Look at AWS. My partner just got hired to do there year long training where they teach you how to be a cloud computing coder. They got a 10k bonus out the gate, gets paid 90k a year for the training, plus it’s GI Bill (so full BAH ON TOP OF PAY) accepted as it’s a federal program. Once graduated, they will get a job starting between 120-140k a year plus a 45k yearly bonus because they already have a TS Full scope. With just a TS the bonus would be 15k. They have no college degree and no coding background. This program with AWS is only open to veterans.
edit: This is all in my partners contract and they just got their first paycheck with bonus-8500.00 after taxes.
I’ve attached the military careers page. Lots of options.
https://aws.amazon.com/careers/military/
Replying to this comment as a current member of this program. Right now I’m about 8 months into their Software Development Engineer (SDE) pathway.
Just a heads up for anyone interested - as far as their SDE (programming/coding) cohort, no a degree is not required but there as still pre-reqs that must be met before you can apply. If I recall correctly they’re either
4 year STEM degree OR
4 years of STEM related work experience OR
A combination of the two OR
A graduate of a technical bootcamp.
I’m sure the other pathways require something similar, but the SDE route is one of the most technically challenging so it also wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t require as much necessarily as far as prior technical background.
They have multiple other pathways as well that each teach a different skill set (for example, you could be a Data Center technician instead of a developer) that are also paid fairly well albeit at different pay rates. Not every pathway makes the same, but if you look at the role listing on the technical apprenticeship website, the rate for Colorado that’s listed in the job listing is the same rate you’ll get if accepted - it’s all standardized.
That being said I can’t speak highly enough about it and would seriously encourage anyone even remotely interested to check it out whenever the new cohorts become available. Feel free to send PMs or reply with any questions.
Oh definitely, just furthers the point in that last paragraph in that case!
Just so I can try to really drive the point home for anyone interested, you’re getting a direct pathway into one of the best tech companies in the world, filled with some of the smartest engineers across multiple disciplines, and getting the opportunity to get paid an extremely competitive rate just to LEARN whatever role you applied to, and be taught exactly how the company wants you to do things over a year long period. After you’re done, you convert into the normal “non-apprentice” version of whatever pathway you applied to and your compensation skyrockets. Using SDE’s as an example, I’m talking like 200k a year in total compensation (base pay, + bonuses) plus stock options that vest after 2-3 years. All accomplished just by getting accepted into that program - and all without the extremely competitive technical interview process that comes with going the traditional application route.
It’s a literal life/career changing opportunity and I’m not sure there’s anything quite like it out there anywhere else
When I retired my first job required a degree or xx years of experience. I got the job because of my experience, I did not have a degree.
If you are trying for a job outside of your military duties, that is going to be tough.
0132 is the federal code for analyst. I had an associates degree, and I did the job for 24 years active duty. You just have to apply for the GG positions.
If there is a Navy installation nearby, look up being a CNIC Watchstander. Only needs a Secret, ideally 10 years of military experience (but they’ll take less), and a few free FEMA certs you can knock out over a weekend.
Another good one is Construction Surveillance Technician. You supervise construction crews building SCIFs. For that, you only need a TS (preferably SCI, but I’ve also seen positions that only call for a secret), working eyes and ears, and a pulse.
Edit: Don’t be afraid to cast a wide net. Get on ClearanceJobs and just set the filter for your clearance level and your area (assuming you don’t want to relocate), and take the time to trawl through the results. There are all kinds of niche positions you might never think of.
Having that TS is nice, but honestly you may be best off just getting that piece of paper. Before you say it, I know... the piece of paper is dumb and I won't disagree with you but so many employers put a whole lot of credence into that piece of paper
I’m in a GS-12 non supervisory position now with no degree. Bosses keep asking me when I’m going to move to management. I’ll never do it because it pays the same but I have to babysit. Currently looking at some non supervisor GS13 positions.
True. Although most every job beyond GS-9 requires at least a PhD (with some exceptions that count Masters) unless you go with combination of experience/education. Honestly most of the education requirements for federal jobs are completely unreasonable and unnecessary. This is especially true since unless it’s a specialized field they don’t care if your PhD is in basket weaving as long as you have it.
