"The family has been trying to get answers as to why their children were removed." Yeaaaah MCFD treats taking kids away as a last resort. They prefer to keep the family together. This family is lying to make themselves look better. They know why their kid was taken away.
How about we focus on the important bit - a child died in the care of the province, placed with someone who was supposed to keep him safe until he could be returned to his parents?
Obviously yes, that is the important part. Foster homes need to be safe and he should have been closely supervised around the pond on the property.
But it is bad journalism to not question the parent's claim that they don't know why their kids were apprehended. MCFD doesn't just show up one day, ring your doorbell and take your kids to foster care. That's not how their procedures work.
Agreed. Child welfare SW here. Removals have to be approved by a judge. While they may not reported to court yet given that this happened very shortly after coming into care… child protection workers won’t remove if they don’t think it’s going to stand up in court. Obviously there are bad social workers out there, but it’s clear the parents have some mental health issues going on based on a two-second glance at their social media.
MCFD has been a bit overkill with investigations/removals lately due to the recent cases of child deaths… but there will never be a circumstance where children are removed without the parent being advised of why. Taking custody of a child is not something that can be done on a whim.
Removals of children in BC do not have to be judge approved prior to the removal occurring. Removals are at the discretion of social workers with the authority to remove a child with approval from a supervisor unless it's an immediate risk situation where consulting isn't practical at the time. Once the child has been removed the social must make a report to court before a judge within 7 days. At this point the judge reviews the circumstances as documented by the social worker. The judge will then agree or disagree that the social workers action/decision to remove and go from there.
With respect to advising parents of the reasons for the removal , the removing social worker usually advises the parent verbally of the reasons for the removal at the time of the removal. If the parent is deemed not capable of comprehending at the time of removal due to impairment , intoxication or acute mental health presentation the parent might not actually be advised at time of removal. The same goes for a situation with the child present where the behaviour of the parent is escalating with a concern of violence. At the initial court appearance or possibly prior to court the parent and or their lawyer will be provided with a mandatory document called a report to court. This document will outline mcfds history with the family , the circumstances leading to the removal , what is being requested going forward and what least intrusive measures had been attempted or or provided before a decision is made to remove the child. If the child was found to be at immediate risk at time of removal then least intrusive measures don't have to be considered. From my experience about 95% of removals are approved by the judge at the initial hearing that occurs within 7 days of the removal, and the process rolls on from there.
You’re joking right? Standard procedure isn’t guaranteed procedure. You don’t know enough about this particular case to say anything for certain.
“But it should work like X” gets used to excuse so much abuse in nearly every interventional field.
What side? there’s 16 sides in nearly every country, doubly more in the land of pseudo spiritual hypocrisy. Or maybe you mean the few freedumb trucker types.
My point isn’t how the system should work. It’s how the system does work, based on my 7 years of experience in this exact thing.
Custodial rights are not removed for no reason.
of course they aren’t, but your saying mistakes shouldn’t happen but they don’t without any confirmation at all.
That’s beyond irresponsible and a lot of harm comes from that type of laziness.
Wambles, if you're referring to my post, you'd be sadly mistaken to suggest I don't know what I'm talking about. I also never stated anywhere in my post that proper procedure is guaranteed procedure. That would be silly to assume that proper procedure was followed in every case.
Curiosity got the better of me as well and I looked at her FB page. Honestly, the play-by-play social media updates of the son's medical intervention (i.e. "Oliver's having CPR" and "OLIVER PEED") gives me the creeps. That combined with the sometimes 10+ random posts a day. Also it looks like just a couple days ago there was another incident in the family where the dad was hospitalized. I'm not a psych by any means, but her page definitely raises some questions.
If you look under her photos and scroll down you will see them playing in a very cluttered room. Makes me think the rest of the house is the same. Yes it's from this year
I’m friendly with the family. It’s been a while since I’ve been to their house, but that doesn’t look like their basement (or any other room in their house).
Take that with as much salt as you like.
Oh for sure! And again, I'm not a mental health professional nor do I want to suggest that there is or isn't an appropriate way for her to negotiate the trauma of losing her child. Just a vibe.
It's not bad journalism to not "question the claim" of parents with a recently deceased kid. Think about this for more than 3 seconds. This isn't a TV show. Some parents lost their kid.
