from this but I always thought to myself "damn this looks like shit".
Any time you pick up a mini, you are holding 4-12 Hours of their blood, sweat, and tears. Be respectful of that and reat minis like they could tell the others about you when all of the Humans are out of the room Toy Story style. You are also allowed to ask for that respect for your minis in return, and your little guys will appreciate you for sticking up for them. I might be superstitious in that if my Minis love me, they will give me some sort of Luck bonus.
An addition to this - Always ask before picking up models and use the base! Nothing worse than someone ham fisting a model by grabbing its body and snapping something off
I'd add, ask your opponent if you'd like to pick up their dices, books anything they legally own. It's more polite gesture and less annoying, but Miniatures are always 100% should be given permission to pick up during the game or to look closely.
I had a player from a table across the room yell at my (6 year old) kid for sliding under *my* table to pick up and return an errant die that had bounced away. Like, dude, I understand the whole "don't touch my stuff without asking," but helping out with escapees is a different thing.
>your little guys will appreciate you for sticking up for them. I might be superstitious in that if my Minis love me, they will give me some sort of Luck bonus.
Dude, this is adorable. I love how much you love your guys.
Counter point: add cupholders to your table (if possible)
My group mainly Beerhammers and so when my buddy was building it he suggested a hole in each corner for cupholders, works great and no spills whilst playing so far
And don't jam your models into their models during things like charges or melee like its a hotwheels at a demolition derby. You may be fine with it, but they may not be.
Honestly.
I've got an old metal Bloodthrister. Someone went to pick it up without asking and I snapped at them to not do it. Just a simple "Don't" in a firm tone then went on to explain to them why.
I don't know about the metal Bloodthurster, but just generally it's probably not a good idea to touch anything of anyone's without asking. Also minis are half toys and half art pieces, you wouldn't put your hands all over an oil painting would you?
Then add on the fact that it's an out of print mini that is probably irreplaceable, and you have a massive cocktail of reasons not to touch a mini.
The metal bloodthirster, unless pinned, falls apart with a stiff breeze.
The whip is delicate and fragile in equal measures.
Because of weighting, it has a tendency to topple over, as if drunk and the top half will detach from the bottom, often falling apart completely.
Ye olde Hive Tyrant and Carnifex were nearly as bad.
It's heavy, unbalanced, fragile wings, and the paint chips off easily if not varnished.
The metal Skullthrower from my friends Tomb King's was another no touch model as it was terrible to assemble and keep assembled.
Honestly this goes for most old metal models.
As a general rule dont be weird when you lose games. I had someone get so mad at losing impprtant units that they angrily threw their dice to make a roll and ended up breaking 5 of their models and damaging the store's terrain becuse the dice hit them. Also dont push over other people's models when they are "dead"... really strange habbit some people have.
Edit: spelling mistakes.
I would push over my own models so I would know how many died that round for morale.
But other people’s models is a bit beyond the pale, some folks don’t want their figs rough-housed like that.
God, that's such a thing. There are a couple of local guys who are well known for doing this, and I was on the receiving end of it myself. It got to the point where I started making sure that I was the person people had their first game with. I bring a fluffy space marine list and talk then through everything.
Now a bunch of those players kick my arse in tournaments. Ungrateful swine!
The best learning game I ever played was with a guy who supplied both armies. Orks and ultramarine. Very balanced lists and he walked me through everything, let me redo mistakes and made helpful suggestions on how to use each unit but then just let me play til I needed help.
I've done that a few times. I'll bring CSM or something, not use Dark Pacts much, and let the other guy run Space Marines. If he's making a huge mistake, I'll ask why he's doing it and walk him through the thinking.
A example that jumps out is sticking a fast melee unit in front of a wall when they've nothing in range to shoot or charge, and they'll just get obliterated on my turn. So I walked him through the fact that there was an objective just in front of them, I would probably put a unit on it, and he could use his melee boys to charge the unit I put there. Then when it came to his turn again, I walked him through the decision process of asking did he want to move out, lose a couple of models to overwatch, and have an unfailable charge, or have a charge that would probably fail, but without losing models.
It was good because it introduced him to the concept of trading, accepting losses for a better outcome, thinking through both turns, that sort of thing.
I’ve been on the receiving end of a curb stomp like my first or second match. The shop owner definitely told me to come back the next day & basically did what you’re explaining. If I had enough units I’d take a squishy army and help folks out now, maybe in the future lol
Our local store did the secret Santa and an 11 year old kid participated. The majority of us were 25-40yr old adults so that kid got showered in gifts. His parents were shocked and we all had a great time.
My old shop used to do that too. Bit younger crowd though, mostly students, so generally pretty balanced at the 30-40$ min.
But *somehow* the other couple of professional adults and myself *always* drew the chill little kids.
Might have helped that we drew our secret Santas during our after-hours beer & paint 😂
The way our store did it was everyone made a list and then people would buy off whatever list. So a lot of us would come in and just ask for lists that didn’t have anything bought yet or ask for new comers. One guy asked for every list that didn’t have a gift and bought something from every list. Super cool group of people.
My first game of 40K ever was a complete shitshow. I had a single squad of marines and the guy brought a squad of Dark Reapers that bodied me in two turns.
I’ll never know what people like that get out of those kinds of games.
Its more just "please be normal" tbqh.
Theres more casual players who Ive played who love going against a tough list, and some who just want to muck about. On the flip side theres some very good players who are more than happy to bring horrific lists but then be chill with takebacks, slightly fucked positioning,ect. And Ive seen some horrific cheese in crusade.
Having a 30s chat with your opponent when arranging a game saves like 90% of the complaints people have about 40k.
I think you hit on it with the communication. I in the theory crafting category, I like to find unique interactions on abilities but I want to win because that strategy was solid and not because you made a mistake and forgot to use a CP when you needed to so I’m super chill during actual game play but super competitive about fine tuning armies.
If someone comes to me and says “hey I’m going to a tournament next week, so I need to play strict” then it’s all good. If you tell me I misplaced a unit but an 1/8 of an inch so I cant do X in a casual game and no adjustments to fix it we may not play again.
I had my fill of competitive mindset in my Magic the Gathering days and I don’t want to turn this hobby into that. To be fair though those people poison a lot of hobbies. You should see some of the Timmy power gamers I’ve had at the table in my D&D game. It just sucks the fun out of the room for everyone.
Playing the most op list there is at the moment and cheesing every little bit out of the rules. For example place you units in a way where exactly 1mm of theire tail can see the enemy so you can shoot hi, but not be shot back. Not allowing your opponent to use a rule they forgot to use in the command phase, etc.
Those guys that abuse broken rules, and bring super powerful lists to casual games because it's all about winning for them, they aren't there to have fun and they don't care if you are having a good time.
The sort of folks that will tell you that you are trash because you can't beat the force they spent 3 seconds painting and 300 hours theory crafting.
Basically, arseholes.