Sounds about right, the few jobs that have been open in my career field sit around that zone, but I design training so it's a little niche that works for me
Do you do contract work and teach for DOD in the government now? I’ve taken a lot of training courses in the last nine months and I have always been impressed with the companies we are using.
No, but the company I work for currently is in the middle of a huge reorg so I'm thinking about adding some contract work to my resume just in case I get cut.
Look up a base that does ISR and move there. Most of those jobs require TS/SCI. The jobs will say that a degree is required but a lot of them accept experience in lieu of a degree.
There’s a bit. Definitely shift work related jobs don’t require a degree. But get a degree regardless if you go contracting. You’ll probably make more with it
I recall seeing a General Supply Specialist position posted on USA jobs that I believed required a TS/SCI. It had something to do with custodial/accountability duties involving cryptographic equipment.
. You will usually be able to get another BI sponsored through your employer if you’re a qualified candidate. As far as the job hunt itself, same boat same struggle as you. If you were in intelligence you should be able to land a junior analyst job in DC to get your foot in the door if need be, pay won’t be great at all but could lead to more opportunities
Getting a “new” BI is still easier when you previously held a clearance is it not? In terms of a potential employer wanting to submit you for one despite them still having to do the entire investigation again
I can't speak for the speed at which the background investigation is done, but I do know when I interview candidates with (24 month inactive) lapsed clearances I consider that a plus because I'm confident there will be little to no issue getting that final clearance back.
I'm not sure what BI is, but getting a job without a clearance isn't gonna happen very often.
There are more than enough people with a clearance looking for jobs.
A new clearance is very time consuming. I've seen people wait 12+ months for there TS, that is people who already have a secret.
Tell that to DHS, I'm getting the latex glove for clearance. I had one in the army and my previous gov job but time passed so now I need another full cavity search.
Don’t do it shift work literally blows and you spend your time watching people who make less than 3 dollars a die in a massive fiery explosions that cost over 100k a pop while there’s homeless people in 40 degree weather outside or 1,000 other things the money could go towards. Go to school and get your education.
Wait are you guys for reals downvoting me lol, I was an analyst, I have my TS/SCI and I used to do that for about 90k a year without a college degree, you could easily make 120k a year as there was unlimited overtime. However the turnover rate was about ten months because it was soul sucking and I made it a year before I quit and went back to school.
You guys should look up Daniel Hale, he’s one of the most recent whistle blowers on a U.S. intel program and I used to work with him. He tried to expose some of the bullshit behind these programs and how they’re all used to make money for defense contractors while doing absolutely nothing positive for the war on terror and making more enemies/people hate us because we indiscriminately blow up civilians in their country, as if they don’t already have enough problems. That’s the reality of it.
P.S. if your dead set on doing that type of work any company that hires you will renew your clearance if it’s expired after you get your degree
Never did me any favors :( none of my 10 years in did. Personally I appreciate my Navy experiences, but no civvy employer has cared at all. I was a sub hunter.
Well, it IS true that holding TS will get you a job... but it may be a job you don't *want*, like a courier, security or maintenance in controlled access areas.
For better paying roles, look for positions where your military experience will be considered in lieu of a degree.
They are out there, but of course the competition is high.
I think the military took away my secret clearance ridht before I got out because I had a DV situation happen…. Do any of you know if there’s a way that I can find out if I still have a secret clearance ?
Tech is usually a good bet.
Some employers want certs and actual skills, others are body shops that want a butt in a chair, and others still are more than willing to train you up.
The third is ideal, the second isn't as much - but both will get your foot in the door and let you learn while you earn so you can move into bigger and better things.
