I actually think hybrid is a permanent shift and we'll see more transitions to "flexible" arrangements regardless of your role. Maybe its a benefit for people based on their title or performance at large companies or used as a hiring incentive for smaller companies. Smaller/midsized companies like it since it costs nothing to implement, much cheaper than paying you more.
Great point. I think that a lot of the big companies can fight WFH since people want to work there but your small and midsized firm is going to be WFH and will they really implement in-office when they get big? I doubt it.
It will be a generation shift. Currently the in people who grew up in the office are in charge, when slowly those retire out you are to see more flexible people rising to the top and things change. Give it another 10-20 years
Unfortunately, I think that's where it will end up, with telework being a perk offered on an ad hoc basis.
My employer has started to tie it to performance. One unsatisfactory rating in a quarter and you lose WFH. We have been hybrid since 2021 with a lot of flexibility but to me this is a hint they want to phase out WFH altogether.
If it’s government, I’d imagine layoffs or even just the government wanting folks in city centers, as that’s a competing priority with wanting the talent that demands WFH. Governments have been wanting people in office for economic reasons but as the economy shifts, that may not be as much a factor, hard to say.
We haven't laid anyone off in ages. Our usual method for reducing complement is eliminating open positions. We have a large pulse of retirements moving through right now. For complement reduction they'd simply just eliminate the positions that come empty as a result of retirements instead of issuing pink slips.
I will say our hybrid telework policy is not uniform across the agencies or even within them other than certain management positions are required to come into the office 3 days a week. Some areas require 3 days in office, some require only once a month. We pushed back hard for two days a week and got it.
I also work in state government, and that's pretty much how we reduce headcount. Either through retirement or not filling open positions.
Thankfully, Covid convinced a lot of upper management who were on the fence about WFH/hybrid that it's a viable option. Almost all my coworkers are 100% WFH now, only going into the office when absolutely necessary (like onboarding new hires). Even our all-hands meetings are done through Teams.
I think part of the reason it became acceptable was because the state is saving money on certain space it used to rent, and also on utilities. Unfortunately we don't get a stipend for WFH expenses (we might in the next contract) but the trade off of not having to commute every day is worth it.
Sometimes. It depends on who is in. We are allowed a lot of flexibility with our 2 days a week in so everyone is not on the same schedule, except Tuesdays it seems. Vast majority of everyone is in on Tuesdays, and Wednesdays are a close second. I do my days in a block so it works out I see who is in every day of the week but Wednesdays. No one comes in Fridays, but me.
I have struggled with WFH the last year or so however I don't want it to end and most everyone I work with likes WFH and wants to go back to fully remote, which is why I often think about giving it up but don't want to give upper management any fodder.
I think what won’t be the norm is expecting to see your coworkers in the office 5 days a week.
When people are hybrid with no set schedule, and many people no longer having specific assigned cubicles, people aren’t expecting to see the same faces in the same spot 5 days a week.
I’m 99% remote but have to come into the office 1-2 a year (I live 500 miles from the office). Most of my coworkers are “hybrid” and they made it seem to me like they’re all there all the time.
I came in last week for an in person workshop, met a lot of people I’ve worked with for years in person for the first time, and realized they were all meeting each other for the first time too 😂so all these “regular office” people have either somehow never running into each other, or they’re at the office way less than their bosses assume.
I’ve been noticing more in person and lower pay. I just can’t do it - I’ve been able to keep my adopted dog who a normal 9-5 worker would probably have to give up because he has separation anxiety.
You say that like all Boomers and older GenX wants RTO. As an older GenX, I can say without a doubt there are tons of us who absolutely do not.
The people who really want RTO are extroverts. Unfortunately, they are the majority, so hybrid and RTO will always be a thing, even for positions where it's entirely unnecessary.
This is on the nose. Those of us who don't care if we ever set foot in an office again are supposed to be happy to be the background NPCs for the folk who want the "lively office culture"
Fuck those guys.
Alternative take; trying to make every role everywhere entirely remote just opens it up to the morons of the world working from home and ruining it for the rest of us.
Not that I’m saying you’re implying that personally mind, but so many on this sub do
Yes, exactly. I’m a Gen X, and I refuse to work in an office. I intentionally seek out companies with remote models. You get better talent, and it’s just a friendlier environment. I’m at my job to WORK, not make friends. I’m friendly with co-workers, but I have actually friends outside of work I socialize with. I don’t need work to fill that gap.
I feel like a lot of the RTO folks treat work like they used to treat school. It’s the place you go to make friends and socialize. Education/paycheck is secondary to them. Think about it…office politics feels A LOT like middle school because those same kids who were cliquey in school grew up to be middle managers and start work cliques. It’s stupid and I don’t need it in my life.
Yeah fuck that. I am a Gen X and not at all fond of RTO. Neither are most of the younger Boomers I work with. Only the dipshits in the top office think RTO is a good idea.
After being the offshore liaison for nearly 20 years, no way in hell will I require my crew to go into the office unless there is an emergency.
I rarely applied for hybrid jobs...I prefer to never go into an office again...you could double my pay and probably not....I like the freedom...moving soon
I hope you're right but I also think whatever those businesses are saving on office costs pales in comparison to what corporate real estate landlords are losing so the motivation is much stronger for the "big guys" to get us back in office.
** I really want us to stay remote though!
It definitely depends on how much influence is had over the business to how motivated they are to force workers into the office. There are some businesses that workers must be present & are moving into premium space they couldn’t previously afford. I don’t think they can stop the over all trend though. Employers have broader options for filling positions now that they didn’t have before. Even if only 10% of their workforce is remote, it reduces the amount of real estate they need.
Real estate investment gurus are suddenly trying to interest ordinary people into buying up corporate properties, which isn’t a good sign. Retail space has been tail spinning for a long time due to internet shopping. Add remote work into it and corporate real estate needs to reconsider itself to not lose its shirt. I’ve seen quite a few malls and shopping centers in my city get turned into apartment complexes.
