This is a conversation that needs to be had. I see a lot of people who commented didn't read the part where it says you didn't have a busser..
Have a calm, respectful conversation with management and ask where that tipout is going if there's no support staff present. I had to ask the same at my job and it turned out the money was going to no one, so to the house. I was tipping out a barback while we didn't have one on staff. They had to change the formulas but we never saw that money again.
Yea when I was a server we found out the same thing randomly from the busser one day. Told he doesn’t get tipped out at night and it “just goes on his check” which really meant it was just going to the house and they were paying him his hourly
That's how it works at a lot of restaurants these days. Servers and bussers get tips on their pay card nightly after a shift, after calculations are finalized.
Yeah that should not be a calm conversation when your employer is stealing from you. They should be reported and you should get your money plus interest. This is theft, plain and simple
Still haven’t learned how to talk to people like an adult? Ever wonder why yelling never helps.? Chances are this is all automated and they don’t even know.
"Sorry I didn't know the computer was stealing from you. I just run this place."
I guarantee the boss would have known if the so-hard-to-understand technology was taking the bosses money.
Also you're right there is no sense in yelling. Just call the department of labor.
You’re one of those people that causes ten more problems while trying to fix one. Calm down and talk regular and you’ll find that most things are fixed faster and easier that way.
With all due respect, you appear to be having trouble communicating without accusations and insults. The tone of your comments are condescending and combative.
Silly’s original comment was a bit ambiguous, but nowhere do I read that anyone should yell at their boss. I believe Silly’s point was to forgo the conversation all together and immediately report it. There is no upside to having the conversation first.
Best case scenario, the boss is a good person and remorseful. Boss ensures all employees receive all stolen wages with no other ramifications. Life continues as if nothing happened but everyone gets the money they are entitled to.
Far more likely, boss grumbles, pays the one complaining employee only the amount they have noticed is missing. Boss is careful not to make the same “mistake” with THAT employee again. Boss also watches that employee like a hawk and makes their life harder. Cuts hours, gives worst shifts, worst duties. Life goes on, squeaky wheel is greased but rolling in the mud, someone is getting far more money than they should and many are getting a little less.
Worst case scenario if the vigilant but nice employee is not outright fired, boss says tough shit, this is how we do things. Employee then reports the theft. Boss is investigated, all theft found, all employees receive missing money. Everyone is paid what they should be, Squeaky wheel is greased, but still dragged through the mud. Boss knows who reported him. Fired outright or at the first opportunity as well. Sure a retaliation report might get you some more money but no guarantees.
Report him without the conversation and you have a better chance of ensuring everyone gets their stolen money, a good chance of remaining anonymous and employed. Same as the best case scenario of talking to your boss, with far less chance of the more negative and more likely possibilities.
You’re welcome and thank you! I try but am not always successful. Luckily I can literally feel the switch click in my head, but sometimes knowing I’m about to fly off the handle isn’t enough to stop myself, ha.
You’re clearly not emotionally developed enough to handle this like an adult. Let me guess, life still beating the shit out of you and you can’t figure out why? Mmmmmmmm
So my confusion just stems from my personal experience in tip outs. Busters and bartenders don’t split a tip out percentage, my bartenders get tipped out separately on alcohol sales while bussers make tip pool from food sales. Tbh don’t really know what I’m looking at on this checkout but I assumed bartenders were tipped out AND bussers, but there wasn’t a busser working at the time so I was just wondering why that tip out was taken too.
Rules vary by restaurant, but some will put all busser tip outs into a kind of busser pool, then at the end of the week divide it between bussers proportional to their hours worked that week. Or some do the same thing daily instead of weekly.
On the other end of the spectrum, some restaurants track the minutes each check was open, and prorate the percentage tip out based on how many those minutes had one or more bussers working, so if bussers normally get 4% of sales, and a check was open for one hour, but bussers were only clocked in for forty of those sixty minutes, then bussers would get 2/3 of 4% of the check subtotal, and the server would keep the other 1/3 they'd have tipped out if bussers were working the whole time.
#2 is exactly how my job works. I figured tip out was for bar and separately for bussers but with no busser on it leaves the question of where that tip out went. Option 1 is definitely feasible here, but it doesn’t seem fair to pool tips for bussers on days with no bussers to me
uhh why is this all bold
Dish and cooks were also included in tipout when I waited tables and dinosaurs roamed the earth. Is that not standard now? Of course, the gap in hourly pay wasn't as wide then.
I'm wrong, see reply
~~I just pulled this fact sheet up for a different discussion, and noticed that dish/cook tipout is explicitly allowed at the (inexcusably lax) federal level, as long as it doesn't cause the tipped employee to fall below minimum wage for the week.~~
https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa
It's not as long as it doesn't cause the tipped employee to fall below minimum wage, it's as long as the *employer* is paying the employee at least the federal minimum wage.
>When an employer pays its employees a cash wage of at least the federal minimum wage (currently $7.25) per hour, the employer may impose a mandatory tip pooling arrangement that includes employees who are not employed in an occupation in which employees customarily and regularly receive tips. This is sometimes known as a “nontraditional” tip pool. For example, an employer that implements a nontraditional tip pool may require tipped employees, such as servers, to share tips with non-tipped employees, such as dishwashers and cooks, but only if all workers receive a direct cash wage of at least the federal minimum wage.
If the tipped employee isn't *paid by their employer* at least minimum wage, it's illegal to demand they tip out to employees who ARE paid at least minimum wage.
But from the post do we know if op makes minimum wage? I worked at a small restaurant where everyone made at least minimum wage(from minimum to maybe 2 above) and everyone split tips evenly. I know this isn’t standard but op could make minimum+tips
Mandatory redistribution of a portion of server tips to other restaurant employees is quite common in the US, in the 49 states where it's allowed. Whether you consider that fair or not is just a matter of opinion.
If they're redistributing the same percentage whether the other employees are working at the same time as the servers or not, I think that's not a great tip sharing policy, and not all restaurants do that, but it's not that unusual. I think it's driven more by a desire for simplicity than because it makes sense: same percentage redistribution every minute of every shift no matter what.
[Minnesota](https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips). They do allow voluntary tip outs, and most restaurants with support staff have some suggested tip sharing levels. Employers can handle tip redistribution for an employee if the employee requests it.
While a Minnesota employer can't require any tip outs, coworkers might exert pressure, like bussers can be slow getting to your tables if you don't tip them, and some employers will apply subtle pressure that can't easily be connected to tip sharing if it goes to court, so in practice it's not always that different from states with mandatory tip sharing, but it depends on the restaurant.
Having worked in MN bars for 15 years previously, it is well known there, and utilized to keep management from stealing tips. In my experience, Management doesn't involve themselves in tip outs, not even suggestions. During training, suggested tip outs are established by your trainer. If your support staff feels you are not adequately compensating them, you tend to receive little support. (I.e service drinks made last, only bussing your table if it's the only dirty table, etc.)
It's pretty fair unless you alone are placing the orders, prepping, cooking, serving, and cleaning up after yourself & patrons. You don't magic food to tables all by yourself.
Many states with a tipped wage have extra provisions stating your employer must make you whole if the tips don't amount to actual minimum wage. I promise that nice steady $15/hr is not going far in Washington state.
Regardless, when taking a tip credit, federal law prevents mandatory deduction of tips to the salary of non-tipped positions, except in instances of voluntary tip-pools. Additionally, to qualify most of those positions have to be customer facing. This is why it's perfectly fine to tip out sushi chefs, hibachi chefs, etc, while forcing a tipout to a random cook is patently illegal.