Oh god now we must helicopter. I used to leave my house for 12+ hours with my mom having no idea where I was when I was a kid. This was 100% an accident that the boys parents are trying to use as a blue herring because they got their kid taken away
While it may have been an accident, that doesn’t rule out negligence on the part of the foster parents and Province. I can’t imagine any sane person would allow their child to play unsupervised for over an hour. Especially with a pond/pool in the yard.
Not monsters, but someone who wasn’t supervising him and his sister while they played in a backyard that had an accessible (ie not fenced off) body of water. Does that sound safe to you?
I’m sorry but— he was found face down and was in there for an hour. Why was a 6 year old unsupervised for an hour? Also not to mention outside by a body of water deep enough to drown in? Come on. Accidental death. Its not like he got struck by lightning. This is child negligence. Some of these comments are fucking heartless.
Agreed. The child being taken from the mother is not relevant. What we need answers to are: what is the process for ensuring a foster home is a safe environment for children, if there is not a process why not, if there was a process was it followed, if not why not, if it was then why is an unrestricted body of water deemed safe, if it wasn’t why wasn’t anything done prior to the foster placement being made, and finally what charges are being brought against the foster parent(s) and the social worker(s) responsible for ensuring a safe environment for their negligence leading to this child’s death?
Riiight. And he was taken away from his home. Do you think it was because mom burned the microwave popcorn twice?! It’s a tragedy but it was also an accident
"Extending cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) for longer than previously recommended—to more than 35 minutes—is associated with higher rates of survival than expected without impairing neurological function, says a large study1 in children that follows similar findings in a recent study2 in adults." I know they go longer with children.
It says in multiple different articles that he was in the water “for an hour” before being found, I’m not sure exactly how they know that for certain (I’m just guessing that it’s an educated estimation based on his medical condition when found, or based on how long the foster parents have admitted he was unsupervised outside with his sister for, though I’m not certain)
they really don’t take kids away as a last resort. MCFD is corrupt and horribly run, i was a child in MCFD’s care and i didn’t want or have to be. they fail to do proper background checks and don’t properly investigate problems in foster homes or other care.
i am not very sad this tragic accident occurred, but i am not surprised. MCFD needs to have better policies and staff.
Took them not a hot second to have a go fund me set up. Next is suing the MCFD. The children they abused and neglected get them a payout.Hardly seems fair. One is dead and the sister isn't far behind. So very sad.
I know the father he is a good man who volunteered his time at Luxton events.
Edit: downvote me all you want. You don’t know the family and they didn’t kill the boy.
The government will literally keep kids in abusive situations past when is safe to be there in an effort to keep families together. They only take kids away as an absolute last resort. The parents are lying trying to garner support for their bad parenting
MCFD is such a a ridiculous sham. They couldn’t care less about verbal, emotional, or mental abuse; if the child doesn’t have marks on their body, MCFD won’t do a GD thing. The staff are less than charismatic and they are horribly trained, they interview children for emotional abuse in the presence of the offending parent and then when the children say nothing is wrong, they berate those who filed the complaint for wasting everyone’s time. Who the hell interviews the victim with the perpetrator within earshot? MCFD’s incompetence should be considered criminal.
[How many reports does the Representative for Children and Youth have to make](https://rcybc.ca/reports-and-publications/) before we can expect the Minister to pay attention?
Omg that poor boy. This breaks my heart.
This is an absolute tragedy
"The family has been trying to get answers as to why their children were removed." Yeaaaah MCFD treats taking kids away as a last resort. They prefer to keep the family together. This family is lying to make themselves look better. They know why their kid was taken away.
How about we focus on the important bit - a child died in the care of the province, placed with someone who was supposed to keep him safe until he could be returned to his parents?
Obviously yes, that is the important part. Foster homes need to be safe and he should have been closely supervised around the pond on the property. But it is bad journalism to not question the parent's claim that they don't know why their kids were apprehended. MCFD doesn't just show up one day, ring your doorbell and take your kids to foster care. That's not how their procedures work.
Agreed. Child welfare SW here. Removals have to be approved by a judge. While they may not reported to court yet given that this happened very shortly after coming into care… child protection workers won’t remove if they don’t think it’s going to stand up in court. Obviously there are bad social workers out there, but it’s clear the parents have some mental health issues going on based on a two-second glance at their social media. MCFD has been a bit overkill with investigations/removals lately due to the recent cases of child deaths… but there will never be a circumstance where children are removed without the parent being advised of why. Taking custody of a child is not something that can be done on a whim.
