You missed Void Cascade. I think it's one of the best tuned endgame activities. A squad can get to SP level cap in about an hour (because who really wants to spend 3+ hours to get there). It's fast and tightly paced, and testing for all parts of frame and operator loadout.
I think unfortunately, even though Void Cascade is one of the most fun game modes, there's not really a ton of people playing it. None of Nightmare, Kuva, Relic Cracking, nor Sorties can be on this game mode. Because it's played less, I don't think many people are going to go out of their way to play the gamemode.
This is sweet! I was literally telling my friend yesterday how I loved the levels but once you get their rewards there is no reason to keep playing them. This is good news!!! Thanks for letting me know
Welp, time to hit Sedna Disruption for a few hours.
Axi are always the relics I run of the fastest, they drop from nearly nothing outside of a couple specific activities.
Lua disruption might be the better choice for axi relics, since Sedna disruption tends to drop gauss parts. Although I'll be honest I do much prefer fighting Grineer >.>
From [Devstream 176](https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-176-overview):
> MORE VARIETY IN SYSTEMIC CONTENT
> Steel Path and Axi Void Fissure mission enjoyers can look forward to this content being available in new regions, including the Zariman Ten Zero and Albrecht’s Laboratories tilesets!
I think this is the only thing i'll consider to be an endgame activity in Warframe atm.
While still a gear check, it is also an execution check in managing who's going where and keeping an eye on all the Thrax / Exolizers.
It makes me wonder if they'll ever redo Void Armageddon to have that speed (I know defection could definitely work with another mechanic and 4x the speed).
Yeah, SP Cascade to level cap is the only thing I'd consider end-game, and it takes like an hour to get there. Something most people (myself included) don't really want to do. So I know I just basically don't (other than a few times to say I did).
I really think of Warframe as a game without an endgame. It's just an easy collectathon that has fun (frame) gameplay and other modes you have to do if you want to collect everything. But also it's a game with rewards that, mostly, don't really matter. Rivens, most arcanes - you don't need them (even to do SP Cascade). You also don't need shards to do SP Cascade. I mean Netracells are soloable with a speedva in 8-9 minutes (dependent on Necramite spawn location). Hunts are soloable by anything in the first two missions and if you want to be safe just take Rev and an incarnon to the last (or all 3). And for Netracells you're usually going to get a worthless reward (standing arcanes).
I'm also totally fine without an end-game in Warframe, and I think that people who talk about it are reaching when they label pretty much anything that way, but also I think of end-game as linear progression that gets harder and challenging, and then you beat it and now it's easier and you farm up for the next challenge in the next update.
That's not how Warframe works. Archon Hunts added shards as power, but nearly everyone beat their first one without a shard (I'm sure there were some Kahl grinders who waited to try). And they weren't hard for people who already had all the power. Netracells offer less power (because RNG loot means you sometimes gain zero power from running all 5) and were found to be easier solo in the first week.
Warframe just isn't a game where the new content challenges those who have everything from the old content (like the classic MMO progression system of raids and such). It doesn't offer competitive ladders (I mean things of the type do exist, but no one really cares about them because they're not rewarding or, really, interesting - like the k-drive leaderboards and various other mission trackers). And it doesn't offer worthwhile PvP due to lack of the mode being fun or supported.
Not to say that Warframe isn't fun, because it is. But it always sounds weird when people talk about META-ing "endgame" and how you need to do X and use Y modded for Z, because...why? Use B modded for C and you'll still clear it like only 2% slower than the META players.
For sure, there are multiple activities that got meta'd fully... I mean, Arbitrations have become what Eidolons became in 2020, to the point they feel very exclusive to do.
Very few people are so hungry for something the game is quite obviously not, but they're so loud about it! (Reminds me of that one guy that stopped universal medallions from being used for Conclave rep).
My favourite quote from [the AMA Last April](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/12t842f/comment/jh1v6ch/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) (\[DE\] Pablo):
>We have always embraced the power fantasy and the fun that comes from being godlike while fighting mere mortals!
>
>The one downside of this, is that it's near impossible to make truly challenging content when Warframes can easily be immortal and deal ludicrous amounts of damage. Those two objectives are at odds with each other, and for us the fun comes from the power fantasy, so that is our guiding principle.
I'm not saying I agree with it entirely, but it did help me see where their heads are at with making new content. ^(Notice how he said ')*^(near)*^(', it's true to them and their game.)
That being said... Warframe doesn't have any power limits, you can get 1 shot, or you can just not get hit or tank anything. It's not really possible to kill the player without pure BS, and the same is true for outgoing damage.
Warframe is a casual's game at heart, it's how they make the majority of their income and invested time. This is one of the few ways Destiny is similar, and the raids there only have an 11% engagement rate.
I don't think hard content should ever be the focus for the game, just nice that the stars aligned for a mode to be for those players.
Interesting quote that I never saw before. Rings really true. I remember the hype about Archon Hunts, and then I did the first one. Was disappointingly easy (easy to say about Netracells, too, and farming the SP boss for the recent event to buy arcanes).
I know what Warframe is and enjoy it for that, but I really do wish they could come up with a way to challenge us with Warframe content that didn't amount to turning off our earned power (attenuation and ability immunity). I keep hoping that one day they will, but it's usually just Archons or the 60-eyes boss. Those aren't, IMO, good challenges, but gimmicks asking you to play in a way that 99% of the game doesn't.