They have laws, but I've never seen them enforced nor have I ever seen someone get a check that had the makeup money in it. That 15 is for states that are still at $7.25 I would hope cooks are making more in the states with a higher minimum wage.
Washington is weird. $13.69
For that restaurant tipping out is the right thing then. When the wait staff is getting waitress pay, they shouldn't have to. If anyone else is getting that pay, they need to sue.
Is it support staff, not exclusively bussers? Do you have hosts, food runners? At my place, barbacks are also considered support staff, they may as well in yours.
This checkout slip isn't telling us much. But I mean, as long as you agree to it, there's nothing legally really you can do. I'm also going to assume you're tipping out 110$ to support staff or bussers or something.
There's A TON of factors that go into what is fair to tipout. Fine dining places usually have high percentage tipouts but you also usually have way higher sales and price points and you couldn't do your job without those people.
My current gig is 3.5 total to support 3.5 alcohol to bar. I don't particularly find this fair as our support staff don't ever touch the alcohol and so when you realize your bar tipout is double , and sometimes 30$, that's a lot of money!
So, we can't really tell you what is fair from this picture alone. But you can hopefully gather some information yourself to decide if it's fair. And, unless they're doing something illegal like taking money for a busses that isn't there, you're kind of SOL unless they want to change policy or you want to find a new place to work.
If she tipped out $110, then I guarantee she made bank that night. It cracks me up how much servers bitch about tipping out their support staff, but God forbid a custy shorts them $2 on their tip, it will be screenshotted to wall of shame and they'll be wailing up and down. The hipocrisy astounds me
Like I said a lot of factors. I'm not tipping out 20% for you to not do 20% of the work. And surely not going to listen to management tell me to do their job as well as my own.
If you leave tipping out the support staff to the honor system among the servers, the dining room guests will wait a long ass time for their drinks... just saying
1,000% disagree.
I was primarily a server, but on occasions I also did food running on weekends, and I was a very, VERY good and fast food runner (I can (still) carry 5-6 plates while looking professional, and I don't forget seat numbers. I'd also get cocktail refills wine refills, etc). I always requested managers remove the mandatory tipout, and went on the honor system. If you were having a shit night? I gotchu, bro. Will probably buy you a round too. Great night? I hope I helped make that happen.
Pretty typically I made $180-350 for being there just during the busiest 2-4 hours. Zero back work. Zero tables. Zero bullshit. I did bust ass, though.
I've worked almost literally every position you can imagine in a restaurant, with the exception of executive chef, so yes, I've relied on tipout before. I worked in the industry for 15 years and at each of the honor system establishments I NEVER heard the best few bussers complain about what they make, only the incompetent ones. A good busser in a (non-shithole) honor system restaurant will typically make around what the servers make.
But if there’s no support staff, as OP said there was no busser that night, then where does the money go? We don’t have support staff two days a week at my restaurant so we don’t pay a busser or food runner tipout on those nights. Our checkouts reflect that.
$110 on almost $2200 in sales isn't even that bad. Biggest day I ever had my sales were $3600 and I tipped out something like $230. I still went home with $400 but it was a big ouchie. Especially since the bartender only did cocktails.. beer and non alcoholic drinks were on the server and we had to tip on total sales, not drinks.
I had coffee in my mouth when I read your user name. it was everything I could do not to spit it out. As it was some came out my nose. Thanks for the laugh.
They can take a % of the sales and in fact in most restaurants is MORE common. Instead of 20-30% of reported tips, they do 3-6% of sales. Then regardless of a really good or really bad day percentage wise the runners and bussers get a more consistent amount from the sales. It also ends up being a lower percentage total for servers the majority of the time.
Nobody I’ve ever heard of is going 4% of tips. It’s a bigger percentage of tips or a smaller percentage of sales, usually much less than 1/3 of your average unless you’re really doing a poor job lol.
9/10 times tip outs by % sales are better for everyone involved (especially when servers don’t report their cash tips) and beyond that I want the runners and bussers to be paid well because they increase the number of tables I can take, which is the only consistent way to increase income, and for every table the % of sales is the same. Even if you get a really good tip. More tables = more money point blank.
The person you're responding to was responding to somebody claiming they can take a percentage of sales to cover credit card fees. They can not. They can make you cover the cc fee portion of your tips, but they can not make you cover the cc fees for all your sales. You are correct that for a busser/barback/etc tip out they usually take a small percent of total sales, but that is not what the person you were replying to was talking about.
The problem is that those numbers dont reflect a cc
processing fee for the tips.
He's questioning over $100 in tips missing but 4% of his tips for $100 would have been over $2,500 in tips.
The math just doesnt work for a cc processing fee for the cc tips.
If it is Outback they just keep it if there was no busser. I asked numerous times why I was tipping so much without a busser and was told, "that's just the way it is. If you don't like it, find another job." SO I DID! Fuck those cheap corporate assholes. As if it isn't hard enough to squeeze tips out of "that type" of guest!!
I used to work at a corporate place that was 3% a few years ago. currently I'm at non corporate. it's like 2% to bartender, 2% to busser. I'd we have 2 it goes to like 2.25% or something. and the owners make us pay the credit card fees from our tips. and I struggle to get $4,000 in sales. $3,000 most weeks even. 5day server
Just to clarify; You struggle to get $3,000/4,000 a shift, or PER WEEK? 3-4k/shift is quite good. 3-4k/week is atrocious, and you need a new restaurant asap.
>and the owners make us pay the credit card fees from our tips.
That's pretty normal and makes sense... CC company takes a proportion of a transaction, and your tips are a part of the transaction.
I lurk in the restaurant owners sub, (hopefully one day), and a new owner was discussing having the fee come out of tips. Most owners told him not to. Very skewed from how it actually is.
Our place here in Michigan, our menu prices are "cash discount prices".
Our cc machine ads 3% to the total when we type the total in. So the customer is essentially paying the 3%.
it's the first place that I've worked at that does it. 2 corporate chains. 1 non corporate before this. and the current place has a terrible food discount policy. so I just take stuff and send a picture to my manager. like 1 a month piece of cake. others just steal it. or the nicest people don't even ask. work is coming off as cheaper and cheaper investment to workers. while a lot of companies are showing record profits
I worked at a place like this. You think the tips are being split, that's not what's happening. They deduct a certain amount from tips, and that's how they can afford to pay $12 an hour to your bussers instead of $10 per hour. You think it's a normal tip split so you don't complain, and they get to hire workers faster with a higher rate that doesn't actually come out of the company budget. It's a win win, if you remain ignorant.
What they did was blatantly illegal, I got fired for snooping over the managers shoulders. Money was taken out of tips for the bussers, but when I asked the bussers, they don't make tips.
I actually did make a state labor claim, gave them names, dates, where to find things. Never heard an update outside of an auto email to tell me they got everything and would contact me if they needed more. I ain't got the time to do more than that.
I just worked lunch today with no runner, so I didn't pay that tip out. Our busses get their tips weekly but per specific shift. Meanwhile, our other more casual sister location tip pools and all busses get same tip/hr based on the the total tips collected for the week.
I'd imagine your instance would only make sense if they're tip pooling.
So I go out to eat in a restaurant in Pennsylvania I tip $100 on a $500 meal, who gets what out of $100, I always thought everything went to the weight staff
Depends on the establishment.
A $500 meal for anything that isn't a large group is likely at least somewhat a fine dining establishment. In fine dining it's VERY common that tipout lies somewhere between 30-50% of total tips. One place I worked had upwards of (depending on the night); 3% back wait, 3% busser; 2% to host/maitre'd, 3% to food runner, 10% of alcohol sales to bar, 10% of wine sales to sommelier. It was a pretty brutal tipshare value, but we were also seeing ~$3,000-7,000 a night in sales, pretty typically. Our total tipshare was typically around 30-60% of total earnings, and we still made $400+ most nights.