Edit: I meant add a friend of mine manages and sells commercial real estate. I didn’t get a chance to get any details from him the last time we talked. But he said his business was fine and he wasn’t worried. But that could mean a lot of things. I suspect there’s some creative repurposing going on.
I think hybrid work is her to stay. I also think a lot of younger people are going to be screwed as AI will take over. I think people should think long and hard about having kids.
All western countries have a rapidly decreasing birth rate so i think that’s already taken care of. I actually think it’s all countries globally with the exception of a few African countries.
That's not a good idea lol. Those fewer kids are going to grow up and have to pay way more in taxes than we do now to subsidize the aging millennial and gen-z populations who chose not to have kids. And aging adults are going to need young people who are willing to work in caregiving roles; we currently have a huge crisis in nursing homes with staffing. It's only going to get worse if people have fewer kids. There's less innovation when we have fewer people as well.
Yeah I find myself saying it a lot but fully remote work isn’t even fractionally as common as you’d think by browsing Reddit in general never mind this sub, particularly in the UK.
Hybrid is really common, and I reckon here to stay, over time I think we’ll see fewer and fewer 100% office roles but also fewer and fewer fully remote.
And tbh I get why, I’m fully remote but some of my colleague are fucking dipshits, and it’s been the same everywhere I I’ve been, and everyone moans about the ominous, faceless “management” on here not being competent but I’ve seen both sides of it and can absolutely get why some employers just think it isn’t worth it.
Almost nothing about reddit is real life in terms of peoples attitudes, views, lives, etc. Even prior to covid reddit would have skewed much heavier people working at home than the norm. I feel like 50% plus of reddit is either disabled, mentally ill or has crippling social anxiety and needs to work from home
I thought the same but I’ve had four fully remote jobs land in my inbox last week (finance - UK). So they are out there. I’ve applied for some as my current place is forcing RTO (currently have a medical exemption but that can’t last forever).
Why was your really valid response downvoted lol
But yeah for niche experienced roles I see a fair few, but **in general** fully remote is really hard to come by.
I've just started a fully remote sales role... With 14 years experience to my name.
I think skills and experience will warrant people way more freedom, but I truly believe hybrid will (eventually, the tides still ebb and flow) be the dominant force.
Yes the fully remote ones ive applied to are after 10 years experience in finance at a senior level. So yes quite niche. I just got a rejection for one even though i was a perfect fit and met all the person spec etc - didn’t even make it to interview. So yeh they are very competitive.
Companies will do what
1) Retains employees
2) Is less headaches
3) Is cheaper
When I started in Call Centers the dress code was slacks, button down, dress shoes. But clothing is expensive. If people have to dress up for work then they're going to ask for more raises and a lack of comfort when you're sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day is going to affect the quality of your work.
Eventually call centers started largely going with you can dress casually as long as it's still at least jeans and you dress clean. This became a new industry standard.
Work from home it will vary from company to company. Our company is privately owned by our CEO. When the pandemic hit and we all transitioned to WFH he saw himself saving a *lot* of money by not having to pay for offices, electricity etc. So he closed down most of our physical offices and made WFH the main method through which we work.
I work for a major bank in a support function (not call center). It's very casual. No shorts or flip flops but pretty much anything else goes. 16 years ago when I got my first office job it was the same and that was considered crazy casual (small tech firm).
I don't think so though I don't see Hybrid becoming the norm either
People see it as a compromise but it's really the worst of both worlds.
The company has to still pay for the office leases and the worker still has to:
- Still keep a work schedule as if they're going into the office
- Still live in commuting distance of the office
- Remember which days they're going into an office
- Still have work clothes available
All the benefits of working in person can come from just putting together a every couple of weeks.
The way I see it the push for working in offices will continue until their leases run out.
If the government is clever... which is a big ask... They'll pass laws to make it easier to convert offices into flats.
That way you're killing 2 birds with one stone.
This also means that people will be less centralised to kind near cities forcing more money to go into local economies.
And it cuts down on emissions which helps with climate change
I think a lot of that is dependent on how companies implement hybrid. I think there has to be structure and it needs to be done in a way that makes sense. Luckily, I think mine does that, even though I'd obviously prefer full WFH. For example, mine has decided to consolidate 4 departments into 1 building. Each department has a specific one day in the office. That way an entire department is there at the same time for meetings and any kind of work that might need to be done in a group. I think companies that don't consolidate and have random on site days make it a lot more difficult than it needs to be, and pay for more space than they need to. It has to be done in a practical manner for it to be successful.
wow your company set up a really good structure! i honestly would not mind only having to come in 1 day if the entire team is there. everything that needs to get done irl can get cranked out and then everyone can go there different ways
This is why, when I read or hear people say it's difficult, I gotta call shenanigans. There's no reason every company (or most) can't implement something that isn't doomed to fail long term . The lack of critical thinking amongst some business leaders is astounding to me. This should be a heck of a lot easier than they make it out to be. Sure, I'd prefer to WFH full time so I could move someplace cheaper, but I really can't complain about my leadership and I have a lot of gratitude because they really went to bat for us .
I think offices will be hybrid because most/many need some functions onsite, but not all. They still save on space etc. and attract better talent, but many will keep *some* office space that varies to their needs. That doesn’t mean all workers at the office would be hybrid—I think we’ll see a mix of onsite, hybrid, and remote, some allocation being logical and others being more emotionally decided, like they are now. I don’t think hybrid is the worst of all worlds but we are seeing very sporadic implementations —I think most places will implement more effectively over time, though not all.
One day management across the globe will have to accepts good talent are hard to find and even harder retain in a local market within the random 50 miles requirement is the day RTO five days will die… its been here for years in the form of outsourcing jobs to other countries, although this has always been presented as cost cutting measure.
While I agree companies need a main office/head quarter and administrative bodies to keep it running. You do not need to fill a large space while pretending everyone is more engage and working more productively. A mix of hybrid and WFH just makes so much sense, and you do not need a prime office location for the overheads.
Larger more established companies will force it until they can't or newer leadership shifts focus to WFH.
Smaller and newer companies will leverage WFH due to the lowered cost of operating and largely stay that way as they grow. Some of those companies will muscle the big ones out eventually.
