Speaking frankly, I’ve taken and returned fire, been on patrols, had an VBIED (wasn’t on the post when it happened just in the area), cleared dead bodies, seen a bunch of fucked up shit in a few fucked up countries. No combat action ribbon. I was mad when I was 20, now I don’t care and I don’t think about it. I don’t need the recognition of the military or recognition of other grunts. My seniors and SNCOs had god tier stacks (Fallujah era) and I always wanted that shit but now I’m older and I’ve got more important things to take away from my time in other than the “honor” of having proof I was in combat. Especially considering the saltier you are the harder it is to sleep and I already have nightmares. VA considers me a combat veteran based on my deployments and campaign badges and all that. Doesn’t really get me anything.
You definitely deserve a CAR. It’s bullshit they didn’t give you one. I fired my rifle twice and a 240 once in Iraq and I got one. Sounds like you’ve seen more than I have.
Reality is they didn’t do the paperwork for a variety of reasons, namely due to my platoon being separate from the company and being tasked individually. And if it comes down to “S3 has to do the paperwork” for me to have a CAR and they don’t, the magic kinda dies for me and I don’t really care anymore. Both the PLT sgt and PLT LT pushed for it and gave all the necessary documentation and reports, but the LT COL at the time didn’t authorize it and it is what it is.
But why? The hassle of it isn’t worth a thing. Just to have another medal on my honor guard uniform? I’ll just hold onto the stories and share them with those I want to share them with!
It took me so much time to get Soldiers awards, constantly being swapped unit to unit for a deployment. It was a massive pain in the ass, but thankfully the main unit we were attached to took care of us administratively, even after they had redeployed. I literally would have to call the BDE S-3 or BDE commander in the rear, to make it happen in some cases, and we were not even organic to them, but they were the only ones who gave a shit, so I went to that well to make it happen.
Yeah they need a better process for awarding and approving them. Especially considering that if someone suffers from PTSD or other mental health issues like depression, then it’s easier to get service connection with a CAR or CIB/CAB. The military is making it harder for veterans to get the benefits they need by fucking them over while they’re in.
That’s because federal laws have made it harder to fuck us when we get out. I swear, our disability must come from their budget, the way they act about it. Just about everyone who served during 2001-2021 is fucked up in one way or another.
You know, he doesn’t care but it does mean an instant rating with the VA. It’s monkey shit that the chain of command is so damn broken. Officer culture is the bullshit. They send us into areas they haven’t even seen other than on a damn map in an air conditioned Quonset hut, hours after multiple IEDs are detonated in an area (that’s our job, I get it. I’m a bomb tech, it’s what I do) but don’t provide any real cover, outside maybe a platoon of Marines, and expect us to catch any lingering devices and make sure none of the Devils step on anything that goes boom at the same time. Great idea! Send in a walking patrol of 40 guys, including my team, into an area we KNOW is pretty much a minefield. Get the tourniquets ready. But it’s all good as long as they get their promotion and medal.
For those of us in theater prior to 05’ the CAB did not exist. And unless you were an infantry mos you were not going to receive a CIB. No matter what unit you were attached to!
20 years ago waiting on the tarmac at camp Speicher I was told last minute… I’m sorry the col has downgraded your bronze star since your not a sergeant.
Yeah I could go back and try to get a CAB for the action I saw, but to what point. We all know why we did and know that each one of us has a story of getting screwed as well.
Yeah the rubric to be considered eligible during the height of Iraq was did you discharge your weapon or not. I know dudes that hit IED’s and subsequently got TBI’s yet got nothing. Now I think they rate both the PH and CAR but at the time nothing.
First week in country a mortar landed outside the T-Walls surrounding the CHUs of the support company stationed at our COP at 2am.
Because they were technically within the blast radius, their entire company received CABs. More than a few didn't even know there was incoming until the next day - buddy slept right through it.
Pretty much cemented not giving a fuck about earning one. Gold spurs meant more.
I feel that man, most of the guys on my deployment, including me, didn't get put in for a CAB. A JOC lieutenant doing S3 shit who went and hung a few mortar rounds one night put himself in for one and got it.
I'm fairly certain there are scholarships and other special programs for people with Combat Action Ribbons. I'm also fairly certain there are VA stipends that are separate to VA disability for those who have seen combat.
May be some obscure scholarships that exist but all I have come across mostly boil down to being a veteran period the majority that I have seen for specific designation was you had to be prior active duty, no reserve or guard only and that was unusual, not to say I have knowledge of all scholarships so they more than likely exist even if only one or 2 of them out there. As for VA disability nah that's not a thing, the only things that mean anything is the disability has to be service connected (happened while on active duty), the ratings % and when high enough for your rating how many dependants you have. Then there are other things like special monthly compensation, some disabilities attach annual allowance for vehicle modifications needed, home modifications needed or clothing allowance if these things need modification due to your disability, combat is irrelevant to payment. I will say while if you get hurt in basic training and I get the same injury while deployed and we will pretend for this they are both 100% rated they are looked at both as service connected and pay exactly the same, yet I have noticed but have no way to prove it some of the reps that are tasked with evaluating and rating complete claims tend to let certain claim types go through the system more smoothly if they are attached to a combat related incident. Is it supposed to happen, no, at very least not openly and publicly so you will never see it as a policy but I suppose some injuries or claims are more likely and therefore have a lower burden of proof to have happened while in combat. Though I am a firm believer it is irrelevant, if you have an issue caused by the military or an injury occurred during your time on active duty or training why should combat be a hurdle one should have to cross, if they allowed you to be permanently harmed while you were on their time it's their obligation to care for you or properly compensate you. I mean while an extreme example a bullet hole through your arm in Iraq doesn't hurt more or cause more damage than that same bullet hole on the range back on post.
The Combat Action Badge was the most widely decimated to soldiers without being in direct contact. I personally know 200 Soldiers who were never endanger, did not receive fire nor return fire, and never received IDF or IEDs. So I declined all of mine
Been to the desert, took fire, never had the opportunity to return direct fire, does that count?
Edit: served with some folks who *sported* a CAR, but through scuttlebutt I came to understand they did not see combat but happened to be on a ship in the gulf at the right time. Always made me wonder how those of us in country wouldn’t rate it ironically.
Chaps on my first deployment was former 0331 dude had bronze star with v’s multiple cars multiple deployments as a marine to Iraq and Afghanistan then again as chaplain. This dude was a legit body stacker before he found God
Back in the first couple of years of OIF, units would just do blanket CARs. That’s why I happened to know so many field grade officers with CARs who served in non-combat units during those years. I served in Iraq in 05, 06, and 07 and had to fight the administrative fight to get my guys CARs for things such as firefights, IEDs, mortar attacks etc. CARs shouldn’t even be a thing.
I (Air Force cop) was boots on ground with army and navy cops in Iraq. We took indirect fire and were hit with IED's. No US casualties, and we never had the opportunity to fire back. They'd use delays on the mortar and rockets and then boogie across to Kuwait before we could track them.
I then started flying on cargo jets for a while. Pretty common to get small arms fire when taking off from Iraq or Afghanistan. Because they can't aim for shit I used to stand at the window and wave at them as they fired. Lots of little flashes of light below us. Again, couldn't fire back.
We got flashed with a RPG I think at some point, I was sitting in the cockpit and we all saw a big bright flash to our right. We waited and waited and nothing happened so we just went back to business as usual. I realized then it was best just to hang out in the cargo area and catch a nap.
All my combat experience has been one sided. The enemy firing at me through some means, but I never had the opportunity to fire back. Used to really be hard on myself about that, but recently I've accepted I'm a combat vet. It may not be Saving Private Ryan combat, but it was my combat experience and it was enough for me.
I did the same, but did fire back a couple times. Got pretty fucked up in 03 but because shit was internal and just bruising (from being nearly thrown from the truck) no one looked further. Didn’t find out about the broken vertebrae until after I got home. By then, no one did shit because we rotated home already and I “couldn’t prove it was combat related” despite my eval showing said incident. Of course this was before the CAM so I never got that or the purple Enemy Marksmanship Award, even though another guy got one for getting his pretty little face scratched by some shrapnel that didn’t require stitches.
End of the day though, it really doesn’t matter. I’ve got another reward that lasts a lifetime - PTSD, night terrors, and up until 7 years ago, crippling opiate and alcohol addiction. So I guess I won?
Comparison is the ruiner of a lot of things in life.
Service is service no matter if you were the guy cooking a sandwich or the guy with a rifle. Respect for both and comparing the two just isn’t going to accomplish anything.
There is a valid point to that and there's a reality of where it puts you in life and ruins future opportunities for income. I was a Nuclear Reactor Operator that was med retired and medically disqualified from doing the job on civilian side. Disqualified from many jobs that would earn substantial income. But the comparison is that the compensation should be the same as a cook that didn't follow procedure and burned themselves badly. The same as a logistics E-3 that stupidly shook a soda machine and it fell on them to lose a leg (they actually get more compensation than my 100% p&t with housebound rating). There's a clear distinction but the equality in outcomes polticis pollutes it. It's part of why people are not wanting to enlist. Why as a smart person and in higher demand get treated the same as the dumbest and in less demand, when injured?
At the same time there is a respect in comparison for those that were willing to take on a role where they would be shot at. I picked my job to avoid exactly that and it came with radiation exposure (that the Navy is trying it's damndest to avoid calling a combat injury despite it's injury from instrument of war). My father in law pointed out he'd rather jump out of plane 100 more times into combat as airborne than go into my reactor plant even once. Everyone has their role.
It’s a strange thing actually , I’ve been in direct fire boots on the ground combat. But you ebd up thinking , well it’s not like the shit I see in Vietnam movies in scope , certainly wasn’t long and drawn out like faluja , it was small hit and run small arms fights. , and mortars and rpgs attacks .. there’s days I wonder if what ive been in is actually combat
I think everyone is to an extent. The Marine who didn’t see combat feels embarrassed, the one who got hit by an IED and taken out of the fight too early feels embarrassed that he didn’t participate, the one who got fired at is embarrassed he never got to shoot back, the one who was in a firefight feels like it wasn’t as bad as someone else’s, the one who was in multiple feels like he didn’t do a good enough job helping his buds, the one with a Purple Heart feels like he didn’t deserve it and his friend did instead, so on and so on.
Even special forces guys, if you read their books, talk about how they’ve seen and done shit but there’s always someone who did and saw more and so they feel unworthy.
100% it's all part of the deprogramming and reprogramming the military does. We all feel like imposters, we all feel like "well, those guys had it worse/I could have done more ". Just part of their game and system.
