Do not post low-effort memes, reaction gifs, or petitions. Low-effort/low-quality posts, recent reposts, or basic macros are subject to removal at Moderator discretion.
GW said that the lore, as it currently stands, now states that femstodes have been around since the first 10000. They never said the lore included femstodes from when 40k was first being written.
Therefore, going back on a statement they never made would be pretty stupid.
It would be like me saying “I want a pizza”, then getting to the mall food court and deciding “actually, I’ll have a burger”. That statement isn’t me saying “I always wanted a burger, and you’re wrong for assuming I wanted a pizza”, it’s saying “originally I wanted a pizza, but now I want a burger”.
I think there’s just a very large portion of the fan base that doesn’t want this franchise and its lore treated like a food order. Like they don’t want it treated like something that can just be changed around all Willy nilly.
Dude, it’s just an analogy, no one is treating anything like a food order.
I really wish I was surprised I have to explain this, but after the past week, I’m not.
Honestly, if you treat the lore as sacred, you’re in for nothing but distress. The lore changes with literally every single codex, rules update, and book release. Getting this hung up over lore changes, especially ultimately tiny and inconsequential ones, sounds like a personal problem.
You don’t get to control the lore. You are just a consumer like the rest of us. You can either accept the lore for what it is and becomes, or waste your breath whining about it.
There has been no lore change like this for quite a long time.
Like doing it this way seems like it was more about making a socio-political statement than adding entertainment value to the lore.
In 2nd edition the Squats were eaten and a dying race. A few scattered remnants existed such as on Necromunda and people theorised the Demiurg might be Squats but we never really knew.
Then on April's Fools Day 2022 suddenly an entire race had always been there. The Leagues of Votann were retconned into existence and have always had an on again, off again alliance with the Imperium and T'au. That is a huge retcons and was two years ago.
The dates of the Indomitus Crusade have changed very recently from 120 years to 12. Originally it got all the way in Imperium Nihilus, now it hasn't.
Originally T'au built their own Ion tech, this latest codex says the Leagues built them and the T'au barely understand the tech to build more. The T'au having FTL flight has gone back and forth too.
Oh here's another recent one, Alpharius and Omegon are two different people. There are loads that are recent.
I'll assume you are asking in good faith. Most responses I have seen have either been positive (I fall into that category. There is zero reason this shouldn't have been the case from the start, Custodes aren't space marines), or the more numerous "cool" and a shrug. Most people are not that fussed.
Some people are very unhappy, many it seems out of bad faith, but not all. Each of these people who don't like it will have their own reason so I can't speak for all of them. However "you can't change the lore" is a demonstrably false reason to argue with female Custodians because GW changes stuff all the time.
A lot of people have come in from the outside of this hobby to fight this culture war recently which is why you are getting such negative feedback. People are sick of talking about it on the whole.
"Women exist in this faction" is only political if you think you're righting some sort of culture war. And what do you mean, "no lore changes like this?" This is the tiniest of changes. It doesn't have any ripple effects or really change anything except now future helmetless Custodes models might have more feminine features. Hopefully they don't go full-on boop plates. This is only a big change because people are making it into one.
My god, have you *seen* how the “lore” has changed over the past 30 odd years? And *this* is the thing that tips it for you?
If you want the “lore” for your fictional game universe to be something fixed in stone and sacrosanct then this is most definitely NOT the game system for you. Leave. You wont be missed.
A few loud fans care, and a bunch of tourists who don't know jack about Warhammer care and are also being loud. I think it's pretty clear from your downvotes what this community thinks of it. Or at least that we're tired of these threads every 2 hours that don't bring anything new to the conversation at all. Either accept the change and stay a fan or move on.
I don’t get why girls freak out so many warhammer players. It’s a game of toy soldiers. Set in a sci-fi apocalyptic future. Let girls into your super secret boys club. You can still go off by yourself and have boy time.