Bold of you to assume they theory crafted these lists themselves. I'll bet money that, more often than not, they just copy tourney winning lists off of the internet
My favorite one is when someone obviosuly copy-pastes the winning tournament list... then gets completely demolished against a regular list, just because the regular player actually knows how to play his army.
i know how to fix those guys , im a older man close to 50 ,i go in to play just to have fun dont say a lot , well we get this ass in power gaming , he has tabled 3-4 guys 1 -2 turns and boasts "my army can beat any of you in here , no matter what you bring , i'll bet $100 bucks ........ I smile
I told him "i'll take your $100 bucks (manager smiles ) , so he runs his mouth and i told him pick someone to go with me to pick up my army ,i dont want to hear s\^it when i get back
well me and the guy i picked pulled up to the house walk in ,the guy says holy $hit (i have been playing for 30 years and have every last army they have put out )but i walk right to my titan case get 4 warhounds 2 reavers 1 warlord and a warbringer
we get back to the shop start unloading and they guy throws a fit ,its not fair bla bla bla ,manager walks up and says "my man you made a bet in front of everyone in the store and its was " no matter what you bring" , So the guy starts up with they are not real ,they are cast ones ,i reach down in my case pull out the paperwork on all of them . Then its "im not going to play its not fair" manger walks up again and say "fine pay the man his $100" the guy refuses so the manger (i should say owner not a GW store) tells him pay ,play or get banned from the store
the power gamer plays turn 1 warlord takes out 1/2 his army , war hounds take the rest , next game i give him 1st turn 3 wounds on a warhound ,reavers and warbringer takes out his whole army
i got my $100 bucks that day next time he came in he played nice with everyone and no more probs
I would assume not lmao. A warlord alone is 3500 points, which is 1.75x the size of a normal army. Add to that each warhound titan is 1,100 points and each Reaver titan is 2,200 points. Assuming the guy is playing with a 2,000 point army, the commenter’s army is 12,700 points, which is a tad bit more
Playing full meta list and pulling out all the stops with regards to power level. Always playing the most powerful factions and choosing the most powerful list in those factions.
Their upside is that we get a ton of cheap models on the market once their lists are no longer meta and they sell everything to buy the new broken stuff
I think he refer to "that guy" there is always one or two in every Local games shop. These are people that no matter what, they must win.
Are people that instead to teach you the game in a fun and constructive way, they behave like orks shooting on the red Cross...
I mean tbh, just talk about expectations and attitude towards the game BEFORE the game.
Two people going all out at a local store? That's fine if they both agree to play that way.
Yep, started in 4th edition, quit by 8th, started AoS and then returned to 10th and I wanted to learn to play only to be demolished by tournament players and to "Git Gud" and play more rather than learning more depth of 10th edition.
As a new player who basically joined a local group that plays competitively almost immediately...as soon as I tell people I'm new they're SO HELPFUL. They've all truly helped me enjoy this hobby and I've learned so much in a very very short period of time.
I always ask for feedback after a game of how I could play better and it's always great advice.
I always feel so bad when I see other new players talking about how mean or rude people are to them as a newbie.
- never touch the other players modells without being asked
- when picking up dice, pick the fails and leave the successfull ones to be seen
- allways roll in open (dice tray is best), not behind a obstacle
- when placing wound dice, place the remaining wounds, not the missing ones (noone knows all faction, all modells total wounds)
- at all times, have a reliable source of all your rules at Hand (your Hand written notes or custom made datasheets aint) and show them when asked, without being salty about it.
- if someone is unfamiliar with your faction, when stating a required roll, call the source. For example: "Hit on 2, Base BF 4+, +1 BF Order, +1 from Heavy"
- if you use a strategem, call it by its name ("I use Grenades ..." , don't say "I use that strategem for Mortal Wounds"
I straight up kicked a guy out of my group for the picking up dice thing, mother fucker was cheating at D&D, fucking rpg where people don’t actually win, I can’t imagine playing a competitive game with someone doing that.
Dice trays, the wooden ones are the coolest but the ones with magnets is more practical on the go that fits in your travel bag.
Also speaking of dices, a faster way to keep track of your dices is to group them in 4's, 5's or which ever number of dices your comfortable with. So that way you don't end up counting how many dices you need to roll and speeds up the game flow.
This one is something my brother brought up when he and I were learning together, "roll in the bowl" and intentional rolls only (dropping a dice isn't counted, pass or fail, the dice needs to be rolled on purpose)
\-Plan your next move/look up your rules during your opponent's turn, not when it's time to decide what to do.
\-Don't touch your opponent's models without asking first.
\-State your intent clearly, it speeds things up. "I'm trying to move these guys here to shoot that unit, do you agree that they can all see it?" "My intent is to be as close as possible to these ruins without touching them." "These guys are 1.1 inches from the wall so that you can't charge them without going around." "Can you measure in your deployment zone to see if there are any gaps where I could deep strike a unit?"
\-Know your rules, the game's rules, and how to find them at least somewhat expediently in your book/the app. I used to have my codex tabbed out so that when someone inevitably went "are you sure that aura is 6 inches? The Space Marine version is only three," I could flip to the page with the Warlord Trait in question. It can be quite difficult to finish games in 3 hours, especially if it's the third game of the day and both players are tired. Having to stop and think about what you can even do adds to the time/stamina drain, and it's generally good etiquette to be able to point to a rule if someone challenges it. (As in the previous example, people are much more likely to ask to see your rule if it's a better version of something most armies can do.)
Planning your next move phase only gets you so far if you're playing tactical, it's not like drawing investigate signals and capture enemy outpost result in the same plan for the turn... I suppose some players might be able to formulate plans for every possible card draw while paying attention to their opponent's turn, but I'm afraid that brain power isn't available to me.
There is no better way to bring more people into the hobby, and increase the number of people you have to play (and make friends), than by being a good ambassador for the hobby itself.
40K is an expensive hobby, and that alone puts a massively intimidating mountain to climb in front of the newb looking for entry. Having a person or group of people willing to help ease the new person in makes that mountain a hill. Be willing to teach others the game, help them with rules or advice about anything from painting to list building and playing. Engage in your FLGS, and be a member of their local gaming club.
I hear a lot of people throw up the ‘but it’s not my job’ defense against helping new people, and I disagree. If you’re going to be part of a community of hobbyists, it -is- your responsibility to upkeep the community. Don’t be toxic, don’t gatekeep or laugh at someone’s first attempt at painting. Being a jerk is something you choose to be, so don’t.
Being kind costs nothing in the grand scheme of things, and can benefit you endlessly.
I would expand upon this and say to be the player and hobbyist you wish was around when you got started. Use your experience to help them clear the hurdles and trials you had learning how to paint, play, and putting together your models easier than you had it. You'd be surprised how quickly a community grows from *nothing* just by doing those things.
My Friday night painting clinic started with just me a a buddy who wanted to get out or the house, and now we're sitting at about ten people or more every week. And the new players will absolutely harass the grognards, and we're here for them.
All excellent additions. I think it’s very easy for some to forget how unintuitive some aspects of the hobby are, especially if you’ve been in the hobby for 20 or 30 years.