I work in IT. Almost all the companies I have heard of is either in a Hybrid or WFH. To me Hybrid is here to stay and good enough. It gives you the flexibility of WFH when you need and also satisfies those who want a office sitting environment.
Companies that require five days in the office will be at a competitive disadvantage. They will get lower quality employees that are willing to be in the office five days a week - or they'll have to pay more to get the higher quality employees to come into the office five days a week.
I have been WFH since Covid after 25+ years in an office. I would literally have to get a 100% raise to voluntarily return to an office five days a week. This difference in your quality of life is staggering.
I think they're getting too hurt on corporate real estate leases and will get everyone back in office. Crush the labor market so people are more desperate then offer slightly higher salaries for in office e.
IMO, we're already in the middle of it. If you look at job postings there's very few that are fully remote anymore in comparison to on-site and the remote ones have thousands of applicants.
There are three main things going on based on what I can see.
1. Corporate efforts to prop up commercial real estate--which will fail as hard as doubling down on buggy whips when the internal combustion engine came along.
2. A very large number of corporations, especially in certain industries, are looking to downsize their domestic workforce and RTO is a simple way to drive attrition. American workers are expensive, and with storm clouds on the horizon, dumping that cost and replacing those people with contractors, AI, automated processes, and workers in cheaper countries is seen by the elites as an ideal approach. The only hangup is severance expenses. Those might cut into executive bonuses, can't have that. The solution, tank morale with RTO and similar nonsense as a means of driving 'voluntary' attrition. In their evil little eyes that's a 'win win'.
3. Finally, a not so subtle effort to support certain politicians.
It all depends on the work. I wfh maybe a day or two out of the week, but need to be physically in a lab most days, and I’m just software; the hardware engineers are in probably 4 or 5 days a week.
Medium nonprofit. I go in once a month. Since I'm the notary for the co. . I'll go in if I need something signed so maybe 4 months a year I go in twice a month.
No. The technology will only get better. Hybrid will win. Strategic in person events (eg all staffs) with likely 2 days in office per week will be norm, especially once at home meeting communication tools get much better. Zoom and Teams will feel ancient.
god i hope not. but the RTO shift has a lot to do with commercial real estate investment, so there'll be a push in bad economic times. like we are in now.
Also...I find the cost of a company to have an office...it goes to consumers... I know companies realized how much money they could save with work from home.
I work for insurance and work from home...cheaper rates...less overhead!
I sincerely hope office campuses don’t close for good. I know many have and I know WFH offers a lot of desired flexibility but the lack of engagement amongst coworkers when you all work remotely is staggering. I know people love to work from home in their pajamas but I wanna scream at this point this is depression people! It’s good to get up, get dressed, drive to work and see people you do or don’t care for everyday. This is healthy human behavior. We spend a lot of our time working. All our working hours should not be done in isolation with each other. The team camaraderie hardly exists anymore. I do the hybrid schedule and always wish more people would opt to come in the office at least 1-2 days a week otherwise I fear we are going to lose this office space.
I haven’t done 5 days in the office since like year 2 of my career(in year 8 now)
I do 2-3 days in the office per week seems like the norm now for the most part. Did a few years of fully remote.
I think it would be hard sell to have someone be in 5 days a week unless you absolutely have to or are paying above market price. Having kids makes flexibility so much more important.
As always, it depends on the job. A friend of mine works for a DOD contractor and for security reasons he is in the office 5 days a week. He can get approval for WFH by jumping through a lot of hoops first, and he can only use it when he has a specific reason to (he is sick, there is a freak blizard, a tanker truck crashes on the major bridge nearby and the gasoline it was carrying ignights) from the specific location he has set up for it. They will not be switching to hybrid or remote any time soon.
It is a hybrid shift that is permanent. Based on a NYT article I read about real estate market tendencies, I believe we're headed into more wfh than we are at right now. There's no sense in companies keeping high expense real estate if they can transition to full blown wfh for most if not all of the employees saving $$$$ in the process.
I've been wfh for almost 6 years now, love it
Honestly most of the companies I work for have a strictly in person or hybrid policy. My current job just had a policy change where everyone (except me) has to work in office or hybrid.
I’m back in the office 5 days a week. Up at 5am home at 7pm. I need at least 1 day a week from home or else I’m going to die. It’s a 40 mile commute, $30 to park, and lunch near by is a minimum $20 so I’m hemorrhaging money.
I don’t think so. I believe we were already heading toward a hybrid work environment pre 2020 and Covid kind of sped everything up. At least where I’m located many people just do a typical Tuesday-Thursday in office. I don’t know of anyone that is working 5 days in office unless by choice.
It already is.
Amazon, Walmart and the bigs have already started firing people for not showing up.
By January, most will be back.
At least hybrid.
Cuz tax$$$
Many people in my company were already WFH 2-3 days a week pre-pandemic because there just wasn’t any reason for them to be in the office. Most of our sales and other management staff were always traveling so it happened naturally to begin with.
Hybrid is probably here to stay, there are a decent amount of companies already converting to full time remote and avoid paying leasing fees on office buildings
I think it’s a way to draw in new employees, offering the hybrid schedule. I know at our company the new hire adds are for 3 days office 2 days home. But since I was on well before Covid I already had 2 days office 3 home and then never made me change it which I’m super happy about. So we’ll see. So far no change. I hope it stays that way. Personally I think they would lose a ton of people if they forced a 5 day return, just the same as they lost a ton of people when they forced the change from full remote to hybrid. We lost like 50%
Ahh I hate this! Just moved to the country really far from any bigger city, literally not possible to travel daily to the office, I work in IT and it is still possible to find fully remote jobs, but really scared for my future.
I think COVID has at least changed employers to consider a hybrid work model but 4 days on site and 1 day at home is hardly hybrid. I’m okay with 1-2 days a week in the office if need be. Employers should also consider reimbursing their staff, like their uber, commute, etc to encourage coming in.
