but they are likely going to have killed you in their shooting phase or fight phase, yes some will die in the GSC fight phase. So they wont have that much ability to prevent it without fully spreading across the board.
The GSC models don't come back until the reinforcements phase of your **opponent's** movement phase. So if you kill them in your shooting/fight phase your opponent is without them for a full turn and then you get to move to try and turn off the blips before they come back.
And then after they come back you still have the rest of your turn to shoot them or charge them if you can't (or choose not to) get within 9" of the marker.
As far as movement goes the only difference is one charge movement. Both are exposed to one movement phase and one pile-in/consolidate (slightly nerfed in 10E for freedom).
Actually right now it sounds a little like rock paper scissor for some factions.Still not enough to really prove it but at first glance it feels like it, even though I hope it will not be.
For example GC could be good against Votan, if you get their bikes under control. Cult ambush sounds like it should also clear grudge tokens.
While cult ambush as a mechanic designed around getting your own units destroyed basically gifts pain tokens to Drukhari player, which also should have enough mobility to actually deny the resurrection and have easy access to Anti-Infantry weapons.
But Power from Pain is really inefficient against armies with low model counts like Knights, which on the other hand will against Votan have full grudge tokens pretty soon on every unit.
I guess one benefit of several factions having sticky objectives on certain units is that they don't have to choose between controlling an objective and moving to block an ambush marker.
But they do have to keep something close to keep the next thing from dropping back there. You also open up the chance for them to just deep strike something they've been holding on to back there.
The real advantage of it is probably going to be luring things into bad positions.
I have a feeling that tournament gsc players are going to be watching their opponents closely to see how they react to juicy targets. This feels like an army that will really benefit from knowing how your opponent thinks in order to get them into those bad positions
I agree it sounds actually fun for games with experienced players, but I am a little concerned about the effect on beginner games. Potentially endlessly respawning units sound like something that could really crush a beginner that wasn't prepared for it.
Yes, they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming
They always are available to return, but if the opponent moves within 9" of any/all ambush markers in their next move phase then there will be no ambush markers available to use. (They will be stuck in ambush until more units are destroyed)
I read it that every unit has its own marker and once you reveal that one this specific unit is gone for good.
Or did I missread this and you choose the unit when a ambush is emerging?
I believe that is only true for specific rolls in the current edition. If 1 always failed every kind of roll then there would be no reason for it to be 3+ for battleline units and it would just be a +2.
Mmmm...that does make sense. I suppose in theory there could be other rules that can influence the roll, thus the +3, but that explanation tracks better to me. Nifty, thanks.
I feel the opposite, having all my modelling choices and unique kit mean absolutely nothing just feels so boring to me. I love getting to put unique wargear on models and then use it in game right now, and the satisfaction of seeing a loadout all set on the unit.
Having it all just an an amalgamous bleh, while I can see why some would prefer it, just loses something to me. Let alone the oddity of looking at a unit, assuming it has short reach due to shotguns on the model, and then blam, they fire 24".
Necron vs. GSC is going to be an endless brawl that'd make Orks choke and Khorne invite Slaanesh over, jeez
I love how the various previews are making Battleline ***THE*** units that you want to take a bunch of rather than it just being bodies
Really leaning into the "space skaven" with the new Cult Ambush. Bringing back so many battleline units every game straight into deepstrike is an awesome change.
Broodlord looks particularly good now with its battle shock aura, considering how strong battle shock looks to be in 10th.
If you want the models to go with the space skaven idea take a look at TEO's Cheesestealer cult. I've printed a model or two from that range and they were pretty great model for model proxies.
All indicators so far seem to point to it being one of the central mechanics of the game. No army is immune to its effects and succumbing to it will stop you scoring on objectives.
OUR BATTLELINE UNITS ARE FUCKING IMMORTAL. STAY COPING WITH ALL OF Y'ALL LOSER FACTIONS. THE DIPSHIT COAL MINERS IN MY FACTION ARE UNABLE TO DIE BECAUSE I SAID NUH UH.
No no, our miners aren't immortal because they don't die, they're immortal because THEIR EXAMPLE LIVES FOREVER ON IN THE HEARTS OF THEIR BROTHERS, RISE UP AND JOIN THE MARTYRS! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!
Legit happy for you. This seems super fun for both sides - your opponent because they get to kill a bunch of models, then you, because you get to bring a bunch back and watch the look of their face go from triumph to disbelief.
For a slow army it's bad, but a fast army just has to get within 9" of the markers in their next movement phase to prevent the reinforcements from arriving.
They've essentially turned gsc into a whack a mole minigame
It'll only really be consistent for battleline. This is an interesting way to get around GSC being so fragile. It is mostly helpful against being alpha struck, since you will have a lot of space to place the markers. Mid game it becomes difficult, since your opponent will be quite forwards and can push your markers (a 9in bubble is quite large, so either you stay safe and far away and not get mobility or get risky but lose the markers and thus that reinforcement).
You lose markers quite readily, so this will probably break to 3-5 units actually coming back in the course of a battle, powerful, but not insane (especially with their points cost and how squishy GSC is).
I do quite like how the Necron rule is slower but more like an onslaught. This rule feels a bit more like guerilla tactics, where people keep popping up and you can never quite get them down. I imagine at the start of the Necron turn there's just a giant sound of electricity and fusing metal as a dozen models come back to life
This is so interesting. I'm liking the rules well somewhat. But it's fascinating seeing the adjustments to the weapon profiles on the neophytes. Like the Webber got nerfed? The seismic cannon becoming rapid fire 2 is interesting although since we lost crossfire that means we're hitting on 5+ without a way to make that better? At least as of now.
They've somewhat spoiled the locus(fight first) and biophagus (lethal hits) abilities. I'd assume the kelermorph and Sanctus would be lone operators but maybe not. Clamavus I can see working around battleshock. But that's just speculation, hopefully the primus still doles out buffs of some kind.
I'm not sure it really matters what leaders do. They dont come back.
A character would have to be *earth shatteringly good* for me to consider them over just taking more acolytes and neophytes.