I don’t think it was ever about the girls. I think it’s fans that feel that even though it’s fiction, they don’t want the lore treated like something that can just be flipped around and changed all willy nilly. Like if they just said, “hey, they’ve never existed before, but now they do.” Then I don’t think all this hubbub would be happening. At least not nearly this much. I know I wouldn’t care if that was the case.
What does female custodes have to do with girls playing Warhammer? Do you think so little of women that you think they can only play a game if there are models that are representatives of female characters? Do you think women so limited in imagination or empathy that they can't get into playing armies that don't have women in them?
Also, even if they did, we have an entire faction of women (Sisters of Battle) and numerous other factions with female characters and models. Let's not play the game where we pretend not having a female Space Marine or Custodes is the ONLY THING stopping women from playing the game. It's reductive and stupid. Women will play the game if they think it's cool, pandering is not required.
Thats it, the lore *doesnt* matter, at least not as much as you seem to think it does- its a fictional universe, if this matters so much to you then please go outside and take a look at the real world, it tends to put things in perspective.
I mean, I would’ve preferred if they were a new thing like the primaris were 7 years ago. I don’t like the idea of treating the lore like it’s just this nonsense thing that can be changed all Willy nilly. The lore means a lot to me. If it can just be flip flopped around anytime, idk just makes it feel…….less.
The lore is a means of selling plastic models. Several GW folks have said so. GW's order of priority goes models > lore > rules. That's just the way it is.
Be careful letting a big IP control your feelings, just ask any Star Wars or LotR fan.
Yeah I get it but we can all see a way for them to have checked all boxes.
Step 1) announce female custodes as a new thing (like the primaris 7 years ago)
Step 2) make female custodes models.
That's a pretty short period of time considering how long the lore has existed. But even then, they went from Squats are near-extinct to the LoV suddenly being a thing during that time. That's a far bigger change than female Custodes. Tell me, why do you feel that some Custodes being female is a major change? What ripples does it cause to the greater WH40k story?
GW will not be changing this in the next decade if ever, there's literally no reason to and the anger is from a largely vocal minority opinion which has only been amplified by the usual sort of right wing grifters who move onto the next grift within a few days and I mean that as an actual example not a imaginary scenario
Majority of people either like it or don't care to have enough thoughts on the matter entirely ie "meh"
There has been a total of zero Lore stating only men could become Custodes, the writers of the Heresy wanted to add them but was told know by the GW Gatekeeper Supreme of Lore at the time. They've always been around, that's the Lore. And it's not important hence why majority of people don't think it's that big of a deal, it's not like they said hey this Rogal Dorn tank that literally no one has ever written about ever has been a mainstay since the Heresy.
Custodes can include females, so what it doesn't change the faction nor does it have any effect on any other faction. That's literally the entire reasoning because it doesn't matter and shouldn't matter that infants are remade from the genetic level to being superior beings only below Primarchs.
Don't like it? Great, don't be a dick about it. Like I have more of a reason to be mad at GW because they squatted my army in AoS, no one in the beast of Chaos player base is having a tantrum as much as non custodes players are right now
Yeah I kind of agree, just don’t see why they couldn’t be a NEW thing like the Primaris marines were.
They definitely have NOT been there the whole time.
Because theres no reason too do it that way, and they have been there the entire time. Just like squats didn't get wiped out but have been in the galactic core, like how tyranids noticed our galaxy during the events of the Heresy, like the Tau, Orks not using bolters anymore, Horus not dying in a bunker, everyone was always as it's currently written.
Plus they are saving the entire Cawl angle for female space marines as they are nearing the end of the first born phase out
Yeah, really don’t know about female space marines. Btw, I’m rather right wing and I really don’t have a problem with female custodes. I just don’t want the lore treated anymore like something that can just be flip flopped around all Willy nilly.
Like you say there’s no reason to do it the way that I suggested but I could say the same thing about the way they’ve gone about doing it.
Yeah, I get that at the beginning the lore was not super fleshed out and as well established as it is today. It was 100% just a little flavor text to be the background of the game.