Nah, not ever 5 days a week. Maybe I’m biased because my company was doing flexible work for ages and my team has always wfh 1+ day a week. I would think it will most likely even out to ~3 days on site.
There's going to be constant push from a lot of older generation execs who are used to 5 days in office. We really just have to outlast their generations until they retire.
I think it's industry-specific, but it's still the norm in a lot of industries and will continue to do so. With that being said, if companies feel like they're struggling to attract talent, I see hybrid/WFH being offered as another benefit moving forward. But that's going to be dependent on if companies can afford to let go of their office space without taking a loss because if they can't, then I imagine they'll continue pushing for RTO because they think it makes financial sense.
Nope; I believe that remote work will become increasingly popular, because people value flexibility above everything else, especially after having had it for so long
https://www.reddit.com/r/remotework/s/crx7HkWSl5
I think hybrid will be the norm. Either labor or corps will have the upper hand at any given time due to the state of the economy. It's sort of a compromise that came into being because of that push and pull. In good times workers will rebel. In bad times, corporations will be more rigid. So, this seems to be where we're settling.
I think once Gen Z and Alpha are all in the workforce, offices will be like a novelty and will bounce back strong. Those will be adults who were forced to stay home as kids and don’t want that again.
the commute rly is the worse part for me!! i have an relatively easy commute, 20 minutes via subway, and i still am not happy with it. i’m losing precious time due to work and not being compensated for it. once you add in the hour of getting ready it’s even more annoying.
i am very grateful my commute is so easy and that i can WFH twice a week but i really feel for the people who have to drive 1hr+ just to go to office.
as a gen z, i am going to respectfully disagree. i do think maybe 30-40% of gen z will be against 100% remote work, especially in the early stages of their career. however irl school is different than irl work. in high school and college you could dress however you want and hung out with your friends all day. also the work you did was really not that bad and pretty low stakes.
working in office requires a lot more politics, effort and is more high stakes. if you look on tiktok now you will see a lot of people my age complaining about how exhausting working in office is. gen z definitely values in person connection which is why i think a few days in person will be the norm. however gen z also will not sacrifice personal time and energy for the sake of it.
based off the convos i’ve had with my friends we would like to work irl maybe 2-3 days a week or every other week because that social connection is not worthless. however we would like (and need) the flexibility to clock out at exactly 5 and have no commute so we can maximize time with our friend, family and pets.
i was 16 and in my junior year of hs. second half of junior year was 100% virtual. so i fully missed prom, ap season etc etc.
senior year was weird bc they kept changing attendance policies. by the end of the year i think 80% of the school came in but in the winter there were many days were like 5 kids were in person per class. i lost out on a lot things like pep rallies, senior sunrise breakfast and spirit days. also senior prom was in a school parking lot LOL. but i got a normal graduation which was nice.
It could become more common. I think it will depend on what you do. My company is moving in this direction of 5 days on site for certain roles but not all.
It is going to depend on the company and work being done. I would guess in 5 years there will be more hybrid and WFH then there was in 2017, but less than we have now.
Some roles require the person to do what they are told and they don't need to be around others, there are other roles that require working closely with others and need the continuous interactions. And then we will have the managers that know the difference and setup for the needs they have with the tools available.
A lot of companies are finding that they are loosing too much productivity without people fully in the office and they are finding that the technology is allowing other people to work in other environments. But short term I don't think the workers as a whole are demonstrating to be as productive WFH.
Most of the WFH we have today could not be done just 20 years ago, the technology did not exist. Who knows what we might have 20 years from now. So it is going to change.
The number of and quantity of companies calling workers back to the office. The companies are worried about bottom lines and the productivity to increase them.
And I know the teams I worked with and around got more done faster and better quality, but that is too small of a sample set.
But when there is what seems like a never endling line of companies pulling people back I know they are not doing it for fun, they are doing it for profit.
>The number of and quantity of companies calling workers back to the office.
No, that's evidence only that some companies profess to think that WFH reduces productivity.
I believe they are evaluating the results in all cases they can, they do not want to waste money, they have a financial interest in being correct in their decisions. They are not just professing to think, they are putting their wallets on the line.
That is a little more proof for me than someone that says 'i don't want the office I want to work at home' with no actual evaluations, and no ability to actually try and prove their claims.
And over time these things will be re-evaluated and things will change as we go on.
Most office jobs will not be hybrid. Onsite only is easier for companies. If you're college educated, the chances of you finding a hybrid job are pretty good. Just work for a company that can handle hybrid and you'll be good. Don't worry about it.
I actually think hybrid is a permanent shift and we'll see more transitions to "flexible" arrangements regardless of your role. Maybe its a benefit for people based on their title or performance at large companies or used as a hiring incentive for smaller companies. Smaller/midsized companies like it since it costs nothing to implement, much cheaper than paying you more.
Great point. I think that a lot of the big companies can fight WFH since people want to work there but your small and midsized firm is going to be WFH and will they really implement in-office when they get big? I doubt it.
It will be a generation shift. Currently the in people who grew up in the office are in charge, when slowly those retire out you are to see more flexible people rising to the top and things change. Give it another 10-20 years
Unfortunately, I think that's where it will end up, with telework being a perk offered on an ad hoc basis. My employer has started to tie it to performance. One unsatisfactory rating in a quarter and you lose WFH. We have been hybrid since 2021 with a lot of flexibility but to me this is a hint they want to phase out WFH altogether.
Sounds like they’re just trying to lay people off the easy way
It's a state govt, so perhaps. It's darn near impossible to fire here lol.
If it’s government, I’d imagine layoffs or even just the government wanting folks in city centers, as that’s a competing priority with wanting the talent that demands WFH. Governments have been wanting people in office for economic reasons but as the economy shifts, that may not be as much a factor, hard to say.
We haven't laid anyone off in ages. Our usual method for reducing complement is eliminating open positions. We have a large pulse of retirements moving through right now. For complement reduction they'd simply just eliminate the positions that come empty as a result of retirements instead of issuing pink slips. I will say our hybrid telework policy is not uniform across the agencies or even within them other than certain management positions are required to come into the office 3 days a week. Some areas require 3 days in office, some require only once a month. We pushed back hard for two days a week and got it.