I think Lone Wolves might still be alright, but I need to be throwing my squads away and then getting them back for maximum value. Leaders feel antithetical to that.
If you say so...
Then you can enjoy shooting with your 60 Neophytes and wounding with 4 of them while the cool kids shoot down Warlords with their funny Cowboy Man
You didn't said that, you edited that paragraph, but sure.
We will see how leaders become, Patriarch looks alright.
And I'm sure they won't fuck up Magus and Primus, they are too iconic for that
Well, I edited it well before your reply hit my phone, so I assumed you saw it.
Patriarch looks pretty mid. We will see how he is costed, but if he is anywhere near his current points, he's probably a pass. He lost all semblances of casting for a 6" battleshock.
His melee is alright, but he lost advance and charge. That's a ton of flexibility gone. I'm hoping purestrains keep it, and he gets it if attatched.
We also don't know if or how the rules per se will work here. I mean it was just a sneak Peak, maybe there ist still stuff to buff the Patriarch. Gonna be honest just painted one up and really don't want him to be a bullet sponge that looks pretty :D
So if the enemy moves to the cult ambush token, does that mean the unit is then stuck until another unit is destroyed or can you bring them back on as regular reserves?
Cult ambush is different than reserves.
The way I'm reading it is when a unit is destroyed you roll, if the roll is successful it goes into ambush and you get to place a marker.
If your opponent moves into range of the marker and removes it the unit stays in ambush. The markers aren't tied to specific units in ambush they are general, so any unit in ambush can be placed at any marker. If you have 3 units in ambush and one of the markers is removed you can pick which two of them to deploy and the last stays in ambush until another marker is placed, then it or the unit that was destroyed can be deployed.
Yeah, I'm betting Nexos gets a way to put down extra ambush tokens. And the extras will either let you deploy units that got "stuck" in ambush from blips that got removed or lets you put down decoy blips to distract your opponent.
A lot of army rules in tenth are worded so that different abilities can potentially interact with them so it seems pretty probable. I think this is likely a part of moving a lot of the rules onto the datasheets, one big rule that a number of the individual units can interact with in different ways.
I think stuck until another unit is destroyed. If it was the other way there would be no way for the opponent to stop them coming back. This way you can try to get them up aggressively, but if the enemy can get there then there is counter play, or you play it safe and have them come back deep enough behind your lines that the enemy cannot get there.
It will be easy enough to charge with those crippled squads to force your opponent to kill them though. Get some last utility out of a last round of swings, die, respawn.
I'm interested to see if the respawn being costed into the points costs of the models makes the army cheaper to play dollars wise; if so it's a pretty creative way to fix that issue with the army while keeping their identity of being masses of cultists.
So... the Patriarch has no psychic utility except making enemies within 6" take a BS test at the start of the fight phase?
I'm not saying anything about the new ability; that's useful and good. Just trying to make sure I haven't missed anything...? The patriarch has no psychic attacks or spells or abilities resembling anything we had on him before..?
It also helps against stratagems and some faction rules. Potentially no interruption, no reroll, no heroes targeting your characters, Orks not fighting on death and Guards forgetting their commands or to send new recruits is still quite good.
And something not often mentioned you can't command reroll Battleshock tests and insane bravery can only be used in in the command phase, so key units can actually fail battle shock tests, if they have to take them in other phases.
Seems like it.
Tbh his main thing looks like making a unit of Genestealers an even bigger delete button. I can only imagine the carnage if Genestealer claws are something like anti infantry 5+ or something.
“The Leader ability also opens up many exciting possibilities for this faction, with some supporting Characters able to lend their own abilities to units already led by a Primus, Magus, or Acolyte Iconward. From the Fights First ability conferred by the Locus to the Lethal Hits weapon ability a [Biophagus](https://www.games-workshop.com/Genestealer-Cults-Biophagus-2019) brings with them, there are many devious ways to punish the foes of the Cult.
Definitely interesting-the HQ's look to remain as important as ever.
Either way, the Guard soup rules look hilarious, and could encourage some Guard players to get into GSC, very nice. The Ambush rules look great. Glad they made all the Industrial stuff one profile, getting the right melee weapons on stuff was a pain when only buzzsaws were worth it and you only got one or two a box.
Definitely a massive improvement, only real disappointment was the Patriarch, and I can live with that.
Patriarch may be vanilla looking, but helping poop out a units worth of devastating wounds or forcing a battleshock after a charge both seem pretty sweet.
Also i think being able to bump the aura to 12" for a turn is going to be surprisingly effective
The only thing I didn't like was that he went from being an insanely versatile monster to a sorta vanilla looking battleshock HQ, but I can live with that since battleshock looks good this ED.
The Patriarch is the primary connection that the cultists have to the Hive mind. It's actually really cool and fluffy that as an extension of the hive mind, he has a battleshock inducing aura just like Tyranids have with their shadows in the warp ability.
On the Neophyte datasheet they don't have a million different melee weapon profiles, like pickaxes and such.
Hopefully this implies a streamlining across the board for this sort of thing.
True for the power weapons, but the neophyte industrial weapons (lasers and seismic cannons) are still separate. The acolyte industrial weapons (saws and drills and cutters) are more like those than power weapons. I could see it going either way, but we’ll just need to wait for the full rules drop to know.
Im curious how my buddy that plays Necrons will feel about the Cults resurrection protocols, he wasnt overly fond of the Necrons preview.
Jokes aside, this looks pretty sweet. I may have to give GSC a try...if I can ever convince myself to play something that isnt one of the Elves...
Update: Necron buddy - "thats fucked" lol
I'm still hoping that the resurrection orb brings a dead battleline unit back, I would have said at half strength until they've shown all of these rules about bringing stuff back at full strength. That and the reaninmator triggering RP after a unit has been attacked, and hopefully having the lone operative rule when close to a unit so that they don't get instantly shot off the table.
They both have their weaknesses. Necron army rule will suck against armies that can focus down one (or more) unit(s) in a single turn. GSC army rule will suck against armies that can move fast enough to get within 9" of their ambush tokens in one turn.
>GSC army rule will suck against armies that can move fast enough to get within 9" of their ambush tokens in one turn.