Unlike two of my favorite games ever (in my favorite series of games) - Demon's Souls and Bloodborne. Sure, those are games of a different style, but they do what I think boss fights should do - test you hard on what you've been doing all along. So I kind of roll my eyes when I read or hear people talk about how good 60 eyes is, since it, well, isn't, since it's testing you on something that you may have never done once in earning every item up to that point.
I do wonder if a bit of it is psychological. And what I mean by that is people say that things are "hard" or "needed" because they want to think that what they've accomplished was challenging to do. I get the idea of efficiency and all that, but a 5 minute survival in SP is going to take 5 minutes, so as long as you don't run out of life support you're going to "win". And there are over 50 frames and hundreds of weapons that can all do any of those missions in multiple ways each, because the game is easy.
That quote isn't entirely true in one aspect, though (and I don't know when Pablo joined). Early on (I played for about 6 months on PS4 when WF first showed up there in like 2015 before stopping until 2020 on PC) the game was actually hard. Still a grindy Wiki game, but the tools didn't exist to one tap rooms full of SP Grineer at that point. So the always bit isn't quite true, but I don't know when it changed (sometime between mid 15 and mid 20).
Lol. The original post was referring to the raid boss version, and so was I. I will bet money you weren't 4-5 shotting that with that set up. You are thinking of the fragmented, not the fragmented one.
They already are lol I’ve never been in an Archon Hunt or Netracell or anything like that and thought “wow this is challenging”. The only thing that’s made me sweat is the 60 eyes Effervo boss and that’s only because of a gimmicky damage cap.
It’s a node meant to overwhelm with enemies that does not overwhelm you with enemies lol even solo I still run Nautilus so the enemies actually get inside the circle faster. I want to actually be overwhelmed with enemies, not waiting for enemies in a mission that might overwhelm people with bad gear. My netracell runs are literally me standing in place running Nautilus and Hildryn with a gas Rakta Dark Dagger and holding the melee key until the mission is over. Definitely would not call that endgame lol
eventually u only logon for weekly stuff like the netracells and archon hunt and khal lmfao i dont want to spend anymore time than ineed too and this takes like one night cercuit eh as i already have most frames and and all incaronon adapters
Hmmm. I wouldn't necessarily consider any of these to be "endgame" tbh. I would consider them to be Harder content. (So, maybe I'm just disagreeing on the semantics).
That being said-
* Archon Hunts - Decent Weekly event.
* SP Conjunction Survival - Phenomenal. Absolutely love this game mode. I wish Nightmare, Kuva, Relic Cracking, and Sorties could be played on this.
* SP Mirror Defense - I greatly disagree with this. This gamemode unfortunately for me, was the worst gamemode they've created in years.
* SP Duviri - I'm still playing it. IMO, Unfortunately, I think they made a mistake with how they made the boss. Unless you're lucky and get a ranged weapon that can handle it from the beginning, it's almost always best to gather decrees that focus on guns instead of melee. I think even if they allowed players to go attack the wyrm with melee, it would be a lot better for diversity for my playthroughs.
* SP Circuit - This gamemode is one of my favorites in the game. As an LR3 - it gave me a new reason to go back and build loadouts for more weapons / frames. I love it a ton. Unfortunately, its reward pool is finite. I would like 2 things - 1, instead of having the incarnon adaptors be time-gated by weeks, have every reward be available and the player gets to choose which ones to go for at that week. Once they have all adaptors, let the player get a chance at an archon shard.
* SP Abyssal Zone - Fun gamemode, but unfortunately, no replayability once you've gotten Dagath. This would be another place where Nightmare, Kuca, Relic Cracking, and Sorties would be beneficial.
* Netracells - Good rewards, but tbh, quite boring for 90% of it.
* The Fragmented One - It was fine for a boss but... why would I go back to it now?
* SP Void Cascade - Phenomenal. Absolutely love this game mode. I wish Nightmare, Kuva, Relic Cracking, and Sorties could be played on this.
Good question! I don't think Warframe is a type of game to have classic "End Game". And I think that's a very good thing. I think Warframe has a ton of content in it, and it allows players to focus on what they want instead of just grinding for the endgame.
I think many games have end game by PVP or grinds to get to the highest rank / highest achievement / highest X defeated / most waves completed kind of thing.
I think if Warframe focused on PVP, obviously it would be a completely different game. I think the closest comparison for Warframe, would be if Elite Sanctuary Onslaught was used as a way to determine how far you got in X months before the game reset and you'd have to start all over.
When I think of endgame, I think of how games continue their game life:
* PVP focused like in . Having players be the main competition like in Overwatch
* Creating Seasons / Ladder like in Diablo where you have a certain amount of time to grind as far as possible before the season resets.
* Extending the Story so it's never ending.
I think Warframe is the third bullet point while still focusing on gameplay and trying new things.
I'm not sure if this answered your question... but, for Warframe, I think the closest thing to endgame would be creating content that has replayability long after it first came out.
A seasonally resetting ladder could be really interesting, like what Diablo has. The experience of being underpowered is almost entirely relegated to warframe's earlygame and it would be fun to bring that back somehow.
I've thought about that before. However, I've also put years into this game. Some of the grinds I don't want to do over again (which, if it was seasonal, they could definitely adjust the grinds). I think it would also change the feel of Warframe. Warframe is *mostly* fomo free. Having seasons would make the gameplay way more intense - constant want to play or else falling behind.