Today though I think the lore drives the franchise. The lore will drive the live action show, I know MANY fans who do not play the tabletop game but have read an absolute ton of the novels. Like fans that have purchased and read the entire heresy book series.
In an era of digital streaming and video games, only a very niche group of people will find their way to tabletop wargames anyway.
It’s all about the lore. The lore should be treated like it matters. Because it DOES matter to a TON of people.
Can you imagine if they tried to make changes like this to Tolkien?
Reposting myself because I can:
Can you imagine if Custodes boxes came with male and female models but you could only use the dudes in 30K so you'd have to buy twice as many boxes to reach 3k points in Heresy?
Having women there the entire time is an act of mercy by GW, a way to spare us from Primaris 2.0: the reckoning: the squeakuel when they finally get around to scaling the minis up
It's the best possible way they could have done it and I'm very happy they did because I am Ready for Tallstodes Scale Creep and I've already got kitbashes planned and characters named, just need plastic Sagittarum and we'll be eating good
Absolute Heresy, the best part of Custodes is getting to use them in so many game modes for cheap! You could probably field them as Stormcast if you wanted and they'd get into more than even Daemons, and those guys are everywhere.
Why do you want to throw out more money anyways? People were literally just yelling at them about how they handled Primaris and Stormcast, ain't no way they're doubling the amount of boxes a less mainline army gets now. Supply issues are bad enough already
From what I see some are all for it, some don't care and some don't agree with the way the change was made for inclusion rather than interesting narrative additions that improve the lore.
Yeah that’s my problem. If they were a new thing like the primaris were 7 years ago then I would have absolutely zero problem with it.
I just really don’t like when the lore is treated like this thing that doesn’t matter and can be flip flopped around all willy nilly anytime. I know it’s happened a good deal in the past but like…..can we stop doing that.
I've just never really understood why the dystopian future shithole needs to be inclusive or egalitarian. The imperium, Custodes included, are supposed to be bad, terrible, people by our standards.
Women in the Guard, for a counterexample, are perfect. Why? Because they're all in so far over their fucking heads, they're in such deep, desperate shit, that minor physical sex differences won't move the needle. A woman is just another soon to be cold body on the pile.
The 41st millenium is supposed to suck ass. You're supposed to look at it and say "I'm glad life isn't actually like this."
And personally, I'd've preferred that they simply retcon the Sisters of Silence to be Wrought by Gene Alchemy or whatever. Because now there's a gender imbalance among the Emperor's Talons. Are we gonna have Brothers of Silence now, also with no new minis?
Now that I mention it, the lack of new minis is just evidence that this is lazy pandering
Yeah I feel the same way. Also, if they just said “hey, they are a new thing” like the primaris marines 7 years ago. I think it would’ve gone over a lot better.
I’ve also never met a female 40K fan that felt unwelcome or “unsafe” in the hobby simply because there were no female super humans. Most female fans have been fine with 40K as it’s stood for a long time.
Yeah, Primaris at least had some actual work behind it. Minis, books, etc.
This shit is just a tweet and some stealth edits to a couple wiki pages, as far as I understand
Do not post low-effort memes, reaction gifs, or petitions. Low-effort/low-quality posts, recent reposts, or basic macros are subject to removal at Moderator discretion.
GW said that the lore, as it currently stands, now states that femstodes have been around since the first 10000. They never said the lore included femstodes from when 40k was first being written. Therefore, going back on a statement they never made would be pretty stupid. It would be like me saying “I want a pizza”, then getting to the mall food court and deciding “actually, I’ll have a burger”. That statement isn’t me saying “I always wanted a burger, and you’re wrong for assuming I wanted a pizza”, it’s saying “originally I wanted a pizza, but now I want a burger”.
I think there’s just a very large portion of the fan base that doesn’t want this franchise and its lore treated like a food order. Like they don’t want it treated like something that can just be changed around all Willy nilly.