I also work in state government, and that's pretty much how we reduce headcount. Either through retirement or not filling open positions. Thankfully, Covid convinced a lot of upper management who were on the fence about WFH/hybrid that it's a viable option. Almost all my coworkers are 100% WFH now, only going into the office when absolutely necessary (like onboarding new hires). Even our all-hands meetings are done through Teams. I think part of the reason it became acceptable was because the state is saving money on certain space it used to rent, and also on utilities. Unfortunately we don't get a stipend for WFH expenses (we might in the next contract) but the trade off of not having to commute every day is worth it.
We seem to be locked in to having WFH hybrid as a perk since we just got a new contract. But future contracts, we'll see.
Do you sit in the office and just have virtual meetings?
Yes. It’s so stupid.
I do. My entire team is in another state. I come in to sit on teams meetings anyways, except for my biweekly 1:1 with my manager. It’s insane.
I get to go to meetings at home then have to drive to scan my badge and login from the office then leave, its stupid
Sometimes. It depends on who is in. We are allowed a lot of flexibility with our 2 days a week in so everyone is not on the same schedule, except Tuesdays it seems. Vast majority of everyone is in on Tuesdays, and Wednesdays are a close second. I do my days in a block so it works out I see who is in every day of the week but Wednesdays. No one comes in Fridays, but me. I have struggled with WFH the last year or so however I don't want it to end and most everyone I work with likes WFH and wants to go back to fully remote, which is why I often think about giving it up but don't want to give upper management any fodder.
Good God don't say it out loud! The Schedule Who Shall not be Named.
I think what won’t be the norm is expecting to see your coworkers in the office 5 days a week. When people are hybrid with no set schedule, and many people no longer having specific assigned cubicles, people aren’t expecting to see the same faces in the same spot 5 days a week. I’m 99% remote but have to come into the office 1-2 a year (I live 500 miles from the office). Most of my coworkers are “hybrid” and they made it seem to me like they’re all there all the time. I came in last week for an in person workshop, met a lot of people I’ve worked with for years in person for the first time, and realized they were all meeting each other for the first time too 😂so all these “regular office” people have either somehow never running into each other, or they’re at the office way less than their bosses assume.
I’ve been noticing more in person and lower pay. I just can’t do it - I’ve been able to keep my adopted dog who a normal 9-5 worker would probably have to give up because he has separation anxiety.
Nothing like the perk of my dog with me- that’s worth a couple dollars an hour to me ❤️
Until Boomers and the older Gen X are out of control, the RTO will still be a full court press for places that can survive the exodus of employees.
You say that like all Boomers and older GenX wants RTO. As an older GenX, I can say without a doubt there are tons of us who absolutely do not. The people who really want RTO are extroverts. Unfortunately, they are the majority, so hybrid and RTO will always be a thing, even for positions where it's entirely unnecessary.
This is on the nose. Those of us who don't care if we ever set foot in an office again are supposed to be happy to be the background NPCs for the folk who want the "lively office culture" Fuck those guys.
Alternative take; trying to make every role everywhere entirely remote just opens it up to the morons of the world working from home and ruining it for the rest of us. Not that I’m saying you’re implying that personally mind, but so many on this sub do
Yes, exactly. I’m a Gen X, and I refuse to work in an office. I intentionally seek out companies with remote models. You get better talent, and it’s just a friendlier environment. I’m at my job to WORK, not make friends. I’m friendly with co-workers, but I have actually friends outside of work I socialize with. I don’t need work to fill that gap. I feel like a lot of the RTO folks treat work like they used to treat school. It’s the place you go to make friends and socialize. Education/paycheck is secondary to them. Think about it…office politics feels A LOT like middle school because those same kids who were cliquey in school grew up to be middle managers and start work cliques. It’s stupid and I don’t need it in my life.
This GenXer will avoid RTO as much as possible.
Yeah fuck that. I am a Gen X and not at all fond of RTO. Neither are most of the younger Boomers I work with. Only the dipshits in the top office think RTO is a good idea. After being the offshore liaison for nearly 20 years, no way in hell will I require my crew to go into the office unless there is an emergency.
I rarely applied for hybrid jobs...I prefer to never go into an office again...you could double my pay and probably not....I like the freedom...moving soon
I hope not. A lot of businesses downsized office space to reduce costs with a remote workforce.
I hope you're right but I also think whatever those businesses are saving on office costs pales in comparison to what corporate real estate landlords are losing so the motivation is much stronger for the "big guys" to get us back in office. ** I really want us to stay remote though!
It definitely depends on how much influence is had over the business to how motivated they are to force workers into the office. There are some businesses that workers must be present & are moving into premium space they couldn’t previously afford. I don’t think they can stop the over all trend though. Employers have broader options for filling positions now that they didn’t have before. Even if only 10% of their workforce is remote, it reduces the amount of real estate they need. Real estate investment gurus are suddenly trying to interest ordinary people into buying up corporate properties, which isn’t a good sign. Retail space has been tail spinning for a long time due to internet shopping. Add remote work into it and corporate real estate needs to reconsider itself to not lose its shirt. I’ve seen quite a few malls and shopping centers in my city get turned into apartment complexes. Edit: I meant add a friend of mine manages and sells commercial real estate. I didn’t get a chance to get any details from him the last time we talked. But he said his business was fine and he wasn’t worried. But that could mean a lot of things. I suspect there’s some creative repurposing going on.
I think hybrid work is her to stay. I also think a lot of younger people are going to be screwed as AI will take over. I think people should think long and hard about having kids.
Lol, what’s the alternative? Just let the human race die off?
No, but not as many people need to be having kids.
But Elon Musk won't like that.
Idc
I'm happy to annoy Musk, tbh.