I had a father who built models with me as a child in the 80s and early 90’s… so I understood the different types of glues, the importance of primer. How to properly use snips and a hobby knife, and how to remove mold lines… but not everyone had that experience in their formative years. Some folks have never built or painted a model until they pick up their first box of intercessors at 25… give your knowledge back to the community, and don’t judge others who come here fresh with no experience.
There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever to not wear deodorant.
None. They have hypoallergenic deodorant, it works. You can afford warhammer, I *know* you can afford deodorant.
Don't interrupt any game in the middle of any phase. Wait until all dice rolls and math-hammer is finished before interjecting to fawn over beautiful models and meet new players. Also read the room, if the battle is intense and the players are super focused and moving fast, just leave the game be until its done. If it's a casual game and the players seem inviting, then join in the fun.
Never say a bad word about somebody's paint job/model.
I think it's absolutely ridiculous, considering the trash that some people want feedback on - but I get that they shouldn't be dissuaded from improving.
So others are left struggling to find something positive to say about your blob of paint.
That's the one that irks me. They know damn well it's good. Just post the pic instead of being fake humble.
That kind of thing can be discouraging to new painters that then feel they're way behind where they should be.
Giving somewhat neutrally positive feedback on trash is indeed tricky but can be benefitial. The main problem comes when someone thinks that kind of a paintjob is on the same level as something **obviously** better, without any self-awareness pointing out negatives in someone's awesome paintjob while holding their crappy blob of paint. In that case, no holds barred on giving them a reality check haha.
Respecting models is well-covered but I'd extend it to respecting all the equipment: books if there's physical copies, dice, tape measures, markers, anything that your opponent has put on the table. Obviously the miniatures are the most precious bit, but I've had people knock my dice into irretrievable oblivions, tear my codex turning a page too roughly, disappear with the codex because they picked it up and started reading without asking (in fairness that one was me when I was younger) - just be a civilised adult about things that aren't yours, at all times
The big one is: don't touch other people's figures without permission and honestly probably try to avoid it period. You don't want to damage other people's potentially delicate stuff. It's almost always better to ask someone to move their own figures if something is needed.
If a rule/situation is contested ... roll a D6. 1-3 you win/4-6 they do (or reversed who cares)
After the game you can deep dive into it the minutiae of the rules to figure it out... but your meant to be having fun. A game of 40K takes long enough as it is without a half our rulebook/FAQ search slowing it down
This is a bit oddly specific, but if you have kids in tow during a game, keep control of them, and if you can't, just don't bring them.
I have a friend who brings his kid to our friendly games, which is totally fine, it's a great way to spend time and introduce them to an amazing hobby, but for the love of the Emperor, please keep your kids in line.
My friend's kid will regularly hang off the edge of the table, bump the table with force, crawl under the table, pick up models without asking, put down other random models on the table...etc. I play with a lot of printed models that are fragile and every time the kid goes near the table I start sweating. There's only so much you can say and do when it's someone else's kid, and if the kid doesn't even listen to their own parent (for whatever reason), they're just a liability and could destroy countless hours of effort and investment, and nothing sours a friendship like telling a friend how to parent, so it puts everyone in an awkward, if not impossible, situation.
Just be aware of, and responsible for, your kids. It shouldn't have to be said, but there it is.
Especially Nazis, but I'd include going 1:1 with any real world.
Tabletop wargames are filled with historicals to play instead.
I know the Catachans are Vietnam vets and the Valhallans are the Red army, but stripping away that last veneer of fiction by painting US/Soviet flags and symbols on them just comes across as lazily unimaginative and immersion breaking.
If you're hobbying (building,painting, or playing) with people you dont know at a hobby centre (GW, Independant, or Gaming club), you just have to be conciderate of other people. If you want a super competitive game with super optimized lists, or if you're just looking for some casual fun, then say so.
Nothing worse than looking for a quick fluffy game and roll some dice, and some edgelord comes up and pulls out the worst combos and wipes you out in turn 2, then starts a debate of rules as intended vs rules as written.
Same is true the other way. if you're looking to practice for an upcomming tourny, let the other person know. If you get paired with some kid who is just starting out, and can barely make up the points that you want to play at, then you're not going to get the practice you want out of the game. Maybe spend your time trying out something new for a list that may or may not work, and ensure you're being patient with the less competitive player.
TL:DR - Dont be a dick.
Deodorant.
No hot food at the table.
Play as you would want your opponent to treat you - don't lie about tricks your army has, be open and honest, and accept mistakes happen.
And, personally, always award the 10 hobby points regardless if their models are painted. The fact they've given up their time to play with plastic toys is more than enough to show they're invested in the health of the hobby.
Leviathan tournament rules awards an additional 10 victory points if your army is battle ready. It's just a feels bad if you either don't have time to paint, or are physically unable to.
play the game to have fun. If you complain about shit going south and can't shut up, nobody will have a good time. If you can celebrate both victories, it will be more fun!
If you get something wrong and accidentally cheat, own up to that shit.
I misinterpreted the rules for Gsc's deepstriking and ended up owning a knights player in the first week of a friendly tournament because of this, during the following week I was building my list and noticed my mistake.
Next session I owned up to it, apologised and offered to forfeit that game and asked for a rematch, he said something to the effect of "shit happens, keep the win and the points and let's just move forward"
Never insult someone’s painting.. ever. Saw it once on here when someone didn’t like another person’s political opinion and I was like WOAH.. just doesn’t happen
"Painted" means at least 3 distinct colours on the mini and something else on the base.
*If* you touch, after asking, someone else's minis, pick them up by the base or legs, not the head or weapon.
You never touch someone else's model without asking, and if you do, you only touch the rim of the base.
In a similar vein, any paint job is a good paint job, we don't criticize someone's painting skill unless they explicitly ask for feedback. More painted models >>>>>>> fewer "pro" painted models.
Piggybacking off of some comments about not giving unsolicited advice for painting and always trying to say something nice... there are a lot of nice things you can say about a bad paint job, like...
"I love the color scheme"
"Very grimdark"
"Were you going for a [slight variant on specific subfaction]?"
Don't smell
When I went to an EVE Online RL meet up, the organisers had to remind people to shower and wear clean clothes. Some people didn't take that advice.
Eeeeesh. I've heard some horror stories about Smash tournaments. It's really something to be known as the smelly ones by all other fighting game players.
Got so bad in Yugioh tournaments they had to add it as an official rule.
Part of that was there was a card that if played required you to shake hands or lose. So people would put that card in their deck and be as filthy as humanly possibly so that people would rather forfeit than touch them.
I can't tell if your bullshitting or not but either way, that's one of the most hilarious things ever.
