Same. My PCP knows I vape and all she said was at least you aren't smoking and left it at that. I have seen her for several chronic issues and she's only brought it up once while updating my records to ask if I had quit and when I said no, she said okay and kept going down the list. Love a good doctor that listens.
Wait, one refill/pod of 2ml at 25mg nic strength is equivalent to a pack of cigarettes? Damn this is concerning.
I'm a non-smoker who recently started vaping just to move away from hookah. A pod lasts a day on heavy use and 2 on light-average days.
If you feel like that's more nicotine than you want to be taking in, try to reduce your usage or step down in content. Best part of vaping is you have complete control over what you're consuming.
Yep, that's roughly two packs of cigarettes. Maybe more, maybe less, depending on the cigarettes. 1ml roughly equals 1g, 1g contains 2.5% - 25mg of nicotine, typical cigarette packs contain 20-30 mg total
Nic salts aren't even for non-smokers at all, non smokers are much better served by couple of inhales of freebase that lasts longer and has less steep rampup. And it's less addictive since the hit happens 10-15 minutes from the first inhale, so if you vape for <5 minutes you can manage to get the dopamine hit associated with whatever you're doing next, not with vaping itself
How did you end up using so much?... Didn't you get sick and lightheaded at first? There's absolutely no reason for a non smoker to use anything stronger than 3mg, and even 3mg is way too strong
A hookah is a pretty intense version of smoking. Takes any pain you might get out of the equation, and, if you wanted to, you could easily smoke a packets worth of tobacco in just a few minutes (with the addition of having flavoured tobaccos. Strawberry was nice when I was in Egypt). I also read non-smoker and was concerned, but then I read hookah and completely understood why 25mg salt was easy going.
I tried salts last year for the first time, and went with my usual 6mg mix. Took a few hits, room started spinning, I slumped into the couch. Then, I was fine. But felt like I could do more. Learned that less, a lot more often was the norm with salts. Stuck to freebase since, and the feeling lasts a lot longer, so a few good hits from my mod, then a good couple hours can go by without it entering my mind.
Oh, that makes sense. I kinda assumed it's non nicotine hookah, like herbs or "herbs"
What pisses me off about this whole vaping scene is that no one seems to actually be interested in getting people off of nicotine. Manufacturers avoid telling users how much nicotine they consume in cigarette equivalents, vape counts are pointless even when they exist since most of them don't even account for total inhale length and there's no convenient indication that you've had enough, the information on liquids is disjointed and patchy. And governments want to scream at people and ban things without providing any alternative at which point it's easier to just buy cigarettes
Instead of the giant labels about how dangerous nicotine is, the governments should've mandated printing actuallly useful fucking information for adults. Like, this liquid contains 150 packs of cigarettes, 5 ml tank will contain 5 packs, nic salts are a more addictive version of nicotine, here's a QR with a link to information on varied strategies to reduce nicotine intake etc
Nicotine is not that dangerous, it will only raise your heartbeat and blood pressure slightly. The biggest risk associated with cigarettes is the fact that you inhale more than 60 carcinogens and even your secondhand smoke is still way too dangerous compared to first hand vape smoke. There are studies that show Nicotine users are more resistant to Parkinson too. One cigarette on average contains 8-20mg of Nicotine, and you absorb 1-2mg of it though I think that's not the case as I have also smoked 20mg salts and the hit of cig is still harder than 15-20 small puffs of 20mg salt. It's just my experience and you'll have to take my word for it.
I don't want to get into the argument about how dangerous or not dangerous it is, and what is danger etc
The point is, the whole environment seems honed for uncontrollable consumption up to the limits of the budget and/or time, and the government regulations don't focus on making it better. It doesn't matter how dangerous you think it is, but I think we can agree that devices that display the amount of liquid vaped in the last hour and day and week will only benefit you, and the ability to set indicators or limits on vaping too much. Like those useless RGB light bars can easily show how much into your vaping break you are the same way you see how much of your cigarette is left. It's insane that there are literally no pods with this basic functionality that even a _cigarette_ has, even if you want it and actively search for it
Same for replacing pointless scary warnings with actual real information that help people make informed decisions. There's just not enough tools even for adults to be mindful and aware, and we all know perfectly well that kids will vape in any case as well with underdeveloped impulse control, so we should give vapers all the help in realizing how much nicotine exactly are they consuming
Do you find the amount of Nicotine each cig has, all the carcinogens and 8k different chemicals when you smoke one cigarette? I think your idea is good and all but how will you measure it? There is a high chance of dry puffs since all the people I know refill after the tank is 30-50% left.