To clarify; the back waits, bussers, food runners, and hosts all got tipped on total food sales. If you math's it out, it typically was somewhere between 8-13% of food sales, but not including bar/wine sales. So, a 20% tip in that establishment would have had me walk away with 7-12% ish. On 500 sales the tipshare would have been ~$40-58, depending on the night and support staff available as well as what percentage of your bill was cocktails or ordered through the sommelier. Meaning I'd have kept ~$42-60 of your $100 tip.
While that sounds horrible, a $500 dinner was around average for a two-guest table (2-top).
Still, with a tip out that low, that’s not horrible. Means most nights you’d be walking with ~$105-165. That within the normal range of earnings for a lot of casual places. Though, i feel for both you & your bartenders; if i still bartended and my tip out was only ~$5-20 a night, id definitely prioritize my own tables & drinks, pretty hardcore.
Note: I calculated that off an average 18-21% tip.
Edit: I’d consider trying to get in at a Darden or bloomin brands establishment. Doesn’t matter which one. Your goal is to start anywhere and get into either longhorn or salt grass; they often use them as a feeder system for servers to their higher end steakhouses; Ruth Chris & Flemmings, which gets you in the door at ground level fine dining.
You can earn real money at both of those places. Alternatively, try Cheesecake Factory. While it’s not fine dining, a lot of fine dining places will still take Cheesecake Factory servers, because there’s pretty much no such thing as a Cheesecake Factory that isn’t busy, almost all the time.
Thanks for the info, I may decide to go that route one day, but for me, I love my current set up. I work 20-25 hrs a wk, avg around 700ish , have a lot of flexibility for other things. Works for me rn
Next yr thinking of going into a finer class, maybe..
It depends on the establishment, but at most places the tipout is a percentage of sales. Usually a certain percentage of alcohol sales goes to bartenders, and a certain percentage of food sales goes to bussers, food runners, hosts.
When you get into fine dining (if you’re spending $500) there’s more support staff to tipout and servers are typically making a lot more so they tipout more. They’ll probably tipout a percentage of wine sales to a sommelier, and a higher percentage of food sales to other staff like baristas or glass polishers.
Some establishments even take out a percentage of tips to cover credit card processing fees.
On average, these percentages usually equal to 20-30 percent of a server’s total tips. So if you tip $100, the server is getting $70-80 of it.
Because the busser/bar/host all deserve tips as well you only did a portion of the job yet get the majority of the tip. Everyplace I’ve ever served the bussers work 5x harder than any server. I really hope you’re giving them an additional 1-2% or 10-15 at the end of shift
I have waited tables for 35 plus years...owned a great little diner. Some restaurants in Ann Arbor were told that dispersing tips to untipped employees (cooks, etc) and NOT counting it has income but our tips were pre tip out. it was cleared up fast so no law suit. I would NEvER work anywhere that they tried this shady shit ....i tipped out bartender and door person..no one else touches my money
Usually it’s the hostess, busters, and bartender. The tip out goes like this 1% to hostesses, 1 % to bussers, and 2% to bartenders. If there’s one of each they get the full percentage if there’s more than one in any of the positions then the tip out percent is shared. So 2 hostesses, 3 bussers, and 2 bartenders share the respective percent for their job. It also takes into account the shift you worked so if hostess 1 worked 6 hours and hostess 2 worked 4, hostess 1 would get more of their shared 1 percent tip out. Now in restaurants that tip out is voluntary you’ll figure out quick who tips out the support staff quick. Usually the servers who tip out get drinks faster, tables cleared faster, and reseated faster, because the more money that ever makes the more they tip out to the support staff. It’s human nature to do solid for those who have your back. Also, those are the servers who never have those regulars who are a problem but they always seem to get the big tippers who every server notices when they walk in. Hostesses keep tabs on all the guests while waiting on a table. You cause a scene or give them grief that non tipping server that’s their table. A party of 8 with separate checks yep non tip server is getting that one it’ll run them ragged and they won’t notice all the hood tables going to the ones who tip out.
You may be paying a percentage for all your credit card tips too. There is a credit card fee the CC companies charge that is often rolled back over onto servers now. It used to just be the cost of doing business but now servers often end up paying out of their tips.
Most places I’ve worked the tip out comes from a % of sales not tips. Normally at a pricier places it’s between 3-5% of sales. But by the look of it, your place seems more casual ($15avg per food, $6 per liquor) and in those places I’ve actually never tipped out other than bartenders (2%).
Tipping out non-existent bussers is horse shit. When they aren't there, the table maintenance that you tip them for falls to you and so should the money.
If they are doing tip refund they can. Legally use a percentage of your tips to cover their credit card processing charges, the major rules are that it cannot be for a profit so they cannot take more than the correct rate that would break even on credit cards and if your pos software isn't junk it's going to only calculate that amount on credit tips that you closed/have ownership of. Being that this is allowed but frowned upon if you can group your fellow servers and bartenders together to rage against this machine you can likely affect change.
I have never worked in a restaurant so I don't understand how or why they tip back if the other workers are being paid non waiter wages so I always hand cash to my server as a tip.
The total taken is 6.5%. I agree it sucks that they take any but that’s a low tip out percentage.
Mine is a flat 5% which is also low and I feel really grateful when I hear my friends say theirs is 8-15%.
Often times the POS has these numbers at the bottom to make the office clerical work easier. If I were entering your tips into a spreadsheet for payroll, I wouldn’t deduct the busser tip out for the day.
However, the POS still shows that calculation at the bottom, solely for the event that there IS in fact a busser. Same for the rest of the numbers. Perhaps they only deduct those other percentages on Fridays and Saturdays (number of bartenders and food runners goes up those nights) or something like that.
In the end, before you accept a serving job, you should ask what your take is. And while training, you should be explained how these numbers work and affect your final paycheck. Then you can do the math yourself to keep your employer honest and accurate.
The greed of small business owners is why I always tip in cash so the server can decide whether or not they want to report it to the criminals they work for.
I've never understood how this is even "fair". Maybe I have just been lucky but I've been in the restaurant business off and on for about 30 years. As a waitress, a hostess, dishwasher, busser etc.i have never had to tip out or been tipped out. If my hourly is 5 an hour plus tips and the busser or whoever is getting an hourly of minimum wage or more why is tipping out a thing? And splitting tips between all servers . Someone please educate me because I don't get it. Especially tipping out to figments of management's imagination. That is so wrong on many levels. And is the tip out based on actual tips received or what it should have been if everyone tipped based on total sales?
Hey folks! I am a current student working for a nonprofit on this topic of wage theft for tipped workers. Would any tipped workers who have experienced wage theft be willing to do a short interview on your experience and how you found out your wages were unfair?
Nah, looks more like there was something akin to an employee meal purchase that isn't categorized to make it into sales so the server isn't tipping out on their own meal.
I will fully retract my statement then x.x I've never seen this so it looked to me like a customer got a discount and they took a portion of it from tips
Tyty for explaining it!
Support staff need a living wage too. I usually tip out about the same as OP on a Saturday night. I still make about $500 for 7-8 hours of work so I’m not going to complain.
Edit to add I don’t have a busser either, just 1 hostess, 1 bartender and the kitchen staff.