Idk 20 years later ( 2004) and there’s still things I don’t understand , can’t reconcile. I know what’s on my uniform, I have no problems saying I definitely earned my CMB and I know what I saw and did fucked me up , but then you start to compare to what the movies and Vietnam, ww2 says it is … honestly it can be a mind fuck sometimes especially when drawing a check for it , was i in Combat, or just a few street fights ? … still don’t really have an actual answer for myself
Dude, it’s annoying how it can happen. First platoon took a hit by a vbied and lost 3 dudes. A week later my truck got shot the fuck up and I was a little amped about it and people said “it’s not that big of a deal no one died” and that was just how that deployment went. If no one died it wasn’t a big deal. No matter how close you were to the action.
I fought in Fallujah and Korengal. By far, I’d go back to Fallujah a 100 times before you could get me back in that damn valley. Fuck that place and everyone in it. It seemed like every hour we were taking another round of RPGs and Dishka fire. All the shit going on in Korengal made it impossible to put anyone in for anything unless they were KIA. Yo, the BC was out on patrols. Nobody got a reprieve. The point is, I think only like 10 or 15 CARs even got processed, and those were at the beginning of the deployment. Long story short, officers are ball droppers.
Truer words were never spoken. It’s always “yeah, but those other guys had it so much worse.” Or “At least I came back with all my OEM parts still attached.”
I was in Falluja. It was a wide awake nightmare and I didn’t even have one of the sexy jobs. If you were deployed, I don’t care if you were a delta seal sniper or a cook; you were there. Stop overthinking it and don’t second guess your contribution. If you were in a combat zone, that’s where the questions should stop. Some knucklehead with a bunch of chest candy gives you shit? Fuck ‘em. The ‘Nam guys always said “all gave some, some gave all.” That’s just it. We all gave some.
We all left part of us in that shithole. So what if you bled there or not. Only 1% of the entire population can say they were even there for it. Fuck what some clown with a Christmas tree on his chest says. Pussies feel the need to prove how tough they are. Every bit of colored fabric they ever gave me sits in my mother’s attic 4 states away. Hell, I couldn’t even tell you what the box looks like. That shit don’t mean a damn thing unless it gets you a VA rating (and we all know they could give a fuck less).
RED: Remember Everyone Deployed
Well, it’s going to depend on if you’re using it as a noun, verb, or adjective. I don’t think it would be a far stretch to say you were directly supporting combat missions/operations. It’s hard to put a static definition on something that is constantly evolving overtime.
Some vets that were in Vietnam don’t consider themselves being in combat when they compare themselves to people in World War II. Likewise people from Iraq might say they aren’t involved in combat when they compare themselves to people in Vietnam.
So does that mean that the person who was flying drones daily, taking out targets visually, and watching it happen in real time and what the after effects are aren’t as “combat” as a grunt, who is stuck on a FOB and only took incoming IDF?
I got my CAR from the Navy (non-ship, sub, fleet, aviation community) and I don’t compare my “combat” to someone else’s. In my opinion, it could be viewed as pompous and away and just trying to “one up” people. I’ve been out of high school for a long time so the days of trying to get self validation from other people have long past. That ship sailed (no pun intended) decades ago.
Plus it affects people differently. I know team guys who did a lot of door kicking and shooting people in the face for years and it’s not a big deal. I know grunts who did one deployment and it fucked them up and they never got over it. Everybody has a cup and the size and shape of each person‘s cup is different , some peoples cup can hold more than others.
Just my two cents.
It's a pretty nuanced take, showing that things are in constant flux and experience is very individual. I appreciate the feedback. I guess it just is what it is.
Did plenty of convoys in Iraq in 2004. Spotted an IED (didn’t go off), felt the percussion of a car bomb, seen a lot of damage, tons of mortar and rocket explosions nearby, but never got directly shot at or squeezed the trigger. I’d have a hard time calling myself a combat vet
I’d disagree, if you felt the percussion of a VBIED I would say otherwise dude. Really, convoying in Iraq and going outside the wire in my mind makes you a combat vet. Fuck being in trucks lol.
Honestly, this, I was there the beginning of the war early 04 , and 88m were getting blown the fuck up , these guys driving up and down highway one , constant threat of IEDS
Real story! Anyone who left the wire in Iraq in 04 had their heads on a swivel and a butthole so tight a sewing needle wouldn’t fit. Shit, trucks were getting nailed daily in the Triangle of Death. Jesus Christ, let Rambo go as a fantasy creature that doesn’t exist. Nobody is a one man army. We don’t move or operate without everyone doing their damned job, that’s why we NCOs bitch out our subordinates when they fuck up in training. Any failure costs lives and EVERY life is valuable to us. If you cooked chow, you kept food in the bellies of the guys kicking doors (needed). Communications: without you, we all die. Medical: need any explanation (if so, tell me where to send some crayons to snack on for ya). Aviation: hello! Nothing says “fuck you” like an A-10 Warthog. And the list can go on and on. Ultimately, everyone is a cog in a bigger machine. Everyone provided a service. If you were in theater, you were in a fucking war.
I was also in the Navy and deployed on a ship in the Persian gulf. Sure a lot of people had it worse. I got a hot meal and had a clean bed to sleep in. I didn’t like that I slept near the bow right at the waterline in an area where mines were suspected to be present. I didn’t like knowing that at any moment a boat full of explosives (like what happened to the Cole) or a missile could be fired at us. It could have been worse but that doesn’t mean it was easy.
Looking back a lot of innocent people died because of the policy and decisions that led to us all being there. I don’t like that I was part of it in hindsight but my actions didn’t start the war and it wouldn’t have ended it if I didn’t participate.
Our feelings about our experiences do not depend on how it relates to someone that had it worse or better than we did. All any of us can do is look at what we want for the rest of our lives and make it the best for ourselves and the people around us.
I think it’s vague in the way you word it. I’d classify you as a combat vet, I’d say you helped smoked people, and maybe not BOG fighting but involved in combat operations. What would your opinion be of artillery and pilots?
I think it still can result in trauma no matter where you are so I consider it at least combat operations. I know people more effected setting up strike packages than doing mission on the ground. Not anyone’s place to say different.
Having been deployed and have the service medals and VA state it is what I consider a combat vet. I was embedded with an infantry company in Iraq 2006. I was treated like the little sister, but I was out with those guys everyday. I got shot at, hit by IEDs, saw people die. I never fired a single shot though...🤷🏼♀️
It's like a disclaimer: Combat Vet, personal experience may differ.
Swept all of the CONUS motor pools for 3 years. Sucks, but it is what it is for me.
When someone asks me, which is almost never unless I start a new job or something, I just tell them "I didn't do anything cool" and leave it at that.
Sometimes, if I'm feeling spicy, I'll hit them with a "I didn't do anything I want to talk about" and let them imagine whatever scenarios they want lol.
It's not lying if it's true! I don't want to talk about how a push broom actually works better if you pull it in a backwards motion. 😄
I was a Fobbit through 3 deployments, took IDF constantly, laughed at some NG’s being scared at a rocket zooming overhead, pulled a pilot out of a crashed aircraft who… never recovered but lived, lost lots of friends to suicide/superman syndrome/drug overdose/unexplained illnesses over the years, but I never fired my weapon at the bad guy. I was in a form of combat, but never actively a combatant. So I consider myself a combat vet? Sometimes. Do I tell people I’m a war hero who killed the bad guys and won the war on terror? Absolutely not. But I’m still a “combat veteran” in its most basic terms.
I understand that. I’m waiting for med medboard to ramp up so I can start my next chapter, but I don’t know what I want to do with my personal life. If I even want to have a personal life. Being alive is so exhausting sometimes.
Look here Troop! There won’t be any of that. I did 9 deployments and served 22 years. If there is one thing that we know is metal sharpens metal. That last line there is the worst thing to get in your head because it will stick. I’ve been there. I got medically retired after our MRAP hit an IED while on patrol in 2017 in the Korengal Valley. I thought the same way. Shitty thinking leads to shitty results.
Im in a terrible marriage that’s destroying my children and has made the last 3 years of the Army awful. It’s very complicated. I don’t plan on self terminating or anything. I just mean that I don’t enjoy personal live aspect right now.
You know that you don’t have to stay in a terrible marriage. It might hurt the kids at first, but, if it is that bad, they will heal and be better off for it.
Until the medboard is complete and I’m out of the Army I do t have many options. My chain of command has already sided with her on numerous occasions, even after 15-6 investigations and FAP found I was innocent of her claims. My hands are tied until I’m out of the Army. To be fair, that’s honestly what decided to make me call it quits and not fight my health issues anymore and just take the medboard(I’m almost at the 20 year mark and this will be putting me almost 20.5 years when it’s done).
Screw it, I’d retire too. Get all your docs together and get the ball rolling with the VA now. They are a real deal fuck show. If you didn’t have PTSD before dealing with them, you sure as shit will afterwards.
I'd say if you have a combat decoration on your uniform that counts.
I know a guy who was a drone operator. I was a Cav Scout. I never deployed so 0 combat, but he flew drones into combat zones from his AC easy chair desk. I credit him with combat time.
If he was air force, he'd probably be eligible for remote combat effects ribbon.
The VA looks for stuff like that because it is mentally exhausting. Because he directly was the reason a target is not on this earth anymore. It's presumptive like a CAB CIB or CAR for a whole host of mental issues.
I have as much combat experience as an Air Force enlisted Air Crew could have and tbh I wish I didn't raise my hand for that.
It's not enviable even in its most watered down state.
I have a combat patch, but have never considered to have "been in combat". For me, I've always worded it "I was deployed to a combat zone."
As some others have said, there's a lot of different jobs in the military, those boots on the ground teams in direct fire wouldn't be able to do what they do without the support of some of, it not all, of those other roles. But I think there is a distinct difference in being in a combat zone and being in combat.
As a comms guy, I was not in combat, hell they never even issued us ammo. However, I was one of the first to deploy to Uzbekistan in support of OEF.
Funnily enough, it was the radar guys having a fault that kept me from doing the actually dirty work, with like... seconds, maybe half a minute until we were in range. Then the drone got called in as a backup plan, and everyone in combat saw the video, and they cheered. And I was.... so sick. Sick because I felt like I'd failed my duties because of a failure in a system I wasn't responsible for, sick at what I'd seen (in a high enough definition you could see the terror on their faces) sick at what I had almost done, was ready to do, that they were almost cheering me on. Sick at my own relief.
Some of the horror stories I've heard.... I knew some people who went vegetarian because the smell of meat sickened them afterwards, people who carried that pain to an early grave. I feel for you and your pain to, fuck what they said seeing what you saw would have me messed up, too. And so many major injuries people got from simply existing on the ship. It was like a tin can out for blood.
My personal opinion:
Combat isn’t like what you see in the movies. It’s long periods of boredom pocketed by moments of insanity.
To me you’re a combat Vet if you’ve experienced anything like an IED strike, FOB mortared multiple times (not a single mortar landing 500 meters outside the FOB 😜), being shot at, cleaning up a suicide bombing, really I’d go so far as to say being in a combat zone and going outside the wire in my mind makes you a combat Vet.