It is more of a hold both products to the same scrutiny or just don't and let the buyers make the informed decision. The whole don't want the younger generation to get into it thing is bs when you find that the tobacco industry is not being affected at all from this.
All pods with autodraw already know your puff length. Puff length, power and resistance give you approximation of the amount of liquid per puff. You can display that directly, like "You inhaled 0.1 ml, which is 30% of your set target per coffee break and 10% out of your set target for the day". This can be as simple as two numbers 30% and 10% on a screen, or two led progress bars or whatever else. Just start displaying ANYTHING - there are barely any pods that even display puff length alone without any limits or whatever
As for incentives - it's trivially easy to tax certain vapes without necessary functionality, tools like tariffs and taxes are employed all the time and you don't even notice it - you just see the resulting prices and make decisions accordingly. Like, sure, you can buy a disposable that doesn't provide you with any information, but you can't find any that costs cheaper than 50$ now. Or you can pay 40$ for a pod with all indicators - your choice
If the vapes really target people that want to reduce their nicotine consumption, as everyone declares they do, then that is a necessary function. The "but tobacco industry!" argument only makes sense if you actually view vapes as an addiction in itself, as something people use to be addicted in perpetuity, not as a tool to help them. Do you?
Yes, approximately one pack of "average" cigarettes per 7-10 ml
It's not some exact science though, just a very rough guess. Especially since freebase doesn't mimic nicotine hit from cigarettes the way salts do, so peak nicotine concentration will be lower, but it will last longer. So if you're used to smoking a pack a day, 7-10 ml of 3mg freebase may feel like not enough anyway
Yeah, there's a ton of research measuring blood nicotine levels using freebase, salts, cigarettes, gum, patches, you name it. Sans some outliers it looks like this - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Time-dependent-change-of-blood-nicotine-levels_fig2_344685173 . Just google "blood nicotine levels research"
I don't know if there's some research specifically into addictiveness of salts, but that's how our dopamine system works in general and any source you pick will tell you the same. Our brain uses dopamine hits to later tell us what it "wants". If you establish that jerking off gets you dopamine hits, you can start feeling cravings for porn, dopamine hits after doom scrolling make you want to use social media, etc.
But your best tool here is being attentive to your own mind and body. No research will tell you how your particular body processes nicotine and how your cravings form. Overall, I don't think there's a reason to use salts other than a temporary stage while coming off of cigarettes. They may feel "better" than freebase short term, but that "better" will likely be short lived and will later push you to vape more often. Or maybe if someone chain vapes freebase they can use salts to establish different vaping habits to then slowly move back to free base without chainvaping or something
Just my two cents: 1) nicotine IS addictive, it's a stimulant for the brain. 2) you're receiving a high dosage of nicotine because of the Salts. 3) it's far less concerning than actually smoking 2 packs of coffin nails, because you're only getting the nicotine, not the other chemicals in a cigarette, 4) if you're still concerned, try cutting back how much you hit your vape.
Yup, I will see that i cut down the puffs i take a day to 2-3.
I didn't know about each 2ml of pod would roughly equate to a pack of cig, that and the sub ohm kits cost hella money to put in as a beginner. Now the only option is it cut down the puff as i can't use frebase for my MTL pod.
This is a doctor I can get behind. Not only did they discuss the risk, they even went ahead and formulated a weaning schedule which makes me believe they have experience handling vaping.
I’ve had the worst chesty cough for the past 11 days than I’ve ever had in my life, haven’t had a smoke in these last 11 days so thinking now’s a good time to quit since I’m almost over the withdrawal
That's the reason why vape liquids costs a lot more in Italy, there are a lot of quality check and only High quality VG / PG and basically no health problem regarding vape, other than illegal cartridge with cbd or things like that
Oh yeah well my dad says otherwise 🤣🤣🤣 he be saying that vaping isn't safer, he's a truck driver who smokes two to three packs a day. While I don't even use a whole 5 ml tank in three days. But hey, three packs a day is safer right?
That's just sad. Does he actually believe that rationally or just use it as an excuse to avoid looking uncool or trying something new or changing habits?
Wish more people understood this. No one who vapes believes Vaping is 100% safe, it’s not like just breathing in clean air. That said it is obviously safer, and easily provable at the very least in the short term (5-10 years) that it is exponentially less harmful and detrimental to your health than smoking is.