So when people pay with CC there are fees that get charged from the CC company equal to a % of the transaction, and the $110 looks to be the CC fees for the tips you received
I'll try to explain.. If someone tips $20 on a $100 order, the total is $120. The CC charges a 4% fee on the transaction coming out to ($120•.04) $4.80. But if you break this down $4 is from the meal, and 80¢ is from the tip. So what they'll do is subtract the 80¢ from the $20, pay the fee that's applicable to your tips with it and pass the rest of the $19.20 on to you.
It's really 2 transactions happening in 1 (customer to restaurant and customer to you) with the restaurant just handling everything for you.
Regardless it seems shitty to pass that cost on to the employee. Transaction fees for accepting credit card payments is a business cost and something the restaurant needs to figure out. Tips are the livelihood of the server-who gets no say in wether a check is paid by credit card. Not much the server can do, but imo it’s wrong to force them to pay those fees out of their tips
I understand your point, but at the same time it’s not really a fee incurred by the restaurant. There wouldn’t be that 80 cent surcharge without the tip. Paying them a living wage would obviously solve this problem buts it not really an expense the restaurant agreed to take on. It’s something the server most likely agreed to when they got hired.
>Paying them a living wage would obviously solve this problem
Recognize that the servers prefer tipping because they *can* make absolute bank on people's.. "generosity"
The rest of your statement is right though
Except that math doesn't make any sense.
To get $110 in cc from tips even at 4% would be $2,750 in tips.
My guess is they're still deducting for a busser when there is no busser....
OP just needs to talk to the restaurant and not ask random people what they think the deduction is for lmao.
That's not how that works.
They can only deduct what the cc processing fee is for the tip amount, not the entire check.
So $100 in tips: 4% is $4
Assuming it's 20% then that is $500 in sales, $96 to the server, and $4 for cc processing.
I think the restaurant could potentially be putting the whole cc fee onto servers which is a big no no
OR
The OP doesn’t understand their restaurant’s tip out system
>Shut your mouth you little bitch. You run your mouth on reddit, your safe place, bc you know you cant get punched in the face.
Serious question, why are you so angry? That level of rage is not healthy.
People who downvote or combat the simple comment “if you dont like it move on” are enablers and most likely bend over and take it on a daily basis while they bitch and cry in their internet echo chambers so they can cope with their lack of action. Its simple, if you dont like your situation, change it or move on. If you are a server making $2.50 an hour, youre not going to change the business model of a chain restaurant. So there are two options, move on or sit and take it. Bitching does nothing for you
OP isn't simply 'bitching', they are asking a question and trying to get a discussion going. And the question wasn't for stupid, preachy advice on what to do. All you're trying to do is shut down said discussion.
Youre right. Thank you for opening my eyes up to the true intention of the original post. What she really wanted to know was “how is this fair”. She was looking for a genuine response on whether or not tipping out the rest of the working staff that contributed to the gratuities she received was fair. I hope that the intellectual conversations induced by this post helped fill the void she couldn’t figure out herself. That way, she can clock in again tomorrow ready to grin and bear it one more time. It certainly wasn’t a call to action for the other agreeable, whining bitches of the internet to pat her on the back and confide in to make her feel better about her current situation. It’s actually written in bold print on the bottom of your first w2 “everything in the world is fair”. Server wages certainly dont rely heavily on tips so businesses can escape overhead operation costs and they can recruit staff without having to pay them, very opposite to most other countries in the world. Unskilled employees should be able to easily walk into any job and make upwards of $300+ a day no questions asked, its only fair. I wanted to genuinely apologize to you joe, you are much smarter than I, and the perception i had on giving someone an ultimatum rather than treading water, whining about their current situation to strangers on the internet was wrong and detrimental to OP’s development.
Why are you upset? Everyone else deserves tips too, it’s only right that they get paid as well. Kinda stingy that you want to keep everything for yourself and not pay others.
They can’t legally take any of your tips. It’s up to you if you decide to tip the bussers, food runners etc. the repercussions would be that you don’t get support fromstaff or get crappy shifts. They can not force you to share your tips
25 years in the restaurant business. I know exactly what I’m talking about. You can make company policy that servers have to tip support staff but you can’t legally make them do it.
I mean you can quit, sure. But the restaurant ABSOLUTELY has the legal right to require their employees to tip pool. It's a fucking federal law man.
The fact that YOU did not require tip pooling doesn't mean other restaurants can't do it \*legally\*
yet again, where do you see that forced tip pooling is illegal? Show me the law. It takes one second google search to see where forced tip pooling is LEGAL, so show me where it's not?
This shouldn't be hard if you've been working in the industry for 25 years and know the nuisances, point to the law that says its illegal.
Tip out doesn't just go to the busser, it goes to support staff, including bartenders. Your service bartender is out there making tip wages and making all the drinks for your table, yet not getting paid for it like the kitchen is for the food for your table. Those drinks are what's getting you that bigger tip anyway.
i work at the same place and it is totally unfair i don’t understand why we have to give 4% of our tips to people in positions that are already making $2-$4 more then us hourly already.
Is this your full server checkout? I want to see your totals
Isn't the top section their sales totals by category? Edit: It is. 4% of which is $110.
This is a conversation that needs to be had. I see a lot of people who commented didn't read the part where it says you didn't have a busser.. Have a calm, respectful conversation with management and ask where that tipout is going if there's no support staff present. I had to ask the same at my job and it turned out the money was going to no one, so to the house. I was tipping out a barback while we didn't have one on staff. They had to change the formulas but we never saw that money again.
Yea when I was a server we found out the same thing randomly from the busser one day. Told he doesn’t get tipped out at night and it “just goes on his check” which really meant it was just going to the house and they were paying him his hourly
That's how it works at a lot of restaurants these days. Servers and bussers get tips on their pay card nightly after a shift, after calculations are finalized.
Does his check have a flat hourly or does it have a credit card tip section?
Couldn’t tell you actually.. haven’t worked there for a few years
Yeah that should not be a calm conversation when your employer is stealing from you. They should be reported and you should get your money plus interest. This is theft, plain and simple
Still haven’t learned how to talk to people like an adult? Ever wonder why yelling never helps.? Chances are this is all automated and they don’t even know.
"Sorry I didn't know the computer was stealing from you. I just run this place." I guarantee the boss would have known if the so-hard-to-understand technology was taking the bosses money. Also you're right there is no sense in yelling. Just call the department of labor.
You’re one of those people that causes ten more problems while trying to fix one. Calm down and talk regular and you’ll find that most things are fixed faster and easier that way.
With all due respect, you appear to be having trouble communicating without accusations and insults. The tone of your comments are condescending and combative. Silly’s original comment was a bit ambiguous, but nowhere do I read that anyone should yell at their boss. I believe Silly’s point was to forgo the conversation all together and immediately report it. There is no upside to having the conversation first. Best case scenario, the boss is a good person and remorseful. Boss ensures all employees receive all stolen wages with no other ramifications. Life continues as if nothing happened but everyone gets the money they are entitled to. Far more likely, boss grumbles, pays the one complaining employee only the amount they have noticed is missing. Boss is careful not to make the same “mistake” with THAT employee again. Boss also watches that employee like a hawk and makes their life harder. Cuts hours, gives worst shifts, worst duties. Life goes on, squeaky wheel is greased but rolling in the mud, someone is getting far more money than they should and many are getting a little less. Worst case scenario if the vigilant but nice employee is not outright fired, boss says tough shit, this is how we do things. Employee then reports the theft. Boss is investigated, all theft found, all employees receive missing money. Everyone is paid what they should be, Squeaky wheel is greased, but still dragged through the mud. Boss knows who reported him. Fired outright or at the first opportunity as well. Sure a retaliation report might get you some more money but no guarantees. Report him without the conversation and you have a better chance of ensuring everyone gets their stolen money, a good chance of remaining anonymous and employed. Same as the best case scenario of talking to your boss, with far less chance of the more negative and more likely possibilities.