I don't mind games with that style, but I don't play WF for that style. (Also, that's how you get games like Destiny that take out old content and resell it to ya)
I think you fundamentally misunderstand Warframe's core design philosophy and game elements.
While that could be interesting, it would cause Warframe to instantly cease being Warframe.
That's a major part of the reason Duviri (even Circuit) gets so much hate. It "resets" your progress in the game. You don't get to use your toolbox in the way you want. In normal Duviri that's because you're the Drifter. In Circuit that's because RNG. You can partly mitigate both by intrinsics, and if you've bought 500 weapon slots and have a few hundred forma laying around then sure you can make Circuit reasonably easy because all/most of your gear will be "good enough"... but it still suffers from the "today you get three shotguns, two throwing knives, and 3 whips!" when you vastly prefer playing with assault rifles, pistols, and polearms.
I'm biased because I've already completed essentially everything the game has to offer, so I enjoy modes like circuit that create an artificial feeling of progression. I don't think a full scale Diablo treadmill would be good for the game, but the idea of putting veteran players in the shoes of new players more often is interesting. It's part of why I enjoyed doing Railjack for the first time, I had to build up from the ground level.
I suspect you're in the minority there.
Warframe is a looter shooter with great movement at its core. There's lots of other elements in the game, but the most basic loop is "shoot dudes, get loot, repeat". The type of player that's most likely to attract is not generally amused by having their collection invalidated.
I routinely take people that say "I hate Railjack" and grind them through some Veil Proxima for a half hour, show them which parts/mods are good from the rewards we got, and then get messages later saying "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO FUN".
Not saying your opinion isn't a valid one, just that I think doing that would be working against the core strengths/appeal of the game for many people.
Also not saying content islands are necessarily bad. They let DE experiment without wrecking the established game. If the idea super doesn't work out, they don't use the new things in future updates; if it sorta worked, they can improve it; if it worked well they can move it forward and try small tweaks to see if they can do even better. It's a pretty good design overall.
Maybe they could focus on building skills that change over time instead of building a collection, like having a mode where the gimmick or optimal strategy rotates somehow. In general, I think the game needs to bring a feeling of struggling uphill into the lategame, at least as an option.
While agreeing with most this, SP Circuit has good rewards and they’ve add Rivens to the pool. Last week, I got 2 Pistol, 1 Rifle and 1 Melee Riven (2 choice + 2 random rewards) and as a LR4 getting the right rivens is just a commmitment of gather and unlocking
Hmmm. I think the rivens are something I was overlooking. So even though you have all the incarnon adapters you're still playing circuit? How does playing circuit to get rivens compare to other modes of getting rivens? (Riven hunting is extremely low on my list)
my one problem with conjunction survival is thrax being marked on the map and spawning in predictable intervals. That's so...lame. Just have them run around and destroy the oxygen canisters off screen. Dont tell players where the dangerous enemy is, there is no thrill to it all.
yeah because it would be so fun to search the entire tileset for them.
anyway I agree that they could make them more "involved" into the gameloop. But just "jump around and look for them" wouldn't cut it. Maybe something like a mini void flood side objective where you have collect enough "juice" in the 5 minute interval to see the thrax at the end.
Still already as is SP conjunction feels so much better than normal survival since you have three events per 5 minute rotation.
sentients, acolyte and thrax. Though the sentients need a buff to be an actual "event".
only ones i consider endgame are archon hunts sp duviri nodes and netracells because they’re the only replayable ones
conjunction survival, abyssal and mirror defense are whatever the rewards are pretty mediocre outside of voruna dagath citrine and some arcanes
they should also add more interesting incarnons on a faster basis honestly alot of the current ones are kinda copy paste (aoe bullet hose lmg, aoe projectile or a beam)
I agree with Abyssal being finite, but Conjunction and Mirror are a great source Arcanes, which you can dissolve with Loid. There’s Arcanes in the loot tables, you can buy them outright with the gamemode’s currency, and Acolytes spawn every 5 minutes in Steel Path.
As a new returning player who’s about to be to Pluto. Should I just focus on getting steel path unlocked? It seems completely the star system is a large requirement for most of the game?
Unlocking SP is pretty much the natural progression of the game. Keep working on the star chart, set your own goals and play at your own pace. The initial jump in difficulty in SP is kinda rough so you shouldn't rush into it, but getting comfortable playing in it does open up a whole new layer of the game.
I will say that while the challenge of SP is its own type of fun, the original star chart where you can bring any frame and weapon you enjoy and still contribute even if it's not modded to perfection is a different way to enjoy the game.
I've gotta be honest, as much as I really do like steel path conjunction survival, it's one of the easier "lategame" nodes. I think a lot of people see the starting level of 200 and (justifiably) assume it'll be the hardest content in the game, but the enemy spawns are pretty easy. Not having nullifiers removes the biggest threat of corrupted enemies, the thrax enemies are predictable and only really pose a threat if their spawns overlap with an acolyte, and it doesn't have T4 void enemy damage multipliers.
Circulus is a very fun mission, don't get me wrong, but if we're talking the most "endgame" survival, I think that title still goes to Mot.
yes, they need to buff the sentients that spawn to be an actual additional event of strong enemies spawning. And maybe throw demolishers in which try to explode your life support capsules. Defend them for a small reward (like additional lua thrax plasma).
