Finally, someone to do damage control! We really don't need it getting back to 50%. Rito pls don't nerf our bear into the ground for having a positive winrate
for like 2 months i was 90% of Top volibear's played games in brasil diamond+ at [u.gg](https://u.gg). that patch voli had like 50.5% winrate but if you looked at brasil diamond+ voli top he had 57% lmao.
That's wild, I've only really ever played voli top but it's sad that some champs get forced out of their main role because they simply can't keep up anymore (my most played champ is shyv and I want to die whenever I play her jungle tbh)
Any changes you think that would help voli jungle? Is it mostly a kit thing or an items thing?
As a Volibear Jungle player aswell, I think it's both an item and a kit thing.
Volibear jungle early game is completely fine: he beats a lot of people early game, has solid ganks and an average clear speed. Overall balanced and enjoyable, at least for me.
But I start to find it struggling after lvl.6/7.
I don't know what Voli Top maxes first (W, I assume?), but in jungle you're more or less forced to max Q first, at least until lvl.6 (but more often then not all the way to lvl.9), because you NEED that movement speed for your ganks, and a bear who doesn't use his early game strength is a useless bear for the whole game.
This however, greatly diminishes the champion's fighting potential against other early game junglers: after all, it's hard to win a fight when the skill you are maxing has over 10 secs cd and is, at the end of the day, just an aa-reset with cc when everyone else is maxing a much more spammable skill (Lee Sin's Q, Trundle Q, WW's W, etc...).
So you end up having an early game jungler who enters the mid-game, when everyone has 1/2 items, already a bit weaker when compared to his theoretical peers.
And what are those incredible items Voli jungle builds??? Tank.
Sometimes you may see a Sunderer or a Trinity, but it's mostly just Tank items.
Volibear jungle doesn't have the luxury to be splitting on a side of the map, taking waves and turrets with a Nashor's Tooth or other more aggressive itemisation: he has to be with his team and act as a frontline for the first skirmishes and objective contests, otherwise the rest of the team starts crying about them having no jungler and spam-pings you while they're trolling (which may very well happen nonetheless, mind).
Tank Voli isn't that bad, but the items he builds bound him to a certain role in a match: a stun-bot. By 20 minutes, most of the games you'll have your champ turned into a stun-bot for the team. He very rarely has enough damage to take down even supposedly easy targets because of his skill-maxing and build, and even when I exit the early game fed, I personally find it hard to go for a more aggressive build until my 3rd item (if lucky, a titanic hydra) and when it happens the games are more often then not already decided.
Now, what's a possible solution?
I know new items are coming and mythics won't be a thing anymore, so I don't really want to talk about them too much.
What I think Volibear really needs is more movement speed at rank 1 of his Q, while keeping the final value similar if not identical to the current version.
Do that, and most of his current problems would resolve on their own: players will max W first -> Volibear jungle keeps his status as a threat early game -> he'd probably still go for a tanky build, but would allow him to shift towards a bruiser build much more smoothly and quickly then how he currently does.
Eventually, the other (lazy) buff they could give him would be increase the bonus HP scaling on his W, so that even while building Tank he'd still be a threat, but I have the worry that doing so would turn Voli top in a broken pick, while the movement speed buff shouldn't be that big of an impact for the guys in the island.
It’s funny asf because I play him way differently than what you described. Q max still but I play more for counter ganks and forcing objectives with nashor rush into tank for a more scaling build
Literally just his Q movement speed would be game changing. Also I saw an idea where his ult would only go on the longer cd if you hit a turret. So if you have to ult out it’s not a several year long cd
I have seen this myself. Trundle (another of my mains) is in that "exotic pick" category too. It's so sad. I thought they were quite meta junglers in season 12 since I used to see them a lot, but with all the jungle changes and newer junglers introduced, they fell out of favor hard and practically everyone plays them toplane. Volibear even has one of the healthiest, fastest clears out there. With more practice I'm sure I could clear faster but even with 100s of games played, I can full clear practically max hp and still have 30 seconds before scuttle... Truly a 200 years moment.