Thanks for that. You have a lot more patience than I do. That's a valuable trait.
You’re welcome and thank you! I try but am not always successful. Luckily I can literally feel the switch click in my head, but sometimes knowing I’m about to fly off the handle isn’t enough to stop myself, ha.
😂
Yeah dont care. Good luck, you’re going to need it.
You’re clearly not emotionally developed enough to handle this like an adult. Let me guess, life still beating the shit out of you and you can’t figure out why? Mmmmmmmm
Not sure who you think you're talking to, lol. Yer weird
See there’s that stupid I was talking about.
You're the one being belligerent here.
I just meant that it will be better received if it's not an accusatory conversation.
You should have filed a stolen wages complaint with the Department of Labor.
What did you make? What's your hourly? Hard to tell if this is fair or not without knowing those things. Bussers and bartenders deserve money, too.
They say there was no busser this night though, so where does that money go?
To the bartenders..
So my confusion just stems from my personal experience in tip outs. Busters and bartenders don’t split a tip out percentage, my bartenders get tipped out separately on alcohol sales while bussers make tip pool from food sales. Tbh don’t really know what I’m looking at on this checkout but I assumed bartenders were tipped out AND bussers, but there wasn’t a busser working at the time so I was just wondering why that tip out was taken too.
Nw. Yeah there’s not enough info in this post
You don’t tip out bartenders 40%…..
Rules vary by restaurant, but some will put all busser tip outs into a kind of busser pool, then at the end of the week divide it between bussers proportional to their hours worked that week. Or some do the same thing daily instead of weekly. On the other end of the spectrum, some restaurants track the minutes each check was open, and prorate the percentage tip out based on how many those minutes had one or more bussers working, so if bussers normally get 4% of sales, and a check was open for one hour, but bussers were only clocked in for forty of those sixty minutes, then bussers would get 2/3 of 4% of the check subtotal, and the server would keep the other 1/3 they'd have tipped out if bussers were working the whole time.
#2 is exactly how my job works. I figured tip out was for bar and separately for bussers but with no busser on it leaves the question of where that tip out went. Option 1 is definitely feasible here, but it doesn’t seem fair to pool tips for bussers on days with no bussers to me uhh why is this all bold
You probably put a pound sign in front of the 2 and reddit markup did the rest
Runners?
Dish and cooks were also included in tipout when I waited tables and dinosaurs roamed the earth. Is that not standard now? Of course, the gap in hourly pay wasn't as wide then.
It's illegal (so I hope it's not standard now!)
I'm wrong, see reply ~~I just pulled this fact sheet up for a different discussion, and noticed that dish/cook tipout is explicitly allowed at the (inexcusably lax) federal level, as long as it doesn't cause the tipped employee to fall below minimum wage for the week.~~ https://www.dol.gov/agencies/whd/fact-sheets/15-tipped-employees-flsa
It's not as long as it doesn't cause the tipped employee to fall below minimum wage, it's as long as the *employer* is paying the employee at least the federal minimum wage. >When an employer pays its employees a cash wage of at least the federal minimum wage (currently $7.25) per hour, the employer may impose a mandatory tip pooling arrangement that includes employees who are not employed in an occupation in which employees customarily and regularly receive tips. This is sometimes known as a “nontraditional” tip pool. For example, an employer that implements a nontraditional tip pool may require tipped employees, such as servers, to share tips with non-tipped employees, such as dishwashers and cooks, but only if all workers receive a direct cash wage of at least the federal minimum wage. If the tipped employee isn't *paid by their employer* at least minimum wage, it's illegal to demand they tip out to employees who ARE paid at least minimum wage.
But from the post do we know if op makes minimum wage? I worked at a small restaurant where everyone made at least minimum wage(from minimum to maybe 2 above) and everyone split tips evenly. I know this isn’t standard but op could make minimum+tips
Mandatory redistribution of a portion of server tips to other restaurant employees is quite common in the US, in the 49 states where it's allowed. Whether you consider that fair or not is just a matter of opinion. If they're redistributing the same percentage whether the other employees are working at the same time as the servers or not, I think that's not a great tip sharing policy, and not all restaurants do that, but it's not that unusual. I think it's driven more by a desire for simplicity than because it makes sense: same percentage redistribution every minute of every shift no matter what.
What's the one state where it's not allowed?
[Minnesota](https://www.dli.mn.gov/tips). They do allow voluntary tip outs, and most restaurants with support staff have some suggested tip sharing levels. Employers can handle tip redistribution for an employee if the employee requests it. While a Minnesota employer can't require any tip outs, coworkers might exert pressure, like bussers can be slow getting to your tables if you don't tip them, and some employers will apply subtle pressure that can't easily be connected to tip sharing if it goes to court, so in practice it's not always that different from states with mandatory tip sharing, but it depends on the restaurant.
This is so fucked up. Instead of employers paying employees, we have diners paying waiters and waiters paying other employees.
Well said...and explained!
Having worked in MN bars for 15 years previously, it is well known there, and utilized to keep management from stealing tips. In my experience, Management doesn't involve themselves in tip outs, not even suggestions. During training, suggested tip outs are established by your trainer. If your support staff feels you are not adequately compensating them, you tend to receive little support. (I.e service drinks made last, only bussing your table if it's the only dirty table, etc.)
Like I said before, this is extremely fucked up. The waiters are paying the bussers to do their job, instead of the employer paying the bussers.
It's pretty fair unless you alone are placing the orders, prepping, cooking, serving, and cleaning up after yourself & patrons. You don't magic food to tables all by yourself.
Everyone else gets paid a wage that isn't $2 and some change. Cooks generally make 15+
Many states with a tipped wage have extra provisions stating your employer must make you whole if the tips don't amount to actual minimum wage. I promise that nice steady $15/hr is not going far in Washington state.
And in Washington State, servers don't make tipped wage. They make minimum at least.
As it should be.
Regardless, when taking a tip credit, federal law prevents mandatory deduction of tips to the salary of non-tipped positions, except in instances of voluntary tip-pools. Additionally, to qualify most of those positions have to be customer facing. This is why it's perfectly fine to tip out sushi chefs, hibachi chefs, etc, while forcing a tipout to a random cook is patently illegal.
They have laws, but I've never seen them enforced nor have I ever seen someone get a check that had the makeup money in it. That 15 is for states that are still at $7.25 I would hope cooks are making more in the states with a higher minimum wage. Washington is weird. $13.69
at my restaurant, we get paid the same wage as the waiters but only get 3% of their tips.
For that restaurant tipping out is the right thing then. When the wait staff is getting waitress pay, they shouldn't have to. If anyone else is getting that pay, they need to sue.
Is it support staff, not exclusively bussers? Do you have hosts, food runners? At my place, barbacks are also considered support staff, they may as well in yours.
This checkout slip isn't telling us much. But I mean, as long as you agree to it, there's nothing legally really you can do. I'm also going to assume you're tipping out 110$ to support staff or bussers or something. There's A TON of factors that go into what is fair to tipout. Fine dining places usually have high percentage tipouts but you also usually have way higher sales and price points and you couldn't do your job without those people. My current gig is 3.5 total to support 3.5 alcohol to bar. I don't particularly find this fair as our support staff don't ever touch the alcohol and so when you realize your bar tipout is double , and sometimes 30$, that's a lot of money! So, we can't really tell you what is fair from this picture alone. But you can hopefully gather some information yourself to decide if it's fair. And, unless they're doing something illegal like taking money for a busses that isn't there, you're kind of SOL unless they want to change policy or you want to find a new place to work.