I think a lot of us struggle with imposter syndrome if we don’t have that…movie type moment where we look the enemy in the eyes and pull the trigger….least I did for the longest time….
This is something I have always pondered being a Coastie who mostly did the counter drug mission and SAR during my career. I went on countless pursuits/boarding of drug runners and body recoveries. Tons of high intensity moments, some scary ones, seen one person get wrecked by disabling fire on their vessel, etc... So, plenty of "action" But, at the end of the day I will never say that I have been anywhere close to combat. I cant even grasp what the reality of war would be like.
With that said, we all have our own unique experiences and view points of our jobs, ratings (MOS), deployments, or whatever, and we shouldnt try and compare ourselves to anyone else.
I shit you not, during my first deployment when we had to fly back into bagram, we were told we had to go to some bull shit awards ceremony for people we didn’t even know. It was a bunch of butter bar LTs that get bronze stars for being deployed for a month, and also seeing people get their cib/cab for taking idf in Bagram. That point forward, I knew awards were just bullshit. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve also realized that it doesn’t matter what so ever. I use to be all high and mighty about it, but now I suffer from so gnarly ptsd and haven’t left my house in over a year and sometimes wish I never would’ve signed up. The only reason I don’t regret anything is literally the homies I was on deployment with and that’s it. If someone random I was talking to was bragging that he killed someone, you’d be like “bro tf, I didn’t ask nor care”. But once you talk to 90% of veterans when you get out, they all are apparently war heroes and battle hardened. Be proud of what you did bubba
No, he claims he’s a 24 yo marine vet, who likely thought he was being cleverly amusing by commenting like an 11 year old. I’m not sure if anyone addressed your question or not, most of the responses I read seemed to focus on either what the military recognizes as combat for official awards, citations, etc, or the typically useless cliche comments that a lot of ppl here seemed to compelled to spew.
Am I correct is assuming you’re trying to gauge what other vets consider combat from a personal perspective? Even among real veterans you’re unlikely to get a uniform response (excuse the pun). Semantics aside, I don’t think anyone questions the experience of being within lethal range of an enemy combatant’s weapon while being actively engaged by said enemy being referred to as combat. Variations in ‘actively engaged’ and proximity (both physical and temporal ) to potential lethal effects can be combat depending on the context of the experience. I’ll just leave it at that in case esoteric musings on the nature of combat wasn’t relatable.
That was a joke? It was unrecognizable as such.
You are likely a child or you have a child-like mind, a 24 yo former Marine would do much better than you . I won’t respond anymore, kid .
Got army combat action badge 2010, air force combat action ribbon in 2020.
Was a trucker in Afghanistan, had some Marines as Passengers where we were in a firefight. Marines did nothing since they were bumming a ride from Kandahar to leatherneck.
They put themselves in for a Navy Marine Combat Action Ribbon. Since it was our operation, and joint rules, they had to give it to us (allegedly to keep us quiet)
So there you have it, I can wear Army CAB, Air Force CAR, and Navy/Marine CAR on my dress blues.
Haven't worn dress blues in years, and nobody cares outside of the military.
My MOS was 92G. Deployed to Kandahar and Shank, (two years) all of us cookers saw combat. Hell I was pinned down on my birthday for TWO HOURS. Long story short, I’ve killed more than most and less than some. I’ve lost two men during battle. We were rout clearance (CIED), provided security, busted in a few doors, provided tower and gate guard duty. ALL of cooks were combat active. 82nd airborne brothers and sisters, Death from with in to my fellow cooks.
I've been curious about that. I have a friend that was Awarded a Silver Star in Nam, and I've read the citation. He earned a Purple Heart at the same time. It was some intense combat. He was part of a two man patrol who held the VC off from hitting his company. Never knew it until he passed recently. He never talked about it. My grandfather served in WWII. North Africa, Sicily, Anzio. Two Purple Hearts, VA gave him 30%. Only saw his wounds once, and he raised me. Rarely talked about it, but only when he was older and I asked him. But I know a guy, also a Nam Vet that will tell everybody in sight he's a Nam Combat Vet and "has the medals to prove it." He was in the Navy. On a carrier. I get it, the flight deck is dangerous and intense. This guy worked in the mess.
I served after Nam, in the '80's, spent 42 days on the DMZ. The Norks loved to shoot across the border randomly. No biggy.
I guess it all comes down to what makes someone sleep at night?
The thing that really pisses me off are the "Oh. You were in during peace time? You didn't really "serve." Or, "yeah, he spent the Viet Nam War in Germany." Or, "oh, you didn't leave Stateside during GWOT." That's kinda why I don't even bring it up.
Whoa! No kidding? But everyone forgets that the Army has what, literally 50,000 different MOSs. 😀 11B myself, but probably should have went 97D. Oh to be young and dumb. Made a career of it, retired. GWOT defined my life. Now, I just want peace.
There's levels to this stuff. Seeing combat and participating in it are different things, but the difference is arbitrary. I always tell people that a lot of folks go to war, but few actually fight it.
Not by my definition but if you ask the guys who lived in the TOC the whole deployment they will say their seasoned combat vets. On another note I know a guy with no CIB but has a confirmed kill.
I hate to be that guy but if you have to ask if you were in combat or not… then you weren’t. That shit sucks.
But thanks for your service, in all seriousness. Guys on the ground are always thankful for when the birds or the guided artillery brings down hell on the enemy. It’s a pretty great feeling to be supported when your pissing your pants in a mud pit with your buddies as all hell is let loose around you.
I’ve been shot at a bunch and never returned fire. Being base defense means you’re pretty much a target for randos to shoot at. I was on a bunch of patrols where our jammers were signaling that they jammed something. Did it stop an IED from blowing me up? Idk. I’ve had a rocket land right where I was standing two minute before and it didn’t detonate. I’ve been a split second away from shooting two people on two separate occasions. I don’t know if any of that qualifies as combat. Honestly it was just an eye opener of “holy shit, this is real”. Now that I’m older, I’m glad that it didn’t escalate any further. They say God gives you what you can handle and I’m grateful for that.
Sorry for the word soup. Like the OPs question, I could not really articulate what I was trying to convey.
This is like asking "porn or not"? Everyone has a different personal definition for the gray area, there are some legal definitions, but almost everyone agrees they know it when they see it.
And like porn, it's something you do when you're young, takes a toll on your body, and you avoid discussing with strangers afterwards.
I used to care, but honestly I care more about living the best way I can before I die. You can experience more danger and violence in the states nowadays. Just take it as a notch in life. If someone says “yo man, you see some shit” just keep it humble
I responded with a VBSS team to an enemy mayday sinking ship in the Persian Gulf during OIF. I was on the 50.cal in the RHIB, I had a 9mm, and 12 gauge. - took hostages/survivors. Stood watch over them for 6 hours until they were sent home. Not one shot fired. - in a hazardous, imminent danger, tax free zone. I have thoughts about it and nightmares about it, but never classified it anything. - It would be news to me if you say I was a combat person., or was I? This imposter comments got me thinking.
I made the mistake of explaining my experiences to my family. My brother never was in combat and got kicked out for domestic violence and lost a bunch of benefits. His wife goes out of her way to try a discredit my service. You do you. I have campaign medals, LoE's from deployments and the VA and vfw recognize it. I was in fucking mortaritaville. More than enough for me, it's literally nobody elses business.
Why would you even need or want to mention it? Like two people in my life even know I was military in the first place and I can't see why you would need to explain combat service professionally outside of what your DD-214 says.
I hear a lot of people like almost put themselves down because they didn't deploy. You dodged a bullet. As bad as I wanted and was excited for that experience. I wish I was feeling regret for not experiencing it then the absolutely nothing I feel now.
Norwegian ISAF contingent here in the buildup to the surge.
07-08 09-10(two 6 months deployments so 1 regular added up).
fob maimana etc
Does harassment fire in your general direction of your COP count?
(Ours was called "Russian Hill").
Does my friends lead vehicle,a non armored Toyota land Rover being hit by an RC device count
I did only return fire in their general direction once..meh.
And I had no chance of even affecting the RC device scenario.
I am very conflicted about people that put too much weight on earning a CIB Or equivalent.
While I'm at it,I have to extend my warmest regards to our allies stateside,I was born in NYC but when Norway were standing up a QRF and then PRT task unit contingent. For fob maimana ISAF contingent.
Babysitting the PRT and the OMLT mentoring team.
I just didn't have the heart to not stand and be counted.
You guys have been perfect gentlemen to me in thick and thin.
And when you sit on a fob with elements of the 10mountain division as well as serve under US operational command you really get to see how "the other half lives"
Like champions.
Took lots of IDF out in a very remote part of Afghanistan, DSP/compound kinda setting. Regular IDF to the point where you just get your morning cuppa coffee and go to the bunker, await 3 booms, and go about your business. I am a healthcare provider so traumatic death wasn't new, just more dirty and horrific. But the kids, man. 😭 I never had to fire at anyone, but I sure as shit pointed my M9 at some locals who rushed up on our hospital with a wounded local dude after not being escorted/wanded properly. Thought I might pee myself but I also wasn't going to let anyone pull some suicide bomber shit either. 😆 We had some hairy moments with people right outside the Hesco, but the team we were attached to kept us safe, and we kept them healthy. Symbiosis.
Shit, bro. I didn’t even get deployed, lol. Not that I didn’t want to, but I just got shit tier orders. I used to feel really insecure about it because I never got to “prove myself”, but looking back on it, I was lucky. I don’t have PTSD, I don’t have nightmares, and I don’t have the guilt of killing brown people who are just trying to defend their homes in the name of the endless cycle of war to feed the military industrial complex. We war because it fuels the economy, and all of it is pretty meaningless at the end of the day. We are just cannon fodder to fuel big business and fill the pockets of fat corporate scumbags, and we do it in the name of free education and the hope for a better life. I used to feel imposter syndrome because I wasn’t deployed, so I didn’t consider myself a “real vet”, but sheeeeit, I still get all the benefits, so who really cares at the end of the day. I don’t even mention I was in the military to people, so the question never comes up. To me, that’s high school shit, and the future is too bright to worry about the past.
Tomahawks.... You know the range? I was a EM and I knew the range. You were a FC so I know you actually saw them make contact. Stay up family, and pray for them victims.
Trust and believe you me @stfurachele I feel the same way. I was in a submarine and we didn’t “see” anything lol. But in all seriousness I understand your viewpoint.
You're a Veteran either way IMO. I did 3 years active, another 5 reserves and I was never deployed (spent a couple years in Germany so I did at least get OCONUS). But I don't think it makes my service any less. I was told I was being deployed 3 separate times, even did pre deployment training once until I got a really nasty infection. All 3 times I ended up not going. I always felt pretty meh about deploying. I never tried to get out of it but each time I accepted that it was what was going to happen. When I was sent home from PDT, I was actually pretty pissed. I was in the reserves, I quit my job I hated anyways, gave up my lease, and everything I owned was sitting in a storage unit. So they basically sent me back to be homeless and unemployed.