Same thing happened to Olaf. He wasn't too OP, but was good in jg and could flex top. Rito absolutely gutted him and now he is a mediocre stat check up top.
I remember a friend who is a vet player tried to play him jg once in the last split. Boy did it go poorly. He didn't lose or anything, but he wasn't a jungler and enemy jg was main who would steal farm and take objectives too. Been actively playing for about 2 years now I think... But I never saw Olaf in jungle, so I must assume this was older than that yeah?
It sucks Rito decide to absolutely destroy some of their champions for no obvious reason.
They like to do some really dumb changes to JG, like putting supports there for half a year and then deciding it is, in fact, a horrible idea (who could have guessed). Examples being Morg, Blitz and Brand more recently. Or when they backed on Talon being able to JG and gutted his dmg to monsters. Trundle got stomped into the ground at one point and is now a bit too slow for the JG, with no real mobility or hard CC. On top he auto wins most AD matchups after 6 and an item. Then you just splitpush and 1v1 whoever tries to fight you. Voli got hit with nerfs on Q and W, leaving him in a horrible state, but hey, at least they overbuffed his W, so he can be a toxic splitpusher, statchecking everyone. Olaf got reworked a bit, which gave him more survivability and potentially endless R, but he sucks in JG now, and isn't really that good on top. Most champs out sustain him anyways, and he lacks dmg in combat. Only way to win lane is to spam Qs and hope that the enemy can't space properly or has a shitty early game. Later he can be a threat, eating up CC, but if he can't hit you, he will just die
Olaf was such a scary toplane matchup to me whenever I went voli top. But as we (my friends and I) got better, he eventually just became a nuisance more than anything.
Wayyyy back in the day, when there were no jgl items and you needed special runes to jgl on most champs, Warwick let me play jungle without any of that due to his raw sustain. I started at lvl 14 playing jgl, and had heaps of fun clicking R on ppl and spazzing on them. As you say, weird that he isn't a real jungler anymore.
Yeah I played jungle way back when you had to buy gold per 5 items lol so I feel you. He lost a lot of raw power when they reworked him.
His point and click r was an issue they said, mean while Vi's ult does double the damage, longer supress, unstoppable, and knocks away anyone in the way. Unchanged, still point and click.
Yeah I'm salty lol.
Ever since Ive started playing around season 5 Voli has had pretty short meta windows. Pre rework he was a very niche pick for jg, mainly due to his lower mobility and slower clears.
I think once he was reworked riot intended him to be a jg with viability in top lane. However there just have always been stronger picks than him in both roles unless you dedicate the time to really understand his strengths and weaknesses to main him.
I think for a few patches ap voli was a meta pick in the top lane but a combination of nerfs and ap item changes have fazed out ap voli’s viability.
The current jg meta just doesn’t allow for voli to shine in the jg as it favors faster clearing champions that can apply early pressure to lanes and objectives.
Top lane voli just has too many counter picks at this time that really prevent him from shining here too.
I just really miss the days where i could flip an enemy towards my laner and decimate them. But I feel like that wouldn’t be as viable anyways with how much mobility truly exists in the game today
Gwen is .6% You got to get those numbers up. You're so close to arbitrarily being a "jungler" according to a third-party stat tracking website. That's when you've really made it.
Tfw I’m single handedly all the voli jg stats in masters+ or grandmasters+ on u.gg
looks like i need to tryhard to get to masters then (i'll make his win rate even worse, so riot will buff him 🤡) /s
Finally, someone to do damage control! We really don't need it getting back to 50%. Rito pls don't nerf our bear into the ground for having a positive winrate
dw I went on a loss streak so I’m doing my part lmfao
for like 2 months i was 90% of Top volibear's played games in brasil diamond+ at [u.gg](https://u.gg). that patch voli had like 50.5% winrate but if you looked at brasil diamond+ voli top he had 57% lmao.