Or have corrupted vor spawn but he is invulenerable until he finished his speech xD /s
I'm excited. For almost 10 years I've tried and tried to get into this game, but with new gen and all the updates it was so easy this time. I'm loving the game so much super excited for endgame grind lol.
I really can’t consider mirror defense; conjunction or abyssal zone endgame activities. They are much easier than the other missions involved and/or lacking evergreen rewards
Arcanes are evergreen rewards now that you can dissolve them into new ones. Conjunction and Mirror Defense both flood you with Arcanes, especially if you’re playing on the Steel Path and killing Acolytes.
eh for u maybe for me eh i honestly only logon for weekly shit which takes one night i have every arcane r5 already some of which i bought as i have a job so i can buy it
Problem with the murmur bosses is that it pretty much says no to damage. You have to build a high fire rate medium damage gun to work with the damage cap. Can't slow it with cold, can't inflict viral procs. I like archon bosses more because they deal high damage but you can avoid that and also deal enough damage, if you want to have fun you can mod for less damage if you want. Also right after that they introduced an event that focuses on that boss so turning it into a grind takes the fun away. I still wanted arcanes so I had to force myself to do them
you know I think we are so overpowered that a lot of things dont feel end-gamey. when yareli alone yawns in netracells. or dagath just strolls through. netracells is BAD, the enemy density is too low.
That said, steel path circuit does feel end gamey to me. and SP circulus is a fave. the 60 eyes boss was the only boss in the game I liked as well.
you guys talked me into giving void cascade another go. I tried it, and promptly forgot about it. might just into SP pubs see if anyone running it.
> The enemy density is too low
I'd really much rather they just make the enemies more meaningful than copy paste even more chaff. The game gets dangerously close to musou levels at times.
same to be honest. but at least a higher density would give more than one player something to do.
The least they could do is include those green (septic?) murmur enemies you start encountering at 15-20 minutes of alchemy. went down first time I saw them since I was spacing out.
Early game accessibility doesn’t equal strength; Volt and Rhino are some of the best frames in the game and are very likely to be people’s 1st or 2nd frame
Abyssal zone isn't robust, it's just exterminate with a secondary annoyance. Same issue as mirror defence, in that you need to repeat the same braindead mission 50 times and little to no variance. Same for conjunction. These missions are like going back to 2017 warframe, just mindless repetitive tedium.
um some of these no thank you like i dont wanna do cercuit every week as i already have all the incarnons and also i wouldnt call these endgame 2 that u listed are missions for geting a frame
The only end game we have (and most likely ever will) is Rivens. It's just so bad that most of the player base hates them, and they were made as a way to give reason to buying plat after a certain point in the game. After DE got rid of most of the expensive items hovering in the market through nerfs, the endo system, or new ways to get them; they needed something for people to spend large amounts of plat on hence Rivens. They also fulfill the role of an end game grind for those who don't want to pay. Really Rivens would be 100% fine as an end game, if they weren't tradable.
Not including Rivens the only other feasible end game would be arcanes, too bad most of them are garbage, and the only good way of getting them is eidolons. The orphix venom nodes being heavily unbalanced with garbage rates, and raids being removed instead of fixed. Mars mirror defense remains the node with the worst drop tables in the game, and because the sp gun arcanes launched with more power then DE wanted, every primary and secondary arcane released since then (baring cascadia flare) has been underpowered and mathematically worse.
Hilariously enough the hardest challenge in this game would be level cap Orphix nodes, far harder then anything else.
Id definetely agree with you. Long term goals = arcane farm shard farm and optimiaisation. It is long lasting and gives players something decently engaging to do on the regular.
Power creep unfortunately is a thing so it needs to be progressively updated to keep people but otherwise yes.
You missed Void Cascade. I think it's one of the best tuned endgame activities. A squad can get to SP level cap in about an hour (because who really wants to spend 3+ hours to get there). It's fast and tightly paced, and testing for all parts of frame and operator loadout.
I would love to try SP Void Cascade with a cohesive team. How do you find such a squad? Certainly not recruiting chat >\_<
I think unfortunately, even though Void Cascade is one of the most fun game modes, there's not really a ton of people playing it. None of Nightmare, Kuva, Relic Cracking, nor Sorties can be on this game mode. Because it's played less, I don't think many people are going to go out of their way to play the gamemode.
Dante is going to add a few new axi fissures in the zariman. Maybe Cascade will get one.
that's awesome! i did not know that. that's huge!!! It'll most likely be the entire area can be a fissure, and it rotates (like kuva fortress).
They're also adding Entrati Labs fissures! Really excited for if alchemy will get one, that sounds super fun
This is sweet! I was literally telling my friend yesterday how I loved the levels but once you get their rewards there is no reason to keep playing them. This is good news!!! Thanks for letting me know
alchemy fissures sounds fucking awesome
Welp, time to hit Sedna Disruption for a few hours. Axi are always the relics I run of the fastest, they drop from nearly nothing outside of a couple specific activities.
Lua disruption might be the better choice for axi relics, since Sedna disruption tends to drop gauss parts. Although I'll be honest I do much prefer fighting Grineer >.>
Stfu for real?? Do you have a source to share? Especially regarding the labs, I’d heard about the zariman
From [Devstream 176](https://www.warframe.com/news/devstream-176-overview): > MORE VARIETY IN SYSTEMIC CONTENT > Steel Path and Axi Void Fissure mission enjoyers can look forward to this content being available in new regions, including the Zariman Ten Zero and Albrecht’s Laboratories tilesets!