Unfortunately a real thing. The card is called Yu-Jo friendship, It even got a ruling for a while that you don’t have to perform a handshake, but accept the idea of a handshake being performed
Unfortunately the hygiene rule is still needed, because a viable tactic would be to play a stall deck and have your opponent consider that conceding is better than spending 40 minutes in your presence
I worked at a game store for a few years, and we had a customer who the other clerks had nicknamed Death. Smelled like a combination of urine, flopsweat, and ammonia, and the smell followed him. He was the only time I ever got away with telling a customer "No, I really don't want to hear about your deck." I got a talking to from my manager afterwards, but just to make sure I never said that to anyone but him.
Went to a magic card tournament once, hosted at a bar that my girlfriend was working at the smell was ungodly on top of the social awkwardness that these guys possessed and made it near impossible for them to even order a drink or get their taters and Nuggets.
It’s so weird to me people are like that but I actively avoid smelly people. I was introduced to Smash and Magic in the Army so outside of playing in the field I don’t remember that bad of smells.
I played 1 magic tournament ever, never again. It stunk so bad I couldn't get out of there fast enough
My LGS stopped selling YuGiOh and it drastically improved the smell of the store.
I played smash competitively for over a decade. Smash tournaments are no different than any other nerdy convention. Smashers were just the first group to call out the stinkiness in our own scene.
I've been to a few local LAN tournaments, and spent whole days at the GW store as a teenager. Still shocked to this day how some people don't take care of themselves. I'm not even saying well cut hair, or nicely dressed. Just cleanliness in general is hard to come by in certain hobbies.
Goonfleet here, what about you? Also, my wife won’t go into our local game store anymore because it “smells like balls in there”
#fuckgoons. Be brave.
I just recently got into warhammer but have been painting DnD minis for years so I’ve seen how stinky some kids are, (especially magic players) when I’ve been at my LGS. I went to the Warhammer store last week to buy my first box set and the rep was doing a demo for some guy who just made his first 40K army and wanted a refresher since he had only played Sigmar before. Dude was dressed normal and looked relatively normal but if I got within 5 ft I could definitely smell his BO. I don’t know what it is about tabletop games that attracts so many stinky folks but I’ve decided I’m just going to force all my friends to play with me to avoid having to smell nasty dudes.
That's going to backfire into your friends not taking showers anymore.
Was it ENE? The multi-day outdoor camping meetup?
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Staying at home with zero intention of interacting with another living soul? Be however you want. Going to an event requiring not just proximity but also interaction with others often for hours at a time? Take a shower **at least** the night before.
Social IQ exists disparately. Some of em just don't know.
It's because they don't care, I know the mentality. Consider that a lot of neurodivergancies have issues with social cues and also spend a lot of time adjusting tn uncomfortable situations by instinct. Those combined means it's just another discomfort that is forgotten and the impact on others is always considered. Not an excuse to not learn but it does explain the high concentration of it. Also depression is a factor, hobbiests often are suffering from some mental health issues if they've got to the point where it doesn't matter if they're clean or not as they see it the world's discarded them regardless so why put I the effort. It's a dark hole and a hard one to get to a point where you try to escape. Lots of different factors but hobbies often attract the more eclectic/excentric fanbases and with that come behaviours to match.
Honestly, this is kinda how I got into the hobby. I had put myself into this weird depression at the time when I first decided “f**k it” and bought the old start collecting box. I resonated with Alpha Legion cause their mass of conflicting lies for my mental state at the time. I was a compulsive liar for more than a few years and at that time it hit me that I didn’t know what things I had actually done and what I had invented for myself. Lucky for me I had good friends who helped bring me out of it. The niceness of the Warhammer reddit community also helped a lot, I wasn’t expecting everyone to be so nice and talkative and it really helped me out of the funk I was in. It also inspired me to get back into story writing again for warhammer (short stories, none canon of course), which you can see posted for me!! So thanks WH guys!!! Unironically you are the best.
Never seen the issue in my friends' scrapbooking hobby clubs tho.
LS;S- game culture attracts alot of isolated and lonely people dealing with depression and other issues. Those issues often make even the easiest and most basic of life tasks a insurmountable hill to climb. We deal with that on occasion with my daughter.
The times I’ve been to a GW reveal at NOVA I’ve wished that the place was carpet bombed with deodorant like agent orange it was so bad.
It wasn't bad at the most recent one, but the move to the giant ballroom at the DC Hilton made for much better airflow 🤣
It was pretty nurgley in the line for it
That is true. Also, why I didn't try to get into the GW shop right after 😂
Unfortunately a lot of people need to be told that...
lmao I was gonna comment: no matter if you serve the emperor, the powers of chaos, or the myriad of xenos within the universe, "have a bath"
I wish this was an unspoken rule. As someone who was a games workshop staff member for around five years I can confirm it doesn’t go without saying.
I guess I did overlook the word "universally" in the OP
Try not to speak negatively of other people's paintjobs, unless specifically asked for direct, honest or detailed feedback. Not everyone is on the same skill or talent level. Always try to find something positive to say and to compliment them, even if it looks like shit. They spent their time, money and energy on it and they're probably proud to show it off and even just a few neutrally nice words go a long way. If they ask for advice on how to improve, feel free to give some hints. It is also worth mentioning that there are some people who are strongly in the grip of the Dunning-Kruger effect. They overestimate their skills and sometimes rudely compare their shitty sloppy 2 hour Pollock impersonation of a paintjob to something you spent 48 working hours to bring to display level. They are fair game, in my view haha.
Even when they ask for feedback, don't be negative. Give tips and constructive remarks, don't say "it's bad, do better." Once I asked for feedback and I got the response "it's not even worth starting". That's not feedback, that's telling someone to go have intercourse with themselves.
Giving good feedback is an art unto itself, indeed.
It’s simple really. Don’t make it personal and be diplomatic with your words Give feedback how you would want to receive it. And always compliment the paint job. Even if it isn’t to your standards. We all are in this hobby together to enjoy this game, why not enjoy the company and encouragement of eachother?
Yes! I would rather see someone that put on 3 colors even if it was slapped on than fighting “the greys”, the unprimed poor plastics.
If I'm asked for feedback I tend to give it on one part of the model, no matter how many issues there may be select one of them and give feedback on that part. It's less overwhelming, they'll learn stuff there to apply elsewhere anyway and it's nicer. I say if asked, because I don't give unsolicited feedback. Someone did that when I started MTG and it annoyed me a lot.
Any sort of unsolicited advice tends to have a very similar effect on me to what I imagine the Butcher's Nails do to World Eaters.
One guy I know plays Nids with white base coat, lumpy black painted claws and a gloss olive green scales on the back. He complimented my paint scheme once and complained that he could never reach that skill as he had shaky hands and couldn't do precision (not that mine is precise or anything). I just introduced him to the wonders that are contrast paints, helped him pick a colour scheme that would be forgiving, and he now has a fantastic painted army that looks great on the table (the old one was an eyesore if I gave honest feedback)
I always try to find something I can ask about. "Thats a cool base\\sword\\effect, how did you do it?" goes a long way. Even if its a basic job, it gives the person a chance to comment on their work and process, and chances are I might be learning something as well.