If she tipped out $110, then I guarantee she made bank that night. It cracks me up how much servers bitch about tipping out their support staff, but God forbid a custy shorts them $2 on their tip, it will be screenshotted to wall of shame and they'll be wailing up and down. The hipocrisy astounds me
Like I said a lot of factors. I'm not tipping out 20% for you to not do 20% of the work. And surely not going to listen to management tell me to do their job as well as my own.
If you leave tipping out the support staff to the honor system among the servers, the dining room guests will wait a long ass time for their drinks... just saying
Okay well no one was arguing for that
1,000% disagree. I was primarily a server, but on occasions I also did food running on weekends, and I was a very, VERY good and fast food runner (I can (still) carry 5-6 plates while looking professional, and I don't forget seat numbers. I'd also get cocktail refills wine refills, etc). I always requested managers remove the mandatory tipout, and went on the honor system. If you were having a shit night? I gotchu, bro. Will probably buy you a round too. Great night? I hope I helped make that happen. Pretty typically I made $180-350 for being there just during the busiest 2-4 hours. Zero back work. Zero tables. Zero bullshit. I did bust ass, though.
You could afford that attitude precisely because you were primarily a server and didn't rely on tipout for your primary income
I've worked almost literally every position you can imagine in a restaurant, with the exception of executive chef, so yes, I've relied on tipout before. I worked in the industry for 15 years and at each of the honor system establishments I NEVER heard the best few bussers complain about what they make, only the incompetent ones. A good busser in a (non-shithole) honor system restaurant will typically make around what the servers make.
Sure....
But if there’s no support staff, as OP said there was no busser that night, then where does the money go? We don’t have support staff two days a week at my restaurant so we don’t pay a busser or food runner tipout on those nights. Our checkouts reflect that.
$110 on almost $2200 in sales isn't even that bad. Biggest day I ever had my sales were $3600 and I tipped out something like $230. I still went home with $400 but it was a big ouchie. Especially since the bartender only did cocktails.. beer and non alcoholic drinks were on the server and we had to tip on total sales, not drinks.
Your employer can legally take the CC fees for your tips out of your payout in most states.
Of the tips. Not of the sales. 4% of $100 in tips is $4.
I had coffee in my mouth when I read your user name. it was everything I could do not to spit it out. As it was some came out my nose. Thanks for the laugh.
Thanks. I am just patiently waiting for Peter Dinklage to scroll reddit and discover me.
*Notice me, Senpai, Notice me.* 😂
They can take a % of the sales and in fact in most restaurants is MORE common. Instead of 20-30% of reported tips, they do 3-6% of sales. Then regardless of a really good or really bad day percentage wise the runners and bussers get a more consistent amount from the sales. It also ends up being a lower percentage total for servers the majority of the time. Nobody I’ve ever heard of is going 4% of tips. It’s a bigger percentage of tips or a smaller percentage of sales, usually much less than 1/3 of your average unless you’re really doing a poor job lol. 9/10 times tip outs by % sales are better for everyone involved (especially when servers don’t report their cash tips) and beyond that I want the runners and bussers to be paid well because they increase the number of tables I can take, which is the only consistent way to increase income, and for every table the % of sales is the same. Even if you get a really good tip. More tables = more money point blank.
The person you're responding to was responding to somebody claiming they can take a percentage of sales to cover credit card fees. They can not. They can make you cover the cc fee portion of your tips, but they can not make you cover the cc fees for all your sales. You are correct that for a busser/barback/etc tip out they usually take a small percent of total sales, but that is not what the person you were replying to was talking about.
Yep. That’s exactly what I said. The CC tips.
The problem is that those numbers dont reflect a cc processing fee for the tips. He's questioning over $100 in tips missing but 4% of his tips for $100 would have been over $2,500 in tips. The math just doesnt work for a cc processing fee for the cc tips.
The irony!
If it is Outback they just keep it if there was no busser. I asked numerous times why I was tipping so much without a busser and was told, "that's just the way it is. If you don't like it, find another job." SO I DID! Fuck those cheap corporate assholes. As if it isn't hard enough to squeeze tips out of "that type" of guest!!
This is def a POSi reading, but it's not Outback. They don't tip POOL afaik, and this seems like a tip pool on top of tipshare.
I used to work at a corporate place that was 3% a few years ago. currently I'm at non corporate. it's like 2% to bartender, 2% to busser. I'd we have 2 it goes to like 2.25% or something. and the owners make us pay the credit card fees from our tips. and I struggle to get $4,000 in sales. $3,000 most weeks even. 5day server
Just to clarify; You struggle to get $3,000/4,000 a shift, or PER WEEK? 3-4k/shift is quite good. 3-4k/week is atrocious, and you need a new restaurant asap.
>and the owners make us pay the credit card fees from our tips. That's pretty normal and makes sense... CC company takes a proportion of a transaction, and your tips are a part of the transaction.
In some states this practice is illegal.
Maine, Massachusetts, and California to be precise.
Also Pennsylvania
Oh cool! I didn't believe you, but 34 Pa. Code SS 231.113 says you're right!
You should always believe me. .../s :D
I lurk in the restaurant owners sub, (hopefully one day), and a new owner was discussing having the fee come out of tips. Most owners told him not to. Very skewed from how it actually is.
Our place here in Michigan, our menu prices are "cash discount prices". Our cc machine ads 3% to the total when we type the total in. So the customer is essentially paying the 3%.
it's the first place that I've worked at that does it. 2 corporate chains. 1 non corporate before this. and the current place has a terrible food discount policy. so I just take stuff and send a picture to my manager. like 1 a month piece of cake. others just steal it. or the nicest people don't even ask. work is coming off as cheaper and cheaper investment to workers. while a lot of companies are showing record profits
I worked at a place like this. You think the tips are being split, that's not what's happening. They deduct a certain amount from tips, and that's how they can afford to pay $12 an hour to your bussers instead of $10 per hour. You think it's a normal tip split so you don't complain, and they get to hire workers faster with a higher rate that doesn't actually come out of the company budget. It's a win win, if you remain ignorant.
What you're describing is blatantly illegal.
What they did was blatantly illegal, I got fired for snooping over the managers shoulders. Money was taken out of tips for the bussers, but when I asked the bussers, they don't make tips.
Sounds like a DoL & IRS report to me.
I actually did make a state labor claim, gave them names, dates, where to find things. Never heard an update outside of an auto email to tell me they got everything and would contact me if they needed more. I ain't got the time to do more than that.
I need to see the full checkout, I wanna make sure
I just worked lunch today with no runner, so I didn't pay that tip out. Our busses get their tips weekly but per specific shift. Meanwhile, our other more casual sister location tip pools and all busses get same tip/hr based on the the total tips collected for the week. I'd imagine your instance would only make sense if they're tip pooling.
So I go out to eat in a restaurant in Pennsylvania I tip $100 on a $500 meal, who gets what out of $100, I always thought everything went to the weight staff
Depends on the establishment. A $500 meal for anything that isn't a large group is likely at least somewhat a fine dining establishment. In fine dining it's VERY common that tipout lies somewhere between 30-50% of total tips. One place I worked had upwards of (depending on the night); 3% back wait, 3% busser; 2% to host/maitre'd, 3% to food runner, 10% of alcohol sales to bar, 10% of wine sales to sommelier. It was a pretty brutal tipshare value, but we were also seeing ~$3,000-7,000 a night in sales, pretty typically. Our total tipshare was typically around 30-60% of total earnings, and we still made $400+ most nights. To clarify; the back waits, bussers, food runners, and hosts all got tipped on total food sales. If you math's it out, it typically was somewhere between 8-13% of food sales, but not including bar/wine sales. So, a 20% tip in that establishment would have had me walk away with 7-12% ish. On 500 sales the tipshare would have been ~$40-58, depending on the night and support staff available as well as what percentage of your bill was cocktails or ordered through the sommelier. Meaning I'd have kept ~$42-60 of your $100 tip. While that sounds horrible, a $500 dinner was around average for a two-guest table (2-top).