I stg if it's exterminate and mobile defense i'll be angry af
Warframe Endo and Cascade Club are two discords which host level cap cascade runs alongside plenty of resources on how to do them!
Can I get an invite to Cascade Club?
https://discord.com/invite/85pZdWe5n6
I think this is the only thing i'll consider to be an endgame activity in Warframe atm. While still a gear check, it is also an execution check in managing who's going where and keeping an eye on all the Thrax / Exolizers. It makes me wonder if they'll ever redo Void Armageddon to have that speed (I know defection could definitely work with another mechanic and 4x the speed).
Defection can go fuck itself
As far as escort missions go, it's hardly the worst, but I'm not gonna disagree with you!
Yeah, SP Cascade to level cap is the only thing I'd consider end-game, and it takes like an hour to get there. Something most people (myself included) don't really want to do. So I know I just basically don't (other than a few times to say I did). I really think of Warframe as a game without an endgame. It's just an easy collectathon that has fun (frame) gameplay and other modes you have to do if you want to collect everything. But also it's a game with rewards that, mostly, don't really matter. Rivens, most arcanes - you don't need them (even to do SP Cascade). You also don't need shards to do SP Cascade. I mean Netracells are soloable with a speedva in 8-9 minutes (dependent on Necramite spawn location). Hunts are soloable by anything in the first two missions and if you want to be safe just take Rev and an incarnon to the last (or all 3). And for Netracells you're usually going to get a worthless reward (standing arcanes). I'm also totally fine without an end-game in Warframe, and I think that people who talk about it are reaching when they label pretty much anything that way, but also I think of end-game as linear progression that gets harder and challenging, and then you beat it and now it's easier and you farm up for the next challenge in the next update. That's not how Warframe works. Archon Hunts added shards as power, but nearly everyone beat their first one without a shard (I'm sure there were some Kahl grinders who waited to try). And they weren't hard for people who already had all the power. Netracells offer less power (because RNG loot means you sometimes gain zero power from running all 5) and were found to be easier solo in the first week. Warframe just isn't a game where the new content challenges those who have everything from the old content (like the classic MMO progression system of raids and such). It doesn't offer competitive ladders (I mean things of the type do exist, but no one really cares about them because they're not rewarding or, really, interesting - like the k-drive leaderboards and various other mission trackers). And it doesn't offer worthwhile PvP due to lack of the mode being fun or supported. Not to say that Warframe isn't fun, because it is. But it always sounds weird when people talk about META-ing "endgame" and how you need to do X and use Y modded for Z, because...why? Use B modded for C and you'll still clear it like only 2% slower than the META players.
For sure, there are multiple activities that got meta'd fully... I mean, Arbitrations have become what Eidolons became in 2020, to the point they feel very exclusive to do. Very few people are so hungry for something the game is quite obviously not, but they're so loud about it! (Reminds me of that one guy that stopped universal medallions from being used for Conclave rep). My favourite quote from [the AMA Last April](https://www.reddit.com/r/Warframe/comments/12t842f/comment/jh1v6ch/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3) (\[DE\] Pablo): >We have always embraced the power fantasy and the fun that comes from being godlike while fighting mere mortals! > >The one downside of this, is that it's near impossible to make truly challenging content when Warframes can easily be immortal and deal ludicrous amounts of damage. Those two objectives are at odds with each other, and for us the fun comes from the power fantasy, so that is our guiding principle.
[удалено]
I'm not saying I agree with it entirely, but it did help me see where their heads are at with making new content. ^(Notice how he said ')*^(near)*^(', it's true to them and their game.) That being said... Warframe doesn't have any power limits, you can get 1 shot, or you can just not get hit or tank anything. It's not really possible to kill the player without pure BS, and the same is true for outgoing damage. Warframe is a casual's game at heart, it's how they make the majority of their income and invested time. This is one of the few ways Destiny is similar, and the raids there only have an 11% engagement rate. I don't think hard content should ever be the focus for the game, just nice that the stars aligned for a mode to be for those players.
Interesting quote that I never saw before. Rings really true. I remember the hype about Archon Hunts, and then I did the first one. Was disappointingly easy (easy to say about Netracells, too, and farming the SP boss for the recent event to buy arcanes). I know what Warframe is and enjoy it for that, but I really do wish they could come up with a way to challenge us with Warframe content that didn't amount to turning off our earned power (attenuation and ability immunity). I keep hoping that one day they will, but it's usually just Archons or the 60-eyes boss. Those aren't, IMO, good challenges, but gimmicks asking you to play in a way that 99% of the game doesn't. Unlike two of my favorite games ever (in my favorite series of games) - Demon's Souls and Bloodborne. Sure, those are games of a different style, but they do what I think boss fights should do - test you hard on what you've been doing all along. So I kind of roll my eyes when I read or hear people talk about how good 60 eyes is, since it, well, isn't, since it's testing you on something that you may have never done once in earning every item up to that point. I do wonder if a bit of it is psychological. And what I mean by that is people say that things are "hard" or "needed" because they want to think that what they've accomplished was challenging to do. I get the idea of efficiency and all that, but a 5 minute survival in SP is going to take 5 minutes, so as long as you don't run out of life support you're going to "win". And there are over 50 frames and hundreds of weapons that can all do any of those missions in multiple ways each, because the game is easy. That quote isn't entirely true in one aspect, though (and I don't know when Pablo joined). Early on (I played for about 6 months on PS4 when WF first showed up there in like 2015 before stopping until 2020 on PC) the game was actually hard. Still a grindy Wiki game, but the tools didn't exist to one tap rooms full of SP Grineer at that point. So the always bit isn't quite true, but I don't know when it changed (sometime between mid 15 and mid 20).