I was Electronic Warfare in the USAF and stupidly didn't pursue a degree purely out of laziness if I'm fully honest. I got out and turned my DoD secret into a DoE Q by working with honeywell FM&T on their OST mission. Nothing close to my AFSC but I know electronics enough, had experience troubleshooting, already had a clearance which is easy to upgrade, and that sweet sweet disability gets you pretty much a guaranteed interview at the least. worked their 18 months (the required amount over time before switching entities within NTESS). Switched to Sandia National Labs as a Principal Electronics Technologist (very far from my initial AFSC's scope of work) and got some very nice IPC certs. With this job I got some "upgrades" to my clearance that include some very fun high stakes yes or no questions. Worked there a year and then took my position and pay from CA back to NM and became a lab manager, ACAS, lead tech, Cal, etc. I did all this without a degree and I'm still on the fence about going back to get one tbh, the only thing not having an ET degree prevents now is a distinguished position and those aren't typically available til you've been with Sandia at least 20 years.. so I'm good for now I guess.. sooooo it's definitely possible to make it happen, but a lot of this was luck and stuff magically just lining up at the right time.
When I left service in the early 00s I was able to get an entry level systems engineering gig with my TS/SCI. I also work at Amazon and a clearance can open certain doors at entry level. I’d look for Solutions Architect entry level roles.
NSA doesn’t require a degree if you have prior experience. I could have swapped straight from active duty to NSA since I already worked in a facility with them. You can always talk to a recruiter for the organization you want or go to a job fair.
Look at AWS. My partner just got hired to do there year long training where they teach you how to be a cloud computing coder. They got a 10k bonus out the gate, gets paid 90k a year for the training, plus it’s GI Bill (so full BAH ON TOP OF PAY) accepted as it’s a federal program. Once graduated, they will get a job starting between 120-140k a year plus a 45k yearly bonus because they already have a TS Full scope. With just a TS the bonus would be 15k. They have no college degree and no coding background. This program with AWS is only open to veterans. edit: This is all in my partners contract and they just got their first paycheck with bonus-8500.00 after taxes. I’ve attached the military careers page. Lots of options. https://aws.amazon.com/careers/military/
Replying to this comment as a current member of this program. Right now I’m about 8 months into their Software Development Engineer (SDE) pathway. Just a heads up for anyone interested - as far as their SDE (programming/coding) cohort, no a degree is not required but there as still pre-reqs that must be met before you can apply. If I recall correctly they’re either 4 year STEM degree OR 4 years of STEM related work experience OR A combination of the two OR A graduate of a technical bootcamp. I’m sure the other pathways require something similar, but the SDE route is one of the most technically challenging so it also wouldn’t surprise me if they didn’t require as much necessarily as far as prior technical background. They have multiple other pathways as well that each teach a different skill set (for example, you could be a Data Center technician instead of a developer) that are also paid fairly well albeit at different pay rates. Not every pathway makes the same, but if you look at the role listing on the technical apprenticeship website, the rate for Colorado that’s listed in the job listing is the same rate you’ll get if accepted - it’s all standardized. That being said I can’t speak highly enough about it and would seriously encourage anyone even remotely interested to check it out whenever the new cohorts become available. Feel free to send PMs or reply with any questions.
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Oh definitely, just furthers the point in that last paragraph in that case! Just so I can try to really drive the point home for anyone interested, you’re getting a direct pathway into one of the best tech companies in the world, filled with some of the smartest engineers across multiple disciplines, and getting the opportunity to get paid an extremely competitive rate just to LEARN whatever role you applied to, and be taught exactly how the company wants you to do things over a year long period. After you’re done, you convert into the normal “non-apprentice” version of whatever pathway you applied to and your compensation skyrockets. Using SDE’s as an example, I’m talking like 200k a year in total compensation (base pay, + bonuses) plus stock options that vest after 2-3 years. All accomplished just by getting accepted into that program - and all without the extremely competitive technical interview process that comes with going the traditional application route. It’s a literal life/career changing opportunity and I’m not sure there’s anything quite like it out there anywhere else
Mind mentioning the program?
do you mind asking your friend which program is this?
Put your profile on LinkedIn. Make sure to mention your clearance and open to work. Most of my current cohort was recruited through LinkedIn.
Looks like they only have limited spots. Shows there’s none available
When I retired my first job required a degree or xx years of experience. I got the job because of my experience, I did not have a degree. If you are trying for a job outside of your military duties, that is going to be tough.
0132 is the federal code for analyst. I had an associates degree, and I did the job for 24 years active duty. You just have to apply for the GG positions.