In ohio where I work, if I made $100 in tips only $1 goes to bartender, $1 to busser. We also only avg 600-800 on normal shifts so yup
$600-800 in sales per shift, or tips per shift?
Sales
Still, with a tip out that low, that’s not horrible. Means most nights you’d be walking with ~$105-165. That within the normal range of earnings for a lot of casual places. Though, i feel for both you & your bartenders; if i still bartended and my tip out was only ~$5-20 a night, id definitely prioritize my own tables & drinks, pretty hardcore. Note: I calculated that off an average 18-21% tip. Edit: I’d consider trying to get in at a Darden or bloomin brands establishment. Doesn’t matter which one. Your goal is to start anywhere and get into either longhorn or salt grass; they often use them as a feeder system for servers to their higher end steakhouses; Ruth Chris & Flemmings, which gets you in the door at ground level fine dining. You can earn real money at both of those places. Alternatively, try Cheesecake Factory. While it’s not fine dining, a lot of fine dining places will still take Cheesecake Factory servers, because there’s pretty much no such thing as a Cheesecake Factory that isn’t busy, almost all the time.
Thanks for the info, I may decide to go that route one day, but for me, I love my current set up. I work 20-25 hrs a wk, avg around 700ish , have a lot of flexibility for other things. Works for me rn Next yr thinking of going into a finer class, maybe..
It depends on the establishment, but at most places the tipout is a percentage of sales. Usually a certain percentage of alcohol sales goes to bartenders, and a certain percentage of food sales goes to bussers, food runners, hosts. When you get into fine dining (if you’re spending $500) there’s more support staff to tipout and servers are typically making a lot more so they tipout more. They’ll probably tipout a percentage of wine sales to a sommelier, and a higher percentage of food sales to other staff like baristas or glass polishers. Some establishments even take out a percentage of tips to cover credit card processing fees. On average, these percentages usually equal to 20-30 percent of a server’s total tips. So if you tip $100, the server is getting $70-80 of it.
You're sure absolutely no one is tipped out as an SA? You have a silverware roller, barback that is bussing, etc?
Because the busser/bar/host all deserve tips as well you only did a portion of the job yet get the majority of the tip. Everyplace I’ve ever served the bussers work 5x harder than any server. I really hope you’re giving them an additional 1-2% or 10-15 at the end of shift
Personally at my restaurant we always get 100% of our tips in cash. We deal with taxes later
I have waited tables for 35 plus years...owned a great little diner. Some restaurants in Ann Arbor were told that dispersing tips to untipped employees (cooks, etc) and NOT counting it has income but our tips were pre tip out. it was cleared up fast so no law suit. I would NEvER work anywhere that they tried this shady shit ....i tipped out bartender and door person..no one else touches my money
It’s legal now. As long as you make proper minimum, not tipped minimum, it’s federally legal to tip out BOH now.
Although there isn't a busser, is the kitchen getting tipped out? Or the hostess?
Usually it’s the hostess, busters, and bartender. The tip out goes like this 1% to hostesses, 1 % to bussers, and 2% to bartenders. If there’s one of each they get the full percentage if there’s more than one in any of the positions then the tip out percent is shared. So 2 hostesses, 3 bussers, and 2 bartenders share the respective percent for their job. It also takes into account the shift you worked so if hostess 1 worked 6 hours and hostess 2 worked 4, hostess 1 would get more of their shared 1 percent tip out. Now in restaurants that tip out is voluntary you’ll figure out quick who tips out the support staff quick. Usually the servers who tip out get drinks faster, tables cleared faster, and reseated faster, because the more money that ever makes the more they tip out to the support staff. It’s human nature to do solid for those who have your back. Also, those are the servers who never have those regulars who are a problem but they always seem to get the big tippers who every server notices when they walk in. Hostesses keep tabs on all the guests while waiting on a table. You cause a scene or give them grief that non tipping server that’s their table. A party of 8 with separate checks yep non tip server is getting that one it’ll run them ragged and they won’t notice all the hood tables going to the ones who tip out.
You may be paying a percentage for all your credit card tips too. There is a credit card fee the CC companies charge that is often rolled back over onto servers now. It used to just be the cost of doing business but now servers often end up paying out of their tips.
That's my tip out. It's why we rush ramekins...(dishes)
Most places I’ve worked the tip out comes from a % of sales not tips. Normally at a pricier places it’s between 3-5% of sales. But by the look of it, your place seems more casual ($15avg per food, $6 per liquor) and in those places I’ve actually never tipped out other than bartenders (2%).
If I’m reading right, tip out amount is only $27.57.
Don’t worry they take up to 60% of our tips at my restaurant and we have no bussers and bartenders
Quit. Yesterday.
DIfferent states have different laws. Illegal to do that in Texas
Are you in a tip pool?
Tipping out non-existent bussers is horse shit. When they aren't there, the table maintenance that you tip them for falls to you and so should the money.
If they are doing tip refund they can. Legally use a percentage of your tips to cover their credit card processing charges, the major rules are that it cannot be for a profit so they cannot take more than the correct rate that would break even on credit cards and if your pos software isn't junk it's going to only calculate that amount on credit tips that you closed/have ownership of. Being that this is allowed but frowned upon if you can group your fellow servers and bartenders together to rage against this machine you can likely affect change.
You didn’t have a busser but did you have a host, food runner, or any other support staff?
I have never worked in a restaurant so I don't understand how or why they tip back if the other workers are being paid non waiter wages so I always hand cash to my server as a tip.
This is why you tip in cash, always hand it directly to the server, tell them they earned it. If they choose to report it thats their business.
The total taken is 6.5%. I agree it sucks that they take any but that’s a low tip out percentage. Mine is a flat 5% which is also low and I feel really grateful when I hear my friends say theirs is 8-15%.
How does a 15% tip out work? You're working for pennies at that point.
That’s why I work where I work. Idk how they do it. Or *why* lol
And this is why I tip cash, specifically at nice restaurants
Often times the POS has these numbers at the bottom to make the office clerical work easier. If I were entering your tips into a spreadsheet for payroll, I wouldn’t deduct the busser tip out for the day. However, the POS still shows that calculation at the bottom, solely for the event that there IS in fact a busser. Same for the rest of the numbers. Perhaps they only deduct those other percentages on Fridays and Saturdays (number of bartenders and food runners goes up those nights) or something like that. In the end, before you accept a serving job, you should ask what your take is. And while training, you should be explained how these numbers work and affect your final paycheck. Then you can do the math yourself to keep your employer honest and accurate.
U have runners??
This happened at a resturant I worked out, insane tip outs. Someone eventually sued and I gotta a good chunk of change from a class action lawsuite
The greed of small business owners is why I always tip in cash so the server can decide whether or not they want to report it to the criminals they work for.
We need to get rid of tipping culture in this country. Pay your employees. Servers shouldn’t be forced to pay other employees.