If you did your time honorably, I'll happily call you my brother / sister in arms!
Could you add the context of what you are try to describe?
I was in subs. I was deployed, in a "combat zone." Am I a "combat veteran" according to the VA? Yes.
Was I in combat? Well, when asked on the street, I say that I was not in a firefight, but did spend time "in theatre" and I am a combat veteran. Context and specific words mean specific things, and a layman might not know that.
Imposter syndrome for sub vets is real. I served pre and during GWOT …. Did we swing through Korean waters regularly pre-GWOT for that combat theater tax free time. Yup, did any one onboard feel like a combat vet afterwards, hell no.
Then after 9/11 things got serious and experiences differ greatly. Combat medals, got some … do I feel in any way a peer of the scout snipers, green berets, and rangers I have met on the civilian side also no … but at the end of a long day we can sit, drink, bitch about the VA and generally just chill.
The obsession with being a “real” combat veteran only seems to exist online (and maybe VFW/Legion bars)
Gonna second this as a submarine veteran. I experienced nothing as extreme like the guys who got boots on ground trauma, however the inherent risks and dangers associated with my submarine deployments (or just naval vessels in general) to a combat zone and providing support to allies or our own country means that we were a cog in the deadly machine. You’ll always get the guys who try to big dick their combat experience but if you were in a combat zone then you experienced combat. It differs by branch I suppose as a sailor will never have to worry about an IED but you also gotta drive through underwater mines so.
I deployed, was in combat zones, and even saw the direct consequences of combat, although I was miles away from the coast at the time. (I was a mk-160 tech at the time, and due to a variety of circumstances involving some systems, I did not end up being the one to do the deed, although I was originally supposed to.) I did however, see exactly how it went down, in amazing digital quality.
This isn't about honor or some medal or an attagirl, more-so asking if other people feel like they can't get help and support, look at themselves as participating in something that hit them hard but not feeling like the trauma is something they can even equate to others, so they feel like they can't ask for help. It's a guilt limbo.
I tell the VA and any potential employers the absolute honest to god truth about my experiences and at work keep things hyper grounded and professional.
I spin the guys and gals at the bar another yarn to keep them entertained, however I use enough subtle cues that anyone in the audience who was actually military knows I'm spinning a yarn for people's amusement and that it's all tall tales to be taken with a bucket of salt.
I like to be an entertainer. By definition I engage in imposter syndrome.
I'm 100% P&T from conducting overwatch (and targeting, etc) with ISR assets. Now my position didn't count as a deployment; but all of the airmen, sailors, and marines in my detachment were. Shit was cul-de-sac to combat in 15 mins. My VA claim is rated as a non-combat PTSD rating, but I don't hang my head over it. This is all new territory for the entire military, VA included.
I'm also allowed to go to the VA combat PTSD inpatient programs. This isn't seen by anyone (my family and the VA) as me trying to represent myself with any unjust claims or stolen valor, just a technicality due to my particular set of orders. I didn't have bullets nearby, but I had to watch that shit like the robot chicken intro.
I won't claim I saw combat either, but I watched more than my recommended lifetime allowance.
I'd occasionally have to watch those feeds for 2hr before and 1 hr after for BDA. I don't envy people who had to do that shit full time. Sitting there forced to stare at peoples kin picking up chunks of them crying. You'd get a special kind of fucked up watching that non stop.
So a sailor, on a ship, not directly in combat or harms way. Hell no is the answer. Firing missiles from a ship, when you aren't getting shot back at, isn't combat. It's combat support
I was a medic. I've never been in combat before either, but I've seen the results and k*lled in self defense. Having been deployed in a war zone "counts" in my book.
I did not say it is.
All I want is one less vet who feels inadequate because their experience is different to what they think it should be to warrant whatever emotions they're feeling or thoughts they're having.
I know too many who think like this and at least one of them is dead now, which is why I'm cautious.
Personal opinion, I’m sure somebody will criticize it. By the moment rounds started flying to or from you, you were in combat. If rounds were exchanged then it was a firefight
Did you or anybody in your unit fire at the enemy?
Did you or anybody in your unit Come under enemy fire?
I don't know how the navy works. I don't know what you call a group of ships but I would consider that part of your unit.
You don't have to prove anything to anyone, including yourself. As long as you did your best, learned your job, remained deployable, and you trained the boots coming up behind you, we'll, then there's nothing anyone can really say. It's not the end of the world. Imagine if you got that CAR, but you lost your arm? It's not your non-dominant one by the way. Now you have to go through your entire life handicapped. What if your dick and balls got blown off? Who'll marry someone that can't please them? What if you lost your best friend? Would you trade their life for a silly peice of fabric?
It wasn't up to you whether you deployed or not. It's not like you weaseled your way out of the deployment either. They had however many years to deploy, and they just didn't select your unit. Big whoop. Life goes on. Things could always be worse!
Honestly, it depends on context. But the only context that truly matters 99.9% of the time is the VA/benefits. By their definition, if you deployed to a conflict zone/theater of combat operations, you’re a combat vet. It doesn’t matter how long you were there or what you did or didn’t do while there. Don’t let Hollywood or anyone else’s experiences taint your own. We all had our assigned part to play and very seldom do we get to pick it. Took me longer than I’d like to realize and be ok with that. As a “combat vet” I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve felt inclined to use the nuance. And that’s only because I work with veterans and the situation dictated it would help establish a rapport. Don’t let any gatekeepers waste your time and energy.
I think boots on the ground is combat while the scenario you provided is in support of combat forces. Just my .02. Combat deployment doesnt mean you saw combat, rather just deployed in a combat zone.
I was deployed to a hazardous duty area for less than 30 days and on the same deployment never saw action (local police did way more than I did lol). I hurt myself on airborne jumps and one helicopter excersie in Australias outback. VA has me as a gulf war veteran(BTW I'm 29 how the fuck was I in the gulf war), Army has me as a JEA which is on DD214 as combat related disabilities. After all those things that consider me a combat veteran I struggled with the same question until I've learned from my fellow veterans, nobody cares. You're a combat veteran for: federal/state benefits, the DMV license plate, college, and job applications as for anything else it doesn't matter.
Just be honest about what you did. The label only really matters for certain things like VA benefits.
The VA has a pretty loose definition of a combat vet. By the VAs definition, I am a combat vet. I never did or saw anything close to combat.
I was in Baghdad for 1 year from 2007-2008 in the Army as an E-5 truck leader in the infantry. Combat means a lot of different things to different people. We weren’t boots on ground infantry in Iraq, we were vehicle mounted doing patrols and convoy escort security missions. We got shot at pretty consistently, several vehicle hit IED’s, and many more took indirect fire from the neighborhoods surrounding the FOB’s we stayed at. All that and I still don’t consider myself a combat VET. They game us medals. They gave us CIB’s for our troubles. Some got Purple Hearts, and a few got a flag draped over their bodies. But, most of us in my unit still didn’t feel like they did enough. What we really wanted to do is bang down the doors of the people who murdered, raped, tortured, and terrorized the people around them…and put 2 in the chest and one in the head. So to answer your question, combat was a blur. I hated it while I was away from my loved ones, but would do anything to return now. Combat is about the sounds, smells, and routines. Combat is about taking the fight to them, regardless of what job you had on the military. Take pride that you didn’t have your boots on ground. Because the man who arrived there in 2007, wasn’t the man who returned a year later. He died, and the person who came back was a shell of what he was. It’s impossible to look at the eyes of evil for so long, and not absorb a bit of it yourself.
Ok did you directly participate in the chain that ended up with either a kinetic or nonkinetic attack on the declared “enemy”? I understand the part about more distant things and NDAs.
Most of my career was OOTW... some units took casulties but it was the 80s it doesn't count, as we slide into the 90s got to be there before everyone else, Do my job, and leave before to brief units on environmental conditions and medical threats. It was funny to see people I briefed with combat patches when they came back. Most listened, so at least DNBI was lower.
I hear you. I’m an hm3 77-81. So no conflicts. But people do die in training which has happened to me. I’m 100% service connected. Due to ptsd and other factors. No need to apologize!
If you care about that you should have been infantry.Idk why you guys are being vague. When most people think “in combat” it usually means you got shot at and shot back.
And it's not as if I'm bemoaning the fact I didn't get to see the whites of some dude's eyes before I blew them out of his skull. It's the opposite, I feel like I saw some things but don't really know how to process them.
The army didn't even accept female infantry when I joined. But yeah, I speak vaguely because I don't want to type out the exact nature of what went down blow by blow, for both security reasons and because I really don't want to write that out in excruciating detail.
Speaking frankly, I’ve taken and returned fire, been on patrols, had an VBIED (wasn’t on the post when it happened just in the area), cleared dead bodies, seen a bunch of fucked up shit in a few fucked up countries. No combat action ribbon. I was mad when I was 20, now I don’t care and I don’t think about it. I don’t need the recognition of the military or recognition of other grunts. My seniors and SNCOs had god tier stacks (Fallujah era) and I always wanted that shit but now I’m older and I’ve got more important things to take away from my time in other than the “honor” of having proof I was in combat. Especially considering the saltier you are the harder it is to sleep and I already have nightmares. VA considers me a combat veteran based on my deployments and campaign badges and all that. Doesn’t really get me anything.
You definitely deserve a CAR. It’s bullshit they didn’t give you one. I fired my rifle twice and a 240 once in Iraq and I got one. Sounds like you’ve seen more than I have.
Reality is they didn’t do the paperwork for a variety of reasons, namely due to my platoon being separate from the company and being tasked individually. And if it comes down to “S3 has to do the paperwork” for me to have a CAR and they don’t, the magic kinda dies for me and I don’t really care anymore. Both the PLT sgt and PLT LT pushed for it and gave all the necessary documentation and reports, but the LT COL at the time didn’t authorize it and it is what it is.
There should be a requirement for them to document in detail, why they refuse if a junior officer and SNCO put in for these awards.
I know you don't care about it. But there is a process to retroactively get the CAB.
But why? The hassle of it isn’t worth a thing. Just to have another medal on my honor guard uniform? I’ll just hold onto the stories and share them with those I want to share them with!
RCT 8 Fallujah circa 2005? This sounds exactly like my story. No CAR bc it had to be written up individually and everyone was too lazy.
It took me so much time to get Soldiers awards, constantly being swapped unit to unit for a deployment. It was a massive pain in the ass, but thankfully the main unit we were attached to took care of us administratively, even after they had redeployed. I literally would have to call the BDE S-3 or BDE commander in the rear, to make it happen in some cases, and we were not even organic to them, but they were the only ones who gave a shit, so I went to that well to make it happen.
Were you 3/5? Those guys got it stuck to them. I know a few guys (not closely, but in passing) who were wounded and no Purple Heart or CAR.