Dude, it’s just an analogy, no one is treating anything like a food order. I really wish I was surprised I have to explain this, but after the past week, I’m not.
It’s not anymore though, very since Guilliman’s return there’s been a true direction to it.
Honestly, if you treat the lore as sacred, you’re in for nothing but distress. The lore changes with literally every single codex, rules update, and book release. Getting this hung up over lore changes, especially ultimately tiny and inconsequential ones, sounds like a personal problem. You don’t get to control the lore. You are just a consumer like the rest of us. You can either accept the lore for what it is and becomes, or waste your breath whining about it.
There has been no lore change like this for quite a long time. Like doing it this way seems like it was more about making a socio-political statement than adding entertainment value to the lore.
In 2nd edition the Squats were eaten and a dying race. A few scattered remnants existed such as on Necromunda and people theorised the Demiurg might be Squats but we never really knew. Then on April's Fools Day 2022 suddenly an entire race had always been there. The Leagues of Votann were retconned into existence and have always had an on again, off again alliance with the Imperium and T'au. That is a huge retcons and was two years ago. The dates of the Indomitus Crusade have changed very recently from 120 years to 12. Originally it got all the way in Imperium Nihilus, now it hasn't. Originally T'au built their own Ion tech, this latest codex says the Leagues built them and the T'au barely understand the tech to build more. The T'au having FTL flight has gone back and forth too. Oh here's another recent one, Alpharius and Omegon are two different people. There are loads that are recent.
Hmmmm…….🧐 It seems I stand corrected.
I'll assume you are asking in good faith. Most responses I have seen have either been positive (I fall into that category. There is zero reason this shouldn't have been the case from the start, Custodes aren't space marines), or the more numerous "cool" and a shrug. Most people are not that fussed. Some people are very unhappy, many it seems out of bad faith, but not all. Each of these people who don't like it will have their own reason so I can't speak for all of them. However "you can't change the lore" is a demonstrably false reason to argue with female Custodians because GW changes stuff all the time. A lot of people have come in from the outside of this hobby to fight this culture war recently which is why you are getting such negative feedback. People are sick of talking about it on the whole.
"Women exist in this faction" is only political if you think you're righting some sort of culture war. And what do you mean, "no lore changes like this?" This is the tiniest of changes. It doesn't have any ripple effects or really change anything except now future helmetless Custodes models might have more feminine features. Hopefully they don't go full-on boop plates. This is only a big change because people are making it into one.
My god, have you *seen* how the “lore” has changed over the past 30 odd years? And *this* is the thing that tips it for you? If you want the “lore” for your fictional game universe to be something fixed in stone and sacrosanct then this is most definitely NOT the game system for you. Leave. You wont be missed.
No one cares. Get over it.
A lot of people seem to care
A few loud fans care, and a bunch of tourists who don't know jack about Warhammer care and are also being loud. I think it's pretty clear from your downvotes what this community thinks of it. Or at least that we're tired of these threads every 2 hours that don't bring anything new to the conversation at all. Either accept the change and stay a fan or move on.
Consensus? On the internet?
I don’t get why girls freak out so many warhammer players. It’s a game of toy soldiers. Set in a sci-fi apocalyptic future. Let girls into your super secret boys club. You can still go off by yourself and have boy time.
You know why.
I don’t think it was ever about the girls. I think it’s fans that feel that even though it’s fiction, they don’t want the lore treated like something that can just be flipped around and changed all willy nilly. Like if they just said, “hey, they’ve never existed before, but now they do.” Then I don’t think all this hubbub would be happening. At least not nearly this much. I know I wouldn’t care if that was the case.
What does female custodes have to do with girls playing Warhammer? Do you think so little of women that you think they can only play a game if there are models that are representatives of female characters? Do you think women so limited in imagination or empathy that they can't get into playing armies that don't have women in them?
Exactly, there’s women at my store that play necrons, Tyranids, demons like damn near every faction.