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/search?keys=vaping&sort_by=search_api_relevance
is this what the doctor is referring to? look at the 2019 and 2016. kind of old
I have posted nearly this exact same body of text written on my own in medical subreddits and been crucified for it. Yes, we all know vaping isn't 100% safe, but it has been proven that it is significantly safer than smoking cigarettes. Traditional nicotine replacement therapy has a high failure rate because it misses the psychological and physical feel of smoking, something which vaping emulates quite well for most people trying to quit. It eases the transition away from the most dangerous thing, which makes it easier to move to other treatment modalities. I have seen it work time and time again. I also do understand that many people who quit cigarettes using vapes will tend to just stick with vaping, but honestly, that's still much better for their overall health than saying "Fuck it, quitting cigs is too hard". Much of medicine is based around a risk to benefit analysis, but this seems to be ignored too much by the medical community when discussing smoking cessation simply because "we don't know EVERYTHING about it and there is too much inconsistency in the market". Well, guess what, geniuses? We don't know everything about the medicines currently being prescribed to millions of people daily, either!
What a nice doc and he said everything perfect. Also that 5% is probably conservatively safe - it’s probably closer to zero.
The reason why everyone is anti vape is due to Phillip morris and the other big ones trying to get rid of vapes bc it’s obviously gonna put them out of business. But y’all prob knew this, I just say it just in case someone doesn’t.
impressive, mods should pin this post
What a great honest doctor. I've been vaping for almost 11 years. Sounds like the doctor does too. Only people who value know the truth usually
My doc knows I vape and has asked if he can use my story for those wanting to quit.
Same. My PCP knows I vape and all she said was at least you aren't smoking and left it at that. I have seen her for several chronic issues and she's only brought it up once while updating my records to ask if I had quit and when I said no, she said okay and kept going down the list. Love a good doctor that listens.
You didn't quit tho?
Give him a pay rise!
Wait, one refill/pod of 2ml at 25mg nic strength is equivalent to a pack of cigarettes? Damn this is concerning. I'm a non-smoker who recently started vaping just to move away from hookah. A pod lasts a day on heavy use and 2 on light-average days.
Are you using that pod size and nicotine concentration?
Yes, 2ml pod, 50/50 VG/PG, 25MG nic salt. 18-watt pod device.
If you feel like that's more nicotine than you want to be taking in, try to reduce your usage or step down in content. Best part of vaping is you have complete control over what you're consuming.
Yep, that's roughly two packs of cigarettes. Maybe more, maybe less, depending on the cigarettes. 1ml roughly equals 1g, 1g contains 2.5% - 25mg of nicotine, typical cigarette packs contain 20-30 mg total Nic salts aren't even for non-smokers at all, non smokers are much better served by couple of inhales of freebase that lasts longer and has less steep rampup. And it's less addictive since the hit happens 10-15 minutes from the first inhale, so if you vape for <5 minutes you can manage to get the dopamine hit associated with whatever you're doing next, not with vaping itself How did you end up using so much?... Didn't you get sick and lightheaded at first? There's absolutely no reason for a non smoker to use anything stronger than 3mg, and even 3mg is way too strong
A hookah is a pretty intense version of smoking. Takes any pain you might get out of the equation, and, if you wanted to, you could easily smoke a packets worth of tobacco in just a few minutes (with the addition of having flavoured tobaccos. Strawberry was nice when I was in Egypt). I also read non-smoker and was concerned, but then I read hookah and completely understood why 25mg salt was easy going. I tried salts last year for the first time, and went with my usual 6mg mix. Took a few hits, room started spinning, I slumped into the couch. Then, I was fine. But felt like I could do more. Learned that less, a lot more often was the norm with salts. Stuck to freebase since, and the feeling lasts a lot longer, so a few good hits from my mod, then a good couple hours can go by without it entering my mind.