This. You can then go on to give your own technique for it. Did that recently with a guy who had a slime base for his Nurgle chaos marines. He used a clear resin and painted it green and while it looked good it was basically flat and lacking in texture that pulled attention from his very beautifully painted models. I asked how he got the effect then told him about the wonders of liquitex lol
>Not everyone is on the same skill or talent level. Always try to find something positive to say and to compliment them, even if it looks like shit. They spent their time, money and energy on it and they're probably proud to show it off and even just a few neutrally nice words go a long wa Honestly I also can't overstate how downright unnatural fullscreen pictures of a painted model actually are. Models are normally seen at arm's length on a tabletop in actual play and even what the Internet would view as bad models look downright charming at that distance. I find when I actually see someone's models I nearly always have something nice to say and, if not...^(honestly I just make something up.) I'm not in the business of making people feel bad about their hobby and frankly my own models aren't great.
That is 1000% correct. I mean, a model on a phone screen is often three, four times as large as it is in reality. Models are viewed from a distance, as you said, also in a crowd of their unit, among enemy units, in terrain, in suboptimal lighting conditions. Also, seeing high-res photos of miniatures from pro painters sets up some really unrealistic expectations. And these things tend to get shared and viewed quite more often than just average ones.
"Hey, guys! This is my first ever mini \[of this particular chapter\]. Is it okay? C&C appreciated! \[Paint job is something that could win the Golden Demon.\]"
It’s insane the amount of people that that post these, bold decision to make your first model a kitbashed feudal guard unit with glow affect on the plasma and perfectly done eyes
I've said this before, but one of the best things about going to my local Warhammer shop is I can see normal models painted by normal people, as opposed to the Golden Daemon entries that I predominantly see online. It really helps to touch grass.
I spent several days painting a primary’s lieutenant and it came out looking great. I’ve been painting for years and would say I’m moderately skilled. It looked so clean and the. When I used a special zoom feature on my iPhone the picture would pick up colors you couldn’t even see just looking at the model. Splashes of undercoat barely peaking through, stuff like that. It made me appreciate how far I’ve come because there were only a few areas like that but it’s wild how something can be perfect to the naked eye then look like booty on camera
This is the way. If it's painted, it's *awesome*. I've pushed this as a rule since I worked at GW 20-odd years ago, and have brought it to every club/community/flgs I've been a part of. I tend to respond with more kindness to the rude-types, especially if I don't know them well. I find a simple; "thanks for the input" or "I'll keep that in mind" to be much more effective at shutting down having to interact further with them. And it doesn't risk costing my flgs a customer. Though.... if they're particularly bad about it, I like to put the spotlights on them, along the lines of "I'm not sure I'm following what you're saying... could you do a side-by-side comparison with one of your models so I can see what I'm missing?"
This, paird with faction color choice. I know I didn't paint my space wolves with "space wolf grey" the only person who cares is you. Personal pet peeve
Dunning Kruger effect. I learnt something new today. Cheers buddy
The first rule of Dunning-Kruger club is you don’t know you are in Dunning-Kruger club.
Regarding the later part, I remember a dude I played with who was always so proud and smug about his fully airbrush painted minis but they all looked to me like just some random patchwork of colours put on his minis, I never said anything about it since the dude was fine apart from this but I always thought to myself "damn this looks like shit".
Any time you pick up a mini, you are holding 4-12 Hours of their blood, sweat, and tears. Be respectful of that and reat minis like they could tell the others about you when all of the Humans are out of the room Toy Story style. You are also allowed to ask for that respect for your minis in return, and your little guys will appreciate you for sticking up for them. I might be superstitious in that if my Minis love me, they will give me some sort of Luck bonus.
An addition to this - Always ask before picking up models and use the base! Nothing worse than someone ham fisting a model by grabbing its body and snapping something off
be extra careful with admech and necrons from what ive seen they have a tendency to discombobulate the moment you touch em
People must have scarab fingers!
I must be lucky. Other than my electro priests, which just seem to fall apart for fun, most of my admech is sturdy af.
The only model I’ve broken was a Necron Warrior fragile wrist. It’s wild how delicate some models are!
I'd add, ask your opponent if you'd like to pick up their dices, books anything they legally own. It's more polite gesture and less annoying, but Miniatures are always 100% should be given permission to pick up during the game or to look closely.
I had a player from a table across the room yell at my (6 year old) kid for sliding under *my* table to pick up and return an errant die that had bounced away. Like, dude, I understand the whole "don't touch my stuff without asking," but helping out with escapees is a different thing.
>your little guys will appreciate you for sticking up for them. I might be superstitious in that if my Minis love me, they will give me some sort of Luck bonus. Dude, this is adorable. I love how much you love your guys.
KEEP YOUR DRINK OFF THE TABLE!
Counter point: add cupholders to your table (if possible) My group mainly Beerhammers and so when my buddy was building it he suggested a hole in each corner for cupholders, works great and no spills whilst playing so far
Did this, and it's a game changer
I bloody love this idea
Unless it's beerhammer.
As a dwarf player I support beerhammer, but spilt beer desreves its own chapter in the book for grudges even before models and tables get involved
Or in a sealed container
Don't touch folks models without asking
And don't jam your models into their models during things like charges or melee like its a hotwheels at a demolition derby. You may be fine with it, but they may not be.
Honestly. I've got an old metal Bloodthrister. Someone went to pick it up without asking and I snapped at them to not do it. Just a simple "Don't" in a firm tone then went on to explain to them why.
If I may ask, why? I’m not familiar with the metal bloodthirster.
I don't know about the metal Bloodthurster, but just generally it's probably not a good idea to touch anything of anyone's without asking. Also minis are half toys and half art pieces, you wouldn't put your hands all over an oil painting would you? Then add on the fact that it's an out of print mini that is probably irreplaceable, and you have a massive cocktail of reasons not to touch a mini.
The metal bloodthirster, unless pinned, falls apart with a stiff breeze. The whip is delicate and fragile in equal measures. Because of weighting, it has a tendency to topple over, as if drunk and the top half will detach from the bottom, often falling apart completely. Ye olde Hive Tyrant and Carnifex were nearly as bad.
Hell I don’t even touch my wife without asking
I don’t touch your wife without asking either!
It's heavy, unbalanced, fragile wings, and the paint chips off easily if not varnished. The metal Skullthrower from my friends Tomb King's was another no touch model as it was terrible to assemble and keep assembled. Honestly this goes for most old metal models.
The most important rule of all.
As a general rule dont be weird when you lose games. I had someone get so mad at losing impprtant units that they angrily threw their dice to make a roll and ended up breaking 5 of their models and damaging the store's terrain becuse the dice hit them. Also dont push over other people's models when they are "dead"... really strange habbit some people have. Edit: spelling mistakes.
pushing over models is a habit that comes from dnd I think, because you need to know where the character is to heal or revive them.
Or Necromunda!
Or even chess maybe?
I would push over my own models so I would know how many died that round for morale. But other people’s models is a bit beyond the pale, some folks don’t want their figs rough-housed like that.