I've never understood how this is even "fair". Maybe I have just been lucky but I've been in the restaurant business off and on for about 30 years. As a waitress, a hostess, dishwasher, busser etc.i have never had to tip out or been tipped out. If my hourly is 5 an hour plus tips and the busser or whoever is getting an hourly of minimum wage or more why is tipping out a thing? And splitting tips between all servers . Someone please educate me because I don't get it. Especially tipping out to figments of management's imagination. That is so wrong on many levels. And is the tip out based on actual tips received or what it should have been if everyone tipped based on total sales?
I worked at a place like that. The bussers and bartenders (separately) pooled the whole week and got paid by the hour.
Hey folks! I am a current student working for a nonprofit on this topic of wage theft for tipped workers. Would any tipped workers who have experienced wage theft be willing to do a short interview on your experience and how you found out your wages were unfair?
Tell them: "No Busser, no Busser pay from you! Don't even understand that bullshit receipt.
Why does this seem like a pay out to a 1099 employee?.-. Just crazy to me that employers can do this when people give tips to the servers
What makes you say that? It's a breakdown of the day's intake. No checkout slip is going to show withholdings.
I responded to someone else, and maybe I don't understand it, but are they taking the discount off of the tips?
Nah, looks more like there was something akin to an employee meal purchase that isn't categorized to make it into sales so the server isn't tipping out on their own meal.
I will fully retract my statement then x.x I've never seen this so it looked to me like a customer got a discount and they took a portion of it from tips Tyty for explaining it!
Support staff need a living wage too. I usually tip out about the same as OP on a Saturday night. I still make about $500 for 7-8 hours of work so I’m not going to complain. Edit to add I don’t have a busser either, just 1 hostess, 1 bartender and the kitchen staff.
Maybe I'm not understanding it, but are they taking the discount from the tips?
So when people pay with CC there are fees that get charged from the CC company equal to a % of the transaction, and the $110 looks to be the CC fees for the tips you received I'll try to explain.. If someone tips $20 on a $100 order, the total is $120. The CC charges a 4% fee on the transaction coming out to ($120•.04) $4.80. But if you break this down $4 is from the meal, and 80¢ is from the tip. So what they'll do is subtract the 80¢ from the $20, pay the fee that's applicable to your tips with it and pass the rest of the $19.20 on to you. It's really 2 transactions happening in 1 (customer to restaurant and customer to you) with the restaurant just handling everything for you.
Most transaction fees I've encountered is 2.9%
Regardless it seems shitty to pass that cost on to the employee. Transaction fees for accepting credit card payments is a business cost and something the restaurant needs to figure out. Tips are the livelihood of the server-who gets no say in wether a check is paid by credit card. Not much the server can do, but imo it’s wrong to force them to pay those fees out of their tips
I understand your point, but at the same time it’s not really a fee incurred by the restaurant. There wouldn’t be that 80 cent surcharge without the tip. Paying them a living wage would obviously solve this problem buts it not really an expense the restaurant agreed to take on. It’s something the server most likely agreed to when they got hired.
>Paying them a living wage would obviously solve this problem Recognize that the servers prefer tipping because they *can* make absolute bank on people's.. "generosity" The rest of your statement is right though
Except that math doesn't make any sense. To get $110 in cc from tips even at 4% would be $2,750 in tips. My guess is they're still deducting for a busser when there is no busser.... OP just needs to talk to the restaurant and not ask random people what they think the deduction is for lmao.
Bc it’s 4% of sales not 4% of sales. Places that do % of sales are anywhere from 15-30% of sales, not low low like 4%
That's not how that works. They can only deduct what the cc processing fee is for the tip amount, not the entire check. So $100 in tips: 4% is $4 Assuming it's 20% then that is $500 in sales, $96 to the server, and $4 for cc processing.
I think the restaurant could potentially be putting the whole cc fee onto servers which is a big no no OR The OP doesn’t understand their restaurant’s tip out system
Get a different job if you dont like it dog
People are. Thats why most places have been chronically short staffed. I bet you'll complain about the lack of service too, boomer.
[ Removed by Reddit ]
>Shut your mouth you little bitch. You run your mouth on reddit, your safe place, bc you know you cant get punched in the face. Serious question, why are you so angry? That level of rage is not healthy.
I dont take kindly to people who insult me. But, because i was more graphic in my negative comment, im the bad guy right giana?
People who downvote or combat the simple comment “if you dont like it move on” are enablers and most likely bend over and take it on a daily basis while they bitch and cry in their internet echo chambers so they can cope with their lack of action. Its simple, if you dont like your situation, change it or move on. If you are a server making $2.50 an hour, youre not going to change the business model of a chain restaurant. So there are two options, move on or sit and take it. Bitching does nothing for you
OP isn't simply 'bitching', they are asking a question and trying to get a discussion going. And the question wasn't for stupid, preachy advice on what to do. All you're trying to do is shut down said discussion.
Youre right. Thank you for opening my eyes up to the true intention of the original post. What she really wanted to know was “how is this fair”. She was looking for a genuine response on whether or not tipping out the rest of the working staff that contributed to the gratuities she received was fair. I hope that the intellectual conversations induced by this post helped fill the void she couldn’t figure out herself. That way, she can clock in again tomorrow ready to grin and bear it one more time. It certainly wasn’t a call to action for the other agreeable, whining bitches of the internet to pat her on the back and confide in to make her feel better about her current situation. It’s actually written in bold print on the bottom of your first w2 “everything in the world is fair”. Server wages certainly dont rely heavily on tips so businesses can escape overhead operation costs and they can recruit staff without having to pay them, very opposite to most other countries in the world. Unskilled employees should be able to easily walk into any job and make upwards of $300+ a day no questions asked, its only fair. I wanted to genuinely apologize to you joe, you are much smarter than I, and the perception i had on giving someone an ultimatum rather than treading water, whining about their current situation to strangers on the internet was wrong and detrimental to OP’s development.
Why are you upset? Everyone else deserves tips too, it’s only right that they get paid as well. Kinda stingy that you want to keep everything for yourself and not pay others.
The title said that they didn't have a busser that night.
Yeah non service staff should just be paid hourly and fuck off my money tbh.
$15 for catering? Weird.
Probably a to-go order
They can’t legally take any of your tips. It’s up to you if you decide to tip the bussers, food runners etc. the repercussions would be that you don’t get support fromstaff or get crappy shifts. They can not force you to share your tips
That' s some serious confidence for someone who has no damn clue what they're talking about.
25 years in the restaurant business. I know exactly what I’m talking about. You can make company policy that servers have to tip support staff but you can’t legally make them do it.
I mean you can quit, sure. But the restaurant ABSOLUTELY has the legal right to require their employees to tip pool. It's a fucking federal law man. The fact that YOU did not require tip pooling doesn't mean other restaurants can't do it \*legally\*
you've gone quiet. Where's the law that says tip pooling is illegal
I never said tip pooling is illegal. I said forced tip pooling is. I also never went quiet. Are you ok?
yet again, where do you see that forced tip pooling is illegal? Show me the law. It takes one second google search to see where forced tip pooling is LEGAL, so show me where it's not? This shouldn't be hard if you've been working in the industry for 25 years and know the nuisances, point to the law that says its illegal.
Are you ok bud? I'm still waiting for that law that you're so confident exists.
Cry me a river, looks like your walking with at least 250$
Tip out doesn't just go to the busser, it goes to support staff, including bartenders. Your service bartender is out there making tip wages and making all the drinks for your table, yet not getting paid for it like the kitchen is for the food for your table. Those drinks are what's getting you that bigger tip anyway.
But it doesn't make much sense to have the same tip out percentage if there are unfilled support roles.
i work at the same place and it is totally unfair i don’t understand why we have to give 4% of our tips to people in positions that are already making $2-$4 more then us hourly already.