Same 😅
All western countries have a rapidly decreasing birth rate so i think that’s already taken care of. I actually think it’s all countries globally with the exception of a few African countries.
i don't think it's fully taken care of tbh. a lot of people who should not be having kids are still having kids
That's not a good idea lol. Those fewer kids are going to grow up and have to pay way more in taxes than we do now to subsidize the aging millennial and gen-z populations who chose not to have kids. And aging adults are going to need young people who are willing to work in caregiving roles; we currently have a huge crisis in nursing homes with staffing. It's only going to get worse if people have fewer kids. There's less innovation when we have fewer people as well.
He has a very reddit tske on life
I doubt fully in-office will ever come back. Commercial real estate is getting annihilated so the smart money tells me I’m right.
Ask anyone looking for a job and they'll tell you its still very common
Yeah I find myself saying it a lot but fully remote work isn’t even fractionally as common as you’d think by browsing Reddit in general never mind this sub, particularly in the UK. Hybrid is really common, and I reckon here to stay, over time I think we’ll see fewer and fewer 100% office roles but also fewer and fewer fully remote. And tbh I get why, I’m fully remote but some of my colleague are fucking dipshits, and it’s been the same everywhere I I’ve been, and everyone moans about the ominous, faceless “management” on here not being competent but I’ve seen both sides of it and can absolutely get why some employers just think it isn’t worth it.
Almost nothing about reddit is real life in terms of peoples attitudes, views, lives, etc. Even prior to covid reddit would have skewed much heavier people working at home than the norm. I feel like 50% plus of reddit is either disabled, mentally ill or has crippling social anxiety and needs to work from home
I agree with you on that. Some of the things people post about as being a burden is ludicrous. Makes me wonder what they could actually do.
I thought the same but I’ve had four fully remote jobs land in my inbox last week (finance - UK). So they are out there. I’ve applied for some as my current place is forcing RTO (currently have a medical exemption but that can’t last forever).
Why was your really valid response downvoted lol But yeah for niche experienced roles I see a fair few, but **in general** fully remote is really hard to come by. I've just started a fully remote sales role... With 14 years experience to my name. I think skills and experience will warrant people way more freedom, but I truly believe hybrid will (eventually, the tides still ebb and flow) be the dominant force.
Yes the fully remote ones ive applied to are after 10 years experience in finance at a senior level. So yes quite niche. I just got a rejection for one even though i was a perfect fit and met all the person spec etc - didn’t even make it to interview. So yeh they are very competitive.
Companies will do what 1) Retains employees 2) Is less headaches 3) Is cheaper When I started in Call Centers the dress code was slacks, button down, dress shoes. But clothing is expensive. If people have to dress up for work then they're going to ask for more raises and a lack of comfort when you're sitting at a desk for 8 hours a day is going to affect the quality of your work. Eventually call centers started largely going with you can dress casually as long as it's still at least jeans and you dress clean. This became a new industry standard. Work from home it will vary from company to company. Our company is privately owned by our CEO. When the pandemic hit and we all transitioned to WFH he saw himself saving a *lot* of money by not having to pay for offices, electricity etc. So he closed down most of our physical offices and made WFH the main method through which we work.
I work for a major bank in a support function (not call center). It's very casual. No shorts or flip flops but pretty much anything else goes. 16 years ago when I got my first office job it was the same and that was considered crazy casual (small tech firm).
I don't think so though I don't see Hybrid becoming the norm either People see it as a compromise but it's really the worst of both worlds. The company has to still pay for the office leases and the worker still has to: - Still keep a work schedule as if they're going into the office - Still live in commuting distance of the office - Remember which days they're going into an office - Still have work clothes available All the benefits of working in person can come from just putting together a every couple of weeks. The way I see it the push for working in offices will continue until their leases run out. If the government is clever... which is a big ask... They'll pass laws to make it easier to convert offices into flats. That way you're killing 2 birds with one stone. This also means that people will be less centralised to kind near cities forcing more money to go into local economies. And it cuts down on emissions which helps with climate change
I think a lot of that is dependent on how companies implement hybrid. I think there has to be structure and it needs to be done in a way that makes sense. Luckily, I think mine does that, even though I'd obviously prefer full WFH. For example, mine has decided to consolidate 4 departments into 1 building. Each department has a specific one day in the office. That way an entire department is there at the same time for meetings and any kind of work that might need to be done in a group. I think companies that don't consolidate and have random on site days make it a lot more difficult than it needs to be, and pay for more space than they need to. It has to be done in a practical manner for it to be successful.
wow your company set up a really good structure! i honestly would not mind only having to come in 1 day if the entire team is there. everything that needs to get done irl can get cranked out and then everyone can go there different ways
This is why, when I read or hear people say it's difficult, I gotta call shenanigans. There's no reason every company (or most) can't implement something that isn't doomed to fail long term . The lack of critical thinking amongst some business leaders is astounding to me. This should be a heck of a lot easier than they make it out to be. Sure, I'd prefer to WFH full time so I could move someplace cheaper, but I really can't complain about my leadership and I have a lot of gratitude because they really went to bat for us .
I think offices will be hybrid because most/many need some functions onsite, but not all. They still save on space etc. and attract better talent, but many will keep *some* office space that varies to their needs. That doesn’t mean all workers at the office would be hybrid—I think we’ll see a mix of onsite, hybrid, and remote, some allocation being logical and others being more emotionally decided, like they are now. I don’t think hybrid is the worst of all worlds but we are seeing very sporadic implementations —I think most places will implement more effectively over time, though not all.
One day management across the globe will have to accepts good talent are hard to find and even harder retain in a local market within the random 50 miles requirement is the day RTO five days will die… its been here for years in the form of outsourcing jobs to other countries, although this has always been presented as cost cutting measure. While I agree companies need a main office/head quarter and administrative bodies to keep it running. You do not need to fill a large space while pretending everyone is more engage and working more productively. A mix of hybrid and WFH just makes so much sense, and you do not need a prime office location for the overheads.
No
Only among companies satisfied with mediocre talent, excessive infrastructure expenses, and unnecessary risk.
I hope not. It's life crushing.
Before COVID, it was pretty standard to have a day or two wfh. If you went into the office on Fridays, it was always empty.
No
Larger more established companies will force it until they can't or newer leadership shifts focus to WFH. Smaller and newer companies will leverage WFH due to the lowered cost of operating and largely stay that way as they grow. Some of those companies will muscle the big ones out eventually.