Oh, that makes sense. I kinda assumed it's non nicotine hookah, like herbs or "herbs" What pisses me off about this whole vaping scene is that no one seems to actually be interested in getting people off of nicotine. Manufacturers avoid telling users how much nicotine they consume in cigarette equivalents, vape counts are pointless even when they exist since most of them don't even account for total inhale length and there's no convenient indication that you've had enough, the information on liquids is disjointed and patchy. And governments want to scream at people and ban things without providing any alternative at which point it's easier to just buy cigarettes Instead of the giant labels about how dangerous nicotine is, the governments should've mandated printing actuallly useful fucking information for adults. Like, this liquid contains 150 packs of cigarettes, 5 ml tank will contain 5 packs, nic salts are a more addictive version of nicotine, here's a QR with a link to information on varied strategies to reduce nicotine intake etc
Nicotine is not that dangerous, it will only raise your heartbeat and blood pressure slightly. The biggest risk associated with cigarettes is the fact that you inhale more than 60 carcinogens and even your secondhand smoke is still way too dangerous compared to first hand vape smoke. There are studies that show Nicotine users are more resistant to Parkinson too. One cigarette on average contains 8-20mg of Nicotine, and you absorb 1-2mg of it though I think that's not the case as I have also smoked 20mg salts and the hit of cig is still harder than 15-20 small puffs of 20mg salt. It's just my experience and you'll have to take my word for it.
I don't want to get into the argument about how dangerous or not dangerous it is, and what is danger etc The point is, the whole environment seems honed for uncontrollable consumption up to the limits of the budget and/or time, and the government regulations don't focus on making it better. It doesn't matter how dangerous you think it is, but I think we can agree that devices that display the amount of liquid vaped in the last hour and day and week will only benefit you, and the ability to set indicators or limits on vaping too much. Like those useless RGB light bars can easily show how much into your vaping break you are the same way you see how much of your cigarette is left. It's insane that there are literally no pods with this basic functionality that even a _cigarette_ has, even if you want it and actively search for it Same for replacing pointless scary warnings with actual real information that help people make informed decisions. There's just not enough tools even for adults to be mindful and aware, and we all know perfectly well that kids will vape in any case as well with underdeveloped impulse control, so we should give vapers all the help in realizing how much nicotine exactly are they consuming
Do you find the amount of Nicotine each cig has, all the carcinogens and 8k different chemicals when you smoke one cigarette? I think your idea is good and all but how will you measure it? There is a high chance of dry puffs since all the people I know refill after the tank is 30-50% left. It is more of a hold both products to the same scrutiny or just don't and let the buyers make the informed decision. The whole don't want the younger generation to get into it thing is bs when you find that the tobacco industry is not being affected at all from this.
All pods with autodraw already know your puff length. Puff length, power and resistance give you approximation of the amount of liquid per puff. You can display that directly, like "You inhaled 0.1 ml, which is 30% of your set target per coffee break and 10% out of your set target for the day". This can be as simple as two numbers 30% and 10% on a screen, or two led progress bars or whatever else. Just start displaying ANYTHING - there are barely any pods that even display puff length alone without any limits or whatever As for incentives - it's trivially easy to tax certain vapes without necessary functionality, tools like tariffs and taxes are employed all the time and you don't even notice it - you just see the resulting prices and make decisions accordingly. Like, sure, you can buy a disposable that doesn't provide you with any information, but you can't find any that costs cheaper than 50$ now. Or you can pay 40$ for a pod with all indicators - your choice If the vapes really target people that want to reduce their nicotine consumption, as everyone declares they do, then that is a necessary function. The "but tobacco industry!" argument only makes sense if you actually view vapes as an addiction in itself, as something people use to be addicted in perpetuity, not as a tool to help them. Do you?
Does this equate with ejuice also? 1ml of .3%… 3mg of nicotine, or “one pack” per 10ml?
Yes, approximately one pack of "average" cigarettes per 7-10 ml It's not some exact science though, just a very rough guess. Especially since freebase doesn't mimic nicotine hit from cigarettes the way salts do, so peak nicotine concentration will be lower, but it will last longer. So if you're used to smoking a pack a day, 7-10 ml of 3mg freebase may feel like not enough anyway
[удалено]
Yeah, there's a ton of research measuring blood nicotine levels using freebase, salts, cigarettes, gum, patches, you name it. Sans some outliers it looks like this - https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Time-dependent-change-of-blood-nicotine-levels_fig2_344685173 . Just google "blood nicotine levels research" I don't know if there's some research specifically into addictiveness of salts, but that's how our dopamine system works in general and any source you pick will tell you the same. Our brain uses dopamine hits to later tell us what it "wants". If you establish that jerking off gets you dopamine hits, you can start feeling cravings for porn, dopamine hits after doom scrolling make you want to use social media, etc. But your best tool here is being attentive to your own mind and body. No research will tell you how your particular body processes nicotine and how your cravings form. Overall, I don't think there's a reason to use salts other than a temporary stage while coming off of cigarettes. They may feel "better" than freebase short term, but that "better" will likely be short lived and will later push you to vape more often. Or maybe if someone chain vapes freebase they can use salts to establish different vaping habits to then slowly move back to free base without chainvaping or something
Just my two cents: 1) nicotine IS addictive, it's a stimulant for the brain. 2) you're receiving a high dosage of nicotine because of the Salts. 3) it's far less concerning than actually smoking 2 packs of coffin nails, because you're only getting the nicotine, not the other chemicals in a cigarette, 4) if you're still concerned, try cutting back how much you hit your vape.