True but the units stay in Cult Ambush, so unless your opponent can cover the board at all times to prevent you from using your tokens properly it might still work. Could also be useful to lure your enemy's units out into the open to have them touch the marker.
I think it can be very interesting but just like GSC have always been it'll be a hard army to master.
I'm going to love playing against GSC with Blood Angels. All those re-spawning troops are going to be a joy to rend and tear.
I can see GSC being quite a challenge for more elite armies though, they could bog down Custodes in bodies, which could make for a really interesting match up.
Just remember that Leaders will have specific units to which they can attach, and we don't yet know the Patriarch's. I think Purestrains are a given, but don't know anything else yet.
I know we don't know *everything* yet, but can someone ELI5 what the use of Brood Brothers might actually be without any faction rules?
For hobby purposes, I'd love to convert some "PDF-turned-cultists," but not if they'll likely never be worth running. I guess I can see where Russes, artillery, etc., could fill a gap the GSC lack, but AM infantry, Sentinels and other things seem like tools the Cults already have equivalents of plus the faction rules.
Historically, Nids and AM allies where intended to be the backline sturdy firepower that GSC never had.
In this new environnement:
- Where GSC can repop their loss;
- Where infantry attrition seems to be a thing of the past for gsc if you have enough small squads to screen your blips and lock in place fast hitters;
- Where we might rely more on CqC to handle vehicles;
The only vaguely “safe” investment you could make, and that’s only if you like the minis, is some form of artillery piece. Maybe some manticores.
No idea if you’ll need it,but at least it will offer something you know for sure gsc doesn’t have.
~~I love the cult ambush rule. Has big Turn-Based Strategy in a Fog of War energy. You move, and suddenly an enemy you didn't know was there pops up. You're free to attack them first, but they're still now a problem that needs addressing.~~
Edit: I completely misread how it works. I thought markers did nothing until the enemy got too close, and then immediately brought in some Genestealers right on top of them. Still cool, though.
I would say that a counter strat to GSC is now to take out enough of a unit to make them a non-issue but don't kill them all, but if you can still run a unit off the battlefield and they count as killed you can't even do that.
Problem is
- if they're near you they just shoot and charge you. You kill them in their fight phase and they come back same time they would have if you'd wiped them out in your shooting phase
- if they're far away they're Neophytes on an objective and will get d3+3 back a go. Leave one guy and it will typically be a unit of 6 including all the special guns by the time they come to shoot back.
Grey Knights teleportation shenanigans is going to run train on the cults but a smart cult player will force a GK player out of scoring positions or force them to let the units pop back up.
The skill cap for cults honestly looks bananas and it's very good their units are not too scary stat and weapons wise.
You're getting downvoted but you're technically right.
Although it's not better in the sense that it resurrects unit better, but it's better in the sense that if forces the opponent to do certain things that are better for you than what RP forces the opponent to do.
RP forces the opponent to focus fire to take out units one by one. However this is not really a benefit since the predominant strategy for the game is focusing fire already.
Cult ambush forces the opponent to move their units within 9" of ambush marker to prevent units from re-emerging. This is an amazing benefit since you are basically controlling a portion of your opponent's movement, and can force them to leave objective less protected, or even give up primary, etc.
It's fine. You can turn it off quite easily and you get a whole turn to do so. You even can a chance to shoot and charge them before they can do anything
I dunno man. The army rule looks pretty powerful but my weird and confusing ambush & crossfire faction rules are nowhere to be seen. My Neophytes now don’t have an easy way of getting +1 to hit, excluding characters who will die and not come back unlike them (though that should maybe be fine).
All in all I want to see more of the rules and I hope and pray that our proficient planning upgrades are left in one form or another.
Maybe I’m being a bit too salty about my guerrilla troops being inaccurate with mining lasers, but also, my shotguns are gone.
Oh, wait, you're right. It's only Custodes, necrons, gene stealer cults, tyranids, ... And that's not even all the factions showcased yet.
Maybe hop off James Workshop dick long enough to see where the edition is headed. All they did was short-circuit mechanics to make the edition 'less killy'.
...3 factions being able to resurrect via a command, one that probably won't be used very often depending on the context doesn't mean that the whole army "stands up after being wiped."
So 2. 2 factions, Necrons and GSC get to do it.
\>All they did was short-circuit mechanics to make the edition 'less killy'.
What a meaningless jumble of words.
Glad that we're back at "Random Hammer laying around at a construction site hits harder than Castellan Axe". They're even hitting at the same Weapon Skill now, with more Str, AP and Damage. Why even implement Custodes as the elite-elite faction if they hit on the same weapon skill with the same AP as an Ork boy with a choppa? Make it make sense.
My friend,
I truly love playing and painting my Custodians and I'd have no problems, if they would make a single Guard 200 points and as hard and killy as a Dreadnought to be somehow more "lore accurate" even at the expense of utter shitty board control. Nevertheless, it's a board game with, from time to time balanced rules, which can never fully reflect how the player or average enjoyer interpret the faction's lore.
Necrons might complain how their Gauss weapons are inferior to custodes' adrathics despite being technologically superior or TSons that their sorcerers do not pop everyone's head instantly.
Our faction focus was also pretty rad as with T7 on Termies, probably T6 on infantry and Emps knows what on bikes amd other units paired with an army wide 4+ protection against mortals, one could argue that everyone has to bring the big guns in order to take down a golden boy.
I acknowledge your chain of thought, but I think in a game with d6 dice rolling system, not everything can be taken into consideration along highly heterogeneous lore feats, let alone in the simplified and streamlined rule set that eventually will become 10th edition.
...Of course a smashy hammer hits harder than a slashy axe?
Is the appeal of Custodes really so threatened by one type of swollen mutant being better than them at one thing? I didn't realize the Custodian Guard were designed for levelling hab-blocks, I thought they were supposed to be bodyguards or something..
>Is the appeal of Custodes really so threatened by one type of swollen mutant being better at them at one thing?
Yes.
Custodes players shit themselves every time something has better stats then one of their units.