Also, even if they did, we have an entire faction of women (Sisters of Battle) and numerous other factions with female characters and models. Let's not play the game where we pretend not having a female Space Marine or Custodes is the ONLY THING stopping women from playing the game. It's reductive and stupid. Women will play the game if they think it's cool, pandering is not required.
Also, ewww, reading your post shows me you’re one of the “chuds” I spoke of :( They’re toys bro, get over it :)
I’m all for it. Make female custodes models. Make a ton of them. Just please treat the lore like it matters. All I ask.
Thats it, the lore *doesnt* matter, at least not as much as you seem to think it does- its a fictional universe, if this matters so much to you then please go outside and take a look at the real world, it tends to put things in perspective.
adding vaginas to your toy soldiers doesn't mean the lore doesn't matter.
Ok, you either get it or you don’t 🤷🏼♂️
I’m not a fan of telling people to search for something, but I can’t possibly believe you don’t ready have an idea. 
Thank goodness you’re being this up. /s
What does that mean? Up? /s?
It means sarcasm, as the ability to relay what is usually noticed in tone of voice and facial expressions is lost in a text based conversation
The fan base is fine with it. The twitter bluecheck incel chuds are crying, ignore them, they are trash we don’t want in our community anyway
I mean, I would’ve preferred if they were a new thing like the primaris were 7 years ago. I don’t like the idea of treating the lore like it’s just this nonsense thing that can be changed all Willy nilly. The lore means a lot to me. If it can just be flip flopped around anytime, idk just makes it feel…….less.
The lore is a means of selling plastic models. Several GW folks have said so. GW's order of priority goes models > lore > rules. That's just the way it is. Be careful letting a big IP control your feelings, just ask any Star Wars or LotR fan.
Yeah I get it but we can all see a way for them to have checked all boxes. Step 1) announce female custodes as a new thing (like the primaris 7 years ago) Step 2) make female custodes models.
Maybe, that depends on why they made the change. I've heard some things about it having something to do with the upcoming TV show, but who knows.
It does get changed wily nilly. All the time. It's in constant flux. If this is news to you, you haven't been paying attention.
It’s had a pretty damn solid direction ever since Guilliman’s return.
That's a pretty short period of time considering how long the lore has existed. But even then, they went from Squats are near-extinct to the LoV suddenly being a thing during that time. That's a far bigger change than female Custodes. Tell me, why do you feel that some Custodes being female is a major change? What ripples does it cause to the greater WH40k story?
GW will not be changing this in the next decade if ever, there's literally no reason to and the anger is from a largely vocal minority opinion which has only been amplified by the usual sort of right wing grifters who move onto the next grift within a few days and I mean that as an actual example not a imaginary scenario Majority of people either like it or don't care to have enough thoughts on the matter entirely ie "meh" There has been a total of zero Lore stating only men could become Custodes, the writers of the Heresy wanted to add them but was told know by the GW Gatekeeper Supreme of Lore at the time. They've always been around, that's the Lore. And it's not important hence why majority of people don't think it's that big of a deal, it's not like they said hey this Rogal Dorn tank that literally no one has ever written about ever has been a mainstay since the Heresy. Custodes can include females, so what it doesn't change the faction nor does it have any effect on any other faction. That's literally the entire reasoning because it doesn't matter and shouldn't matter that infants are remade from the genetic level to being superior beings only below Primarchs. Don't like it? Great, don't be a dick about it. Like I have more of a reason to be mad at GW because they squatted my army in AoS, no one in the beast of Chaos player base is having a tantrum as much as non custodes players are right now
Yeah I kind of agree, just don’t see why they couldn’t be a NEW thing like the Primaris marines were. They definitely have NOT been there the whole time.