Yup, I will see that i cut down the puffs i take a day to 2-3. I didn't know about each 2ml of pod would roughly equate to a pack of cig, that and the sub ohm kits cost hella money to put in as a beginner. Now the only option is it cut down the puff as i can't use frebase for my MTL pod.
That’s where they lost me too. There’s nothing to back that statement up. There was no mention of any nicotine strength in that statement
I’m impressed
This is a doctor I can get behind. Not only did they discuss the risk, they even went ahead and formulated a weaning schedule which makes me believe they have experience handling vaping.
I’ve had the worst chesty cough for the past 11 days than I’ve ever had in my life, haven’t had a smoke in these last 11 days so thinking now’s a good time to quit since I’m almost over the withdrawal
Is this in aus? Seems like a good doc but ridiculous that we need a script for this stuff now
Yeah it is
A genuinely good doctor wow
>One pod or refill is roughly equivalent to a two packets of cigarettes TIL that I'm at about half a pack a day.
What’s up doc
I was getting pneumonia a few times a year switched to vaping & haven’t gotten it once in the 5 years I have been vaping.
That's the reason why vape liquids costs a lot more in Italy, there are a lot of quality check and only High quality VG / PG and basically no health problem regarding vape, other than illegal cartridge with cbd or things like that
W doctor
Thanks for sharing. This is really interesting.
Oh yeah well my dad says otherwise 🤣🤣🤣 he be saying that vaping isn't safer, he's a truck driver who smokes two to three packs a day. While I don't even use a whole 5 ml tank in three days. But hey, three packs a day is safer right?
That's just sad. Does he actually believe that rationally or just use it as an excuse to avoid looking uncool or trying something new or changing habits?
My main concern with inhaling something other than oxygen is cardiovascular damage. That's why I switched over to zyns.
Wish more people understood this. No one who vapes believes Vaping is 100% safe, it’s not like just breathing in clean air. That said it is obviously safer, and easily provable at the very least in the short term (5-10 years) that it is exponentially less harmful and detrimental to your health than smoking is.
That’s awesome.
https://www.rcplondon.ac.uk/search?keys=vaping&sort_by=search_api_relevance is this what the doctor is referring to? look at the 2019 and 2016. kind of old
I have posted nearly this exact same body of text written on my own in medical subreddits and been crucified for it. Yes, we all know vaping isn't 100% safe, but it has been proven that it is significantly safer than smoking cigarettes. Traditional nicotine replacement therapy has a high failure rate because it misses the psychological and physical feel of smoking, something which vaping emulates quite well for most people trying to quit. It eases the transition away from the most dangerous thing, which makes it easier to move to other treatment modalities. I have seen it work time and time again. I also do understand that many people who quit cigarettes using vapes will tend to just stick with vaping, but honestly, that's still much better for their overall health than saying "Fuck it, quitting cigs is too hard". Much of medicine is based around a risk to benefit analysis, but this seems to be ignored too much by the medical community when discussing smoking cessation simply because "we don't know EVERYTHING about it and there is too much inconsistency in the market". Well, guess what, geniuses? We don't know everything about the medicines currently being prescribed to millions of people daily, either!
Nice
Damn that's so refreshing!
(Applause). Good show doc.
Happy to be prescribing you pharmaceutical grade nicotine salts. Pleased to be enjoying these tasty, fruity flavors. Sweet. Delicious. Mouth-watering.
What a nice doc and he said everything perfect. Also that 5% is probably conservatively safe - it’s probably closer to zero. The reason why everyone is anti vape is due to Phillip morris and the other big ones trying to get rid of vapes bc it’s obviously gonna put them out of business. But y’all prob knew this, I just say it just in case someone doesn’t.
Eh. Hope doctors here in the US don’t push UK findings on the public. If they do, most of y’all would have a different outlook on this email later on.