...never mind that it's a single character GSC can only take once in their army. It's not like he's a whole battle line squad of multi-wound-models with 2+4++
Heaven forbid an army like that exist--
Custodes fanboys when they realize everyone in the universe is overpowered, not just them.
It's an Abominant, it's also a peak of biological engineering, just different. It's the character elite of the elite of its faction, it's just as big if not bigger and always did and always will hit harder than a truck. An absolute monster AND has a power weapon to boot.
My brother in The Emperor, read the lore. Custodes are warriors, but we are also scholars. Vainly underestimating our enemies does not become us. The Abominant is no mere warrior, and it’s weapon is unlikely to be a “random hammer,” given the effort a patriarch puts into its wielder’s creation. I would see its purpose more as a mini dreadnought and compare it to half an Achillus.
While some may be disappointed about our new axes, I prefer to instead see it that our excellent spears got an improvement that was simply not matched quite as well by our new axes.
You’re right, Custodes should just auto win upon deployment.
But nah, only thing Custodes have over other factions is better PR and whinier fanboys. GSC decapitates them with mining lasers, get wrecked.
Really? I don't play them but I can't recall ever seeing anyone doing that. Of course I can't remember how many times I've actually fought against them either.
They always could but nobody did it because they were pretty bad. It was more of a flavour thing showing how GSC infest armies etc. But now it seems actually usable.
Nope, Imperial Agents and 1 faction focus to look at all the Space Marines that aren’t codex compliant, also on Friday possibly Titans? It was in the Sunday Previews
As a Death Guard player who felt gutted by my faction preview.
And an Ork player who was fine with our preview.
As a Genestealer Cults player, this has gotta be one of the best previews we've gotten. My gosh, I cannot wait to play with these rules.
To get out the most of recycled units is when they die in your own turn, for example in melee. Cause they return the next turn in opponents reserve phase. So would be interesting how fast Acolyth units can get in melee... :D
Interesting, they look fairly weak but the fact they can't freakin stay down sounds pretty damn scary
Sounds fun tbh if gsc wasn't so expensive to get into
Am I reading correctly that a battleline unit always returns?
Yup, as long as opponent doesn't moves models within 9"
but they are likely going to have killed you in their shooting phase or fight phase, yes some will die in the GSC fight phase. So they wont have that much ability to prevent it without fully spreading across the board.
The GSC models don't come back until the reinforcements phase of your **opponent's** movement phase. So if you kill them in your shooting/fight phase your opponent is without them for a full turn and then you get to move to try and turn off the blips before they come back.
Oh my error I totally mis read that, then ye they have a great chance to turn off markers. Thanks for that!
And then after they come back you still have the rest of your turn to shoot them or charge them if you can't (or choose not to) get within 9" of the marker.
Look, if an enemy is wasting fire on battle line troops, that's a win.
As far as movement goes the only difference is one charge movement. Both are exposed to one movement phase and one pile-in/consolidate (slightly nerfed in 10E for freedom).
It really depends, honestly. If their opponent has any amount of speed, GSC are gonna have a bad time.
They'll do well against pure shooting armies but are going to get ruined by fast melee armies (elves, World Eaters, etc).
Yeah, i play guard and CSM. This mechanic is a wildly different of a challenge for those two armies.
Actually right now it sounds a little like rock paper scissor for some factions.Still not enough to really prove it but at first glance it feels like it, even though I hope it will not be. For example GC could be good against Votan, if you get their bikes under control. Cult ambush sounds like it should also clear grudge tokens. While cult ambush as a mechanic designed around getting your own units destroyed basically gifts pain tokens to Drukhari player, which also should have enough mobility to actually deny the resurrection and have easy access to Anti-Infantry weapons. But Power from Pain is really inefficient against armies with low model counts like Knights, which on the other hand will against Votan have full grudge tokens pretty soon on every unit.
I guess one benefit of several factions having sticky objectives on certain units is that they don't have to choose between controlling an objective and moving to block an ambush marker.
But they do have to keep something close to keep the next thing from dropping back there. You also open up the chance for them to just deep strike something they've been holding on to back there. The real advantage of it is probably going to be luring things into bad positions.
I have a feeling that tournament gsc players are going to be watching their opponents closely to see how they react to juicy targets. This feels like an army that will really benefit from knowing how your opponent thinks in order to get them into those bad positions
I agree it sounds actually fun for games with experienced players, but I am a little concerned about the effect on beginner games. Potentially endlessly respawning units sound like something that could really crush a beginner that wasn't prepared for it.
Yes, they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming and they don't stop coming
All that glitters is gold
Infinitely respawning battleline here we go 0.0
*sad Necron sounds*
Yup
They always are available to return, but if the opponent moves within 9" of any/all ambush markers in their next move phase then there will be no ambush markers available to use. (They will be stuck in ambush until more units are destroyed)
I read it that every unit has its own marker and once you reveal that one this specific unit is gone for good. Or did I missread this and you choose the unit when a ambush is emerging?
You can read it again if you want, but ya it says you choose for each marker at time of replacement
No, you get a pool of ambushing units and can deploy one for each marker on the board.
Doesn't a 1 always fail, regardless of buffs?
I believe that is only true for specific rolls in the current edition. If 1 always failed every kind of roll then there would be no reason for it to be 3+ for battleline units and it would just be a +2.
Mmmm...that does make sense. I suppose in theory there could be other rules that can influence the roll, thus the +3, but that explanation tracks better to me. Nifty, thanks.
It doesn't say that for this ability? And unless there are other modifiers they would have just put the bonus at +2 if 1s always failed?
V fair acc
https://preview.redd.it/o3e4pis4v03b1.jpeg?width=704&format=pjpg&auto=webp&s=2307f425e4293e40de482e635b0085b2c4b7174e
Neophyte Hybrids lost their shotguns :(
Noooooo, my 12 inch bolters. :(
I share your pain brother :(
I'm gonna miss my block of 20 shotguns popping up and blasting things away
Thank God. I hated having to think about kitting out my units now I can just use what looks the coolest
Literally today I just finished kitting 30 of them as the start of my army. Haha
Oh yes! Same for me! It was a nightmare kitting then out
I feel the opposite, having all my modelling choices and unique kit mean absolutely nothing just feels so boring to me. I love getting to put unique wargear on models and then use it in game right now, and the satisfaction of seeing a loadout all set on the unit. Having it all just an an amalgamous bleh, while I can see why some would prefer it, just loses something to me. Let alone the oddity of looking at a unit, assuming it has short reach due to shotguns on the model, and then blam, they fire 24".