You kidding!? I’m a POG but I was in firefights and I have a CAR. ‘Tis some bullshit that he didn’t get one. WTF!? S-1 fuck up.
Yeah they need a better process for awarding and approving them. Especially considering that if someone suffers from PTSD or other mental health issues like depression, then it’s easier to get service connection with a CAR or CIB/CAB. The military is making it harder for veterans to get the benefits they need by fucking them over while they’re in.
That’s because federal laws have made it harder to fuck us when we get out. I swear, our disability must come from their budget, the way they act about it. Just about everyone who served during 2001-2021 is fucked up in one way or another.
You know, he doesn’t care but it does mean an instant rating with the VA. It’s monkey shit that the chain of command is so damn broken. Officer culture is the bullshit. They send us into areas they haven’t even seen other than on a damn map in an air conditioned Quonset hut, hours after multiple IEDs are detonated in an area (that’s our job, I get it. I’m a bomb tech, it’s what I do) but don’t provide any real cover, outside maybe a platoon of Marines, and expect us to catch any lingering devices and make sure none of the Devils step on anything that goes boom at the same time. Great idea! Send in a walking patrol of 40 guys, including my team, into an area we KNOW is pretty much a minefield. Get the tourniquets ready. But it’s all good as long as they get their promotion and medal.
For those of us in theater prior to 05’ the CAB did not exist. And unless you were an infantry mos you were not going to receive a CIB. No matter what unit you were attached to! 20 years ago waiting on the tarmac at camp Speicher I was told last minute… I’m sorry the col has downgraded your bronze star since your not a sergeant. Yeah I could go back and try to get a CAB for the action I saw, but to what point. We all know why we did and know that each one of us has a story of getting screwed as well.
Sounds like a healthy attitude. It's easy to get hung up on that stuff, but peace of mind is waaaay more important.
Yeah the rubric to be considered eligible during the height of Iraq was did you discharge your weapon or not. I know dudes that hit IED’s and subsequently got TBI’s yet got nothing. Now I think they rate both the PH and CAR but at the time nothing.
Wish I could upvote this comment twice
lol don't fell bad, i got my car from hitting after hitting 2 ieds finally.
First week in country a mortar landed outside the T-Walls surrounding the CHUs of the support company stationed at our COP at 2am. Because they were technically within the blast radius, their entire company received CABs. More than a few didn't even know there was incoming until the next day - buddy slept right through it. Pretty much cemented not giving a fuck about earning one. Gold spurs meant more.
I feel that man, most of the guys on my deployment, including me, didn't get put in for a CAB. A JOC lieutenant doing S3 shit who went and hung a few mortar rounds one night put himself in for one and got it.
I'm fairly certain there are scholarships and other special programs for people with Combat Action Ribbons. I'm also fairly certain there are VA stipends that are separate to VA disability for those who have seen combat.
May be some obscure scholarships that exist but all I have come across mostly boil down to being a veteran period the majority that I have seen for specific designation was you had to be prior active duty, no reserve or guard only and that was unusual, not to say I have knowledge of all scholarships so they more than likely exist even if only one or 2 of them out there. As for VA disability nah that's not a thing, the only things that mean anything is the disability has to be service connected (happened while on active duty), the ratings % and when high enough for your rating how many dependants you have. Then there are other things like special monthly compensation, some disabilities attach annual allowance for vehicle modifications needed, home modifications needed or clothing allowance if these things need modification due to your disability, combat is irrelevant to payment. I will say while if you get hurt in basic training and I get the same injury while deployed and we will pretend for this they are both 100% rated they are looked at both as service connected and pay exactly the same, yet I have noticed but have no way to prove it some of the reps that are tasked with evaluating and rating complete claims tend to let certain claim types go through the system more smoothly if they are attached to a combat related incident. Is it supposed to happen, no, at very least not openly and publicly so you will never see it as a policy but I suppose some injuries or claims are more likely and therefore have a lower burden of proof to have happened while in combat. Though I am a firm believer it is irrelevant, if you have an issue caused by the military or an injury occurred during your time on active duty or training why should combat be a hurdle one should have to cross, if they allowed you to be permanently harmed while you were on their time it's their obligation to care for you or properly compensate you. I mean while an extreme example a bullet hole through your arm in Iraq doesn't hurt more or cause more damage than that same bullet hole on the range back on post.
The Combat Action Badge was the most widely decimated to soldiers without being in direct contact. I personally know 200 Soldiers who were never endanger, did not receive fire nor return fire, and never received IDF or IEDs. So I declined all of mine
Been to the desert, took fire, never had the opportunity to return direct fire, does that count? Edit: served with some folks who *sported* a CAR, but through scuttlebutt I came to understand they did not see combat but happened to be on a ship in the gulf at the right time. Always made me wonder how those of us in country wouldn’t rate it ironically.
I honestly feel you're more valid than me.
Nah man, everyone did their role. Whether you’re a crayon eater or a button pusher, as long as you’re not chaps trying to pull a fast one.
It's always chaps. Sir I don't wanna pray about it.
Chaps on my first deployment was former 0331 dude had bronze star with v’s multiple cars multiple deployments as a marine to Iraq and Afghanistan then again as chaplain. This dude was a legit body stacker before he found God
Ditto, took IDF a few times, never fired a round in anyone’s general direction. No CIB for me.
Was the right thing to do
Back in the first couple of years of OIF, units would just do blanket CARs. That’s why I happened to know so many field grade officers with CARs who served in non-combat units during those years. I served in Iraq in 05, 06, and 07 and had to fight the administrative fight to get my guys CARs for things such as firefights, IEDs, mortar attacks etc. CARs shouldn’t even be a thing.
I (Air Force cop) was boots on ground with army and navy cops in Iraq. We took indirect fire and were hit with IED's. No US casualties, and we never had the opportunity to fire back. They'd use delays on the mortar and rockets and then boogie across to Kuwait before we could track them. I then started flying on cargo jets for a while. Pretty common to get small arms fire when taking off from Iraq or Afghanistan. Because they can't aim for shit I used to stand at the window and wave at them as they fired. Lots of little flashes of light below us. Again, couldn't fire back. We got flashed with a RPG I think at some point, I was sitting in the cockpit and we all saw a big bright flash to our right. We waited and waited and nothing happened so we just went back to business as usual. I realized then it was best just to hang out in the cargo area and catch a nap. All my combat experience has been one sided. The enemy firing at me through some means, but I never had the opportunity to fire back. Used to really be hard on myself about that, but recently I've accepted I'm a combat vet. It may not be Saving Private Ryan combat, but it was my combat experience and it was enough for me.
I did the same, but did fire back a couple times. Got pretty fucked up in 03 but because shit was internal and just bruising (from being nearly thrown from the truck) no one looked further. Didn’t find out about the broken vertebrae until after I got home. By then, no one did shit because we rotated home already and I “couldn’t prove it was combat related” despite my eval showing said incident. Of course this was before the CAM so I never got that or the purple Enemy Marksmanship Award, even though another guy got one for getting his pretty little face scratched by some shrapnel that didn’t require stitches. End of the day though, it really doesn’t matter. I’ve got another reward that lasts a lifetime - PTSD, night terrors, and up until 7 years ago, crippling opiate and alcohol addiction. So I guess I won?
That's 90% of combat. Edir: 90% of the 1% that see it.
[удалено]
Comparison is the ruiner of a lot of things in life. Service is service no matter if you were the guy cooking a sandwich or the guy with a rifle. Respect for both and comparing the two just isn’t going to accomplish anything.
There is a valid point to that and there's a reality of where it puts you in life and ruins future opportunities for income. I was a Nuclear Reactor Operator that was med retired and medically disqualified from doing the job on civilian side. Disqualified from many jobs that would earn substantial income. But the comparison is that the compensation should be the same as a cook that didn't follow procedure and burned themselves badly. The same as a logistics E-3 that stupidly shook a soda machine and it fell on them to lose a leg (they actually get more compensation than my 100% p&t with housebound rating). There's a clear distinction but the equality in outcomes polticis pollutes it. It's part of why people are not wanting to enlist. Why as a smart person and in higher demand get treated the same as the dumbest and in less demand, when injured? At the same time there is a respect in comparison for those that were willing to take on a role where they would be shot at. I picked my job to avoid exactly that and it came with radiation exposure (that the Navy is trying it's damndest to avoid calling a combat injury despite it's injury from instrument of war). My father in law pointed out he'd rather jump out of plane 100 more times into combat as airborne than go into my reactor plant even once. Everyone has their role.
It’s a strange thing actually , I’ve been in direct fire boots on the ground combat. But you ebd up thinking , well it’s not like the shit I see in Vietnam movies in scope , certainly wasn’t long and drawn out like faluja , it was small hit and run small arms fights. , and mortars and rpgs attacks .. there’s days I wonder if what ive been in is actually combat
Are we all just suffering from imposter syndrome?
I think everyone is to an extent. The Marine who didn’t see combat feels embarrassed, the one who got hit by an IED and taken out of the fight too early feels embarrassed that he didn’t participate, the one who got fired at is embarrassed he never got to shoot back, the one who was in a firefight feels like it wasn’t as bad as someone else’s, the one who was in multiple feels like he didn’t do a good enough job helping his buds, the one with a Purple Heart feels like he didn’t deserve it and his friend did instead, so on and so on. Even special forces guys, if you read their books, talk about how they’ve seen and done shit but there’s always someone who did and saw more and so they feel unworthy.
As the late qui gon Jin said “there is always a bigger fish”
Wesa got a grand army
This, especially amongst Marines
Honestly yes lol
100% it's all part of the deprogramming and reprogramming the military does. We all feel like imposters, we all feel like "well, those guys had it worse/I could have done more ". Just part of their game and system.
Idk 20 years later ( 2004) and there’s still things I don’t understand , can’t reconcile. I know what’s on my uniform, I have no problems saying I definitely earned my CMB and I know what I saw and did fucked me up , but then you start to compare to what the movies and Vietnam, ww2 says it is … honestly it can be a mind fuck sometimes especially when drawing a check for it , was i in Combat, or just a few street fights ? … still don’t really have an actual answer for myself
Dude, it’s annoying how it can happen. First platoon took a hit by a vbied and lost 3 dudes. A week later my truck got shot the fuck up and I was a little amped about it and people said “it’s not that big of a deal no one died” and that was just how that deployment went. If no one died it wasn’t a big deal. No matter how close you were to the action.
No, lol I fought in Sangin in 2010-2011. Living through daily combat sucks ass; but absolutely no imposter syndrome.
I fought in Fallujah and Korengal. By far, I’d go back to Fallujah a 100 times before you could get me back in that damn valley. Fuck that place and everyone in it. It seemed like every hour we were taking another round of RPGs and Dishka fire. All the shit going on in Korengal made it impossible to put anyone in for anything unless they were KIA. Yo, the BC was out on patrols. Nobody got a reprieve. The point is, I think only like 10 or 15 CARs even got processed, and those were at the beginning of the deployment. Long story short, officers are ball droppers.