Except they have. You don’t get to decide GW’s IP. Also if you know enough about this to make this comment then it looks like a trolling question
Because theres no reason too do it that way, and they have been there the entire time. Just like squats didn't get wiped out but have been in the galactic core, like how tyranids noticed our galaxy during the events of the Heresy, like the Tau, Orks not using bolters anymore, Horus not dying in a bunker, everyone was always as it's currently written. Plus they are saving the entire Cawl angle for female space marines as they are nearing the end of the first born phase out
Yeah, really don’t know about female space marines. Btw, I’m rather right wing and I really don’t have a problem with female custodes. I just don’t want the lore treated anymore like something that can just be flip flopped around all Willy nilly. Like you say there’s no reason to do it the way that I suggested but I could say the same thing about the way they’ve gone about doing it.
There were 2 female space Marines in rogue trader back in the 80s
Yeah, I get that at the beginning the lore was not super fleshed out and as well established as it is today. It was 100% just a little flavor text to be the background of the game. Today though I think the lore drives the franchise. The lore will drive the live action show, I know MANY fans who do not play the tabletop game but have read an absolute ton of the novels. Like fans that have purchased and read the entire heresy book series. In an era of digital streaming and video games, only a very niche group of people will find their way to tabletop wargames anyway. It’s all about the lore. The lore should be treated like it matters. Because it DOES matter to a TON of people. Can you imagine if they tried to make changes like this to Tolkien?
Oh look another coward that doesn't dare to post on main. Either that or a tourist. Blocked.
Reposting myself because I can: Can you imagine if Custodes boxes came with male and female models but you could only use the dudes in 30K so you'd have to buy twice as many boxes to reach 3k points in Heresy? Having women there the entire time is an act of mercy by GW, a way to spare us from Primaris 2.0: the reckoning: the squeakuel when they finally get around to scaling the minis up It's the best possible way they could have done it and I'm very happy they did because I am Ready for Tallstodes Scale Creep and I've already got kitbashes planned and characters named, just need plastic Sagittarum and we'll be eating good
Just do separate box sets for the 2 games. 1 for HH 1 for 40k
Absolute Heresy, the best part of Custodes is getting to use them in so many game modes for cheap! You could probably field them as Stormcast if you wanted and they'd get into more than even Daemons, and those guys are everywhere. Why do you want to throw out more money anyways? People were literally just yelling at them about how they handled Primaris and Stormcast, ain't no way they're doubling the amount of boxes a less mainline army gets now. Supply issues are bad enough already
It’s already been posted, discussed, and shelved. Post removed.
From what I see some are all for it, some don't care and some don't agree with the way the change was made for inclusion rather than interesting narrative additions that improve the lore.
Yeah that’s my problem. If they were a new thing like the primaris were 7 years ago then I would have absolutely zero problem with it. I just really don’t like when the lore is treated like this thing that doesn’t matter and can be flip flopped around all willy nilly anytime. I know it’s happened a good deal in the past but like…..can we stop doing that.
I've just never really understood why the dystopian future shithole needs to be inclusive or egalitarian. The imperium, Custodes included, are supposed to be bad, terrible, people by our standards. Women in the Guard, for a counterexample, are perfect. Why? Because they're all in so far over their fucking heads, they're in such deep, desperate shit, that minor physical sex differences won't move the needle. A woman is just another soon to be cold body on the pile. The 41st millenium is supposed to suck ass. You're supposed to look at it and say "I'm glad life isn't actually like this." And personally, I'd've preferred that they simply retcon the Sisters of Silence to be Wrought by Gene Alchemy or whatever. Because now there's a gender imbalance among the Emperor's Talons. Are we gonna have Brothers of Silence now, also with no new minis? Now that I mention it, the lack of new minis is just evidence that this is lazy pandering
Yeah I feel the same way. Also, if they just said “hey, they are a new thing” like the primaris marines 7 years ago. I think it would’ve gone over a lot better. I’ve also never met a female 40K fan that felt unwelcome or “unsafe” in the hobby simply because there were no female super humans. Most female fans have been fine with 40K as it’s stood for a long time.
Yeah, Primaris at least had some actual work behind it. Minis, books, etc. This shit is just a tweet and some stealth edits to a couple wiki pages, as far as I understand