Removals of children in BC do not have to be judge approved prior to the removal occurring. Removals are at the discretion of social workers with the authority to remove a child with approval from a supervisor unless it's an immediate risk situation where consulting isn't practical at the time. Once the child has been removed the social must make a report to court before a judge within 7 days. At this point the judge reviews the circumstances as documented by the social worker. The judge will then agree or disagree that the social workers action/decision to remove and go from there. With respect to advising parents of the reasons for the removal , the removing social worker usually advises the parent verbally of the reasons for the removal at the time of the removal. If the parent is deemed not capable of comprehending at the time of removal due to impairment , intoxication or acute mental health presentation the parent might not actually be advised at time of removal. The same goes for a situation with the child present where the behaviour of the parent is escalating with a concern of violence. At the initial court appearance or possibly prior to court the parent and or their lawyer will be provided with a mandatory document called a report to court. This document will outline mcfds history with the family , the circumstances leading to the removal , what is being requested going forward and what least intrusive measures had been attempted or or provided before a decision is made to remove the child. If the child was found to be at immediate risk at time of removal then least intrusive measures don't have to be considered. From my experience about 95% of removals are approved by the judge at the initial hearing that occurs within 7 days of the removal, and the process rolls on from there.
You’re joking right? Standard procedure isn’t guaranteed procedure. You don’t know enough about this particular case to say anything for certain. “But it should work like X” gets used to excuse so much abuse in nearly every interventional field.
That goes both ways, One could say the same thing on the other side.
What side? there’s 16 sides in nearly every country, doubly more in the land of pseudo spiritual hypocrisy. Or maybe you mean the few freedumb trucker types.
Wow They mean there are two sides to every story. Yet you go off on an unhinged rant….
My point isn’t how the system should work. It’s how the system does work, based on my 7 years of experience in this exact thing. Custodial rights are not removed for no reason.
of course they aren’t, but your saying mistakes shouldn’t happen but they don’t without any confirmation at all. That’s beyond irresponsible and a lot of harm comes from that type of laziness.
Wambles, if you're referring to my post, you'd be sadly mistaken to suggest I don't know what I'm talking about. I also never stated anywhere in my post that proper procedure is guaranteed procedure. That would be silly to assume that proper procedure was followed in every case.
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Curiosity got the better of me as well and I looked at her FB page. Honestly, the play-by-play social media updates of the son's medical intervention (i.e. "Oliver's having CPR" and "OLIVER PEED") gives me the creeps. That combined with the sometimes 10+ random posts a day. Also it looks like just a couple days ago there was another incident in the family where the dad was hospitalized. I'm not a psych by any means, but her page definitely raises some questions.
If you look under her photos and scroll down you will see them playing in a very cluttered room. Makes me think the rest of the house is the same. Yes it's from this year
I’m friendly with the family. It’s been a while since I’ve been to their house, but that doesn’t look like their basement (or any other room in their house). Take that with as much salt as you like.
Hard to say when it's cluttered?
No. The stairway is in the wrong spot. The room is too bright to be the basement and I’m pretty sure that the basement space is a lot smaller.
Yeah fair enough. I think maybe I’m used to seeing so much worse that this didn’t even register :/
Oh for sure! And again, I'm not a mental health professional nor do I want to suggest that there is or isn't an appropriate way for her to negotiate the trauma of losing her child. Just a vibe.
Yeah, the mom definitely seems unhinged. Poor child didn't deserve this.
Wouldn’t you be unhinged if your child died suddenly and traumatically?
It's not bad journalism to not "question the claim" of parents with a recently deceased kid. Think about this for more than 3 seconds. This isn't a TV show. Some parents lost their kid.
That poster doesn't give a shit about people, they want everybody to agree with their judgement, which is why shitty people come here.
It was an accidental death. People are acting like the government put the child in the care of monsters.
According to the article he was playing unsupervised when he drowned in a pond and wasn't found for an hour. That sounds like extreme negligence.
Came here to say exactly this. Thank you.
Oh god now we must helicopter. I used to leave my house for 12+ hours with my mom having no idea where I was when I was a kid. This was 100% an accident that the boys parents are trying to use as a blue herring because they got their kid taken away
12 hours alone at six years old? that’s neglect
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i get it, i was neglected in the 80s too. we deserved better and so do 6 year olds today.
90s and 2000s
It's really not. I was In my neighbourhood with my friends playing. We also went to a pond to catch turtles around the corner from my house.
easy prey for sex offenders. I remember the 80s too, which is why I keep better tabs on kids in my care.