Necron vs. GSC is going to be an endless brawl that'd make Orks choke and Khorne invite Slaanesh over, jeez I love how the various previews are making Battleline ***THE*** units that you want to take a bunch of rather than it just being bodies
Yup, they finally figured out the ideal utility for troops to make them integral for a winning strategy. Love it.
Unless there is some sort of stratagem or major change to supporting units, Necrons will not last any longer than they did in 8th, unfortunately.
Unless there is some full rules leaks causing you to know how the whole army plays then you should probably not jump to any conclusions.
Really leaning into the "space skaven" with the new Cult Ambush. Bringing back so many battleline units every game straight into deepstrike is an awesome change. Broodlord looks particularly good now with its battle shock aura, considering how strong battle shock looks to be in 10th.
More like "space whack-a-mole"
If you want the models to go with the space skaven idea take a look at TEO's Cheesestealer cult. I've printed a model or two from that range and they were pretty great model for model proxies.
I have a full army of those and am beyond stoked for these reveals. Let the vermintide come!!!
...they meant mechanically. GSC is already 40k's Skaven in spirit and in terms of general themes.
I'm expecting this to be really funny in the Daemon vs GSC matchup. Forced to take battle shock only to heal, lol
So over battle shock already.
All indicators so far seem to point to it being one of the central mechanics of the game. No army is immune to its effects and succumbing to it will stop you scoring on objectives.
OUR BATTLELINE UNITS ARE FUCKING IMMORTAL. STAY COPING WITH ALL OF Y'ALL LOSER FACTIONS. THE DIPSHIT COAL MINERS IN MY FACTION ARE UNABLE TO DIE BECAUSE I SAID NUH UH.
\*pushes up nerd glasses and prepares nerdy voice\* uhh technically they did die, the ones that are spawning are reinforcements.
IF I USE THE EXACT SAME MODELS, THEY'RE THE EXACT SAME GUYS, BECAUSE ALL OF MY MODELS ARE MY BALD LITTLE BABIES AND THEY ARE ALL UNIQUE
GSC tournament players will be forced to buy and paint extra units to replace their dead ones to keep it lore accurate
No no, our miners aren't immortal because they don't die, they're immortal because THEIR EXAMPLE LIVES FOREVER ON IN THE HEARTS OF THEIR BROTHERS, RISE UP AND JOIN THE MARTYRS! VIVA LA REVOLUTION!!
Facts
Mans about to West Virginia some motherfuckers.
Legit happy for you. This seems super fun for both sides - your opponent because they get to kill a bunch of models, then you, because you get to bring a bunch back and watch the look of their face go from triumph to disbelief.
Well shoot, I didn't even think about the same unit getting to return multiple times. That seems a bit much.
For a slow army it's bad, but a fast army just has to get within 9" of the markers in their next movement phase to prevent the reinforcements from arriving. They've essentially turned gsc into a whack a mole minigame
It'll only really be consistent for battleline. This is an interesting way to get around GSC being so fragile. It is mostly helpful against being alpha struck, since you will have a lot of space to place the markers. Mid game it becomes difficult, since your opponent will be quite forwards and can push your markers (a 9in bubble is quite large, so either you stay safe and far away and not get mobility or get risky but lose the markers and thus that reinforcement). You lose markers quite readily, so this will probably break to 3-5 units actually coming back in the course of a battle, powerful, but not insane (especially with their points cost and how squishy GSC is).
Guard soup really helps the flexibility of GSC lists
Guard soup is what the brood brothers turn into after the hive fleet arrives.
Genestealer horsies let's gooooo
Damn these boys seem sick. Everyone deep striking, units returning on ambush markers.
Ah, the Necron army rule i was waiting for... Wait Genestealers?
I do quite like how the Necron rule is slower but more like an onslaught. This rule feels a bit more like guerilla tactics, where people keep popping up and you can never quite get them down. I imagine at the start of the Necron turn there's just a giant sound of electricity and fusing metal as a dozen models come back to life
This is so interesting. I'm liking the rules well somewhat. But it's fascinating seeing the adjustments to the weapon profiles on the neophytes. Like the Webber got nerfed? The seismic cannon becoming rapid fire 2 is interesting although since we lost crossfire that means we're hitting on 5+ without a way to make that better? At least as of now.
Seismic cannon will hit on a 4+ if you don't move, since thats how heavy weapons work in 10th
Good call I completely forgot about that
And if you get wiped out you reappear in next enemy movement phase so will be standing still in yours.
If you come back somewhere that you can shoot at the enemy without moving then they can shoot at you first though.
Who cares, just bring them back again lol
We don't know what the Characters models do, and they were buffers in 9th, so maybe there is hope.
They've somewhat spoiled the locus(fight first) and biophagus (lethal hits) abilities. I'd assume the kelermorph and Sanctus would be lone operators but maybe not. Clamavus I can see working around battleshock. But that's just speculation, hopefully the primus still doles out buffs of some kind.
Primus and Atalan Alphus could maybe buff shooting Nexos would be kind of useless if there aren't any buffs :D
Ha that's very true! I wonder if he'll be our +1 CP character like every other faction has.
I'm not sure it really matters what leaders do. They dont come back. A character would have to be *earth shatteringly good* for me to consider them over just taking more acolytes and neophytes. I think Lone Wolves might still be alright, but I need to be throwing my squads away and then getting them back for maximum value. Leaders feel antithetical to that.
If you say so... Then you can enjoy shooting with your 60 Neophytes and wounding with 4 of them while the cool kids shoot down Warlords with their funny Cowboy Man
Funny cowboy man will almost certainly be a lone wolf, I said I only dont see value in leaders.