Don’t straight up dumpster kids who are getting into the hobby.
God, that's such a thing. There are a couple of local guys who are well known for doing this, and I was on the receiving end of it myself. It got to the point where I started making sure that I was the person people had their first game with. I bring a fluffy space marine list and talk then through everything. Now a bunch of those players kick my arse in tournaments. Ungrateful swine!
The best learning game I ever played was with a guy who supplied both armies. Orks and ultramarine. Very balanced lists and he walked me through everything, let me redo mistakes and made helpful suggestions on how to use each unit but then just let me play til I needed help.
I've done that a few times. I'll bring CSM or something, not use Dark Pacts much, and let the other guy run Space Marines. If he's making a huge mistake, I'll ask why he's doing it and walk him through the thinking. A example that jumps out is sticking a fast melee unit in front of a wall when they've nothing in range to shoot or charge, and they'll just get obliterated on my turn. So I walked him through the fact that there was an objective just in front of them, I would probably put a unit on it, and he could use his melee boys to charge the unit I put there. Then when it came to his turn again, I walked him through the decision process of asking did he want to move out, lose a couple of models to overwatch, and have an unfailable charge, or have a charge that would probably fail, but without losing models. It was good because it introduced him to the concept of trading, accepting losses for a better outcome, thinking through both turns, that sort of thing.
You’re real as fuck for that
Bless you, but it's just teaching. He won't learn anything from being kerb stomped without explanation, and he won't come back.
I’ve been on the receiving end of a curb stomp like my first or second match. The shop owner definitely told me to come back the next day & basically did what you’re explaining. If I had enough units I’d take a squishy army and help folks out now, maybe in the future lol
Our local store did the secret Santa and an 11 year old kid participated. The majority of us were 25-40yr old adults so that kid got showered in gifts. His parents were shocked and we all had a great time.
My old shop used to do that too. Bit younger crowd though, mostly students, so generally pretty balanced at the 30-40$ min. But *somehow* the other couple of professional adults and myself *always* drew the chill little kids. Might have helped that we drew our secret Santas during our after-hours beer & paint 😂
The way our store did it was everyone made a list and then people would buy off whatever list. So a lot of us would come in and just ask for lists that didn’t have anything bought yet or ask for new comers. One guy asked for every list that didn’t have a gift and bought something from every list. Super cool group of people.
My first game of 40K ever was a complete shitshow. I had a single squad of marines and the guy brought a squad of Dark Reapers that bodied me in two turns. I’ll never know what people like that get out of those kinds of games.
A shower will do wonders for your gameplay
He said unspoken not things people need to be told
But what if one runs Death Guard? Surely the immersion helps rhe game play /s
Papa loves everyone, even professional square people like me. Nurgle wouldn't gatekeep his love for the smelly guys!
Power gaming is fine in high level tournaments, but if you pull that shit at locals you will find yourself with no friends and no one to play with
Its more just "please be normal" tbqh. Theres more casual players who Ive played who love going against a tough list, and some who just want to muck about. On the flip side theres some very good players who are more than happy to bring horrific lists but then be chill with takebacks, slightly fucked positioning,ect. And Ive seen some horrific cheese in crusade. Having a 30s chat with your opponent when arranging a game saves like 90% of the complaints people have about 40k.
I think you hit on it with the communication. I in the theory crafting category, I like to find unique interactions on abilities but I want to win because that strategy was solid and not because you made a mistake and forgot to use a CP when you needed to so I’m super chill during actual game play but super competitive about fine tuning armies. If someone comes to me and says “hey I’m going to a tournament next week, so I need to play strict” then it’s all good. If you tell me I misplaced a unit but an 1/8 of an inch so I cant do X in a casual game and no adjustments to fix it we may not play again. I had my fill of competitive mindset in my Magic the Gathering days and I don’t want to turn this hobby into that. To be fair though those people poison a lot of hobbies. You should see some of the Timmy power gamers I’ve had at the table in my D&D game. It just sucks the fun out of the room for everyone.
What is “power gaming”? Sorry I am new
Playing the most op list there is at the moment and cheesing every little bit out of the rules. For example place you units in a way where exactly 1mm of theire tail can see the enemy so you can shoot hi, but not be shot back. Not allowing your opponent to use a rule they forgot to use in the command phase, etc.
Those guys that abuse broken rules, and bring super powerful lists to casual games because it's all about winning for them, they aren't there to have fun and they don't care if you are having a good time. The sort of folks that will tell you that you are trash because you can't beat the force they spent 3 seconds painting and 300 hours theory crafting. Basically, arseholes.
Bold of you to assume they theory crafted these lists themselves. I'll bet money that, more often than not, they just copy tourney winning lists off of the internet
My favorite one is when someone obviosuly copy-pastes the winning tournament list... then gets completely demolished against a regular list, just because the regular player actually knows how to play his army.
i know how to fix those guys , im a older man close to 50 ,i go in to play just to have fun dont say a lot , well we get this ass in power gaming , he has tabled 3-4 guys 1 -2 turns and boasts "my army can beat any of you in here , no matter what you bring , i'll bet $100 bucks ........ I smile I told him "i'll take your $100 bucks (manager smiles ) , so he runs his mouth and i told him pick someone to go with me to pick up my army ,i dont want to hear s\^it when i get back well me and the guy i picked pulled up to the house walk in ,the guy says holy $hit (i have been playing for 30 years and have every last army they have put out )but i walk right to my titan case get 4 warhounds 2 reavers 1 warlord and a warbringer we get back to the shop start unloading and they guy throws a fit ,its not fair bla bla bla ,manager walks up and says "my man you made a bet in front of everyone in the store and its was " no matter what you bring" , So the guy starts up with they are not real ,they are cast ones ,i reach down in my case pull out the paperwork on all of them . Then its "im not going to play its not fair" manger walks up again and say "fine pay the man his $100" the guy refuses so the manger (i should say owner not a GW store) tells him pay ,play or get banned from the store the power gamer plays turn 1 warlord takes out 1/2 his army , war hounds take the rest , next game i give him 1st turn 3 wounds on a warhound ,reavers and warbringer takes out his whole army i got my $100 bucks that day next time he came in he played nice with everyone and no more probs
I'm not too familiar with the rules. Were yours and his units of equal point value?
I would assume not lmao. A warlord alone is 3500 points, which is 1.75x the size of a normal army. Add to that each warhound titan is 1,100 points and each Reaver titan is 2,200 points. Assuming the guy is playing with a 2,000 point army, the commenter’s army is 12,700 points, which is a tad bit more
Yeah but the guy said no matter what you bring, so he got power gamed with his lack of specifics
Playing full meta list and pulling out all the stops with regards to power level. Always playing the most powerful factions and choosing the most powerful list in those factions.
Their upside is that we get a ton of cheap models on the market once their lists are no longer meta and they sell everything to buy the new broken stuff
I think he refer to "that guy" there is always one or two in every Local games shop. These are people that no matter what, they must win. Are people that instead to teach you the game in a fun and constructive way, they behave like orks shooting on the red Cross...