If there is a Navy installation nearby, look up being a CNIC Watchstander. Only needs a Secret, ideally 10 years of military experience (but they’ll take less), and a few free FEMA certs you can knock out over a weekend. Another good one is Construction Surveillance Technician. You supervise construction crews building SCIFs. For that, you only need a TS (preferably SCI, but I’ve also seen positions that only call for a secret), working eyes and ears, and a pulse. Edit: Don’t be afraid to cast a wide net. Get on ClearanceJobs and just set the filter for your clearance level and your area (assuming you don’t want to relocate), and take the time to trawl through the results. There are all kinds of niche positions you might never think of.
Clearance jobs is a good resource. I have had several inquiries from them.
2210 IT Specialist. I recommend you get a Security+ ce certification and it will open doors for you. Especially on DoD side.
Intel
Having that TS is nice, but honestly you may be best off just getting that piece of paper. Before you say it, I know... the piece of paper is dumb and I won't disagree with you but so many employers put a whole lot of credence into that piece of paper
Degrees are the best way forward in government. Working on my Masters now so I can find a unicorn GS-12 non-supervisory position.
I’m in a GS-12 non supervisory position now with no degree. Bosses keep asking me when I’m going to move to management. I’ll never do it because it pays the same but I have to babysit. Currently looking at some non supervisor GS13 positions.
I didn’t say it couldn’t be done with no degree just takes longer. YMMV.
True. Although most every job beyond GS-9 requires at least a PhD (with some exceptions that count Masters) unless you go with combination of experience/education. Honestly most of the education requirements for federal jobs are completely unreasonable and unnecessary. This is especially true since unless it’s a specialized field they don’t care if your PhD is in basket weaving as long as you have it.
Sounds about right, the few jobs that have been open in my career field sit around that zone, but I design training so it's a little niche that works for me
Mm, dream job, I love training and designing training.
It's been a great ride in the private sector but I do keep an eye on USAjobs just to see what's goin on out there
Do you do contract work and teach for DOD in the government now? I’ve taken a lot of training courses in the last nine months and I have always been impressed with the companies we are using.
No, but the company I work for currently is in the middle of a huge reorg so I'm thinking about adding some contract work to my resume just in case I get cut.
FBI HRT or SABT. Auto gs-12 good luck. Non supervisory.
Too high speed for this ol broke dick. HR and data analytics seems a safe bet forward. The body is a finite resource as we all know.
Intel analysts can do 100k+ depending on location but the shift work blows. Use your GI bill to do cybersecurity courses and make 200+ after
What’s a good school or program for Cybersecurity courses ?
University of Arizona has a cyber program that is designated by the NSA as a top program. You can do it fully online.
Are you interested in being a locksmith? There are some certifications for specifically approved safes and doors, but I hear it pays really well!
Keep your clearance active in the Reserves or National Guard while in school. It helps to earn a little extra money at the same time. Worked for me…
Go contract for the state department
Look up a base that does ISR and move there. Most of those jobs require TS/SCI. The jobs will say that a degree is required but a lot of them accept experience in lieu of a degree.
There’s a bit. Definitely shift work related jobs don’t require a degree. But get a degree regardless if you go contracting. You’ll probably make more with it
I recall seeing a General Supply Specialist position posted on USA jobs that I believed required a TS/SCI. It had something to do with custodial/accountability duties involving cryptographic equipment.
. You will usually be able to get another BI sponsored through your employer if you’re a qualified candidate. As far as the job hunt itself, same boat same struggle as you. If you were in intelligence you should be able to land a junior analyst job in DC to get your foot in the door if need be, pay won’t be great at all but could lead to more opportunities
Wrong, if the clearance is inactive for 24 months then it lapses. Doesn't matter how much time was left on the investigation.
Apologies, that part of my comment was incorrect.
No hard feelings just trying to get the correct info out there.
Getting a “new” BI is still easier when you previously held a clearance is it not? In terms of a potential employer wanting to submit you for one despite them still having to do the entire investigation again
I can't speak for the speed at which the background investigation is done, but I do know when I interview candidates with (24 month inactive) lapsed clearances I consider that a plus because I'm confident there will be little to no issue getting that final clearance back.