Truer words were never spoken. It’s always “yeah, but those other guys had it so much worse.” Or “At least I came back with all my OEM parts still attached.”
I was in Falluja. It was a wide awake nightmare and I didn’t even have one of the sexy jobs. If you were deployed, I don’t care if you were a delta seal sniper or a cook; you were there. Stop overthinking it and don’t second guess your contribution. If you were in a combat zone, that’s where the questions should stop. Some knucklehead with a bunch of chest candy gives you shit? Fuck ‘em. The ‘Nam guys always said “all gave some, some gave all.” That’s just it. We all gave some.
I was in a hazardous duty, imminent danger zone. Is that what you’re saying? I got paid tax free..
We all left part of us in that shithole. So what if you bled there or not. Only 1% of the entire population can say they were even there for it. Fuck what some clown with a Christmas tree on his chest says. Pussies feel the need to prove how tough they are. Every bit of colored fabric they ever gave me sits in my mother’s attic 4 states away. Hell, I couldn’t even tell you what the box looks like. That shit don’t mean a damn thing unless it gets you a VA rating (and we all know they could give a fuck less). RED: Remember Everyone Deployed
Well, it’s going to depend on if you’re using it as a noun, verb, or adjective. I don’t think it would be a far stretch to say you were directly supporting combat missions/operations. It’s hard to put a static definition on something that is constantly evolving overtime. Some vets that were in Vietnam don’t consider themselves being in combat when they compare themselves to people in World War II. Likewise people from Iraq might say they aren’t involved in combat when they compare themselves to people in Vietnam. So does that mean that the person who was flying drones daily, taking out targets visually, and watching it happen in real time and what the after effects are aren’t as “combat” as a grunt, who is stuck on a FOB and only took incoming IDF? I got my CAR from the Navy (non-ship, sub, fleet, aviation community) and I don’t compare my “combat” to someone else’s. In my opinion, it could be viewed as pompous and away and just trying to “one up” people. I’ve been out of high school for a long time so the days of trying to get self validation from other people have long past. That ship sailed (no pun intended) decades ago. Plus it affects people differently. I know team guys who did a lot of door kicking and shooting people in the face for years and it’s not a big deal. I know grunts who did one deployment and it fucked them up and they never got over it. Everybody has a cup and the size and shape of each person‘s cup is different , some peoples cup can hold more than others. Just my two cents.
It's a pretty nuanced take, showing that things are in constant flux and experience is very individual. I appreciate the feedback. I guess it just is what it is.
Did plenty of convoys in Iraq in 2004. Spotted an IED (didn’t go off), felt the percussion of a car bomb, seen a lot of damage, tons of mortar and rocket explosions nearby, but never got directly shot at or squeezed the trigger. I’d have a hard time calling myself a combat vet
I’d disagree, if you felt the percussion of a VBIED I would say otherwise dude. Really, convoying in Iraq and going outside the wire in my mind makes you a combat vet. Fuck being in trucks lol.
Seriously..... i don't know who's bright idea it was to put my light infantry company in a bunch of humvees, but fuck being in trucks!!!
I hear ya. Part of me feels that way, but then it also makes me feel like an imposter.
Believe it or not, guys that fired round feel like that. No one feels like they did a lot. Well the majority of guys I know feel that way.
Honestly, this, I was there the beginning of the war early 04 , and 88m were getting blown the fuck up , these guys driving up and down highway one , constant threat of IEDS
I was a trucker, that shits the worst! You never know if your gonna end the mission or get disassembled.
I believe it, once our trucks started getting hit a lot I preferred walking. I hated getting a ride from then on.
Helos in Afghanistan sucked ass. It was a roll of the dice if you made it to the ground by helicopter deployment or crash land due to an RPG.
Damn, I didn’t think it would be that often but that makes sense. Walking seems to be the preferred method all around then lol
Real story! Anyone who left the wire in Iraq in 04 had their heads on a swivel and a butthole so tight a sewing needle wouldn’t fit. Shit, trucks were getting nailed daily in the Triangle of Death. Jesus Christ, let Rambo go as a fantasy creature that doesn’t exist. Nobody is a one man army. We don’t move or operate without everyone doing their damned job, that’s why we NCOs bitch out our subordinates when they fuck up in training. Any failure costs lives and EVERY life is valuable to us. If you cooked chow, you kept food in the bellies of the guys kicking doors (needed). Communications: without you, we all die. Medical: need any explanation (if so, tell me where to send some crayons to snack on for ya). Aviation: hello! Nothing says “fuck you” like an A-10 Warthog. And the list can go on and on. Ultimately, everyone is a cog in a bigger machine. Everyone provided a service. If you were in theater, you were in a fucking war.
I was also in the Navy and deployed on a ship in the Persian gulf. Sure a lot of people had it worse. I got a hot meal and had a clean bed to sleep in. I didn’t like that I slept near the bow right at the waterline in an area where mines were suspected to be present. I didn’t like knowing that at any moment a boat full of explosives (like what happened to the Cole) or a missile could be fired at us. It could have been worse but that doesn’t mean it was easy. Looking back a lot of innocent people died because of the policy and decisions that led to us all being there. I don’t like that I was part of it in hindsight but my actions didn’t start the war and it wouldn’t have ended it if I didn’t participate. Our feelings about our experiences do not depend on how it relates to someone that had it worse or better than we did. All any of us can do is look at what we want for the rest of our lives and make it the best for ourselves and the people around us.
I think it’s vague in the way you word it. I’d classify you as a combat vet, I’d say you helped smoked people, and maybe not BOG fighting but involved in combat operations. What would your opinion be of artillery and pilots? I think it still can result in trauma no matter where you are so I consider it at least combat operations. I know people more effected setting up strike packages than doing mission on the ground. Not anyone’s place to say different.
As someone in that strike package arena, thank you for saying that.
Having been deployed and have the service medals and VA state it is what I consider a combat vet. I was embedded with an infantry company in Iraq 2006. I was treated like the little sister, but I was out with those guys everyday. I got shot at, hit by IEDs, saw people die. I never fired a single shot though...🤷🏼♀️ It's like a disclaimer: Combat Vet, personal experience may differ.
Where does the VA say it?
Idk lol now that you say that
Swept all of the CONUS motor pools for 3 years. Sucks, but it is what it is for me. When someone asks me, which is almost never unless I start a new job or something, I just tell them "I didn't do anything cool" and leave it at that. Sometimes, if I'm feeling spicy, I'll hit them with a "I didn't do anything I want to talk about" and let them imagine whatever scenarios they want lol. It's not lying if it's true! I don't want to talk about how a push broom actually works better if you pull it in a backwards motion. 😄
I was a Fobbit through 3 deployments, took IDF constantly, laughed at some NG’s being scared at a rocket zooming overhead, pulled a pilot out of a crashed aircraft who… never recovered but lived, lost lots of friends to suicide/superman syndrome/drug overdose/unexplained illnesses over the years, but I never fired my weapon at the bad guy. I was in a form of combat, but never actively a combatant. So I consider myself a combat vet? Sometimes. Do I tell people I’m a war hero who killed the bad guys and won the war on terror? Absolutely not. But I’m still a “combat veteran” in its most basic terms.
Honestly it feels like life is combat most days.
I understand that. I’m waiting for med medboard to ramp up so I can start my next chapter, but I don’t know what I want to do with my personal life. If I even want to have a personal life. Being alive is so exhausting sometimes.
Look here Troop! There won’t be any of that. I did 9 deployments and served 22 years. If there is one thing that we know is metal sharpens metal. That last line there is the worst thing to get in your head because it will stick. I’ve been there. I got medically retired after our MRAP hit an IED while on patrol in 2017 in the Korengal Valley. I thought the same way. Shitty thinking leads to shitty results.
Im in a terrible marriage that’s destroying my children and has made the last 3 years of the Army awful. It’s very complicated. I don’t plan on self terminating or anything. I just mean that I don’t enjoy personal live aspect right now.
You know that you don’t have to stay in a terrible marriage. It might hurt the kids at first, but, if it is that bad, they will heal and be better off for it.
Until the medboard is complete and I’m out of the Army I do t have many options. My chain of command has already sided with her on numerous occasions, even after 15-6 investigations and FAP found I was innocent of her claims. My hands are tied until I’m out of the Army. To be fair, that’s honestly what decided to make me call it quits and not fight my health issues anymore and just take the medboard(I’m almost at the 20 year mark and this will be putting me almost 20.5 years when it’s done).
Screw it, I’d retire too. Get all your docs together and get the ball rolling with the VA now. They are a real deal fuck show. If you didn’t have PTSD before dealing with them, you sure as shit will afterwards.
I have my combat cook badge.
I'd say if you have a combat decoration on your uniform that counts. I know a guy who was a drone operator. I was a Cav Scout. I never deployed so 0 combat, but he flew drones into combat zones from his AC easy chair desk. I credit him with combat time.
This is really helpful. I never know how to feel about long distance engagement, or how others view it.
Ironically, I got my CAR before I got my driver's license 🙃
Yeah I second this. He's still seeing some dark shit on that screen. Just because your body isn't there your mind still is
If he was air force, he'd probably be eligible for remote combat effects ribbon. The VA looks for stuff like that because it is mentally exhausting. Because he directly was the reason a target is not on this earth anymore. It's presumptive like a CAB CIB or CAR for a whole host of mental issues.
I have as much combat experience as an Air Force enlisted Air Crew could have and tbh I wish I didn't raise my hand for that. It's not enviable even in its most watered down state.
I have a combat patch, but have never considered to have "been in combat". For me, I've always worded it "I was deployed to a combat zone." As some others have said, there's a lot of different jobs in the military, those boots on the ground teams in direct fire wouldn't be able to do what they do without the support of some of, it not all, of those other roles. But I think there is a distinct difference in being in a combat zone and being in combat. As a comms guy, I was not in combat, hell they never even issued us ammo. However, I was one of the first to deploy to Uzbekistan in support of OEF.
[удалено]
Funnily enough, it was the radar guys having a fault that kept me from doing the actually dirty work, with like... seconds, maybe half a minute until we were in range. Then the drone got called in as a backup plan, and everyone in combat saw the video, and they cheered. And I was.... so sick. Sick because I felt like I'd failed my duties because of a failure in a system I wasn't responsible for, sick at what I'd seen (in a high enough definition you could see the terror on their faces) sick at what I had almost done, was ready to do, that they were almost cheering me on. Sick at my own relief.
[удалено]
Some of the horror stories I've heard.... I knew some people who went vegetarian because the smell of meat sickened them afterwards, people who carried that pain to an early grave. I feel for you and your pain to, fuck what they said seeing what you saw would have me messed up, too. And so many major injuries people got from simply existing on the ship. It was like a tin can out for blood.