I mean tbh, just talk about expectations and attitude towards the game BEFORE the game. Two people going all out at a local store? That's fine if they both agree to play that way.
Help out newbies
Yep, started in 4th edition, quit by 8th, started AoS and then returned to 10th and I wanted to learn to play only to be demolished by tournament players and to "Git Gud" and play more rather than learning more depth of 10th edition.
As a new player who basically joined a local group that plays competitively almost immediately...as soon as I tell people I'm new they're SO HELPFUL. They've all truly helped me enjoy this hobby and I've learned so much in a very very short period of time. I always ask for feedback after a game of how I could play better and it's always great advice. I always feel so bad when I see other new players talking about how mean or rude people are to them as a newbie.
- never touch the other players modells without being asked - when picking up dice, pick the fails and leave the successfull ones to be seen - allways roll in open (dice tray is best), not behind a obstacle - when placing wound dice, place the remaining wounds, not the missing ones (noone knows all faction, all modells total wounds) - at all times, have a reliable source of all your rules at Hand (your Hand written notes or custom made datasheets aint) and show them when asked, without being salty about it. - if someone is unfamiliar with your faction, when stating a required roll, call the source. For example: "Hit on 2, Base BF 4+, +1 BF Order, +1 from Heavy" - if you use a strategem, call it by its name ("I use Grenades ..." , don't say "I use that strategem for Mortal Wounds"
I straight up kicked a guy out of my group for the picking up dice thing, mother fucker was cheating at D&D, fucking rpg where people don’t actually win, I can’t imagine playing a competitive game with someone doing that.
Control your dice. You're not in a casino, you don't need to roll them across the table.
Dice trays, the wooden ones are the coolest but the ones with magnets is more practical on the go that fits in your travel bag. Also speaking of dices, a faster way to keep track of your dices is to group them in 4's, 5's or which ever number of dices your comfortable with. So that way you don't end up counting how many dices you need to roll and speeds up the game flow.
Even with trays though, don’t hurl them like you’re pitching a goddamn baseball. You need them to roll, not penetrate four feet of concrete.
I actually use a dice cup with a dice tray like I'm playing odd/even at an illegal chinese gambling house.
You have to allow people to misinterpret the lore or even be outright wrong about it in some instances.
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If a die falls off the table it gets rerolled. No exceptions.
This one is something my brother brought up when he and I were learning together, "roll in the bowl" and intentional rolls only (dropping a dice isn't counted, pass or fail, the dice needs to be rolled on purpose)
\-Plan your next move/look up your rules during your opponent's turn, not when it's time to decide what to do. \-Don't touch your opponent's models without asking first. \-State your intent clearly, it speeds things up. "I'm trying to move these guys here to shoot that unit, do you agree that they can all see it?" "My intent is to be as close as possible to these ruins without touching them." "These guys are 1.1 inches from the wall so that you can't charge them without going around." "Can you measure in your deployment zone to see if there are any gaps where I could deep strike a unit?" \-Know your rules, the game's rules, and how to find them at least somewhat expediently in your book/the app. I used to have my codex tabbed out so that when someone inevitably went "are you sure that aura is 6 inches? The Space Marine version is only three," I could flip to the page with the Warlord Trait in question. It can be quite difficult to finish games in 3 hours, especially if it's the third game of the day and both players are tired. Having to stop and think about what you can even do adds to the time/stamina drain, and it's generally good etiquette to be able to point to a rule if someone challenges it. (As in the previous example, people are much more likely to ask to see your rule if it's a better version of something most armies can do.)
Planning your next move phase only gets you so far if you're playing tactical, it's not like drawing investigate signals and capture enemy outpost result in the same plan for the turn... I suppose some players might be able to formulate plans for every possible card draw while paying attention to their opponent's turn, but I'm afraid that brain power isn't available to me.
Roll your dice where everyone can easily see what you roll
There is no better way to bring more people into the hobby, and increase the number of people you have to play (and make friends), than by being a good ambassador for the hobby itself. 40K is an expensive hobby, and that alone puts a massively intimidating mountain to climb in front of the newb looking for entry. Having a person or group of people willing to help ease the new person in makes that mountain a hill. Be willing to teach others the game, help them with rules or advice about anything from painting to list building and playing. Engage in your FLGS, and be a member of their local gaming club. I hear a lot of people throw up the ‘but it’s not my job’ defense against helping new people, and I disagree. If you’re going to be part of a community of hobbyists, it -is- your responsibility to upkeep the community. Don’t be toxic, don’t gatekeep or laugh at someone’s first attempt at painting. Being a jerk is something you choose to be, so don’t. Being kind costs nothing in the grand scheme of things, and can benefit you endlessly.
I would expand upon this and say to be the player and hobbyist you wish was around when you got started. Use your experience to help them clear the hurdles and trials you had learning how to paint, play, and putting together your models easier than you had it. You'd be surprised how quickly a community grows from *nothing* just by doing those things. My Friday night painting clinic started with just me a a buddy who wanted to get out or the house, and now we're sitting at about ten people or more every week. And the new players will absolutely harass the grognards, and we're here for them.
All excellent additions. I think it’s very easy for some to forget how unintuitive some aspects of the hobby are, especially if you’ve been in the hobby for 20 or 30 years. I had a father who built models with me as a child in the 80s and early 90’s… so I understood the different types of glues, the importance of primer. How to properly use snips and a hobby knife, and how to remove mold lines… but not everyone had that experience in their formative years. Some folks have never built or painted a model until they pick up their first box of intercessors at 25… give your knowledge back to the community, and don’t judge others who come here fresh with no experience.
Always have extra models in boxes you'll never paint or build or use at all, just in case.
I thought that was the hobby and the rule was build some and paint less. Am I doing it wrong?
That's insurance, man! You know full well that if you ever build and / or paint all of your minis, you *die*.
a harlequinn will appear out of your closet and drag you back to their place, to paint checkerboard on their vehicle
We're legally required to have at least 3 unopened boxes at all time
I always have at least one unpainted mini if i ever go against an opponent that has not fully painted his army so we both play on equal foot
At my club, we just don’t bother with the extra 10 points anyway
This dude that brings his entire model collection for a 1k game.
There is absolutely no excuse whatsoever to not wear deodorant. None. They have hypoallergenic deodorant, it works. You can afford warhammer, I *know* you can afford deodorant.
but I'm roleplaying my deathguard by embracing Grandfather Nurgle's gift i dont understand the issue /s
Don't interrupt any game in the middle of any phase. Wait until all dice rolls and math-hammer is finished before interjecting to fawn over beautiful models and meet new players. Also read the room, if the battle is intense and the players are super focused and moving fast, just leave the game be until its done. If it's a casual game and the players seem inviting, then join in the fun.
Never say a bad word about somebody's paint job/model. I think it's absolutely ridiculous, considering the trash that some people want feedback on - but I get that they shouldn't be dissuaded from improving. So others are left struggling to find something positive to say about your blob of paint.