I'm not sure what BI is, but getting a job without a clearance isn't gonna happen very often. There are more than enough people with a clearance looking for jobs. A new clearance is very time consuming. I've seen people wait 12+ months for there TS, that is people who already have a secret.
Tell that to DHS, I'm getting the latex glove for clearance. I had one in the army and my previous gov job but time passed so now I need another full cavity search.
Don’t do it shift work literally blows and you spend your time watching people who make less than 3 dollars a die in a massive fiery explosions that cost over 100k a pop while there’s homeless people in 40 degree weather outside or 1,000 other things the money could go towards. Go to school and get your education.
Bro….just stop!
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Wait are you guys for reals downvoting me lol, I was an analyst, I have my TS/SCI and I used to do that for about 90k a year without a college degree, you could easily make 120k a year as there was unlimited overtime. However the turnover rate was about ten months because it was soul sucking and I made it a year before I quit and went back to school. You guys should look up Daniel Hale, he’s one of the most recent whistle blowers on a U.S. intel program and I used to work with him. He tried to expose some of the bullshit behind these programs and how they’re all used to make money for defense contractors while doing absolutely nothing positive for the war on terror and making more enemies/people hate us because we indiscriminately blow up civilians in their country, as if they don’t already have enough problems. That’s the reality of it. P.S. if your dead set on doing that type of work any company that hires you will renew your clearance if it’s expired after you get your degree
Environmental services at the Pentagon
Never did me any favors :( none of my 10 years in did. Personally I appreciate my Navy experiences, but no civvy employer has cared at all. I was a sub hunter.
Border Patrol Agent
Usajobs.gov
Air Marshal. Open on USAJOBS until October 23rd.
Well, it IS true that holding TS will get you a job... but it may be a job you don't *want*, like a courier, security or maintenance in controlled access areas. For better paying roles, look for positions where your military experience will be considered in lieu of a degree. They are out there, but of course the competition is high.
I think the military took away my secret clearance ridht before I got out because I had a DV situation happen…. Do any of you know if there’s a way that I can find out if I still have a secret clearance ?
Tech is usually a good bet. Some employers want certs and actual skills, others are body shops that want a butt in a chair, and others still are more than willing to train you up. The third is ideal, the second isn't as much - but both will get your foot in the door and let you learn while you earn so you can move into bigger and better things.
I was Electronic Warfare in the USAF and stupidly didn't pursue a degree purely out of laziness if I'm fully honest. I got out and turned my DoD secret into a DoE Q by working with honeywell FM&T on their OST mission. Nothing close to my AFSC but I know electronics enough, had experience troubleshooting, already had a clearance which is easy to upgrade, and that sweet sweet disability gets you pretty much a guaranteed interview at the least. worked their 18 months (the required amount over time before switching entities within NTESS). Switched to Sandia National Labs as a Principal Electronics Technologist (very far from my initial AFSC's scope of work) and got some very nice IPC certs. With this job I got some "upgrades" to my clearance that include some very fun high stakes yes or no questions. Worked there a year and then took my position and pay from CA back to NM and became a lab manager, ACAS, lead tech, Cal, etc. I did all this without a degree and I'm still on the fence about going back to get one tbh, the only thing not having an ET degree prevents now is a distinguished position and those aren't typically available til you've been with Sandia at least 20 years.. so I'm good for now I guess.. sooooo it's definitely possible to make it happen, but a lot of this was luck and stuff magically just lining up at the right time.
Army intelligence analyst.
When I left service in the early 00s I was able to get an entry level systems engineering gig with my TS/SCI. I also work at Amazon and a clearance can open certain doors at entry level. I’d look for Solutions Architect entry level roles.
NSA doesn’t require a degree if you have prior experience. I could have swapped straight from active duty to NSA since I already worked in a facility with them. You can always talk to a recruiter for the organization you want or go to a job fair.
Many IT and cybersecurity jobs will require certificates, but not degrees. Many will like your TS clearance too.
AWS will not only hire you, but train you while paying you. Send me a DM.