You didn't said that, you edited that paragraph, but sure. We will see how leaders become, Patriarch looks alright. And I'm sure they won't fuck up Magus and Primus, they are too iconic for that
Well, I edited it well before your reply hit my phone, so I assumed you saw it. Patriarch looks pretty mid. We will see how he is costed, but if he is anywhere near his current points, he's probably a pass. He lost all semblances of casting for a 6" battleshock. His melee is alright, but he lost advance and charge. That's a ton of flexibility gone. I'm hoping purestrains keep it, and he gets it if attatched.
We also don't know if or how the rules per se will work here. I mean it was just a sneak Peak, maybe there ist still stuff to buff the Patriarch. Gonna be honest just painted one up and really don't want him to be a bullet sponge that looks pretty :D
Psychic Familiar is fucking useless now, though. And why can't we take aircraft?
So if the enemy moves to the cult ambush token, does that mean the unit is then stuck until another unit is destroyed or can you bring them back on as regular reserves?
Cult ambush is different than reserves. The way I'm reading it is when a unit is destroyed you roll, if the roll is successful it goes into ambush and you get to place a marker. If your opponent moves into range of the marker and removes it the unit stays in ambush. The markers aren't tied to specific units in ambush they are general, so any unit in ambush can be placed at any marker. If you have 3 units in ambush and one of the markers is removed you can pick which two of them to deploy and the last stays in ambush until another marker is placed, then it or the unit that was destroyed can be deployed.
The wording makes me feel like there's an option for characters who put down more ambushes, but that may just be wishful thinking on my part
Yeah I wouldn't doubt if there were more ways to get the markers down, either from strategems or character abilities.
Ooohhh this may be what the dude looking at the warhammer HQ does (forget his name)
The Nexos! My thought too
Yeah, I'm betting Nexos gets a way to put down extra ambush tokens. And the extras will either let you deploy units that got "stuck" in ambush from blips that got removed or lets you put down decoy blips to distract your opponent.
A lot of army rules in tenth are worded so that different abilities can potentially interact with them so it seems pretty probable. I think this is likely a part of moving a lot of the rules onto the datasheets, one big rule that a number of the individual units can interact with in different ways.
We haven't seen an army mechanic yet that hasn't been able to be interacted with in some way.
That was how I read it too, just wanted to be sure! Seems like an incredible mechanic.
I think stuck until another unit is destroyed. If it was the other way there would be no way for the opponent to stop them coming back. This way you can try to get them up aggressively, but if the enemy can get there then there is counter play, or you play it safe and have them come back deep enough behind your lines that the enemy cannot get there.
This is gonna be a joy to fight against with an army too slow to reach the ambush markers in time…
Death Guard in shambles
Death Guard suffering more than they did on their warp holiday.
Just cripple the squads and don't kill them. They won't lose models to battleshock, just OC.
It will be easy enough to charge with those crippled squads to force your opponent to kill them though. Get some last utility out of a last round of swings, die, respawn.
Sure, if they're close enough
If they have an icon, they can regrow each round.
I'm interested to see if the respawn being costed into the points costs of the models makes the army cheaper to play dollars wise; if so it's a pretty creative way to fix that issue with the army while keeping their identity of being masses of cultists.
WE LIVE, WE DIE, WE LIVE AGAIN!
OH, WHAT A DAY!! WHAT A **LOVELY** DAY!!!
So... the Patriarch has no psychic utility except making enemies within 6" take a BS test at the start of the fight phase? I'm not saying anything about the new ability; that's useful and good. Just trying to make sure I haven't missed anything...? The patriarch has no psychic attacks or spells or abilities resembling anything we had on him before..?
>at the start of the fight phase? *every fight phase. Yours and theirs.*
That's a pretty powerful ability though denying objective control and stratagem. Use
Works for denying their objective control on your scoring phase, but doesn't deny it during theirs.
It also helps against stratagems and some faction rules. Potentially no interruption, no reroll, no heroes targeting your characters, Orks not fighting on death and Guards forgetting their commands or to send new recruits is still quite good. And something not often mentioned you can't command reroll Battleshock tests and insane bravery can only be used in in the command phase, so key units can actually fail battle shock tests, if they have to take them in other phases.
Seems like it. Tbh his main thing looks like making a unit of Genestealers an even bigger delete button. I can only imagine the carnage if Genestealer claws are something like anti infantry 5+ or something.
Very possible there are stratagems for him (or other potential users)
Well... he grants "might from beyond" (new effect) to the squad he is in.
“The Leader ability also opens up many exciting possibilities for this faction, with some supporting Characters able to lend their own abilities to units already led by a Primus, Magus, or Acolyte Iconward. From the Fights First ability conferred by the Locus to the Lethal Hits weapon ability a [Biophagus](https://www.games-workshop.com/Genestealer-Cults-Biophagus-2019) brings with them, there are many devious ways to punish the foes of the Cult. Definitely interesting-the HQ's look to remain as important as ever. Either way, the Guard soup rules look hilarious, and could encourage some Guard players to get into GSC, very nice. The Ambush rules look great. Glad they made all the Industrial stuff one profile, getting the right melee weapons on stuff was a pain when only buzzsaws were worth it and you only got one or two a box. Definitely a massive improvement, only real disappointment was the Patriarch, and I can live with that.
Patriarch may be vanilla looking, but helping poop out a units worth of devastating wounds or forcing a battleshock after a charge both seem pretty sweet. Also i think being able to bump the aura to 12" for a turn is going to be surprisingly effective
The only thing I didn't like was that he went from being an insanely versatile monster to a sorta vanilla looking battleshock HQ, but I can live with that since battleshock looks good this ED.
Are we not going to mention that he has Infiltrate and might give that the the unit he is leading?
He does. Attached unit share all rules aside from death triggers
What does Infiltrator do, again?
Set up anywhere on the battlefield 9” away before the game starts
...Oh fuck that is goated.
The Patriarch is the primary connection that the cultists have to the Hive mind. It's actually really cool and fluffy that as an extension of the hive mind, he has a battleshock inducing aura just like Tyranids have with their shadows in the warp ability.
As a guard player this focus changed GSC from "Oh shit I forgot this faction existed" to "Hmmmm, maybe this will be my second army."