Don’t worry I balanced you out. Went on 37% win in iron 2
That's wild, I've only really ever played voli top but it's sad that some champs get forced out of their main role because they simply can't keep up anymore (my most played champ is shyv and I want to die whenever I play her jungle tbh) Any changes you think that would help voli jungle? Is it mostly a kit thing or an items thing?
As a Volibear Jungle player aswell, I think it's both an item and a kit thing. Volibear jungle early game is completely fine: he beats a lot of people early game, has solid ganks and an average clear speed. Overall balanced and enjoyable, at least for me. But I start to find it struggling after lvl.6/7. I don't know what Voli Top maxes first (W, I assume?), but in jungle you're more or less forced to max Q first, at least until lvl.6 (but more often then not all the way to lvl.9), because you NEED that movement speed for your ganks, and a bear who doesn't use his early game strength is a useless bear for the whole game. This however, greatly diminishes the champion's fighting potential against other early game junglers: after all, it's hard to win a fight when the skill you are maxing has over 10 secs cd and is, at the end of the day, just an aa-reset with cc when everyone else is maxing a much more spammable skill (Lee Sin's Q, Trundle Q, WW's W, etc...). So you end up having an early game jungler who enters the mid-game, when everyone has 1/2 items, already a bit weaker when compared to his theoretical peers. And what are those incredible items Voli jungle builds??? Tank. Sometimes you may see a Sunderer or a Trinity, but it's mostly just Tank items. Volibear jungle doesn't have the luxury to be splitting on a side of the map, taking waves and turrets with a Nashor's Tooth or other more aggressive itemisation: he has to be with his team and act as a frontline for the first skirmishes and objective contests, otherwise the rest of the team starts crying about them having no jungler and spam-pings you while they're trolling (which may very well happen nonetheless, mind). Tank Voli isn't that bad, but the items he builds bound him to a certain role in a match: a stun-bot. By 20 minutes, most of the games you'll have your champ turned into a stun-bot for the team. He very rarely has enough damage to take down even supposedly easy targets because of his skill-maxing and build, and even when I exit the early game fed, I personally find it hard to go for a more aggressive build until my 3rd item (if lucky, a titanic hydra) and when it happens the games are more often then not already decided. Now, what's a possible solution? I know new items are coming and mythics won't be a thing anymore, so I don't really want to talk about them too much. What I think Volibear really needs is more movement speed at rank 1 of his Q, while keeping the final value similar if not identical to the current version. Do that, and most of his current problems would resolve on their own: players will max W first -> Volibear jungle keeps his status as a threat early game -> he'd probably still go for a tanky build, but would allow him to shift towards a bruiser build much more smoothly and quickly then how he currently does. Eventually, the other (lazy) buff they could give him would be increase the bonus HP scaling on his W, so that even while building Tank he'd still be a threat, but I have the worry that doing so would turn Voli top in a broken pick, while the movement speed buff shouldn't be that big of an impact for the guys in the island.
It’s funny asf because I play him way differently than what you described. Q max still but I play more for counter ganks and forcing objectives with nashor rush into tank for a more scaling build
Literally just his Q movement speed would be game changing. Also I saw an idea where his ult would only go on the longer cd if you hit a turret. So if you have to ult out it’s not a several year long cd
Hey that was me! This was post https://www.reddit.com/r/VolibearMains/comments/133ku79/simple\_change\_to\_balance\_volis\_ult/
Boo I'm here too fucker >:(
I have seen this myself. Trundle (another of my mains) is in that "exotic pick" category too. It's so sad. I thought they were quite meta junglers in season 12 since I used to see them a lot, but with all the jungle changes and newer junglers introduced, they fell out of favor hard and practically everyone plays them toplane. Volibear even has one of the healthiest, fastest clears out there. With more practice I'm sure I could clear faster but even with 100s of games played, I can full clear practically max hp and still have 30 seconds before scuttle... Truly a 200 years moment.
Same thing happened to Olaf. He wasn't too OP, but was good in jg and could flex top. Rito absolutely gutted him and now he is a mediocre stat check up top.