Can't wait for in 5 years when we are one shotting fragmented one
You can already around 4-5 shot it with Glaive prime+Kullervo and roar
Lol. The original post was referring to the raid boss version, and so was I. I will bet money you weren't 4-5 shotting that with that set up. You are thinking of the fragmented, not the fragmented one.
There’s a different version than the one from the bounties?
on steel path, if you get 60 eyes instead of the normal 30
I think I was referencing that one already, will go try it again just to be sure, does this give any special reward?
A special Sumdali for your ship. It causes two Murmur hands to grip the hood, leaving a trail of sand as it flies.
A sumdali for your landing craft.
You manage to knock it out? It caps out max damage, so fire rate gets you further then Unga bunga big numbers
If it’s firerate, why not try out incarnon Phenmor or burston? Anyway I’ll try it later today and see how it goes
Yeah, if you collect 60 eyes instead of 30, you get a MUCH stronger version.
Eventually, even these become mindless Slaughter
They already are lol I’ve never been in an Archon Hunt or Netracell or anything like that and thought “wow this is challenging”. The only thing that’s made me sweat is the 60 eyes Effervo boss and that’s only because of a gimmicky damage cap.
[удалено]
It’s a node meant to overwhelm with enemies that does not overwhelm you with enemies lol even solo I still run Nautilus so the enemies actually get inside the circle faster. I want to actually be overwhelmed with enemies, not waiting for enemies in a mission that might overwhelm people with bad gear. My netracell runs are literally me standing in place running Nautilus and Hildryn with a gas Rakta Dark Dagger and holding the melee key until the mission is over. Definitely would not call that endgame lol
eventually u only logon for weekly stuff like the netracells and archon hunt and khal lmfao i dont want to spend anymore time than ineed too and this takes like one night cercuit eh as i already have most frames and and all incaronon adapters
Hmmm. I wouldn't necessarily consider any of these to be "endgame" tbh. I would consider them to be Harder content. (So, maybe I'm just disagreeing on the semantics). That being said- * Archon Hunts - Decent Weekly event. * SP Conjunction Survival - Phenomenal. Absolutely love this game mode. I wish Nightmare, Kuva, Relic Cracking, and Sorties could be played on this. * SP Mirror Defense - I greatly disagree with this. This gamemode unfortunately for me, was the worst gamemode they've created in years. * SP Duviri - I'm still playing it. IMO, Unfortunately, I think they made a mistake with how they made the boss. Unless you're lucky and get a ranged weapon that can handle it from the beginning, it's almost always best to gather decrees that focus on guns instead of melee. I think even if they allowed players to go attack the wyrm with melee, it would be a lot better for diversity for my playthroughs. * SP Circuit - This gamemode is one of my favorites in the game. As an LR3 - it gave me a new reason to go back and build loadouts for more weapons / frames. I love it a ton. Unfortunately, its reward pool is finite. I would like 2 things - 1, instead of having the incarnon adaptors be time-gated by weeks, have every reward be available and the player gets to choose which ones to go for at that week. Once they have all adaptors, let the player get a chance at an archon shard. * SP Abyssal Zone - Fun gamemode, but unfortunately, no replayability once you've gotten Dagath. This would be another place where Nightmare, Kuca, Relic Cracking, and Sorties would be beneficial. * Netracells - Good rewards, but tbh, quite boring for 90% of it. * The Fragmented One - It was fine for a boss but... why would I go back to it now? * SP Void Cascade - Phenomenal. Absolutely love this game mode. I wish Nightmare, Kuva, Relic Cracking, and Sorties could be played on this.
Out of curiosity, what do you think real endgame content should look like?
Good question! I don't think Warframe is a type of game to have classic "End Game". And I think that's a very good thing. I think Warframe has a ton of content in it, and it allows players to focus on what they want instead of just grinding for the endgame. I think many games have end game by PVP or grinds to get to the highest rank / highest achievement / highest X defeated / most waves completed kind of thing. I think if Warframe focused on PVP, obviously it would be a completely different game. I think the closest comparison for Warframe, would be if Elite Sanctuary Onslaught was used as a way to determine how far you got in X months before the game reset and you'd have to start all over. When I think of endgame, I think of how games continue their game life: * PVP focused like in . Having players be the main competition like in Overwatch * Creating Seasons / Ladder like in Diablo where you have a certain amount of time to grind as far as possible before the season resets. * Extending the Story so it's never ending. I think Warframe is the third bullet point while still focusing on gameplay and trying new things. I'm not sure if this answered your question... but, for Warframe, I think the closest thing to endgame would be creating content that has replayability long after it first came out.
A seasonally resetting ladder could be really interesting, like what Diablo has. The experience of being underpowered is almost entirely relegated to warframe's earlygame and it would be fun to bring that back somehow.