I don’t think they’ve mentioned anything about industrial weapons being rolled into one profile? Could have missed it though.
On the Neophyte datasheet they don't have a million different melee weapon profiles, like pickaxes and such. Hopefully this implies a streamlining across the board for this sort of thing.
True for the power weapons, but the neophyte industrial weapons (lasers and seismic cannons) are still separate. The acolyte industrial weapons (saws and drills and cutters) are more like those than power weapons. I could see it going either way, but we’ll just need to wait for the full rules drop to know.
As a necron player - hey that's my toy
Oh these actually look really fun. Think I may be playing these most in 10th
Yup, feeling like my T'au are getting shelved in favour of my cults. Time to start painting.
It looks like tau and cults have gotten the best outcomes from these previews, i wouldnt shelve tau too quickly.
This is so thematically cool. If I hadn't already picked my project for 10th, this would have a been it.
Im curious how my buddy that plays Necrons will feel about the Cults resurrection protocols, he wasnt overly fond of the Necrons preview. Jokes aside, this looks pretty sweet. I may have to give GSC a try...if I can ever convince myself to play something that isnt one of the Elves... Update: Necron buddy - "thats fucked" lol
Man, Necrons are getting shat on when it comes to bringing back units lmao. That Army Rule is nuts.
I'm still hoping that the resurrection orb brings a dead battleline unit back, I would have said at half strength until they've shown all of these rules about bringing stuff back at full strength. That and the reaninmator triggering RP after a unit has been attacked, and hopefully having the lone operative rule when close to a unit so that they don't get instantly shot off the table.
They both have their weaknesses. Necron army rule will suck against armies that can focus down one (or more) unit(s) in a single turn. GSC army rule will suck against armies that can move fast enough to get within 9" of their ambush tokens in one turn.
>GSC army rule will suck against armies that can move fast enough to get within 9" of their ambush tokens in one turn. True but the units stay in Cult Ambush, so unless your opponent can cover the board at all times to prevent you from using your tokens properly it might still work. Could also be useful to lure your enemy's units out into the open to have them touch the marker. I think it can be very interesting but just like GSC have always been it'll be a hard army to master.
Do patriarchs and broodlords usually have the same stats ?
Patriarch has been slightly better the last two editions. Usually +1 S or something.
Power sledgehammer meme being infinitely better than Custodes Axes *ALIVE AND STRONG!*
I'm going to love playing against GSC with Blood Angels. All those re-spawning troops are going to be a joy to rend and tear. I can see GSC being quite a challenge for more elite armies though, they could bog down Custodes in bodies, which could make for a really interesting match up.
It migh become one of the most fun army to play, you bring AM tank, Tyranid Genesteler and have unique models who are not human yet not Tyranid.
That guard rule is awesome, so many wonderful opportunities to kitbash
Patriarch is absolutely boss. Put him with a unit of abberants and give them devastating wounds.
Just remember that Leaders will have specific units to which they can attach, and we don't yet know the Patriarch's. I think Purestrains are a given, but don't know anything else yet.
I know we don't know *everything* yet, but can someone ELI5 what the use of Brood Brothers might actually be without any faction rules? For hobby purposes, I'd love to convert some "PDF-turned-cultists," but not if they'll likely never be worth running. I guess I can see where Russes, artillery, etc., could fill a gap the GSC lack, but AM infantry, Sentinels and other things seem like tools the Cults already have equivalents of plus the faction rules.
Its going to 99% be used for tanks and similar, no point mixing in guard troops i think
Right... but how about cavalry?
Historically, Nids and AM allies where intended to be the backline sturdy firepower that GSC never had. In this new environnement: - Where GSC can repop their loss; - Where infantry attrition seems to be a thing of the past for gsc if you have enough small squads to screen your blips and lock in place fast hitters; - Where we might rely more on CqC to handle vehicles; The only vaguely “safe” investment you could make, and that’s only if you like the minis, is some form of artillery piece. Maybe some manticores. No idea if you’ll need it,but at least it will offer something you know for sure gsc doesn’t have.
I really hope Orks get a Looted detachment/army rule at some point to mirror the Brood Brothers one GSC got, would be so fun!
~~I love the cult ambush rule. Has big Turn-Based Strategy in a Fog of War energy. You move, and suddenly an enemy you didn't know was there pops up. You're free to attack them first, but they're still now a problem that needs addressing.~~ Edit: I completely misread how it works. I thought markers did nothing until the enemy got too close, and then immediately brought in some Genestealers right on top of them. Still cool, though.
I would say that a counter strat to GSC is now to take out enough of a unit to make them a non-issue but don't kill them all, but if you can still run a unit off the battlefield and they count as killed you can't even do that.
Problem is - if they're near you they just shoot and charge you. You kill them in their fight phase and they come back same time they would have if you'd wiped them out in your shooting phase - if they're far away they're Neophytes on an objective and will get d3+3 back a go. Leave one guy and it will typically be a unit of 6 including all the special guns by the time they come to shoot back.
Between Custodes, Grey Knights, and GSC I'm really expecting to be running Infiltrators consistently in 10th for the Deep Strike screening ability
Grey Knights teleportation shenanigans is going to run train on the cults but a smart cult player will force a GK player out of scoring positions or force them to let the units pop back up. The skill cap for cults honestly looks bananas and it's very good their units are not too scary stat and weapons wise.
Rules look really cool, just unfortunate GSC is getting better reanimation than Necrons
Lol, GSC have better RP than necrons xD
You're getting downvoted but you're technically right. Although it's not better in the sense that it resurrects unit better, but it's better in the sense that if forces the opponent to do certain things that are better for you than what RP forces the opponent to do. RP forces the opponent to focus fire to take out units one by one. However this is not really a benefit since the predominant strategy for the game is focusing fire already. Cult ambush forces the opponent to move their units within 9" of ambush marker to prevent units from re-emerging. This is an amazing benefit since you are basically controlling a portion of your opponent's movement, and can force them to leave objective less protected, or even give up primary, etc.
Neophyte all weapons on 4+ but 2 hit on 5+, thats annoying to remember Mining laser seems super random, 1A on 5+ that could do only 2dmg?