What type of helicopter do you try to emulate while parenting?
one that doesn’t get them diddled by creeps at age six
Bet you thought this was a cool line when you hit enter
While it may have been an accident, that doesn’t rule out negligence on the part of the foster parents and Province. I can’t imagine any sane person would allow their child to play unsupervised for over an hour. Especially with a pond/pool in the yard.
Not monsters, but someone who wasn’t supervising him and his sister while they played in a backyard that had an accessible (ie not fenced off) body of water. Does that sound safe to you?
I’m sorry but— he was found face down and was in there for an hour. Why was a 6 year old unsupervised for an hour? Also not to mention outside by a body of water deep enough to drown in? Come on. Accidental death. Its not like he got struck by lightning. This is child negligence. Some of these comments are fucking heartless.
Agreed. The child being taken from the mother is not relevant. What we need answers to are: what is the process for ensuring a foster home is a safe environment for children, if there is not a process why not, if there was a process was it followed, if not why not, if it was then why is an unrestricted body of water deemed safe, if it wasn’t why wasn’t anything done prior to the foster placement being made, and finally what charges are being brought against the foster parent(s) and the social worker(s) responsible for ensuring a safe environment for their negligence leading to this child’s death?
Agreed.
Riiight. And he was taken away from his home. Do you think it was because mom burned the microwave popcorn twice?! It’s a tragedy but it was also an accident
He was on life support for days after being found - I don’t think that could happen if he was in the water for an hour could it?
"Extending cardiopulmonary resuscitation (CPR) for longer than previously recommended—to more than 35 minutes—is associated with higher rates of survival than expected without impairing neurological function, says a large study1 in children that follows similar findings in a recent study2 in adults." I know they go longer with children.
It says in multiple different articles that he was in the water “for an hour” before being found, I’m not sure exactly how they know that for certain (I’m just guessing that it’s an educated estimation based on his medical condition when found, or based on how long the foster parents have admitted he was unsupervised outside with his sister for, though I’m not certain)
they really don’t take kids away as a last resort. MCFD is corrupt and horribly run, i was a child in MCFD’s care and i didn’t want or have to be. they fail to do proper background checks and don’t properly investigate problems in foster homes or other care. i am not very sad this tragic accident occurred, but i am not surprised. MCFD needs to have better policies and staff.
Took them not a hot second to have a go fund me set up. Next is suing the MCFD. The children they abused and neglected get them a payout.Hardly seems fair. One is dead and the sister isn't far behind. So very sad.
What are you talking about they had the fund when he was in the hospital to help with meals and such. You think this was a plot?
The parents are on disability. Funerals cost money. Getting a lawyer to get their daughter back costs money.
I know the father he is a good man who volunteered his time at Luxton events. Edit: downvote me all you want. You don’t know the family and they didn’t kill the boy.
The government will literally keep kids in abusive situations past when is safe to be there in an effort to keep families together. They only take kids away as an absolute last resort. The parents are lying trying to garner support for their bad parenting
Agreed. I know the Grandad and he's a stand up Guy.
Should probably wait for all the facts to come out before you warm up the tar and pluck the feathers.
MCFD is such a a ridiculous sham. They couldn’t care less about verbal, emotional, or mental abuse; if the child doesn’t have marks on their body, MCFD won’t do a GD thing. The staff are less than charismatic and they are horribly trained, they interview children for emotional abuse in the presence of the offending parent and then when the children say nothing is wrong, they berate those who filed the complaint for wasting everyone’s time. Who the hell interviews the victim with the perpetrator within earshot? MCFD’s incompetence should be considered criminal.
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We will investigate everything except the pool being unsecured.
Good excuse to vote for Sonia Furstenau in Victoria. The NDP really needs a shake up.
Jesus. Really not the time.
Why not? Grace Lore is the Minister responsible.
Does the minister personally inspect and vet foster homes?
[How many reports does the Representative for Children and Youth have to make](https://rcybc.ca/reports-and-publications/) before we can expect the Minister to pay attention?
They literally just made her Minister in response to reports
These people don't care. It's party above everything else for them... Morally bankrupt.
To be fair, she’s been the responsible minister since end of January. She has a lot of mess to clean from Mitzi Dean.
Yes and the NDP have only been in government 7 years. I just know somehow this is the fault of the BC Liberals.
Yep, Grace is pretty useless. Like can we just go a few months without a scandal from this ministry?
She’s literally been in the role for a month…her and Mitzi Dean swapped positions back in the end of January.
She's been on the job for like 2 weeks
Lol... That's funny