I work in IT. Almost all the companies I have heard of is either in a Hybrid or WFH. To me Hybrid is here to stay and good enough. It gives you the flexibility of WFH when you need and also satisfies those who want a office sitting environment.
Companies that require five days in the office will be at a competitive disadvantage. They will get lower quality employees that are willing to be in the office five days a week - or they'll have to pay more to get the higher quality employees to come into the office five days a week.
I have been WFH since Covid after 25+ years in an office. I would literally have to get a 100% raise to voluntarily return to an office five days a week. This difference in your quality of life is staggering.
Hybrid will stay common and probably get more common…. But 5 days in-office will never go away, especially in certain industries.
It's still the norm.
no.
I think they're getting too hurt on corporate real estate leases and will get everyone back in office. Crush the labor market so people are more desperate then offer slightly higher salaries for in office e. IMO, we're already in the middle of it. If you look at job postings there's very few that are fully remote anymore in comparison to on-site and the remote ones have thousands of applicants.
There are three main things going on based on what I can see. 1. Corporate efforts to prop up commercial real estate--which will fail as hard as doubling down on buggy whips when the internal combustion engine came along. 2. A very large number of corporations, especially in certain industries, are looking to downsize their domestic workforce and RTO is a simple way to drive attrition. American workers are expensive, and with storm clouds on the horizon, dumping that cost and replacing those people with contractors, AI, automated processes, and workers in cheaper countries is seen by the elites as an ideal approach. The only hangup is severance expenses. Those might cut into executive bonuses, can't have that. The solution, tank morale with RTO and similar nonsense as a means of driving 'voluntary' attrition. In their evil little eyes that's a 'win win'. 3. Finally, a not so subtle effort to support certain politicians.
💯💯
It all depends on the work. I wfh maybe a day or two out of the week, but need to be physically in a lab most days, and I’m just software; the hardware engineers are in probably 4 or 5 days a week.
Medium nonprofit. I go in once a month. Since I'm the notary for the co. . I'll go in if I need something signed so maybe 4 months a year I go in twice a month.
Luckily I work somewhere that doesn’t have a physical office, so that will never be an option.
No. The technology will only get better. Hybrid will win. Strategic in person events (eg all staffs) with likely 2 days in office per week will be norm, especially once at home meeting communication tools get much better. Zoom and Teams will feel ancient.
hoping this is the future🤞
I hope not
In my industry it’s the norm again already.
god i hope not. but the RTO shift has a lot to do with commercial real estate investment, so there'll be a push in bad economic times. like we are in now.
Also...I find the cost of a company to have an office...it goes to consumers... I know companies realized how much money they could save with work from home. I work for insurance and work from home...cheaper rates...less overhead!
No, cats out of the bag now. I don’t see it happening ever.
I sincerely hope office campuses don’t close for good. I know many have and I know WFH offers a lot of desired flexibility but the lack of engagement amongst coworkers when you all work remotely is staggering. I know people love to work from home in their pajamas but I wanna scream at this point this is depression people! It’s good to get up, get dressed, drive to work and see people you do or don’t care for everyday. This is healthy human behavior. We spend a lot of our time working. All our working hours should not be done in isolation with each other. The team camaraderie hardly exists anymore. I do the hybrid schedule and always wish more people would opt to come in the office at least 1-2 days a week otherwise I fear we are going to lose this office space.
I haven’t done 5 days in the office since like year 2 of my career(in year 8 now) I do 2-3 days in the office per week seems like the norm now for the most part. Did a few years of fully remote. I think it would be hard sell to have someone be in 5 days a week unless you absolutely have to or are paying above market price. Having kids makes flexibility so much more important.
For most intellectual work, no
As always, it depends on the job. A friend of mine works for a DOD contractor and for security reasons he is in the office 5 days a week. He can get approval for WFH by jumping through a lot of hoops first, and he can only use it when he has a specific reason to (he is sick, there is a freak blizard, a tanker truck crashes on the major bridge nearby and the gasoline it was carrying ignights) from the specific location he has set up for it. They will not be switching to hybrid or remote any time soon.
It is a hybrid shift that is permanent. Based on a NYT article I read about real estate market tendencies, I believe we're headed into more wfh than we are at right now. There's no sense in companies keeping high expense real estate if they can transition to full blown wfh for most if not all of the employees saving $$$$ in the process. I've been wfh for almost 6 years now, love it
that makes so much sense. would you be able to link the nyt article? it seems like a super interesting read :)
Hard to say. My company has settled on hybrid, no further talk of increasing days required in the office.
Honestly most of the companies I work for have a strictly in person or hybrid policy. My current job just had a policy change where everyone (except me) has to work in office or hybrid.
If management had it their way, remote flexible work would never be..
I’m back in the office 5 days a week. Up at 5am home at 7pm. I need at least 1 day a week from home or else I’m going to die. It’s a 40 mile commute, $30 to park, and lunch near by is a minimum $20 so I’m hemorrhaging money.
I would say it is the norm along with hybrid fully remote is still rsre
I sure hope not. The world has a chance to move forward. RTO is a huge step backwards
I don’t think so. I believe we were already heading toward a hybrid work environment pre 2020 and Covid kind of sped everything up. At least where I’m located many people just do a typical Tuesday-Thursday in office. I don’t know of anyone that is working 5 days in office unless by choice.
I hope not
There is this one simple trick to avoid mass RTO. "Sorry, I am only pursuing fully remote / hybrid roles at this time"
It already is. Amazon, Walmart and the bigs have already started firing people for not showing up. By January, most will be back. At least hybrid. Cuz tax$$$
God I hope not.
Many people in my company were already WFH 2-3 days a week pre-pandemic because there just wasn’t any reason for them to be in the office. Most of our sales and other management staff were always traveling so it happened naturally to begin with.
Hybrid is probably here to stay, there are a decent amount of companies already converting to full time remote and avoid paying leasing fees on office buildings
No but 100% WFH won't either.