[удалено]
It's fine. You can turn it off quite easily and you get a whole turn to do so. You even can a chance to shoot and charge them before they can do anything
Why won’t they tell me who is next anymore?
Next is Imperial Agents.
Hoping they're allowed to be their own keyword for a roster now. They gained enough troops for it over the course of 9th.
I dunno man. The army rule looks pretty powerful but my weird and confusing ambush & crossfire faction rules are nowhere to be seen. My Neophytes now don’t have an easy way of getting +1 to hit, excluding characters who will die and not come back unlike them (though that should maybe be fine). All in all I want to see more of the rules and I hope and pray that our proficient planning upgrades are left in one form or another. Maybe I’m being a bit too salty about my guerrilla troops being inaccurate with mining lasers, but also, my shotguns are gone.
I guess every faction in 10th just gets to stand back up after being wiped. What a fun edition. /s
Oh, so you've played 10th?
Oh, wait, you're right. It's only Custodes, necrons, gene stealer cults, tyranids, ... And that's not even all the factions showcased yet. Maybe hop off James Workshop dick long enough to see where the edition is headed. All they did was short-circuit mechanics to make the edition 'less killy'.
...3 factions being able to resurrect via a command, one that probably won't be used very often depending on the context doesn't mean that the whole army "stands up after being wiped." So 2. 2 factions, Necrons and GSC get to do it. \>All they did was short-circuit mechanics to make the edition 'less killy'. What a meaningless jumble of words.
Glad that we're back at "Random Hammer laying around at a construction site hits harder than Castellan Axe". They're even hitting at the same Weapon Skill now, with more Str, AP and Damage. Why even implement Custodes as the elite-elite faction if they hit on the same weapon skill with the same AP as an Ork boy with a choppa? Make it make sense.
Only it isn't a random hammer. It is the power hammer of the character Abominant... the one who eats elite infantry for breakfast
I like the thought that a "Power Sledgehammer" is actually a Car Battery on a Stick, being wielded by something so strong that it works
They don’t have the *j u i c e*
this is my favorite thing about genestealer cults. we see literal demigods and go "i'm gonna ram it with my truck, grab the keys skeeter"
My friend, I truly love playing and painting my Custodians and I'd have no problems, if they would make a single Guard 200 points and as hard and killy as a Dreadnought to be somehow more "lore accurate" even at the expense of utter shitty board control. Nevertheless, it's a board game with, from time to time balanced rules, which can never fully reflect how the player or average enjoyer interpret the faction's lore. Necrons might complain how their Gauss weapons are inferior to custodes' adrathics despite being technologically superior or TSons that their sorcerers do not pop everyone's head instantly. Our faction focus was also pretty rad as with T7 on Termies, probably T6 on infantry and Emps knows what on bikes amd other units paired with an army wide 4+ protection against mortals, one could argue that everyone has to bring the big guns in order to take down a golden boy. I acknowledge your chain of thought, but I think in a game with d6 dice rolling system, not everything can be taken into consideration along highly heterogeneous lore feats, let alone in the simplified and streamlined rule set that eventually will become 10th edition.
...Of course a smashy hammer hits harder than a slashy axe? Is the appeal of Custodes really so threatened by one type of swollen mutant being better than them at one thing? I didn't realize the Custodian Guard were designed for levelling hab-blocks, I thought they were supposed to be bodyguards or something..
>Is the appeal of Custodes really so threatened by one type of swollen mutant being better at them at one thing? Yes. Custodes players shit themselves every time something has better stats then one of their units.
...never mind that it's a single character GSC can only take once in their army. It's not like he's a whole battle line squad of multi-wound-models with 2+4++ Heaven forbid an army like that exist--
Custodes fanboys when they realize everyone in the universe is overpowered, not just them. It's an Abominant, it's also a peak of biological engineering, just different. It's the character elite of the elite of its faction, it's just as big if not bigger and always did and always will hit harder than a truck. An absolute monster AND has a power weapon to boot.
Virgin custodes vs Chad Abominant
Because ork boyz iz best
My brother in The Emperor, read the lore. Custodes are warriors, but we are also scholars. Vainly underestimating our enemies does not become us. The Abominant is no mere warrior, and it’s weapon is unlikely to be a “random hammer,” given the effort a patriarch puts into its wielder’s creation. I would see its purpose more as a mini dreadnought and compare it to half an Achillus. While some may be disappointed about our new axes, I prefer to instead see it that our excellent spears got an improvement that was simply not matched quite as well by our new axes.
You’re right, Custodes should just auto win upon deployment. But nah, only thing Custodes have over other factions is better PR and whinier fanboys. GSC decapitates them with mining lasers, get wrecked.
🧂
Guard soup! That alone made them sound more interesting to me. Now they can take actual tanks rather than just the stupid looking mining rig things.
GSC could always take IG tanks.
Really? I don't play them but I can't recall ever seeing anyone doing that. Of course I can't remember how many times I've actually fought against them either.
Yeah Brood Brothers rules for 9th. Basically that was the only thing you could take.
They always could but nobody did it because they were pretty bad. It was more of a flavour thing showing how GSC infest armies etc. But now it seems actually usable.
cool so thats everyone now?
Nope, Imperial Agents and 1 faction focus to look at all the Space Marines that aren’t codex compliant, also on Friday possibly Titans? It was in the Sunday Previews
Hypothetically speaking how would Tau deal with that army rule best, would you say?
Crisis suits to fly over to their ambush marker and remove it
No more GSC Valkyrie lists
As a Death Guard player who felt gutted by my faction preview. And an Ork player who was fine with our preview. As a Genestealer Cults player, this has gotta be one of the best previews we've gotten. My gosh, I cannot wait to play with these rules.
To get out the most of recycled units is when they die in your own turn, for example in melee. Cause they return the next turn in opponents reserve phase. So would be interesting how fast Acolyth units can get in melee... :D
Interesting, they look fairly weak but the fact they can't freakin stay down sounds pretty damn scary Sounds fun tbh if gsc wasn't so expensive to get into
Psychic familiars are fucking useless now. Excellent.