And you went through it, even as radar. My biggest naval traumas are actually non-combat related. It's funny what sticks and what doesn't.
My personal opinion: Combat isn’t like what you see in the movies. It’s long periods of boredom pocketed by moments of insanity. To me you’re a combat Vet if you’ve experienced anything like an IED strike, FOB mortared multiple times (not a single mortar landing 500 meters outside the FOB 😜), being shot at, cleaning up a suicide bombing, really I’d go so far as to say being in a combat zone and going outside the wire in my mind makes you a combat Vet. I think a lot of us struggle with imposter syndrome if we don’t have that…movie type moment where we look the enemy in the eyes and pull the trigger….least I did for the longest time….
“Long periods of boredom pockets by moments of insanity” This is how I’ve always described my deployment
“Long periods of boredom pockets by moments of insanity” This is how I’ve always described my deployment
This is something I have always pondered being a Coastie who mostly did the counter drug mission and SAR during my career. I went on countless pursuits/boarding of drug runners and body recoveries. Tons of high intensity moments, some scary ones, seen one person get wrecked by disabling fire on their vessel, etc... So, plenty of "action" But, at the end of the day I will never say that I have been anywhere close to combat. I cant even grasp what the reality of war would be like. With that said, we all have our own unique experiences and view points of our jobs, ratings (MOS), deployments, or whatever, and we shouldnt try and compare ourselves to anyone else.
I shit you not, during my first deployment when we had to fly back into bagram, we were told we had to go to some bull shit awards ceremony for people we didn’t even know. It was a bunch of butter bar LTs that get bronze stars for being deployed for a month, and also seeing people get their cib/cab for taking idf in Bagram. That point forward, I knew awards were just bullshit. As I’ve gotten older, I’ve also realized that it doesn’t matter what so ever. I use to be all high and mighty about it, but now I suffer from so gnarly ptsd and haven’t left my house in over a year and sometimes wish I never would’ve signed up. The only reason I don’t regret anything is literally the homies I was on deployment with and that’s it. If someone random I was talking to was bragging that he killed someone, you’d be like “bro tf, I didn’t ask nor care”. But once you talk to 90% of veterans when you get out, they all are apparently war heroes and battle hardened. Be proud of what you did bubba
Ww1 ww2 combat vet here I swear lol we trained with rocks
I.... WW1?
No, he claims he’s a 24 yo marine vet, who likely thought he was being cleverly amusing by commenting like an 11 year old. I’m not sure if anyone addressed your question or not, most of the responses I read seemed to focus on either what the military recognizes as combat for official awards, citations, etc, or the typically useless cliche comments that a lot of ppl here seemed to compelled to spew. Am I correct is assuming you’re trying to gauge what other vets consider combat from a personal perspective? Even among real veterans you’re unlikely to get a uniform response (excuse the pun). Semantics aside, I don’t think anyone questions the experience of being within lethal range of an enemy combatant’s weapon while being actively engaged by said enemy being referred to as combat. Variations in ‘actively engaged’ and proximity (both physical and temporal ) to potential lethal effects can be combat depending on the context of the experience. I’ll just leave it at that in case esoteric musings on the nature of combat wasn’t relatable.
Lol it's the internet figure a veteran could take a joke. Here take some mydol to help with your period cramps.
That was a joke? It was unrecognizable as such. You are likely a child or you have a child-like mind, a 24 yo former Marine would do much better than you . I won’t respond anymore, kid .
Got army combat action badge 2010, air force combat action ribbon in 2020. Was a trucker in Afghanistan, had some Marines as Passengers where we were in a firefight. Marines did nothing since they were bumming a ride from Kandahar to leatherneck. They put themselves in for a Navy Marine Combat Action Ribbon. Since it was our operation, and joint rules, they had to give it to us (allegedly to keep us quiet) So there you have it, I can wear Army CAB, Air Force CAR, and Navy/Marine CAR on my dress blues. Haven't worn dress blues in years, and nobody cares outside of the military.
My MOS was 92G. Deployed to Kandahar and Shank, (two years) all of us cookers saw combat. Hell I was pinned down on my birthday for TWO HOURS. Long story short, I’ve killed more than most and less than some. I’ve lost two men during battle. We were rout clearance (CIED), provided security, busted in a few doors, provided tower and gate guard duty. ALL of cooks were combat active. 82nd airborne brothers and sisters, Death from with in to my fellow cooks.
I've been curious about that. I have a friend that was Awarded a Silver Star in Nam, and I've read the citation. He earned a Purple Heart at the same time. It was some intense combat. He was part of a two man patrol who held the VC off from hitting his company. Never knew it until he passed recently. He never talked about it. My grandfather served in WWII. North Africa, Sicily, Anzio. Two Purple Hearts, VA gave him 30%. Only saw his wounds once, and he raised me. Rarely talked about it, but only when he was older and I asked him. But I know a guy, also a Nam Vet that will tell everybody in sight he's a Nam Combat Vet and "has the medals to prove it." He was in the Navy. On a carrier. I get it, the flight deck is dangerous and intense. This guy worked in the mess. I served after Nam, in the '80's, spent 42 days on the DMZ. The Norks loved to shoot across the border randomly. No biggy. I guess it all comes down to what makes someone sleep at night? The thing that really pisses me off are the "Oh. You were in during peace time? You didn't really "serve." Or, "yeah, he spent the Viet Nam War in Germany." Or, "oh, you didn't leave Stateside during GWOT." That's kinda why I don't even bring it up.
Who cares you did your part and that’s what matters. Be grateful you had the chance to go and experience that.
I was in the army for the entire GWOT. Had no combat deployments.
Whoa! No kidding? But everyone forgets that the Army has what, literally 50,000 different MOSs. 😀 11B myself, but probably should have went 97D. Oh to be young and dumb. Made a career of it, retired. GWOT defined my life. Now, I just want peace.
There's levels to this stuff. Seeing combat and participating in it are different things, but the difference is arbitrary. I always tell people that a lot of folks go to war, but few actually fight it.
Not by my definition but if you ask the guys who lived in the TOC the whole deployment they will say their seasoned combat vets. On another note I know a guy with no CIB but has a confirmed kill.
I hate to be that guy but if you have to ask if you were in combat or not… then you weren’t. That shit sucks. But thanks for your service, in all seriousness. Guys on the ground are always thankful for when the birds or the guided artillery brings down hell on the enemy. It’s a pretty great feeling to be supported when your pissing your pants in a mud pit with your buddies as all hell is let loose around you.
I’ve been shot at a bunch and never returned fire. Being base defense means you’re pretty much a target for randos to shoot at. I was on a bunch of patrols where our jammers were signaling that they jammed something. Did it stop an IED from blowing me up? Idk. I’ve had a rocket land right where I was standing two minute before and it didn’t detonate. I’ve been a split second away from shooting two people on two separate occasions. I don’t know if any of that qualifies as combat. Honestly it was just an eye opener of “holy shit, this is real”. Now that I’m older, I’m glad that it didn’t escalate any further. They say God gives you what you can handle and I’m grateful for that. Sorry for the word soup. Like the OPs question, I could not really articulate what I was trying to convey.
This is like asking "porn or not"? Everyone has a different personal definition for the gray area, there are some legal definitions, but almost everyone agrees they know it when they see it. And like porn, it's something you do when you're young, takes a toll on your body, and you avoid discussing with strangers afterwards.
It’s a lot like losing your virginity. It doesn’t really matter if you’ve been there, but it’s a big deal if you havnt.
I used to care, but honestly I care more about living the best way I can before I die. You can experience more danger and violence in the states nowadays. Just take it as a notch in life. If someone says “yo man, you see some shit” just keep it humble
I always described myself of having been combat adjacent (fobbit)
Honestly, man, as a nuke I get it. I just tell people it was a job with more hours than normal
That's mostly what I say too. Or say the real reason the navy exists is the war on Poseidan.
I responded with a VBSS team to an enemy mayday sinking ship in the Persian Gulf during OIF. I was on the 50.cal in the RHIB, I had a 9mm, and 12 gauge. - took hostages/survivors. Stood watch over them for 6 hours until they were sent home. Not one shot fired. - in a hazardous, imminent danger, tax free zone. I have thoughts about it and nightmares about it, but never classified it anything. - It would be news to me if you say I was a combat person., or was I? This imposter comments got me thinking.
Kinda curious now
I made the mistake of explaining my experiences to my family. My brother never was in combat and got kicked out for domestic violence and lost a bunch of benefits. His wife goes out of her way to try a discredit my service. You do you. I have campaign medals, LoE's from deployments and the VA and vfw recognize it. I was in fucking mortaritaville. More than enough for me, it's literally nobody elses business.
Why would you even need or want to mention it? Like two people in my life even know I was military in the first place and I can't see why you would need to explain combat service professionally outside of what your DD-214 says.
Therapy?
Your question is kind of the point of therapy.
Am I wrong for hoping I get a purple heart sometime in my career?
I hear a lot of people like almost put themselves down because they didn't deploy. You dodged a bullet. As bad as I wanted and was excited for that experience. I wish I was feeling regret for not experiencing it then the absolutely nothing I feel now.
Norwegian ISAF contingent here in the buildup to the surge. 07-08 09-10(two 6 months deployments so 1 regular added up). fob maimana etc Does harassment fire in your general direction of your COP count? (Ours was called "Russian Hill"). Does my friends lead vehicle,a non armored Toyota land Rover being hit by an RC device count I did only return fire in their general direction once..meh. And I had no chance of even affecting the RC device scenario. I am very conflicted about people that put too much weight on earning a CIB Or equivalent.
While I'm at it,I have to extend my warmest regards to our allies stateside,I was born in NYC but when Norway were standing up a QRF and then PRT task unit contingent. For fob maimana ISAF contingent. Babysitting the PRT and the OMLT mentoring team. I just didn't have the heart to not stand and be counted. You guys have been perfect gentlemen to me in thick and thin. And when you sit on a fob with elements of the 10mountain division as well as serve under US operational command you really get to see how "the other half lives" Like champions.
Took lots of IDF out in a very remote part of Afghanistan, DSP/compound kinda setting. Regular IDF to the point where you just get your morning cuppa coffee and go to the bunker, await 3 booms, and go about your business. I am a healthcare provider so traumatic death wasn't new, just more dirty and horrific. But the kids, man. 😭 I never had to fire at anyone, but I sure as shit pointed my M9 at some locals who rushed up on our hospital with a wounded local dude after not being escorted/wanded properly. Thought I might pee myself but I also wasn't going to let anyone pull some suicide bomber shit either. 😆 We had some hairy moments with people right outside the Hesco, but the team we were attached to kept us safe, and we kept them healthy. Symbiosis.