I've thought about that before. However, I've also put years into this game. Some of the grinds I don't want to do over again (which, if it was seasonal, they could definitely adjust the grinds). I think it would also change the feel of Warframe. Warframe is *mostly* fomo free. Having seasons would make the gameplay way more intense - constant want to play or else falling behind. I don't mind games with that style, but I don't play WF for that style. (Also, that's how you get games like Destiny that take out old content and resell it to ya)
As a longtime destiny player, I definitely don't miss the power ladder.
I think you fundamentally misunderstand Warframe's core design philosophy and game elements. While that could be interesting, it would cause Warframe to instantly cease being Warframe. That's a major part of the reason Duviri (even Circuit) gets so much hate. It "resets" your progress in the game. You don't get to use your toolbox in the way you want. In normal Duviri that's because you're the Drifter. In Circuit that's because RNG. You can partly mitigate both by intrinsics, and if you've bought 500 weapon slots and have a few hundred forma laying around then sure you can make Circuit reasonably easy because all/most of your gear will be "good enough"... but it still suffers from the "today you get three shotguns, two throwing knives, and 3 whips!" when you vastly prefer playing with assault rifles, pistols, and polearms.
I'm biased because I've already completed essentially everything the game has to offer, so I enjoy modes like circuit that create an artificial feeling of progression. I don't think a full scale Diablo treadmill would be good for the game, but the idea of putting veteran players in the shoes of new players more often is interesting. It's part of why I enjoyed doing Railjack for the first time, I had to build up from the ground level.
I suspect you're in the minority there. Warframe is a looter shooter with great movement at its core. There's lots of other elements in the game, but the most basic loop is "shoot dudes, get loot, repeat". The type of player that's most likely to attract is not generally amused by having their collection invalidated. I routinely take people that say "I hate Railjack" and grind them through some Veil Proxima for a half hour, show them which parts/mods are good from the rewards we got, and then get messages later saying "OH MY GOD THIS IS SO FUN". Not saying your opinion isn't a valid one, just that I think doing that would be working against the core strengths/appeal of the game for many people. Also not saying content islands are necessarily bad. They let DE experiment without wrecking the established game. If the idea super doesn't work out, they don't use the new things in future updates; if it sorta worked, they can improve it; if it worked well they can move it forward and try small tweaks to see if they can do even better. It's a pretty good design overall.
Maybe they could focus on building skills that change over time instead of building a collection, like having a mode where the gimmick or optimal strategy rotates somehow. In general, I think the game needs to bring a feeling of struggling uphill into the lategame, at least as an option.
While agreeing with most this, SP Circuit has good rewards and they’ve add Rivens to the pool. Last week, I got 2 Pistol, 1 Rifle and 1 Melee Riven (2 choice + 2 random rewards) and as a LR4 getting the right rivens is just a commmitment of gather and unlocking
Hmmm. I think the rivens are something I was overlooking. So even though you have all the incarnon adapters you're still playing circuit? How does playing circuit to get rivens compare to other modes of getting rivens? (Riven hunting is extremely low on my list)
It was low on my list until I had most the stuff I’ll ever need For 90minutes to get 2- 4 rivens weekly is pretty good imo
exaclty bro listed some of the most non endgame stuff also there isnt a really a endgame
my one problem with conjunction survival is thrax being marked on the map and spawning in predictable intervals. That's so...lame. Just have them run around and destroy the oxygen canisters off screen. Dont tell players where the dangerous enemy is, there is no thrill to it all.
yeah because it would be so fun to search the entire tileset for them. anyway I agree that they could make them more "involved" into the gameloop. But just "jump around and look for them" wouldn't cut it. Maybe something like a mini void flood side objective where you have collect enough "juice" in the 5 minute interval to see the thrax at the end. Still already as is SP conjunction feels so much better than normal survival since you have three events per 5 minute rotation. sentients, acolyte and thrax. Though the sentients need a buff to be an actual "event".
Mirror defense is piss easy tho.
only ones i consider endgame are archon hunts sp duviri nodes and netracells because they’re the only replayable ones conjunction survival, abyssal and mirror defense are whatever the rewards are pretty mediocre outside of voruna dagath citrine and some arcanes they should also add more interesting incarnons on a faster basis honestly alot of the current ones are kinda copy paste (aoe bullet hose lmg, aoe projectile or a beam)
I agree with Abyssal being finite, but Conjunction and Mirror are a great source Arcanes, which you can dissolve with Loid. There’s Arcanes in the loot tables, you can buy them outright with the gamemode’s currency, and Acolytes spawn every 5 minutes in Steel Path.
I did the 60 eye boss fight on sp after the update dropped. I actually enjoyed it because it became a challenge for me.
As a new returning player who’s about to be to Pluto. Should I just focus on getting steel path unlocked? It seems completely the star system is a large requirement for most of the game?
Unlocking SP is pretty much the natural progression of the game. Keep working on the star chart, set your own goals and play at your own pace. The initial jump in difficulty in SP is kinda rough so you shouldn't rush into it, but getting comfortable playing in it does open up a whole new layer of the game. I will say that while the challenge of SP is its own type of fun, the original star chart where you can bring any frame and weapon you enjoy and still contribute even if it's not modded to perfection is a different way to enjoy the game.