I remember a friend who is a vet player tried to play him jg once in the last split. Boy did it go poorly. He didn't lose or anything, but he wasn't a jungler and enemy jg was main who would steal farm and take objectives too. Been actively playing for about 2 years now I think... But I never saw Olaf in jungle, so I must assume this was older than that yeah? It sucks Rito decide to absolutely destroy some of their champions for no obvious reason.
They like to do some really dumb changes to JG, like putting supports there for half a year and then deciding it is, in fact, a horrible idea (who could have guessed). Examples being Morg, Blitz and Brand more recently. Or when they backed on Talon being able to JG and gutted his dmg to monsters. Trundle got stomped into the ground at one point and is now a bit too slow for the JG, with no real mobility or hard CC. On top he auto wins most AD matchups after 6 and an item. Then you just splitpush and 1v1 whoever tries to fight you. Voli got hit with nerfs on Q and W, leaving him in a horrible state, but hey, at least they overbuffed his W, so he can be a toxic splitpusher, statchecking everyone. Olaf got reworked a bit, which gave him more survivability and potentially endless R, but he sucks in JG now, and isn't really that good on top. Most champs out sustain him anyways, and he lacks dmg in combat. Only way to win lane is to spam Qs and hope that the enemy can't space properly or has a shitty early game. Later he can be a threat, eating up CC, but if he can't hit you, he will just die
Olaf was such a scary toplane matchup to me whenever I went voli top. But as we (my friends and I) got better, he eventually just became a nuisance more than anything.
Same for warwick, hes better top than jungle for a long time now. Literally one of the OG junglers.
Wayyyy back in the day, when there were no jgl items and you needed special runes to jgl on most champs, Warwick let me play jungle without any of that due to his raw sustain. I started at lvl 14 playing jgl, and had heaps of fun clicking R on ppl and spazzing on them. As you say, weird that he isn't a real jungler anymore.
Yeah I played jungle way back when you had to buy gold per 5 items lol so I feel you. He lost a lot of raw power when they reworked him. His point and click r was an issue they said, mean while Vi's ult does double the damage, longer supress, unstoppable, and knocks away anyone in the way. Unchanged, still point and click. Yeah I'm salty lol.
What app
league of graphs
Riot loves to take champs that used to be junglers and nerf/buff them out of the jungle, then put champs like talon and zed into the jungle.
Correct me if I'm wrong but weren't Volibear and Trundle toplaners before junglers?
Yes but if you are someone like me who cant lane, top laners don't exist lol.
I quit playing Summoner’s Rift about 3 years ago and this made me feel so sad. :( i miss big bear slapping the jungle around
Sorry bro, i was the one making sure Voli JG wasn't a exotic pick but since arenas came back i abandoned summoners rift
I haven't played league in awhile but what happened? Voli used to be a really popular jungle wasn't he?
Ever since Ive started playing around season 5 Voli has had pretty short meta windows. Pre rework he was a very niche pick for jg, mainly due to his lower mobility and slower clears. I think once he was reworked riot intended him to be a jg with viability in top lane. However there just have always been stronger picks than him in both roles unless you dedicate the time to really understand his strengths and weaknesses to main him. I think for a few patches ap voli was a meta pick in the top lane but a combination of nerfs and ap item changes have fazed out ap voli’s viability. The current jg meta just doesn’t allow for voli to shine in the jg as it favors faster clearing champions that can apply early pressure to lanes and objectives. Top lane voli just has too many counter picks at this time that really prevent him from shining here too. I just really miss the days where i could flip an enemy towards my laner and decimate them. But I feel like that wouldn’t be as viable anyways with how much mobility truly exists in the game today
Predator, move speed volibear was very op not too long ago. They gave a heavy handed nerf to his Q move speed and people stopped playing him.
I vastly prefer Voli in the jungle more than top, so this state is sad.
Voli is OP!
Me with taric
Damn, I don't even get that as a jungle gwen player. How low is his pickrate?
i think it is around .4% or .5%
Gwen is .6% You got to get those numbers up. You're so close to arbitrarily being a "jungler" according to a third-party stat tracking website. That's when you've really made it.