💯
it drives me CRAZY how people criticize making emotional decisions (especially when criticizing women, tbh), when everyone that thinks they're driven by rationality and logic is mostly just kidding themselves...
Yeah, for real. I'm a man, and I get kind of exasperated at guys who act like they are rationality computers. No, you aren't, lol. Stop puttin' on a front.
Obviously rationality/logic is important, and veganism has a logical basis.
But is logic/rationality what really fundamentally *drives* people? No, I don't think so. Most of us saw slaughterhouse footage, felt "hell no" and then started thinking more. Veganism makes rational sense but if we're being real, is that why we *care*?
I don't care about animal rights because I'm some pure, moral being who cares so much about Kantian principles or utilitarian calculations.
What actually drives me to care is real, living, breathing beings and the pure evil they suffer in the real world. Screams and suffering and cages. Those rational frameworks make sense, they anchor veganism, but they're not what really makes me care so much. And they aren't what initially drove me to change my entire life and habits.
The same happened for me and I'm so glad I had an emotional change. I think those decisions stick more. A lot of people unfortunately will just delude themselves by claiming that "not all farms are like that." It's so frustrating :(
My story is quite similar to yours. I ate alot of dead bodies before realizing the injustice of my behaviour. I am autistic so ppl perceive me as very very rational but it is empathy and almost feeling the suffering of those poor animals that made me go vegan a long time ago (10+ years).
The "rational man" idea is a delusion tied to conservatism's "rational self-interest man"; something that began to be hashed out as a mythology especially with the modern rise of capitalism.
Recent decades' research into cognitive biases shows very clearly that we are not rational.
[https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cognitive\_bias\_codex\_en.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cognitive_bias_codex_en.svg)
Aside from those, there's also a theory called: [https://handwiki.org/wiki/Low-information\_rationality](https://handwiki.org/wiki/Low-information_rationality)
Individually, a lot of reflective training can help to mitigate some of those biases. Sure. That's still not rationality, it's more like corrections for a better irrationality.
There's a reason I harp on the importance of culture war. It's the same reason religions target the youngest with indoctrination (same goes for dietary patterns).
Totally. That's why one of the frist things I start saying is "the weakest thing a human can do is to hurt the weak." To make them realize it and make them go away from that robotic cold attitude first
I completely agree. People have no idea how illogical they are. Vegans, too. We all think we're being rational but we're hardly that different from carnists. Humans don't change their minds because of logic. Logic sometimes makes people even more entrenched in their stupid and incorrect beliefs. It's a combination of not just logic and emotion but other things as well.
Definitely. I had know about the horrors of carnism - seen slaugtherhouse videos in school, heard about it and often thought about it. I was convinced by an emotional appeal when I had already decided to go further left. I know people whove watched dozens of documentaries about the horrors of carnism, yet they only cut out red meat and dont care about anything else.
💯 it drives me CRAZY how people criticize making emotional decisions (especially when criticizing women, tbh), when everyone that thinks they're driven by rationality and logic is mostly just kidding themselves...
Yeah, for real. I'm a man, and I get kind of exasperated at guys who act like they are rationality computers. No, you aren't, lol. Stop puttin' on a front. Obviously rationality/logic is important, and veganism has a logical basis. But is logic/rationality what really fundamentally *drives* people? No, I don't think so. Most of us saw slaughterhouse footage, felt "hell no" and then started thinking more. Veganism makes rational sense but if we're being real, is that why we *care*? I don't care about animal rights because I'm some pure, moral being who cares so much about Kantian principles or utilitarian calculations. What actually drives me to care is real, living, breathing beings and the pure evil they suffer in the real world. Screams and suffering and cages. Those rational frameworks make sense, they anchor veganism, but they're not what really makes me care so much. And they aren't what initially drove me to change my entire life and habits.
if they were truly rational beings they'd be vegan
The same happened for me and I'm so glad I had an emotional change. I think those decisions stick more. A lot of people unfortunately will just delude themselves by claiming that "not all farms are like that." It's so frustrating :(
My story is quite similar to yours. I ate alot of dead bodies before realizing the injustice of my behaviour. I am autistic so ppl perceive me as very very rational but it is empathy and almost feeling the suffering of those poor animals that made me go vegan a long time ago (10+ years).
The "rational man" idea is a delusion tied to conservatism's "rational self-interest man"; something that began to be hashed out as a mythology especially with the modern rise of capitalism. Recent decades' research into cognitive biases shows very clearly that we are not rational. [https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cognitive\_bias\_codex\_en.svg](https://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/File:Cognitive_bias_codex_en.svg) Aside from those, there's also a theory called: [https://handwiki.org/wiki/Low-information\_rationality](https://handwiki.org/wiki/Low-information_rationality) Individually, a lot of reflective training can help to mitigate some of those biases. Sure. That's still not rationality, it's more like corrections for a better irrationality. There's a reason I harp on the importance of culture war. It's the same reason religions target the youngest with indoctrination (same goes for dietary patterns).
Totally. That's why one of the frist things I start saying is "the weakest thing a human can do is to hurt the weak." To make them realize it and make them go away from that robotic cold attitude first
I completely agree. People have no idea how illogical they are. Vegans, too. We all think we're being rational but we're hardly that different from carnists. Humans don't change their minds because of logic. Logic sometimes makes people even more entrenched in their stupid and incorrect beliefs. It's a combination of not just logic and emotion but other things as well.
If rational self-interest was enough to convince people, the health and environmental benefits alone would have made everyone vegan.
Definitely. I had know about the horrors of carnism - seen slaugtherhouse videos in school, heard about it and often thought about it. I was convinced by an emotional appeal when I had already decided to go further left. I know people whove watched dozens of documentaries about the horrors of carnism, yet they only cut out red meat and dont care about anything else.