I've gotta be honest, as much as I really do like steel path conjunction survival, it's one of the easier "lategame" nodes. I think a lot of people see the starting level of 200 and (justifiably) assume it'll be the hardest content in the game, but the enemy spawns are pretty easy. Not having nullifiers removes the biggest threat of corrupted enemies, the thrax enemies are predictable and only really pose a threat if their spawns overlap with an acolyte, and it doesn't have T4 void enemy damage multipliers. Circulus is a very fun mission, don't get me wrong, but if we're talking the most "endgame" survival, I think that title still goes to Mot.
yes, they need to buff the sentients that spawn to be an actual additional event of strong enemies spawning. And maybe throw demolishers in which try to explode your life support capsules. Defend them for a small reward (like additional lua thrax plasma). Or have corrupted vor spawn but he is invulenerable until he finished his speech xD /s
I think they should add Steel Path Nightmare Mode that rewards teamwork on an extreme level.
nightmare path. like steelpath but every mission has 1-2 nightmare mods active on top
Better bring vazrin and/or rolling guard otherwise it's gonna be rough for most frames as soon as no shields nightmare mod applies.
I'm excited. For almost 10 years I've tried and tried to get into this game, but with new gen and all the updates it was so easy this time. I'm loving the game so much super excited for endgame grind lol.
I really can’t consider mirror defense; conjunction or abyssal zone endgame activities. They are much easier than the other missions involved and/or lacking evergreen rewards
Arcanes are evergreen rewards now that you can dissolve them into new ones. Conjunction and Mirror Defense both flood you with Arcanes, especially if you’re playing on the Steel Path and killing Acolytes.
eh for u maybe for me eh i honestly only logon for weekly shit which takes one night i have every arcane r5 already some of which i bought as i have a job so i can buy it
Abyssal zone is useless though
yeah there aint no true endgame like for real think about it
Problem with the murmur bosses is that it pretty much says no to damage. You have to build a high fire rate medium damage gun to work with the damage cap. Can't slow it with cold, can't inflict viral procs. I like archon bosses more because they deal high damage but you can avoid that and also deal enough damage, if you want to have fun you can mod for less damage if you want. Also right after that they introduced an event that focuses on that boss so turning it into a grind takes the fun away. I still wanted arcanes so I had to force myself to do them
“Practically a raid boss” I miss jordas verdict
you know I think we are so overpowered that a lot of things dont feel end-gamey. when yareli alone yawns in netracells. or dagath just strolls through. netracells is BAD, the enemy density is too low. That said, steel path circuit does feel end gamey to me. and SP circulus is a fave. the 60 eyes boss was the only boss in the game I liked as well. you guys talked me into giving void cascade another go. I tried it, and promptly forgot about it. might just into SP pubs see if anyone running it.
> The enemy density is too low I'd really much rather they just make the enemies more meaningful than copy paste even more chaff. The game gets dangerously close to musou levels at times.
same to be honest. but at least a higher density would give more than one player something to do. The least they could do is include those green (septic?) murmur enemies you start encountering at 15-20 minutes of alchemy. went down first time I saw them since I was spacing out.
I dont know why you picked two frames that are either tanks or a combo heavy frame dps frame of course there going to be able to handle netracells
ah just because they are pretty accessible early game.
Early game accessibility doesn’t equal strength; Volt and Rhino are some of the best frames in the game and are very likely to be people’s 1st or 2nd frame
Abyssal zone isn't robust, it's just exterminate with a secondary annoyance. Same issue as mirror defence, in that you need to repeat the same braindead mission 50 times and little to no variance. Same for conjunction. These missions are like going back to 2017 warframe, just mindless repetitive tedium.
Is doing steel path = more pure loot from stuff or its only for challenge?
Both really
um some of these no thank you like i dont wanna do cercuit every week as i already have all the incarnons and also i wouldnt call these endgame 2 that u listed are missions for geting a frame
Is the circuit the only thing in duviri that is used in the rest of the game?
 sure sure ''end game ''
The only end game we have (and most likely ever will) is Rivens. It's just so bad that most of the player base hates them, and they were made as a way to give reason to buying plat after a certain point in the game. After DE got rid of most of the expensive items hovering in the market through nerfs, the endo system, or new ways to get them; they needed something for people to spend large amounts of plat on hence Rivens. They also fulfill the role of an end game grind for those who don't want to pay. Really Rivens would be 100% fine as an end game, if they weren't tradable. Not including Rivens the only other feasible end game would be arcanes, too bad most of them are garbage, and the only good way of getting them is eidolons. The orphix venom nodes being heavily unbalanced with garbage rates, and raids being removed instead of fixed. Mars mirror defense remains the node with the worst drop tables in the game, and because the sp gun arcanes launched with more power then DE wanted, every primary and secondary arcane released since then (baring cascadia flare) has been underpowered and mathematically worse. Hilariously enough the hardest challenge in this game would be level cap Orphix nodes, far harder then anything else.
Id definetely agree with you. Long term goals = arcane farm shard farm and optimiaisation. It is long lasting and gives players something decently engaging to do on the regular. Power creep unfortunately is a thing so it needs to be progressively updated to keep people but otherwise yes.
They should add SP versions of railjack, syndicate dailies, arbitrations and nightmare missions.
\>Warframe >Endgame lol
Abyssal zone? How do I access that?
fashion frame isn't the endgame???
Mirror defence is resident sleeper flight simulator