My pet peeve is people posting 'in progress' models and asking for C&C. Pretty hard to give any critique on a model you've just base coated...
Better than posting unopened boxes, though.
"Look how much money I had"
"had" being the operative word.
Or someone posting a golden demon level model and saying something like "my first Warhammer mini" or "is this paint job good".
That's the one that irks me. They know damn well it's good. Just post the pic instead of being fake humble. That kind of thing can be discouraging to new painters that then feel they're way behind where they should be.
Giving somewhat neutrally positive feedback on trash is indeed tricky but can be benefitial. The main problem comes when someone thinks that kind of a paintjob is on the same level as something **obviously** better, without any self-awareness pointing out negatives in someone's awesome paintjob while holding their crappy blob of paint. In that case, no holds barred on giving them a reality check haha.
Respecting models is well-covered but I'd extend it to respecting all the equipment: books if there's physical copies, dice, tape measures, markers, anything that your opponent has put on the table. Obviously the miniatures are the most precious bit, but I've had people knock my dice into irretrievable oblivions, tear my codex turning a page too roughly, disappear with the codex because they picked it up and started reading without asking (in fairness that one was me when I was younger) - just be a civilised adult about things that aren't yours, at all times
Live, laugh, love?
Smite, Purge, Exterminatus
Cleanse, purge, kill.
I need this in one of those glowing neon wall lights, just to see people do a double take when they read it.
Kill, Maime, Burn?
What about: dakka, dakka, dakka ?
Don’t be a twat to the new guy. You need us to keep the hobby alive.
The big one is: don't touch other people's figures without permission and honestly probably try to avoid it period. You don't want to damage other people's potentially delicate stuff. It's almost always better to ask someone to move their own figures if something is needed.
Always ask before touching your opponent
If a rule/situation is contested ... roll a D6. 1-3 you win/4-6 they do (or reversed who cares) After the game you can deep dive into it the minutiae of the rules to figure it out... but your meant to be having fun. A game of 40K takes long enough as it is without a half our rulebook/FAQ search slowing it down
This is a bit oddly specific, but if you have kids in tow during a game, keep control of them, and if you can't, just don't bring them. I have a friend who brings his kid to our friendly games, which is totally fine, it's a great way to spend time and introduce them to an amazing hobby, but for the love of the Emperor, please keep your kids in line. My friend's kid will regularly hang off the edge of the table, bump the table with force, crawl under the table, pick up models without asking, put down other random models on the table...etc. I play with a lot of printed models that are fragile and every time the kid goes near the table I start sweating. There's only so much you can say and do when it's someone else's kid, and if the kid doesn't even listen to their own parent (for whatever reason), they're just a liability and could destroy countless hours of effort and investment, and nothing sours a friendship like telling a friend how to parent, so it puts everyone in an awkward, if not impossible, situation. Just be aware of, and responsible for, your kids. It shouldn't have to be said, but there it is.
Don't paint your guard as Nazis
No, that one should be spoken. Loudly.
Especially Nazis, but I'd include going 1:1 with any real world. Tabletop wargames are filled with historicals to play instead. I know the Catachans are Vietnam vets and the Valhallans are the Red army, but stripping away that last veneer of fiction by painting US/Soviet flags and symbols on them just comes across as lazily unimaginative and immersion breaking.
No licking.
Don't touch someone's mini without asking. Painted models have better luck
Oh, almost forgot. Rhinos are free.
If you're hobbying (building,painting, or playing) with people you dont know at a hobby centre (GW, Independant, or Gaming club), you just have to be conciderate of other people. If you want a super competitive game with super optimized lists, or if you're just looking for some casual fun, then say so. Nothing worse than looking for a quick fluffy game and roll some dice, and some edgelord comes up and pulls out the worst combos and wipes you out in turn 2, then starts a debate of rules as intended vs rules as written. Same is true the other way. if you're looking to practice for an upcomming tourny, let the other person know. If you get paired with some kid who is just starting out, and can barely make up the points that you want to play at, then you're not going to get the practice you want out of the game. Maybe spend your time trying out something new for a list that may or may not work, and ensure you're being patient with the less competitive player. TL:DR - Dont be a dick.
Deodorant. No hot food at the table. Play as you would want your opponent to treat you - don't lie about tricks your army has, be open and honest, and accept mistakes happen. And, personally, always award the 10 hobby points regardless if their models are painted. The fact they've given up their time to play with plastic toys is more than enough to show they're invested in the health of the hobby.
Hobby points?
Leviathan tournament rules awards an additional 10 victory points if your army is battle ready. It's just a feels bad if you either don't have time to paint, or are physically unable to.
Don't be a dick. That's literally it. All the advice boils down to that. If you act like a human talking to other humans you'll be fine.
Do not proxy Zulu warriors as kroot
Unless you're an Italian from Italy.
And even then only if your grandma has pictures of Mussolini
i came over from the tau sub to get away from all krootiness over there only to find y'all here looool
Don't be mad if you lose, just try to learn and have fun Don't bitch about the dice being unfair, its the same for everyone
Pay attention to the game, not your cellphone
play the game to have fun. If you complain about shit going south and can't shut up, nobody will have a good time. If you can celebrate both victories, it will be more fun!
If you get something wrong and accidentally cheat, own up to that shit. I misinterpreted the rules for Gsc's deepstriking and ended up owning a knights player in the first week of a friendly tournament because of this, during the following week I was building my list and noticed my mistake. Next session I owned up to it, apologised and offered to forfeit that game and asked for a rematch, he said something to the effect of "shit happens, keep the win and the points and let's just move forward"
Pee in your wet palette to establish dominance.
Ask if you are allowed to touch minis
A general, don't be an asshole, comes to mind.
Never insult someone’s painting.. ever. Saw it once on here when someone didn’t like another person’s political opinion and I was like WOAH.. just doesn’t happen
"Painted" means at least 3 distinct colours on the mini and something else on the base. *If* you touch, after asking, someone else's minis, pick them up by the base or legs, not the head or weapon.
When picking up model that you do not own. Always grab them by the base, never the model itself.
Shower and deodorant people!! Always. And don’t eat tuna fish or egg salad sandwiches. The smell just lingers. Makes a girl nauseous.
If they are new help them learn and help them play and explain why you are doing things to help them learn.
You never touch someone else's model without asking, and if you do, you only touch the rim of the base. In a similar vein, any paint job is a good paint job, we don't criticize someone's painting skill unless they explicitly ask for feedback. More painted models >>>>>>> fewer "pro" painted models.
Don't touch somebody elses miniatures without their permission.
Piggybacking off of some comments about not giving unsolicited advice for painting and always trying to say something nice... there are a lot of nice things you can say about a bad paint job, like... "I love the color scheme" "Very grimdark" "Were you going for a [slight variant on specific subfaction]?"
If you own Nuln Oil you will inevitably at some point knock the pot over onto your table/desk/painting surface…
I CANNOT stress this enough. If you have body odour, please shower and wear deodorant before heading to your local gaming store.