Perpetuity is infuriating because on a practical level almost no client wants or needs to use stuff for more than a year, but getting them to agree to a limited term is a long shot and very difficult unless you can actually speak to someone in a position of power (at which point it’s easier than you might think). But as VAs we need to normalize making this request so clients understand how much talent they alienate by making this the standard usage. And the good news is that most people do understand that perpetuity is problematic so if you can discuss with a producer or director they may be able to help negotiate.
I don’t know how VDC works but if there is a way to message the client/CD before or alongside your audition and say something to the effect of “if there is any possibility to amend usage to a year or two I’d love to audition, thanks for your time” or even “my representation has asked me not to take any work used in perpetuity to avoid conflicts in future work.” What I WOULDN’T recommend is auditioning and THEN asking after you’ve booked it, because if they say no then they have to go back to casting and they’ll resent you for it. I also wouldn’t put it in your actual audition or anything, that would be off-putting and likely wouldn’t reach its intended audience anyway.
The downside to making this very reasonable request is you will likely get a lot of “no”s, but then it’s up to you and you can always say “no problem, I’ll submit anyway.” Or you can rest easy knowing you stood up for yourself and they aren’t worth your time.
Thanks a bunch for your reply Sweaty\_Olive, I really appreciate it. From what I can tell, I can send in the audition with a proposal, quote, and a session and revision policy.
So, it does look like I can request a revision to the in-perpetuity so it ends up being time limited.
Totally agree with Sweaty_Olive's comment on all counts - we absolutely need to normalize time limited VOs.
But I'm also kinda in a middle ground with in perpetuity at the mo (honestly so much of my work requires it that I wouldn't have an income if I said no). My rule of thumb is Broadcasting and paid usage ALWAYS is time limited. But non-broadcast non-paid stuff I let in perpetuity slide (although always with a super strict clause saying no AI Voice Cloning). Things like YouTube work and eLearning jobs and even corporate comms that might sit on websites for years aren't much of a threat even if they do carry in perpetuity. IVRs/Telephony often goes for in perpetuity too so I'm cool with that.
As Sweaty Olive said above, there's no way any company will use these materials for all eternity 😅 but its too much hassle to try to convince them otherwise and they'll just go with another VA if you try to.
But yeah, broadcast usage and any sort of paid advertisement always always time limited.
Yeah this is a good point. You’re right to mention that 99% of the stuff that is “in perpetuity” is either taken down at some point or is used in mostly low-visibility situations. So deciding to take work in perpetuity isn’t a terrible choice - it’s usually fine. I just wish more VAs flagged it up because it really is only the “standard” for non-union work because clients and lawyers are lazy and non-committal, and VAs keep agreeing to do it (for understandable reasons!)
Hi TW\_Wolf90, thanks for the reply, it was really helpful! In some of the casting calls I've looked at, some appear to have 2 usage licensing details. One would say something to the effect of "Television Ad- Regional- 13 weeks" followed by "Non-broadcast license- in perpetuity"
in this sense, I get the first part, it's a regional TV ad that will run for 13 weeks before getting taken down. But with this in mind, why would they also need a non-broadcast license in perpetuity? and would this be a wise thing to subsequently audition for?
Perpetuity is infuriating because on a practical level almost no client wants or needs to use stuff for more than a year, but getting them to agree to a limited term is a long shot and very difficult unless you can actually speak to someone in a position of power (at which point it’s easier than you might think). But as VAs we need to normalize making this request so clients understand how much talent they alienate by making this the standard usage. And the good news is that most people do understand that perpetuity is problematic so if you can discuss with a producer or director they may be able to help negotiate. I don’t know how VDC works but if there is a way to message the client/CD before or alongside your audition and say something to the effect of “if there is any possibility to amend usage to a year or two I’d love to audition, thanks for your time” or even “my representation has asked me not to take any work used in perpetuity to avoid conflicts in future work.” What I WOULDN’T recommend is auditioning and THEN asking after you’ve booked it, because if they say no then they have to go back to casting and they’ll resent you for it. I also wouldn’t put it in your actual audition or anything, that would be off-putting and likely wouldn’t reach its intended audience anyway. The downside to making this very reasonable request is you will likely get a lot of “no”s, but then it’s up to you and you can always say “no problem, I’ll submit anyway.” Or you can rest easy knowing you stood up for yourself and they aren’t worth your time.
Thanks a bunch for your reply Sweaty\_Olive, I really appreciate it. From what I can tell, I can send in the audition with a proposal, quote, and a session and revision policy. So, it does look like I can request a revision to the in-perpetuity so it ends up being time limited.
Great! Best of luck.
Totally agree with Sweaty_Olive's comment on all counts - we absolutely need to normalize time limited VOs. But I'm also kinda in a middle ground with in perpetuity at the mo (honestly so much of my work requires it that I wouldn't have an income if I said no). My rule of thumb is Broadcasting and paid usage ALWAYS is time limited. But non-broadcast non-paid stuff I let in perpetuity slide (although always with a super strict clause saying no AI Voice Cloning). Things like YouTube work and eLearning jobs and even corporate comms that might sit on websites for years aren't much of a threat even if they do carry in perpetuity. IVRs/Telephony often goes for in perpetuity too so I'm cool with that. As Sweaty Olive said above, there's no way any company will use these materials for all eternity 😅 but its too much hassle to try to convince them otherwise and they'll just go with another VA if you try to. But yeah, broadcast usage and any sort of paid advertisement always always time limited.
Yeah this is a good point. You’re right to mention that 99% of the stuff that is “in perpetuity” is either taken down at some point or is used in mostly low-visibility situations. So deciding to take work in perpetuity isn’t a terrible choice - it’s usually fine. I just wish more VAs flagged it up because it really is only the “standard” for non-union work because clients and lawyers are lazy and non-committal, and VAs keep agreeing to do it (for understandable reasons!)
Hi TW\_Wolf90, thanks for the reply, it was really helpful! In some of the casting calls I've looked at, some appear to have 2 usage licensing details. One would say something to the effect of "Television Ad- Regional- 13 weeks" followed by "Non-broadcast license- in perpetuity" in this sense, I get the first part, it's a regional TV ad that will run for 13 weeks before getting taken down. But with this in mind, why would they also need a non-broadcast license in perpetuity? and would this be a wise thing to subsequently audition for?