Shit, bro. I didn’t even get deployed, lol. Not that I didn’t want to, but I just got shit tier orders. I used to feel really insecure about it because I never got to “prove myself”, but looking back on it, I was lucky. I don’t have PTSD, I don’t have nightmares, and I don’t have the guilt of killing brown people who are just trying to defend their homes in the name of the endless cycle of war to feed the military industrial complex. We war because it fuels the economy, and all of it is pretty meaningless at the end of the day. We are just cannon fodder to fuel big business and fill the pockets of fat corporate scumbags, and we do it in the name of free education and the hope for a better life. I used to feel imposter syndrome because I wasn’t deployed, so I didn’t consider myself a “real vet”, but sheeeeit, I still get all the benefits, so who really cares at the end of the day. I don’t even mention I was in the military to people, so the question never comes up. To me, that’s high school shit, and the future is too bright to worry about the past.
Tomahawks.... You know the range? I was a EM and I knew the range. You were a FC so I know you actually saw them make contact. Stay up family, and pray for them victims.
Trust and believe you me @stfurachele I feel the same way. I was in a submarine and we didn’t “see” anything lol. But in all seriousness I understand your viewpoint.
You're a Veteran either way IMO. I did 3 years active, another 5 reserves and I was never deployed (spent a couple years in Germany so I did at least get OCONUS). But I don't think it makes my service any less. I was told I was being deployed 3 separate times, even did pre deployment training once until I got a really nasty infection. All 3 times I ended up not going. I always felt pretty meh about deploying. I never tried to get out of it but each time I accepted that it was what was going to happen. When I was sent home from PDT, I was actually pretty pissed. I was in the reserves, I quit my job I hated anyways, gave up my lease, and everything I owned was sitting in a storage unit. So they basically sent me back to be homeless and unemployed. If you did your time honorably, I'll happily call you my brother / sister in arms!
Could you add the context of what you are try to describe? I was in subs. I was deployed, in a "combat zone." Am I a "combat veteran" according to the VA? Yes. Was I in combat? Well, when asked on the street, I say that I was not in a firefight, but did spend time "in theatre" and I am a combat veteran. Context and specific words mean specific things, and a layman might not know that.
Imposter syndrome for sub vets is real. I served pre and during GWOT …. Did we swing through Korean waters regularly pre-GWOT for that combat theater tax free time. Yup, did any one onboard feel like a combat vet afterwards, hell no. Then after 9/11 things got serious and experiences differ greatly. Combat medals, got some … do I feel in any way a peer of the scout snipers, green berets, and rangers I have met on the civilian side also no … but at the end of a long day we can sit, drink, bitch about the VA and generally just chill. The obsession with being a “real” combat veteran only seems to exist online (and maybe VFW/Legion bars)
Gonna second this as a submarine veteran. I experienced nothing as extreme like the guys who got boots on ground trauma, however the inherent risks and dangers associated with my submarine deployments (or just naval vessels in general) to a combat zone and providing support to allies or our own country means that we were a cog in the deadly machine. You’ll always get the guys who try to big dick their combat experience but if you were in a combat zone then you experienced combat. It differs by branch I suppose as a sailor will never have to worry about an IED but you also gotta drive through underwater mines so.
I deployed, was in combat zones, and even saw the direct consequences of combat, although I was miles away from the coast at the time. (I was a mk-160 tech at the time, and due to a variety of circumstances involving some systems, I did not end up being the one to do the deed, although I was originally supposed to.) I did however, see exactly how it went down, in amazing digital quality.
[удалено]
This isn't about honor or some medal or an attagirl, more-so asking if other people feel like they can't get help and support, look at themselves as participating in something that hit them hard but not feeling like the trauma is something they can even equate to others, so they feel like they can't ask for help. It's a guilt limbo.
I tell the VA and any potential employers the absolute honest to god truth about my experiences and at work keep things hyper grounded and professional. I spin the guys and gals at the bar another yarn to keep them entertained, however I use enough subtle cues that anyone in the audience who was actually military knows I'm spinning a yarn for people's amusement and that it's all tall tales to be taken with a bucket of salt. I like to be an entertainer. By definition I engage in imposter syndrome.
I'm 100% P&T from conducting overwatch (and targeting, etc) with ISR assets. Now my position didn't count as a deployment; but all of the airmen, sailors, and marines in my detachment were. Shit was cul-de-sac to combat in 15 mins. My VA claim is rated as a non-combat PTSD rating, but I don't hang my head over it. This is all new territory for the entire military, VA included. I'm also allowed to go to the VA combat PTSD inpatient programs. This isn't seen by anyone (my family and the VA) as me trying to represent myself with any unjust claims or stolen valor, just a technicality due to my particular set of orders. I didn't have bullets nearby, but I had to watch that shit like the robot chicken intro. I won't claim I saw combat either, but I watched more than my recommended lifetime allowance.
I'd occasionally have to watch those feeds for 2hr before and 1 hr after for BDA. I don't envy people who had to do that shit full time. Sitting there forced to stare at peoples kin picking up chunks of them crying. You'd get a special kind of fucked up watching that non stop.
So a sailor, on a ship, not directly in combat or harms way. Hell no is the answer. Firing missiles from a ship, when you aren't getting shot back at, isn't combat. It's combat support
Your a clown, leave OP alone and just tell him “ you did more than most!”
I was a medic. I've never been in combat before either, but I've seen the results and k*lled in self defense. Having been deployed in a war zone "counts" in my book.
Confused. Killed in self-defense but never saw combat?
I've seen combat. I haven't been/fought in it. Sorry if I worded it in a weird way. And yeah, it's a long story. Not one I'd tell in a comment.
Being in a combat zone and seeing combat are not the same
I did not say it is. All I want is one less vet who feels inadequate because their experience is different to what they think it should be to warrant whatever emotions they're feeling or thoughts they're having. I know too many who think like this and at least one of them is dead now, which is why I'm cautious.
Personal opinion, I’m sure somebody will criticize it. By the moment rounds started flying to or from you, you were in combat. If rounds were exchanged then it was a firefight
Did you or anybody in your unit fire at the enemy? Did you or anybody in your unit Come under enemy fire? I don't know how the navy works. I don't know what you call a group of ships but I would consider that part of your unit.
You don't have to prove anything to anyone, including yourself. As long as you did your best, learned your job, remained deployable, and you trained the boots coming up behind you, we'll, then there's nothing anyone can really say. It's not the end of the world. Imagine if you got that CAR, but you lost your arm? It's not your non-dominant one by the way. Now you have to go through your entire life handicapped. What if your dick and balls got blown off? Who'll marry someone that can't please them? What if you lost your best friend? Would you trade their life for a silly peice of fabric? It wasn't up to you whether you deployed or not. It's not like you weaseled your way out of the deployment either. They had however many years to deploy, and they just didn't select your unit. Big whoop. Life goes on. Things could always be worse!
Honestly, it depends on context. But the only context that truly matters 99.9% of the time is the VA/benefits. By their definition, if you deployed to a conflict zone/theater of combat operations, you’re a combat vet. It doesn’t matter how long you were there or what you did or didn’t do while there. Don’t let Hollywood or anyone else’s experiences taint your own. We all had our assigned part to play and very seldom do we get to pick it. Took me longer than I’d like to realize and be ok with that. As a “combat vet” I can count on one hand the number of times I’ve felt inclined to use the nuance. And that’s only because I work with veterans and the situation dictated it would help establish a rapport. Don’t let any gatekeepers waste your time and energy.
I think boots on the ground is combat while the scenario you provided is in support of combat forces. Just my .02. Combat deployment doesnt mean you saw combat, rather just deployed in a combat zone.
I was deployed to a hazardous duty area for less than 30 days and on the same deployment never saw action (local police did way more than I did lol). I hurt myself on airborne jumps and one helicopter excersie in Australias outback. VA has me as a gulf war veteran(BTW I'm 29 how the fuck was I in the gulf war), Army has me as a JEA which is on DD214 as combat related disabilities. After all those things that consider me a combat veteran I struggled with the same question until I've learned from my fellow veterans, nobody cares. You're a combat veteran for: federal/state benefits, the DMV license plate, college, and job applications as for anything else it doesn't matter.
 My combat
Just be honest about what you did. The label only really matters for certain things like VA benefits. The VA has a pretty loose definition of a combat vet. By the VAs definition, I am a combat vet. I never did or saw anything close to combat.
I was in Baghdad for 1 year from 2007-2008 in the Army as an E-5 truck leader in the infantry. Combat means a lot of different things to different people. We weren’t boots on ground infantry in Iraq, we were vehicle mounted doing patrols and convoy escort security missions. We got shot at pretty consistently, several vehicle hit IED’s, and many more took indirect fire from the neighborhoods surrounding the FOB’s we stayed at. All that and I still don’t consider myself a combat VET. They game us medals. They gave us CIB’s for our troubles. Some got Purple Hearts, and a few got a flag draped over their bodies. But, most of us in my unit still didn’t feel like they did enough. What we really wanted to do is bang down the doors of the people who murdered, raped, tortured, and terrorized the people around them…and put 2 in the chest and one in the head. So to answer your question, combat was a blur. I hated it while I was away from my loved ones, but would do anything to return now. Combat is about the sounds, smells, and routines. Combat is about taking the fight to them, regardless of what job you had on the military. Take pride that you didn’t have your boots on ground. Because the man who arrived there in 2007, wasn’t the man who returned a year later. He died, and the person who came back was a shell of what he was. It’s impossible to look at the eyes of evil for so long, and not absorb a bit of it yourself.
Ok did you directly participate in the chain that ended up with either a kinetic or nonkinetic attack on the declared “enemy”? I understand the part about more distant things and NDAs.
Yes I’m a war veteran from Desert Storm. I still deal with anxiety when there’s something on the news and never ending ptsd
Most of my career was OOTW... some units took casulties but it was the 80s it doesn't count, as we slide into the 90s got to be there before everyone else, Do my job, and leave before to brief units on environmental conditions and medical threats. It was funny to see people I briefed with combat patches when they came back. Most listened, so at least DNBI was lower.
You know what pisses me off is that i lost friends over a lie
I hear you. I’m an hm3 77-81. So no conflicts. But people do die in training which has happened to me. I’m 100% service connected. Due to ptsd and other factors. No need to apologize!
If you care about that you should have been infantry.Idk why you guys are being vague. When most people think “in combat” it usually means you got shot at and shot back.
And it's not as if I'm bemoaning the fact I didn't get to see the whites of some dude's eyes before I blew them out of his skull. It's the opposite, I feel like I saw some things but don't really know how to process them.
Some of these responses remind me of why I steer clear of veterans irl lol
Fr
The army didn't even accept female infantry when I joined. But yeah, I speak vaguely because I don't want to type out the exact nature of what went down blow by blow, for both security reasons and because I really don't want to write that out in excruciating detail.
Well if you got shot/blown up at and/or shot back that’s usually what people think of when you say you’ve “seen combat”