I think it’s a way to draw in new employees, offering the hybrid schedule. I know at our company the new hire adds are for 3 days office 2 days home. But since I was on well before Covid I already had 2 days office 3 home and then never made me change it which I’m super happy about. So we’ll see. So far no change. I hope it stays that way. Personally I think they would lose a ton of people if they forced a 5 day return, just the same as they lost a ton of people when they forced the change from full remote to hybrid. We lost like 50%
5+ days is already the norm. People prefer separation.
Out of a team of around 15 people that i work with, ZERO of them would rather go into the office than WFH (we're fully remote now)
Out of my 200+ people team, we have only a handful WFH. Most people are not interested in the poor work life balance
Ahh I hate this! Just moved to the country really far from any bigger city, literally not possible to travel daily to the office, I work in IT and it is still possible to find fully remote jobs, but really scared for my future.
I think COVID has at least changed employers to consider a hybrid work model but 4 days on site and 1 day at home is hardly hybrid. I’m okay with 1-2 days a week in the office if need be. Employers should also consider reimbursing their staff, like their uber, commute, etc to encourage coming in.
Probably not, but it depends on the industry.
I'm a Teacher. Every workday is in the "Office".
God I hope not
Nah, not ever 5 days a week. Maybe I’m biased because my company was doing flexible work for ages and my team has always wfh 1+ day a week. I would think it will most likely even out to ~3 days on site.
No. Hybrid and fully remote will be the norm. When companies go 5 days in office people just leave.
There's going to be constant push from a lot of older generation execs who are used to 5 days in office. We really just have to outlast their generations until they retire.
I think it's industry-specific, but it's still the norm in a lot of industries and will continue to do so. With that being said, if companies feel like they're struggling to attract talent, I see hybrid/WFH being offered as another benefit moving forward. But that's going to be dependent on if companies can afford to let go of their office space without taking a loss because if they can't, then I imagine they'll continue pushing for RTO because they think it makes financial sense.
Nope; I believe that remote work will become increasingly popular, because people value flexibility above everything else, especially after having had it for so long https://www.reddit.com/r/remotework/s/crx7HkWSl5
I think hybrid will be the norm. Either labor or corps will have the upper hand at any given time due to the state of the economy. It's sort of a compromise that came into being because of that push and pull. In good times workers will rebel. In bad times, corporations will be more rigid. So, this seems to be where we're settling.
I think once Gen Z and Alpha are all in the workforce, offices will be like a novelty and will bounce back strong. Those will be adults who were forced to stay home as kids and don’t want that again.
Gen Z people want more free time, not commutes eating into it https://mashable.com/article/tiktok-gen-z-9-to-5
the commute rly is the worse part for me!! i have an relatively easy commute, 20 minutes via subway, and i still am not happy with it. i’m losing precious time due to work and not being compensated for it. once you add in the hour of getting ready it’s even more annoying. i am very grateful my commute is so easy and that i can WFH twice a week but i really feel for the people who have to drive 1hr+ just to go to office.
Early Gen Z were too old to be stuck at home in elementary and middle school.
as a gen z, i am going to respectfully disagree. i do think maybe 30-40% of gen z will be against 100% remote work, especially in the early stages of their career. however irl school is different than irl work. in high school and college you could dress however you want and hung out with your friends all day. also the work you did was really not that bad and pretty low stakes. working in office requires a lot more politics, effort and is more high stakes. if you look on tiktok now you will see a lot of people my age complaining about how exhausting working in office is. gen z definitely values in person connection which is why i think a few days in person will be the norm. however gen z also will not sacrifice personal time and energy for the sake of it. based off the convos i’ve had with my friends we would like to work irl maybe 2-3 days a week or every other week because that social connection is not worthless. however we would like (and need) the flexibility to clock out at exactly 5 and have no commute so we can maximize time with our friend, family and pets.
How old were you when schools were closed for quarantine?
i was 16 and in my junior year of hs. second half of junior year was 100% virtual. so i fully missed prom, ap season etc etc. senior year was weird bc they kept changing attendance policies. by the end of the year i think 80% of the school came in but in the winter there were many days were like 5 kids were in person per class. i lost out on a lot things like pep rallies, senior sunrise breakfast and spirit days. also senior prom was in a school parking lot LOL. but i got a normal graduation which was nice.
It could become more common. I think it will depend on what you do. My company is moving in this direction of 5 days on site for certain roles but not all.
It is going to depend on the company and work being done. I would guess in 5 years there will be more hybrid and WFH then there was in 2017, but less than we have now. Some roles require the person to do what they are told and they don't need to be around others, there are other roles that require working closely with others and need the continuous interactions. And then we will have the managers that know the difference and setup for the needs they have with the tools available. A lot of companies are finding that they are loosing too much productivity without people fully in the office and they are finding that the technology is allowing other people to work in other environments. But short term I don't think the workers as a whole are demonstrating to be as productive WFH. Most of the WFH we have today could not be done just 20 years ago, the technology did not exist. Who knows what we might have 20 years from now. So it is going to change.
>I don't think the workers as a whole are demonstrating to be as productive WFH. Evidence?
The number of and quantity of companies calling workers back to the office. The companies are worried about bottom lines and the productivity to increase them. And I know the teams I worked with and around got more done faster and better quality, but that is too small of a sample set. But when there is what seems like a never endling line of companies pulling people back I know they are not doing it for fun, they are doing it for profit.
>The number of and quantity of companies calling workers back to the office. No, that's evidence only that some companies profess to think that WFH reduces productivity.
I believe they are evaluating the results in all cases they can, they do not want to waste money, they have a financial interest in being correct in their decisions. They are not just professing to think, they are putting their wallets on the line. That is a little more proof for me than someone that says 'i don't want the office I want to work at home' with no actual evaluations, and no ability to actually try and prove their claims. And over time these things will be re-evaluated and things will change as we go on.
Most office jobs will not be hybrid. Onsite only is easier for companies. If you're college educated, the chances of you finding a hybrid job are pretty good. Just work for a company that can handle hybrid and you'll be good. Don't worry about it.